Misdiagnosis & Person-Centred Practice: Re-Centring the Person with Abbey Brocklehurst & Freya Wood

In this episode of Person-Centred Conversations, Abbey Brocklehurst is interviewed about her experience of misdiagnosis. Abbey Brocklehurst is a BACP Registered Person-Centred Therapist with an MA in Counselling and Psychotherapy Practice and a BA (Hons) in Psychology with Counselling. She has extensive experience working across private practice, charities, and a range of organisations. Having been misdiagnosed with BPD at the age of 21, which was later corrected to a diagnosis of AuDHD at age 31, Abbey brings both lived and counselling experience to her work, offering unique insight into the complexities and consequences of psychiatric labelling. Her practice is grounded in the values of empathy, authenticity, and respect for the client’s own capacity for growth.
Abbey's website - www.mindsthatmatter.co.uk

Abbey is interviewed by Freya Wood. 

Person-Centred Practice Community

Transcript

Freya Wood: 0:01

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Person-Centered Conversations podcast, which is produced by person-centered practice community. I'm here with Abby Brocklehurst, a qualified therapist based in Liverpool. We both met when we were students at Liverpool Johns University, and today Abby is going to talk about her experience with, um, her BPD diagnosis.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 0:24

Uh, so I'm Abby and I got diagnosed with borderline personality disorder at the age of 21, and that's also known as Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder. EUPD. I just prefer the term BPD 'cause that's what's on my Medical. Medical. And I say it's a misdiagnosis because recently I was diagnosed with autism and A DHD instead.

Freya Wood: 0:54

So that's quite a, a change from BPD to, um, a whole new diagnosis. So what was important about sharing your journey then with, um, the person centered community?

Abbey Brocklehurst: 1:08

Because I just feel like there, I'm not against psychiatry, but I feel like the psychiatry world lacks the holistic approach in seeing the person as a whole person. And I was just. A BPD label without looking at all the other elements that was going on in my life. And I was very on-label for quite a while because of the experience I had with the misdiagnosis. So I feel it's just so important for centered therapists to just be aware of that, know the dangers that can come with labels because the stigma's associated with them. Lots of other feelings.

Freya Wood: 1:50

So if you go back to when you were diagnosed, what was your life like at the time?

Abbey Brocklehurst: 1:58

Quite chaotic. I was 21. I was a mom at 18, so I didn't have like quite a typical life. I had 21. I was in a really toxic relationship and I didn't think at the time like. I'd really accepted quite a lot'cause we face relationships and not really to go off. So I hadn't really discussed this that much in the assessment for BPD. So I think that's why I was diagnosed'cause like my life was quite chaotic. I was having like a lot of like ups and down moods and that's 'cause my relationship was very up and down. Um, and that just led to that diagnosis.

Freya Wood: 2:45

And did you find straight away it was a label that defined you, so it kind of helped you understand who you were? Or did you find it was something that made you retreat and kind of, you know, maybe not, maybe go in on yourself, something maybe you weren't able to have as an identity?

Abbey Brocklehurst: 3:06

No, I think I, I did become the label for quite a while. So I felt like when I got it, I was like, right, well, this is what's up with me. Like, I felt like I understood it because it did meet a lot of the characteristics. So I felt like I became, I, I actually used it as an excuse for like quite a lot of poor behavior as well, like things that wasn't proud of, and. I felt like it gave me a sense of understanding and I joined a lot of like community groups, like for support groups with BPD and done group therapy for other people with BPD. And it did feel a sense of belonging to an extent.'cause I always felt that I wasn't quite the same as other people with the diagnosis. Mm-hmm. Um, so it just always felt like different. But I, I do feel that. I went more towards the diagnosis, like I lived for it.

Freya Wood: 4:03

And you talked about being part of a community. So at the time, were you aware of any stigma associated to this label or were you just mixing with other people who had similar diagnose diagnosis as yourself? So it didn't feel that strange.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 4:23

I didn't really, I didn't know what it was when I was diagnosed with it. She just told me I can never gave me like a printed NHS leaflet about it. And that was as much as I knew and I'd bought a book on it, um, and read that. So this book wasn't very stigmatizing. It is of a reason back now, but at the time it wasn't. That was what the research was on BPD. Um, so I didn't really feel a stigma at first. I didn't know any different. I would say my stigma more came from some people who had BPD as well and just more the outside world.

