Building a Talent Development Function with Roni Jacknow

Roni Jacknow is the CEO of RJ Coaching & Consulting and recently retired after more than 17 years leading talent development at Kaiser Permanente. Her background spans leadership roles across multiple industries, including finance positions at Chevron and Charles Schwab, before transitioning fully into the talent development space. She is deeply passionate about employee and leadership development, wellbeing, and cultivating workplace cultures rooted in belonging, gratitude, and continuous learning.

Thanks for listening! Connect with us at mike-goldman.com/blog and on Instagram@mikegoldmancoach and on YouTube @Mikegoldmancoach

Transcript

Roni: 0:02

It's your job as the senior person in the room to create an environment where everyone feels comfortable creating that psychological safety where everyone feels comfortable putting their best ideas on the table, and then together you are going to architect the best decision. The best path forward. So It's about building that psychological safety such that everybody is, you know, welcome to put forth their ideas.

Mike Goldman: 0:37

You made it to the better leadership team show, the place where you learn how to surround yourself with the right people, doing the right things. So you can grow your business without losing your mind. I'm your host and leadership team coach, Mike Goldman. I'm going to show you how to improve top and bottom line growth, fulfillment, and the value your company adds to the world by building a better leadership team. All right, let's go.

Roni: 1:09

Sure.

Mike: 1:11

Roni Jacknow is the CEO of RJ Coaching and Consulting. She recently retired from a successful corporate career that spanned various industries and included being the senior director of the Office of Talent Development for Kaiser Permanente, where she was in leadership for over 17 years. She is passionate about employee and leadership development and is a transformative leader. Committed to fostering cultures rich in learning, gratitude and belonging. Roni also a dedicated advocate for employee wellbeing. She enjoys practicing yoga, reading, and spending time with her grandson and her dog. Zola. What kind of dog, by the way, I love dogs.

Roni: 1:55

She is a mutt, she's a rescue mutt, but she definitely has a fair amount of black lab in her because she looks like a black lab.

Mike: 2:02

I love that. I had a yellow lab for about 14 years and just unbelievable. But anyway, Roni, welcome to the show.

Roni: 2:09

Thank you, Mike, and thank you so much for inviting me to join you today to talk about a topic that I am very passionate about, so I'm happy to be here

Mike: 2:18

Yeah, both of us. I'm looking forward to it. So Roni, from all of your experience in leadership, what do you believe is the one most important characteristic of a great leadership team?

Roni: 2:31

The first thing that comes to mind is trust. you know, as a leadership team, there are going to be highs and lows as you journey together and having that foundational element of trust. Really invites everyone to sort of bring their whole self and all their ideas to the table every day. So, the best leadership teams I have, been a part of, we're really grounded on deep trust for one another

Mike: 2:59

Yeah. and Roni, when you say trust, and that's such an important concept and topic for me that I want to, I wanna drill into it for a bit. I typically break down trust. And maybe I'm oversimplifying into two different types of trust. There's kind of task-based trust, which is, Hey, I trust if I give Roni something to do, she's gonna do it. And then there's more of that vulnerability based trust where I could be open and honest. I can give feedback without fear of retribution, I can tell her I screwed up, or I'm sorry. Or, it sounds to me like you're talking more about that vulnerability based trust. Am I

Roni: 3:35

A hundred percent. It's that, you know, psychological safety. That I can disagree with you, and together we'll come up with the best answer. I remember, I think it was a headline, and I don't even know if I actually read the article, but years ago there was a headline for, I don't know, a Forbes article, HBR article or something, and it said something along the lines of, Chief Decider versus Decision Architect. And I think that's a key concept. And so what I have often shared with leaders is it's not your job to show up in the meeting. As the know-it-all, the person that has all the answers. It's your job as the senior person in the room to create an environment where everyone feels comfortable creating that psychological safety where everyone feels comfortable putting their best ideas on the table, and then together you are going to architect the best decision. The best path forward. So it's really about what you said, Mike. It's about building that psychological safety such that everybody is, you know, welcome to put forth their ideas.

