ifitbeyourwill Podcast
“ifitbeyourwill" Podcasts is on a mission to talk to amazing indie artists from around the world! Join us for cozy, conversational episodes where you'll hear from talented and charismatic singer-songwriters, bands from all walks of life talk about their musical process & journey. Let's celebrate being music lovers!
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ifitbeyourwill Podcast
ifitbeyourwill S05E10 • Tim Rutili of Califone
Ever wonder how the humming of air conditioners could inspire an entire album? Tim Rutili, the creative force behind Califone and former member of Red Red Meat, takes us deep into his unconventional musical world where everyday sounds become extraordinary compositions.
Rutili's musical journey reveals a fascinating evolution from his early punk roots to his current experimental approach. "In everything there's tonality," he shares, explaining how he once tuned his guitar to match the collective drone of neighbors' air conditioners while recording in Austin. This philosophy of finding music in unexpected places permeates his creative process, whether he's capturing rainfall on outdoor microphones or repurposing mechanical noise from nearby buildings.
What separates Rutili's work is his embrace of happy accidents and willingness to follow unexpected paths. He describes how Califone's songs often emerge through improvisation rather than traditional composition – band members responding to intriguing sounds, creating hours of experimental audio that later gets shaped into finished pieces. One standout track from their recent album "The Villager's Companion" began this way, incorporating environmental recordings that would never have existed through conventional songwriting methods.
The distinction between Rutili's deeply personal work with Califone and his professional film scoring provides fascinating insight into his versatility as a musician. "With scoring, it's like you're serving a story," he explains, contrasting it with Califone's music which can sometimes be so personal "it might be inaccessible to other people." His approach to performance follows a similar philosophy – treating songs as living entities rather than trying to perfectly recreate studio recordings.
Want to experience Califone's mesmerizing soundscapes in person? Catch them on the East Coast this May, or at their upcoming benefit show for California wildfire relief in Long Beach. As Rutili continues to find renewed joy in his craft, his music stands as a testament to the endless possibilities that emerge when conventional boundaries dissolve.
Back before I was a movie star, straight off of the farm, I had a picture of another man's wife Tattooed on my arm, with a pack of Camel cigarettes in the sleeve of my t-shirt. I'm headed out to Hollywood just to have my feelings heard. That town will make you crazy. Just give it a little time. You'll be walking around in circles Down at Hollywood and Vine.
Speaker 3:Here we are, another episode of the Be A World Podcast coming to you. We are wrapping the week up and I'm very thrilled to have Tim Rotilli here from Califone and well, ex-red Red Meat. Both formed in Chicago, right, tim, but now you are no longer in Chicago. You live where the sun shines all day, every day.
Speaker 4:Not really. I mean, I live in California but I live in the mountains where last week we got snowed in. Oh yeah, the sun is shining.
Speaker 3:Okay, nature's vicious little trick, right when you think, oh, the snow's all over and then it comes back. It has its year, march, march, it snows, right. Yeah, yeah, we'll have snow probably right until april. Um, here in quebec, uh, okay, we love, we love to hate snow. I'll leave it at that. Um, it's been a long winter, we'll say that as well, and we're really excited to kind of start to feel warmth of any kind. Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, so, tim, my first question I love to kind of revisit how you got to where you are today Musically with your music heart today, musically with your, with your music, and I always like to ask, like, what were some of your big points in your career that changed the trajectory of where you were going? Um, do you have some of those moments that you could share with us where it kind of something happened and experience or an encounter and it changed the direction of of your musical journey so far?
