Tuning Into Excellence with Scott Millson

In this episode of The Better Leadership Team Show, I talk with retired executive and Navy veteran Scott Millson, author of The Frequency of Excellence. We explore how leaders can “tune into excellence” by cultivating a growth mindset, fostering mentorship, and leading with reflection and humor. Scott shares his powerful B5 Framework and insights from decades of leadership experience — including why culture is the shadow of the leader, how to use feed forward instead of feedback, and why laughter may be one of the most underrated leadership tools.

Thanks for listening! Connect with us at mike-goldman.com/blog and on Instagram@mikegoldmancoach and on YouTube @Mikegoldmancoach

Chapters

• 2:07 Discussing Leadership Qualities
• 3:13 Inspiration Behind 'Frequency of Excellence'
• 5:12 The Growth Mindset and Tuning into Excellence
• 11:11 The B5 Framework for Learning
• 15:01 The Importance of Mentorship
• 18:52 Challenges of Modern Mentorship
• 21:24 Leaders as Mentors
• 23:14 The Dual Frequency of Leadership
• 24:06 Culture as a Force Multiplier
• 26:26 The Power of a Laughing Leader
• 29:52 Feed Forward vs. Feedback
• 33:52 The Importance of Mentorship
• 39:07 Embedding Excellence in Your Organization
• 40:41 Scott's Work and Contact Information

Transcript

Scott Millson: 0:02

I am nothing without the mentors that shaped me. Period. End of sentence, full stop. I'm also grateful for is my father early in my career encouraged me to do that. He said, seek out mentors, like seek'em out, like lean into them. But the other thing he told me that I think is really powerful,'cause I think this exists today, we've got a mentorship gap in the United States today. I read a study it was a 2019 study that said that. There's a gap that exists in our country today because, 80% of people know that mentorship is important, yet only 37% of people would say they have a mentor.

Mike Goldman: 0:42

You made it to the better leadership team show, the place where you learn how to surround yourself with the right people, doing the right things. So you can grow your business without losing your mind. I'm your host and leadership team coach, Mike Goldman. I'm going to show you how to improve top and bottom line growth, fulfillment, and the value your company adds to the world by building a better leadership team. All right, let's go.

Mike: 1:14

Scott Millson is a mostly retired executive who has dedicated the second half of his career to helping people find their frequency of excellence and grow their careers. He has held many titles along the way, including founder, president, partner owner, chief operating officer, and before all those. Petty Officer Second class, US Navy Scott has worked with and for world class organizations and leaders. Now as an author, keynote speaker and dedicated encourager, he spends his days helping others tune into their everyday, but not always obvious, crucial lessons of life and leadership. And today we're gonna talk about his book. And for those of you watching this on video, you'll see I'm holding it up. His book, the Frequency of Excellence. Scott, welcome to the show.

Scott Millson: 2:03

Thank you so much for having me on, Mike. I really appreciate the opportunity to be here.

Mike: 2:07

Yeah. Looking forward to diving in, from all of your experience, Scott, obviously from your intro, a whole lot of experience. What do you believe is the one most important characteristic of a great leadership team?

Scott Millson: 2:19

Yeah, so I have been fortunate, and that's probably the best way for me to say it. I've been fortunate to work with just some unbelievable, with some unbelievable organizations and within some unbelievable, leadership teams. And I would say the number one thing that I've found that I keep coming back to, and I've tried to. Replicate and emulate, you know, throughout my career is alignment. Kind of having that shared vision where everybody's on the boat and everybody's rowing in the same direction.'cause when you got that, the opportunities for excellence are limitless. You know, when you get everybody together that's kind of thinking similarly, et cetera, is just unbelievable. The opportunities that are there and they present themselves. so yeah, it's I'd say alignment is probably the number one thing for me.

Mike: 2:57

Excellent and what I see very often is. The CEO or the leader of a team believes there's alignment, but they need to hear from the rest of the team in order to really determine whether there's alignment or not. So, so important. what, Scott, what inspired you to write frequency of excellence? You said you're mostly retired, so it sounds like you didn't have to do this. What was the inspiration for it?

