on DRUMS, with John Simeone
This is a local Long Island Podcast given by a veteran drummer on the Long Island music scene. We have a variety of local professional musicians as participants. We joke, give insights and share stories about our over 4 decades of experience in the music profession.
on DRUMS, with John Simeone
Bandstand to Classroom: Joel Levy’s Harmonious Journey Through Music and Education
What happens when a love for music meets the classroom? Join me and my longtime friend, Joel Levy, as we reminisce about our musical adventures from the 1980s and dive into Joel's incredible journey from Syracuse to the stage. You'll hear about Joel's early days playing the clarinet in fourth grade, his switch to the saxophone, and the unforgettable moment at the Eastman Theater that solidified his decision to make music his career. Joel's story is a testament to the power of dedicated educators and the magic of live performance.
Our conversation takes an emotional turn as we explore the highs and lows of balancing a teaching career with a passion for music. From memorable gigs, like the "Phantom of the Opera" themed performance, to the heartfelt advice from loved ones that kept Joel going, we cover it all. Discover how Joel overcame his reluctance to teach full-time, found joy in education, and pursued advanced degrees with guidance from renowned musicians like Eddie Daniels. This episode is a deep dive into perseverance, adaptability, and the fulfillment that comes from following your true calling.
We'll also shed light on the broader challenges and triumphs of music education today. Through personal anecdotes and engaging discussions, we highlight the ongoing struggle for recognition that music teachers face and the positive academic impacts of music education. From humorous performance mishaps to concerns about the decline in live performances and young musicians, we reflect on the past and look toward the future. Celebrate with us the transformative power of music, the role of community bands, and the enduring passion that drives musicians of all ages. Don’t miss this nostalgic, insightful, and inspiring episode with Joel Levy.
okay, this is episode 20, 21 of on drums. I'm john simeoni. Today I have my friend, joel levy. Uh, a friend of mine for how many years, joel? What? Like? Uh, I don, I don't know 30, 40?, 30. It's like the 80s, right, gus days? Yeah Well, yeah right, it's ridiculously long time, 19, yeah. Anyway, we did a million gigs together, right. We did a bunch of stuff together, right. Yeah, that's how we met right.
Speaker 2:And I think we met on Gus's band.
Speaker 1:Was it Gus's band? Yeah, wow, that must have been like, yeah, the 80s, the 1980s. You played after Matt Hardy I don't even remember that name, oh man.
Speaker 2:Oh man.
Speaker 1:That's right. It's like I'm glad I forgot some of this stuff because I don't want to remember Anyway. So this is just really just about, like you know, music and musicians. So give me, give me how you started on this whole, on your whole deal with like you know, doing music. How'd you start? Because everybody's got weird beginnings. Everybody who I've interviewed is like you know, their brother played or they went to school for it, and then this you know, shit happens different ways. How did it happen for you?
Speaker 2:Well, I grew up in Syracuse, New York.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't even know that yeah. I thought you grew up out here.
Speaker 2:No in Syracuse.
Speaker 1:New York Wow.
Speaker 2:And my brothers are older than I am 11 and 9 years older and my older brother played trumpet.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And my parents knew nothing about music, although they were supportive of him.
Speaker 1:Is that right? They weren't musicians? Not at all, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Could barely turn a radio on, really, yeah, um, so I, I get an interest, I guess I'm. And then I, when I was in fourth grade, you know you could pick an instrument in elementary school and great you know, the syracuse city schools had a program I um. I chose a clarinet.
Speaker 1:Clarinet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I remember when I got that clarinet I had very bad allergies as a kid. So I went to the allergy doctor and I had the clarinet and it was a metal clarinet.
Speaker 2:Metal clarinet, metal clarinet, yeah, which they had those back then, yeah, metal clarinet. And I remember I was sitting in a doctor's office and I and I, I took it out of the case and I'm blowing into the cap, blowing into the clarinet with the cap on the mouthpiece, and wonder if nothing's coming out. You know, like I'm getting all upset. So, yeah, so I said, is that you?
Speaker 1:I mean, that's, that's me I'm turning it off right now sorry, um, yeah.
Speaker 2:so then then when I was in sixth grade I moved to Janesville-DeWitt, which is a suburb of Syracuse that had a very good music. So I'm in sixth grade now very good music program and I was playing clarinet in a band. And then my middle school band director, who I was still in great debt to, vic Russo.
Speaker 1:This is in Syracuse.
Speaker 2:This is in Syracuse, this is in DeWitt. Yeah, gave me a saxophone he goes, you should learn how to play the saxophone. So I was playing clarinet and band and then a saxophone and jazz ensemble and I did that for three years and I got to the high school with um and my band director. Still, I still talk to him. Who's that ron news? Oh, you still talk to him yeah, I still talk, we still stay in touch.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And we had a really good program and I was really lucky too, because there was some. I went to school with Walt Weisskopf. Do you know Walt? No I don't Walt's one of the plays with Steely Dan. Oh, Saxophone player. Oh, okay yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, I with her buddy. So I, he's from syracuse as well. Yeah, we went to the. Yeah, we played in band and got in all kinds of trouble together during high school. So I I got to be with walt and we studied with the same private teacher and then uh, yeah, so, so no, wait now.
Speaker 1:So where are we now? You're in, so now I'm like in high school.
Speaker 2:High school and um, yeah, so then, um, my brother was also a pharmacist, so I think, I think it's a long time ago. That's perfect pharmacist musician, yeah, my, I think my parents wanted me to be a pharmacist. Be a pharmacist, we'll get another store, we'll buy a store. So then a couple things happened. One I was um, tony Maiello Do you know that name?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do know that name. Yeah, how do I know that name?
Speaker 2:Conductor? Was it Potsdam for a while? George Mason Okay, that must be how I know him, amazing educator yeah, he did an all-county down there, you know, and I was playing and it just kind of like blew my mind Right and Then I made Allstate as an alternate, but then I got in on clarinet, you know. Yeah, it's funny, you know, kids get so upset when they're alternates.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know alternates.
Speaker 2:Right Then I was an alternate. I went up there and auditioned, then I came in like second chair out of all these you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, so, and man, I still remember the moment we were playing in the Eastman Theater. Yeah, you've seen that right? Yeah, it's a beautiful theater and we were doing a great piece called La Fiesta Mexicana by H Owen Reed, and the second movement was this horn solo and just the band just fades out and it just was like holy shit. And that that was it. I decided to go into music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, See that's how it all, that's how it started, right there. Yeah, like that kind of guy, yeah, that kind of you know, and so then, but I didn't have a lot of maybe, I only auditioned the pot slam, only a pot stand, pot stand man. I got into pot stand, but then I went to pot stand and that was life-changing because, um, yeah, they had a good program right we there were.
