Ohio Counseling Conversations
Ohio Counseling Conversations
Let's Unpack That #3: Self-Care or Self-Sabotage?
"Is it self-care, self-sabotage, or something else entirely?" In this thought-provoking episode, counselors Marisa and Victoria tackle the complex reality behind our wellness practices. They unravel how the genuine professional concept of self-care has been transformed by pop culture into something often unrecognizable – and sometimes counterproductive.
When bubble baths and retail therapy dominate our understanding of self-care, we risk missing the true intention behind this essential practice. The American Counseling Association defines self-care as activities that sustain our emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual well-being – not just indulgent behaviors that can be easily marketed to us through social media. As our hosts reveal through personal anecdotes (including Victoria's confession about her weighted stuffed animals collection and Marissa's attachment to her high-tech alarm clock), we all fall prey to marketed "wellness solutions" from time to time.
Through insightful discussion, they distinguish between basic self-maintenance and genuine self-care, exploring how different domains – physical, emotional, social, practical, and spiritual – can feature both restorative practices and potential sabotage. When does a Netflix marathon cross from needed rest into avoidance? How can we tell if our emotional venting is processing or just dwelling? The answers lie in intentionality and understanding our true motivations.
The episode culminates in a playful "Unpack or Put It Back" game evaluating trending self-care products and practices, from crystal-infused water bottles to solo dinner dates. Their verdicts might surprise you, revealing that effective self-care isn't universal but deeply personal – what works wonderfully for one person might be completely ineffective for another.
What do you think? Send us your questions or topics you'd like us to unpack!
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Created by the OCA's Media, Public Relations, and Membership (MPRM) Committee & its Podcast Subcommittee
·Hosted by Marisa Cargill & Victoria Frazier
·Pre-Production & Coordination by Marisa Cargill and Victoria Frazier
·Editing by Leah Wood & Marisa Cargill
·Original music selections by Elijah Satoru Wood
Welcome to let's Unpack that, a short form segment from Ohio Counseling Conversations, where we dig into the topics, tools and truths that shape our work as counselors. Whether it's a trending issue, a clinical insight or something we've all been thinking about, we're here to process it together. Welcome back to let's unpack that. This is your august edition. I am marissa cargill and I'm victoria frasier, and today we're unpacking a common debate around self-care. Is it self-care, self-sabotage or something else entirely? Victoria Tori, this is something that I feel like, as counselors, we're supposed to be modeling and setting examples for, but sometimes we struggle too, because we're human, and so I feel like I see a lot of memes teasing about this, one of the ones sort of like if I buy something else, my bank account's going to need therapy. If I buy another, this, if I buy another, that. Is this something that you feel like is relatable for you as a human and counselor?
Speaker 2:I think it is especially when I think about my clients and when we talk about self-care, I always hear them talking about like acquiring something to help them with the self-care, which is something I'm sure we'll talk about later, but probably not the most all-encompassing approach or the most effective one for like what we're meant to be getting out of self-care.
Speaker 1:Right, right, I find myself, if I like something, it's one one of those. Maybe this is not necessarily a self-care meme, but it's like if I like it, I get it in every color if I so it's like something that's comfortable. My, probably in the last year, most relatable purchases that kind of align with this are the weighted stuffed animals. The weighted stuffies she one or maybe a few, because I have one on my sofa and one on my left seat and one in my two in my bedroom, like it's. It's the weighted stuffy, but it's like what point? You know there's a line, right, and so today's episode might go into some of that.
Speaker 1:Really exciting because we are getting into using social media more to support the podcast and we asked on our Insta hey, what's your go to self care move and is it actually working for you? And some of our listeners and members said hey, yeah, exercise is something mindful walking, breath, work, meditation. Someone said spending time with their, their nieces and nephews and how easy it is to be present, that these were some ideas. Now, more than we got answers on like what is your go to move, we got some answers about is it working for you and, interestingly, with that one, 50% were kind of in the middle, saying like sometimes, but there's room for improvement or I could work on this. One person said no, because two isn't necessarily working. And then we had some other folks who said yeah, there's yes, what I do works. So about 12% with the no and then 38% with the yes.
Speaker 2:It's such a mixed bag. I'm not surprised about like sometimes yes, sometimes no, and I think that's something I fall into and something I see my clients fall into a lot, where, like, I have my go-to strategies and I feel like they should work all the time and then when they don't, I like either forget that I can pick something else or like forget that there's other options. They're just kind of like, well, I guess I'm going to be miserable and that's not helpful either. And so I think I mean I know we're going to talk about a lot of different options today and so hopefully I mean I think that'll be helpful for me and hopefully that'll be helpful for my clients and, like anyone who's listening, because I think I'm in like a self care, like rut.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I totally get that, and I think there's always like a lot of variables and I try to ensure, obviously, if there's something dangerous, we we address that as like okay, that might not be healthy self care. We want you to be doing things that are oriented towards wellness and not getting you in trouble with the law or something. Right, yeah, no crimes, yeah. So I certainly like do have to, you know, draw a line when we're talking about self care. However, I try not to poo-poo I know that's real clinical language Any self-care that is working for someone, but try to say it's probably helpful to sort of diversify our portfolio in this kind of space, because just that go-to might not be useful in certain situations, might not be accessible in certain situations, and so I'm trying to make sure that we have multiple go-tos that we can try on for size, depending on what's going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. The other thing, I think, that clients run into and maybe even sometimes we forget as counselors is like what counts as self-care, like what is self-care, what is the purpose? And so, in preparation for today, we looked up some official definitions just to kind of bring us back to our roots. And so self-care is officially defined by the ACA as activities that we engage in to sustain well-being, encompassing emotional, physical, mental and spiritual aspects. This proactive approach ensures that we can effectively carry out our responsibilities and serve as positive role models for each other.
