on DRUMS, with John Simeone
This is a local Long Island Podcast given by a veteran drummer on the Long Island music scene. We have a variety of local professional musicians as participants. We joke, give insights and share stories about our over 4 decades of experience in the music profession.
on DRUMS, with John Simeone
Revisiting Rhythms: Matt Miller's Drumming Journey from Family Legacy to Modern Melodies
Reuniting with my old friend Matt Miller after over two decades was like stepping back into our shared musical past. Matt, son of the legendary drummer Al Miller, shares his journey from a childhood immersed in rhythm to navigating the vibrant music scenes of North Texas and New York. We explore whether musical talent truly runs in the family and how the pressures of performing young have shaped him. Matt's reflections on drumming as a form of expression reveal the complex motivations that drove him to pursue music, offering listeners both nostalgia and insight.
Our conversation takes you into the heart of a drummer's life, filled with challenges and triumphs. From balancing personal relationships with a demanding career to distinguishing oneself in a competitive field, Matt’s story is a testament to resilience. Listen to us unpack stories of band chemistry, the evolving landscape of live music, and the openness of the industry to amateurs. These tales from the road, including the legendary tour with Blood, Sweat and Tears, capture the essence of a musician's journey and the unique challenges faced along the way.
We wrap up with some lighter notes, sharing humorous anecdotes from the lively world of "Nome Sane?", a jazz band where humor meets harmony. Matt shares his amusing experiences on the road, like the etiquette of exchanging business cards on a gig, while also gearing up for an exciting performance at The Bitter End. The episode is a blend of laughter, reflection, and shared stories, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in the life and times of a dedicated musician. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just enjoy a good yarn, this episode promises to entertain and inspire.
Okay, here we are. This is episode 26 of On Drums. I'm John Simeone. I have my friend here today, matt Miller. Say hi, matt, hey John, hey, how you doing? Matt and I haven't seen each other in how long oh my God, it's a long time. Well, we always kind of talk. Haven't seen us each other.
Speaker 2:In how long? Oh my god, it's like a long time.
Speaker 1:Well, we always kind of talk, but we never see each other yeah, we've.
Speaker 2:We've talked through the years but yeah, it's been. I mean it's been over 20 years.
Speaker 1:So let me tell you my first memory of you. You ready for this? Yeah, because I took lessons from your dad. I have his book right there. I have the the adam miller book. Cool, um, your dad was the guy, right, he was the guy on long island for teaching every single drummer I know it's true but I my first memory of you was I was taking lessons from your dad.
Speaker 1:And now, correct me if I'm wrong, if you see, if you remember this, how old are you? 59, you're okay, you're 59. I'm 63, so I'm four years older than you, so I'm like 15 and you're 11, right, okay, I come out. I would come out of my lesson and you and your brother I think your brother played too, right, sure, yeah, so I'd come out and you two little, and he's younger than you, yeah, two years young, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So I'd come out and you guys would be playing on the pads, like whipping my ass, like in the pads I think it was pads, it was some other thing and in the room next to where I, your dad, taught in the basement, right, you guys were playing and just like, and better than anything I could have ever played at 15, you know, you were 11, I was like this little bastard look at this guy going, and it was you and him that's my first memory.
Speaker 2:See, I don't really remember like playing with my brother, I don't think you were playing together.
Speaker 1:I think you were playing. You guys are just down here banging, but whatever you were banging sounded great. It was like really good. That's what I remember anyway. I was like just jealous, like you know. I guess that's the advantage to having a dad who plays like al miller, you know you're immersed in it but anyway, um so we were just talking earlier about um kind of the. Well, first of all, all give me your thing. What's your history here? Like, obviously you started because your dad was Al Miller, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, did you? Was that the reason that you started? Because of Al Miller?
Speaker 2:I mean he. I would always play for his students, like he would show me off, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:That was what my childhood was.
Speaker 2:I'd be upstairs and he'd say come on down, play for my students. And so it was. You know, it was a very I don't know what the right word for it would be, but it was sort of like, you know, based on ego. Not based on ego, but like my I. I think it was more that. I mean, I don't know it was it was, I guess, both of our egos your dad and you yeah, I mean he was a proud dad.
Speaker 2:I mean he was a proud dad and I. But the thing is I I learned to, I was driven to play the drums because he would show me off and I so like when I look back on it at my age, like I feel like that's, like it's almost unfortunate, because I didn't. I kind of got into drumming for maybe the wrong reasons. I got into drumming to impress people. Oh, so you didn't have like a natural attraction to the drums.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I mean Iming to impress people. Oh, so you didn't have like a natural attraction?
Speaker 2:to the drums in general? I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean I must have, but you grew up around it so you weren't sure, I guess right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, talking about this is just making me think about that, that aspect of it. It's like, you know, I grew up showing off at a very, very young age, which sort of made, I think, made things much more difficult for me in my older years, because I, you know, I didn't want to learn how to read until I was much older.
Speaker 1:I think that's every kid drummer.
