on DRUMS, with John Simeone
This is a local Long Island Podcast given by a veteran drummer on the Long Island music scene. We have a variety of local professional musicians as participants. We joke, give insights and share stories about our over 4 decades of experience in the music profession.
on DRUMS, with John Simeone
Revisiting Rhythms: Matt Miller's Drumming Journey from Family Legacy to Modern Melodies
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Reuniting with my old friend Matt Miller after over two decades was like stepping back into our shared musical past. Matt, son of the legendary drummer Al Miller, shares his journey from a childhood immersed in rhythm to navigating the vibrant music scenes of North Texas and New York. We explore whether musical talent truly runs in the family and how the pressures of performing young have shaped him. Matt's reflections on drumming as a form of expression reveal the complex motivations that drove him to pursue music, offering listeners both nostalgia and insight.
Our conversation takes you into the heart of a drummer's life, filled with challenges and triumphs. From balancing personal relationships with a demanding career to distinguishing oneself in a competitive field, Matt’s story is a testament to resilience. Listen to us unpack stories of band chemistry, the evolving landscape of live music, and the openness of the industry to amateurs. These tales from the road, including the legendary tour with Blood, Sweat and Tears, capture the essence of a musician's journey and the unique challenges faced along the way.
We wrap up with some lighter notes, sharing humorous anecdotes from the lively world of "Nome Sane?", a jazz band where humor meets harmony. Matt shares his amusing experiences on the road, like the etiquette of exchanging business cards on a gig, while also gearing up for an exciting performance at The Bitter End. The episode is a blend of laughter, reflection, and shared stories, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in the life and times of a dedicated musician. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just enjoy a good yarn, this episode promises to entertain and inspire.
Fatherhood and Drumming Influence
Speaker 1Okay , here we are . This is episode 26 of On Drums . I'm John Simeone . I have my friend here today , matt Miller . Say hi , matt , hey John , hey , how you doing ? Matt and I haven't seen each other in how long oh my God , it's a long time . Well , we always kind of talk . Haven't seen us each other .
Speaker 2In how long ? Oh my god , it's like a long time .
Speaker 1Well , we always kind of talk , but we never see each other yeah , we've .
Speaker 2We've talked through the years but yeah , it's been . I mean it's been over 20 years .
Speaker 1So let me tell you my first memory of you . You ready for this ? Yeah , because I took lessons from your dad . I have his book right there . I have the the adam miller book . Cool , um , your dad was the guy , right , he was the guy on long island for teaching every single drummer I know it's true but I my first memory of you was I was taking lessons from your dad .
Speaker 1And now , correct me if I'm wrong , if you see , if you remember this , how old are you ? 59 , you're okay , you're 59 . I'm 63 , so I'm four years older than you , so I'm like 15 and you're 11 , right , okay , I come out . I would come out of my lesson and you and your brother I think your brother played too , right , sure , yeah , so I'd come out and you two little , and he's younger than you , yeah , two years young , yeah , okay .
Speaker 1So I'd come out and you guys would be playing on the pads , like whipping my ass , like in the pads I think it was pads , it was some other thing and in the room next to where I , your dad , taught in the basement , right , you guys were playing and just like , and better than anything I could have ever played at 15 , you know , you were 11 , I was like this little bastard look at this guy going , and it was you and him that's my first memory .
Speaker 2See , I don't really remember like playing with my brother , I don't think you were playing together .
Speaker 1I think you were playing . You guys are just down here banging , but whatever you were banging sounded great . It was like really good . That's what I remember anyway . I was like just jealous , like you know . I guess that's the advantage to having a dad who plays like al miller , you know you're immersed in it but anyway , um so we were just talking earlier about um kind of the . Well , first of all , all give me your thing . What's your history here ? Like , obviously you started because your dad was Al Miller , right ?
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1I mean , did you ? Was that the reason that you started ? Because of Al Miller ?
Speaker 2I mean he . I would always play for his students , like he would show me off , that's what I'm saying .
Speaker 1That was what my childhood was .
Speaker 2I'd be upstairs and he'd say come on down , play for my students . And so it was . You know , it was a very I don't know what the right word for it would be , but it was sort of like , you know , based on ego . Not based on ego , but like my I . I think it was more that . I mean , I don't know it was it was , I guess , both of our egos your dad and you yeah , I mean he was a proud dad .
Speaker 2I mean he was a proud dad and I . But the thing is I I learned to , I was driven to play the drums because he would show me off and I so like when I look back on it at my age , like I feel like that's , like it's almost unfortunate , because I didn't . I kind of got into drumming for maybe the wrong reasons . I got into drumming to impress people . Oh , so you didn't have like a natural attraction to the drums .
Speaker 1I don't know , I mean Iming to impress people . Oh , so you didn't have like a natural attraction ?
Speaker 2to the drums in general ? I don't know .
Speaker 1I mean I must have , but you grew up around it so you weren't sure , I guess right .
Speaker 2Yeah , you know , talking about this is just making me think about that , that aspect of it . It's like , you know , I grew up showing off at a very , very young age , which sort of made , I think , made things much more difficult for me in my older years , because I , you know , I didn't want to learn how to read until I was much older .
Speaker 1I think that's every kid drummer .
