BONUS EPISODE: Kati Morton: Exploring Mental Health from Therapy to YouTube

In this episode of 'Why Not Me', hosted by Tony Mantor from Nashville, Tennessee, special guest Kati Morton—a licensed marriage and family therapist and renowned social media influence—shares her expertise on mental health.
Kati discusses her new book, 'Why Do I Keep Doing This?', exploring themes of control, people-pleasing, and perfectionism influenced by personal experiences and her extensive therapy background.
She reflects on her journey from starting out as a therapist in 2009 to becoming a trusted voice on YouTube with over 340,000 subscribers.
Kati underscores the value of communication, journaling, and the importance of therapy, offering practical advice for those struggling with various mental health issues.

Meet Kati Morton: Therapist and Author
Kati's New Book: Inspiration and Themes
Kati's Journey and Professional Insights
The Evolution of Therapy and Social Media
Practical Tips for Mental Health
Kati's Personal Growth and Reflections

The content on Why Not Me: Embracing Autism amd Mental Health Worldwide, including discussions on mental health, autism, and related topics, is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. 

The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of the podcast, its hosts, or affiliates.

Why Not Me is not a medical or mental health professional and does not endorse or verify the accuracy, efficacy, safety of any treatments, programs, or advice discussed.

Listeners should consult qualified healthcare professionals, such as licensed therapists, psychologists, or physicians, before making decisions about mental health or autism- related care.

Reliance on this podcast's contents is at the listener's own risk. 

Why Not Me is not liable for any outcomes, financial or otherwise, resulting from actions taken based on the information provided.

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intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild
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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Welcome to Why Not Me, Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide, hosted by Tony Mentor, broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories. Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears. These real life journeys inspire, connect, and remind you that you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness, unwavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health. Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the world one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me, Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide. Joining us today is Katie Morton, LMFT, a licensed marriage and family therapist with a master's in clinical psychology from Pepperdine University. For the past seven years, Katie has turned social media into a lifeline, breaking down mental health with clarity and compassion. Her YouTube channel, now with 340,000 strong and 30 million views deep, has become a trusted space where eating disorders, self-harm, and every shade of struggle are met with honesty, not judgment. You've seen her on HLN's Dr. Drew on Call, named a 2016 Shorty Award finalist and recognized as a streaming nominee. But Katie's real mission: building a global community that demands better care and dismantle the shame that keeps people silent. She's here to talk about that and her new book, Why Do I Keep Doing This? She has that and more. So before we dive into our episode, we'll be back with an uninterrupted show right after it word from our sponsors. Thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Oh, it's my pleasure. I understand you've written a book. Can you give us a little information and the inspiration for it?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

This book came about in a very different way from my others. It actually was inspired from the fact that my specialty as a therapist is eating disorder treatment. That's how my channel, my YouTube channel started. And I've wanted to write an eating disorder book. That's not what this is. I'll get to that. But it started with this idea that, like, oh, I really want to write. And the book was tentatively going to be called It's Not About the Effing Food. That's really what I wanted the book to be titled because people just misunderstand eating disorders. And in conversation with my literary agent JL, who I love, and my manager Linnea, I was telling them about this and they were like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we got in this conversation about like, oh my God, I do that too. And like trying to control people and like what happens, and yeah. And it was all just this great conversation about the things that we do that we get annoyed with ourselves for doing. Why do I compare? Why do I people please? And then there was a pause, and my agent JL was like, I think that's the book. I don't think it's about eating disorders. We can talk about them, but I think it's more about control. She's like, what we're talking about is control. And I was like, You're right. And she's like, think on it, get me some ideas, and why do I keep doing this? Was born.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Wow, that is such a great story. Now, for everyone that's listening, can you tell us a little bit more about the book itself? What's the heart of the story, the main theme you are exploring, and the spark that made you sit down and say, Oh, this story needs to be told.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Yes, this book is probably my most personal book. You're following me along as I talk about the patterns that we find in our life. So I start off talking about how our childhood kind of sets the tone, like the way that our parents interact with us and each other, teaches us what relationships look like, what love looks like. And I talk about the ways that I try to control things in my life, like we all do. And so I dig into things like people pleasing, how I try to control others, make them happy, so that I don't have to deal with the discomfort of an argument. I don't like those. Don't like conflict. Very conflict diverse over here. Yeah, I get that. And then I get into perfectionism, how I thought that if I did everything just right, then I could earn love or attention or support, like that it had to be perfect in order for me to get it. Then I I take you through my experience with like feeling like I'm I don't have a right to take up space, that I have to like shrink myself to make other people comfortable. And essentially the thread that weaves through the book is that it's all about my relationship with control and all the kind of whack-a-mole ways that it pops up. And unlike my other books, where it's much more prescriptive, where I'm like, here's the research, here's what we know, here's what we can do. This one is more like, hey, this is what I've learned. I've been in therapy. I am a therapist, but I've also been in therapy for a long time. Here's what I've learned in that time, and here's what I still don't know. Let's consider these things and see what we learn. And so it's less of a like, let me show you and more a like come along with me journey.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Where you're a therapist and been doing this for a while. Do you work with autistic people of those with serious mental illness, those with anxiety, ADHD, bipolar? Do you work with any that fit under that umbrella?