Speaker 2:I guess they just want to play. Yeah, it's funny because I haven't thought about that. I'm pontificating now, but I haven't thought about that part of my childhood like having him show me off to his students. And I'm thinking about it now and it just seems like, wow, that's kind of messed up.
Speaker 1:Well, see, I see it a different way. I see it as because my dad used to make me do that too, and drums are a weird instrument to show off because they'd say, hey, play drums for Uncle Betty or whatever, uncle Billy, whoever, and then he'd sit there and play drums with no music. It was weird, it's. And then he'd sit there and play drums with no music. You know it was weird. You know it's a weird drum, it's a weird instrument to say show off. You know, if they play piano or something, I could say they could play a song and I used to do that too and I always felt weird about it.
Speaker 1:But I didn't take it. I took it as just because my dad was, you know, proud of you, know, whatever, and your dad obviously saw something in you, because if you sucked you wouldn't have said hey, check out my son, right, right, you had. It's weird, I guess that's. Is that a, I wonder? Is that genetic? Because you're a phenomenal drummer and so was your dad. I mean, I wonder how that?
Speaker 2:works, I think. I mean, I think I just always was around it and always listening. One thing I could say is I always loved like listening to buddy rich, like I grew up like picture picture buddy rich. I grew up amazed by him and and I knew all his records and I played to all his records from a very young age, so that's right, because your dad was a swing guy.
Speaker 2:Right, he was a swing drummer, big band drummer, yeah so that's how I started and that's all I listened to, like I, I suddenly, at seventh and seventh grade, was exposed to steve gadd. You know it was. It was buddy rich all all up until then, yeah. And then I heard well, first I heard don famularo, oh, and I was like what the hell is this?
Speaker 1:What is that?
Speaker 2:And then Steve Gadd.
Speaker 1:Right, well, who's a different? That's a different. Elephant man, that's a different thing, right there.
Speaker 2:You know it was all of a sudden. It was about, you know, a bigger drum set and a funkier sound, and you know Skip Scott, I do know that man He'd be a great person to get in here and do it. He's been around, for he's great. Skip is a jazz drummer and he introduced me. He turned me on to Steve Gadd, so, no wait. So you were. How old? Well, seventh grade, seventh grade. So that's what? 12? That's no, I think it's yeah, 12, 13 years old.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so okay. So I got your beat on that, because that means if you were 12 and were turned on to Steve Gadd, I did not hear, I did not know who Steve Gadd was until college. Uh-huh, those guys, joel and Dave, are the ones that I was like who I had no idea. Yeah, I had no idea, and that was you know. So I was two years after that. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:I was at a bar mitzvah, A bar mitzvah and Skip was the drummer and they were hanging out in front and I guess Greg, Greg Rockman, introduced me he was the bar mitzvah boy introduced me to his drummer. Oh, you were a guest at the bar mitzvah, yeah, and we were talking about drums and he goes. You hear that it was the Friends album.
Speaker 1:Chick Corea Friends.
Speaker 2:Chick Corea. Yeah, and Mad Hatter, and he played it for me and I. I remember the feeling. It was overwhelming. Yeah, it was from another planet and it was so beautiful, as you know.
Speaker 1:Yep, that's a special record, you know see, there's a guy who encompasses great drumming, not just technically but like encompasses great drumming not just technically but musically. He's such a musical player man. And some guys miss that, they miss that whole playing for the music type thing.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what he's I guess you'd say Steve Gadd's all about. He's serving the music.
Speaker 1:Serving the music. That's how he plays.
Speaker 2:That's where his head is, and he's got these beautifully clean, uh, chops right, that's the uh marching drum stuff. Yeah, so it was a beautiful combination of you know, he was a real musician, yep who, who had a technique right, you know. You know I I heard a.
Speaker 1:I heard an interview with dave like I would actually dom family line interview. Dave must have been 10 years ago and I listened to the whole thing. I never listened to those things, but dave said one thing that I totally agree with him. We always saw eye to eye with this. He said um, I didn't choose drums, drums chose me you know, like it's, it's and that's.
Speaker 1:That's the kind of the thing you know. For a lot of people it's like you have no choice. You know you're, you're doing what it whatever it is you're calling is musically. You're doing that. You have no choice, you got you got to go where?
Speaker 2:where you, you know where your heart is, I guess, right, I mean that's and that's steve gadd, like he, just he emulates the perfect musicianship.
Speaker 1:Yep, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And if you, watch the old steve gadd, like with chuck mancione. There's new clips that have come out. Have you seen?
Speaker 1:them. He's playing with Tony Levin, yeah, that was like the Blues Brothers band, or was it? Those guys were in it, the oh not Blues Brothers Paul Simon.
Speaker 2:Well, this is before that Paul Simon's thing with Richard T and Eric Gale. That was 81. Was it 81? This thing with Tony Levin and Chuck is like 70s. It's before Chick met him, before 77. My Spanish heart and friends that's 77, 78. But this stuff is 75, maybe 75.
Speaker 1:And Steve Gadd has just giant hair, giant afro, yeah.