Speaker 2:And then the other thing that I thought was really important is that the ACA emphasizes that self-care is not a suggestion but is actually a professional responsibility for counselors. And we really want to make sure that our self-care is proactive to prevent burnout, compassion, fatigue if we're getting really in the weeds, any professional impairment that we're experiencing, which obviously is not only negatively impacting us but it's going to impact our clients as well, and obviously that's the last thing we want. And I think that having the ACA definition provides a different kind of insight, because self-care is a very like pop culture, like it's really infiltrated like the zeitgeist, and so that's like our professional definition like the zeitgeist, and so that's like our professional definition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think even when we think about that, it extends to sort of how we model for clients. But that pop culture has turned self-care into something a little different. It's more like bubble baths, candles, indulgent behavior. Activities like you know, oh, shop, enjoy your treats, go to the spa. Your activities like you know, oh, shop, enjoy your treats, go to the spa.
Speaker 1:And so this misconception is like that. This is just such a reductive definition. It's simplifying self-care to just activities that can be easily marketed and consumed, when that might, for some people, be part of the equation. But it also gives this misconception that self-care is inherently selfish or frivolous and maybe doesn't kind of address like some of the more authentic forms of self-care. And I know we're going to kind of keep digging into it. But I think it's important for us to consider like that we see this we see that marketing it's really unavoidable because it might be a commercial although most of us might pay for no commercials, depending you know where we are but in advertisements on social media, on television, movies, billboards, etc. That we see some of this pop culture definition more frequently and it and the marketing for them works.
Speaker 2:So you see people doing stuff on social media and talking about how great it is, but it's also a marketed, crafted, curated image of self-care which maybe isn't fair yeah, and I think the other thing that we forget a lot of times is just because someone hasn't like it's not shown to us as an ad doesn't mean that it isn't marketing. And so, like I'm usually, I try to be like very like locked in when I'm on social media, like mindful of that. But like the hatch alarm clock this like fancy, stupid alarm clock I have one, it's beautiful and it like has me. It has me whipped into shape, like I go to bed so much earlier than I ever did and I'm such a night owl. But like I also have the like understanding of like okay, these are things I could have implemented for myself. And like this, like I also have the like understanding of like okay, these are things I could have implemented for myself. And like this clock is not necessary, but I do kind of love it and it is kind of my best friend yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's interesting that we I appreciate you sharing that example because, like, we fall victim to the same marketing, even as counselors, where where we try to set a model, but we do still think sometimes I need help with this and maybe this, this item, this product, will help fix it for me, and in some cases it can, and in some ways it may be like well, that was another, maybe I fell prey to that really good marketing scheme.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the other thing that can be a little dangerous about it not to get too in the weeds about mental like marketing for mental health and self-care is that, yes, the clock is very helpful and it gives you a signal that it's time to go to bed, but also, like you have to be the person to listen to it. Right, like it is still going to take some adjustment to your routine or how you're thinking about things.
Speaker 1:Yes, One of the things that and we'll probably get into it a little bit later in the episode, maybe in greater depth but I think when we're talking about like trends on social media, that we must be careful about and important.
Speaker 1:I, in terms of just like social media literacy, which you know is a big thing for me, in terms of like trying to educate and advocate for people to better understand is that there's a lot of lived experiences, which is a version of expertise sharing, and sometimes it's not always backed by like the evidence-based stuff that we also appreciate in our profession and I think they're both very important.
Speaker 1:But sometimes we're getting marketed a product by someone who maybe doesn't have a background in understanding like why it's working or how it works, or who may not even care that it works to be transparent with you, because they're also earning income from that, and so it is something that I I guess it gets layered, but I think, with the trends on social media that like oh and I'm not minimizing the importance of this, so I want to be very clear and intentional when I say this is like fix your gut health and you're not going to be depressed, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Like it's reductive in some other ways where, yeah, your gut health matters and addressing some of those things could be really helpful in terms of mental health symptoms as well, and addressing some of those things could be really helpful in terms of mental health symptoms as well. I'm not here to say that that can't be the case, but I think sometimes it's being sold as like definitive solutions where that may not always be accurate either. So it's like these self care things of like take this supplement and your life will be better, kind of thing may not always be just a fair portrayal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think one of the things that makes it tough and like I don't know that the onus of responsibility is on, like the marketing people or the influencers who are promoting it, but like they don't have the expertise to influence how they're approaching the topics, like you've already said, intentionality a couple of times, which I talk about a lot when we're talking about self-care, like there's a difference between like taking a bubble bath and taking a bubble bath in the interest of wellness. But also I think about I try to I talk a lot with my clients, even like the five-year-olds, about considering your whole person and thinking more holistically and so if you're really sleepy but your main self-care is more physical, like going for a run, that might not be the most appropriate intervention for that second. And so the intentionality and also like considering lots of different factors is so important yeah, yeah, and I think it's a it's where is that line like?