SPEAKER_00 5:14

In the book itself?

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Either or what you've written in the book or what you do as a therapist. Yes, both cases.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

I think because nothing happens in a vacuum, even though I specialized in the treatment of eating disorders, almost all of my patients who have an eating disorder have something else going on, whether it's anxiety, depression, have traumatic upbringing or a trauma in their background at some point. Yeah, even my YouTube channel started off just specifically about eating disorders, and then of course it branched into everything from, you know, bipolar disorder, OCD, anxiety, depression, postpartum depression, schizophrenia, you name it.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Yeah, that's a wide range for sure. Now, how long have you been doing this?

SPEAKER_00 5:52

I've been a therapist since 2009.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

I've been creating content online since 2011.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Looking back at the therapy that you have done, looking at all the content you've created on your YouTube and all of your social media, I want you to think back a little. What comes to mind of the most rewarding moment that you've encountered over the years from those experiences where you've helped people from their traumas and how they've overcome it?

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Oh, there's been quite a few. The one that sticks out to me the most was actually a letter I received. So I've always kept a P.O. box for people online to send me things. And I received a letter. This is I don't know, probably almost 10 years ago now, maybe, but it was from a mother, might make me get teary just talking about it, thanking me for saving her son's life because he was suicidal and he found um I have a couple of older videos and newer now, but this is the time. It was a an original video at the time, about like I think it's called suicide and honest discussion. And it's essentially like that, you know, we think things are hopeless and we feel helpless, but there's a lot that we can do. And don't let the depression, fog, and the darkness like snuff out your light, you know, and the that letter. I mean, it's I keep all this stuff. I'm not really a hoarder, but I am for sentimental stuff.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Yeah, that was probably the most like touching and most rewarding thing.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Well, you know, when you do something that helps someone and you can see a direct reflection of your help in how it changed them, it can and probably changes your life too. How did you see that change you in how you were doing moving forward?

SPEAKER_00 7:26

I think it just further illustrated the like the privilege of being, I mean, a therapist, but also a content creator, the ability to reach people.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Never ceases to amaze me, probably because I was born before the internet. Like I didn't grow up with internet or social media, and I got to watch it develop. And it's such a privilege to be able to create content, share an idea or share a thought, or share some of my education with somebody and affect them through the screen. You know, I mean, the way I was trained in school is obviously because there was no social media, it was very focused on the one-on-one, you know, and like you're in session and you're in your office, and it's just wild to me that I can reach people. Like some of my first community members were people in the UK and Germany, not even in the US and in California at the time where I was.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

It's yeah, I think it just is really it keeps me motivated, obviously. The reason I started the channel was just to help people that if someone was looking for something, they could find it. Uh back in 2011, you being on YouTube wasn't a business decision. You couldn't make money. That wasn't what it was about.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

It was like a just a hobby, passion project. And so, yeah, I mean, it definitely keeps me motivated in tough times. And when I'm tired and or when I'm, you know, wondering if it's really worth it all, I can reflect back on letters and comments and things like that and remember that having the privilege of being able to positively impact someone's life is just amazing.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

When you first started out, was you like everyone else? Conventional office, four walls, phone on the desk, and everyone coming to see you there.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yes. I I mean I worked many jobs, like most therapists will this will resonate with them that you work like three different jobs to earn your hours towards your licensure.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

And so I worked in the hospital, mainly helping people with schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, bipolar disorder, very much more like high needs, I would say. Then I worked in an eating disorder treatment center two nights a week, and then I had my private practice uh two days a week.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

What were some of the differences that you saw from your private practice? And then the other two jobs you were working, was there anything that just jumped out to you?