Scott Millson: 3:24

Yeah. So for me, I, so I read a great book towards the end of my career as I was thinking about retirement, I read this great book by Arthur Brooks, and I don't know if you know Arthur Brooks. Brilliant man, Harvard professor, social scientist, just brilliant guy. Something I would never have in terms of that brain power. But he wrote this great book called From Strength to Strength. And in that book he talks about. we have two curves of our lives, or at least he encourages us to have two curves of our lives in the first curve, we are striving to be the best that we can. And every CEO or any president you've ever worked with, any leadership team, they're all striving to be the best at whatever it is that they do. And we're working on our resume virtues in that first curve. But there comes a point at which you start to drop off. You know, whether you're losing motivation, losing focus, maybe it's your intellect, whatever it is, you begin to kind of drop. And if you don't find a second curve, you can kind of drive yourself into the ground. And so his encouragement is to find that second curve. And so, as I was considering, okay, I'm coming towards the end of this first curve. What is my second curve? so I found it. And so for me, what he talks about in the book is he talks about these, you know, the resume virtues that you're working on in, in, that first curve. In the second curve you're working on sounds morbid, but your eulogy virtues. And so for me, I just said, what is it that I want to give back? And, you know, I was fortunate again because of all those wonderful organizations with whom I worked and the people with whom I worked. I just wanted to share the lessons that were shared with me. I wanted to share'em with others. And so that really became the driver for me with the book was I spent that first curve of my life being a sponge, and I just collected everything when I was around excellence, I just. I tuned into their frequency and I just, I gathered all that information. It's time for me to now squeeze the sponge and share back with others what I was, so fortunate to receive in the first curve.

Mike: 5:12

So what is the big overriding message of frequency of excellence?

Scott Millson: 5:17

Yeah, it's really a growth mindset to kind of boil it all down. It is really is a growth mindset. And so you know what the, if you remember car stereos in the 19 hundreds, you and I might be of similar age, so you remember that right hand knob, right? Yeah. You didn't have presets, you didn't have a digital readout, and so my. My favorite radio station growing up was Rock 104 outta Gainesville, Florida, which was 103.7 on the radio dial. And you had a hundred, and you had a 104. You didn't have a 103.7, so you had to play with that knob in order to dial it in to get onto the right frequency. And I think, you know, a mentor shared that with me. this metaphor, this kind of, idea is. Excellence surrounds us, and we just have to be dialed into the right frequency in order to hear. It's like that radio wave. If you don't have that tuner, you're missing it. All you're getting is static. And so, you know, really the message that I'm conveying and trying to tell people is when you've got a growth mindset, when you're a constant learner, trying to figure out what you can do to better yourself today than you were yesterday, or that you were last year. I think you've got that growth mindset. And so if you can have the ability to enter into any situation saying, what am I gonna learn from this person or from this situation? And then have the ability to kind of add that into your being, you know, again, the opportunity to witness excellence is there when you got it down in that right frequency and then you're able to store that for downstream use. It just, the opportunities are limitless then.

Mike: 6:41

I love that. So the idea is opportunities are everywhere. We just need to find a way to tune into it. It makes me think of way back when I started my first business back got, over, well over 20 years ago, and I was told You have to go out there and network. You gotta network. And I hated networking. I'm really good with people I know I'm horrible walking up and talking to, or was horrible at walking up and talking to somebody I didn't know. And one of the things I learned is to kind of almost psych myself up before walking into that networking meeting. That opportunities were everywhere. So if I found someone that already had someone, you know, if I was, you know, once I was in my coaching business, if I found someone that said, oh yeah, you're a coach. I already have a coach. Well, if I wasn't looking for opportunity, I'd say, well, crap, this was a waste of a conversation. He can't be a client of mine. But the other way I started looking at it is, wow, this is someone who believes in coaching. This is the perfect person to talk to because maybe they can introduce me to somebody else.

Scott Millson: 7:47

yeah, totally. And then the other thing too is maybe you can even connect with that coach and learn from them. So Right. Somebody that obviously has done this, has done it well enough that they've got a client of customer, the similar customer that you'd like to receive. You know, and I've found that people are so willing to give, you know, that if you can meet somebody that's doing something that you aspire to be, whether it's a particular role or they've got a skillset, just ask the question and say, Hey, I'd love to pick your brain on what you've done and what the pitfalls were. How did you get, how did you get started? How are you winning business? You know, what do you finding is the most difficult thing you're coaching people on today? And then it's an opportunity to learn. So to your point, you've got, you're dialed into that frequency. And if you weren't, you'd hit, you'd hear static, right? When you had that conversation, to your point, you'd have been like, I'm out. You know, I'm out. I'm, you know, nice meeting this person, but they're not gonna be able to help me. So I'll go move to the other side of the room. And instead you get curious and you go, let's just double down on that. Let's see what I can learn from them or from their coach. So yeah, if you've dialed into the right frequency, the opportunities are there.

Mike: 8:46

in your book, you talk about something you call reflective leadership. Un unpack that. What? What does that mean?