Speaker 2:Cleanly shaven and a little small Gretsch drum set. Giant afro. Yeah, cleanly shaven and a little small gretch drum set, and you and he was. His style was as chick would would would talk about. His style was very different before they met, when steve gad I mean chick career talks about when when he met steve he was like, yeah, steve was great, but he had an old style.
Speaker 1:He had an old you hear chick.
Speaker 2:It's very interesting. And then my guide went to a room for a couple of weeks and came out with this whole new drum set and a whole new sound. Well, this was definitely before that and you hear him playing and he's got this incredible passion. Yeah, you can really see, it's like a nice side of for people who know who Steveve gatt is, it's a nice side of him to see before all that. Yeah, before he he got the bigger drum set and the darker symbol. The symbols were kind of dark but like he had this real traditional tony williams way of of playing right, right.
Speaker 1:I actually like the way, I love the way steve get plays swing it's you know he swings. Well, I mean, you know he, he's pretty flawless, but anyway, let's get back to Matt Miller. So did you go to school? I mean, so you graduated high school, you're just playing, you're just doing gigs Like where'd you?
Speaker 2:go. Yeah, I went to. Well, I went to North Texas, oh you went to North Texas. Yeah, I went for a semester. I got a scholarship I got a full scholarship to Miami, berkeley and North Texas. I went to North Texas and I went for a semester and I just, I don't know you, didn't like it. It was a lot of things. You know, I had a girlfriend who, like I, couldn't be away. You know, like I said, I have issues.
Speaker 1:you know? No, every guy in college has the same issue. It's a girl. There's some girl messing with you, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I came back and then, you know, I also realized that like there was so much happening in New York and I think I had subbed for Blood Sweat Tears pretty early, like I don't know. I have to think about this, but it was soon after college and I'm like I'm going to, you know, stick around here and see. You know, in the city, you mean yeah.
Speaker 1:In New York.
Speaker 2:Try to make things happen in New York and you know, I guess. A couple of years later I auditioned for Blood Sweat and Tears and and I played with them for a year.
Speaker 1:That was a great memory and so how old were you then?
Speaker 2:uh, so boy, I should know the answer well, I mean approximately, you don't have to isn't my 20, you know my early 20s okay so what, see?
Speaker 1:but that kind of was what separates you from I don't want to say the wrong thing here. You are in a different demograph than a lot of the guys, the local guys, I would say, let's say the local guys, whatever. There's a million drummers in New York and on my own right, but you're one of those guys. How do I put this? It's like when I hear certain things from a drummer especially from a drummer, because I'm a drummer it starts to sound. It sounds real to me, like I hear like oh, that's okay, that's real, you know what I mean. And then I hear you know some other stuff that's like I know is not real you know what?
Speaker 1:I mean, but real enough to get over on whatever gig that guy's on. So you're one of those guys to me who's, I guess I'd say, a real player, drummer player. And I'll tell you this I hate all fucking drummers man. I hate them all, even myself. I hate myself, but I'm being funny myself. I hate myself, but you know, but I don't. You know, I don't.
Speaker 2:I'm being funny, but I don't, um, I I get annoyed by the like, the drummer mentality of of most. I hear you, it's funny. I like I want to butt in and say something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember our conversations years ago when we were hanging out you, we, we did a some showcase club date, showcase together oh, yeah, probably I just remember hanging with you and and what I remember about it is you knew, joel, yeah, and you were about music like you, like I related to you because we were drummers that talked about music, right, like that's kind of what you're talking and what you're what you're going for yeah, like we Like. I've considered myself a musician first.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:And I always thought of that, about you, and that's and you talked about. You know the way we shared music together.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I hear you.
Speaker 1:See, and here's my problem and you're probably better at this than I am Like I can't I become a different player in different situations. Like I can't. I cannot play Like a really great. This is what I said in the last podcast. I think a really great drummer can just play great, no matter who's playing with him, but I can't. I fall to that If what's going on around me is not gelling in my brain, I collapse. You know what I mean. Like I'm completely motivated and always play at my best when there's someone or something in the band that's kind of pulling me along. You know what I mean. I'm hooking on to.
Speaker 2:I hear you, I totally hear you, and the reason I say I hear you like that is because I recently did a recording session for you know, friends of mine Already, that's good, yeah, and and you know they weren't experienced musicians. And you have to right, you have to play well you have to play, but you have all these people pulling on you because their time isn't? They have no experience right yeah, so I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:That's where, that's where you, that's where the click track comes in and it's like, oh, it's like the saving grace, you know but even yeah, right, and I and see, and those and those people tend to gravitate to each other and they take the work away from the people. Who, who can play? I think you know I've, you know, I used to be in 1980. It'd go into a bar where any bar anywhere and the band was great. It was all guys you knew, right, yeah. And now now you go in and it's like some guy who's an accountant doing it on the weekends yeah what, what?