Speaker 2I guess they just want to play . Yeah , it's funny because I haven't thought about that . I'm pontificating now , but I haven't thought about that part of my childhood like having him show me off to his students . And I'm thinking about it now and it just seems like , wow , that's kind of messed up .
Speaker 1Well , see , I see it a different way . I see it as because my dad used to make me do that too , and drums are a weird instrument to show off because they'd say , hey , play drums for Uncle Betty or whatever , uncle Billy , whoever , and then he'd sit there and play drums with no music . It was weird , it's . And then he'd sit there and play drums with no music . You know it was weird . You know it's a weird drum , it's a weird instrument to say show off . You know , if they play piano or something , I could say they could play a song and I used to do that too and I always felt weird about it .
Speaker 1But I didn't take it . I took it as just because my dad was , you know , proud of you , know , whatever , and your dad obviously saw something in you , because if you sucked you wouldn't have said hey , check out my son , right , right , you had . It's weird , I guess that's . Is that a , I wonder ? Is that genetic ? Because you're a phenomenal drummer and so was your dad . I mean , I wonder how that ?
Speaker 2works , I think . I mean , I think I just always was around it and always listening . One thing I could say is I always loved like listening to buddy rich , like I grew up like picture picture buddy rich . I grew up amazed by him and and I knew all his records and I played to all his records from a very young age , so that's right , because your dad was a swing guy .
Speaker 2Right , he was a swing drummer , big band drummer , yeah so that's how I started and that's all I listened to , like I , I suddenly , at seventh and seventh grade , was exposed to steve gadd . You know it was . It was buddy rich all all up until then , yeah . And then I heard well , first I heard don famularo , oh , and I was like what the hell is this ?
Speaker 1What is that ?
Speaker 2And then Steve Gadd .
Speaker 1Right , well , who's a different ? That's a different . Elephant man , that's a different thing , right there .
Speaker 2You know it was all of a sudden . It was about , you know , a bigger drum set and a funkier sound , and you know Skip Scott , I do know that man He'd be a great person to get in here and do it . He's been around , for he's great . Skip is a jazz drummer and he introduced me . He turned me on to Steve Gadd , so , no wait . So you were . How old ? Well , seventh grade , seventh grade . So that's what ? 12 ? That's no , I think it's yeah , 12 , 13 years old .
Speaker 1Yeah , so okay . So I got your beat on that , because that means if you were 12 and were turned on to Steve Gadd , I did not hear , I did not know who Steve Gadd was until college . Uh-huh , those guys , joel and Dave , are the ones that I was like who I had no idea . Yeah , I had no idea , and that was you know . So I was two years after that . Yeah , you know .
Speaker 2I was at a bar mitzvah , A bar mitzvah and Skip was the drummer and they were hanging out in front and I guess Greg , Greg Rockman , introduced me he was the bar mitzvah boy introduced me to his drummer . Oh , you were a guest at the bar mitzvah , yeah , and we were talking about drums and he goes . You hear that it was the Friends album .
Speaker 1Chick Corea Friends .
Speaker 2Chick Corea . Yeah , and Mad Hatter , and he played it for me and I . I remember the feeling . It was overwhelming . Yeah , it was from another planet and it was so beautiful , as you know .
Speaker 1Yep , that's a special record , you know see , there's a guy who encompasses great drumming , not just technically but like encompasses great drumming not just technically but musically . He's such a musical player man . And some guys miss that , they miss that whole playing for the music type thing .
Speaker 2Well , that's what he's I guess you'd say Steve Gadd's all about . He's serving the music .
Speaker 1Serving the music . That's how he plays .
Speaker 2That's where his head is , and he's got these beautifully clean , uh , chops right , that's the uh marching drum stuff . Yeah , so it was a beautiful combination of you know , he was a real musician , yep who , who had a technique right , you know . You know I I heard a .
Speaker 1I heard an interview with dave like I would actually dom family line interview . Dave must have been 10 years ago and I listened to the whole thing . I never listened to those things , but dave said one thing that I totally agree with him . We always saw eye to eye with this . He said um , I didn't choose drums , drums chose me you know , like it's , it's and that's .
Speaker 1That's the kind of the thing you know . For a lot of people it's like you have no choice . You know you're , you're doing what it whatever it is you're calling is musically . You're doing that . You have no choice , you got you got to go where ?
Speaker 2where you , you know where your heart is , I guess , right , I mean that's and that's steve gadd , like he , just he emulates the perfect musicianship .
Speaker 1Yep , you know what I mean .
Speaker 2And if you , watch the old steve gadd , like with chuck mancione . There's new clips that have come out . Have you seen ?
Speaker 1them . He's playing with Tony Levin , yeah , that was like the Blues Brothers band , or was it ? Those guys were in it , the oh not Blues Brothers Paul Simon .
Speaker 2Well , this is before that Paul Simon's thing with Richard T and Eric Gale . That was 81 . Was it 81 ? This thing with Tony Levin and Chuck is like 70s . It's before Chick met him , before 77 . My Spanish heart and friends that's 77 , 78 . But this stuff is 75 , maybe 75 .
Speaker 1And Steve Gadd has just giant hair , giant afro , yeah .
