Ohio Counseling Conversations
The official Ohio Counseling Association podcast. Our mission is to host experts from our membership, leadership, and throughout the counseling field to bring listeners relevant conversations around what it means to be a counselor in Ohio. In addition, this podcast will provide a platform for Ohio Counseling Association divisions, chapters, and committees to share information and updates. Made for counselors by counselors, we hope to highlight important conversations in the profession that will inform our work as we continue to grow as professionals and as people. Thank you for tuning in! Views, beliefs, or references mentioned in episodes do not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by the Ohio Counseling Association. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the view of the Ohio Counseling Association or any of its officials.
Ohio Counseling Conversations
Let's Unpack That #9: Counseling, According to Pop Culture
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What if your first lesson about therapy came from a horror villain or a five‑minute breakthrough montage? We dive into the stories that taught us what counselors are supposed to be—stoic saviors, boundary‑blurrers, or secret masterminds—and compare them with what ethical care actually looks like. From Ted Lasso’s Dr. Sharon holding firm lines to the seductive manipulation of Hannibal, we explore why writers lean on spectacle, how those choices shape public trust, and what gets lost when healing is edited for prime time.
We trade notes on the moments that made us wince and the rare scenes that felt grounded: clear roles, minimal self‑disclosure, and the slow build of rapport. Then we zoom out to the asylum aesthetic that haunts pop culture, the criminal therapist trope that criminalizes care, and the reality TV promise of instant transformation. Along the way, we unpack the power differential in counseling, why boundaries are safety not distance, and how quick “cures” on screen create false expectations that can keep people from seeking help.
If media has shaped your view of counseling, bring that curiosity with you. Ask about credentials, specialties, confidentiality, and how your counselor handles limits and repairs. Good practice welcomes questions and names power clearly. And if a show gave you language for your pain, keep the language and leave the fear. Press play to learn how to separate plot devices from real-life support, and share the episode with someone who’s therapy‑curious but hesitant. Subscribe, rate, and tell us which on‑screen therapist or counselor you want us to unpack next.
What do you think? Send us your questions or topics you'd like us to unpack!
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Created by the OCA's Media, Public Relations, and Membership (MPRM) Committee & its Podcast Subcommittee
·Hosted by Victoria Frazier with guest Lauren Collins-Knight
·Pre-Production & Coordination by Marisa Cargill and Victoria Frazier
·Editing by Marisa Cargill
·Original music selections by Elijah Satoru Wood
Setting The Stage: Therapists On TV
SPEAKER_00Welcome to Let's Unpack That, a short form segment from Ohio Counseling Conversations, where we dig into the topics, tools, and truths that shape our work as counselors. Whether it's a trending issue, a clinical insight, or something we've all been thinking about, we're here to process it together.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to Let's Unpack That on Ohio Counseling Conversations. I'm Victoria Frasier, and I'm Lauren Collins Knight. And today we are unpacking a topic I've been really excited to do for a little while now, and we're gonna talk about how therapists are portrayed in movies and TV. And I do consciously say therapist and not counselor because I feel like most people working with clients I see on TV are psychologists, but I feel like we all do very similar work. And so I feel like we can still speak on them.
SPEAKER_02Agreed. They never share those credentials. It's like some vague, they're a psychotherapist, but also they're able to prescribe me meds. And I'm like, okay.
SPEAKER_01They always have like a special superpower that I didn't know we could do. And of course it's because we actually can't, but I'm always like, oh, I didn't know you guys could do all this now. This is kind of fun. I, as you know, Lauren just by the product of knowing me, consume media like it's going out of style. But I feel like I never see any therapists on TV or in movies where I'm like, actually, I would let them be my therapist.
SPEAKER_02No, I have yet to see one where I'd be like, and I'll and I'll get on that caseload.