Freya Wood: 5:03

Mm-hmm. So that kind of goes back to even in the community. You said you didn't entirely feel like you fitted. So maybe people who also knew that they kind of within your own community, other you in a way.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 5:17

Yeah. And. It was like at times where like I could be quite compass as well. Like they suffered more or because BPD is like linked to like a significant trauma, like it's like trauma battles as well. Like some people like, oh, well I went through X, Y, and Z and you never. Mm-hmm. Um, so that was always a challenge.

Freya Wood: 5:39

Mm.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 5:39

And then, yeah, I just always felt different.

Freya Wood: 5:44

And did you find that. When you were getting help for the things you were experiencing and the symptoms that you had, was there an immediate focus on medication and kind of pharmacology or Yeah. Was there any mention of talking therapy or any community groups that you could join?

Abbey Brocklehurst: 6:05

No, I was put on med straight away. I was actually medicated before they got the diagnosis, so like. Just before they got a BPD diagnosis, I was misdiagnosed with bipolar first. Very short winded, like, like six weeks that before I had bipolar. Um, so I was put on an antipsychotic then. Then when I got me BPD diagnosis, I was already on the antipsychotics, so just made sense for them to keep me on it. And then that got increased and increased and increased. And then it was only when I was at like the maximum dosage that I could have and there was no medication shown to work for BPD. So this was just like trial and error, so that when it didn't work, then that was when I was offered therapy. And this is back when there was no waiting list as well.

Freya Wood: 6:54

Mm.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 6:54

So you're talking like 10 years ago

Freya Wood: 6:57

and Well, you can tell me, but I imagine at that point. You may have not have had that aspiration to become a therapist at that stage. And I wonder how different your experience would've been if maybe therapy was offered before medication now that you know more about therapy.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 7:19

Yeah, and I do, you know, even I didn't want to be a therapist then initially before I had anything when I was younger, I always wanted to be a psychologist. Um. But even in that moment, I would've thought, I can't because I've got BPD now and I thought I wouldn't be able to have a job 'cause I had BPD. Mm-hmm. Like I'd never, I'd never be able to do anything because I felt such a stigma. No one was stigmatizing me at that point, but I, I was doing it to myself, um, because me life was just like so chaotic and up and down

Freya Wood: 7:54

it go. And it goes back to that assumption that. Some believe, oh, in order to be a therapist you have to be this perfect, you know, ready-made, uh, individual who can put all of their personal difficulties and traumas aside to help others. But I think we now know that that's just not possible.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 8:17

No. Or sustainable either to try to be a pay effect person like that. Mm-hmm. I think like. The way that therapies misrepresent in the media. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And like on tele shows and films doesn't help. Mm. It's a very well put together person. Mm-hmm. That's always in it. So yes, that was a contributed. I wouldn't have thought I was being able to be a therapist.

Freya Wood: 8:42

Yeah. And so when you then embarked on your university course, there were your masters in particular, um, studying. A master's degree in person centered therapy, were you coming into that course thinking that this diagnosis wasn't coming with you or were you still very much like, well this is the diagnosis I have, so I just have to get on with it? Um, yeah. Um,

Abbey Brocklehurst: 9:12

so when I, I'd done my undergraduate before, ah, I'd been asked a few times if I was neurodivergent. I always had like was morning lockdown. I had like some suspicions that I had a DHD and I'd done like referrals and waited and so it got lost. Um, so before that start of my master's, I already didn't identify with the BPD that much. So I used to say like, I have a diagnosis of BPD rather than I have BP, D, or I am diagnosed. I'd already separated myself. But still had it enough where I would mention it just on the off chance I have got it. Mm-hmm. It thought it was always way of mentioning, so I was still 50 50 when I was on my master's.

Freya Wood: 10:02

Yeah. And um, and I remember with us being both in the same cohort that we did a lesson or a lecture on, uh, BPD and. How conflicted you felt from my point of view as your friend? I don't think you were necessarily ashamed or felt, actually, if I remember rightly, you talked about your experience in front of the year group. Mm-hmm. So it must have been, I mean, that's quite a journey from diagnosis to, well now I'm gonna become a therapist. Yeah. Already sharing your, your life quite publicly.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 10:41

Yeah, it was. Um, and yeah, I did speak quite openly about that. I felt I was misdiagnosed. I think that was in the second year. Yeah, second year to uni. So I think like has the time on me. Masters went on. The more and more it became separated from it. The more clients I worked with, the more separated it became from me diagnosis.'cause I'd worked with people with BPD and people with Neurodivergence as well. Mm-hmm. So I was start to become more aware of the similarities between the two diagnosis and, and yeah. And just like speaking to you as well at uni, that I started to feel I had a DHD. The autism came over shock to me, but I knew, I, I knew I had a DHD so I think the phase four about becoming a therapist was when I did have therapy. Um, I had a long term therapist and it was around then was I shared with, I shared with the therapist that I was, I was gonna go to uni. Um, it was initially to be a psychologist 'cause. They was so it was fair to people. They were qualified, psychologist, and then dummy psychology degree found that was very clinical and didn't like it and felt that was the world of psychiatry that I didn't really like. And that's when I chose person centeredness because I like that that viewed the person as a whole.