Speaker 1:this is what I always say. We podcast also. What other profession does that happen in, if you're, let's say, a teacher? Let's, I was a teacher and somebody said to me oh well, you're a teacher, I you know, I do that on weekends, man, I teach I have a I have a great book and I go out on weekends and I do some teaching that nobody. There's no other profession where you can infringe like that right. But if you go to sam asham by guitar, you're a guitar player.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they'll also do gigs for, like for two dollars.
Speaker 1:Right, that's the other thing and we can't get arrested you know when left Club Dates and I started doing clubs with whatever band it was, I was floored by the pay. I was like, wow, I cannot believe that this is 2023, and I'm getting paid what I got paid in 1980.
Speaker 2:I remember Jim Pinn band 1988, 89, $75 to $100 a night, but that's what we're getting now.
Speaker 1:We're getting that now. Yeah, yeah, how is that? It's like no respect for the industry. I don't know. I don't know what it is. This is what pisses me off. That's why I'm doing the podcast.
Speaker 2:That's why you're like this is, you know, dark. Yeah, like things have changed and you know, I hopefully have another 25, 30 years of a creative life ahead of me. I have to figure out how not to be dark.
Speaker 1:It's hard. It's hard, I'm with you on that, because I it takes everything I have to not to not let that spill over, you know.
Speaker 2:I up until like I was saying to you before, up until a year ago. It was dark a year ago, but I still got up and had the desire to practice and work on something I've always been like. I like the. I have a beautiful instrument. I play, you know, ruckus drums. Those are great drums. I'm very excited about them and I, you know, would still wake up with that, like the childlike you know, belief in magic kind of thing. Where I just want to play my instrument and create.
Speaker 2:That's cool man, but that stopped a year ago. Like I want to play my instrument and create that's cool man, but that stopped a year ago. Like I want to get that back.
Speaker 1:I mean it just stopped.
Speaker 2:I just got dark things in life. I started, you know, not for one reason, just you know life changed.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, that affects everybody. Everybody plays their personality too. I'm convinced of that. Whomever you play with, they are playing who they are. Yeah, you know. So if there's somebody who always rushes, they're like hyperactive or they're you know. If somebody's in a bad place, they play. It affects their playing, I think yeah, because it's coming out. It's coming out of your out of your body.
Speaker 2:Your playing, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's the way I've kind of always felt. You know that there are certain people who everybody I play with. If I get to know them in the band, you know their playing is who they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's true, so I'm sure you're going to get it back, man? I think so. You know, it's funny. My dear dear friend Frank Bellucci posted something the other day.
Speaker 2:What Facebook you mean, yeah, it was just this thing out of stick control exercise where you would play an ostinato with your feet in this case it was a clave the left foot's playing clave, the high is playing clave, the bass is playing the tombow, and on top of that you just go through stick and trill. You start with right, left, right, left, right, left, then left, right, left, right, then right, right, left, left, and you know, first of all, he's so beautiful, I mean he's, you know, frank, yeah, he's a master at that. And so I have something to practice now.
Speaker 2:So, I kind of woke up yesterday and I got down on the drums and I started and realized that, wow, this is not easy. This is, this is another part of my brain. So, like I kind of have that little bug, a little spark, like I'm gonna, I'm gonna this week, I'm gonna my phone's ringing, I'm gonna uh, I'm gonna start with that, you know yeah, I'm gonna.
Speaker 1:I I mean, when I go, when I get out of here and I go to Joel's, I always come back with an inspiration like to get moving again, because I always hear stuff I haven't never heard before. You've always been inspired by Joel.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Joel, I would say, is probably my best friend at this point. You know we've known each other like 42 years, so cool.
Speaker 2:You know, when I hung out with you, I was studying with Joel. Oh, you were studying with Joel. That's how long ago that was Wow. Maybe it was after.
Speaker 1:I studied with him.
Speaker 2:So what house was that? Because that's probably three houses. It was near Weckl, near Dave.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's in Mamaroneck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we used to take Joel and I used to get in Dave Weckl's.
Speaker 1:Porsche, Porsche. So me too, Because Dave was away, so you know.
Speaker 2:Dave was away, so the car has to be driven Right, so we would drive, and Joel was a great driver and we would be flying.
Speaker 1:I remember being pinned. I remember being pinned in that car, pinned to the back seat, because he was going so fast. It was amazing.
Speaker 2:I didn't like it. No, it's a very you know, it makes sense to be scared in the car when you're going.
Speaker 1:I don't, how do I know how Joel was a Porsche? I mean, you know it's a great drummer, but who knows about driving Anyway? So so you, you, basically you've been a player for your whole life, right?
Speaker 2:you've been relying on gigs for you for your whole existence.
Speaker 1:I've ever done yeah, yeah but I mean, that's a good thing every you know covid.
Speaker 2:Oh, covid changed everything for me. I always say this it's like it's anybody who knows me, they're like here. He says it again it's like I. I would say I'm a full-time musician. That's all I've ever done. I always have have $300 in my pocket. I don't owe anybody any money. I pay all my bills. I've managed. But ever since COVID, it's different. It changed, covid changed. Yeah, it's not like that anymore. So I have to fight, right.