Scott Millson: 8:53

Yeah. So for me, again, it's because I was surrounded with excellence. I knew that I'm an every man, generally speaking, like I am an every man. I'm a career B student. I knew as I started my professional career in 1990 that I was never gonna be the smartest person in the room, but I could outlearn everybody and outwork everybody, and that kind of became my superpower. So my ability to kind of. Learn from others that were around me. And then reflect. Reflect on it, right? So reflect on what I just learned, what I just saw. And you know, there is something called the power of the pause, right? So when you see something that is excellent and stirs a passion within you, you know, you kind of get a shot of dopamine. It stores in your brain that way, but it only encodes if you take the moment to pause and to reflect on that. And so for me, you know, my career is, I just, I, you know, as I was writing the book, actually the working title I had was called My Leadership Mosaic because I am made up of all those pieces and I've made a mosaic of all the people that I, you know, surrounded myself with. And so that, that is my reflection, you know, it's reflective leadership is taking all those lessons in, storing them in your brain and then using'em. Later. And so if I was in a sales situation or a leadership situation or a difficult client situation, I reflected on what I saw somebody else do, and I would go, that's right. This is how Brian handled that in that moment. Let me use that. And, you know, then I would tinker with it and have it become my own. But I'm just a reflection of those with whom I've had the pleasure of working.

Mike: 10:21

How do we make sure, I mean, there's so many things every day that if we're really. Tuned into the right frequency. To use your metaphor, there's so many things every day that are learning opportunities for us. People, situations, successes, failures. I is there a way you've seen that works? You know, maybe it's journaling every day. I don't know what it is, but how do we make sure we don't let that those lessons fly by without grabbing hold of them?

Scott Millson: 10:52

Yeah, so it's funny you asked that'cause I, as I was writing the book and after I did that, now I've kind of launched into a speaking career. I kept getting the question of, well. To that point, how do you play with that tuner? How do I know when I enter in a situation, what can I do to make sure that I'm dialed into the right frequency? So I came up with what I call the B five framework. And so the B five framework is five B statements that you can use kind of action statements of things you can do when you enter a situation to make sure that you're gonna learn in that situation. So, so the first one is to be intentional. Be intentional to people with whom you surround yourself when you surround yourself with excellence. Your opportunity to witness excellence increases dramatically. And so it's the old adage of iron sharpens iron high tide, lift salt boats. You know, show me your friends, I'll show you your future. When you surround yourself with people that, that demonstrate excellence, and you're intentional about that, the opportunities again, become limitless. And then when you are intentional with that, be present. And so it's overstated today. You know, everybody said you gotta be present, and that's true. But when you're with somebody, truly listen more than you speak. I call it the new 80 20 rule, which is, listen, 80% talk 20%, and when you do that. The opportunity for you to kind of really hear what's going on when you're present and you're really active listening with people, actively listening. Again, that's your tuner. And then when you are present, be curious. And so that's the third. B is to be curious, and I think it's an under-utilized superpower today that we're not curious enough. You know, I had a mentor one time, we were prepping for a big meeting in New York City and in the middle of, he asked me a question and I started rambling and going off on a tangent and he said under his breath. A Latin phrase and I was like, I barely speak pig Latin. Like I don't speak Latin. Like unpack that. So at the end of it I was curious and I asked him, I said, mark, what did you whisper there? You said something like Eloqua ad, what is that? And he goes, it speak with a purpose. And basically what he was doing, it was in a very kind way kind of hammering me. Dude, you gotta stop wandering. You're just filling the words with air. You're not having a real thesis to your words. And that was a turning point in my communication career. And, but it only happened because I was present. Also, I was curious and I asked a question of like, what does that mean? I could have just let it go and been like, okay, whatever that guy said, you know, and let it go, but I didn't. and then being bold is about learning is leaning into your failures. You know, I've had a career filled with failures, as much failure as I've had success. but I've used those scars, you know, I've healed those open wounds and I've used those scars to, to help me in the future. And so being bold is the fourth one. And then the last one is, we talked earlier about being reflective. You know, embracing the power of the pause and allowing that to encode in our brains. You know, the hippocampus stores are short term and our long term memories, and you gotta pause. Otherwise it doesn't shift from short term to long term. And in order to be successful, you gotta have those memories and those long term things that you can call upon. So that, yeah, that defi framework. Yeah.

Mike: 13:51

I'm gonna, I wrote those down. I love these podcasts. I'm,'cause I'm like, to me it's like I'm learning from all these teachers every time I do a podcast. So I wrote these down and I wanna just summarize them again for, or at least restate them again for folks.'cause I think it's so powerful just when you are entering into a. Conversation, meeting a new person, new project, new business, new client, new whatever you're doing. The B five was be intentional, be present, be curious, be bold and be reflective. That's so, so powerful. Now in, in going through your books, Scott. So many different things that cover, you know, leadership and management and career and sales and all these things. and I wanna, I don't wanna try and focus on all those in the time we've got, but I wanna focus on a few, That I know were relevant for me, and I'm assuming if they're relevant for me, they're relevant to my audience. So I'm just gonna dive deep on a few things and have you unpack it. One is, you know, you talk about, you know, speaking of being reflective, you talk about, seeking mentors and building your own reflection. Collection, which sounds like that mosaic you were talking about. but go dig a little deeper for us on the idea of reflection collection and, you know, how, how you go out and find those mentors and how you leverage those mentors.