Speaker 4:um, you know, uh, with the red red meat it was probably like listening to, can, listening to, like those electric miles, davis records, right. That changed us all and made us kind of want to play like that, even though we didn't really have the chops to do that. Okay, but it made us do some things differently and not in the normal rock band way. You know, using a computer also changed what we were doing. That was around the last Red Red Meat record that we made which is called there's a Star Above the Major Tonight. That was where we used sampler and computer more. That changed everything. Yeah, there's been a few spots like that. Caliphone making room sound sort of set a template for us that we found while making that record. Right, interesting, interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had this conversation with David Lowery from Cracker and Campervon a while ago and we got into a little bit of his formula and formula in the sense where they've stumbled upon a way that he knew how he would construct songs, you know how they would start, how he would transition them. You know, and he followed that formula. He said for most of the songs that he wrote do you, do you feel a similar sense to that with the calif um, with the californ? You know, discography, that like and I I hate saying formula because it sounds like, yeah, we just filled the formula and we just made like it's not as simple as that, but that there was a structure, that that you tended to follow when you were, when you go about the writing process uh, sometimes it's I mean, I, I there's.
Speaker 4:it seems like there's a few different formulas. One is sort of what feels natural songwriting and a rhythm that feels natural and a way to approach melody that feels natural. And another way is just really going towards what does not feel natural, and that's usually a challenge, but sometimes that's how you make progress. Um, with uh, the way we make records is like going into something that really doesn't feel comfortable. Um, another way we do things is sometimes we get into a room and play and improvise and then take the pieces and slice and dice and loop and build songs that way like that happens too, that's cool, and when you say that you just start off with you know a couple of chords and then just let let inspiration take, take its course.
Speaker 4:But all of that is Nothing. Start with nothing.
Speaker 3:Okay, Like what would be an example of the nothing that you would start with.
Speaker 4:Someone's making a sound and the sound is intriguing, other people sort of jump on. You know, sometimes it's a rhythm and sometimes it's just like, maybe, a loop that I would make at home.
Speaker 3:you know, it's, it's anything right, right, and I imagine that you gather you must be a good gatherer of sounds and loops and and just storing them away because you never know, like when you might want to pull it back up to incorporate into a song it seems like there are periods of, uh, collecting and gathering things and words and sounds and pieces, and then there's, like usually a long period of, like, constructing and editing out of that right right, and I I had read a story too that you had brought your guitar outside because there was a hum or a dissonance that was out there and you tuned your guitar to that key and that kind of like inspired, like.
Speaker 3:those are the kinds of things you're talking about as another example you're talking about as.
Speaker 4:As another example, yeah, I was in austin, texas making a record with, uh, my friend, craig ross, um, and we were making a record that was turning out to be songs and uh, yeah, it was hot and whenever I went outside it was like this sound that was just a combination of all the neighbors air conditioners. So, yeah, I I heard melody and I heard melody and tone in that and tuned the guitar to it, and then we went in and just made some stuff up out of those tunings and that became a record called guitars tuned air conditioners, which that's what it is it's such a great, um great idea to have and like opening doors to unknown places really.
Speaker 4:I mean, who would ever thought to do that. In everything, in every, in everything there's tonality. I think, in everything there's tonality.
Speaker 3:I think, right, right, that's so cool and when you first started writing songs, what were your first songs that you wrote as an artist that you actually put down on tape? Was that with Red Red Meat, or did you have stuff prior to that that you had been recording?
Speaker 4:I had some bands before that that were pretty terrible and uh, yeah, it was just trial and it feels like it still is trial and error. It's like, uh, I don't know when I started liking what I was doing, um, but it might've been a couple albums into red, red meat, you know.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, I read too that you don't like listening back, Like once, once the records packaged, it's like thank you, Archive, put that in the files and like it's onto the next, like you don't spend a lot of time dwelling on past recordings and, um, listening and listening back and is that just because of the sheer amount of the production level, that the saturation that you get just through putting a record out.
Speaker 4:Um, I don't know, I think, uh, I don't know why, I just don't feel usually like listening to what I just made and uh don't feel usually like listening to what I just made and uh, sometimes you have to go back to learn a song if you're going to play it at a show. Um, and sometimes playing those old songs at shows they have their own life, which feels completely.