Speaker 2Cleanly shaven and a little small Gretsch drum set . Giant afro . Yeah , cleanly shaven and a little small gretch drum set , and you and he was . His style was as chick would would would talk about . His style was very different before they met , when steve gad I mean chick career talks about when when he met steve he was like , yeah , steve was great , but he had an old style .
Speaker 1He had an old you hear chick .
Speaker 2It's very interesting . And then my guide went to a room for a couple of weeks and came out with this whole new drum set and a whole new sound . Well , this was definitely before that and you hear him playing and he's got this incredible passion . Yeah , you can really see , it's like a nice side of for people who know who Steveve gatt is , it's a nice side of him to see before all that . Yeah , before he he got the bigger drum set and the darker symbol . The symbols were kind of dark but like he had this real traditional tony williams way of of playing right , right .
Speaker 1I actually like the way , I love the way steve get plays swing it's you know he swings . Well , I mean , you know he , he's pretty flawless , but anyway , let's get back to Matt Miller .
Musical Journey and Industry Challenges
Speaker 1So did you go to school ? I mean , so you graduated high school , you're just playing , you're just doing gigs Like where'd you ?
Speaker 2go . Yeah , I went to . Well , I went to North Texas , oh you went to North Texas . Yeah , I went for a semester . I got a scholarship I got a full scholarship to Miami , berkeley and North Texas . I went to North Texas and I went for a semester and I just , I don't know you , didn't like it . It was a lot of things . You know , I had a girlfriend who , like I , couldn't be away . You know , like I said , I have issues .
Speaker 1you know ? No , every guy in college has the same issue . It's a girl . There's some girl messing with you , man .
Speaker 2Yeah . So I came back and then , you know , I also realized that like there was so much happening in New York and I think I had subbed for Blood Sweat Tears pretty early , like I don't know . I have to think about this , but it was soon after college and I'm like I'm going to , you know , stick around here and see . You know , in the city , you mean yeah .
Speaker 1In New York .
Speaker 2Try to make things happen in New York and you know , I guess . A couple of years later I auditioned for Blood Sweat and Tears and and I played with them for a year .
Speaker 1That was a great memory and so how old were you then ?
Speaker 2uh , so boy , I should know the answer well , I mean approximately , you don't have to isn't my 20 , you know my early 20s okay so what , see ?
Speaker 1but that kind of was what separates you from I don't want to say the wrong thing here . You are in a different demograph than a lot of the guys , the local guys , I would say , let's say the local guys , whatever . There's a million drummers in New York and on my own right , but you're one of those guys . How do I put this ? It's like when I hear certain things from a drummer especially from a drummer , because I'm a drummer it starts to sound . It sounds real to me , like I hear like oh , that's okay , that's real , you know what I mean . And then I hear you know some other stuff that's like I know is not real you know what ?
Speaker 1I mean , but real enough to get over on whatever gig that guy's on . So you're one of those guys to me who's , I guess I'd say , a real player , drummer player . And I'll tell you this I hate all fucking drummers man . I hate them all , even myself . I hate myself , but I'm being funny myself . I hate myself , but you know , but I don't . You know , I don't .
Speaker 2I'm being funny , but I don't , um , I I get annoyed by the like , the drummer mentality of of most . I hear you , it's funny . I like I want to butt in and say something .
Speaker 2Yeah , I remember our conversations years ago when we were hanging out you , we , we did a some showcase club date , showcase together oh , yeah , probably I just remember hanging with you and and what I remember about it is you knew , joel , yeah , and you were about music like you , like I related to you because we were drummers that talked about music , right , like that's kind of what you're talking and what you're what you're going for yeah , like we Like . I've considered myself a musician first .
Speaker 1Right , exactly .
Speaker 2And I always thought of that , about you , and that's and you talked about . You know the way we shared music together .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2So I hear you .
Speaker 1See , and here's my problem and you're probably better at this than I am Like I can't I become a different player in different situations . Like I can't . I cannot play Like a really great . This is what I said in the last podcast . I think a really great drummer can just play great , no matter who's playing with him , but I can't . I fall to that If what's going on around me is not gelling in my brain , I collapse . You know what I mean . Like I'm completely motivated and always play at my best when there's someone or something in the band that's kind of pulling me along . You know what I mean . I'm hooking on to .
Speaker 2I hear you , I totally hear you , and the reason I say I hear you like that is because I recently did a recording session for you know , friends of mine Already , that's good , yeah , and and you know they weren't experienced musicians . And you have to right , you have to play well you have to play , but you have all these people pulling on you because their time isn't ? They have no experience right yeah , so I know exactly what you're talking about .
Speaker 1That's where , that's where you , that's where the click track comes in and it's like , oh , it's like the saving grace , you know but even yeah , right , and I and see , and those and those people tend to gravitate to each other and they take the work away from the people . Who , who can play ? I think you know I've , you know , I used to be in 1980 . It'd go into a bar where any bar anywhere and the band was great . It was all guys you knew , right , yeah . And now now you go in and it's like some guy who's an accountant doing it on the weekends yeah what , what ?
Speaker 1this is what I always say . We podcast also . What other profession does that happen in , if you're , let's say , a teacher ? Let's , I was a teacher and somebody said to me oh well , you're a teacher , I you know , I do that on weekends , man , I teach I have a I have a great book and I go out on weekends and I do some teaching that nobody . There's no other profession where you can infringe like that right . But if you go to sam asham by guitar , you're a guitar player .