Speaker 1:the intentionality sometimes helps us determine where the line between self-care and self-sabotage, where we're kind of like entering into dangerous territory, where that line gets drawn. There are different types of self-care. And I think where we're kind of like entering into dangerous territory, where that line gets drawn, there are different types of self-care. I think it's important for us to run through some of like the main types this may not be an exhaustive list, but just trying to kind of put them into categories and umbrellas is there's like the physical, the emotional, social, practical which we'll define a little bit more here in a minute and spiritual. But we're kind of looking at those to say, okay, here's where it might be self care. And as we kind of go through that spectrum on that type of self care where it might get a little bit more to like the self sabotage. And so with physical, it's like getting sleep, getting like adequate nutrition and movement, netflix marathons, like disguised as recovery and rest, like yeah, we need rest. But if we're saying that that's what it is and we're binging and we're kind of avoiding the other things that might help us maintain and care for ourselves. Is that becoming self-sabotage? Maintain and care for ourselves? Is that becoming self-sabotage With emotional stuff? Journaling, going to therapy can really be useful in self-care if we are venting endlessly in our group chats, is that effective?
Speaker 1:Not saying it can't be, but it's like gauging the intentionality behind it and when it's maybe becoming sometimes less helpful or more harmful, even social, making healthy connections versus maybe like trauma dumping or trauma bonding and I don't love those terms because I think they're misconceived. We might have a different episode about unpacking misconceptions from social media, pop psychology but practical stuff, budgeting, decluttering versus retail therapy that, like meditation and nature walks, might be part of like a spiritual self-care. But spiritual bypassing, toxic positivity, good vibes only might be a little bit more of the self-sabotage when it comes to some of those things too. So I can kind of look back in my life and reflect and say, yep, I've done the self-sabotage version of some of these pretty, pretty easily, and so it's. It's not that we don't know, it's about getting behind the intentionality behind it, as you were bringing up before, and thinking about hey, is this helpful, is this harmful? Where's the line? Because it could be both, but maybe it just depends on the duration or frequency.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one of the things that can be kind of hard about it is that when we are getting into, maybe, an overindulgence area where, like, we have watched 10 hours of Netflix or we've sent 30 group chat messages in a row, that stuff still feels nice, it still feels productive, or it's like yes, obviously I ate the whole chocolate cake. It tasted amazing. Like. So we like, when we're thinking about intentionality, I think that's a little easier to like think through in the moment, because intentional, while important, is a little vague and so, like, some of the questions we can ask ourselves or clients is like, am I using this as avoidance?
Speaker 2:Because, even if you are getting a lot out of your meditation, if you're meditating instead of like washing your hair or doing your progress notes or other things that are going to kind of like further your being, that can be hard and I know that, like my house is never cleaner than when I'm behind on notes, or like when I was in school, exam week, finals week, I would have the cleanest, most sparkling architectural digest. There's a new photo gallery on the wall. Like situation in my house, because I was like I don't want to read that stuff that I wrote a month ago.
Speaker 1:I'm laughing because I relate. But it would be on the side of the counselor, educator, that if I had a lot of grading to do, you would never see like my house cleaner, more organized, like to the point where I had to figure out ways to like combat that right. Like what can I do to sort of help me be motivated? Because, well, it's great to have a clean home and feel organized there. It was avoidant of the other things that were necessary for me to be able to function.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean yeah it's tough because like that does feel good or it helps us in other areas of our life, but like it's unbalancing our little pie chart, right Cause. Then it's like your house being clean is taking up too much and not I don't know students waiting for their grades back not speaking from experience, not that that was ever a problem. I'm not dragging you.
Speaker 1:And I think, hey, no, avoidant like tendencies with like some of this stuff as well as like sometimes I'll like label it as like a distraction coping mechanism, aren't inherently bad. It's like, to the degree that we do it and that we want to, like I was saying earlier, diversify the portfolio, Like we can't, you know, wanting to distract or disconnect from something or avoid it, like, in essence, can be useful. It's helpful for us to sometimes set things down, and yet the word avoidance, I think, shows a different intentionality than like disconnecting or distracting. It's like a conscious choice of, and so I don't know, I mean, I would still probably lump them together in a lot of ways, but there's some research to support. We'll link it like a research study showing that, like avoidance, coping specifically does increase anxiety over time, and so at the end of the day, there's, you know, the return on that investment. Not great. We don't want that to become, like then, an additional problem. So we understand how confronting it can be useful, even if maybe we need to disconnect temporarily.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one of the other things like just if we're talking about balance, right Is like sometimes the answer is to go get yourself a nice little treat or like. Like, if I have like a day where I know I have a bunch of emails I'm bad at emails, I'll own up to it, I am not I'm getting better at them, but like I know that a way bunch of emails I'm bad at emails, I'll own up to it, I am not I'm getting better at them, but like I know that a way that will get me to sit down and do my emails is to go get like a nice little drink from like a coffee shop nearby, or like. Sometimes my brain is like I can't do that. And then I'm like, what if we ate Nerds Gummy Clusters while we did it? My brain's like, oh yeah, that's fine then. Actually I love nerds, gummy clusters Not sponsored.