Speaker 3:it might not sound completely different, but to me it feels completely different than, uh, the recording, and I'd rather not imitate a recording, I'd rather the song be a living thing that we're all sort of playing, right right, like, is it hard sometimes, because of the experimentation and the playfulness when you're going about putting songs together and records together, that reproducing it is almost impossible because it's you're trying stuff that might be hard to reproduce on stage? Um, is, is that some of the issues as well? Like, because the songs will have so many different textures and layers that to recreate it there's no point. Let's just play it the way that we'll play it live. That's exactly right. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3:Interesting, interesting. What are some of those happy accidents that have happened in the studio for you with, with the experimenting that that you do, that just would never be able to be recreated but happened somehow together with people and the songs and the? You know a buzz, or I heard that you were dragging cinder blocks across floors and like, like. Where do you find these inspirations and what are some of those happy, happy accidents that happened through all of you, sometimes it's taking an unhappy accident and just digging into it and making it, making it work.
Speaker 4:Sometimes it feels like fighting with sounds. Um, but you know, there there's something on. We just put out a record called the villager's companion and there's a song on there that's called a blood red corduroy three piece suit and it's like a long one and I was at. Our bass player, brad is a great recording engineer as well. He's a great musician, he's a great recording engineer and when you go to his place it's like a party, which I'm not good at and then it's always like a jam. So he's got it mic'd up and I remember that day it was raining. He had mics outside recording rain. His neighbor's building makes a terrible sound. They put some ventilation thing outside. That is terrible. So one mic was outside catching the rain and the sound.
Speaker 4:Uh, and we had sort of workstations that we were wandering around. We recorded a couple of hours of just noise and stuff. And then he said at the piano, and then I was like, okay, did we just have fun today? Felt kind of fun, and then I ended up taking it home, editing it into the shape of that song and then bringing it back and then just building and building and building this thing.
Speaker 4:So that was how that one came about, and there's no way that anybody would have written that. You know like sat down with the intention to make that. That only came out of like this is the environment we're in. Our brains are somewhat empty right now. We're not really thinking, we're just sort of like trying to work with every situation that we have going on in this place and, uh, that's what. That's what came out. It was like, uh, yeah, I remember editing the next day and things sort of made a little bit of sense, but it's never anything that I would have naturally structured and I don't think brad would have naturally structured it that way either.
Speaker 3:Okay, interesting I love that. I'm gonna listen to that again more closely. Somebody said listen to all these songs with headphones on and then you'll hear all of those, the multiple levels, everything going on, um, which I find pretty fascinating. Um. So what is your process, though? Like what's your standard process for putting a song together? Um, and maybe I'll elaborate a bit. Does it come from those kinds of like? Just things happen and then you gather this, you know recording through a jam or through um coming together with musicians, or do you sit and write songs? Sometimes, you know, with, with your guitar or piano, um, and then bring them in, Like, what, what, what tends to be your approach when you're, when you're writing songs?
Speaker 4:well, uh, on villagers, I wrote songs and I demoed them and then rewrote them and then threw them away and wrote some more. You know, like I really worked on by myself songwriting okay and then brought them to people people had, people were able to listen to demos and learn songs, but then there were open sections in each of those songs for, uh, anything can happen. Hmm, fun.
Speaker 4:Enough room for them to For sure. Yeah Right, so that's one way, and then another way is like I don't know, let's see what happens. You know, I have this noise or I have this sound or I have this loop, or I have this like block of words, and let's see what happens between things that are sort of more immediate or composed written songs and then some things that are just uh, let's see what happens when we're together right and has that been your mindset throughout your career as a songwriter?
Speaker 4:like sometimes seeing where it goes, what happens, but also having that songwriting discipline where you're, where you're very structured and and are looking to create a song uh, probably in the beginning it was like, uh, learning how to play neil young songs on a guitar and then once you know four chords you can write your own song, um. And then punk like playing in punk bands was like, uh, we're all sort of coming up with parts together. It's more like doing math together, um, with sort of like um, too much energy that you don't know how to deal with, so you're putting it into that music, um, and then I don't know it's, it's not. And then it was like, uh, well, I just want to be in the faces, you know, I want to be in the rolling stones or the faces, and let's try to do that. And then sort of it's like imitating, at first without the skill to really sound like what you're imitating, and then you find yourself.