Mike: 4:49

Yeah. Which is very different than a leader trying to win the argument. There's a great book I read called Conversational Capacity, and it talks about like, we actually think as leaders, like what's wrong with trying to win the argument? Get into a debate, and it's like Darwin's law, right? Two great ideas, just battle and the better idea's gonna win. But the problem is, I think to your point, is when you are a leader of a team. And you try to win the argument, you shut everybody down as opposed to you are allowed to have an opinion, but your job is to gather all the information to make the right decision, not to try to win the argument. So I love that.

Roni: 5:28

Yeah, exactly. I think that, and oftentimes, when we were having. you know, robust discussions, with the teams that I was leading. Oftentimes I would, say at the outset of the discussion, I will share last, to your point, you know, I didn't want to bias anyone or sway their opinion one way or the other. So again, depending on the conversation and the environment, oftentimes it is best for the. Senior leader in the room to share their thoughts last, and oftentimes what will happen is someone else will share the idea you had and then you just have an opportunity to shine a spotlight on what they said. And certainly you can be additive to it, but that's the best environment. You know, where the best ideas are created and cultivated. Together as a team. And again, that also continues to cultivate trust with a leadership team with some of the best leadership teams that I've been on, is continuing to pour into each other and, be open and curious as to, you know, other people's opinions and ideas and input.

Mike: 6:36

Yeah. beautiful. So I wanna talk a little bit about your journey because when we were introduced to each other and we talked, you know, I thought your journey was fascinating and important. you know, you ended up in talent development, but you didn't start there, right? You started in more on the finance side, right?

Roni: 6:53

yes. You know, I, I've, I thought about this often, how did I end up in this, you know, leadership development and talent development space? And I'd have to go back to, I think my last executive role that I had, while I was at Chevron. And again, I was a finance leader and executive, at the company, but the last, probably the last few years I was there. Maybe the last year or two, the company was kicking off. A, or piloting, I should say, a leadership development program. and they asked me to serve as the executive sponsor, really, and all my role was, is to show up the first day with some opening remarks and, you know, allow the consultants that were hired to facilitate the program to do their job and the participants. And I can't recall sort of the cadence of the program. I wanna say that it lasted over a few weeks. They, you know, everything was in person back in the day. And, I tried after, I think I sat in on the first day, so I showed up and I shared my opening remarks and I ended up staying in the room anyway, I ended up really sort of being a fly on the wall. I'm sitting in the back of the room for the whole program and it was. Really, you know, in hindsight now, I think that was the turning point. I mean, up to that point I was. And most often the only female in the room, you know, was the oil industry. It was the, you know, eighties and nineties. and or the most senior female in the organization or in the room. And so I found myself doing a lot of, I don't even know if we called it, you know, mentoring back then, but a lot of mentoring and coaching, which I thoroughly enjoyed. I really had a passion for, I guess what I would call now growing the next generation of leaders. And, having an experience sitting through that leadership program just was a spark, somehow. So I coincidentally, I left Chevron shortly after that and took a brief. Stint of, being a full-time mommy. And then I landed at Charles Schwab, and I still don't know how this happened. I was of course, yet again in another finance role, and yet, someone on the, from the HR organization invited me to be a facilitator. In a brand new leadership development program they were launching. And so I went through some very robust, DDI training, facilitator training to prepare for that. And I taught an entire module on, building relationships and stakeholder engagement and, you know, but continued on in my day job while I was at Charles Schwab. And then. Again, was there for a few years, took a brief, stint of, not working for a while and landed at Kaiser Permanente. And the beautiful thing about being at Kaiser is that from the minute I hired on, I was in, a consultant role. I felt as though I was fully retired. I didn't wanna work as an employee any longer, and I was working for. A senior executive that I had worked with at, Charles Schwab, we were on the same executive team together, and she gave me, in hindsight, she gave me the freedom. To really tap into my brilliance, I can look back on this now, and allowed me to just delve into things that I was passionate about, which was really employee development, leadership development, organizational development. And that's where it really flourished. during my tenure at Kaiser Permanente, that, and I mean initially. It was all under the umbrella in the finance organization. I was on the business side. I've never worked in hr, but certainly, valued all the relationships I had with the folks that were in the official talent space. but yeah, it really flourished at Kaiser Permanente. And, my last 10 years there, I was solely focused on employee development and learning and talent development.

