Willie Steele, a Late Start Becomes A Lifelong Music Career

He didn’t grow up with a band room, a stack of records, or a family cheering him on. Willie Steele grew up hearing “get a job,” drove lumber trucks, and only started taking guitar lessons at 30. Somehow, that late start turns into a lifelong working career where his name becomes shorthand around Long Island for a guy who can show up, make the music feel good, and tell the kind of gig stories you can’t invent. 

We get into the unglamorous truth behind becoming a real musician: the weddings where you get yelled at for not knowing standards, the moment someone asks for a C major seven and you realize you have gaps, and the saving power of the right mentor. Willie gives huge credit to teacher Billy Bauer for unlocking harmony and a deeper system beyond blues licks, and we talk about what practice actually looks like when you’re serious. If you care about adult music education, improvisation, and the working guitarist life, this conversation is packed with hard-earned perspective. 

Then it goes where musicians love to go: feel and groove. Willie breaks down why great players can “hear what’s coming” and lock in fast, why some bands fall apart the second the groove returns after a flashy solo, and how he protects the pocket on real gigs. We also talk about money versus joy, the club date world, flipping songs on purpose, and why integrity sometimes means turning down the shiny offer. 

Subscribe to On Drums, share this with a musician who needs it, and leave a review if the stories hit home. What’s one rule you’ve learned the hard way from gigging?

Transcript

Intro And Meeting Willie Steele

SPEAKER_01 0:06

It's my intro music. Alright, so this is episode 31 of On Drums. I'm John Simeone. Today I have Willie Steele. The famous blues guitar player Willie Steele. Yeah. Who everybody knows, who I know sort of for forever, but except I only just met him like six months ago. Right? Is that Willie?

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Yeah. With Ken, I think, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was good. That was fun too, that we did that gig over there.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

We did a double a double gig uh at uh what was what's the name of that place?

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Bose, I think.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Yeah, Bose Bar, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Well it's the kind of place you can you can just kind of do whatever you want and no one cares. Right. That's why we do it.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

So but you're like an icon in uh um around here. I mean everybody knows Willie Steele.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

I mean strangely, I don't know how that is.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

It's funny. Everybody know everybody knows you. Everybody who I say Willie Steele do goes, oh yeah, Willie Steele.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

Well I have been uh doing well I really like I listened to a lot of your um podcasts and uh you know uh the funny thing

Starting Guitar Later Than Most

SPEAKER_02 1:15

for me is is I d did not start playing music at a young age. I started taking lessons when I was thirty, which people always go, my god, is that thirty? Yeah, well I mean I didn't know know what I was doing. I I had a blues band like when I was twenty-seven, well as Billy Heller.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Well you but you were playing younger than me, NAD.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

As Billy Heller would say, let's rewind. I was I was in a you know, uh an Irish Catholic family that was just like you get a job, you go to work. So I was a teamster out of high school driving lumber trucks. I said, I don't want to do this, I just want to play- Oh, I was just I always wanted to play the guitar my whole life, but there's no way you're gonna unlike most of the people that I hear, like it wasn't like my father was gonna say, Yeah, let's buy you a guitar. Get a shovel, let's go dig a hole. Right. So when I when I was driving these lumber trucks and the whole time I just wanted to play the guitar. I had no guitars, I just wanted a guitar. I said, I'm gonna join the army and get out of here, and I'll get a guitar. So that's what I did. I joined the army, I got a guitar in the army, and I I promptly got my finger busted, uh which put the end of the so I put the good I didn't have a guitar, so I got out of the army. I I was about 27, and this guy knew I had a guitar, this bass player that I knew, and he says, Hey, you got a guitar, right? I go, Yeah. He said, I'll show you what to do. So he showed me like a couple of bar chords and I started playing blues, because that's all I wanted to do is play blues. Which brings me around to like by the time I was 30, I had been playing for a few years in these, you know, little dumps around Long Island. And people were like hiring me for things. And I had no I like I before I was took a lesson with this with Billy Bauer, who is my savior of of of of my life as far as you know playing guitar and music is goes, I got a friend of mine, John McCuririo, he's a local guitarist, and he says, Hey, I'm doing a clinic. He was like studying me, playing Pat Matheny and all this. You want to back me up at the at the Sam Ash? I go, sure. All right, great. So we get over there and he goes, All right, just drum a C major seven. And I go, What's that? He goes, You don't know what that is? I go, No. He got the idea right then that we were in a lot of trouble. But anyway, so I and I kept I and then I got hired to play at a wedding, a couple of them. And people were just kept yelling at me.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah. You don't know that I don't know what's the wedding talk right there.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

I didn't know anything. I didn't know any song. I didn't one at one point a father came up to me and said, Hey, hey, do me a favor, but just play Here Comes the Bride. I go, Oh, I don't know how to play. You don't have to I said, I gotta So eventually, and I want to give you know accurate props or whatever you call it to Matt Margolin, who's another local musician, who um by the way, his sister is is uh is uh Mark Newman's Oh Mark Mark Newman's uh girlfriend. Yeah, girlfriend.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Oh, uh Naomi.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Naomi, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

I'm doing a gig with her uh on July 4th.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Matt said to me one day, because he knew he knew me and he knew what I was trying to I think he went to music school, I don't know, but anyway, you know, he said, Listen, there's this guy. You should and he gave me the information to go see Billy Bauer, and I'll say his name a thousand times because that guy just he I got in there and I said, I just want to he said, You're just a hill, Billy, he said. And he just put me. Hey Ken's Ken Talby study with him. Uh, you know, a lot a lot of guys have uh uh Joe uh whatever his name, the bold rock guy. Joe the bold rock guy. He's very famous. He's like a Steve Vi guy. Joe Satriani, he studied with him. I mean a lot of people, guy, I think Denny Diaz, not that I know who these people are, but I think he I think he one of these guys that was on the Steel Dean study with him. I mean, a lot of people have. He was he like was the miracle worker that you know got me to you know this is more to life than you know the 145, you know, playing blueslicks all day long, and that's how I just kind of progressed.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

So so let me let me so what you're saying now is like why I do this podcast, because I I went to school the I went to school with with uh Dave Weckle and Joel Rosenblatt, and I was l watching an uh an interview with Dave, and and Dave said you know, in his interview, let's be clear, I didn't choose drums. Drums chose me. Oh, I've heard you say that, yeah. And and that's for all of us, if you're if you're out of if you're not how do I put this? Like if you're not a musician or you're not involved in music or you don't have that thing, you don't get that. Like you don't get why would you play guitar when you could go work somewhere else and make a lot of money and you and why you you know why you why do you pay you know get twenty dollars a gig when you can go do this and this, you know what I mean? And and it's if you don't some people understand it and some people do not.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Well the funny thing is, is like I said, nobody in my family was like, oh music, good. You know, it was like, what? Yeah, yeah. You're gonna do what?