Speaker 2Yeah , and they'll also do gigs for , like for two dollars .
Speaker 1Right , that's the other thing and we can't get arrested you know when left Club Dates and I started doing clubs with whatever band it was , I was floored by the pay . I was like , wow , I cannot believe that this is 2023 , and I'm getting paid what I got paid in 1980 .
Speaker 2I remember Jim Pinn band 1988 , 89 , $75 to $100 a night , but that's what we're getting now .
Speaker 1We're getting that now . Yeah , yeah , how is that ? It's like no respect for the industry . I don't know . I don't know what it is . This is what pisses me off . That's why I'm doing the podcast .
Speaker 2That's why you're like this is , you know , dark . Yeah , like things have changed and you know , I hopefully have another 25 , 30 years of a creative life ahead of me . I have to figure out how not to be dark .
Speaker 1It's hard . It's hard , I'm with you on that , because I it takes everything I have to not to not let that spill over , you know .
Speaker 2I up until like I was saying to you before , up until a year ago . It was dark a year ago , but I still got up and had the desire to practice and work on something I've always been like . I like the . I have a beautiful instrument . I play , you know , ruckus drums . Those are great drums . I'm very excited about them and I , you know , would still wake up with that , like the childlike you know , belief in magic kind of thing . Where I just want to play my instrument and create .
Speaker 2That's cool man , but that stopped a year ago . Like I want to play my instrument and create that's cool man , but that stopped a year ago . Like I want to get that back .
Speaker 1I mean it just stopped .
Speaker 2I just got dark things in life . I started , you know , not for one reason , just you know life changed .
Speaker 1Well , I mean , that affects everybody . Everybody plays their personality too . I'm convinced of that . Whomever you play with , they are playing who they are . Yeah , you know . So if there's somebody who always rushes , they're like hyperactive or they're you know . If somebody's in a bad place , they play . It affects their playing , I think yeah , because it's coming out . It's coming out of your out of your body .
Speaker 2Your playing , you know .
Speaker 1I mean , that's the way I've kind of always felt . You know that there are certain people who everybody I play with . If I get to know them in the band , you know their playing is who they are .
Speaker 2Yeah it's true , so I'm sure you're going to get it back , man ? I think so . You know , it's funny . My dear dear friend Frank Bellucci posted something the other day .
Speaker 2What Facebook you mean , yeah , it was just this thing out of stick control exercise where you would play an ostinato with your feet in this case it was a clave the left foot's playing clave , the high is playing clave , the bass is playing the tombow , and on top of that you just go through stick and trill . You start with right , left , right , left , right , left , then left , right , left , right , then right , right , left , left , and you know , first of all , he's so beautiful , I mean he's , you know , frank , yeah , he's a master at that . And so I have something to practice now .
Speaker 2So , I kind of woke up yesterday and I got down on the drums and I started and realized that , wow , this is not easy . This is , this is another part of my brain . So , like I kind of have that little bug , a little spark , like I'm gonna , I'm gonna this week , I'm gonna my phone's ringing , I'm gonna uh , I'm gonna start with that , you know yeah , I'm gonna .
Speaker 1I I mean , when I go , when I get out of here and I go to Joel's , I always come back with an inspiration like to get moving again , because I always hear stuff I haven't never heard before . You've always been inspired
Career Changes and Music Memories
Speaker 1by Joel .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1Joel , I would say , is probably my best friend at this point . You know we've known each other like 42 years , so cool .
Speaker 2You know , when I hung out with you , I was studying with Joel . Oh , you were studying with Joel . That's how long ago that was Wow . Maybe it was after .
Speaker 1I studied with him .
Speaker 2So what house was that ? Because that's probably three houses . It was near Weckl , near Dave .
Speaker 1Oh , that's in Mamaroneck .
Speaker 2Yeah , we used to take Joel and I used to get in Dave Weckl's .
Speaker 1Porsche , Porsche . So me too , Because Dave was away , so you know .
Speaker 2Dave was away , so the car has to be driven Right , so we would drive , and Joel was a great driver and we would be flying .
Speaker 1I remember being pinned . I remember being pinned in that car , pinned to the back seat , because he was going so fast . It was amazing .
Speaker 2I didn't like it . No , it's a very you know , it makes sense to be scared in the car when you're going .
Speaker 1I don't , how do I know how Joel was a Porsche ? I mean , you know it's a great drummer , but who knows about driving Anyway ? So so you , you , basically you've been a player for your whole life , right ?
Speaker 2you've been relying on gigs for you for your whole existence .
Speaker 1I've ever done yeah , yeah but I mean , that's a good thing every you know covid .
Speaker 2Oh , covid changed everything for me . I always say this it's like it's anybody who knows me , they're like here . He says it again it's like I . I would say I'm a full-time musician . That's all I've ever done . I always have have $300 in my pocket . I don't owe anybody any money . I pay all my bills . I've managed . But ever since COVID , it's different . It changed , covid changed . Yeah , it's not like that anymore . So I have to fight , right .
Speaker 1For gigs .
Speaker 2I have to make sure I get on the phone and , and you know , it's just , it's , everything's changed .