SPEAKER_00 9:25

The level of care needed is definitely the obvious one. Um for the eating disorder treatment center, we're seeing people who need 24-7 support. They would stay at the facility.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Um, and I think you know, it was it was nice to work with a team. I always love that part. I because then it's not all on me, like we're we're all around and we're sharing in the information, making sure that the patient is getting the support they need. I always love that. The hospital setting was very unique because it was a different, it's a different type of patient. I feel like there's a lot of people within this world that those of us who don't live in the mental health space may never see or notice. People with really debilitating mental illness and getting to see them get stabilized on medication and thrive. I still love, I still, that's so exciting for me. And so that treatment was just a little bit different. It was more about stabilization and getting resources. And then private practices, not to say I enjoy it most, they all have their perks, but it that's where I could really, I call it roll in the deep with people. I could really challenge them, I could really ask them intense questions, and we could really push for for better, for more, because we weren't so focused on the like safety factor. Like you're operating well enough, you are able to hold a job, able to go to school or whatever it is. And so we could really, you know, push the boundaries of of how we can grow and what we can challenge ourselves to do.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Okay, so you had all these things going on. When did you see the transition from everything you were doing to the social media world that you ultimately turned to?

SPEAKER_00 10:54

It was really slow. I'd like to say, oh, I had a viral hit and phoom, it was out of this world. That's really not how it worked. I started in 2011. I don't think I quit my full-time job till, I don't know, 2014.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

And I still had my private practice and I still worked part-time at the eating dessert treatment center. So I was still doing partial things. I just quit the hospital job, which had my health insurance, much to my mother's dismay. But I uh let that job go because I just couldn't keep up with the hours. And then I slowly just whittled down the other two. I left, you know, a few months later, left the other. Honestly, at the very end, this is just my personality, is that I had decided I was done with it, that I was moving into social, doing more social media because I really like speaking. I really like meeting people. Like I said, it's so cool to talk to so many people around the world. Like I never in my wildest dreams had thought that that could be a possibility. I had decided it was in March that I was gonna quit my job, not my private practice because that takes time, but quit the last bit of my job. And I told my husband, I think I'm gonna quit in June. And I lasted one more week. And I put in my two weeks' notice and off we went. And so it was it was kind of slow and steady, but I really wish I'd saved more before I did that. But it was time and I felt it was time, and it got really hard to keep everything going.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

When you're dealing with people one-on-one, face to face, then you're dealing with people one-on-one in a group situation, like you do in a hospital. What differences do you see dealing with people one-on-one on YouTube or those that might email you or Zoom? What differences do you see, if any, from all those different scenarios?

SPEAKER_00 12:29

I think there's a big difference, especially when it comes to in-person one-on-one.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

There is something special about in-person with somebody, the energy of the room. Especially as a therapist, it really helps me pick up on things that maybe you might be able to hide if we were doing a Zoom session.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Like, are you sitting on the edge of your seat? Are your feet fidgeting? I might notice the shake a little in your head, but um, so there's that piece I I've always liked the in-person when it comes to therapy. Now, moving into social media and you know, communicating with my community as a whole, it's very different. I almost see myself as like an adjunct. Like I'm just this add-on. Like a lot of my community members, especially on Patreon, which I use to help support myself, is they kind of ask me questions about their own therapy. They're like, hey, I saw my therapist and they said this. What does that mean? Or like, hey, I'm having this trouble. What could I ask? Or like, how could I move this forward? And so I kind of see myself as just like a little a piece of it, like like a more of a supportive role than maybe a primary role.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Yeah. With all the information that you have taken in, then add to that all the information that you have given out. What are some of the common things you tend to give out a lot, like tips on life? What are some of those that you wish everyone knew?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

The number one tip is well, there's two. I'll give you two, and I can give more, but there's two that come to mind right away.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

And the first is when in doubt, over-communicate. I don't mean over-explain yourself. I mean that if you're concerned about uh a relationship, you're concerned about how your boss interpreted something. I would always err on the side of sharing more and being honest. Communicate. If someone hurt your feelings, tell them. Don't make them guess. If something didn't go as planned, you know, let someone know, like, oh, I thought we were doing this. So often, instead of communicating about an upset or an expectation or anything, we stay silent and it ends up hurting us down the line. It can either like turn into resentment or it can turn into like internalized shame. Like something must be wrong with me. That's why this didn't work out. When in fact, if we'd communicated, we might have realized, oh, they didn't even notice and they're so sorry. And it, you know, the conflict could have been resolved. So when in doubt, overcommunicate.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