SPEAKER_01 6:20

And that's that's a common reaction. I think like, why would you do that's crazy? Like you're gonna you're gonna be. Oh, it was you know, i anyway. I that I that's that's what I what I feel, and it's hard to explain it to somebody like you know, uh some other profession like whatever, or a carpenter or whatever. You you don't you it's not maybe it is, but it's not it's like music is in you and you have no choice. Right? It's a genetic or whatever you had to play guitar.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

I had I I I used to sit when I was just to go to show you, I always wanted to. I used to I bought a guitar from a kid next door to me when I was probably like thirteen for like five dollars, an electric guitar. But it wasn't like I could tell anybody. I hid it under my bed and I would just and I would pull it out and just look at it. I did. And I would just look at it and like I didn't I didn't. And I wouldn't want to show anybody.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

You had the you had the music theater or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

I just wanted to play the guitar.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

So so let me let's go back. What so uh is how

Army Years And A Broken Finger

SPEAKER_01 7:20

going back as far as you can remember, how did this all start for you as far as like getting into doing this stuff?

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Was it like how old were you when you're like you said I was about twenty-seven and this guy said he was But before twenty-seven you you were interested and you Oh I wanted to I'd left the army to get out of here to get away from the Teamsters and my father and and and I figured I'll just get it. And I actually I was about a year into I was in Germany, you know, doing my military crap. I bought a guitar, I bought this book in German, but it had the little pictures, and I was um I'm playing these chords and it sounded good, you know, and people in my barracks would be like, hey man, you know, I'm yeah, you're playing the blues, I'm playing the blues. And then they'd be hit to it. They'd think, yeah, Matt Casey playing the blues, you know. So that's but then like I said, my finger got broken. I went my hand was on this catwalk and the guy jumped on it and kind of ruined my finger. So it for a long time I couldn't even bend it. So I just figured that was it. But when by the time this guy, when I was a little older, and I was I was home, and he says, Hey, you have a guitar, and I said, Yeah, he says, uh, let's play us. I don't know. He says, I'll show you what to do. And that was that kind of got me going. And we had a little band, him and he got a drummer, Lightning Mike Kennedy, who I haven't seen him in 45 years. Light and Mike Kennedy. What a trip.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Well, his name is Lightning Mike Kennedy. That's what he called him.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Light he was the drummer, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

No, that's funny because one I have this is another thing that people don't understand. I've had people come up to me and say, Oh, yeah, you play drums. Uh, you know, my my neighbor plays drums. You might know him. Oh, what's his name? His name's uh whatever, Joe McKenna. No, I don't really know him. Well, they call him Styx McKenna. I go, supposed to go, like, oh, Sticks McKenna. Yeah, who everybody knows Styx, you know. They call him Sticks. He must be famous.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Well, the funny part is, is like you're saying, how do I get going here? I always seem to be like, like, that's why I even had to go study some guitar music. Because I was getting hired all the time. I did the New York City guitar show, uh, expo or something. This guy I'd met, he he was wanted to play with my little band. His name was Little Riff. Yeah, he's still playing. And he he says, Hey, my brother is a representative for Minor Symbols. Do you want to play at this? I mean, this is at the Coliseum.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

I mean, Miles Davis band was there, Lita Ford, that's the only two I remember. But there was all these major I didn't know any I didn't even know what if you said to me Miles Davis back then, I would have been like I had no I I had no music. There was no music in my house.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

That's interesting because you don't you don't come across that way. You come across as someone who's like kind of a s a schooled guy, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Well, believe me, I w I I I I got fired I I had a job at a music store, I don't want to mention it, but I had a job luckily at a music store. I got a job around the same time I started, maybe a little after I was, you know, starting to play the guitar again. And uh then I started taking lessons with with you know Billy Bauer and uh I would just sit in the store and practice. Finally I fired me. He said, Man, you you know, I just practiced, that's all I did. Practice, practice, pra I was just running through all his his, you know, me his method of how to figure out, okay, there's there's these you know whatever the system was, blah blah blah. But uh and I'm at this g you know, this uh like like like this is one of my little stories. Like I got hired to play at the Super Bowl, and people you say that, they think that means the halftime show. No. The Super Bowl is a week long of corporate events, it's a corporate monstrosity.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

So which Super Bowl?

SPEAKER_02 11:04

The one in 2000 when the Ravens beat the Giants. Well, I was doing a gig with my my regular what I call my A team, which is Pollock, Jim Mule and Frank Bellucci, the four of us we've been running around for 30 years or so together. And we were playing some backyard party, and uh some lady comes up to me and goes, Hey, do you want to play at the Super Bowl? And I was like, Yeah, sure, here's my card. Meanwhile, a week later she called me up, she goes, Yeah, here you go. And the funny part is it's just this is what I mean about Mike's strange musical life. She said, Well, we're gonna pay you $2,000. And I said, Okay, great, you know. And then she then I realized I get off the phone, I'm thinking, how am I gonna get the band down here? I called her back, I said, Listen, I'm sorry I can't do that. I said, uh, what do you need? I said, Well, I'd need like $10,000. She goes, Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Oh my god, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Well, I I rented a van, we jumped. You should have if I had a a a recording of what when I'm in that van going to Florida with those guys. I can imagine. Yeah. Believe me, it was those they still thought it was just funny, but the things like that have happened to me that or just playing with all the people that I've played with, like that, you know, like just through playing a gig, somebody will be like, I'm sure it happens to you and every b all the other guys, you know, like actually even Ken, you know, you're you're the guy you're Ken Talby. I was playing at um I used to have a blues jam at a long time ago, and he was there, and I kind of knew he was taking lessons with Billy because he had walked into my lesson once and kind of I didn't know him, and he was starting talking to Billy during my lesson. I was like thinking to myself, hey man. Yeah. And the funny part about that is he had done an audition for a club date band with Phil Magalanis. Oh, yeah. I don't know if Phil was the you know running the show, but Phil probably wasn't running the show.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

He was just an adult.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

But he had he had come in to tell Billy he thinks he got the gig, and they told me I have good ears. And I didn't know what any of that meant. I'm just like going, who is this guy?