Speaker 1It's part of my darkness yeah , you know , yeah , no , I , uh , covid , definitely did . I mean a lot of my friends who were in dire straits because , that's , they relied on gigs . You know , they were doing those gofundmes on on facebook where they would play and they'd send them money . And you , a lot of people , did that , because what else were you going to do ? I mean , the only way we played , the only way I played , was doing those videos . I did some videos with Billy Heller and some other people , but that wasn't for pay , that was just to play , right , you know . But so what's some of the gigs you've had ? I know you said you auditioned for uh , blood , sweat and Tears , right , and so what was some of the gigs you've had after that ?
Speaker 2Well , I , you know , I that was like the gig that I like , the pro gig that I can . You know people who ?
Speaker 1Who can understand what it is ? Who ?
Speaker 2know who , blood Sweat and Tears is like my first famous , you know person famous you know person , but I did a .
Speaker 2I did some traveling with Stevie Cochran . If you know , that was my maybe that was first time I went overseas . I went to to Switzerland and we did Italy and that was a wild experience that a few times did my church as festival and I also toured with a band called the healers . This was in 2009 , 10 , 11 , 12 . And we toured all over europe with this band called the healers was thomas buck , nasty and the healers , and he was this unbelievable , beautiful black singer with a voice . He would sing songs without his microphone .
Speaker 2It's like a gimmicky thing , he just had this amazing thing about him People loved him . Was it an R&B gig ? Yeah , it was power blues like blues and R& almost like gospel , or I mean yeah , a pretty decent mix of things . Yes and um , it was with my dear friend dean zuccaro , who I used to play in a band called major domo with in the 80s that sounds familiar to me .
Speaker 1Major domo was that . Was that around here ?
Speaker 2yeah , yeah , long island thing , and for years he's been asking me , you know , because he moved to Europe , you know he's a self-made guy , he really you know a lot of respect for Dean and he , you know , finally , you know , he asked me again to go , you know , with him on the road and I said I had just gotten divorced , I had just gotten very sick and recovered and divorced , and I was like , yes , I'll go on the road .
Speaker 1And when was that ? What was that ?
Speaker 2Well , I got sick in 2006 . And so 2008 is when we I think when we first went out .
Surviving Illness, Musical Culture Shift
Speaker 1I don't know . I don't know , you got sick . I don't know what that means . Well , I got lymphoma .
Speaker 2Oh , I didn't know that . I had non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and then it went away after a year of fighting and then it came back as , like they called it , a gray zone lymphoma and then they called it Hodgkin's lymphoma Hodgkin's lymphoma . It's a long story . I actually wrote about it . I had this long thank you letter for all the people that helped me and I ended up describing the scenario . But you beat it . Yeah , yeah , I ended up with a stem cell transplant . Oh wow , Matt I had no idea .
Speaker 1man , See you , and I don't keep in touch enough ?
Speaker 2No , that's going to change . Yeah , definitely going to change . Keep in touch enough . No , that's gonna change . Yeah , definitely gonna change . Um , so you know . So , with all that , I was like , yes , I'm gonna go on the road I'm . I've always wanted to travel , yeah , and it turned out to be unbelievable yeah , so that's what everybody says who travels playing music is .
Speaker 2It is an unbelievable experience , and and they and the band that I happened to be in was loved by you know , they had been out there before . And then I'm like , here I am , I'm in Gijon , spain , gijon , and you look in the audience and you see , you know 800 people singing the lyrics to our original song yeah , see , there's something to be said for that right , it's incredible , it's very inspiring and you're up there and you're doing your thing right .
Speaker 1you're demonstrating your art and people appreciate it incredible that is a thing , man , that's that's part of the reason why we do this nonsense right , and a lot of times people go to europe for that reason yes you know it's .
Speaker 2I think it's harder here in new york , it is harder in new york people .
Speaker 1I think people in in europe are much more , I don't know , cultured , you know , in music , and well-versed .
Speaker 2Maybe . Yeah , I don't really know why that is , but you know , I mean I think that even like in the 50s , 60s I mean I sound like an idiot because I but I know that was a lot there was a scene out there for jazz . So I don't know if , if it's , you know , if it's just appreciated , if the culture is appreciated more out there than it is here , but or maybe just that's what I think it is .
Speaker 1I really think that there's just I don't know . They're different , they're a different culture . You know , we're new yorkers . I mean , new york , especially , is like I don't know who knows at this point . Um , what was I going to ask you what ? Um , so you're so , you were doing that , and then , and then what , what happened after that ? That road ?
Speaker 2kick . So the healers was uh , from 2008 to like 11 , 12 . I came back and just worked here , just like local stuff , yeah .
Speaker 1Because the club dates situation is totally different now . I don't even know what it is now .
Speaker 2I got into the Jewish Orthodox end of club dates .
Speaker 1Do they have a lot of work Because nobody else does .
Speaker 2Well , here's the thing Now I got into that in 92 , the Jewish Orthodox thing 92 ? Yeah , I got into that , you know . And then I , you know , got blood , sweat and tears and then I went on the road . So I've been doing this all along , and in 92 to like 2000, . I was doing I don't know 200 jobs a year . Sure , Yep , it was Jewish Orthodox . So it's a lot of times double Sunday , Right , Monday , Tuesday , Wednesday , Thursday .