Speaker 1:For gigs.
Speaker 2:I have to make sure I get on the phone and, and you know, it's just, it's, everything's changed.
Speaker 1:It's part of my darkness yeah, you know, yeah, no, I, uh, covid, definitely did. I mean a lot of my friends who were in dire straits because, that's, they relied on gigs. You know, they were doing those gofundmes on on facebook where they would play and they'd send them money. And you, a lot of people, did that, because what else were you going to do? I mean, the only way we played, the only way I played, was doing those videos. I did some videos with Billy Heller and some other people, but that wasn't for pay, that was just to play, right, you know. But so what's some of the gigs you've had? I know you said you auditioned for uh, blood, sweat and Tears, right, and so what was some of the gigs you've had after that?
Speaker 2:Well, I, you know, I that was like the gig that I like, the pro gig that I can. You know people who?
Speaker 1:Who can understand what it is? Who?
Speaker 2:know who, blood Sweat and Tears is like my first famous, you know person famous you know person, but I did a.
Speaker 2:I did some traveling with Stevie Cochran. If you know, that was my maybe that was first time I went overseas. I went to to Switzerland and we did Italy and that was a wild experience that a few times did my church as festival and I also toured with a band called the healers. This was in 2009, 10, 11, 12. And we toured all over europe with this band called the healers was thomas buck, nasty and the healers, and he was this unbelievable, beautiful black singer with a voice. He would sing songs without his microphone.
Speaker 2:It's like a gimmicky thing, he just had this amazing thing about him People loved him. Was it an R&B gig? Yeah, it was power blues like blues and R& almost like gospel, or I mean yeah, a pretty decent mix of things. Yes and um, it was with my dear friend dean zuccaro, who I used to play in a band called major domo with in the 80s that sounds familiar to me.
Speaker 1:Major domo was that. Was that around here?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, long island thing, and for years he's been asking me, you know, because he moved to Europe, you know he's a self-made guy, he really you know a lot of respect for Dean and he, you know, finally, you know, he asked me again to go, you know, with him on the road and I said I had just gotten divorced, I had just gotten very sick and recovered and divorced, and I was like, yes, I'll go on the road.
Speaker 1:And when was that? What was that?
Speaker 2:Well, I got sick in 2006. And so 2008 is when we I think when we first went out.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't know, you got sick. I don't know what that means. Well, I got lymphoma.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that. I had non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and then it went away after a year of fighting and then it came back as, like they called it, a gray zone lymphoma and then they called it Hodgkin's lymphoma Hodgkin's lymphoma. It's a long story. I actually wrote about it. I had this long thank you letter for all the people that helped me and I ended up describing the scenario. But you beat it. Yeah, yeah, I ended up with a stem cell transplant. Oh wow, Matt I had no idea.
Speaker 1:man, See you, and I don't keep in touch enough?
Speaker 2:No, that's going to change. Yeah, definitely going to change. Keep in touch enough. No, that's gonna change. Yeah, definitely gonna change. Um, so you know. So, with all that, I was like, yes, I'm gonna go on the road I'm. I've always wanted to travel, yeah, and it turned out to be unbelievable yeah, so that's what everybody says who travels playing music is.
Speaker 2:It is an unbelievable experience, and and they and the band that I happened to be in was loved by you know, they had been out there before. And then I'm like, here I am, I'm in Gijon, spain, gijon, and you look in the audience and you see, you know 800 people singing the lyrics to our original song yeah, see, there's something to be said for that right, it's incredible, it's very inspiring and you're up there and you're doing your thing right.
Speaker 1:you're demonstrating your art and people appreciate it incredible that is a thing, man, that's that's part of the reason why we do this nonsense right, and a lot of times people go to europe for that reason yes you know it's.
Speaker 2:I think it's harder here in new york, it is harder in new york people.
Speaker 1:I think people in in europe are much more, I don't know, cultured, you know, in music, and well-versed.
Speaker 2:Maybe. Yeah, I don't really know why that is, but you know, I mean I think that even like in the 50s, 60s I mean I sound like an idiot because I but I know that was a lot there was a scene out there for jazz. So I don't know if, if it's, you know, if it's just appreciated, if the culture is appreciated more out there than it is here, but or maybe just that's what I think it is.
Speaker 1:I really think that there's just I don't know. They're different, they're a different culture. You know, we're new yorkers. I mean, new york, especially, is like I don't know who knows at this point. Um, what was I going to ask you what? Um, so you're so, you were doing that, and then, and then what, what happened after that? That road?
Speaker 2:kick. So the healers was uh, from 2008 to like 11, 12. I came back and just worked here, just like local stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because the club dates situation is totally different now. I don't even know what it is now.
Speaker 2:I got into the Jewish Orthodox end of club dates.
Speaker 1:Do they have a lot of work Because nobody else does.