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

You know, but then years later, he was he was at my gym. I said, Hey man, he didn't want to play. You know, he I said, Come on and play. No, no. You know, Kenny's so Kenny's very mellow, yeah. Yeah, he's very self-effacing, he's just he's doing his thing, which is why I do these gigs with him, because I want him. I don't care if it's two people that see him. Uh Ken should be playing. He should be talking about it. I agree. I completely agree with that. He's a great musician. Great, great, great player. You know, I mean uh ever since I first we I don't even know how I first heard him or heard his music, but I can't a lot of things I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Well, his his he's got a lot of stuff out, and it's really good. He's got real guys on it. He's got like Chad Wackman and all these guys. I mean, you know, when I first started learning his stuff, he sent me this stuff with Chad on it. I'm like, you gotta be kidding me, man. I can't you know, and I had to sit here down here for hours figuring out what to do.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Well,

Billy Bauer And Learning Real Harmony

SPEAKER_02 13:55

that's the other thing is like you you you you know what it means. Like you even when I heard you talking a bit like when Billy's saying, I'm making these charts, he's probably spending days and days and days on this stuff. And he's thinking, oh, there's some weird stuff in that Michael McDonald tune. Yeah, how'd you gotta sit there over and over? What is that? How did I how did he do that? What's the what's the count? You know, all the stuff he's gotta go through just to do the gig. Yeah. You know, people they see you do the gig, they're like, oh, you know, how all the stuff behind it.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

That's see that's what people don't get. They don't get what's behind it, you know. And and uh, you know, uh if you hang out with non it's so funny, man. Most of the people I have younger kids and I have to hang out with these parents, you know, and none of them are musicians, none of them, and they don't they totally don't get it. And you know, you say if you say to them I have a gig, they're like, Oh, can we come down to can we come to to the gig? What's the what let's come, you know, who's is there a singer? You know, here we go. I gotta explain, try to explain fusion to them. It's it's like talking a different language, you know.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

I just told Ken I saw him yesterday, and I said, I don't want to mention the person because he might hear this, but somebody said to me, I said, Hey, you know, um on the 14th of June, you know, Ken and me are gonna play at this this US brews and we're gonna you guys are gonna play because I gotta I have my recital, so you guys go first and I'll be there. I said to this person, yeah, you know, remember my friend Ken, you gotta go check him out, man. Because this guy is a person that will say he's got a guitar, he's plays the guitar, I love guitar. You love guitar? Go check this guy out. Oh, he's the guy that plays uh yeah, he don't sing, right? He see, there you go. I'm like There you go. Do you like I mean I it it would be like there's I think there's a two different things too, like there's listening to music. Like like I would never sit around and listen to Alan Holdsworth. But if I could go watch him play, I would do that in a I would go to I would drive to frickin' Pennsylvania to do that because you know, but I'm j what I'm we're we're all we're all limited, what the time we have to listen, the time we have to play, of course to practice. So he you know, if I had if I was gonna live forever, I'd probably listen to everything he ever did. Right. But I'm I I'm I'm trying to get my I've been trying to learn write music, learn music. Well you but you write. I write music all the time. I have a cousin who I don't want to name his name, but he You don't want to name any names to the name.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Well no, because I name everybody's name. I don't give a shit.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Well he he he he had a band around here for a long time and he moved out of here, but one time I like I I I I make I I make a lot of recordings and CDs, but nothing like that's on any labels, and not even as Billy would say a vanity project, because it's not. It's you know, Billy Hell'd be like, oh, I'm doing this vanity project. It's not that. I did a I did a recording once. There's a ballroom in like Oyster Bay Cove that was brought over here f by these very wealthy people, brought over from from England back in the twenties, and everybody, Artie Shaw, they all played in this ballroom. And I did a gig there once. And I asked the lady whose name was Frenny Stores, she's kind of famous out there, right? Her name was what was her name? Fringe Stores. She was in her 90s. Wow. And right by Sagamore Hill. And I said, Would you mind if I made a recording here? She goes, Oh, nobody's ever asked me that. Sure. Billy did it. Pollock, uh, Joe Rendy, Charlie Bisterna, two uh two drummers.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Two drummers.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

I just went wild and I just and it was all recorded with two mics on a reel to reel live. Oh, that's it. I taught everybody the music that day. I made the CD and I just have it.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