Mike: 11:17

I think most, most larger companies, you know, multi-billion dollar plus companies understand. The difference between talent development and hr and I have always hated that term. Human resources, like the, it just sounds like we're all part of this machine, you know? and not, but anyway, but the larger companies that have. The team, you know, the number of resources to do it for many years have thought about HR and talent development as different things. Maybe they're part of the same umbrella organization, maybe not, but a lot of my clients, a lot of the folks that listen to this, that are in more, more kind of mid-sized organizations, don't take the difference between those two. For granted. Very often I work with a leadership team and they have a head of HR who is, you know, very kind of administrative, tactical, head of HR employee handbooks and benefits and payroll. And you don't really think, you know, town development is maybe something they do part-time or maybe not. So talk a little bit about the difference between, you know, what HR is and what talent development is.

Roni: 13:53

You know, I have to say that, I, think most HR professionals. Actually want to spend more time focused on talent development. I don't think it's, the absence of interest. I think it's just that their day job is so consuming that they often don't have the ability to spend as much time doing what I would consider the fun stuff, which is really focusing on, employee development, succession planning. all of those attributes that really are important for us to continue to retain the talent we have in our organization. So I often, you know, the majority of HR professionals that I've worked with over the years, they enjoy focusing on this stuff. That's, it is an important aspect of their job. I think for me, I was really lucky. What happened, for me is that I think I started working at Kaiser in 2006, and then in 2015. I, had an opportunity to really sit back and reflect on the fact that I probably only had, you know, who knows, eight to 10 years left in my corporate career. You know, what do I wanna do when I grow up, so to speak. And, when I sort of paused and reflected on. What I was really passionate about, what did I want my legacy to be at Kaiser Permanente if this was gonna be my last corporate gig? And what I really realized is, although yes, I'm a finance professional, my passion was around people and development. And yes, I could certainly be successful in, any number of line finance, leadership, or executive roles. But I thought my legacy could be growing the next generation leaders. So in February of 2015, I called a meeting with our head of HR and the senior executive I was working, for at the time, and a VP colleague and I basically pitched the idea. For this role that didn't exist, that would be focused on talent development, specifically, or at least initially in the finance organization. And, 60 days later, they called me into a meeting and offered me the job that I had pitched to them. And that's where it really began, in earnest where I the last 10 years or. I guess nine years that I was with the company. Before I retired, I spent a hundred percent of my time helping to grow the next generation of leaders in the organization. And over time I subtly infused, elements of mindfulness and employee wellbeing and inclusion and belonging, into all the programs and offerings, that we had at the company.

Mike: 17:02

So let's dig into that a little bit, because again, there are. So many folks, whether they're in HR or maybe they're budding finance, soon to be talent development professionals that, you know, in these mid-size companies that want to create this talent development role. But there's some confusion. It's like, where does HR stop and talent development begin? and maybe even a bigger one is, well wait a minute. Isn't that the job of the line leaders and line managers? Like, what is talent? It's not, is it my job to go and coach everybody in the organization? And certainly if that's what you were doing at Kaiser, you'd never go to sleep. So that's certainly not what you were doing. But how did you craft, how did you define that talent development role? Kind of what was part of that role and what wasn't part of that role?