Speaker 1:I tricked my brain to do laundry last night. I said once you do your laundry and fold it, put it away. Sorry, my cat's making noises here. Once you do that, you can go get a popsicle.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I love that. The other side of that, though, is like how often are we getting little treats? Because that can be a strain not only on, like I don't know if I eat too much sugar my body doesn't love that but also like I think you made a joke about it earlier like our wallets probably don't like that as well. Yeah, and we don't want to create, like you said, like more anxiety by trying to make ourselves feel better.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm, create like you said, like more anxiety by trying to make ourselves feel better. Yeah, I think there's a lot that goes into it. I also think, like, sometimes, like if we feel like we're setting boundaries around certain things to help care for ourselves, they can cause strain in our relationships. And I'm not saying ignore, forget all boundaries and sometimes we have rigid boundaries for very specific and intentional reasons. But sometimes it's like we miss out on things that could be positive self-care, a great example. I'm very, I would say, rigid.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that's how other people would characterize it or not, but I'm weird about my Sundays.
Speaker 1:Right, I like to be home by a certain time on a Sunday so that, even if I'm all caught up on laundry and all everything is like in its place, I still feel like I have time to like rest, relax mentally, feel more prepared for like the week beginning again on Monday. Last Sunday I went to a cookout at my friend's house. Like it was pleasant. I was out much later on a Sunday than I normally would be and if you, if I had known I was going to be out that late, honestly I probably would have been like oh, maybe I should just not go, right, yeah, but then you miss out on, like maybe some of the social interactions, like the kind of temporary vacation of having just social engagement and connection that isn't related to the to-do list or the work week or what have you, and so it's like that can cause issues, too right, where we're like self-sabotaging in a way, that like we're denying ourselves things that bring us joy too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think not to like broken record balance, but also if we know that we have a habit.
Speaker 2:I have a problem of saying yes to too many things just because I like to be around my friends or I like to do things for work, and so I try to sit down over the weekend, usually on Sunday, and look at my schedule and make sure that I can actually do everything I need to do and, if not, like where that needs to change.
Speaker 2:And I think even that like kind of organizational time is very self-care focused for me, because I don't know what day it is today, and so when it's like Thursday and I said I would go to this lunch and I would have this thing done for a friend, and you know I, I can get a little like swept up in it, and so I try to build in that time.
Speaker 2:And I have have this thing done for a friend, and you know I, I can get a little like swept up in it, and so I try to build in that time and I have to put it on a calendar or it doesn't happen. Like my color coded beautiful calendar is that I changed for the seasons, so like right now it's like pinks and blues, and then in a couple of weeks I'm trying to hold off. I'm an early fall apologist, but in a couple of weeks I'll change it to like oranges and browns and like apple red anyways. But I think like calendar time is very self-care for me and I do some of the pop culture self-care stuff too, like I do light a candle and I do like put on mood lighting or like sit in like my fluffy pajamas to do it.
Speaker 1:But also there's like a much more practical version of that too yeah and yeah, and I think that's like grounding right, like some of the sensory stuff can be really grounding, so it's not all inherently bad. It's about like, okay, are we using that to also maybe avoid other work, or or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then I think the other thing that is a little hard for me because I'm someone who kind of goes all in a little too quickly on things and changes. I have to try to scale it back is like how sustainable is this thing? I'm trying to do Like? I don't know?
Speaker 2:If you saw it, there was this like person's morning routine going around. It kind of became an internet joke where he got up three in the morning and dunked his face in spring mountain water out of a beautiful glass bottle and was doing pushups on his balcony. Great, I don't know him. I'm not trying to slander him and his morning routine, but I can't imagine that he does that every single day or that he can continue to do that every single day. And how sustainable that or how sustainable is that for someone watching that? And they're like, oh, I wish I could do that. Maybe not the mountain water bottle, unless they're into that but like getting up so early and doing all these things before work, like we don't know what his job is like, that might not be sustainable for someone who has like a nine to five or who works nights or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's about finding what works for you, which sometimes does have that like individual, you know component of like what, what's going on in my world, like that context is important, certainly, like there's a lot. I think that we can flex in some ways when we're thinking about things that aren't costing a lot of money. But then it's some of those restraints and, you know, I think to that point we get a lot of marketing that's like watered down versions of stuff that, like people who maybe have a ton of money can do and is sustainable, but like maybe not. So for just like someone like us, like I don't want to say someone more human we're all human but like I, you know, just someone who's not in the 1%, I guess, like where it's, it's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is probably not something that's realistic yeah in the long term I think the other thing we can get into is like seeing examples in like media, like fictional examples, and that being not achievable just because it's not based in reality.
Speaker 1:You know I'm a Bravo-holic proudly, I love Bravo TV and the Real Housewives Certainly, like probably are marketed as like aspirational things and they're carrying Birkin bags and they're going to get all these spa treatments and things like that. It's like oh yeah, like love, that like good for you, but also that might not be how you know, I can't go drop a bunch of money, you know, at the Louis Vuitton store today. Like that's not realistic and probably, you know, in a temporary moment I might feel good about but like might have regret and and discomfort with after and so you know, great if you can treat yourself, but if you can't like, then where does it become? Like problematic, and sometimes the pop culture and social media really love to promote these other things. Right, there's memes you know about, like how people engage in self care, one of my favorites and I I don't like I probably wasn't a religious watcher of Parks and Rec, but I feel like the treat yourself bit with Tom and Donna, right, yes, yeah, I was a religious parks and rec watcher.