And only my students will say to me, Why don't you make a CD? And I go, I've made about 40 of them. And they'll be like, Yeah, but one that people listen to. But this gets back to this other thing that I was doing. My cousin said to me when I was making one of my little CDs, he goes, Oh, I see you're getting into the original music game. So I said, Well, here's my first I put on Facebook a picture of me, Frank, Chris Weigers, and Brian Sears in 1994, I think, was my first release. You know, my first thing was a it was a cassette tape. Yeah, cassette. Yeah, it was a cassette tape. And I tell you what, musically speaking, the guy that recorded who I don't want to mention, he was not very good at it. But the the music and the playing, I'll put that again. It's it's I was in a car with I'll mention this guy, Steve Solano. We were driving along. I know that's a good thing. And yeah, he's he's you know, Lincoln Center. He he's he's he's does he's a great he's he's he's he's as you can ask Billy Heller or John Scarpool about him. He can read with the best of me. He's just a great player, he's a great musician, and I've done a lot of gigs with him, luckily, because I hire him, he hires me, blah, blah, blah. But we're in the car and I had to tape in, and my tune is on this one thing called called Samba de Space. And he's like, Man, what is this? I go, Well, that's my and he kind of like, What? Yeah. Because it it's you know, it's good music.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Yeah, you know, it's well, you know what is it's a feel thing too. That's what that's what it is with us, right? Like, so you're a blues guy. I'm I love blues. I love anything that feels good, you know, and and I think that's hard a hard thing to convey is to the layman. A feel, you know. You can a little bit, like you know, my wife's not a musician, and but she understands what what's good and what's not good, but she she has a gap, you know, w in between what real music is and what you know, it's a very weird thing, man. It really is. It's so strange. And it's like it's like we're you know, I've been I I tell this story a lot. We've been I've been out with uh all non-musicians at places where a band is playing, and uh ultimately somebody comes up to me and says, Oh, you're a musician, right? Aren't these guys great? And they're almost always horrible at best. You know what I mean? And and it's like and these guys are working, that's what gets me.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Well, I'll tell you a good one. And I'm only gonna mention his name because he he unfortunately passed away very recently. Joe Rendi is a drummer.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Oh, I know Joe that name.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Yeah, he's he's he worked on you know, he worked he was in Club Day bands and he worked with for a lot of guys that I know. And I was uh back in my younger days when I was actually trying to, you know, like what I think get somewhere, like get a good gig somewhere. This guy from this Good Times magazine came to to see me at this club. He said, Meet me there and we're gonna have an interview. And I said, Okay. So I meet him there, and Joe just happened to show up. And you know, he was playing drums for me a lot at the time. And there was a band on the bandstand, which I will not mention, playing their whatever you want to call it, fusion-y jazzy stuff. And so the guy from The Good Times says, What do you think this band, man? They're great, right? And I don't say anything. And Joe goes like this, these guys fucking suck. I'm like, Joe, I'm getting interviewed here. You're ruining my interview, man. This guy's getting mad at me. And Joe's like, what are you talking about? These guys can't play. And I'm like, Jesus, Joe.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

You know that story with Kent. We did a gig at uh Finley's. Remember Finlay's? Yeah, yeah. So we did a gig at Finley's, I don't know, it was about two years ago, Kenny's band, and and we we were second. There's two bands, and we walked in and the first band was playing, and the place was packed. I mean, Finley's was packed, and the band was just absolutely terrible. I mean, they were I mean, beyond terrible, they were just bad. And in the time it took them to get off, in the time it took them to get off and us to get on,

Wedding Chaos And The Super Bowl Gig

SPEAKER_01 21:30

they the place emptied out. And it was just us. Literally, there was nobody else in the in the place. It was just I mean, they were all there to see their friends.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Well, Billy made a good point about that when he said, Well, if you're a dentist and you've done 4,000 you know, root canals and you tell every one of them you're gonna do a gig, they're all gonna show up, all your clientele is that. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And if you're just a musician, like I say to people all the time, like uh recently I ran into my students, uh parents, one of my students who's actually a really good person. Musician and a good uh guitar player and he's gone to school for it and everything for performance and everything. And and they said, Oh, Willie, where are you playing? And I said, Oh, I'm I'm playing, but I just said I'm not because they're not gonna show up. Right. They just want to make we really want to see you play. I said, Oh yeah. And then meanwhile, I was playing literally a mile from their house, like that weekend, but I didn't I said, Oh, I'm just not playing much right now. Because I'm tired of telling people, everybody asks me, everybody, where are you playing, where you playing, where you playing? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And nobody and you know, they did and and I don't really to be honest with you, I could care less. At this point, I'm 67. I've been doing this for so long. I used to sweat it out. Oh, the owner's gonna be mad, oh the bank guys in the band ain't gonna be, you know, but no, I could get it.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

You know, I'm with you, because I'm right around your same age. I I kind of like don't care at this point. It's just because it's I don't I would I don't know I I don't invite p people down just for that reason, because they don't get it. Some people I mean I shouldn't say some people, but I I mean there are people who just don't get it. And you can't explain it.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

I actually think most people don't get it because unless you're trying to do this, if you get in if you get in with some players, like if I I I could just reel off the names. When you get in with those guys, like you can immediately feel what they're doing, like if like I'll just say, I just did a gig maybe, I don't know, a year ago. You know the guy that makes the ruckus drums, Pete Lazos? Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Pete's a great drummer. Oh, he's a great drummer.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

And I and and and for some reason Frank couldn't do the gig and he's and he asked Pete to do it. And it was one of these cheese at gigs. Nobody there, blah, blah, blah. Pete did the gig. I didn't have to say one word to this guy. I would just look around. I just I just start playing. I'd start. Well, it's the way it's supposed to be, right? Yeah. I you can ask any I hardly ever say sometimes like one of my normal guys will get a little funky with me because I'll just start playing some like I'll even say, like at a uh I'll do I do this all the time. I'll say, I'll say to the crowd, folks, right now I'm gonna play a song I know they had never played before. And we're gonna see if they can play it. And I'll and they'll play through it. They can hear it coming, like I say to people all the time. Well, how can you do that? I said, well, this if I say to you the sky is they go blue, I go, why didn't you say story? Everybody says the sky. The grass is green. You didn't say the grass is green. Oh, that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

That's actually very the musicians know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

They know they're listening for what's coming and they can hear it coming because of the melodic content and the way you're emphasizing things. They play through those tunes, even if they Roy Hazels, Jim Mule, Baba Biden, good, Barry Heller on the list, or drummers you want to name them. I don't have to tell them, and my brother will even say to me all the time, what do you mean you don't, you know, so-and-so's got a band, they practice all the time. Well, they have to. Yeah, that's right. They're learning a four-chord song, but they're trying to get it together. And oh, they're so great. I'm like, great? Go see, you know, you and Ken play. I mean, if they don't get the But they don't, but they don't get that.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