Scott Millson: 15:12

Yeah, I am nothing without the mentors that shaped me. Period. End of sentence, full stop. Like I, I am so grateful to the mentors that shaped me, but what I'm also grateful for is my father early in my career encouraged me to do that. He said, seek out mentors, like seek'em out, like lean into them. But the other thing he told me that I think is really powerful,'cause I think this exists today, we've got a mentorship gap in the United States today. I read a study that was a, it was a 2019 study that said that. There's a gap that exists in our country today because, 80% of people know that mentorship is important, yet only 37% of people would say they have a mentor. And so what is that gap like? Why does that exist? And I think a lot of it is people are looking for a formalization. Maybe it's HR comes down and says, Hey, Mike, you're gonna be mentored by this person, right? Tom's gonna be your mentor. Sally's gonna be your mentor. You know, work with them. And if people are waiting for that to happen, I think they're missing an opportunity because I've had 50 mentors. I can name'em, you know, right off the top of my head. People that guided my career and were really. Inspirational and helpful for me. Not in one of those situations did I ever go up to them and say, Hey, will you mentor me? It was an organic relationship that developed over time by me working with somebody saying they're at a place or they're doing something that I aspire to, to be or to have. And so. I would just watch'em, I would listen to them. I would be curious around them. You know, those are the people that I just started saying, I want to be like that. I wanna take, you know, take their skills and do that. And so over time a real nice relationship developed. I mean, I've got some mentors that I still today, I haven't seen in 20 years. But I'll pick up the phone and I'll call'em and I say, Hey, I'm considering doing X, Y, or Z. What do you think? and that only became because of that relationship and there was a trust there, and there was just a wonderful relationship that developed over time. And so yeah, I, I sought out mentors. but again, never really all that formal, I never had a certificate on my wall that said, John is Scott's mentor. They've completed this mentorship program, check the box. It doesn't, it didn't exist. And, and I think they're more powerful because they happened organically and we really leaned into one another.

Mike: 18:46

I wonder if it's a bit more difficult today, and let me run this by you. What's going through my head is back. You know, I just turned 60 this year and so I, you know, I have, you know, 35 plus years out there in the business world and back when you actually. W what? When before remote and hybrid work. Now there are a lot more folks going back to work now, which I back to a physical location, which I think is a good thing. But whe before remote and hybrid work like you'd. You chat with people in the hallway, you chat with people before the meeting. After the meeting, it was easy to say, Hey, I'd, you know, I'd love to bend your ear on a few things. Why don't we, you know, you free for lunch today. You free for lunch tomorrow. And these days, so much of what we do is you are on a Zoom call or a teams call, and then the call is over and you go back to work. so it feels to me like we've got to be a lot more purposeful in seeking those folks out because they may not happen as, it may not happen as naturally as maybe it did 5, 10, 25 years ago.

Scott Millson: 19:58

yeah. No doubt. I mean, I would say that, today's world is more difficult if you've not met somebody. So in, in those 50 scenarios where I had 50 mentors, probably 48 of'em are people that I had. Pressed palms with, right? I had worked alongside, we had sweat together, we had, you know, shared blood together on different projects. And so there was real depth that kind of came from that relationship. there, there were a couple though, that are people that, candidly, I've never met face to face. It's somebody that I had a relationship with, either on a project of some sort, but we never really formally met. That's probably later in my career as kind of Zoom and other things came about. But it's somebody once again that I leaned in on that relationship and said they are doing something, or they are, they're performing in a manner in which I want to do that. And so it is more difficult for sure. It's not impossible, but it is more difficult. And it is an encouragement for people that if you are hybrid. Take those opportunities to, to find an opportunity to get to the head office or to go to the sales meeting, or to go to the leadership retreat, whatever it is, don't buy, don't miss those opportunities to press palms to, you know, to meet somebody. To sit eye, to eye with somebody, to develop a relationship that is more, based, more so than virtual based. And so don't miss those opportunities'cause they are there. And, I do think they are the foundation of a really strong relationship that could exist.

Mike: 21:18

I think it also means as leaders and most folks listening to this podcast or are leaders at some level as leaders, let's be proactive and. Mentor folks, find those folks to mentor. Don't, you know, don't necessarily wait. what do you think of that? You know, as leaders, how can we be more proactive and find those opportunities to mentor someone else?