SPEAKER_01Has has there was one where I was like, oh, maybe. And it was in Ted Lasso, like Dr. I think her name is Dr. Sharon. I think I've watched that show like five times. But her she at the beginning is great. She has really strong boundaries. I I'm not familiar with how like sports psychology or how that job really functions because she is seeing the entire team, which I feel like is kind of crazy. Like the she's like the team's therapist. Oh my gosh. Um but I don't know if that's how it works, you know what I mean? I'm sorry, all I'm thinking of is these dual relationships
Boundaries And Dr. Sharon In Ted Lasso
SPEAKER_01of like your yeah, that's okay. So tell me more. She's seeing all of them. But I have he's seeing the entire soccer team because and it's quite bad. Danny Rojas, one of the players, kicked the soccer ball or the football. It happens in the UK, and it hits a dog, Earl, the team's mascot, and Earl unfortunately passes on. Oh my god. I'm so sorry to stop this note.
SPEAKER_02Um but she was somehow she she did a good enough job that you were like, maybe, maybe I would see her.
SPEAKER_01Maybe. So, like, so what happened was Danny Rojas accidentally hit Earl with the soccer ball, and then Danny Rojas couldn't really play soccer anymore. And so the they the the the coach of the team, Ted, was like very anti-therapist, but he kind of got overruled. And they bring in this like renowned sports counselor therapist, and she begin she sees Danny and like it is kind of unlike impractical because he does recover quite quickly. Okay. He's like, I'm gonna be okay. But like Dr. Sharon like begins seeing Ted eventually, and he like really pushes her boundaries and she stays very strong with them, and she has a very different style to me. She's very like tight-lipped, she doesn't do any self-disclosure, like she doesn't want anything like to impede their relationship. And but eventually she kind of figures out, like, okay, Ted needs a little bit of give. So she lets him like call her Doc. Like he lets her call her doc. And like they she kind of opens up a little bit and it it works for a while, but then it like gets crazy where like she's drinking with them after a and like she's like letting him escort her home from the hospital when she gets this show's goosend so violent when she gets hit by a car. She's fine. Okay, she's fine. It was a light tap, she's fine, everyone's fine. But so like at the beginning, I was like, wow, they're doing a really good job with this, and then it just kind of like went off the rails a little bit. I think that's the closest to ever being where I was like, I don't play sports, but I would let Dr. Sharon talk to me. Like, I think she could she could give it to me straight a little bit, very classically trained. Yeah, it was giving like gestalt to me. Like when I was in grad school and I would watch the gestalt video, I was like, You're being kind of mean, but I'm just a sensitive flower. But what is kind of like a therapist that comes to mind for you when you're thinking about like therapy on TV?
SPEAKER_02Oh my goodness, Tori, you're my friend. You know, I read a lot of horror, so I think first of like the like psychology and counseling portrayed in like different horror, like TV and movies and stuff, like Hannibal from like the TV show, but also Silence of the Lambs kind of comes to mind. I know he's a psychiatrist, but he wasn't really writing scripts with Will Graham. He was just he was just doing the worst.
SPEAKER_01I mean, he was giving him a prescription, but it was not a pill. Yeah, he was like, I think you should eat a person. Yeah, like maybe we should put a little like warning on this episode content dreams ahead. Yeah. But, anyways, yes, for those that don't know, Hannibal is a cannibal which rhymes and is really powerful. But I've never seen the show. What's he like in the show? I hope he's slightly more competent than he was in the movie. He comes across. I have read the book though. Oh, you've read the book. Oh my gosh. I love that. In the show, I read it on the way. Sorry. I read it on the way to the counseling conference like a three years ago. Oh my gosh. I was listening to it on the drive. But anyways, tell me about the show. I love
Hannibal, Ethics, And Power
SPEAKER_01that.
SPEAKER_02In the show, he is also kind of like a tight, like an uptight. He's like, I have my three-piece suit on. We are like very professional and everything. But I don't think they originally start off the show with like Will going to see him as like a client. He's like there consulting with the FBI, similar to how they like bring Will Graham on, and they're like, You're gonna consult for us because you have an empathy like disorder, and you can you can really get into the minds of those serial killers, huh? We need you on the team. And it's like that was that was a decision for sure. And he starts like having understandably so, a lot of like problems and like blurred boundaries of understanding himself because he keeps empathizing with these serial killers to understand like why they would commit these crimes, and so he goes to get some care, get some help from Hannibal. Not helpful, not helpful at all.