I you know, I went to a um I was at a funeral, like, I don't know, two years ago, and my cousins were there, and my cousin's husband is a I don't know, he's a banker or some shit. I don't know what he does, but talking to him, and he plays, he's got that famous line is I play a little guitar. You know, like here we go. He plays a little guitar, he's got a little band, you know, but he's not a you know, he's not a full-time guy. So I'm at the the funeral, and he says, Yeah, oh yeah, doing gigs, whatever. And this friend was next to me. He goes, This guy, and my friend here, he plays bass in the band. He goes, Oh, hey, we hey look at this piano, bass, and drums. We got three guys right here who could play. And I'm like, No, you can't. You absolutely can't. I was thinking you don't get the difference between you and I. You know what I mean? I I hate to sound like that, but it's true.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Yeah, but you know what also about it, I think that you said why you're saying that is because for I'll give you an example. I used to I do this fundraiser every year at a place. It's a really super venue, good money. And every year, one of the women that run the place, her husband's a bass player. Oh, here we go. And she says, Oh, can you know my husband play one tune with you guys? And I always say, Yeah, it's you know, no problem. Come on up. But the whole point for me is if I've spent, as I'm sure you have, name it. You want to name anybody, Lee, whoever you want to name, Billy, uh, you know, anybody that uh, you know, I did for instance, just uh getting off the subject, but I always do this, but like Danny Miranda, I did one gig with him in my life at a place in Glen Cove, it's no longer there, called Casey's Cove. And you ask him when you see him. I don't hope he'd remember this. We did the one gig together, and we're in there, and some girl with, you know, with you know, I don't know if I should talk about it, has her shirt up over this and has this guy mesmerized. We I knew as long as I kept playing that song, she was gonna keep doing the sniff dance. And we we must have played that song for 25 minutes. Of course, watching this event. I'm surprised you're still not playing it. And it's the only time. But like you ask those those guys have all these type of guys have spent so much time trying to get to a point where they can actually get the feeling happening. That feeling that's like, yes, this is the feeling. And now I've done all this, and you want to just come up and ruin it for five minutes maybe, but with your trying to do it, you know, you th you think you're grooving, you think you're doing something. It's just like me. I don't tell anybody anything. Uh if when anybody asks me, I say I'm a mediocre professional guitar player, which puts me, and I just I tell them this, head and shoulders above all these goofballs. But I am a I'm not gonna go try and do a gig with uh, you know, like these people, you know, like the heavyweight players. I've I've actually been on a couple of gigs where I got hired with I don't even know any of these people's names in Manhattan, and and the guy and the sax player looked at me and said, What are you doing here? And I said, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Well no, but you're you're your niche is you're a blues guy, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:51

So that's actually that's that's how I got started. I've I I played bluegrass for ten years in a band.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

I I I I I Well what's your what what's your your li optimum gig for to for you to be attracted to, what would it would it would it be?

SPEAKER_02 28:05

It would be having Willie, Frank, and Jim or Roy, let's say, and just playing anything I want to play. Right. I might play uh you know, I might play Stardust, I might play uh uh Bill Monroe tune. I and they know it too. They're gonna play anything that I like. If I like it, I want to play it. And I don't want anybody to say to me, hey, this is a jazz gig, or this is like when I go do my f what I call my faux jazz gigs, like I'll do a gig. I'll give you a classic example. Salerno, he's he's he's a this I don't know if there's anybody that could knock him down.

Why Non Musicians Misread Great Playing

SPEAKER_02 28:41

I you know, I'll I I I'll go do a gig with him. I'll give you another great there's a guy in the s a bass player, I gotta think of this guy's name, Dean Johnson.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

He's a I think I've heard that name.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

He's a heavyweight bass player. I mean, he can play arco like a violin. And we get to do this, so I give you an example. This lady goes, Do you do any? We're gonna have a luau. I go, no problem. I call Steve, I go, Steve, let's do this luau. Write up some charts for the for you know I can tell you the tunes, Hawaiian Paradise, uh Little Brown Gal, all the tunes, you know, lovely hula hands, all the charts. And Solana's famous for his charts, you know, where you only need one chord, he's got seven, you know. And we get to this this this luau, and we finish the first tune, and I look to this to Steve and I say, Steve, tell your friend here that I pay no attention to bar line's meter or he goes like this. He already knows. But the point is I'll just do uh I I personally just want to play music that I like, whether it's you know, like do I uh I'll I'll I'll say it on your podcast. Like, for instance, I don't particularly like a lot of RB. I'm not an RB guy. Really?

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Because see people see now I would think that you would, because it's similar in s in ways to if you said to me, if you said to me Sam Cook, I l I do Sam Cook tunes and I love it.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

If you said to me James Brown, I kinda I don't really you know, or or like, you know, knocking on wood, knock on wood, all that old like I just can't get with that. Not that I don't like it, kind of, but you're saying I can't do it. I can do I can do Cupid, I'll tell you that now. Yeah. You know, draw back your bow, I'll do that tune, and I feel happy doing it, I love it. And like that's what I'm saying. And if I uh so recently I've done some gigs, some trio gigs, why not some other gigs with the uh some personnel have been brought into the to the environment and I'll play something pretty simple. I'll say, look, this is in A. And as soon as I started, if you don't hear what I'm doing, uh you know and it's been a rough road, and I think like for instance, Barry Heller. Yeah. I call him the million dollar.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

I love Barry Heller. All the Hellers. I just saw I just saw all three of them at a party. Look, Greg Schleik's uh 70th birthday party.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