Scott Millson: 21:48

Yeah, I love that, that the frequency of excellence is a dual signal, right? So I spent the majority of my career taking that in from people, and so I was tuned into their frequency. But there does come a point where you have to realize that people are gonna start tuning into your frequency. And so therefore it becomes kind of a, that dual signal and it really starts to take root. And so I think it's really important as you grow in your career and you hit that leadership levels, you have to understand that culture is a reflection of the leader. So go back to that alignment. If I'm not modeling the behaviors of what I'm telling people, saying, Hey, look, it's really important for us to be ethical. Just take that as an example, if that's one of our core values. Everything I do needs to make sure that it's passing the test of if somebody's watching me, am I be, am I behaving in a way that's consistent with what we've got hanging on the wall, right? So I have to make sure that I'm doing those things. And so I think as leaders, it's really important for us to understand that people are watching us and people are looking for us to be their mentors. And when you see somebody leaning in, being present, being curious. Seek them out, right. And then pour into them and say, Hey, look, I noticed that you were asking some good questions following that meeting, what can I do to help you? Is there a way that I might be able to set aside some time to meet with you and dissect, you know, kind of what you're working on? and I can share what I'm working on too. And again, that's that dual frequency. I spent that first part of my career doing that to others. I need to return that favor. And that's that second curve that I'm in now, is I want to just share that with others. And so, you know, if somebody's listening to this or somebody reading my book reaches out, I'm engaging them. I wanna talk to them and I wanna see how can I help them because, it's my turn to kind of give back on that.

Mike: 23:31

Yeah. Digging into that a little bit more, you know, part of it is. You know, talking to folks in that second curve of your career. By the way, I think I'm on curve number three or four if that's possible, but,

Scott Millson: 23:44

Good. Keep

Mike: 23:44

that's just'cause I get bored quickly. but one of the things as we talked before this and preparing for this and you and I trading some information back and forth, one of the things you said to me that I think factors into, to one of the things you just said, so I wanna unpack it a little bit, is you said. Culture is the shadow of the leader, and leaders need to understand that they're a force multiplier for both good and bad. Talk a little bit more about that. I think that's such an important point.

Scott Millson: 24:13

Yeah, I mean, so I come from a military background. You've mentioned I served in the Navy and in that, you know, there's a term within the Navy that they use, which is a, it's a force multiplier, something small that has a kind of disproportionate impact. And as a leader, I believe that we are force multipliers, how we act, how we behave. Impacts others. And so I, I'll give you a great example. I had a consulting client one time that was, that was a restaurant they had, they were growing barbecue restaurant, which by the way, I love barbecue. So, but so, so it was easy for me to get this one as a client. But I remember riding around with the owner one time and he said, look, when I walk into a restaurant. And I start interacting with the team. I can tell the mood of the general manager based on the team and how they're interacting with customers or me or anybody else. And so I said, I unpacked that with him. And I said, what do you mean by that? And he said, because he said the general manager, they're in a good mood, right? And they're high energy and they're running around the restaurant and they're modeling the behaviors they want others to, to do. He said, I can guarantee that the team is gonna be in a good. Good place. He said, conversely, if the team is just kind of moping about and kind of interacting with the guest a little bit, but they're not high energy or anything, he goes, I can find the general manager and know that they're in that same place. He said, so it's a force multiplier that general manager is a force multiplier. How they act people are going to take from them, they're gonna take their cues from their leader. And so it was such a good reminder for me of the need to be as a leader, a strong force multiplier. But it also. Understand that it's a two-edged sword, right? Because you gotta use that power for good, knowing that you're a force multiplier. Be, you know, be positive, be optimistic. Those things are force multipliers for the good. Conversely, I've seen really bad leaders that when the wind shifts just a little bit, they're just in the dirt. You know, they just drive themselves into the dirt and they're just like, oh, woe is me and terrible situation going on in the climate, the economy, whatever it is. And people take their cues from that too. And so you gotta know that as a leader, you are a force multiplier and you gotta use that power for good.

Mike: 26:20

Yeah. You talk about, being a laughing leader, which I think relates to this. Talk a little bit more about that.

Scott Millson: 26:27

Yeah. You know, I was so fortunate. You know, I graduated college in 1989. I went to work for an organization called Hewitt Associates. I was there 17 years. The organization doesn't really exist anymore. It kind of got bought and sold multiple times, but it was. My foundation, anything I am today as a professional and maybe even as a person I got from that organization. And one of the things I loved is I was a 22-year-old, you know, bright eyed, bushy haired. I had hair back then, but you know, bright, bushy haired kid running in. Ready to kind of conquer the world. And what I loved is we worked hard. I mean, we worked 80, 90 hour weeks. I actually hit 100, you know, hours in a week one time. Just, we worked really hard, but we played hard too. Like we had no, you know, no problem poking fun at one another. And so it was just a great reminder for me that we gotta take our job seriously, but we don't have to take ourselves so seriously. And I think when we as leaders. Inject humor and look, it always needs to be good natured, right? don't be that person that puts, you know. Puts other people down or anything like that, like don't do that.'cause that force multiplier, again, people will pick up on that. But when you can laugh among your peers, when you can set an environment that says, you know what, y'all can poke fun at me. That's fine. Let's, that's okay. I think that humanizes us as leaders that says it's okay for us to have some fun. And so, I mean, I remember one time in particular we did, it was April Fools and we just, we stayed up late one night and we just put. Different pranks all around the office. And it was great and the leader was right there with us doing it. And it was just, you know, it was just a great environment in which to work and you know, for me to start my career. But, you know, laughter I think humanizes us. I think it gives us all shots of dopamine and it gives people a desire to want to come to work in an environment where like, we're gonna work hard. don't mistake that, but we're gonna have some fun as well. And so I always had this belief of we all need to be laughing leaders and to lead that by example.