SPEAKER_01Wait, so like they were both consulting. Did they know each other before he started like having therapy from Hannibal? In a way, yes. So that's already unethical.
SPEAKER_02He I remember I just distinctly remember him like bringing in, they like had breakfast together before they were even like he like begrudgingly was like, Yeah, you can pick my brain. I'm like, oh no, that's not okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I guess it listen, it's so fun to watch, but I don't know that we should be taking ethical guidance from any of the the TV, film, movie media.
SPEAKER_02Because ethical counseling does not make a good action-packed like plot line, does it now?
SPEAKER_01No, I guess that's so fair. I feel like one of the things I always see like that can therapists do on TV is like they're evil. Like these guys are evil and they want power and control. And I think like not to keep it in the horror realm, I think about like American Horror Story. There were like notable therapists in the first two seasons, and they were both just committing crimes up and down the world. Like the first one, he I don't remember so much about like what he was doing, but there was like he was seeing a ghost, so that's tough, you know. But he's seeing the clients in his house where his wife and child are home. Like, I don't know. I guess it's like maybe if you have really good soundproofing and like you inform your clients that they're there, but that just seems so like boundaries are so bored in the house, yeah. In the home, in the house, and it's like, how are you keeping things like how are you securing your records? Like, at least do those have two locks, like you know what I mean? Like, I don't know, like, and then also the boundaries of just like, hey, you live here, I'm gleaning a lot of information from the from the walk from the front door into the office, or even just like where your house is.
SPEAKER_02Like, oh yeah, like even like about it. Are you in the suburbs? Are you in the city? Like I I'm gleaning. Hey, I know where your house is, I'm coming over. They could come come over whenever, and it's like, yeah, it's my house, I'll probably be there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm I'm at my house all the time. One thing about me, I'm at home. And so, like, the first one is pretty bad, but then in the second one, this guy's doing just actual crime. He's so the second season of Rigan's story story takes place in an asylum, which is also bad. But this man, if I remember correctly, is a Nazi. And he's doing like conversion therapy on Sarah Paulson. Safe. And of course, like oh, what a star, what a diva. I love that season and I love her so much. But like, of course, it's like, I don't know. I guess you could make the argument that like these aren't being portrayed as like gold star standards. True.
SPEAKER_02They're not the counter videos we're seeing in master's level classes.
SPEAKER_01And they're
Asylums, Horror Tropes, And Stigma
SPEAKER_01also like in the narrative, not being portrayed as like inherently competent or like good at their jobs, but also I feel like that is what most people are like that's their first exposure to the world of therapy. And I feel like that just creates like a lot of stigma. It does.
SPEAKER_02That was a lot of that was my first exposure to like psychology in the profession. Is like I was kind of into horror, kind of not as a teen. And I was like, oh my gosh, all these asylums, all of this history, like this is really intense and kind of scary, but also very interesting. And it just like leans into this idea of like I wouldn't, I don't want to generalize, but I I think like a lot of folks that might be one of their first images that comes to mind when they think of mental health.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, there is a we have a long history in the mental health profession of subpar care back, you know, when we didn't have a lot of research and a lot of knowledge. Like even now, like this is my job. And when someone says asylum to me, I'm thinking that season of American horror story. I was this a vulnerable moment. I was very into Teen Wolf as a child, and they were in and out of that asylum, like you wouldn't believe. And it there's also like an asylum on stranger things, right? And I they're always like for some reason, and Hannibal's in an asylum. All of these people are for some reason behind bars, they are locked up, like in locked up, like can't be free, can't even go out for their hour of yard time, like horrifically treated. And some of these are historical things, right, are happening in the past. But like, Stranger Things is from the 80s. Like, they put Hannibal not only in that place, but in the basement, no window. Like, I hope they're giving him a vitamin D supplement because that poor man, like, locked down there, and like, yeah, he ate people, but come on now. And also, it wasn't real. That's true. I just but it's still behind bars.