Speaker 1:But that is like very common. We'll probably put it in our social media posts related to this episode so you can check it out on Ohio Counseling on Instagram, Check us out at the Ohio Counseling Association on Facebook. But it's about like hey, one day a year we kind of like say there are no rules, it's you want that, Treat yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you want fine leather goods? Treat yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but that's fun and we laugh and we chuckle. But risky, right. If you had a day where you just were like hey, like yeah, it can be really fun, but even with that being intentional and setting boundaries around it, because that could become like very dangerous very quickly for for anyone in the real world, right.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I think the thing I love the most about that episode is like Tom and Donna are like getting ready to leave and they see there, for those who haven't partaken in Parks and Rec, they see like he's I want to say he's like newer to the office at that point. But they see Ben the character's name is Ben sitting on a bench eating soup alone and they're like no, he needs to treat himself. And they take him to the mall and he's like no, I treated myself, I got socks. And like Tom at one point calls himself a cashmere velvet candy cane. Because like he's kind of going a little too far. That's great, it's incredible, it's so powerful. The whole episode I really highly recommend.
Speaker 2:But it's like they're kind of overindulging, right, and Ben is very much underindulging and like Donna asked him, she's like like if you could blow big money on one thing not stock money, what would it be? And he is like a kind of a more emotionally stunted character, I would say. And he buys himself a batman costume, like not a party city, like a high-end batman costume, and it's like kind of an emotional catharsis for him to like care about his needs and he starts crying and like they play it for a joke, like Tom's, like uh-oh, batman's. Crying like this isn't safe. But it is like a really sweet moment if you look at it in abstract or with, like your counselor hat on, like he's honoring what makes him happy in that moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know we touched on like the social media elements of like self-care being disguised as marketing. But I think it is important to kind of just reiterate that that like, even if it's hashtag, not an ad, it probably is a curated message, and like I feel like it's just so much more common now we have to maybe really reflect on some questions to say like, how do I check myself, to sort of check in that this is intentional check in, that this isn't doing something that's going to harm me. And I think that this also comes back to sometimes like the definitions. I know we touched on those earlier and one part of self-care is also like just the basics, which I think sometimes get defined more as like a self-maintenance.
Speaker 1:Self-maintenance is generally not enough to kind of give us the joy that we need to refuel the way self-care activities might so like yeah, getting sleep is great, getting proper nutrition, getting outdoors, getting, you know, engaged socially.
Speaker 1:Sometimes those are just about maintaining the self-care sometimes takes it into a way that we also get joy that feels restorative, not just like keeping us maintained, so to speak. And I think it's important when we think about some of the literature behind this is that there are studies that show self care, like legitimate self care, can boost your focus. It reduces burnout. It's also something where we can look at like some of these other things to contribute, and we know, like staying socially connected, it's a number one predictor from an 80 year longitudinal study from Harvard, number one predictor of happiness. And so we have to think about some of these things and say, okay, what am I doing to maintain myself, what am I doing to create joy? And then also like, how do I reflect on things to make sure that these are kind of falling into those maintenance or joy categories and not the sabotage avoidant space? So I think you have some ideas about some good questions, maybe to go with that, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think I do this a lot with my I don't know what it. I work a lot with kids and teens, but I have a group of adult clients as well, and a lot of my adult clients. It's like a big theme that they are not super great at self-care or they just feel like it's a waste of time or they don't know how to do it. So they're kind of like self-care babies and we're learning together, and so one of the questions I always ask them is like, how is this going to make you feel in five minutes? What about five days in five weeks?
Speaker 2:And sometimes we even talk about like in five years, like if they're doing something bigger, like they're going on a vacation, like their first vacation in 20 years or something, and we talk about like the lasting impact and how future you is going to feel about it, and maybe future you is going to be really proud that you bought a beautiful Batman costume, but maybe future you is also going to regret your velvet cashmere candy cane and then some of the other things we talked about it, which I think we've touched on a lot of these throughout the episode. But like are we avoiding something that we need to do instead? Like should we be doing a face mask if our house doesn't have any windows? Or like should we, you know, like we have to. Like I pull out the pyramid of needs like Maslow's hierarchy of needs all the time for clients.
Speaker 2:And I'm like have you eaten today? Let's start there. Do you have a place to exist and then we can talk about? I haven't seen the housewives lately and that's really doing a number on me.
Speaker 1:And I think that that's like you know you're going to like I get excited about housewives. But that's such a good point with the Maslow's hierarchy, because when we're talking about maintenance versus like the care and joy, restorative things, if the maintenance stuff isn't being done, it is hard to access the other stuff yeah, and in like, mental, emotional, sometimes physical ways. So it is important that we're talking about all of it. And I will say often when I have clients who are really struggling, I don't know that we get to the self care things. Yeah, I might use the word self care, but it probably is more of that maintenance of like let's go back to the basics how are you sleeping? Are you hydrated? Have you had meals? Like, are you? You know, like what are we doing here? Because it's kind of more challenging to experience the other things like or we might not get to experience the full range of that if we're lacking in some of these basic maintenance skills too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's hard for clients, but also counselors, to understand. Sometimes, just because you're at the most beautiful spa in the world does not mean you're going to be relaxed at the end. If you're there and they only offer you a cucumber sandwich but you're starving, like that's not going to be relaxing, right, yeah, and so we have to also like think about okay, I'm going to do this thing, excellent, that's like hurdle one, but then can you jump that hurdle Right? Do we have the preparation where doing the self-care activity, whatever it may be, is going to actually like do something for you?