They were all there. I c when I by the time I get to Barry, I'm I'm kinda getting not because of him, because I don't like to bother guys. Yeah. But if I have to call Barry, I'm Barry, I'm sorry about it, but I'm kind of stuck. I would not I will have a good time. And Barry I'd have to play with him once a year, maybe. But he'll show up, he'll just hear what I'm doing, he'll play it. And that's the way it should be, right? I mean that's Well, if you're gonna tell me that you're a musician and you're and I'm not, I tell people I'm mediocre. These guys I'm I am you know, I mean, you know, like I look at the guys I love, the like Danny Gatton or somebody like that, or Jimmy Bryant, or people that I really, you know, love their what the their whole thing is unbelievable. Or modern people too, like like all the people that Billy names, I don't know any of those people. I don't listen to anything like that. I don't listen to Tower of Power, I don't listen to like this, you'll you'll crack up. I tell people, I like I just told a guy the other day, I said, Well, I don't really like Stevie Wonder.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Why see they get offended by that.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Yeah, I'm like, well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Because it's a person it's very it's it's like it's somehow Stevie Wonder speaks to them and now you you Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Like I said, I'd r much rather listen to Sam Cook. Yeah. If I if I have to spend my time.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

I mean, uh I I don't it's it's such a weird you know what I really don't like is the this th for forever there's been this thing where people uh music uh especially as a profession is just not a good way to go and it's looked down upon almost like even in the public schools. I I was a teacher for 32 years. And you know, I I got my degree like the science teacher did, but I was treated differently because I taught music and it's it's so weird.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

And it's so funny because this uh you ought to check this out. I'm not telling you to, but you should check it out. If you go on YouTube and look up black and white really well recorded uh uh bands like Noble Sicily and all these guys from the from the from from the twenties, in the twenties, twenty-four, twenty-five, twenty-six, really good recordings. These guys are great players. And back then, before all the all the transference of life in general on the planet has happened, you know, th I'm not gonna say I'll give you I'll just put it this way. I was reading a book once and or actually I was listening to it it might have been a book. I think it was a book. But the author was saying wherever Louis Armstrong went, he was called. He didn't look for anything. People were calling him. Just like Billy Sellett, you know, people are calling him. Even in my l small environment, people call me and they'll say, Hey, can you you know, and you're getting called. You know, and you said I think you were saying it on another podcast, like if you show up, you better be able to. You know, I would never you know, one time Willie Pollock he was telling me, I went for this audition for this thing, and I would never do that. I'm not no I'm not that

The Feel Factor And Playing By Ear

SPEAKER_02 33:55

yeah, I'm not gonna show up. Can you do this? I do what my problem or my greatest asset is I only do what I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Well, that's great though.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

I said I said to a guy who you'd know, and I'm not gonna mention his name recently. But he mentioned he's playing 10,000 seat arenas, and I go, Well, when do you play what you want to play? I've never done that. Yeah, that's all.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

See, that is the problem. That is the problem. And like I get called to the for me, I mean Matt Miller did the podcast and he said it right. It's like there's there's only three reasons why you'd go to a gig, and it's it's your bros, like your friends are doing it, or it's the music is great and the pay is shitty, or the music is shitty and the pay is great. It's one that's one of the reasons why you go. Like I like I do have a price. Like I'll if you want to pay me a lot of money, I'll go do whatever this terrible thing is. You know, I'm sorry to say that. Well that's why the club dates, I mean, club dates, you know, it's it's the bastardization of music.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Well, you know, the funny thing about club dates is that I think that a lot of club date bands, I don't know this, but this is my general thing, is they want to sound like a lot like the record. Oh, yeah. So you have to learn the me, I'll give you another example. One day I I I these people going, play uh what's that song? Uh Mustang Sally Mustang Sally. Mustang Sally. So I played it in minor. Oh yeah. So I just played it in minor. Yeah. So so I just started playing it like a reggae uh minor tune, you know. Yeah. And like everybody in the band just went right along with it. They just they're just doing what I'm, you know, like and as you as you're saying, like, if you if no one's gonna call me to do a gig and give me a thousand dollars to, you know, for my guitar playing skills or my vocal skills or any of that. But the fact that I just do what I want to do, and it's I guess I think that's that says a lot.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah, but I really do.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

I think I think like I play right now I'm playing at this place which I would like to mention, Charlotte's Speakeasy in Farmingdale. The owners are John and Nick, and they are great guys. I've heard people complain about it. You really then don't do the gig. You know what it is. I show up, I love it there because they let me play anything. They never say nothing. The only thing they might say to me is uh, and this is one of my little things, I call the band the Whispering Pines. People say, What's your band? I say the Whispering Pines. Because when these guys with their earplugs in are playing three times too loud, I can go, We're the Whispering Pines, folks. And then that means we're whispering here, not shouting. You know, like I'm trying to tell I want to find a way to let them know, can we because he's giving me the area, but that's about it. It does if there's places in past, but usually in that place I can play anything I want. And uh since I'm having a really great time, I guess people have a good time. The owners are happy, everybody's happy. And I booked me up there all the time. I just did two gigs there this weekend. That's great, man.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

I mean that's I mean, there's a lot to be said for that. Do you do gigs that you can play what you want to play on?

SPEAKER_02 36:56

Only what I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

I mean, that's that's priceless. I mean, uh it really is, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:00

It's kind of weird, but that's my whole shtick. I'm only gonna do what I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

That's so cool. I think that's so cool because a lot of us well, a lot of musicians don't have a choice but to play stuff they don't like, right? I mean, because you gotta make money. And however that whatever the gig is, you've got to kind of conform.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

I will tell you the same thing I'm I I I tell a friend of mine who you know, but I don't want to mention his name.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Again, this is not a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

I don't want I don't want to make anybody feel like I'm talking about them, but I say to him all the time, he's a drummer. Start your own band, call it the let's say your name is Johnny Joe. Call it the Johnny Joe band and do it. Because this guy is playing a million gigs a year, and he's not the happiest camper out there. Because he's always dealing with and he'll sit there and say, This guy did this, this guy did the bass player can't do that. And I'll say, Well, hire like like I would say that to anybody. Yeah. Start the bass. And you know what's funny?