Freya Wood: 12:10

Mm. Yeah. So it wasn't so much that you were fully rejecting it, but you were more considering alternatives or, or yeah. O other possibilities rather than, this is the one thing, and off you go. Um, you talked a little bit about, kind of at the point of diagnosis, you know, you, you were 21, life was chaotic. Um, so do you think, looking back now the environment. The dynamics you were living in, if you had not been in that specific situation, you perhaps would've never have even been diagnosed in the first place, or how do you now view it?

Abbey Brocklehurst: 12:50

Yeah, a hundred percent. I can't understand why I wasn't diagnosed with a DHD 21. Like thinking back, like I felt like I just had every exact symptom of what someone with A-D-H-D-S. I think because of the environment I was in, it made more BPD because me environment wasn't the best and I just felt like I just couldn't grow as a person in that environment. I think if I stayed in that environment all my life, I wouldn't have ever became a therapist. It was only when I'd left me relationship. So I had left the environment, left the relationship, and then came off my medication and then didn't identify with having BPD anymore. And then I went to university. So from like ages 17 to 24 was quite like the same environment.

Freya Wood: 13:48

Yeah. And, and you know, part of the training or a big part of person centered. Training is all about understanding environment and the impact it has on behavior, wellbeing, mental health. And perhaps had you been in an environment that was much more conducive for you expressing your self through a an a DHD point of view? I wonder if that would've been picked up. I think so.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 14:20

Yeah. Yeah, I do think so. Um, and a template in. Psychiatry. I'm not Antip psychiatry. I didn't blame them. I had the characteristics for the diagnosis so I can understand it. They just couldn't see me environment and I wasn't fully open with it. Mm-hmm. Um, so I know that's a huge factor, but I do think if I was in like the right conditions, if I was given the right conditions, my life would been very different. I might became a therapist earlier. I might in need of that life to become the therapist I am today. Mm-hmm. So I'm not too sure on it, but I do stand strongly by saying that I couldn't out as a person if I'd continue to stay in there.'cause it's not a coincidence that everything got better. I, once I left that environment.

Freya Wood: 15:12

Yeah. And I think if you think about your client work in particular. And I don't know, you may have had clients say to you, I've been diagnosed with this, or I was diagnosed with this, but now it's, you know, it's either still remaining or they've got a new diagnosis. Does that help you connect sometimes with clients who express a similar situation? Or do you find that everybody's, you know, everybody's kind of. Journey is, is so individual to them.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 15:50

No, I do think it helps me connect with them. I've had a lot of clients that don't resonate with A BPD diagnosis and a lot of clients diagnosed as an adult with neuro divergence. And I, I do think helps me connect with clients, me sharing my journey. So I'm always quite open. Around that I was only diagnosed as an adult that I also had a misdiagnosis.

Freya Wood: 16:21

Mm. And it makes me think about in therapy how important certain questions are. And because a question that just came to mind then is what question could or should have you been asked that would've then allowed you to go down that non. Route, you know, like what needs do you have or, um, do you know what's wrong with you? You know, it, it would be interesting if that conversation had happened in a kind of Yeah. Like a person centered therapy. Even a person centered medical

Abbey Brocklehurst: 16:59

Yeah.

Freya Wood: 16:59

Perspective.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 17:01

I think if it did be more patient centered and asked like, how I felt about it, if I resignated with it. Like just putting me and my voice back into it. I would've, I, I don't think I would've went on medication. Mm-hmm. I just seen as they were a psychiatrist, they told me mm-hmm. What it was, they told me what was the best resolution and I thought, well, they clearly knew best because,

Freya Wood: 17:30

which, which is highlights a not an issue as such because like you, I'm, I'm not. Psychiatry and I'm not anti medical models. But now that you are qualified and you work with people who are perhaps in a similar position of you, it, it's nice to know that there is an alternative. I suppose it's sad that at the time there were no alternatives.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 17:58

No, no, and I think that's why I quite like long term therapy as well, rather than short term therapy is like. If I had only had eight sessions, even if I'd had a therapy, then if I'd only had eight sessions, I dunno how much I would've disclose. Mm-hmm. Was I wake with my therapist at the time for 18 months and from what I remember, it was only towards the last end of the month that like I started to put like pieces of a puzzle back together. Mm. And started to really understand the impact of. The environment and the life I've had and really explored how I'd felt more from like a person centered, like having the my voice and the freedom to speak about that felt very different. Whereas in eight weeks, that would've been impossible, and I feel that pressure in, in, in client work as well. The difference of working on a placement in an organization compared to working in private practice. Mm-hmm.