Speaker 1:I also, especially in terms of maintenance, but I think it extends to self-care. I think about and I encourage clients to consider and I try to, you know, reflect on this as a an individual too, too is, do I feel like I have to earn it, like I wouldn't tell you know I I don't have children, but I wouldn't tell a child that they had to earn their nap yeah, right that those are things that, like we, inherently need to function oh, that's such a good point and and so especially with the maintenance.
Speaker 1:But I think it probably extends to some of this self care. Like we, you, you want kids to be able to play, they learn through play. Like you, you wouldn't say like, you have to earn the opportunity to play like and I know we do do that. So that could go into a whole different kind of dissertation here about, like you know, earning recess or things like that. But I think some of that has shifted and evolved with time and as it should. But yeah, I think that these are things that are really helpful to think about. I appreciate you bringing up the hierarchy of needs, because I think that applies here in this context for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it applies in most contexts.
Speaker 1:Well, right, that's. I think it applies in most contexts. Well, right, that's the point of it, right. But I think in just evaluating, hey, you do need those things, these are important things when it becomes sabotage is maybe when we're also like not meeting the other needs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the balance is off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay. Are there other reflective questions you have that you feel like we should be asking ourselves so that we know when we're blurring the line?
Speaker 2:We've talked about determining if it's a distraction or restorative. I do think one of the things I do with clients, and there's lots of different versions of this, so I'd encourage you to poke around and find questions that you think are impactful or important. But sometimes buying something is self-care or it is going to better our lives in some way, and so I'll do kind of like an impulse spending checklist, especially if it is a bigger purchase with a client and being like could I borrow this? Do I have a space in my house for this? Am I going to imagine myself using this in three years? When will this thing need to be replaced? Is it sustainable?
Speaker 2:Past that, like, I had a client who we were talking about. They wanted to make a change from buying coffee out and they wanted to have coffee at home and they wanted to get like an espresso machine, which I have an espresso machine. But then we were kind of talking about like, besides the initial investment, you have to keep buying the pots, and so eventually she kind of decided to do like a normal espresso machine that you can grind the beans for yourself or just buy pre-ground and so that, and we actually just talked about that somewhat recently. But she was like that was like it was a little more effort at first to figure out how it worked, but it's so much better now and she doesn't have to like fuss with the little pods and everything too. So, like talk, like doing some of those questions about like how would this thing fit in my life?
Speaker 2:And I think those things can work for non-purchases as well. Like okay, you want to start doing yoga at home, right? Like do we have all the equipment for that? Do we have the resources gathered? Like what can we do to prepare? So I think even not to add more steps to engaging in self-care which can be challenging anyways, but doing a little bit of prep work to make sure, like if cooking is self care, for you chop all your vegetables first, right, and that can apply in lots of different contexts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think one that just speaks to the, the statements we've already been making is just what's my intention behind this action, like, and sort of then maybe reflecting with some of those other questions is it avoidant? Is it restorative, like, but what is my intention in choosing this, whether it's purchasing an item or engaging in an activity, and sort of sitting with that for a minute before we make the decision of, okay, like, and can I make the case for like, this then being a choice that that aligns with my goals and my wellness?
Speaker 1:yeah, and even that causes self-care yeah, right, right, very good, appreciate that observation. So gonna switch gears and kind of wrap up with a game that we may play on some of these future episodes of let's unpack that. But unpack or put it back. A really rapid fire question where we decide if we would unpack this, meaning we keep it, we like it, or we put it back to say no, that can go, we can leave that one behind. So today we're going to go through some self-care trends and go through if we would unpack or put it back. So, tori, first on the list, crystal-infused water bottles Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2:Okay, I think normal water bottle unpack Crystal-infused. I'm kind of like what's that crystal's deal? So I think I would put a crystal water bottle back. But that might be my like anxiety happening about what the crystals up to.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I can appreciate that. I I feel like I'm such a diplomat about things I'm like, well, I don't know, is there a middle ground somewhere here? Because I say unpack for those who want it, right. Yeah, I'm not mad at it, right, but I may be a less enthusiastic. A less enthusiastic. Unpack. I like a crystal, don't get me wrong. I just maybe, maybe I'm not as well versed in the water bottle, so yeah, I just I can't imagine how they work.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's a me like how are the crystals getting in there? Are they just floating around Like what's up?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean we could Google image search and show you some are, I think, like more like secure implanted, from what I understand you know, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Anyways, that's a me problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, anyways, that's a new problem. No, no, I yeah, I'm very in the middle on that. So I'm, yeah moderate when it comes to crystal infused water bottles. But how about hot girl walks? Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2:I vote unpack. I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it. I have a hot girl walk playlist on my phone I also. There are many that exist out there in the ether on like Apple Music and Spotify and I'm sure many other places, and if you're not familiar with what this means, it's basically just like an empowered hey, go for a walk and like listen to the music. That kind of pumps you up, and that's my interpretation of it. But yes, I love a hot girl walk.