Speaker 1Club dates Yep .
Speaker 2Never on a Friday , and maybe two or three Saturday nights . Wow , a year .
Speaker 1And were they always 10 to 2 ? Was that the like ? They always like the really late gigs .
Speaker 2Well , no , I mean that would happen on a Saturday because of the Sabbath Right . Oh , so that's why , okay , that's why yeah , so you can't . You know you can't drive until after sundown , after sunset , right , but that's why they get married during the week Because of the Sabbath Right .
Speaker 1They're getting married Sunday , Monday , Tuesday , Wednesday , Thursday , yeah so 1992 , I was in Gus's band and I was doing 130 or so , with no showcases , right , we were just giving them here . Show up to this , these places where you're playing , and they can't .
Speaker 2they carried the drums I mean , it was a great guy , you had a roadies and everything .
Speaker 1I didn't he had him , you know , and and it was just such a good , good gig it was , I would say , out of 120 gigs , 130 gigs a year , I would say 10 were check the rest was like a buy , like you're seeing , like 300 buy-in , like you're saying , like $300 in your pocket . You could say , hey , that's wads of money at the end of the week and you couldn't . How do you not do that ? You know what I mean .
Speaker 1With no showcases and no like it is today , where they give you 20 songs to learn every weekend . You just go and play the stuff . Every weekend you play the same stuff .
Speaker 2Definitely .
Speaker 1You know , in the 90s you could get away with that .
Speaker 2It's different now .
Speaker 1Now , it's like here's the list for the weekend . Like the list . What's the list ?
Speaker 2Yeah , and just back to the Jewish thing . So back then , so in 92 , I was , however old , I was in my 20s there were the guys who were in their 50s and 60s still doing 100 jobs a year . So I figured who wants to be doing club dates ? But I complained about them , but I always knew they'd be there . It was always the fallback thing .
Speaker 1Yeah , I agree with that .
Speaker 2But now it's not that way anymore . Even that business has changed . I've aged out . But now it's not that way anymore . Even that business has changed . Yep , I've aged out . The bands that are busy are young guys .
Speaker 1Did you ever hear the thing that you know ? Terry Negrelli did this podcast . Did you hear what he said about that ? Let me hear it there's four stages in a musician's life . So the first stage is I'm going to use your name in this thing . First stage is who the fuck is Matt Miller ? The second stage is we've got to get Matt Miller . The third stage is we need a young Matt Miller . And the fourth stage is who the fuck is Matt .
Speaker 1Miller , that's right , it really is , and you know what ? It's funny , but it is so true man , it's very sad . It really is sad . It's a sad .
Speaker 2It's very sad . It really is sad . It's a sad , it's true , and I was a busy . You know the Jewish . It's a certain culture where they don't Everybody knows each other , they don't mingle with people really outside of their circle , so for them to see a technically proficient drummer was unusual . So I had like people around the bandstand like watching me . It was a very unusual thing . So what's my point ? So , like to me , I got used to that , Like I was kind of a famous you know I was that's unusual man .
Speaker 1I got to tell you that because most of my recollection from Club Dates was being ignored .
Speaker 2Yeah , this was different . The Jewish Orthodox thing was very different From what I was told people would . There was me and Matt Hill . Matt Hill was the other drummer who was very famous in the Jewish world and people I was told would book their weddings around our availability Get out of here .
Speaker 1I have never , ever heard that ever . Every situation I've been in is like those guys are in the back . It doesn't matter if you get fired , you're the ones that get fired . The drummer gets fired , the bass player gets fired . Much different in this ?
Speaker 2Oh my God , I have never heard of that . I had a hundred people around Matt Hill , especially because he and Animal from the Muppets , you know he was a good drummer , good musician Matt Hill .
Speaker 1So he was a rock drummer but he plays .
Speaker 2He's kind of like a crazy face . His cymbals were way up in the air and people would just crowd around him .
Speaker 1You floor me with that man . I gotta tell you I have never in my life heard of not being ignored on a club date .
Speaker 2Go on YouTube and put in . Even you see me too . But Matt Hill , he was . He do a at the end of the first dance set . He'll do like a five minute drum solo and this people , matt Hill , drum solo . You'll see look in the audience .
Speaker 1Yeah , you'll see it . That's funny , but that's again .
Speaker 2This is 20 , 30 years ago .
Speaker 1So okay , so then where does that put us ? Like you were doing the Jewish circuit . And then what ?
Speaker 2Still doing it , but now it's just oh , they don't have work either , oh no .
Speaker 1No .
Speaker 2The work has gone to the younger guys and where in the American ?
Speaker 1field , but why I don't get the what's like . I don't get the younger . I get it with the singers and stuff , but with drummers . Drummers can age out . I didn't even know that , yeah it's .
Speaker 2They want a young band , really , yeah , so in the American wedding business the DJ kind of killed us In the Jewish Orthodox world . It's the one-man band that ruined everything . So one guy , a keyboard player , will go up . You know he can hire a percussionist or hire a guitar player , but he'll do the whole wedding by himself . Yeah , so that became very dominant People . You know a fraction of the price , you know . So that became a big thing and for whatever reason it's , uh , it's becoming a younger , a younger thing yeah , and that is that kind of like .