Speaker 2:I was there at a really lucky time. They were amazing. I mean, I don, I don't know if you know a guy named Pete Malinverni who's playing all over the Larry Hamm, steve Greenfield, oh, steve, yeah, tom Barney, tom.
Speaker 1:Barney's great.
Speaker 2:Was there for a year.
Speaker 1:I mean, we were all there, so Steve went there too. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Renee, fleming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in fact, rene, you know one of the greatest right, most famous singers in the world.
Speaker 1:These guys were all there when you were there. We're all there at the same time.
Speaker 2:That's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, because I had kind of the same experience when I went to Bridgeport. When I auditioned for University of Bridgeport, neil Slater, the director, played me Dave Weckl's audition tape. He said here's a guy we just accepted and he played because dave lived in st louis, was crubia there? Yeah, I was in his band.
Speaker 2:Okay, because I suffered. There was a tour with a bridgeport band or something, the jazz man, yeah, and I went and played with the band.
Speaker 1:Oh, I was in jazz a um with mike, but I don't mean a different year, because he was there a couple years after I graduated.
Speaker 2:So then back to Potsdam, and then I was playing in a great jazz fusion group and see, the drinking age was 18. Yeah, I was 18 here too, which, okay, listen, everybody drinks now in college, right, right. But because it was 18, there was live music going on in town all the time, right. So we were playing. There was jazz going on four or five nights a week in town. Yeah, see, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:So you're one of the few guys I know who can play and appreciate legit, but can also play jazz too. Sometimes people can't do that. Sometimes one or the other. Sometimes people can't do that, Sometimes, like the, you know one or the other. These guys get stuck into that.
Speaker 2:Well, I started as a. When I got to Potsdam, I was a clarinet performance major. Oh right, that's legit, right but then I realized at that time, man, you took like two other classes and they'd give you a certificate for education. You know, not like all these there's stuff they, poor kids, have to go through now I know, oh man so I ended up getting my ed degree, but then in pots them so many great things happened I met my wife.
Speaker 1:That's a good thing, right? Oh, you met her at school yeah, we went to school.
Speaker 2:She was a great. Leslie was a great singer. I keep, yeah, bothering how come you're not singing.
Speaker 1:I mean she was in the studio with Renee. Yeah, yeah, so she doesn't do, she's not singing anymore.
Speaker 2:No, but she taught a fantastic elementary teacher in East Meadow with me, yeah, yeah. So I ended up playing Tony Maiello again Yep, and I played Chord of Ox.
Speaker 1:Chord of Ox. That's like an accordion.
Speaker 2:It's an accordion with a gigantic cable that would come out of the bottom and plugs into a Hammond B3 cabinet.
Speaker 1:Oh God, you know I used to do gigs with Harry. Harry Underdunk did that, Swung his ass off. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I was playing club dates in Ponsdam with Tony and Jim Peterczak, who taught percussion there. I don't know him. Yeah, jimmy's a yeah. And so I'm going out on the weekends and playing club dates in Potsdam, you know, which leads to a very funny story. So this is great, I tell this one. So I'm in Potsdam playing club dates, but you know we're playing Thai Yellow Ribbon you know, please Release Me. In the Mood, all the hard stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know BG stuff. Yeah, of course, okay.
Speaker 2:so Leslie's father back on Long Island and I had never been to Long Island or New York, you know. You know, leslie's father was a club day trumpet player.
Speaker 1:Oh, so she's from Long Island, leslie's from Comac. She's from Comac, okay.
Speaker 2:Leslie's father's best. One of his best friends was a club day trumpet player. His name was Dingy. That was his nickname, erwin Hyman, dingy Erwin.
Speaker 1:Hyman yeah, Erwin Hyman.
Speaker 2:Erwin Hyman is just as funny, of course, and Dingy had the music at the Plaza Hotel, uh-huh.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's big.
Speaker 2:You know it was society, shit, yeah, society. So Society, shit, yeah, society. So I said can you get me on a gig? And I had never been to New York, maybe I was a junior and he said yeah, yeah. But he told my father-in-law I can get him here, but he probably won't know the business or whatever. He said Right, and I'm like how can I not own a business?
Speaker 1:I'm playing Ty.
Speaker 2:Yellow Ribbon Right right. I'm like how can I not own a business? I'm playing Ty.
Speaker 1:Yellow Ribbon Right right, I'm in. Potsdam. I'm doing all these tunes. Man, music is music, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:All right, so I come to New York for the first time. It was a beautiful snowy night. Man, I'm playing, you know.
Speaker 1:Hey, you came from Potsdam to.
Speaker 2:I came down with Leslie driving, and we're playing New York, new York, in the car. I'm thinking like, here I am, I'm going to make it, you know so Going to make it. So I remember walking to the hotel.
Speaker 1:It was like snowy beautiful pristine. That place is great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I walk in and they introduce me.
Speaker 1:Hi, this is my friend Dingy and I'm looking, looking and it's like it was kind of like a ballroom, yeah, and they were like you know, it's like almost set up like for a big band.
Speaker 2:There were like five saxes, yeah, you know, three bum four trumpets and so it wasn't a club date, it was a, it was a big band. Yeah, yeah, but but so he goes okay thing, he goes nice to meet you. He goes yeah, okay, you sit here, you're playing second alto harmonies. I said oh cool. I said where are the charts? No charts, there's no charts what do we have?
Speaker 1:so how do they play big band with no charts?
Speaker 2:they, they harmonized. Oh, that's a lost skill so the first thing, they did I never. They did like a medley from my fair lady.
Speaker 1:Then after that they did about 20 minutes of viennese waltzes I'm like and you're supposed to harmonize, for that harmonize, I didn't even know the melody right right, so what'd you do?
Speaker 2:I sat there like freaking devastated and I walked out at the end and I it was unbelievable and that's a lost skill. You know, leo arsini, I've never even heard of that, I, and that's a lost skill, you know, leo Arsini, I've never even heard of that. I mean that's that is.
Speaker 2:Well, all those you know, Lester Land and all those kind of gigs, guys would just go in and it's a lost skill in Harmonize. Karubia could do that. Yeah, karubia was good, he was a good player. You know, frank Figuero, I was just like, and you know what? Because I've, I've what I've spoken like, you know, like triumph, things. I know it took me, like it took me 10 years to realize that I didn't suck, I wasn't prepared for that.
Speaker 1:Well, what did they? What did they? I mean, what did they? Did you get feedback from them, because obviously it didn't suck there was nothing to feedback.