Roni: 17:55

Yeah. You know, I have a philosophy, Mike, that, career development is employee owned, manager supported and guided, and company enabled. And we did many things. You know, when you were talking about coaching everyone, although I would've loved to have done that, I didn't have time for, but I remember early on, we launched several different programs, initiatives and training sessions for managers to develop managers as coach because, you know, they are the boots on the ground folks, and we needed to support them. And that was also. Also one of the sort of foundational elements for my team, again, we were not sitting, in hr, but boy did we partner together. I viewed our role as ensuring that we did everything in our power to fortify. The manager and employee relationship, and we work closely with our HR partners, to do that. So we really focus a lot of attention on those frontline managers because they. are the ones that are in the roles having, that they're doing the hiring, they're doing the coaching, they're supporting their employees along their career development journey. And, so that's how we viewed it. So we had a lot of offerings to really support employees to own their development. One of the things that I really enjoyed launching at the company is something we called a quarterly day of learning. So a lot of the programs that we, pretty much all the, you know, sort of official programs that we hosted were nomination only, right? Obviously, you know, there we have a number of slots for the, you know, 10 or 12 different programs that we ran each year. And so, you know, you had to be nominated for one of those opportunities. So we launched what we call the quarterly day of learning, and we chose one Friday every quarter. And the beautiful thing about that is we would announce those dates in like December of the prior year. So everyone in the company knew what the dates were. we didn't, you know, share the specifics around what sessions we were going to offer, but we announced the dates. We really encouraged and ask all of the managers and leaders and executives in the company to. Hold the, hold those spaces, you know, don't try not to schedule an all hands meeting on one of those days so that your, employees can participate. And what we ended up doing is hosting three to four different learning workshops. During the course of that day, usually between 10:00 AM and 2:00 PM because we have employees on in different time zones. And it was a way to democratize, you know, learning opportunities. I mean, we had an LLM system, we had lots of different opportunities for employees, but we would bring, you know, executives to kick off sessions. We would have, you know, we, my team read, we read Atomic Habits, and we love that book. And we created a session around atomic habits. We created one around multipliers, another one of my favorite books. So, and we were just, and we had, we, we brought, you know, wellness folks in to talk about, you know, wellness offerings and, financial wellness and self-care practices and just about everything. So I loved that. You know, I loved having an opportunity to really. Encourage and support employees for owning their own development journey. At the same time, for managers, we did everything in our power to support managers in, coaching their employees and really helping them. And oftentimes what we found, Mike, is that it wasn't that managers didn't wanna support the career aspirations of their employees. They felt like they had to have all the answers. We found out that they weren't having those conversations with their employees because A, I don't have a promotion to offer them, or I don't want them to view this as me telling them that they should leave my team and go find another job somewhere else. So we really helped managers in having those conversations, with their employees. And the other thing that I tried to foster in, in the finance organization, at least, if not. The entire company is, I try to really encourage leaders to show up as internal talent. Exporters versus talent hoarders. So we really wanted managers to be recognized for being. Exporters of good talent to other parts of the company. And again, that meant that they had to have a keen sense of what their employees were interested in terms of their career aspirations, and therefore coach them and support them as, and hopefully enable them to, have a bit more of internal mobility throughout the company. And everybody wins. the manager that is exporting that good talent, has a reputation of supporting the talent in their organization. Folks wanna work for leaders that, certainly support their aspirations. Obviously, it's a benefit to the employee and it's certainly a benefit to the company if we can re retain, maintain, and share talent across the organization.

Mike: 23:26

How do you, when you are working with managers on all of these. and techniques and mindsets around growing the next generational leaders and becoming exporters of talent, and I love that concept. often it's, you know, the leaders above them, the senior leaders of the organization, you know, that's all great, but if the senior leaders aren't modeling that and supporting that, then it's very nice, but then it all goes to hell because they can't make it happen. and I see that so often. how did you make sure that the senior leaders not only supported what you were doing, but modeled that as well?