Speaker 1speaks to our point about music being well , music visual . Now I mean it should . It should never be visual . Used to be like great was great , doesn't matter what you look like . Now you got've got to be young . You've got to look young , not necessarily play as well . Just look the part Right , that bothers the shit out of me .
Speaker 2I've got to tell you , man , that really irks me , that's what I was told In the Jewish Orthodox world there's a bunch of rehearsed set young bands and it's half the amount of work , half the amount of work . Nagina orchestras , who I worked with . They'd be 15 weddings a night , 15 bands , 15 bands that Shelly Lang Nagina would have to contract out , and now it's just not like that . I think there's less volume as well .
Speaker 1Wow , what was I going to ask you ? So what is that ? So you were with them from 1 to 1 . You said 92 to 2000 ?
Speaker 292 to 2000 . I was very busy . I've been with the Jewish I mean , I'm not with Nagina anymore , they kind of broke up but I've been doing the Orthodox thing . Still . I'm working this Sunday . But it's like four or five a month now .
Speaker 1But that's still good , Matt . I mean it's like four or five a month now . But that's still good , Matt . I mean that's four or five a month , it depends .
Speaker 2Some months are one or two . In fact , this month is February .
Speaker 1Those are well-paying gigs . Yeah , they pay you the way they should pay you . Right , exactly . Everybody's got their price right . I know I do .
Speaker 1That's what kept me in the business for so long . You know , what I did was I kind of like took myself out of everything else . I was so busy doing club dates . Nobody called me for anything else . I never did any original projects Because I was always busy and then it abruptly ends and nobody knows who you are anymore . Yeah , so I'm I'm really happy to be doing the stuff I'm doing now with dave siegel and um with that , with kenny and those guys .
Speaker 1you know it's it's just here and there and it's it's good players and stuff that's good um so , um , when you sort of transitioned out of that , well , it kind of you said it kind of like , it kind of like fizzled a little bit , like it , just you didn't really abruptly leave that . Right , the orthodox yeah yeah , it just changed .
Speaker 2I mean , when I got sick , I stopped completely , but then I came back into it and got busy again . It had changed . At that point , though I wasn't as busy , and over the so , from 2008 till now , it's just gotten , you know , slower and slower , slower and slower . Yeah , I've always maintained original bands . You know I play with a few different original bands . I've always You're doing Paul Atherton for a while , right , Paul Atherton yeah , I did that for a lot .
Speaker 1I saw one of those gigs A lot of years .
Speaker 2yeah , that was a good gig .
Speaker 1Yeah , Interplay , yeah , yeah , right , Interplay , right . And Teddy Kumpel too right .
Musical Projects and Funny Stories
Speaker 1What was the thing you ?
Speaker 2You're doing something with Teddy right now , aren't you ? Yeah , gnome Sane , right , gnome Sane , yeah yeah .
Speaker 1So what's that ? Looks fun . Teddy's hilarious .
Speaker 2It's a great , is it ?
Speaker 1a serious band . Because the little advertisements I see on Facebook look like it's just funny . Because well at first it was called Gnome Saiyan .
Speaker 2Yeah , gnome Saiyan right S-A-N-E with a question mark Right Gnome Saiyan . But it's a very serious band . We play every Tuesday , no matter what , where do you play ? We rehearse on Tuesdays . Oh , you rehearse on to every tuesday , no matter what and um . We play in new york . We play at the bitter end . We have a you know a few a month . We want to do a lot more . You know , we're hoping that we can start doing jazz festivals soon . We're working on a third record .
Speaker 1Um should be out soon um , is it , it's a what's it ? Uh , is it swing or what is it what ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean I was talking to Bob about that . I don't know what you'd call it .
Speaker 1Now it's a trio . Yeah , so it's . Teddy Bob is the guy .
Speaker 2Bob's the bass player Right and me , and it's like very harmonic , very dynamic , fusion-y music . There's some lyrics , so it's very funny stuff .
Speaker 1It seems like there's some funny stuff in there .
Speaker 2Yeah , there's a lot of humor in the band . It's really great . I don't even know how to describe it yeah . But it's , you know , tuesday is my day to really just be creative and and play , and play .
Speaker 1That's what it's about , right , like it's interacting with other human beings on instruments . Yeah , I mean , that really is what everybody does this stuff for . It's funny . When I was going to college , I had a weird kind of like idea about musicians , like I always thought . I thought when I was going , when I went to college , that this music was some kind of like you know , you choose it , like you would choose being an accountant , you know . I thought you know , if a person like I'd see all these musicians who weren't doing well because they had to rely on gigs and I'd say , well , just get a job , in my mind I would say , you just get a job . But it's really , you can't . You can't just do something else . You're kind of like strapped in . Yeah , you know .
Speaker 1True , I wanted to ask you about if you well , I mean , we all had these before , but you know you were the guy if you have a funny story . I was going to ask if you have any funny stories . But you , I heard a story that you told about a certain club date leader who counted off a tune a certain way . Oh , yeah , and that's going on 25 years or something . I keep repeating that story . Well , I think I know what you're talking about .
Speaker 1Yeah , well , you know what I'm talking about .