Speaker 3:In that, at least I, I was able to like sort of find myself and then lose myself, and then find myself and lose myself over the course of years in me, right and but are there periods, too, when you just like what happens when you hit a wall, when you're just like I don't know what to do anymore, like I, that's an idea, I've done that, I've done this. Like, like, how do you? What do you do when you hit? Hit walls in your songwriting process?
Speaker 4:stop you know like I do stop for periods of time, right? Um, yeah, a lot of things I throw, I just throw in the garbage. A lot of things are terrible from that throw in the garbage.
Speaker 3:So, um, so you got to produce a lot of stuff. You're you're producing lots of stuff.
Speaker 4:Even like you don't stop yourself a lot of stuff, and sometimes I'm doing nothing. It's just like sometimes I'm working out, like right now I'm starting a job, so it's like I'm going to be like scoring a film. So now I'm getting ready to do that, so I'm writing pieces of music for this movie. Right, I'm sure by the time I get to the end of this in a couple of months or however long it takes, I'll want to write some songs for me, but right now I'm working for somebody else. So it's not a matter of like, it's just do the job. What does this need? What's going to make this better? What's going to make this work? What's going to make this better? What's going to?
Speaker 2:make this work right. What's the difference between?
Speaker 4:years off california. I take years off writing songs. I don't sometimes I do it at all right?
Speaker 3:no, for sure there's. You've had some, some breaks between records, for sure. I mean one would have to like it, would it's? It seems like you put your heart and soul into all these records and, um, it must be exhausting at times. And then just the whole machinery of setting out a record and touring and podcasts and reviews and like videos, like it just seems like a um, a tiring process that one would put themselves through. Yeah, but what else are you going to do?
Speaker 4:Write scores. Well, when that comes, I'll do it.
Speaker 3:What's the difference, though, tim, between a song and a score? Do you approach them differently? What would be the differences in your approach to, to to those two?
Speaker 4:Well, with scoring, it's like you're serving a story and you're serving a movie, so it has nothing to do with me. It has everything to do with, um, working at the top of my creativity, ideally, and uh, and what does this need and what will help? What gets the point across, or what contrasts, or even what's going to make the people that I'm working for feel good about the film they made, or feel better about the film they made. It's like that, working on Califone stuff, especially lyrically, it's so personal that I think it might be inaccessible to other people sometimes. You know, that's like personal for me, right, great.
Speaker 3:And did that take time to be able to reveal yourself to the world that way through your music? It doesn't feel revealing.
Speaker 4:It feels just like um searching and finding. You know, sometimes it feels physical, like searching and finding my body, right now right you know like, how, like what rhythm, what rhythm moves me, what? You know what? What's a groove for me now, as an old person? You know, because it's different than what's a groove when I was a young person right, right, maybe an aging person or an old person we're aging, we're aging, maybe an aging like fine wine person.
Speaker 3:So two records you put out within since 2023, you had Villagers and then the Villagers Companion. Could you explain a little bit of the idea behind the Villagers Companion? What was that? Just the stuff that you still really liked but didn't fit in the first. Can you kind of like what? What's the difference between villagers and villagers? Companion?
Speaker 4:Uh well, the companion is most of the songs didn't work in the sequence of villagers and put them down for a year ish and didn't really listen to them and then went. You know what these should come out, and a couple of the songs are things that you know, cover songs that made me want to write songs. You know that were done back right when we were starting villagers, or even a little bit before like crazy as a loon was.
Speaker 3:Is that one of your examples?
Speaker 4:yeah, yeah, yeah. That one and uh, family swan, the mecha normal song, like both those, made me want to write some songs, even though I probably I didn't do anything. That sounds like those songs. Both of them made me want to write some songs, even though I probably I didn't do anything that sounds like those songs.
Speaker 3:Both of them made me want to write, right, yeah, well, it's, it's. I mean some really amazing songs, that that. But yeah, I often talk about the sequencing of the songs with artists and like how do you determine that? Like it's kind of like taking chapters and figuring out how to put the book together. How do you go about that process? And what made the cut for um, what made the cut for villagers, and then what didn't make the cut? And like, how did you weed through to decide that, yeah, this will be the sequence. I want to put these you know these songs here and we'll see about those down the road. Like, how did you choose? What was it?