Roni: 24:12

You know, I, one of the programs that I launched, probably actually my, the very first program I launched when I landed in the new role that I pitched to them, was something that we named ALDP. It was an accelerated leadership development program, and it was specifically designed. To support directors getting ready for their first executive role because that was the next step and they didn't need another training program. What they needed, and I never referred to that as a training program. They needed support in getting ready for that first executive role. So I called it a readiness program, and I relied on the senior leaders and executives to support that program from day one. A in nominating directors, that were certainly seen as high potential and high performing. But where I really needed them to support, the program was, to your point, and role modeling what we wanted to see. We really wanted to enable these leaders to be ready for an executive role somewhere in the company, not necessarily in their organization. And so that role, that program relied heavily on those senior leaders in coaching. In mentoring, in serving as guest speakers, in offering job shadowing opportunities and really supporting these directors in an action learning project that we created for them, in inviting them to spend time in, in different lines of business, different geographical locations. And it was fantastic because one of the things that we did, Mike, is ensured that the folks in the program had exposure to the senior leaders that they didn't work for, that were not in the line of business. And I think that made such. an enormous change in their mindset, Mike, because I think oftentimes as leaders we're so focused on the talent in or our organizations and we just don't know about the other talent that exists out there. So that's really, there was some hidden agenda around that, and it was really getting them comfortable seeing all the talent that was in the organization and then being less fearful or hesitant. To, you know, do what I was saying, which is be become good exporters of talent within the organization because they knew that there was talent out there that would also be interested in learning about their line of business or working in their geographical location, et cetera.

Mike: 27:05

One of the things that's so powerful about what you're saying that I really just wanna drive home so everybody hears this again, if they didn't hear it the first time, is. Most of what you're talking about, maybe all of what you're talking about, you know, has been focused on working with high performing team members. So often when, and I look back at my own career, way back when I worked for, you know, Accenture before they were called Accenture and Deloitte Consulting and I had kind of real jobs as opposed to what I do now. and add teams working for me, I. I spent a whole lot of my time focused on my lowest performing team members because they needed the most help and the highest performing team members got a lot of keep up the good work. And you know, one of the things I've seen over the years, and when I look back at my own career, I saw this as well as others, is that for your best people, if they don't grow with you. They're gonna grow with someone else. So I love that so much of what we're not talking about talent development, you know, you haven't, one, once mentioned the power of a performance improvement plan. You know, we're talking about, you know, nominating the, these high potential folks to, you know, and building that next generation of leaders and just. You know, for anyone listening to this, you know, just knowing how important it is to focus, you know, I think most leaders overinvest in their underperformers and they underinvest in their high performers, and we really need to switch that.

Roni: 28:46

Yeah, I think, you know, I would often say if you are not having conversations with your high performance, somebody else is having conversations with. so it's important. And, you know, the other thing, another one of my favorite books, which I think I'm hiding, is the Five Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace.

Mike: 29:03

don't know that

Roni: 29:03

You know, it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, it, it's so sim I shouldn't say it's simple. It's important, to really foster. What I call an attitude of gratitude. And you know, one of the things that is, was, so one of the facts based on the research, that they, that White and Chapman did for that particular book, is the fact that, 90, I think it was 94% of employees. do not want to receive some sort, do not wanna be recognized with some sort of tangible gift. You know, that's what we often think of, right? What they want. 94% of employees wanna be recognized. by way of words of affirmation or quality time. So it's important to, you know, it's great if you can nominate your high performers for this elite, you know, leadership development program. But, you know, a that doesn't happen every year. but what you can do is certainly. Take time to pause. I suggest every week pausing, pausing on a Thursday or a Friday afternoon. If it's Thursday afternoon, put it on your calendar as, thank you Thursday, 15 minute recurring meeting. If it's Friday, call it Gratitude Fridays and really just. Spend a few minutes, Mike, looking back over your week and you'll find at least one person that deserves just a few words of appreciation and gratitude. And that can go a long way because if you share that on a Friday and that high potential employee gets a recruiter, calling them on Monday could make all the difference in the world if they really feel valued and feel seen.