Freya Wood: 19:01

Yeah. Almost like in private practice, you are not dictating a specific model or, or you're not suggesting a golden number of sessions. Yeah. And maybe with that relationship, it, it then allows for clients to explore mm-hmm. Um, their own situation. Yeah. So if you look at the shift from BPD to. You now diagnosis of A DHD and autism? What, well, what, what really led you to begin questioning and actually thinking formally? No. I, I, I want to, I wanna see if, if I do have an alternative diagnosis,

Abbey Brocklehurst: 19:48

um, like I, I already have the separation at night from like the diagnosis I had said I have. Um. I have a diagnosis rather than I am. And then, I don't know, I, I remember it was like I was diagnosed, it was like the beginning of the third year. Um, I've done, I think it was after talking about BPD, I'd done the talk on BPD. And I ended the talk with Cyan. I can't remember now. I ended my talk with Cyan. I don't know if I've got B-P-D-A-D-H-D or something else, but, and then listed things I knew about myself and I thought that was really nice. But then afterwards I was like, I actually don't know, like I've actually sat in and I was like, I actually dunno what I've got. And I'd been so scared of labels for so long that I felt like, well. Even if I have got a DHD, it is still a label, so I didn't want, I didn't wanna replace one with another, so I just put it off. And then waiting list as well after COVID was just horrendous. So again, I kept putting it off until, yeah, I, I think I just, I just felt like it was the right time to discover that 10 30, so. Mm, that was always like a factor, didn't it? And then I'd had many conversations with you at the time as well. I was, I was scared if I went to A-A-D-H-D appointment and they said, no, you haven't got it. And you have got BPDI would just was, I was be self stasis. I remember you would've sent me right back.

Freya Wood: 21:26

Yeah. I remember. Um, I remember a text from you at the time after you'd done, you just, you'd gone to both appointments so that the A DHD and the autism appointments obviously done separately. And I remember you sending a message which was on the lines of, what am I going to do if they say I don't have these labels? Is that a confirmation of BPD or is it still almost an unanswered, um, yeah, journey that, that you still haven't kind of come to a resolution. And I think I just almost remembered reading it and feeling that this really is a big deal for you. And it's, and it's. I know how much you didn't want the diagnosis, but not because of any stigma. It was that internal conflict. You just didn't feel it didn't sit right with you.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 22:20

Yeah, and it's taking that person sense, feeling like having like the ideal self and having that conflict between where you see yourself and your previous self. I really struggled with that. Like it didn't align. And I don't think I was my authentic self without knowing what my identity was. And that was a big part of my identity, was having this label that creeped up in lots of different areas of my life. Mm-hmm. So I just felt like I couldn't, I couldn't get to that stage of my authentic self without mm-hmm. Accepting all of it. And I was never accepting of the BPD, so I never felt like I was being offensive because I was always in some shape or form hiding apart. Of an identity.

Freya Wood: 23:06

Yeah. And, and again, I've got memories of you calling me and going, I've got my results. And I was like, yeah, what'd they say? And in a way, you were shocked about the autism. You were. I was, yeah. Um, but there was also so much compassion kind of for your old self, kind of that whole, you obviously weren't referring to yourself in the third person, but I just felt that sense of. I knew, I knew I was X, you know, or whatever, whatever version that suddenly clicked for you when you got that diagnosis. And it was almost a, it was like, yeah, there was a bit of compassion behind previous, you almost, it wasn't, it wasn't your fault, you were misled or

Abbey Brocklehurst: 23:48

like a grief bit. Like I was really compassionate for my young self, but aggrieved at the same time. Think like if I'd just been diagnosed earlier, I might have had a different life. Better support and more self-acceptance in certain areas. But the autism one did come as a shock. It took me a lot longer to process that one.