Speaker 2:This might be like a slight aside, and not in the name of rapid things, but what is on your playlist, like who is on there?
Speaker 1:Okay, let me get my phone Okay.
Speaker 2:I'll talk while you get your thing. My playlist has a lot of dochi. I'm very into a dochi moment right now. My playlist does not have a consistent vibe. There's a lot of Taylor.
Speaker 2:Swift there has a lot of Dochi. I'm very into a Dochi moment right now. My playlist does not have a consistent vibe. There's a lot of Taylor Swift. There's a lot of Mariah Carey. I think there's some One Direction hits. I think there's like the soundtrack from the Broadway musical version of Anastasia. Like what isn't on the Hot Girl Walk playlist. Hot girls are about eclecticism.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm just going to do some rapid fire artists from the playlist, because there are some that are on there more than once. The greatest showman soundtrack beyonce lizzo, belbiv, devoe um mia zed, marin morris, great megan, the stallion, lipa, doja Cat and Tyga. New Kids on the Block Drake, the Supremes, iconic Taylor Swift, mariah Carey, lado Lizzo, again Jess Glynn and more Beyonce.
Speaker 1:So just a quick rapid fire of that playlist, but that's not the only one. There's some other ones that give similar vibes that don't have the same title in terms of hot girl walk, but that is my, that is straight from my hot girl walk playlist I love so, yes, and as you can tell, I hope, by the sound of my voice, that it does bring me great joy and a little bit eclectic, but with a theme. I think with the theme it's all high vibe music yes, yes, yeah, we're not listening to.
Speaker 2:I love her but, like Phoebe Bridgers is not coming on, the hot girl walk Unless that's your definition of hot girl. Maybe you're having a sad girl walk and that's powerful too.
Speaker 1:Can be, yes, yes, but unpack for a hot girl walk. What about digital detox weekends? Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2:I think unpack in theory. I'm bad at it, but I'm getting better at like putting my phone on a do not disturb for a little bit of time. I think unpack now and unpack more in the future.
Speaker 1:I'm like is it okay if I say put it back? I with intention, I feel like I've gotten better over the years and I certainly will say there's always room for improvement. But I actually feel like I am digitally detoxed so much during the week that it is self care for me to be a little bit more indulgent with some of the things that I feel like maybe I miss out on during the busy work days and such because I am on do not disturb, you know significantly when I'm working. And so I will say maybe controversial, especially given like that I studied digital addictions Put it back. I love that. Stand in your truth. For me, for you, for other people, I think it is an unpack for sure. What about retail therapy splurges? Unpack, put it back.
Speaker 2:I am a put it back and not just in a teacher's pet way. I think my version of that is like I love looking at ridiculous things like right now my obsession is a traveler's notebook which is like a leather notebook that you can change out the inserts in, and my version. I don't actually buy it, but I love going on and designing it with all the little charms that you can add to it and things. So but I, I, I'm very like I have to think about things for a really long time before I buy them and so for that reason I'm a put it back before I buy them.
Speaker 1:And so for that reason I'm a put it back. I will say put it back. Yes. While I like some retail therapy, I think the splurge part of it is what makes me say put it back, because that's at least the way it is. Simply put, I feel like splurge makes it unhealthy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no I agree.
Speaker 1:How about no bad vibes wall art? Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2:Probably put it back. I think that gets into a little bit of toxic positivity, not honoring how we're feeling. Like I said, sometimes you have to go on a sad girl walk, so I think I'd put back the no bad vibes part of the wall art.
Speaker 1:Wholeheartedly agree. Too much toxic positivity there. Love some wall art, just maybe a different choice. Yeah, put it back. How about adult coloring books? Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2:Unpack over and over again.
Speaker 1:Any coloring book. It can be a child's coloring book. Yeah, I love yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, it can be a digital one. I love it.
Speaker 2:Love it.
Speaker 1:How about essential oil diffusers? Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2:Unpack in spaces without pets, because sometimes essential oil is bad for pets.
Speaker 1:And so that's yeah, that was going gonna say put it back for the very same reason, also because sometimes I think that that's maybe to the points we were making earlier they're not obviously inherently bad but like the social media marketing spaces can be kind of icky with with promoting some of that stuff too, as like the solution to your problem, which I don't, you know, I concur, I I don't disagree that we can't have like these types of solutions, but just like it's not a maybe pixel, agree wholeheartedly midday bubble baths, unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2:Unpack if you have the time to spare and you're into that. If you have the time to spare and you're into that, which I sometimes do, yeah, love, I feel it feels a little indulgent, yeah, but I am kind of into that.
Speaker 1:I say unpack, unpack, unpack, unpack, unpack. I love a bubble bath. My mother will tell this story and I might be oversharing here, but I think it will be at least anecdotally fun, maybe for you I hope for you as a listener at home. But when I was a kid, whenever I was like having a tough time, she was like throw the kid in a bubble bath, like she will get better. It was just she knew this is grounding for my child and I don't know why. And she made up this song which I am about to sing. It is like the simplest thing but it brings me joy even to this day, and so I also just associate bubble baths with like helping me feel better. And they still do work. But she would say bubbles, bubbles, take away my troubles. Bubbles, bubbles, they make me smile again.