Speaker 2:Oh, they didn't say no, really, because I didn't know. It's not that I sucked, he didn't suck. There was nothing to feed back. Oh, they didn't say no, really, because I didn't know, it's not that I sucked, I didn't know that business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I still couldn't do it, so he was assuming you did, I guess, right, no, he was just letting me in to get the experience. Yeah, I see, I see, and you know I was like a phantom, you remember?
Speaker 2:phant, I was sitting there with my thumb up my ass.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah Were you on the Phantom of the Opera gig. You were, weren't you which gig the Gus Coletti Phantom of the Opera gig.
Speaker 2:Oh, I probably. I mean, is that one for Canon Camera?
Speaker 1:No, canon was one of them, but we did. The guy who was obsessed with Phantom of the Opera and he wanted every song to be Phantom, he had to wear masks. Pete Randazzo was on the gig, everybody was on the gig. I thought you were on it, but anyway, pete Randazzo, they made us wear the mask. When the Brian Groove came in, we had to wear the Phantom mask. So they come in right and we're wearing these stupid masks. We're playing and by the end of the first set the people were just taking their masks off and then Pete Randazzo didn't look. He says I all of a sudden I look out at the band and everybody's got their mask off except me. He's the only idiot playing barry sax with this with a mask on. I thought you were on that gig no, but I was on.
Speaker 2:You know I've heard you on prior, the prior podcast. You don't talk about the gus thing oh yeah, yeah, those gigs were because that was my really my first steady gig well, he was in the heyday he caught.
Speaker 1:He was in the heyday of I was going to bring my book, man, I was, you know.
Speaker 2:So then, well, if we continue after pots down, you know, then I, I told you, I, I, um, I, I came down to new york, but I wasn't going to teach full-time, you guys moved to New York from Potsdam, from Potsdam.
Speaker 1:You and your wife moved here.
Speaker 2:Well, Lesley came back home and I moved down here. Okay, Because when I was a senior in Potsdam I was recommended to interview for Brentwood.
Speaker 1:Right, right, which is where I observed you. I observed you when I was a student teacher.
Speaker 2:And I wasn't going to teach the whole time. You know that wasn't in the car. I was going to come down to New York and try to play and get, you know, do some Broadway stuff or whatever. And so I got the job in Brentwood and, like after four years, I still hadn't started my master's right because I was going to you got to do it in five years, five yeah so I, and then I'm starting to realize, hey, you know what?
Speaker 2:this isn't a bag. And my wife, she's giving me good advice over the years she goes and now you know you got to keep doing this teaching thing because, yeah, well, she no shit, was she right? And I was actually. I liked and I thought I was. You know, I might be okay, I might be good at this, you know. So I applied to stony brook to do my masters and at first I applied on flute, which I had no business doing because I hadn't been playing flute that long. By the way, I've been studying privately now with Eddie Daniels.
Speaker 1:What on flute, on clarinet, oh, clarinet, eddie Daniels, wow, yeah, yeah, for like three years. So what did you have to go into the city for that or something?
Speaker 2:Was it.
Speaker 1:Did you have to go into the city to to? Yeah, well, my first couple lessons were in sag harbor. Really, he had a house on. He had a house, a summer house on the beach in sag harbor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, that's cool. So I applied and. But sam baron was the flute professor who was one of the most renowned flute teachers and and he must have heard something you know that he liked in my plane he goes well, you're not ready on flute. Well, there's women there named alexis still, who's one of the. I mean, yeah, the performance program at stony brook at the time might still be was conservatory level, yeah so I went to stony brook also, but I didn't go for.
Speaker 1:I went for like a I don't know whatever, just to get my master's.
Speaker 2:So then, I played on clarinet for david leisure and he took me in, so your degree at Stony Brook.
Speaker 1:your master's was in what Performance? Clarinet performance, oh, clarinet performance.
Speaker 2:So, and that's a two year program, so I'm still going to lose my master's Right, lose my teaching certification. So halfway during the year I said and the guy teaching there, his name was David Glazier and David was elderly at the time, he was like 84, 85. Sometimes I'd go into his house on Central Park and take a lesson. I said, mr Glazier, can I any way? I can finish this degree in a year. And he goes. I'll make that happen for you, really. But here's what you got to do. I want you to come back the following year, take lessons again for a year and do another couple of recitals. I was like ka-ching, okay, because it would go towards my master's right the credits my credits.
Speaker 2:Yeah to your pay scale, so I did that and then, um, instead of going back to teaching brentwood because there was some weird involuntary but you know I applied for jobs and I was offered Walt Whitman High School.
Speaker 1:Walt Whitman's great right. That was a good. That's Huntington.
Speaker 2:Yeah, except they scared me out of it because I hadn't even gotten a job yet and I forget the director's name goes. Okay, here's the marching band competition dates and here they're going there, they're going.
Speaker 1:Oh, they were big into that, yeah, and I'm like holy shit, I mean okay, then I got a job in North Shore High School.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I did North Shore for a year and it was different than Brentwood. Yep, rich kids, right, you know Brentwood, the kids there, man, the kids, they're still great kids in that music program. Brentwood gets a bad rap, and you know that music program is really first rate man.
Speaker 1:when I very, I mean, I was very impressed with what you could do.
Speaker 2:They uh, yeah, those kids are jump off the building and they're very appreciative, yeah when I taught in west islip.
Speaker 1:I taught in there was, like you know, west islip's got a north and south side. You know how those towns are like the south side's got money, the north side doesn't have money and I would teach elementary in both sides. I'd try. You know travel and the kids on the north side were just different kids. They they the same thing, same idea, like they just had less. So they were more appreciative and north shore.
Speaker 2:So then I went to um north shore school district, c cliff, gunwood, landing, and, um, believe me, there were some great people there and some great kids, but it was a different vibe, yeah, yeah, and a different administrative vibe. You know like the junior high band met split.
Speaker 1:You know with like one half flutes and drums.
Speaker 2:You know that was, and the last period of the day on a friday in a room with you know. So at the high school there were 25 kids in the band because there were problems when I was gonna towards the end. You know, I'd like like 50 kids signed back then. But there was a guy there who was a director of music named charlie gauss. People wouldn't. Yeah, he was a great musician, great conductor.
Speaker 2:I mean, I had dr charlie got great musician and um we were writing letters to the superintendent and everybody about um trying to change the schedule at the high school to get him to work and I remember the middle school band director. Well, I can say this.
Speaker 1:Yeah right right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, he came up and goes. You know, I don't know why you're pushing so hard to change your schedule. He goes. If you had it my way I'd eliminate that music program. Great. And I said to him why did you hire me? Yeah, why did you hire me? What did you think? So Bill Katz from East Meadow then recommended me I mean, recruited me, right. And I said first, I said now I'm going to make a work in North Shore. Then he called back like in April and says okay, and I interviewed him and got that gig and that's where I spent the rest of my career.