Speaker 4:just how the flow of it was yeah, I mean, it's instinct and it's how it feels for you when you're listening to these things all together also, like I started playing the songs for friends and people that I love and trust, and just um, getting their take on what was happening really helped, like, put that sequence together amazing and what do you?
Speaker 3:what do you see? Is this package now, how do you see it like? Do you look at it as kind of two, two pieces that you know are siblings, I guess, or they're related somehow, like, how do, how do?
Speaker 4:you describe that there are two records that go together. One is the one is the mommy and one is the baby. I don't know. It feels like like villagers is is like, is the thing the companion? Is like, uh, the process interesting, and sometimes it's really interesting to hear the process and sometimes, even if you don't even want to think about the process, I think some of those songs stand up on their own and not they're outside of what the process or the story is. I, I think, uh, I mean, the reason that we put it out is because it seems to stand on its own as an album, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, totally, I just love the. It seems much silkier and and finessed and and massaged and um, smooth, um, as as a collection of songs from previous records. Anyway, um, I just love the production of it. I think it's like so well done. Um, you feel the meticulous kind of like intensity that must have happened so I can understand in a way where you're kind of like okay, I've had enough of that, I don't want to listen to that anymore. I've, I've, I've, I've deep brushed this. Um, so it, it, it. It takes some, I guess, distance to kind of, but with the distance does it add clarity to what you've made, to what you created, when you kind of look back on it?
Speaker 4:um, I don, I don't know about clarity, but it does feel like finishing a thought. Hmm, it was like finishing an era and finishing a period of time. Right, sure, yeah.
Speaker 3:And what is what is? What are the next chapters look like for California? Like I know that you're, you're doing a score and stuff and hopefully you'll be. You're going to be writing more. What score and stuff? And hopefully you're going to be writing more what? What is 2025?
Speaker 4:hold for for your music, um, that you create probably. You know we're playing a show next weekend in long beach. That's like a benefit for the uh, for california fires, the la fires. Then we're going to the east coast in may and playing some shows there, uh, and then slowly getting into probably making a record Slowly.
Speaker 3:Right. So the process is ongoing. Amazing, amazing. And do you get as much joy as you did from it, as you did when you were first beginning to, to now, like? Do you still get that same satisfaction and and sense of of accomplishment when you, when you complete something, complete a project?
Speaker 4:yeah I don't know, I feel like I enjoy the whole. I enjoy everything more now because maybe I really appreciate being able to do it. I really enjoy the people that I'm playing with and and that's amazing, you know. So it's a lot more joy now. Even if it sounds like, even if the music sounds like confusion and sorrow, it's a joy to play, you know, and it's a joy to work with the people that I work with more than ever, cause there's been times when it wasn't right, right, and there's been times when I didn't really appreciate what I was able to do.
Speaker 3:Right. Well, I will tell you, tim, that you bring lots of joy. I'm sure too Well, great. Well, I will tell you, tim, that you bring lots of joy. I'm sure too well to me, I'll guarantee you that. But putting this music out I'm sure brings lots of joy to a lot of people out there. Um, so, thank you. I want to thank you for for taking some time out of your day and sharing some of your experiences and thoughts. Um, I truly, really love this latest, the the Companion. I wish I could be in California to come and see you play, but if there's any listeners out there, you can go and see California play live. What an experience that will be. Pick up this record, encourage, support California in ways that you can. Tim, again, thanks so much. This has been a real treat. All the best with the score and all the new music to come. That's just down the road.
Speaker 4:Awesome Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thanks. Burn the sheets, bleach the books. The city attempts in the silk room. Trust it in Everything in our number of eyes. Look at heaven, thanks to Jesus. Make a wish upon a moving light Above the embers, above the glow Upon a star, a life of satellite light over the embers, over the glow upon a stain, a night of sad light in the world, innocent, I've always been A grain of sound, an ocean of static, without a mask, without a ring, a cloud of moths, a circle in heaven. Fix it on the race. The flight is the way, the carcass in your. We'll see right back, thank you, so you.