Speaker 2:Well, here's the thing Now I got into that in 92, the Jewish Orthodox thing 92? Yeah, I got into that, you know. And then I, you know, got blood, sweat and tears and then I went on the road. So I've been doing this all along, and in 92 to like 2000,. I was doing I don't know 200 jobs a year. Sure, Yep, it was Jewish Orthodox. So it's a lot of times double Sunday, Right, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
Speaker 1:Club dates Yep.
Speaker 2:Never on a Friday, and maybe two or three Saturday nights. Wow, a year.
Speaker 1:And were they always 10 to 2? Was that the like? They always like the really late gigs.
Speaker 2:Well, no, I mean that would happen on a Saturday because of the Sabbath Right. Oh, so that's why, okay, that's why yeah, so you can't. You know you can't drive until after sundown, after sunset, right, but that's why they get married during the week Because of the Sabbath Right.
Speaker 1:They're getting married Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, yeah so 1992, I was in Gus's band and I was doing 130 or so, with no showcases, right, we were just giving them here. Show up to this, these places where you're playing, and they can't.
Speaker 2:they carried the drums I mean, it was a great guy, you had a roadies and everything.
Speaker 1:I didn't he had him, you know, and and it was just such a good, good gig it was, I would say, out of 120 gigs, 130 gigs a year, I would say 10 were check the rest was like a buy, like you're seeing, like 300 buy-in, like you're saying, like $300 in your pocket. You could say, hey, that's wads of money at the end of the week and you couldn't. How do you not do that? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:With no showcases and no like it is today, where they give you 20 songs to learn every weekend. You just go and play the stuff. Every weekend you play the same stuff.
Speaker 2:Definitely.
Speaker 1:You know, in the 90s you could get away with that.
Speaker 2:It's different now.
Speaker 1:Now, it's like here's the list for the weekend. Like the list. What's the list?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just back to the Jewish thing. So back then, so in 92, I was, however old, I was in my 20s there were the guys who were in their 50s and 60s still doing 100 jobs a year. So I figured who wants to be doing club dates? But I complained about them, but I always knew they'd be there. It was always the fallback thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 2:But now it's not that way anymore. Even that business has changed. I've aged out. But now it's not that way anymore. Even that business has changed. Yep, I've aged out. The bands that are busy are young guys.
Speaker 1:Did you ever hear the thing that you know? Terry Negrelli did this podcast. Did you hear what he said about that? Let me hear it there's four stages in a musician's life. So the first stage is I'm going to use your name in this thing. First stage is who the fuck is Matt Miller? The second stage is we've got to get Matt Miller. The third stage is we need a young Matt Miller. And the fourth stage is who the fuck is Matt.
Speaker 1:Miller, that's right, it really is, and you know what? It's funny, but it is so true man, it's very sad. It really is sad. It's a sad.
Speaker 2:It's very sad. It really is sad. It's a sad, it's true, and I was a busy. You know the Jewish. It's a certain culture where they don't Everybody knows each other, they don't mingle with people really outside of their circle, so for them to see a technically proficient drummer was unusual. So I had like people around the bandstand like watching me. It was a very unusual thing. So what's my point? So, like to me, I got used to that, Like I was kind of a famous you know I was that's unusual man.
Speaker 1:I got to tell you that because most of my recollection from Club Dates was being ignored.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this was different. The Jewish Orthodox thing was very different From what I was told people would. There was me and Matt Hill. Matt Hill was the other drummer who was very famous in the Jewish world and people I was told would book their weddings around our availability Get out of here.
Speaker 1:I have never, ever heard that ever. Every situation I've been in is like those guys are in the back. It doesn't matter if you get fired, you're the ones that get fired. The drummer gets fired, the bass player gets fired. Much different in this?
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I have never heard of that. I had a hundred people around Matt Hill, especially because he and Animal from the Muppets, you know he was a good drummer, good musician Matt Hill.
Speaker 1:So he was a rock drummer but he plays.
Speaker 2:He's kind of like a crazy face. His cymbals were way up in the air and people would just crowd around him.
Speaker 1:You floor me with that man. I gotta tell you I have never in my life heard of not being ignored on a club date.
Speaker 2:Go on YouTube and put in. Even you see me too. But Matt Hill, he was. He do a at the end of the first dance set. He'll do like a five minute drum solo and this people, matt Hill, drum solo. You'll see look in the audience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you'll see it. That's funny, but that's again.
Speaker 2:This is 20, 30 years ago.
Speaker 1:So okay, so then where does that put us? Like you were doing the Jewish circuit. And then what?
Speaker 2:Still doing it, but now it's just oh, they don't have work either, oh no.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:The work has gone to the younger guys and where in the American?
Speaker 1:field, but why I don't get the what's like. I don't get the younger. I get it with the singers and stuff, but with drummers. Drummers can age out. I didn't even know that, yeah it's.
Speaker 2:They want a young band, really, yeah, so in the American wedding business the DJ kind of killed us In the Jewish Orthodox world. It's the one-man band that ruined everything. So one guy, a keyboard player, will go up. You know he can hire a percussionist or hire a guitar player, but he'll do the whole wedding by himself. Yeah, so that became very dominant People. You know a fraction of the price, you know. So that became a big thing and for whatever reason it's, uh, it's becoming a younger, a younger thing yeah, and that is that kind of like.