Speaker 1:So you did the career in east meadow, east meadow, right. And how many years were you there? 29, 29, huh and I'm still there yeah, you're still teaching two days a week through both.
Speaker 2:He's just teaching lessons and that's awesome and that's where I met ken seppi yeah, the great ken seppi ken when I got the job with kenny and if people don't know kenny, kenny nobody played. Nobody played trumpet like ken seppi you know he's great I mean the greatest lead broadway. Yep, you know so I got the game. He was out of his mind, you know, and still is. Uh, I got the gig and I walk into the office and kenny walks in and he had the big hair on the trumpet belt he goes okay, kid he goes.
Speaker 2:You got the gig, he goes, he goes. Do anything you want, just don't get in the way of my. That's great, that was my introduction. East meadow and ken seppi that's great.
Speaker 1:And we became like brothers, you know, like it's funny how this very the variations in in the way they view music from district to district right isn't it isn't it weird like some districts are, you know, you know all cool about it and some are like it's an annoyance to them.
Speaker 2:And East Meadow. If I were to tell you the players that have come out of East Meadow, I know I mean it's great.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you something that happened here, because now I'm on the other side of it. My kids are in the music department in East Islip. So I went to Open House East Islip and they have a young band director. Went to open house East Islip and there's a young. They have a young band director. Her name is Maniscalco I can't think of her first name, but she's great and we're sitting in the band room. You can appreciate this. You know she's. You know how difficult, how shitty open school night is. You gotta talk to all these parents about your gig, right? You've done it a million times, right?
Speaker 1:yeah okay, so. So she's given us to spiel and she's saying you know, and we have lessons once a week or whatever, and they have, it rotates. And one now the room's filled with parents and this teacher. When one parent raises their hand and says, what if my son has lessons during math? And she says, well, you know, I have to make up, either miss math and make up the math or make up the lesson. So then the parent falls up with this what if I this, what if I think math is more important than music and I just want him to take lessons during his math class. And I was like so appalled by this statement. Like she's saying to this teacher I think the guy who teaches math, you guys went to the same four years of school, both got degrees, but I think the math stuff's more important than what you teach. That's like I was so humiliated for this teacher.
Speaker 1:It's always math. I mean, what is with math?
Speaker 2:It's always the math teachers.
Speaker 1:I get it, man. But I went up to her afterwards I said listen, I'd like to apologize for that person's comment, you know, because that's she really put her on the spot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:And it's just, it was embarrassing, you know, like that's just there you go, there's that, there's that take on music and I don't think, I don't know if East Islip is like in general that you know they're mostly it's everywhere.
Speaker 2:I was a yeah, is it everywhere? So I was handling that. I had a phone call once and it was a school board member. Oh God, it was a school board member who actually got the, he got axed, yeah, and I got a phone call and her kid she goes. Mr Levy, just want to let you know, and her kid she goes.
Speaker 1:Mr Levy just want to let you know my kid will not miss any major subject Major subject Don't you like the way they call it, Like I'm not major Because she can come during lunch and she can come during blah, blah, blah blah, and I said well, that's not really how it works.
Speaker 2:I says you know we can be flexible, she's got a test.
Speaker 2:All right we'll make her up, you know, we can be flexible. She's got a test, all right, we'll make her up, you know. Or if she's got a preference, I goes. Well, I'm going to let you know. I'm going on the school board now and the first thing I'm going to try to do is eliminate the music lessons. And I said, well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but she's got to come to her classes during that, all right. So then I told my principal that, yeah. And then my superintendent was super supportive and called this person up.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's cool and blasted them Because you could have had a principal who didn't want to do anything like that this is a superintendent, superintendent, goes, don't you ever call a teacher as a school board member saying that you, you know, want and so. But there was always one of the battles and I feel like it's how many years this is.
Speaker 1:Like you know, we're talking about 30 years ago versus today, and it's still kind of the same deal, right?
Speaker 2:It's the same thing with Bill Katz was in East Meadow 50 years ago and you know Terry Negrelli. Once I'm sure he told you he came up with a spreadsheet of all the kids in and with the lessons and they generally on data on paper, did better than the other kids.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh no, I told that's almost science. I think Kids who study music are better better academically.
Speaker 2:You know, you could debate why that is, but anyways, but that's that's just part of our business.
Speaker 1:Did you hear Terry's the four stages of a musician's life on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Did you hear it? Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1:Stage one is you know, I'll use your name First. Stage one is who the fuck is Joel Levy? And stage two is we got to get Joel Levy and stage three is we need a young Joel Levy. And stage four is who the fuck is Joel Levy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so then am I just supposed to keep bullshitting?
Speaker 1:Oh, good, good, this is great. Yeah, then so then, when I was I'm supposed to keep bullshitting. Yeah, is everybody sleeping yet?
Speaker 2:I can hear the snoring in the background. Then Abby Bear, who was like my closest, my closest friend, I said who we lost this week. She came up and goes. You know, her son played in the long island youth orchestra. They'd been around for like 50 years. You know, there's these youth orchestras. There's nothing for the band kids, so why don't we start something? So?
Speaker 1:ken, so she was at what was her uh instrument.
Speaker 2:She's a great flute player flute player, yeah player, yeah, flute player. So we started Anastasophic Performing Arts 35 years ago with Ken Sepe. You too started. Yeah and Kenny, and we started out with one concert band, one jazz ensemble. The first year Rich Roselli did the jazz ensemble. I went to college with her. She was at POSM too.
Speaker 1:Wow, POSM had a lot of people. Did Kevin DeLittle go there?
Speaker 2:No, he went to Fredonia, fredonia right and then Bill took over doing a jazz ensemble and then over the year we expanded to. We have three jazz ensembles now and you're still doing it, still doing it for concert balance and that's cool, you're still doing it man. Yeah, so I'm doing that and uh, I'm doing a lot of things, you know I do. Uh, I'm also conducting the long island youth orchestra now, uh-huh, um what are they so?
Speaker 1:so I I'm interested how, how do kids get into those things? They audition, you have to audition, do you have to have a NISMA score and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:Now they send in a video.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah and listen. If it's a really good player that didn't go to NISMA for whatever and they deserve a spot, we'll give them a spot.
Speaker 1:Well, that's good.