Mike: 30:53

When it comes to spotting and growing that next generation of leaders, what in addition to maybe spending too much time with lower performing team members, what did you see as some of the common mistakes? That leaders made where you had to make sure you really focused the training there or, or the day-to-day work with folks. What are some of the mistakes you saw leaders make again, in, in spotting and growing that next generation of leaders?

Roni: 31:24

It probably gets back to what I just touched on, and that is simply pausing and spending time with them. You know, I most one-on-ones. You know, are just focused on the tactical things, you know, what's happening. And I really encourage managers to, you know, at least once a quarter, have a one-on-one solely focused on having a conversation with your folks about their career aspirations. And also it takes, you know, it's, it's not. It's not difficult, but it takes time. There's no short cutting at Mike. It really comes down to getting to know them, finding out what their strengths are, what are their superpowers. You know, oftentimes, especially in a large company, you never saw their resume. you don't. Probably know what all their experiences were prior to them showing up at the company you work for. You might not know what their superpowers are. You might not know what their interests are. you may not know where they want to take their career, where their aspirations are, or where they want to grow and develop. I will share with you that one of the things that I did as a leader. And I encourage all leaders to do is have skip level meetings, you know, with the employees in their organization. And I would host quarterly skip levels and I had someone in my organization. I did a lot of speaking. I built a lot of decks, I did a lot of speaking gigs, in my role anyway, it was in one of these skip levels that I found out that this particular employee in my organization was really passionate and very skilled at creating these amazing PowerPoint presentations. And boy was I able to leverage that strength from that moment on, right? So I think it's important, you know, what it comes down to is you have to spend time getting to know your employees one-on-one, understanding what their passions are, understanding what their strengths are so that you can help them leverage more, and you can personally leverage their strengths and at the same time having a sense of where they want to grow or develop new skills or competencies or behaviors. And again. You don't own the development, but it's your role to sort of help guide and support them. I, we did a career, what did we call it? A career experience survey, so a year into my new gig in the learning and development space, I just wanted more data. I wanted information and so we launched what we ended up calling a career experience survey. And you know, I think, you know, we tried to limit it to 10 questions but probably ended up being more like 15, whatever it was. I remember that my, almost my only contribution to that survey'cause my team did all the magic was the last question. And the last question was something along the lines of, is there someone at Kaiser Permanente that has served as a career champion to you? And if so, will you name that person? So the first time we did the survey, I was shocked. I mean, nine, I think 99 people were named in the survey. It was just amazing. And so then I thought, wow, what are they doing? Like, what are, you know, why are people calling them out as being career champions? And what was really fascinating, Mike, is this survey went only to, you know. 2,500 finance employees, but some of the folks that were named were physicians, our CIO, I mean people outside of the finance function. So I invited them to a focus group session like, what are y'all doing? And one of the leaders, share, or I said, I think my question was, why do you think you were named as a career champion to one or more folks?'cause some people were called out by numerous employees and, one of the leaders that spoke up shared something that has stuck with me forevermore. She said that she viewed her role similar to that of a Sherpa helping someone, you know, climb Mount Everest. She said my role is to, help guide and support them. So I am scanning the landscape for the weather, for hurdles that might get in their way. Sometimes I'm behind them, sort of motivating them. Sometimes I'm beside them, helping maybe carry some of that weight and sometimes I'm in front of them, inspiring them along their path. And so I think that is the key. The key is, you know, getting to know your employees and then helping serve as a Sherpa, along their career, development journey.

Mike: 36:27

So Roni, I think that's the book you've gotta write. I've got it. It's Sherpa leadership. That's it.

Roni: 36:34

Mike.

Mike: 36:34

want 10%, 10% of the revenue. That's all I want. But it's your

Roni: 36:38

you're the book. you're the author, Mike, not me. Maybe that'll be your next book.