Speaker 1:speaks to our point about music being well, music visual. Now I mean it should. It should never be visual. Used to be like great was great, doesn't matter what you look like. Now you got've got to be young. You've got to look young, not necessarily play as well. Just look the part Right, that bothers the shit out of me.
Speaker 2:I've got to tell you, man, that really irks me, that's what I was told In the Jewish Orthodox world there's a bunch of rehearsed set young bands and it's half the amount of work, half the amount of work. Nagina orchestras, who I worked with. They'd be 15 weddings a night, 15 bands, 15 bands that Shelly Lang Nagina would have to contract out, and now it's just not like that. I think there's less volume as well.
Speaker 1:Wow, what was I going to ask you? So what is that? So you were with them from 1 to 1. You said 92 to 2000?
Speaker 2:92 to 2000. I was very busy. I've been with the Jewish I mean, I'm not with Nagina anymore, they kind of broke up but I've been doing the Orthodox thing. Still. I'm working this Sunday. But it's like four or five a month now.
Speaker 1:But that's still good, Matt. I mean it's like four or five a month now. But that's still good, Matt. I mean that's four or five a month, it depends.
Speaker 2:Some months are one or two. In fact, this month is February.
Speaker 1:Those are well-paying gigs. Yeah, they pay you the way they should pay you. Right, exactly. Everybody's got their price right. I know I do.
Speaker 1:That's what kept me in the business for so long. You know, what I did was I kind of like took myself out of everything else. I was so busy doing club dates. Nobody called me for anything else. I never did any original projects Because I was always busy and then it abruptly ends and nobody knows who you are anymore. Yeah, so I'm I'm really happy to be doing the stuff I'm doing now with dave siegel and um with that, with kenny and those guys.
Speaker 1:you know it's it's just here and there and it's it's good players and stuff that's good um so, um, when you sort of transitioned out of that, well, it kind of you said it kind of like, it kind of like fizzled a little bit, like it, just you didn't really abruptly leave that. Right, the orthodox yeah yeah, it just changed.
Speaker 2:I mean, when I got sick, I stopped completely, but then I came back into it and got busy again. It had changed. At that point, though I wasn't as busy, and over the so, from 2008 till now, it's just gotten, you know, slower and slower, slower and slower. Yeah, I've always maintained original bands. You know I play with a few different original bands. I've always You're doing Paul Atherton for a while, right, Paul Atherton yeah, I did that for a lot.
Speaker 1:I saw one of those gigs A lot of years.
Speaker 2:yeah, that was a good gig.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Interplay, yeah, yeah, right, Interplay, right. And Teddy Kumpel too right. What was the thing you?
Speaker 2:You're doing something with Teddy right now, aren't you? Yeah, gnome Sane, right, gnome Sane, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So what's that? Looks fun. Teddy's hilarious.
Speaker 2:It's a great, is it?
Speaker 1:a serious band. Because the little advertisements I see on Facebook look like it's just funny. Because well at first it was called Gnome Saiyan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, gnome Saiyan right S-A-N-E with a question mark Right Gnome Saiyan. But it's a very serious band. We play every Tuesday, no matter what, where do you play? We rehearse on Tuesdays. Oh, you rehearse on to every tuesday, no matter what and um. We play in new york. We play at the bitter end. We have a you know a few a month. We want to do a lot more. You know, we're hoping that we can start doing jazz festivals soon. We're working on a third record.
Speaker 1:Um should be out soon um, is it, it's a what's it? Uh, is it swing or what is it what?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I was talking to Bob about that. I don't know what you'd call it.
Speaker 1:Now it's a trio. Yeah, so it's. Teddy Bob is the guy.
Speaker 2:Bob's the bass player Right and me, and it's like very harmonic, very dynamic, fusion-y music. There's some lyrics, so it's very funny stuff.
Speaker 1:It seems like there's some funny stuff in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot of humor in the band. It's really great. I don't even know how to describe it yeah. But it's, you know, tuesday is my day to really just be creative and and play, and play.
Speaker 1:That's what it's about, right, like it's interacting with other human beings on instruments. Yeah, I mean, that really is what everybody does this stuff for. It's funny. When I was going to college, I had a weird kind of like idea about musicians, like I always thought. I thought when I was going, when I went to college, that this music was some kind of like you know, you choose it, like you would choose being an accountant, you know. I thought you know, if a person like I'd see all these musicians who weren't doing well because they had to rely on gigs and I'd say, well, just get a job, in my mind I would say, you just get a job. But it's really, you can't. You can't just do something else. You're kind of like strapped in. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:True, I wanted to ask you about if you well, I mean, we all had these before, but you know you were the guy if you have a funny story. I was going to ask if you have any funny stories. But you, I heard a story that you told about a certain club date leader who counted off a tune a certain way. Oh, yeah, and that's going on 25 years or something. I keep repeating that story. Well, I think I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:Well, is it Sal Herman? Yeah, yes, that's the one.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's, I really owe him a phone call.