Freya Wood: 24:09

Mm-hmm. I know you don't have to go into any detail, but um, is there any specific things where you can now go, right, that makes sense? Oh yeah. Like all of it.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 24:24

All of it. Even like reading me reports. When I read my report back of everything that they'd sent like in, in like PD groups in uni, my feedback was always like how blunt I I can be and I'm quite assertive and straight talk. And I was like, oh, well that makes a lot of sense because I can't sit in a gray area. I will say how I feel. Will say how it is, but because I've got a strong skills accent as well, it makes, it sounds a bit more blunt. So that's like both, both things going on at the same time. And then just like struggles at school, always feeling like I didn't fit in. And then like with BPD, a lot of it is suicide ideation. I didn't have that part. So that made a lot of sense. Mm-hmm. And the crossover with A DHD symptoms and BPD. So it made a lot of sense why I'm a bit more impulsive mm-hmm. As the average person, but I'd still probably say I'm just like quite spontaneous. I don't like to put everything down to me, A DHD, like I wanna be able to just, even though I've got a label and I'm happy with the label I've got now, I still. Like to just think of things as a person. So if I booked a holiday, people say, got a DH, adhd, being impulsive, I, I just wanna be spontaneous and if I'm not doing any harm, it's still okay to do that. Yeah. So I can still face, like, I wouldn't go as far saying it's stigma, but more like. I dunno assumptions. Well,

Freya Wood: 26:09

uh, I, as you were talking, I, what was coming to mind was almost authenticity. Mm-hmm. So almost being like permission to be a hundred percent Abby, whether that's a DHD or autism or neither of those. It's just you wanna go on holiday.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 26:24

Yeah. And that's all I do now. I just be, make, and I know a lot of parts make are autism. Like if I'm very fidgety. I can self-disclose that to a client and say like, oh, I'm quite, I'm quite fidgety today. And like, I might stay and I self-disclose that I'm neurodivergent anyway. Mm. Just mainly because clients, it got to the point where they were asking me if I was neurodivergent, like I didn't know. Um, so it gave me permission to just be me. Mm. Me whole self and that's it. Mm. Whatever that is.

Freya Wood: 27:01

And. Is there, do you ever feel there's a vulnerability with sharing with clients, or do you manage it in a way where it just feels that it makes sense and, you know, and, and I imagine clients respond positively to it otherwise? Yeah. I I can't imagine you self-disclosing if it, if it wasn't working.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 27:24

Yeah. I feel it does go positively. Um, especially if they know they're divergent too. Because it's like that sense of, it's that sense of belonging that I craved. So yeah, I feel it introduces that into do. And I'm always very careful in like, you know, just 'cause I'm neurodivergent doesn't mean my reality's the same as their reality and different diagnosis like. Someone diagnosed as a kid can be very different. Someone diagnosed as an adult and someone might mask and I might not. There's lots of different variations, so I'm always very honest in saying that part. But yeah, I find a stronger connection when I'm more open and honest, and especially if it's a misdiagnosis. Like if a client's talking about that, mm, I'll find it easier to just self-disclose, like something like that. I resignate, I've had the

Freya Wood: 28:18

similar experience. Yeah. So actually it's, it's almost like, again, that han that authenticity, but also as a therapist. Yeah. I feel it's for the benefit, the clients as well. Yeah. Yeah. And, and with kind of like a broader reflection, can you, can you, from your experience, can you empathize with. People telling you about their misdiagnosis and also, you know, why is it it's still happening? You know, we, we have so much more knowledge about neurodiversity, but I, I know as a therapist myself, I still hear a lot about clients being, uh, misdiagnosed.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 29:06

Yes, yes. There's so many misdiagnosis and I really do like my heart. Totally goes out too then, 'cause I know how horrible it is to still be searching for answers, especially as an adult as well. Like people over the over 30, 40, 50 still haven't got answers for what's actually going on inside and the long waiting lists as well. So there's a panic around that in people trying to find. What's going on for them? Mm-hmm. I don't know if it's the questions that they ask why people are still misdiagnosed. I think that's why it still happens. But then at the same time, there's that many people who've been misdiagnosed are now getting correctly diagnosed. I feel that's created the opposite stigma.

Freya Wood: 29:57

Mm-hmm.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 29:57

So like now when I say I'm A DH, D, people are like hot to give them diagnosed out like hotcakes. I've had things like that. Mm-hmm. So I feel like. Even just over, like recently, the stigma, I'm starting to feel more now for being neurodivergent compared to what I did being BPD. Mm.

Freya Wood: 30:16

It's a different shift that you weren't anticipating?