Speaker 2Well , is it Sal Herman ? Yeah , yes , that's the one .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2Yeah , he's , I really owe him a phone call .
Speaker 1He's a beautiful , beautiful guy yeah , oh , he's still around , huh .
Speaker 2Sure Wow .
Speaker 1Yeah , sal's got to be in his 80s right , I guess .
Speaker 2Yeah , see , that's hard to . I can't even believe that , but that's probably right .
Speaker 1Yeah , because I mean I was 30-something and he must have been 50-ish .
Speaker 2I think Bossa Nova , any key . One , two brushes would be nice . No , I didn't hear the two . One , two brushes would be nice .
Speaker 1Three I didn't hear .
Speaker 2Bing over any key . I never heard that one .
Speaker 1That is hilarious . Man that's going to stick with me now Bossing over any key . That's great .
Speaker 2Oh my God , he was the best , he is the best . I'm going to call him .
Speaker 1I remember being on a gig with Dave Siegel on Saul's gig , and I just met Dave that night and after the gig Dave turned to me and said hey , man , you got a card Back in the day , did you have a card ? Give me a card and we exchanged cards and we got yelled at . So I was like don't exchange cards on a bandstand .
Speaker 1Because it looks like we just met , which we did , you know , and I I didn't . I was like what , what's going on ? Man , I always take , give out my card . I never got yelled at before you got any , uh any other , uh funny uh , oh , there's so many .
Speaker 2I mean , there's so many there are uh sure I do um , there's always club dates that were funny I have some tasteless stuff .
Speaker 1Oh , tasteless is good , we like tasteless .
Speaker 2No , I can't tell you that . Okay , all right , it involves another musician who shouldn't have done what he did . Oh , okay , well . Well , I mean , I don't know , this is not that funny , but for me it was very memorable . I was out with Stevie Cochran in . This was macho , this was uh , macho jazz .
Speaker 2Yeah , this was in switzerland and we stayed in this beautiful villa and um and uh , it's just , it's not that funny , but it's just a memory . When people think like it's not that funny , but it's just a memory . When people think like you know , want to hear stories of being on the road and it was like a big villa . Upstairs it was like three floors that connected with each other and the people who owned the place weren't really that nice . She was kind of like we just did .
Speaker 1They owned the villa .
Speaker 2Yeah , we didn't like this , just rub us wrong . They rubbed us wrong something about them . I don't really remember what it was , but we ended up , you know , this night we partied the whole day , we were pretty bummed and we and we ended up completely rearranging the furniture like completely , like we actually pulled the couch into another room , just completely arranged .
Speaker 1That's great , yeah that is great man . Yeah , that was funny we always have those stories where you know somebody dies on the gig . You know , yeah , I've heard that yeah , a fight breaks out , yep yep , I remember doing .
Speaker 1You know the days where you do club dates and then in every other room your friends were on club days yeah , huntington townhouse right so we were doing , I was doing a club date I forget where it was and it was new year's eve and we were playing and I met my friends , were next door , and a giant fight , fist fight , broke out , the whole place , right , and so we , we took a break right , started playing again , and then the other band came over to watch us and they said , hey , why don't you guys come ? You know , the drummer knew me , whatever , play in our room for a minute . So we go and we play in their room . We go , we sit on their game and play one song and another fight breaks out in that room go , fight breaks these guys missed two fights and we had , we had two fights .
Speaker 1That's yeah , yeah . And then you know the ones where the guy dies and , like you , gotta , you can't cancel the wedding . You just paid 25 000 for a wedding and the guy's grandpa died . He's gonna keep going , you know , you just throw a blanket on him and wait for the car and you know that that should happen .
Speaker 2Man , I remember that distinctly yeah , I , I never attended a wedding with sweaty died yeah , it's , it's I don't know .
Speaker 1I hate when that happens especially if you , especially who wants to die , imagine dying at a wedding like I want that someplace nice , you know , jeez , what , uh , what , what do you ? What's uh , what's your thing ? Now , man , what's your , what's your mainstay ?
Speaker 2well , mean , I'm in a few bands that I really enjoy . It's a bit of a hiatus now , but playing with Bob Gallo and George Panos .
Speaker 1Oh cool .
Speaker 2And you know playing Bob's music Bob is great Bob used to be in a band called Eclipse and I played with Eclipse . And so you know , and I played with Eclipse and I played with Bob on and off throughout the years , but now for the last couple of years we were rehearsing every week . We have to get back to it so that I'm playing in a really good band , my friend John Carey It's- called John Carey and the Big . Juicy is the name of the band we're
Bitter End Gig Confirmation
Speaker 2playing up .
Speaker 2We're coming towards the end here Saturday night , bitter End , 10 o'clock , john Carrie and the Big Juicy .
Speaker 1That's what you're playing Saturday night . Bitter End , Bitter End . Saturday night . What's the date ?
Speaker 2Jesus the 15th right 15th . Yeah , I believe so . Yep the 15th right 15th . Yeah , I believe so . Yep , the 15th .
Speaker 1All right , well , thanks , that was nice . That was a good time , matt . Thanks for coming in . You did a great job . We're going to hang out .
Speaker 2Thank you , john , that sounds good to me , matt .
Speaker 1Miller Bye buddy .