SPEAKER_02There's like this, yeah. This like idea of like people like like mental illness is dangerous to the point that like we need them locked down, locked up. They can't like be roaming free in their room, they can't be going out in the yard getting vitamin D because like it's somehow too dangerous, too much, too intense. And that's like a lot of people's first kind of like idea when they think of mental health is like something really intense and pervasive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think even more than that, like the providers are portrayed as dangerous, like in Silence of the Lambs, like Clarice goes to the asylum to talk to Hannibal. And even before that, she meets I think he's a psychiatrist, but he might be a psychologist, the guy who's running the asylum, and he's like disgusting and creepy towards her, and he's not like overtly like committing crimes, right? But he's clearly portrayed as not to be trusted. Or like, I love criminal minds, and there's an episode of criminal minds where the the person committing the crimes is using like he's a therapist and he specifically specializes in treating phobias, and then he like uses the phobias to murder his clients. Oh my god, and that's like an episode of Criminal Minds that I saw when I was like quite young. I was watching Criminal Minds at an irresponsible age, but I turned out okay. But I remember that episode so clearly, and first of all, it is like a banger episode of TV, it's so good, but then like getting older, I would see people like talking about criminal minds online, or just like even like my friends who would watch it, and I would see people say, like, that's why I'm never going to a therapist. That's see, I knew it. And it's like, well, this is fiction. Oh no.
SPEAKER_02Oh man, I didn't realize it was that intense.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like I'm not, I don't know how Reddit works, but in preparation for this episode, I was looking up like that episode of Criminal Mind, and I found like a Reddit thread about that episode. And there were multiple people in the comments who are like, this is why I don't trust therapists. Like this episode was the first one. Oh my gosh. And I I I was just so shocked to see that. But I mean, I can also understand how if if you don't have experience or you
Criminal Minds And Fear Of Counselors
SPEAKER_01don't have a loved one who's who's gone through therapy or maybe is working with clients themselves, I can understand how it's it's a very vulnerable thing to do, right? To confide in someone like our clients talk to us.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I think this is kind of lending to what we as counselors have to keep in mind is like the power difference differential in the counseling relationship. The client is being very vulnerable and sharing these things, and is, you know, often willingly entering in a dysregulated state to learn how to cope with this and to practice new skills with us and to get greater understanding. And that's a very vulnerable, oftentimes like scary place to be in, especially if there are these messages about the profession and about like psychology and counseling of like, what if my therapist is like a power-hungry, creepy person? What if they're acting unbelievably unethically?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I think you know, we can do all of the good faith work and and advocate for ourselves and and show up in our community, but the there's just so much power in what we see on on in media. Like that's that's how we learn, right? We we learn by seeing others. We learn from social learning things. Oh yeah. Yeah. The other thing I was thinking about while I was kind of like lightly outlining this episode was I my other guilty pleasure is reality television. Like when I was a child, I was watching Hoarders, I was watching My Strange Addiction, I was watching anything that the learning channel deemed me needing education on. Like I was locked in. And even when I was young, I would see them go to, I'm making air quotes for people who can't see me, therapy with with providers, and they would be filmed for TV. And I would think, like, well, that seems bad. That seems bad for ethics, it seems bad for the client, and it seems bad for the therapist. I don't know. What do you think when you see stuff like that?
SPEAKER_02I so I struggle to watch reality TV because I get secondhand embarrassment, and I just like feel so I just feel for the folks like on these TV shows, especially like quarters and like my strange addiction, where I'm like, I almost am like these these providers or these folks trying to come in and like help them. I'm doing air quotes with help around help, is like it feels almost more like they're taking advantage of them or like wanting to parade them around like like a sideshow at a circus, rather than be like, hey, there's some serious trauma that's happened, and this has resulted in you thinking I can't throw anything away. It might have a like a significant purpose, or like I'm very sentimental about this. And like certainly that is you know, exposure in some ways of like, you know, these are more common than we might think, but I don't know, just like the way that they go about it. I'm like, there's just not enough. Here's me. I I just love education, I love psychoeducation. There's just not enough of it in reality TV. Which you could have been like, yeah, duh.