SPEAKER_01 37:46

As I have actually thought of that at this point in my life, but I just I'm too tired. Yeah, that's another thing. You know, you gotta like deal with other people and and then you gotta worry about getting guys that don't 100% like what you like. You know, and they're gonna and then they're kind of sacrificing.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

You know what's funny though, you said that you said you said, and you know what I mean, like your your your your your bros or your buddies. Like like in do you know who Jay Rosen is? He's good buddies with Cherubino.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

He lives in the city. He he's he'd be a great he I don't think he'd come out here, but I think you did Leon like like uh uh

Only Playing What You Want

SPEAKER_02 38:20

computer talk.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Oh, I did a couple of uh well I uh Ozzy did it via um I don't know if Jay would come out, but you could ask Cherubino about him.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

He's a very he's a he's a very interesting guy, and uh he I played gigs with him on the biggest.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Oh, maybe I'll do it I'll try that.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

He he's played with good great, great players. I'll give you a funny story on on him. I was doing a gig with him, Jay Rosen, Chris Weigers, me, that was the unit, and two sax players, Brian Sears, who passed away recently, who's a great player, and John Scarpooler. That was the band, and we played at a dump in Bayville. So bass, guitar drums, and two sacks. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, and we d just to give you an idea of of what's going on in Willie Steel World, we used to do a whole lot of love by Led Zeppelin. But when it comes to the break when it goes bum, bum, and the guitar solo comes, we go bum, bum, and we'd go into the Charlie Parker tune, boo-doop ba-doo loot and do bao doo doo boot boo. That's correct. Just to show you this, like that to me was like I could care less we were making. I mean, why and like you're saying, well, John did it with me. Yeah. Brian, and they did Brian lived in Queens or somewhere, or Brooklyn. Yeah. And so, like, that's why you're saying if you're friend if they're your friends and they want to get together with you. I I mean, I advocate that for you and for anybody. Like, do your own thing because I'm much happier doing my thing than playing it at 10,000. I actually used to, when I got started, I got in this, believe it or not, I was the only guy in an all-girls band. I was. So it wasn't really an all-girls band. Well, it was supposed to be, but the guitar player fell out and they needed somebody, and I was doing these gigs with them. And I couldn't stand that. I mean, these places were oh, you want to hear a really good story? This is a good one. This is what I was getting started before I was taking lessons. I had my first little band going, and I could-that's what I mean about me. I got a call from this guy in United Group Harmony in New Jersey. Big place. All the 50s bands played there. Concerts, concerts. Hey, we heard about you. You can you come out to Jersey with your band? You guys read? I go, yeah. Of course, yeah, whatever you want. We got there. None of us can read nothing. He opens it up. They put charts in front of you. Big book. Yeah. Oh, first tune, page 412. We open it up, he goes, and he's got his little keyboard, ready boys, one, two. We just look at it.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

He goes, Oh, I've tried again. One, two. He's trying to get looking at it. Out of the corner, out of the dark, comes, remember that guy that sang the song? They often call me Speedo, but my real name is Mr. Earl Speedo Cal. No, I don't know that's the 50s tune. It was a big hit. I've heard it all my life. He comes out of the corner with a cigar. I knew these motherfuckers couldn't read. And I'm telling you, we got through that gig. I'm telling you, but to show you that what I'm talking about is when we finished that gig, people in the fur crow was screaming, hi Dan, because we tore that place down. Because I'll tell you what, I didn't know what an MD was, you know. But this guy goes, Don't worry, I'll get these guys. And he showed us everything. He talked us through everything. We were in this tunnel down underneath, and he talked us through everything. And we, you know, we did a pretty good job, whatever that little unit I had at the time was, but none of us were really even now. I'd never tell anybody I'm a great musician. I'm a mediocre, professional guitar player. That's what I'm if you want to do a jazz gig and you have charts, I could probably get through it. If you want to do a you know, whatever it is, it between the.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

But see, there's there's it's there's I think there's plenty of guys who like technically are great who missed the point. You know, I mean, especially drummers. Man, I got a I got a hard arm for some drummers. I mean, they just I just so many guys wait a minute, let me say something.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

I know I'm interrupting you, and I'm sorry, but I want to just say I told Ken even, the first time we played, I really don't didn't don't remember that much, but when you guys we just did that gig, I thought, man, John is so relaxed back there. I freaking love it.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah, well, I don't I didn't I felt that connection.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

No, no, I I'll tell you what, they were you guys were playing and you you guys did it did this hit on two out of nowhere was like all this minute and one bang, you and I thought, wow, this guy's on it. That's Kenny's shit. I know, but you were on it and I cracked up. I thought, oh, this guy he's not just effing around back there. I mean that you all went bang on two, and nobody's staring at a chart. I and and like I said, I even told people.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Well there were charts initially. We have to I have charges. No, but I'm saying you weren't staring at a boat, you know, a music stand like this.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

And it cracked me up, but you were very relaxed, which I really, you know, to me it's like let's if you're not gonna relax and have a good time, I mean, just uh I don't know, you're gonna be up. I could name some drummers that r that are ultra relaxed and I

Reading Charts And Surviving Big Gigs

SPEAKER_02 42:55

I think great like take Lee Finkelstein. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Lee but see, but there you go. Lee's a prime example of very much. Very relaxed when he plays. This guy's got technical ability and he knows what to play when to play it. There is there is a whole demographic of drummers on Long Island, I think, who are study more about playing fast and g the the the solos than playing the groove. You know what I mean? Like, I mean there's a whole crop of them. Like, you know, like what you the solo's unbelievable, and then it goes back to the groove and like it's falls apart. I that's I've seen that.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

I call that the anti-groove.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

The anti-groove.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

I'll give you a good example. I'm not gonna mention any names.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

I'm not gonna I'm gonna call this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Steve Klein. Steve Klein did my after party at my wedding. He's one of my buddies. You ask him. I Steve did the podcast, yeah. Yeah, I listened to it. And me and him, he goes to me one day, he goes, I I called him, I said, Steve, I got this gig out here. They want to hear reggae music, so you want to do it? He goes, Yeah. So I'm out there, I think Jim was doing it with me and Willie, and we're playing my fake reggae tunes, you know. And uh we and I my nickname for Steve is Shuffle because If you can't play a strong shuffle, I don't I don't want to. That's the number one.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

And a lot of drummers don't get the shuffle. They don't get how to play a shuffle.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Well, I know. So I call him shuffle when we crack up all the time. So we're sitting there playing this reggae stuff, and the owner comes over. He goes, You guys are great. He goes, it's too bad, man, because I got this other club and I'm looking for a blues band. And me and Steve look at each other and go, blues! Blues, we lose into a couple. We got hired that he goes, You guys we went over and did the other club. It was just so funny. I know Steve for like, man, 40 years or something. Yeah, he's he's he's a character, and he's a really, really great drummer. And he's in I've seen him in all sorts of I've seen him in all is that the single for uh The Money Coming In payday.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

The money's rolling in. Yeah, so um w I I just wanted to make one other point. What what do you think about um like what's going on today in music?