And then the second, anybody who's been following me for any amount of time will know I am a huge supporter of journaling. I think so often we we let things run in our head and we can turn molehills into mountains. We can shame ourselves, we can think about all the ways something could go wrong. And it can keep us up at night. Right. It can make us feel anxious, depressed, you name it. Putting it out on paper, journaling about it, gives us an opportunity not only to slow it down, but also to be able to reflect. I find, because I journal all the time. When I journal, I can see things more clearly. I'll even pose questions to myself, which might make me sound a little crazy, but I promise you it helps because one thing I know as a therapist is that we have all the information we need to fix any of our problems. We just need help getting to those, to that, to the meat. We need help finding those gems. And so journaling really helps with that because sometimes I'll be like, what am I really afraid of here? Or why is this making me so stressed? Oh, I'm afraid that someone's not gonna like me, or I'm afraid that uh, you know, maybe it's like about money and I'm I'm scared of not having enough, and that's really stressful for me. It helps me uncover kind of the reasons behind my behavior. And if I just let it live in my head and I didn't write it down, I might not be able to uncover that. I'd instead get caught in these thought cycles, you know, because there's this research study from years ago that 93% of the thoughts we've had, we've had before. So it's like we're just having these repeat thoughts over and over, sometimes with just a little flavor, different flavor to them. And so journaling really helps me clean that up.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Yeah. Now, when you do a journal, you write down all your thoughts. Like you said, it might come to you as a question or you might have other thoughts as well. I believe there is a difference in most people, not all. I think there's a difference between what people will write down on a paper that they want to tell someone, then in reality, they don't tell them at all. How do you help them get past that so that the communication still stays strong?

SPEAKER_00 16:37

A good question. In in general, there's a couple of ways to go about this. Number one, if you're in therapy, practice it with your therapist. The first time you say something that's difficult should not be in front of the person you're trying to communicate it with.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Because sometimes the words coming out of our mouth just like shock us, or they feel really harsh all of a sudden, or we're like, oh my God, is that what I meant? It can feel very overwhelming. So it's it's helpful to say it out loud to another person, ideally a therapist, but even a best friend, or at least in your car by yourself. You should say it out loud so you kind of get used to the language. And because if we're having a difficult time with someone, chances are we know them at least somewhat, but usually pretty well. Okay. We know kind of what they're gonna say in response. So I always encourage people, like, yes, you can journal about it. If this is a conversation that needs to be had, I encourage you to journal both parts. What do you think they'll say in response? How does that feel to you? Are you able to like stay with it? Or do you need to take a break? You know? And so through that practice, hopefully we can get so comfortable with it, it's almost like practicing a speech. You could say it in your sleep. You've said it so many times. I want you to almost feel that way before you go into what I would call a really emotionally charged conversation when things, when we're like, I'm conflict adverse, right? I told you I don't really like fights. And so if I'm going to tell my husband that something really hurt my feelings or I didn't really like how something went, I know that that for other people who aren't conflict adverse, they're like, that's no big deal. No, I have to practice that with myself. I have to be like, it's okay, I can say this. How would I say it? Okay, what do you think he'd say back? Okay. If he gets upset about it, how do we manage that? How do we handle that? And I know this sounds tedious, but it's worth practicing if we want to break out of those patterns. And that's kind of what my book, Why Do I Keep Doing This, is about is like breaking out of these patterns that we know we do these things over and over, but and and we almost can't feel like we can't stop. We can. We just have to figure out, you know, how to hang in there and do the do the hard work.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Now you said you started your practice around 2009.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Okay. Now we're looking at 16 years. So from when you first started to now, you have seen people evolve tremendously. And hopefully for the better. How have you seen yourself evolve from when you first started to today?

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Oh, good question. I mean, so many ways. I like to think that, you know, every so often we like shed skins of our past self almost so much that if like I passed somebody on the street, they wouldn't even know me anymore. You know, I'm so different. I think as a therapist in particular, I'm much more confident. I mean, that's obvious doing anything. You know, at the beginning you're super nervous. And I used to think and rethink things that I would say and how I'd ask questions, but I'm much more confident and much more comfortable with silence, much to my patients' dismay. Let them sit in that. And I also think that as I've continued to do work on myself, I've realized better ways to use the this is gonna sound kind of woo-woo, but it's like using the energy of the room to help people uncover parts of themselves that they've been trying to ignore. I've gotten better at asking questions to get in, also.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

I talk about how people are almost like a locked house and some people open the door and let you right in. Here you are. And other people, you have to like find that little window in the back and that you know that doesn't quite lock all the way and jimmy it open and get in that way. And so I've gotten much better at uh getting people to open up.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

And I would say also because I've been online, this is a random perk of having to create content for as long as I have. I definitely feel like my knowledge and understanding, not only of the research, because I have to do that all the time, which I as a clinician, you don't always have to, but also talking to my community has given me a greater understanding of what is really going on with people, what's really the problem. I think a lot of times people come into therapy and they're just feeling bad and they don't even know where to start. And I feel much more equipped to figure that out with them at like a faster pace.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

So again, 16 years dealing with people, 2009 to today. If you had a chance with everything that you know now to tell your younger self, just starting out, what is it that you would tell her?