Speaker 2:And with NASA Suffolk we have so many groups we try to find a spot. That's cool, man Doing that. And then I was conducting the Atlantic Wind Symphony for a while and we have a NASA Suffolk alumni band, which is pretty special. You've got a lot of stuff going on, man. Yeah, and the last concert we honored Gina Pelletieri. Gina, she was the band director from Farmerdale. No, I don't know, that was killed in a bus accident. Oh, yes.
Speaker 1:My cousin teaches in that building. That was supposed to be on that trip. Yes, oh my God, yeah and Gina.
Speaker 2:She was the manager of the alumni band.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so at the alumni concert. It's an alumni band concert we just did. His name is Vinny Apito. He's a composer in LA from East Metal Right. He wrote a piece for her. Yeah, and the Bayshore Community Band Is Terry doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we do it together.
Speaker 2:You know then yeah, so now a little segue. So now I'm down here and I'm playing, I'm doing, I was doing, oh my God, with Gus we're doing 140 club dates a year oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I got my sheets. No showcases.
Speaker 2:No showcases, no showcases. We do four and five club dates on the weekend. Get up Monday morning and go teach marching band Yep, yep, and I didn't wear frickin' earplugs Right and I didn't wear freaking earplugs Right and I paid the price. That's right, we all did. We're all deaf now. Everybody has paid the price from that. You know, denise, remember Gus was one of the first guys that had one of those giant PAs. Yeah, we called it Junior, remember.
Speaker 1:It would take like four of us to lift it up the stairs at the front.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then we got to go over the troth of death at the crest hollow yeah, man troth of death the troth of death.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, that was the worst part of the cake was we schlepped all the equipment for gus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know he wouldn't get roadies and gus had a giant pa and I remember he had like these bows behind his head yep behind denise's head with these cover ramps on each one and they'd move their heads and it would feed back.
Speaker 1:You're hearing a frickin' jersey you know that was a loud band. Richie Scolo used to stand behind the Bose speaker and aim it at the audience like a machine gun. He would hold the Bose and like aim it at people.
Speaker 2:And then the frickin'. Who's the guy that ran that? Oh my God, Run in the gig, running the club day, running the manager of the catering hall. Which way Of Crest Hollow, Of any of those places They'd come up and go? Yeah, the horns are too loud.
Speaker 1:Oh, Crest Hollow was Huntington's House, was Hal Silver, but the Crest Hollow man who did that.
Speaker 2:And the Narragansett Inn oh God that place. And it would be so loud and every gig I'd go with sal rendazzo. I go, sal, how's this mouthy sound, sal, how's this mouthy sound? And he looked at me one night and goes you asshole, he goes. We could bark in the microphones and nobody would turn around.
Speaker 1:That's right, so I remember playing hot stuff and horns.
Speaker 2:Let's go, blah, blah and we're going. It's loud, nobody turned around, nobody blinked you know, then the catering guy running the party come up goes.
Speaker 1:Hey, the horns Blah blah, and we're going ruff ruff, it's loud.
Speaker 1:Nobody turned around, nobody blinked. Then the catering guy running the party comes up and goes hey, the horns are too loud. You heard my Gus story. How I started with Gus, I was let's see, this is so fucked up.
Speaker 1:I was 15 or 16 years old and my dad was friends with Gus and he you know, I'm, I'm 15, whatever, I'm a kid, right, I'm playing drums, he, we're going to a fourth of july party and my dad says to me no, don't, don't wear shorts and a shirt, wear, wear pants and a shirt and a long sleeve shirt. But what? And then you didn't talk back to my father, so I just did it. So now I'm the only asshole dressed like it's going to to a wedding at a fourth of july party. Then Then he goes all right, come on, we're going to go. And he takes me and his brother, my uncle Sonny. We drive to the Narragansett Inn. We drive and we walk right into somebody's wedding. Gus is playing and I said what is going on? He said you're going to sit in with the band. So he goes up to Gus, gus goes, yeah, and I. I play a couple of tunes and then we leave.
Speaker 1:I had no idea, even on the ride home. What was happening? And then a month later Gus hires me At 16. I'm like I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. So I play like two months or a month or so and I was 16. I wasn't ready for that gig and he wound up firing me because I just wasn't ready and I was like devastated. I was like almost not going to go into music. I was going to like quit. You know, I wasn't. It was a bad situation. So then I go to college, I become a better drummer, a good drummer, and I start teaching in West Islip, where Gus lives, yeah, and then he rehires me. Like 15 years later he rehires me and I played out the rest of the gigs till there was no more gigs.
Speaker 2:You know, say what you want. Gus was a good entertainer. He was. He was a good. He was a great singer. It was a good singer.
Speaker 1:He was a good singer. Yeah, you know, I mean, it was, the band was fun, sam and richie yeah, great years yeah it was was fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then I left that band and I went to Body Heat Body Heat's another great band With Kevin Keyes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kevin was. Yeah, I did. I subbed for Bobby one night.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that we did a long time. Then a little bit with a guy, Sal Scala Eileen Loud.
Speaker 1:I don't know her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they had the hot music. Jeff Lang did that gig a lot.
Speaker 1:Then one of the last gigs I did was Alan Kane. Alan Kane Club dates.
Speaker 2:Club dates, alan Kane, yeah, but a lot of those gigs were in Philadelphia Oof. Now we're talking, you know, and it paid. Let's say it paid 700 bucks back then right, but you'd leave your house at three o'clock in the afternoon yeah, you drive to philadelphia, then at the end of the night you have to wait to get paid. Yeah, I'm with john briley too in the car, which was always I had john's son john jr.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had him in band you know, and then you drive home, and you get home and the birds be chirping and some be coming up, and I said holy shit. I mean like, this is like 14 hours. This is not worth it, but we were doing very high wealthy people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, those are the gigs down there one of them, don't forget.
Speaker 2:there was a special entertainer and there were like 10 piece band right and they said if we want to stay and listen, we can, but please don't leave the room once this person starts to play. Wow, I'm like who the room? Once this person starts to play? Wow, I'm like who the fuck? Would this be right? And I remember there was a curtain along the whole back of the room.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:With big PA kind of set up. The curtain opens up, Bam, bam, boop, boop, boop. Do Elton John.
Speaker 1:Oh really. And we was like Wow, holy shit, why didn't they say who it was? I don't know, that's weird, this person, don't leave on this person.
Speaker 2:This is 25, 30 years ago, and I know Elton got a mill to do that gig. Oh, easily yeah.
Speaker 1:See, now you know what Joel You're. How many now? You've worked with a lot of music teachers. You know a lot of music teachers, right, gazillion.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:So my entire career was West Island and I worked with I would say so like see, lenny LaPinta was there, kevin was there, but aside from Lenny and Kevin, everybody else who was a music teacher I couldn't tell you what they played, which is a weird like. It's such a weird thing. Like you know, I was doing gigs forever and teaching and there were people who do that gig and never play their instrument. Isn't that weird? You're not that obviously You're a player and a teacher.