Speaker 1:He's a beautiful, beautiful guy yeah, oh, he's still around, huh.
Speaker 2:Sure Wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sal's got to be in his 80s right, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, that's hard to. I can't even believe that, but that's probably right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I mean I was 30-something and he must have been 50-ish.
Speaker 2:I think Bossa Nova, any key. One, two brushes would be nice. No, I didn't hear the two. One, two brushes would be nice.
Speaker 1:Three I didn't hear.
Speaker 2:Bing over any key. I never heard that one.
Speaker 1:That is hilarious. Man that's going to stick with me now Bossing over any key. That's great.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, he was the best, he is the best. I'm going to call him.
Speaker 1:I remember being on a gig with Dave Siegel on Saul's gig, and I just met Dave that night and after the gig Dave turned to me and said hey, man, you got a card Back in the day, did you have a card? Give me a card and we exchanged cards and we got yelled at. So I was like don't exchange cards on a bandstand.
Speaker 1:Because it looks like we just met, which we did, you know, and I I didn't. I was like what, what's going on? Man, I always take, give out my card. I never got yelled at before you got any, uh any other, uh funny uh, oh, there's so many.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's so many there are uh sure I do um, there's always club dates that were funny I have some tasteless stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh, tasteless is good, we like tasteless.
Speaker 2:No, I can't tell you that. Okay, all right, it involves another musician who shouldn't have done what he did. Oh, okay, well. Well, I mean, I don't know, this is not that funny, but for me it was very memorable. I was out with Stevie Cochran in. This was macho, this was uh, macho jazz.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this was in switzerland and we stayed in this beautiful villa and um and uh, it's just, it's not that funny, but it's just a memory. When people think like it's not that funny, but it's just a memory. When people think like you know, want to hear stories of being on the road and it was like a big villa. Upstairs it was like three floors that connected with each other and the people who owned the place weren't really that nice. She was kind of like we just did.
Speaker 1:They owned the villa.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we didn't like this, just rub us wrong. They rubbed us wrong something about them. I don't really remember what it was, but we ended up, you know, this night we partied the whole day, we were pretty bummed and we and we ended up completely rearranging the furniture like completely, like we actually pulled the couch into another room, just completely arranged.
Speaker 1:That's great, yeah that is great man. Yeah, that was funny we always have those stories where you know somebody dies on the gig. You know, yeah, I've heard that yeah, a fight breaks out, yep yep, I remember doing.
Speaker 1:You know the days where you do club dates and then in every other room your friends were on club days yeah, huntington townhouse right so we were doing, I was doing a club date I forget where it was and it was new year's eve and we were playing and I met my friends, were next door, and a giant fight, fist fight, broke out, the whole place, right, and so we, we took a break right, started playing again, and then the other band came over to watch us and they said, hey, why don't you guys come? You know, the drummer knew me, whatever, play in our room for a minute. So we go and we play in their room. We go, we sit on their game and play one song and another fight breaks out in that room go, fight breaks these guys missed two fights and we had, we had two fights.
Speaker 1:That's yeah, yeah. And then you know the ones where the guy dies and, like you, gotta, you can't cancel the wedding. You just paid 25 000 for a wedding and the guy's grandpa died. He's gonna keep going, you know, you just throw a blanket on him and wait for the car and you know that that should happen.
Speaker 2:Man, I remember that distinctly yeah, I, I never attended a wedding with sweaty died yeah, it's, it's I don't know.
Speaker 1:I hate when that happens especially if you, especially who wants to die, imagine dying at a wedding like I want that someplace nice, you know, jeez, what, uh, what, what do you? What's uh, what's your thing? Now, man, what's your, what's your mainstay?
Speaker 2:well, mean, I'm in a few bands that I really enjoy. It's a bit of a hiatus now, but playing with Bob Gallo and George Panos.
Speaker 1:Oh cool.
Speaker 2:And you know playing Bob's music Bob is great Bob used to be in a band called Eclipse and I played with Eclipse. And so you know, and I played with Eclipse and I played with Bob on and off throughout the years, but now for the last couple of years we were rehearsing every week. We have to get back to it so that I'm playing in a really good band, my friend John Carey It's- called John Carey and the Big. Juicy is the name of the band we're playing up.
Speaker 2:We're coming towards the end here Saturday night, bitter End, 10 o'clock, john Carrie and the Big Juicy.
Speaker 1:That's what you're playing Saturday night. Bitter End, Bitter End. Saturday night. What's the date?
Speaker 2:Jesus the 15th right 15th. Yeah, I believe so. Yep the 15th right 15th. Yeah, I believe so. Yep, the 15th.
Speaker 1:All right, well, thanks, that was nice. That was a good time, matt. Thanks for coming in. You did a great job. We're going to hang out.
Speaker 2:Thank you, john, that sounds good to me, matt.
Speaker 1:Miller Bye buddy.