SPEAKER_00 20:43

I think I would tell myself, don't be so hard. You're just starting out. I'm always really hard on myself. I'd also tell myself to know that it's okay to say you don't know. I think for a long time I felt as a therapist it was like important for me to be like, oh, I have all the answers. We're human. We can't have all the answers. And I don't know if I necessarily pretended to know, but I think I felt bad if I didn't. I think I would tell my younger self to embrace that and make it a place for growth versus shame. And then I think I would also, I would tell her to to try different types of therapy personally earlier on, because I did talk therapy for a long time and it it was helpful, but it wasn't until I did EMDR and I tried parts work that I found it. I I made some huge strides personally, especially with grief, because I lost a lot of my family in a short period of time. So I guess those are some of the things. I'm sure there's others that will come up later, like at two o'clock in the morning. I'll be like, oh, I should have told Tony this. But yeah, those are just a few.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Okay, that's great. Now tell us about your book again. Where can they find it? And I believe you're going on a book tour.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

I am. Yeah, my book, Why Do I Keep Doing This, uh, Unlearn the Habits, Keeping You Stuck and Unhappy, comes out December 9th. I'm doing a short book tour in December, more coming in January. I will be in Santa Monica on December 9th. Then I'm going over to Jacksonville, Florida on December. December 14th, and then I'll be up in Chicago on December 15th. I'd love to see everybody sign books, answer questions. The book itself is just really personal. I hope it helps one person know that they're not alone in the doing weird things over and over and getting the same result and not understanding why. We've all been there before. That's why it's called Why Do I Keep Doing This, right? And they can find me anywhere on the internet, just Katie Morton, K-A-T-I-M-O-R-T-O. And I have a podcast, Ask Katie Anything, that comes out every Thursday. And my YouTube videos come out every Monday.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Now remember, you have to come to Nashville.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

I know. I do. I do. I'd love to like expand the book tour. We'll see how many cities we can hit.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Yeah, that's good. Do you ever find yourself doing self-analyzing to the point where you're going, Whoa, what am I doing here?

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Definitely. I'm trying to break out of that habit, but I'm glad you asked because I definitely am an intellectualizer. That's my like defense mechanism of choice. I like to understand something from every angle. And I saw this post online where somebody was saying their therapist had told them that overthinkers are underfeelers. And I felt very called out. But it it is true. I definitely will try to understand myself. And it's not helpful. I think that's why a lot of people will say, Well, you're a therapist. Like, why are you in therapy? And I'm like, Because I can't therapise myself. You know, I can't do that. That's not that doesn't work that way. I can't challenge myself. I'll let myself off the hook. And so yeah, I definitely analyze things, um, although I'm trying to break that habit.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

What do you think that the listeners need to hear that is really important about what you're doing? You may have touched on it already, but what do you think is important that they know about you?

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Um, about me. Oh, I was gonna I was gonna try to offer another tip or tool.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

You can. You can do that too. We're flexible here.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

No, it's okay. Um, I mean, about me, I guess the thing that I would hope people could hear or could know more about me is that I yes, I'm a therapist, but I don't know everything and I'm not perfect. I mess up too. I always try to make sure that my content online reflects the fact that we're all human. This is all of our first rodeos. We're just trying our best, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

And I like to, especially more recently, I've tried to shift my content more into the like, let's go along this journey together. Let me share what I know, you share what you know, and together we'll work for a better tomorrow. And so that's kind of the goal and what I would hope people could get through following me online or reading my book or you know, uh engaging with any of the content I create. Because I think unfortunately, a lot of people try to act like they know it all, and nobody knows it all. We're just doing the best we can.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Yeah, that's right. Now, is there anything else that you would like to tell our listeners?

SPEAKER_00 24:41

I don't think so. I think I always just want people to know that therapy is beneficial for all. You don't have to wait until you're at your worst. I think getting extra support is always a good choice, and it's a great investment to make in yourself. And also know that every therapist works on a sliding scale, so ask for it if finances are an issue because I know it can be expensive.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Um, yeah, I think that's it. Well, this has been great. Great information, great conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time to join us today.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Oh, it's been my pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know someone who has a story to share, tell them to contact us at why notme.world. One last thing spread the word about why not me. Our conversations, our inspiring guest, the show. You are not alone in this world.