Speaker 2:Well, we did have the philosophy in East Meadow. Always was first thing you did when you came there. For an interview yeah play, you played, and especially with Abby who was the director when you got hired.
Speaker 1:Oh, when I got hired, the director of music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my God it might have been Lynn Kurtz.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, who's like? Where was Al Longo?
Speaker 2:That's Middle Country. That's Jeff Lang, middle country. Yeah, okay, so he hired Jeff.
Speaker 1:He hired Jeff Lang, because I played for Al in the McDonald's all-star jazz band. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we'd always make people play, and so in East Meadow we ended up getting people like John Marshall.
Speaker 1:Oh, God, john. I just was doing a gig with John Robin Hall, yeah.
Speaker 2:John's great, you know. Bill Kinslow, steve Engel, players, yeah, players.
Speaker 1:But it's funny how some people don't hire players, they hire.
Speaker 2:There's a great Leonard Bernstein quote and it's up on the wall in East Meadow High School where I taught and I would give it to every kid wanting to go into music and it said to be something like to be the best music teachers possible, we need to be outstanding musicians who specialize in education.
Speaker 1:Something like that. Yeah, yeah, but it's interesting that you could get a music education gig and not necessarily be a player. I mean, I don't know, you have to play something, right?
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know, I mean, I work with people who I couldn't to this day tell you what their major instrument was. I always said when I go, man, hopefully I'll be remembered in this. You know, in this order, like musician musician, first teacher administrator, right, but that you know, we won't talk about that. You know the administrative thing, yeah. So then after the club date thing, leslie told me kind of to stop and I stopped. That's your wife. Oh yeah, I always wanted to play Broadway.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and Walt Weiskopf was playing study on Broadway and got me the sub and the first show I subbed was Fosse. Oh, that was a while ago, right? That's super long time ago yeah. And on Fosse show I saw was fossey. Oh, that was a while ago, right, that's super long time ago, yeah, yeah. And on fossey there was a chair there. We had to go up on stage at the end of the night and play, sing, sing, sing and benny goodman's clarinet solo. He did on that and what was doing that?
Speaker 2:who plays better than wall? What was doing that book and the conduct? The um the md of that show was a pretty intense dude.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which we'll talk about? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And Walt couldn't take the pressure anymore, wow, and he went down to the third book. We didn't have to do this. So I subbed that book a little bit Like, only for like four or five shows. And then the next show I subbed was was it Young Frankenstein? Forgive me, it's a big Sutton Foster show.
Speaker 1:The Little.
Speaker 2:Women, Sweet Charity, Young Frankenstein, Thoroughly Modern Millie.
Speaker 1:What's that?
Speaker 2:one Thoroughly Modern Millie, I don't know that one. Oh yeah, I did that a lot.
Speaker 1:That's a Broadway show. That was a Broadway show. Oh, it was a big Broadway show yeah, and I was sub 60, 70 of those, right, but so you're subs, though. You're subbing, right, yeah, see, now I've had a couple of Broadway guys on here and they all kind of say the same thing. It's great, except it is the opposite of creativity. You are relegated to play the same thing over and, over and over again.
Speaker 2:But the challenge is you're obligated to play the same thing over right, right, yeah, yeah, really, yeah, yeah, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:There's no stretching out, there's no um, you know.
Speaker 2:But there's a whole nother skill set there oh yeah yeah, I mean, and you know because I do shows now I'm about to start a show at uh sag harbor.
Speaker 1:You know six days a week and you know for somebody playing a gazillion dollars come and seeing that show the first time yeah they don't want to hear somebody going in there and and no, I'm saying, like you know, like some guys like like the interaction of playing off other people and that doesn't happen at a, yeah, but in the book and maybe also as a woodwind doubler, you know, and you're playing so many horns that it's the challenge is okay, every night I, you know, do this.
Speaker 1:I had the drummer from. You know there's a show on Broadway called and Juliet right now. Yeah, so he was on last month on my show and he was telling me he also subbed on Hamilton, and Hamilton music doesn't stop.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He said so it's a challenge. You plan like the two hours straight If you have to go to the bathroom, you're kind of fucked. You like the two hours straight if you have to go to the bathroom, you're kind of fucked. You're like stuck, you cannot especially drums.
Speaker 2:You're like that's a drum book man and the pressure of subbing, oh, that's high pressure work. Did you hear the?
Speaker 1:Joel, I mean not the Joel, the Steve Greenfield story on that, which one About subbing. He was on a show and somebody there was this he told us a story on a club date. Yeah, I think the viola player subbed. She came in and and it was a, you know, you get your book. I've never done it, so I don't know. He said you could grab your book and that's, you're playing viola or whatever. Uh, cello, I'm sorry. He said in this particular show they had two leads, so when one lead was on, there was a different book. Yeah, because of a different key.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So and obviously, and you know, coincidentally, one of the songs starts with viola or a cello.
Speaker 2:And he had the wrong key up.
Speaker 1:And the girl came in and she had the wrong book. He said so. This is the way Steve describes it. He goes, you know, and the cello player starts the tune in the wrong key and the singer starts singing in the wrong key because that's what he hears. He goes and then the orchestra comes in A half step away from everything that's going on.
Speaker 2:I mean, I have a similar story. The conductor at Millie was very intense.
Speaker 1:Why are they always intense?
Speaker 2:He'd be handing out post-its during the show. During the show, to people like, okay, you suck.
Speaker 1:Really Wow.
Speaker 2:He'd be handing out post-its, right. Yeah, I could see why I mean it's perfection right, you have to be no just you know, and luckily, I think, sky liked me, you know, and I was sitting right under him, right? Okay, so I had been using Jeff Lang's bass clarinet? Yeah, because I didn't, and finally I was starting to work a lot doing this shit. So I made the plunge and I think back then it was like $13,000 for a bass clarinet so now I remember Sutton Foster was out and there were understudy keys, okay.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm talking about, right?
Speaker 2:So before the show started I said, okay, 13, 17 understudy keys and you pull them from the back and it was saying on the top understudy key.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:So you know, like, don't fuck this up.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I'm playing and on a sudden, and I'm next to the wall, in the pit, over the wall it was an audience member, oh, and it spilled into the pit and spilled onto the bell of my new bass clarinet and my tenor, oh, and I'm like freaking out you.