Mike: 28:21

Yeah. what it reminds me of is something that I. Coach a lot of my CEOs on that I work with is very often A CEO thinks I'm gonna hire a head of HR or I'm gonna make my head of hr the owner of the culture within the organization. And I always say, well, you know, a head of HR can do a lot to help you promote the culture and further define the culture and all that stuff, but. As the CEO, you own the culture. Nobody else could own that. And I think that's to your point of people are gonna take their cue from the leader.

Scott Millson: 28:58

yeah. You can't, you know, as I said earlier, I think culture is a shadow of a leader. You notice I didn't say culture is the shadow of hr, right? I mean, HR can carry that forward and they might be the catalyst to help drive some of those things, but people are taking their cues from their leader, not from hr. HR is wonderful and they're, you know, really helpful within an organization, but they should not be asked to set the culture. You know, it should be the leader. The leader has to be the one that is gonna, that's gonna set the stage, and people are gonna follow what they do, not necessarily what HR does. You know, they're not gonna follow Toby Flenderson. They're gonna follow, you know, they're gonna follow the leader and the culture that they're setting for themselves, you know?

Mike: 29:35

The other thing that, that you talked about in the book that I wanted to dig into a little bit,'cause it's so relevant to some of the work that I do and helping my clients. Coach and develop, you know, talent within their organization is you talk about the idea of feed forward being way more important than, than feedback. What is the difference between feed forward and feedback and why is it so much more important?

Scott Millson: 30:01

Yeah. Well, I love that in your upcoming book, you know, the strength of talent is you have Marshall Goldsmith blurb at the top. So Feed Forward for me came from. Marshall Goldsmith. I was fortunate, that organization I was with, Hewlett Associates. They had a really strong belief that learning and development was one of the most important organizations within our company. and so they really pushed hard on learning and development, and I was fortunate enough to be in a leadership capacity and they would pull leaders together. you know, twice a year. And so we'd go up to Chicago and they'd bring in speakers. And I was fortunate at one time that Marshall Goldsmith was one of those. And so he sat before a hundred of the leaders of this organization and gave us this nugget of feed forward versus feedback. And so it's funny, we all know that we're, the term feedback is a gift, right? But if it's a gift, when I say the word feedback to most people. It like tightens the stomach, like, Hey, we're gonna sit down and do some feedback, and everybody's like, oh no. Like, oh, here it comes. Right? Because they, feedback is based on the past. you're giving somebody counsel on something that has happened immediately. When you hear that you're gonna get defensive, well, you don't quite understand the situation. I didn't, you don't understand the context in which that situation happened or whatever. You immediately get defensive, which all that means is you're not listening. You're not hearing what the person is trying to give you. So we say feedback as a gift, but we don't receive it very well. We don't receive it as a gift. And what Marshall Goldsmith gave us was work on doing feed forward. So instead of feedback, talking about something in the past, talk about something in the future and do it as coaching. And so instead of saying, Hey, look, in that last meeting, I think you need to have a better opening. You know, I think you need to, I think you need to be more concise with your words on that. So that's very well. Intended feedback that you're giving somebody. But imagine if I give the exact same coaching and I say, Hey, look in our upcoming meeting, you know, I think it'd be really focus on that intro today. Really focus in on kind of how you're opening that. Think about the objections that might be coming their way. Think about that in advance, and I, and let's role play that a little bit. That doesn't tighten the stomach. That loosens the stomach. And so feedback is tightening that stomach because you're talking about something in the past, and I have to defend myself, right? You're telling me I didn't do something right. Feed forward is just talking about something that hasn't happened yet. I can't be defensive. It hasn't happened. And so it was just, it was a gift that I got that, that coaching from Marshall Goldsmith that, it became a cornerstone of my career. I think that was probably 20, 24 years ago. I heard that. And, he shared that with us and it has stuck with me and it's as if it would happened yesterday. So it is definitely part of that reflection collection.

Mike: 32:38

And it's such a small. But important distinction, like it's so easy to turn feedback into feed forward in the way, hey, you know, next time in a meeting, let's focus on this. It's so easy. You could do that with anything you're thinking of, giving feedback on. you could flip that switch. So I love those things that are so powerful and yet so easy to do. the key, I guess the hardest part is not. Flipping the switch. The hardest part is remembering to flip the switch.