SPEAKER_02 44:59

I mean it's well see none of that affects me. Yeah I I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

I know, but you you know it's bizarre, like this, especially the AI stuff.

SPEAKER_02 45:05

I see I I I I have no Instagrams or anything. I have no I just had a fight with the my anyway. Uh I I don't care. If people wanna you know, if people want to have road rage, if people want to you know uh the guy at the end of the block here I cracked up when I saw him, I'm like, okay, then you that's what you want to do. You know, if that's what you want to do, you know, uh put that stuff up and make your which guy at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Oh the guy, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

Like you want to be like that, that's your business. I I know look at like I've only like kind of recently met you, even though I've heard your name for 30 years. If if I if I if I said I I wouldn't hesitate to say, oh John, can I do this gig with me? You know what I mean? Like to get somebody like that like you're saying. Because I just want to do my gigs.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

I mean, I rarely. I take it more per I I take it personally where if I see somebody destroying music, I it's like they're hitting my kid. You

Drummers Who Groove Versus Show Off

SPEAKER_01 46:05

know, like and I can't help that. I just like oh I'm gonna be able to do that. Just stop. Please just stop.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Yeah, but yeah, again, like for your your whole adult life of of deal of playing music all the time. You've played music basically your whole life. You say it all the time. It would be like me going into a uh a surgeon's conference and trying to deal with them and say, yeah, you know, uh I didn't like the stitch you put on that aorta there, Johnny. Uh you know, I wasn't feeling that. Oh, yeah, yeah. And and and and and and I I mainly deal with it with a lot of people that are close to me in my life that unlike my beautiful darling wife, who I'm gonna mention it to you. Is she a musician? No, but uh I'll give you the first time I walked in her apartment, I just started looking through her CDs and I saw Madonna, and I was like, what the hell is this? And even though I love Paul Pesco, he's a great guy. I mean, uh you know he's a he's a great guitar player. And I hope Paul doesn't get mad at me, but I mean you if you said we're gonna give you a million dollars to do this tour, I would say no. No, I have no time. It's not my rights. That's it. That's integrity. People don't it's not I don't really I just don't I just don't want to stick with the I just wish I could be you.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

I I agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

But I don't my whole thing is my ultim my fulfillment is not monetary. It's just and I could name guys what I don't want to You don't want to name names. Well I could say there's guys uh I don't like like take Pat Ambrosio who's supposed in the funk band. Yeah. I love playing with that guy. Or or or or or or his his band was like Little Wilson and he did funk too. All those guys, all those guys in that those bands are I could call any one of those guys. They're all great at they're just great. Even if they don't understand, because I'm into a lot of actually a lot of music. Like I play I love Western, I have a Western swing band that I used to I used to do weddings with a Western swing band. Oh wow Bob Wills music doing Western swinging.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

Yeah, you know Western swing was a thing.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Oh man, yeah. Bob Wills and the Texas Playboy. If I could be in one band in my life, I gotta look that up. And the Texas Playboys, you put them on, man. Those boys were swinging up a stone. Matter of fact, I'll just kick throw this out there as one of my little pet talk about a pet peeve. Everybody talks about Charlie Christian, Charlie Christian. Where did he grow up? In Oklahoma. Oklahoma, yeah. Listening to what? Western swing. And his main guy was a guy named Deke somebody, who was a Western swing guitar player. Yeah, Deke somebody. I forget the guy's name really, but now it's been so long. But uh you know, people cite Charlie Christian, Charlie Christian. Yeah, well, guess what? He grew up in Oklahoma listening to Western swing music. You know, and he said it, and that's his his thing. Those boys swing hard, right? And they played great, oh, they're great tunes. The tunes are so funny. They're just the funniest tunes.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

You know, yeah. Well, look, man, um we're sort of coming to the end here. I no, that that was great,

Music Today Integrity And Western Swing

SPEAKER_01 48:55

great shit. You just I mean, I I loved all that, and I agree with you on on everything that you say.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

It just I it's uh it it's lost on some people, but I gotta give you this one quick one because it's with Lee Finkelstein. I didn't know Lee was living in Jersey. Yeah. And I get like I said, now I would call you. I didn't have your number or anything. I couldn't get anybody. I call I thought Lee was living in Hempstead or something. I'll tell you after this is all.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Go ahead, no, no, tell me the story.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

So I call Lee and I go, Lee, listen, I got this gig. It's just a private partner back, 150 bucks. I think he's in Hempstead. He goes, you know, I'm not working with it, I'll do it. And he's coming from Jersey. But he comes from Jersey. So meanwhile, I don't want to tell the guys in the band it's Lee because they'll be excited. So I go, I I say to them, I got this guy from Jersey. This guy from Jersey. I got this guy from No, I didn't say that. I didn't know he was in Jersey. I said, I got this guy, Fred Lee. You ever heard of him? They're like, no, Fred Lee, I got him on a recommend. They go, okay. We're out front loading in, and all of a sudden Lee pulls up. These guys like, we're so freaking happy. You had Fred Lee. I was calling him like, hey Fred, man.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

I'm gonna call him Fred Lee from now on. Oh, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

I I'm not trying to be disrespectful to him anyway. I just was so funny. The the things that you know that you would know from dealing with stuff over

Final Stories And Thanks

SPEAKER_02 50:10

a musical lifetime, you know. Yeah, yeah. That's you know.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

All right, Willie Steele, man. Thanks for being here. I really appreciate it, man. This is this is a good one. Thanks a lot.