Speaker 1:Somebody put it on top of the wall. Yeah, the audience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm freaking out. Okay. Then it was time for like a little incidental thing and I must have pulled that music. When I pulled the underscudded key out Must have gotten stuck that I plucked, the chart's gone. So I don't know. I pick up my clarinet and I kind of played it by memory because I knew it. The conductor immediately takes out a post-it note. You suck Gets the post-it note and he hands it to me and it was a smiley face that said one get out of jail free for the spilled soda. And he turned around and blasted during the show this audience member. Oh, really.
Speaker 2:Do you realize what you just happened.
Speaker 1:So it must have been a guy in the front row, obviously, right, yeah, yeah, wow, well, good for him, though, and at the end of the show he goes are your horns?
Speaker 2:okay, Go home, we'll find a chart tomorrow, Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's something, man and it was another one where I was having the first time at Sweet Charity and this conductor was a prince, he was a great he man and um, and I'm playing and it's going well, and there's a big clarinet solo because, man, you know, you prep your ass off. So when you go in there you know, yeah, yeah, and I was sitting next to a guy named keith o'quinn. He's a bass trombone player and he goes stop, he flags me off, stop, and you're like what the you know? So the first half gets over, the conductor gets off the stand and walks right over to me and I'm going like holy shit, this is it. He's telling me to go home and he goes to me. You're doing great, he goes. The guy on the stage dropped about eight measures. Oh, because you would have never caught it.
Speaker 1:Oh, because I don't know if the regular would have caught it. Oh, the singer dropped it. Yeah, he goes, don't worry about it. Wow, wow, that's unbelievable, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:So now I do shows in Angamon and Argyle and that's cool, man, sad Harbor, it's cool you're doing that.
Speaker 1:I mean, what do you think about? Like I don't know? You're in kind of a different spot. The reason why I'm like so, like I did this podcast, is because I'm like so pissed off at the state of music right now. You know, it's like you used to go to a bar and there'd be players, you know guys playing. Now you go, it's like. Now it's like everybody, you, that's all. The requirement is you just buy. You know you play for $10, doesn't matter, you know it's like. Irritates me, man, that that.
Speaker 2:I think it's, I think it's only going to get worse. Yeah, because I know, because I work with so many kids you know doing. Asosophic and Lyle that it's getting harder to get kids and it's a trend we've been seeing um, there's still some very good players out there and very good kids, but used to be like our second concert band with nexus hoffick would be a level six band with nine, with 90 players and what now?
Speaker 1:now, they're just not, they're just not there well, you know that, you know this.
Speaker 2:I think the the numbers in in music programs are dropping they're dropping yeah. I will say a program very close to your heart. You know the high school program numbers have gone from a heyday of. What do you think of Jim Crace at West High?
Speaker 1:School, yeah, yeah, yeah I think that program.
Speaker 2:At one time he was peaking at 250 between 9 to 12. And I think I just talked to him he's down to 90.
Speaker 1:90 90, yeah, and 90 surprising, actually. What do you think, I think? What do you think that is happening? Now, like I just what? It's? Just because they're distracted, they're I think that jim did tell me a story recently.
Speaker 1:Like he was, he was doing his traditional go you know, all right, play you know. Going on his band, pointing at a kid okay, you play this, you play this, you play this, you play this just to see if they could play it, he said, and before the period was over, one of the kids texted their parent and the parent was on the phone with them next period because he embarrassed their kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what to say about that I.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, everything's got to feel good, right? I just yeah. Everything's got to feel good, right, I just yeah everything's got to feel good. I think that a lot of it has got to do with scheduling in the schools, where these kids are um under ib programs and you got to take 4 000 aps and or whatever, and I and I I wish we could change the mindset like I wish.
Speaker 1:Um, oh, sorry about that. That's uh, oh, that's the my music. Um, I wish we could change the mindset Like I wish. Oh, sorry about that. That's oh, that's my music that was good. I wish we could change that mindset. Like that it's, you know that it still exists, that this is kind of like an afterthought, you know. Like it's not, it should be it counted as a major subject, you know, all right, great Science, math, music. It makes sense to me that that is a career choice.
Speaker 2:But people that haven't experienced what we have experienced as musicians and playing and have their hair on your arm stand up, but yeah okay. It's hard for them to realize the importance of the arts that's exactly.
Speaker 1:You just hit the nail on the head. Actually, I saw an interview I was watching an interview with Weckl and Dave said that he said I didn't choose drums, drums chose me. It's like you don't have a choice and nobody gets that. It's the only occupation really where you don't have a choice. It's like being a heroin addict.
Speaker 2:You just got to do it. I used to tell the kids they wanted to go into music and I would never say. I would say, well, you realize it's a difficult business, it is yep, and we're just talking a bit. But if you feel like you can't do anything else, go for it.
Speaker 1:You got to do it.
Speaker 2:Right, you don't have a choice. Did you watch the Last Repair?
Speaker 1:Shop no.
Speaker 2:What is that? You Should Wash it. And anybody that's listening has watched the Last Repair Shop. It's a documentary about the LA schools and in LA they still supply all the instruments to the kids Wow. And it's about a repair shop that maintains these instruments and the lives of the people that fix the instruments. But the first scene of the program is a young girl playing a violin and she's just saying you know if I didn't have my violin.
Speaker 2:You know there's all kinds of health problems in my family my father's signal on her goes if I didn't have that violin goes. Oh, don't even go there yeah, and that's true.
Speaker 1:I mean it's inside of you and I and I can't think of any. Well, maybe like, maybe like film, I don't know any kind of, I guess, creative. But music is like it's in you or it's not. You know what I mean, like people outside of it who look at friends I have who are non-musicians, who look at my friends who are musicians, who are 65 years old, who are like still on the road and they're getting tired and they're not making a lot of money. Don't get it.
Speaker 2:They're like, well, well, why did you do that? You know what I mean with the community band that I kind of could be sure a bright waters band with terry, so we can the other night talk about a beautiful scene. Really, when I think about this, we had about 70 people there from east meadow. We had about 30 people there and then adults that haven't played in 20, 30 years and they came up to me after and goes. Thank you for letting me play.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, see, and man, that's what it's all about. I wish you know. It's hard. It's like trying to explain to somebody.
Speaker 2:When I was in. Again another unique thing about I keep talking about East Meadow, how great it was, but it really was Chair meetings, you know. Department chair meetings yeah, I used to love those and this stuff would come up and I remember once a department chair of English, Dr Frank Cacciuto, would go, you know, Because he's a doctor, dr.
Speaker 2:Frank Cacciuto from Harvard. Kenny used to have meetings with him and he'd be yawning in his verbiage and nobody could understand. God damn it. Frank speak english, you know, you know, but frank would go. You know, the kids come to school. They don't come to school to go to math. They don't come to school to go to. They're coming to school to play in band they're coming to school to go to football. They're coming right exactly and then, and then they're motivated to go to english and go to math exactly, you know.