Scott Millson: 33:09

Yeah. And it becomes a, you know, leadership is a muscle, you know, it requires exercise. And so just like anything that is good in our lives, we have to keep doing it. We have to exercise it. And I think leadership is a muscle. And so when you work that muscle and you continually are giving feed forward, it just becomes natural. So instead of saying to somebody, Hey, let's sit down and we're gonna, we're gonna give you some feedback, and we go into that, just start coaching people and saying, Hey, you know what, I'd like to sit down and let's talk about the upcoming meeting that we've got coming. And it changes everything. And so if you do that over and over again, it becomes repetitive and it becomes that muscle and you get muscle memory.

Mike: 33:46

One more thing I want to ask before we start to wrap up and it actually kind of loops back to the mentoring conversation, but it just jumped in my head and I think it's important is, you know, when we are younger professionals, if we are looking for it, there are seemingly dozens of mentors out there. Folks that are more successful, more senior have something to teach us. But when we are. You know, 50 something, 60 something. And we are leaders within our organization. We are, vice presidents or C-level executives or CEOs within the organization. there's a whole lot more people down, lower than us on the org chart than above us on the org chart. So, as senior leaders, how should we go about. Finding mentors'cause easy to say, well now it's my time to mentor. I'm 60 years old, I don't need to be mentored anymore. You know, bullshit. I still need to look for mentors myself. so as senior leaders, how do we go about finding mentors when we're at that point in our career?

Scott Millson: 34:55

Yeah, so we talked earlier about how leaders need to make sure that they understand that they're modeling the behavior that they want people to do. So if you want people in your organization to find mentors, guess what? you gotta find mentors, you gotta talk openly.'cause like if you're in, if you're sitting with your leadership team, or maybe it's even the people that report to the leadership team, and you say the words, you know, I was talking with my mentor recently and this person reminded me of X, Y, or Z, whatever it is, guess what you has done? You've now injected into everybody that's sitting in that audience and go, oh, mentorship is important to that person. And if I aspire to be like them. Maybe I need to start thinking about mentorship. And so mentorship, I mean, in anything we do as a leader, we need to recognize that we are being watched, we are being seen, we're, people are modeling the behaviors after us. So we have to, in everything that we do, make sure that we are setting that course for people. And so, you know, I believe that as if I, you know, go back to what we started talking about initially, growth mindset is so important for me, it has been, if I had any superpower. It was my ability to observe, my ability to watch, listen, and learn, and then, you know, use those skills that I was able to develop from others. But as I grew in my career, I knew that I needed to set an organizational culture that rewarded that. So if I saw somebody in my organization that was seeking out learning, if they were seeking out ways that they could get better at something, if they were seeking out mentors. I rewarded that I was very vocal about, Hey, this is what this person recently did to improve themselves. Kudos to them, whatever that might be. Kudos might be dollars, it might be whatever, a pat on the back. It might be, you know, recognition within a team meeting. But when I do that as a leader and I start recognizing and setting a culture that's saying we want to be growth minded, we don't wanna be fixed minded, we wanna be growth minded. And when we do that. Guess what? Everybody's gonna begin to follow that now because again, that culture is the reflection of me if I'm the leader. And so, you know, you have to set an organizational culture that is focused on growth mindedness. and then mentorship is just a big part of that.

Mike: 37:07

Excellent. And I find sometimes for senior leaders, you know, as a junior leader you could typically find potential mentors right? Within your organization. They absolutely do not need to be, but you could find a good chunk there as a senior. Leader very often we've gotta, we've gotta be looking outside of our organization to the industry group we're part of, or, you know, somewhere outside.

Scott Millson: 37:30

yeah. And look, I mean, I have never stopped learning I today. I mean, Simon Sinek for me is, you know, if I want to inspire myself, I go find a video on something that Simon said. I learn from him every single time I watch what he says. I just lean in on that guy. I got a bit of a man crush on him. I just, he's just, he's brilliant guy. He is done really well. The way he thinks and the way he presents information, I just think is phenomenal and so. I've never stopped growing and learning, and I will use that with people. You know, if I'm before a team, I'll say, you know, I was watching a podcast, or I was listening to, maybe it was Mike Goldman's podcast, whatever it is, right? I wanna give the credit to whom, the person that shared that with me, but more than anything, but I'm really doing is I'm letting'em know I'm not a continuous journey of growth here. I'm not done. You know, there's an old CPA term that's called Sally, which means same as last year. What you wanna avoid is don't be, Sally. Don't ever get comfortable with saying, same as last year, that I'm gonna be where I am tomorrow of where I am today. Don't do that. Like continually be looking to try to better yourself and whatever it is that you're doing, and when you do that, it helps you. But when you model that behavior and you talk openly about it, and you talk openly about. The challenges why are you listening to that podcast? Well, I don't think I'm that good at X, Y, and Z. You humanize yourself and all of a sudden the team is leaning in and they're learning from you. So as a leader, just don't ever forget that you are being watched and you are being, you know, how you behave, and the model that you set will set the culture for the organization.