Speaker 1:I am obsessed with that and I just have to tell you that that's the home I grew up in. We made up a lot of songs and I still make up a lot of songs and I sing them to my cats now. So just so you all know, that is me unpack bubble bath midday, evening, morning, whenever you can get it in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's about my spotify wrapped this year the bubble song. It's shooting straight to the top.
Speaker 1:It's gonna. Yeah, that's gonna be a hit. I think just wait till all ohio, because I might sing some songs during our presentation too. So we have to sing soft. Plug weighted blankets, unpack or put it back, okay.
Speaker 2:Before I had one I was kind of like a very light put it back. But then I got one unpack all day long Love.
Speaker 1:So my answer is probably going to shock you because I'm going to say put it back. As I just earlier talked about my weighted stuffies, I feel like those are a little bit more accessible for me. I've had some chronic pain issues and I think the weighted blanket I had maybe it was just too heavy or yeah, like prevented my my mobility in ways that was not great, so good for people. I like the sensory idea of it for me personally.
Speaker 2:Put it back and, you know, substitute with a stuffy yeah, I can't use mine when it's hot like it has. It's like a winter fall kind of unpack for me. I do put it back spring and summer. It goes in a little tote away, yeah.
Speaker 1:I like the sensory parts of it. I for me personally, it was. It was causing issues with some of my pain, and so I just self-accommodated with other tools. Yes, with the stuffies instead, solo dinner dates. Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2:Okay, similar to the last one, I would put it back before I did it. But now unpack all day long, anytime I'm going alone, I don't have to talk to anyone. I'm taking my Kindle, I'm taking time to look at the beautiful restaurant, even if it is an Olive Garden. They have a charm about them. Unpack, it's so nice.
Speaker 1:I agree wholeheartedly Unpack, and for me and for others on this one because it is something where we have an opportunity to like lean into discomfort especially if it's not something that you've done and really engage in like sensory ways and experience, like the environment in in ways that are different sometimes than when it we may miss something. If we're socially going somewhere where we don't get to like take it in as much, I think it gives us opportunities to sort of be more present. Even if it's a little uncomfortable, I think it can be beneficial.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm so glad you said that because I think one of the things that is hard for my clients to get sometimes and not to get too into it, but, like, sometimes self-care doesn't feel nice Sometimes it's important to do something that's uncomfortable, that's going to further us in the future.
Speaker 1:Well, right, and trying something new that's not like something that you've usually gone to and used as a coping mechanism is going to be uncomfortable at first. Right, it's going to maybe not feel like self-care in the immediate moment, but we can see how did we feel after that. Right, how did I feel after trying this new thing? Maybe I was, maybe I met someone, or maybe it was just nice to be in this experience where I was able to, like, engage in the sensory parts of the experience that I am sometimes a little bit more unaware or passive with because I was doing it solo. Yeah, and prove to yourself like that you can do things independently, which I think is is helpful for a lot of folks. I'm sure that there's some people who may say, nope, put it back, I'm not interested, and that's okay. Okay too, but I say, unpack for certain anything that you put back that we feel like we could reimagine to where it would then become something we could unpack, I think I'm thinking first of the oil diffuser.
Speaker 2:I think if, like, sensory grounding by way of scent is something that's powerful for you, I think that's super valid and I even I do that a lot with clients. When we're getting a little dysregulated and I did that a lot with myself If I'm getting in like a bit of a panicky mood I think scents are very grounding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I will obvious. I think I already said this sort of during, but like the digital detox weekend, even for me, I will say I think I already said this sort of during, but like the digital detox weekend, even for me, I will say there are certain times when I feel like I am able to detox. I try when I go on trips and travel, like I might use the camera, but I really do try to vacate the rest and I communicate less with, like, people who are not with me so that I can stay present, and so I think it being intentional with it, then is is really really meaningful to me. Oh yeah, so I'll say that's healthy self care, even though on a typical weekend I probably don't want to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's about a balance, as always.
Speaker 1:Well, this kind of wraps up this edition of let's Unpack that. A little bit longer, but really fun to sort of unpack this and I hope that this helps you reflect as a listener of hey, where am I maybe operating in a way that could be too close to that boundary, or are there other ways that I need to engage in, maybe different types of restorative activities? We know like self-care is just a tool that we have in our toolbox and we just want to be a little bit more intentional about it. So thank you for joining us for this edition. Thank you, tori Victoria. I'm glad you're here to help me unpack this. My gosh, I loved it Time of my life.
Speaker 1:And if you haven't gone along and followed us, remember it's Ohio Counting on Instagram. Ohio Counting Association on Facebook and LinkedIn. Make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so you never miss an update. If you have any questions, feedback or a topic that you'd like us to unpack, be sure to drop us a line. You can send us a text from the link in our show notes or just shoot us a DM on socials. Thanks for joining us for let's Unpack that brought to you by Ohio Counseling Conversations and the Ohio Counseling Association. If it sparks something for you, share it with a colleague or drop us a line. We'd love to keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening and until next time we encourage you to keep unpacking the big stuff, one conversation at a time.