SPEAKER_01It's reality TV. I would never say yeah, duh. No, I mean, I think there's two sides to the coin, right?
Reality TV, “Therapy,” And Consent
SPEAKER_01Like, I do think it sparks, I mean, I know it sparked my interest when I was young, like it it was so fascinating to me. But I also had a lot of moments like that where I would feel really like saddened by their stories or like what led us here. At the same time, I also think a lot about how reality TV is still TV and how some of this is maybe not the truest to their life. I think Hoarders is a little harder to like fake. But I have seen people talking about their experiences on My Strange Addiction, and they were like, like Trisha Paytas, who I'm sure everyone is very familiar with, but she's an internet personality. She has her own mental health that she talks about pretty openly now, but she just wanted to be on TV all the time until she the producers contacted her and were like, Do you have an addiction? And she was like, Not really. And they were like, Well, do you want to say you're addicted to tanning and be on TV? And she was like, Yeah. I know, really, and not the reminder that it could be fake. I know. I forget too. Sometimes when I'm watching the housewives scream at each other and they're all wearing powdered wigs and they're on a cruise ship for some reason, like I'm like, no, this is real to me. But it is manufactured for drama, for entertainment. And so I think that's also really important when we're talking about this, you know, with other professionals and also with clients, that we have we have to be mindful of the context in which we live. I was a very before we wrap up. Before we wrap up, I have to talk about my favorite therapist who is barely a therapist in her piece of media. But in the movie Twister, in the seminal classic Twister, Bill Pullman's girlfriend, Melissa, is a therapist and he brings her to chase tornadoes. And while they're driving after a tornado, she gets a call from a client. She answers it, which is mistake one. In the company of others, she's answering her call from a client, and she's like doing therapy over the phone in the back of the truck while they're chasing a tornado. And she does deliver the light of the movie to me, which she's talking on the phone. A tornado is in front of their car and it picks up a cow and it's throwing the cow around in the tornado. And to her client on the phone, she goes, Oh, I gotta let you go, we got cows. It's best movie therapist I've ever seen. The chaos of it all. Oh my gosh. She's like, I gotta let you go, we got cows, and then she just hangs up on them. And they do have cows. It's incredible filmmaking. If ever if anyone hasn't seen that, I highly recommend you go look up the clip. I'm tickled. I'm tickled by this. This is hysterical. I once saw someone had a needle point in their office that said, I gotta let you go. We got cows. And I would, I was like, oh, I know you're I I trust you implicitly, which is maybe not how it would feel now as an adult. But when I was 13, I was like, oh, I know, I know I can rock with you. Iconic. Iconic of them. Incredible. Well, I honestly I feel like there's so much unsaid that we haven't touched on this topic. I'd love to revisit in the future. If you have any movie or TV or therapists from books that you'd like us to talk about in a future episode, please feel free to reach out on social media and let us know what you'd like to see. But thank you so much for being here,
The Twister Therapist And Comic Chaos
SPEAKER_01Lauren. I really had a lot of fun today. Me too. And I would love to come back for a part two and revisit this topic. I feel like we have I've I've I genuinely have about six more things I could say, but we should probably we should go. But thank you so much. I look forward to having you back.
SPEAKER_00I look forward to being back. Thank you. Thanks for joining us for Let's Unpack That, brought to you by Ohio Counseling Conversations and the Ohio Counseling Association. If it sparks something for you, share it with a colleague or drop us a line. We'd love to keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening. And until next time, we encourage you to keep unpacking the big stuff one conversation at a time. Let's unpack that as a podcast intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views, opinions, and references shared by hosts or guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Ohio Counseling Association. Any appearance by a guest does not imply an endorsement of them, their views, or any organizations they may represent. Content discussed should not be interpreted as official positions, recommendations, or endorsements by OCA or its leadership.