Mike: 39:01

For a leader listening right now that wants to embed excellence deeper into their organization, where should they start tomorrow morning? What's one thing they ought to do tomorrow morning to move forward on some of these ideas?

Scott Millson: 39:16

So I think it's, it's gonna sound self-serving as I say this, but follow the B five framework. You know, wake up in the morning and saying, how can I be intentional of people with whom I surround myself? How can I surround myself with excellence? Like, who in my community, who in my industry, who in my network is doing something that I think is excellent? Be closer to them. Lean in on them, like you spend more time with them. That's the intentionality. And then when you're there, be present and be curious with them. Really just don't be like, well, I'm gonna spend time with them. And it was nice. We had a nice barbecue lunch and that was great. No, like, be present. Listen, you know, talk 20%. Listen 80% do those things. Be curious when they say something and then be bold to lean into your failures and recognize that person that you think is outstanding at what they did, guess what? They had a ton of failures too. Ask them that, like, what was your biggest failure? And if they say they haven't had any. That's a fixed mindset like that, you're not gonna get much from them. But when they say, man, I've had a ton and here they are, and here's what I learned from each of those situations, you're good. And then just, you know, be reflective and take those opportunities to learn that. So I think if you wake up tomorrow morning and you can think of those five things, I think you can help, you know, dial into that frequency and find your Rock 104.

Mike: 40:27

Scott, in addition to people going out and buying the book, and in a minute I'll ask you, you know, where people can go to find out more about you. How do you work with companies, with clients? is it coaching? is it training? Is it about speaking? Maybe it's all those things, but how do you get this message out? How do you work with clients?

Scott Millson: 40:45

So probably I'll take those in reverse. So speaking is my number one thing. So that, that mostly retired thing that I'm doing today is I'm out speaking and so, you know, I'll be brought into a client conference to speak with clients, and do a keynote address of some sort, or if somebody's doing a sales kickoff or they're having a team meeting and they're saying, Hey, we want to kind of motivate everybody to kind. Be focused on our growth goals for the next year. I can come in and kind of help with that. So I do a lot of the speaking today. I definitely do some training as well. So kind of coming from the speaking, somebody will say, Hey, can you come in and dive deeper into that with our team? Absolutely, we can do that as well. I don't do as much one-on-one coaching. I'm always available to do that with somebody, you know, some of that I like to just do, you know, off, off to the side. So if I do a training event with somebody and they say, Hey, can I call you tomorrow and let's just talk through some stuff. Like, yeah, absolutely. that's me squeezing that sponge and I'm happy to do it and always willing to kinda share the wisdom that was so, you know, you know, gracefully sharing, graciously shared with me. I'm willing to share that back with others'cause it's meant to be shared.

Mike: 41:42

And if someone wants to find out more about you, your speaking, your book, where's the best place for them to go?

Scott Millson: 41:48

Yeah, so books available pretty much anywhere. You can buy books. I've got the audio version, I've got the, you know, Kindle version, got the written version. so, so any of those would work. That's on Amazon at Barnes and Noble, anywhere else. and then, you can find me on scottmillson.com, which is, Scott. And then Millson is MILL, two Ls, SON.com. You can find me there.

Mike: 42:08

Beautiful.

Scott Millson: 42:08

And hit me up on LinkedIn. I'm always happy to connect with people on LinkedIn, so I'm frequent poster on LinkedIn.

Mike: 42:13

Beautiful. just curious, did you read your own book for the audio?

Scott Millson: 42:18

I did. Yeah.

Mike: 42:19

That to me, I've done it for my last two books. That is probably the hardest thing, just sitting in one place and reading the book hour after hour. God, I hate that.

Scott Millson: 42:31

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, I didn't hate it as much. What I did though is, you know, I'm a bit of a perfectionist, right? And so I thought I had this book locked up and then you're reading it back and you're like, why did I say it that way? Like, there was a better way I could have said that. And I'm like, dang, stop it. This thing's in print, it's in the Library of Congress, like you're not changing it. So just, you know, move on from that. So that was the hardest thing for me is I would hear something I'm like. And you could've said that better, but I moved on from it and, it was, I enjoyed the process.

Mike: 42:59

Yeah, I wrote down when I did my book, I wrote down 18 things that, for the second printing of the book, hopefully I get there for the second printing of the book is gonna change, but I'm with you like finding those things called ah, but it's too late to change it. Well, Scott, this was great. You know, I always say if you want a great company. You need a great leadership team. thanks for helping us get there today.

Scott Millson: 43:23

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I really appreciate the opportunity and, thanks for having me on.