Mike: 36:43

maybe I'll give you credit. I'll thank you. Somewhere in there. I also know Roni, you are a certified mindfulness facilitator, so talk a little bit about that and how that fits into the whole leadership development world.

Roni: 36:58

Oh, wow. that's a journey, you know, how did this type A. Finance executive find her way to mindfulness. that's a, that's an interesting story. So, part of, actually, it is an, a funny story as well. When I, when those, senior leaders at Kaiser came back to me 60 days later to offer me the job I pitched to them, one of the things I said to them was, I think I, you know, in taking on this role. I think I'd like to, go through some formalized, you know, coaching, certification training. And it was so funny because, you know, I said that out loud and it was very quiet in the room. It, my inner critic was kicking in. I didn't know. I didn't know, understand my inner critic at the time, but now I know that was my inner critic. And my inner critic was saying to me, wow, you're asking for something for yourself that's so selfish of you. it was quiet in the room and one of them spoke up finally and said, you know. Absolutely, we absolutely we'll support you, but you've been coaching leaders and executives ever since you walked in the door. And I said I, I'm sure, but I am sure there are methodologies and tools and resources that I could really utilize to, help me serve as an even more impactful coach. So, I launched on a search for a coaching program and, kicked the tires on a few. Applied to one and started my journey and I launched that ALDP program, first of its kind in the company for those high potential directors in May of 2016. And I embarked on my coach, formal coach coaching certification training in June of 2016. And you know as much coach, most coaching programs, year long program, we would gather in person once a quarter for four or five days. there were 13 of us in my program from all over the world. you know, CHROs, CEO of a hospital from Miami, tech entrepreneurs that were semi-retired from their IPOs. And, so we got together for the first session. over the course of four or five days, and of course in between you're mentoring people, you have a mentor, you're being coached, you're coaching folks. And throughout those first four days, starting on day one, I think, they invited us, to practice mindfulness, practices. And none of us had any experience with mindfulness practices. And so on Sunday night at seven o'clock, when that first session ended, they said, okay, you know, we're coming back together in 90 days and by then you need to have a 30 minute, 30 minute mindfulness practice. Wow. So I came home and being the type A personality that I was, you know. Set my timer and you know, three minutes and five minutes. I think I got up to about seven minutes and this may have been like three or four weeks later and I realized that I had been sleeping through the night, something I hadn't done in probably five years. I had been suffering from insomnia and what was so interesting, it took me a while to connect the dots because I wasn't. practicing. I wasn't meditating right before I would go to sleep. it was maybe after dinner at some point. That changed my life in such profound ways that, you know, a year later when, we were graduating from our program and they asked us to share how we were going, we had to, in addition to our 60 page. Case write-ups of our clients as part of our graduation requirement. They also wanted us to share a five year development plan. How are you going to continue to develop as a coach? And the mindfulness practices changed my life in so many ways that I decided to, I really wanted to go deep in that particular area. In addition to that, Mike, so I started the program in June. I launched this 18 month. Leadership program in May, so it's towards, it's in December, and I started subtly infusing mindfulness practices into this program. We spent a lot of time together.