Speaker 1:So yeah, the total, I mean I you know I feel I almost feel bad for my kids because they're not I mean, they're too my, they have to. I'm a music teacher, I was a music teacher and a musician and I they don't. Most of their friends can can like slack off when it comes to practicing and stuff and they can't because I force them, because I'm in a different.
Speaker 1:I have a different perspective on the whole thing. You know it's, it's such a, it's such a strange. Uh, I'll tell you what. I'm glad I'm out now.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't be able to, I'd be fired yeah, but you know, you said something too about I mean, you were a great player and you were I hear you were you were a great educator, I was a good, I was a good.
Speaker 1:You know what's funny is um, here's something funny just quickly. We I was at Arches with my wife, you know Arches, deer Park, the shopping center.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And she's now working in. She's a Spanish teacher and in her department is a Spanish teacher she's very friendly with who was in my middle school band. You know she was a former student, so we'll go and we'll walk through Arches and we run into her and her mother and now her mother knows me as the band teacher and that's what she said to me. She says I remember you, what you used to do, the things you used to say at the concerts and you were so funny and you know like people were. You know it's like it's all of a sudden she was back to being a parent, even though her kids now an adult. You know who is a teacher. You know it's impactful stuff.
Speaker 2:I thought and you know what we can't forget as teachers, you know, when we're standing in front of kids and working with kids, it's a very powerful and responsible thing we're doing. Yeah, and they're always listening. Yep, yep, they'll come back and say something that you said. They're always listening. You may think they're not.
Speaker 1:I run into kids now who are adults, who will quote me?
Speaker 2:man, they're like some stuff. I said yeah, it's just, it's scary actually you know, and um, you know, and the thing that drove me out of east meadow, this could be a final. You know that and I'm not saying that being an Okay, bill Katz a lot of people know who he is was the department chair.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Bill left, then Ken Sepe took over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then I guess it was my turn.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to do that.
Speaker 1:You didn't want to be an administrator, I didn't want to be. How long were you an administrator though 15 years.
Speaker 2:So I'm doing the administrative gig and I always thought my job as an administrator. I was the bullshit buffer Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you protect your guys.
Speaker 2:I tried to keep the bullshit away from my teachers, right? Yeah, so they could just do this thing.
Speaker 1:That's what Bernie did.
Speaker 2:Bernie was there, you know, fighting Poor Bernie, yeah, and then this thing came down the road called are we getting here? No, we're good. Called Charlotte Danielson, which was an observation thing where you would get remember that highly effective, all that stuff we were going through right.
Speaker 1:I was at the tail end of that.
Speaker 2:So when you would evaluate the teachers, now they have, like this, four rubrics and so we were getting trained in East Meadow Trained.
Speaker 1:I know Trained After like teaching for you know how to observe a teacher.
Speaker 2:So six days a year Of training, training, oh my God. And I remember, man, we had our Charlotte Danielson book and I walked in the second day and I'm already like losing my mind, okay. And then the next day we walked in and the trainer goes okay, show me your book, show me, your book is dirty because you're reading it. I said to the people show me your book. I'm going to go home and stick this book under my dog's ass. Okay, I'll show you my book.
Speaker 2:So then and everything we had to grade the same. So she says okay, now at this point in your lesson, pretend, grade the same. So she's okay, now at this point in your lesson, pretend you're doing a band rehearsal. Okay, at this point in your lesson. Now you have to stop and let the kids have a conversation about what's going on. Oh god, I raised my hand, I stood up, I says wait a minute, excuse me. So I'm in a rehearsal and you could hear a pin drop right and like everybody's sitting on the edge of their chair which is the way it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1:Their eyes are wide open, it's supposed to be like that.
Speaker 2:You can feel right. And now I'm supposed to stop and say okay, everybody talk to each other now.
Speaker 1:Talk to each other about this. That's ridiculous.
Speaker 2:I said are you kidding? That's dumb. I said, can't it? Just you can't put a, what is it? Square peg in a round hole yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, that's somebody who doesn't obviously doesn't get it.
Speaker 2:So then, so then they would test us at the end of the year, like take a test all day long and the first one we took us on this little laptop computer and you couldn't even understand it. And after the second year of that I was like yeah. I went down to personnel and asked them my retirement papers. Now, the following year, they changed and to do a teacher's observation, there were 72 lines of evidence. You have the right. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:So it would take Now who is reading those 72 lines.
Speaker 2:It would take you Ugh Plus a pre-observation, post-observation. Yeah, it would take you three days to write it up right, it's busy. Work it's busy and you know what. All I wanted to do was be with the kids right, yeah, yeah, yeah man I used to teach.
Speaker 2:You know it was a nine period day. I would teach eight periods whenever it was a period. You see I'm going off here. Here's the thing. Teachers don't. I don't see as much anymore. Let's just leave it at that. Right, when my program was thriving and Kenny was there and Jim Dragovich was doing his program and Hewlett and Larry Bell, all these guys, man, you wouldn't take a period off. You throw your lunch down. The kids come down you play duets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You play come throw your lunch down. The kids come down. You play duets, yeah, yeah, yeah, you play, come play. Yeah, right, let's go. Yeah, and that's how you got them excited. I don't think that exists anymore and that just I don't think it exists anymore and maybe it's because there's so much paperwork and busy stuff. But yeah and I think that's how we got the kids who are very that is. That is how you got the kids.
Speaker 1:I mean that's the way I felt that kind of that way in west isa for and in Islip where I went to Islip. It was the same deal. They had an enthusiasm about it.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know, then we're you know all this stuff like band trips. Yeah, man, we could talk forever, forever, it's so funny.
Speaker 1:Well, we kind of have to wrap this up here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, we, wow, we were at the end. Is everybody still awake?
Speaker 1:But, joel man, that was great stuff and I'm glad you did this. It's like it's cool. You know it's cool to hear your perspective. You know, especially because you're one of those guys who's a player and you know a real good educator as well. You know it's rare man.
Speaker 2:Again, I keep mentioning Tony Maiello. Right, tony, in a wind ensemble rehearsal he was doing a wind ensemble. He goes you should be practicing three hours a day. And then the guy who was running the education course was saying you should be practicing your secondary instruments and not practicing your main instrument and wait a minute. Not that it's not important to know your secondary instruments and everything, but how can you be a really good music educator unless?
Speaker 1:you're a good musician. It's almost secondary teaching musicianship, I don't know. Yeah, all right, man. Well, thanks a lot for coming, joel, yeah this is great Thanks.
Speaker 2:Thanks, man. Yeah, all right.