Abbey Brocklehurst: 30:19

Yeah, because like there's a lot of diagnosis going out now and they're all very valid and it's because there was so many misdiagnosis given out that now would have to be corrected. But because the mass amounts, you know, it's, there was no one autistic in my day. Things like that. And. He was, he just wasn't diagnosed.

Freya Wood: 30:38

Mm-hmm. Especially, yeah. Females, young

Abbey Brocklehurst: 30:39

females. Yeah. And you know, overall a little bit nor those type agents, no one are. And if you feel that way, then you probably are and should. Maybe go and pursue that. Mm-hmm. But they're like little things that get said on like social medias and day to day. Mm-hmm. And there's a lot of misinformation, like on TikTok accounts, like five Signs to Know your A DHD, and it's, someone's forgotten about the washing machine. I'm like, I wish that was the biggest thing that went on. Mm-hmm. Like I didn't forget about my washing machine. I think I was nor those divergent. Mm-hmm. Like there was bigger stuff going on for me. Mm-hmm. So I feel like that's created a stigma. As well, the misdiagnosis and a diagnosis. So I've just became more easier now of just being like, I'm me. Yeah,

Freya Wood: 31:28

yeah. And, and sounds accept acceptance. Yeah. So what do you hope, for people who've listened to your story, what do you want them to take away from this? Whether they're. Person-centered therapists or maybe person-centered therapists in training

Abbey Brocklehurst: 31:51

don't make pre assumptions based on a diagnosis. Like just see the person as a whole person I think is so important for training therapists and for. All therapists to remember that a label is still a label, even if it's a correct label, it is still a label. And I have seen a lot of like therapists that will, um, not like diagnose, but like push a diagnosis and it's important to be patient with clients as well. You know, that's, I think that's quite significant. Like people can still feel shame. And yeah, shame around even a correct diagnosis, like hypothetical. Let's say they add BP, D and now they think it's autism. They can still feel shame with that because the stigma associated with certain things. So go at the client's pace that is being person centered

Freya Wood: 32:53

and it links into not judging them in that one. Scenario in that one space that you've met them, it's, it's, yeah. Also giving them time to explore.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 33:03

Exactly. You know, and I don't mind things like, you know, resonating with clients because you've got Neurodivergence as well. But it's that importance, like I said, that my reality isn't the same as their reality. And it's just to be aware of that, just 'cause I was happy getting a diagnosis doesn't mean that a client will feel the same. Mm-hmm. So it's just like. Just being

Freya Wood: 33:27

weary of that. And is there anything else that you haven't shared that you feel is really important that you would like to express? I just

Abbey Brocklehurst: 33:38

feel like my journey is just like so true to like self-actualization that like I was just taken a and taken away, but like I'd left the environment all me a bit like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. All me needs started to be met. And then I wouldn't say I'm self-actualized, but like I feel like I'm not far from the version of me that I would like to be. Mm. I feel like, I feel I will never be self-actualized. It'll always move and move and move as a grow. Um, that's just my theory of it that gave me goosebumps. Yeah. I just feel like it'll always get. Well, I'm open, so anyway, like I will always make that version of me that I want to be bigger and better. Mm-hmm. Um, but I feel like once their needs were met, it became a lot easier to work towards that.

Freya Wood: 34:36

Mm-hmm.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 34:36

Almost like, I wish there was like an opposite triangle to the hierarchy of needs. Like the downside of like, if they're not missed, this is where it ends up.

Freya Wood: 34:46

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And that again then is, is more individualized. Hmm. Compared to the models we currently use. Yeah. Now that you've told this part of your journey, how do you feel right now? Well, I have

Abbey Brocklehurst: 35:02

told this part of my journey a few times. I am used to it. Um, yeah. I feel really good about it. I just feel like it's just a part that needs to be spoken about more.

Freya Wood: 35:16

Hmm.

Abbey Brocklehurst: 35:17

Like a lot of people talk about being neurodivergent and a lot of people talk about having BPD, but not a lot of people talk about the two, especially from a therapist perspective. And I'm hoping it just dec decreases the stigma associated with all of it.

Freya Wood: 35:35

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I even as your friend, and I like to think that I know you very well, but even hearing you describe. Your journey for the second, third, fourth time? I think it, it will always be important. Yeah, I think so. Mm. So Abby, thank you for, uh, sharing that with us and, uh, thanks for listening to the Person Centered Conversations podcast. Please leave us a comment or a review of our episode on whichever platform you're watching and listening. For more person centered conversations or to submit one of your own podcast episodes, please go to our website, www person centered practice.