Mike: 41:29

Sneak it in there so nobody

Roni: 41:31

snuck it in there so subtly, and I felt a little bit guilty because this was a brand new program that I was launching. The first program I was launching in this new role that was developed, I had to not only, obtain, senior executive buy-in for the program, but funding as well. And mindfulness was not in the curriculum that I shared. it wasn't spoke of. Anyway, it's a year later and we are graduating this amazing group of leaders from our program and in front of. All of our senior executives, and of course I had primed them and asked them to say a few words and share some, you know, key takeaways from the program. And the very first person that stepped up. The first thing she shared was the mindfulness practices, which was maybe 2% of the curriculum. And so I said, oh, we have something here. We have something here. So from that point on, it gave me permission to just be loud about it. And so we, integrated mindfulness practices into every employee and leadership development program We had standalone workshops. I, it probably became the number one topic that, leaders and executives asked me to come speak about because it was really all about, supporting employee wellbeing and that was before the pandemic. And then the pandemic happened and prior to the pandemic, you know, I was probably asked once a quarter, Roni, can, I'm having this leadership offside or this all hands, can you come and talk about. You know, talent development mindfulness or what have you, and then the pandemic happened and I could barely keep up with the demand. I think I was asked to come and talk about or do a workshop, a mindfulness workshop over two dozen times in the nine months of 2020 when the pandemic kicked off. calm is a leadership superpower. Calm was a leadership superpower before the pandemic and before this VUCA world that we find ourselves living in and having the power to pause it. It changed my life, Mike. I mean, I, prior to incorporating mindfulness practices into my life, I can honestly say I was racing through life, as a type A. Executive wearing my busyness as a badge of honor and to let go of some of my perfectionist tendencies to give myself the, just some of the grace and compassion that I so freely gave others, changed my life as a. as a mother, as a wife, as a leader, as a colleague, you know, enabled me to really show up with a lot less judgment and a lot more openness. It allowed me to respond to what was showing up in my life, my personal life, and at work, and not react to everything. it's been life changing for me. Absolutely.

Mike: 44:49

And now from all of that experience. Now you are partially retired, but you've got your own coaching and consulting, business going Tell me a little bit more about who you work with today and the type of work you're doing with your clients today.

Roni: 45:06

Yes. You know it, interestingly enough, and this probably will not come as a surprise in the last, since I've retired, or at least in the last year and a half. people, in career transition, you know, there's a lot going on in the world. some by their own choice. Some are nearing retirement, and I've been very vocal about sort of the glide path I created for myself for retirement because I just felt as though. I couldn't just retire and stop, everything that I was, interested in. So I kind of created this glide path for myself to sort of hang my own shingle and continue to do the things that I'm passionate about, one of which certainly is coaching. So I think, a lot of my coaching in the last year and a half has been through transitions, whether it's. Getting ready for retirement, deciding what's next. You know, a lot of leaders and executives are trying to decide what's next. Who do I stay at the company I'm in? Do I pursue another more senior executive role here? Do I pursue something at a different company? Do I start my own company? so it's been a lot of, I'd say more, sometimes I would signal it as a career pivot and oftentimes when we get into the coaching discussions, it's more of a life transition is what it ends up being. So, and I'm also, I do a fair amount of coaching. women leaders. I have a keen interest certainly in advancing women in the workplace. So a large number of my clients happen to be female leaders and executives, and I'm certainly, helping to support them. But really career transitions, has been kind of the hot topic in the last year and a half. And I will say that regardless of what they're seeking coaching for. I have integrated mindfulness into every coaching session, and no one has turned it down. So, and I often start every coaching conversation with what I call just a minute to arrive. Oftentimes, you know, the coaching conversations are at the, end of the day, and it just gives us an opportunity to let go of that last conversation or whatever happened during that day. And be really fully present, for our conversation. And by the way, that was a hidden agenda, I think for the coaching program that I participated in, is, you know, it didn't take us long to figure out that the most important skill for a coach is to be present. And that's certainly why they, really encouraged us to cultivate mindfulness practices so that we could be fully present for our coaching clients.

Mike: 47:52

And Roni, if someone is interested in what you do, they wanna find out more or contact you, what? What's the best way for them to do that?

Roni: 48:01

I am the only Roni Jacknow in LinkedIn. So, please reach out to me and, my email is RJcoachingconsulting@gmail.com.

Mike: 48:10

Excellent. We'll, and Roni is RONI, right? Case. Anybody wants to spell it some other crazy way? and that'll all be in the show notes, but, Roni this was great. I so love talking to you. I always say if you want a great company, you need a great leadership team. Roni, thanks for helping us get there today.

Roni: 48:30

Thank you, Mike. It was a pleasure to be in conversation with you today.