"Faceless Men" HOTD S3 | EP6

For the 91st episode of the podcast, Minwa & Tony react to “Faceless Men” with a mix of relief and frustration as the show delivers a major death early, then keeps juggling a ton of storylines across the realm. We break down why some moments hit hard, why others feel rushed or forced, and what the episode sets up with only two chapters left in the season.

Transcript

Intro And Pacing Debate

SPEAKER_03 0:08

Welcome to the Dasting with Dragons podcast. My name is Tony. You're joined by my co-host Minwa. And before I even continue with my little intro, Minwa, I wanted to let you know that I made a little error in last episode's intro.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

I said welcome to our 89th episode. And it was actually our 90th episode last week.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Oh wow. Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

So officially welcome to the 91st episode of our podcast. So yeah, I I luckily when I was re- when I was editing, I'm a stickler. Like I want everything perfect. And I was re-listening to the intro and I go, oh my goodness. I just before I said oh my goodness, I go, wait a minute. So I went back to our like page and I go, oh my gosh, it's actually a 90 episode. Luckily, I got to edit the 89 out. So if you listen to last week's episode, you don't hear me say, what episode is it? So it's just okay. Uh for those listening for the first time, this podcast is dedicated to the world of Song of Ice and Fire, created by George R. R. Martin. And for our 91st episode, we are going to be covering the sixth episode of House of the Dragons season three titled Faceless Men. Meanwhile, for last week's episode, people were saying a lot happened, or there are other people who say that nothing happened. Where should we start? Should we start at our favorite character who finally got what he was wishing for all season long?

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah, let's um let's start there because you can't say that nothing happened at all in this episode when well, we got to big character death, right? At the very beginning, the first eight minutes of the episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

So yeah, it's crazy because I go, wow, this is already starts with a kind of a bang, and then I go, where's gonna happen next? And I have my son watches it with me. This is midway through the episode, he goes, Oh my gosh, we're gonna have another episode when nothing's happening. This is a cat like a casual fan of the show, like he doesn't know about the books or nothing. I mean, for me overall, this was another slow-moving episode besides the the beginning. And with only two episodes left, um it's similar, it has a similar feeling to now season two. So season two had some uh fast-paced episodes, and then you had the rook's rest, and then after rook's rest, pretty much nothing significantly big happened, and that's what people's the gripe comes from the fans. Like there was nothing happening, we didn't get the gullet scene uh battle till season three. I'll just say this and I'll ask you your opinion of the episode, or your overall thoughts. I think the biggest issue is for these last two episodes is like we're focusing on or it's an uneven focus on characters. Like we we don't get nothing, like we have this humongous turn of events with Reina getting Sheep Stealer, and then we don't see nothing. That's not developing, but we're getting a whole bunch of Ormin in Templeton, yeah, like a lot of scenes, which is I mean, he's a great actor, but still, it just seems like with all these storylines, is it's not evening out with so so many uh characters scattered across like the realm. Uh it seems like the writers are seeming to struggle to give give each storyline the same level of um uh urgency and attention.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

I understand that. Um I think um this episode like has I think it's about like nine or ten POVs, kinda. I think that's what that's what it is, if I'm not mistaken, with the count. So it's uh definitely a lot, and it I understand that it's I didn't feel that was too frustrating, but you know it's I understand that like that has a point that you mean because like with Aegon and with Raina as well, we barely get anything. Like we get maybe maybe maximum like a minute each in this episode. Um so I don't like because I don't know, I I guess uh by the way, before I I continue on with my rambling, I just want to say to our listeners that I'm actually kind of sick right now. So that's why you're hearing my maybe my voice sounds a bit different this episode. And also, if I can't articulate my thoughts well, excuse please excuse me for this episode. And I feel that's what's happening now.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Um yeah, I know my I want to thank you for uh yeah doing this under the weather. Because I know, I mean, it's it's hard right now. You're probably just your your your head is as foggy as the writers.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Oh my god. I hope

Cristen Cole’s Death March Ends

SPEAKER_00 4:48

not.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Uh we get to Kristen Cole. Now, Kristen Cole, the last few episodes of season two, and then all of season three, he's been pretty much on his death march, accepting the fact that he's going to he die. There's no now that he doesn't have Aemon and Vagar to protect him, they start the episode. You get this cool little scene with like the river man, you know, playing dead. And all of a sudden they start they start attacking. Uh all of a sudden you have they're surrounded by all the rivermen, all the winter wolves, and you get Kristen Cole thinking that this is his moment. He's going to die in a glorious battle with his sword in hand, which he said in the previous episode. And what do we get, Mino?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

We get an arrow to the cheek, and I believe like two to the chest, mid-speech, and it was not glorious for him, but glorious for us, because he doesn't deserve to go out like a hero. He doesn't deserve like a big honorable death. He deserves to kind of be embarrassed a little bit, and I'm glad that's what he got.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

And this is a big thing, because you know, Oscar Tully, who's what, 14, 15 years old, he looks like he's 14. And I've seen people comment on this is how Rob Stark should have looked, because Rob Stark was 15 in in the novel.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

Um But Oscar Tully's not there at all. He's he's he's not there in the in the book. And the the biggest change, Cole's death, is who will shot the arrows. So it wasn't Alice Blackwood or Black Alley, which he looks amazing. In the book, it was a Blackwood who kills Cole, but it wasn't actually uh a guy named Red Rob Rivers, who was a bastard member of the family. What my little pet peeve is with Alice saying Blackwood, Black Alley killing Cole is that 99% of the people don't know who she is. Or the viewers don't know who she is, so they're like, okay. Like we see her, I think, in the second episode singing a song, like uh like a couple lines, but she's never actually said any words on screen. Like we don't know who she is.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Yeah, she's there's more to her in the book. Um, I believe at this point, um like we we could expand on like what happened uh I believe where she's at in the book like so far, if that makes sense. Like But I think still there's a chance that we could spoil something, even though they changed a lot with her character. I think that um they changed some, like I guess a part of her her character. Um I think it's best to just say that there's more to her in the book and leave it at that because honestly it it could just spoil the future of the show, and I could see the show like going in a separate direction. So I think it's best if we I don't want to expand so much on her character, I don't want to spoil it for people.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

One of the other things that people are I guess crying about is that we don't get to hear a famous line from the book, which was said by Pat of Longleaf to Kristen. He says, I'll have no songs about how brave you died, Kingmaker. There's tens of thousands dead on your account. That's a great line. Maybe it could have been said by Roddy the Ruin, and which would have made sense because the previous episode we had Cole just say, Oh, they'll sing songs about me. About how glorious I was and how I'm like the greatest swordsman in Westeros. So I don't know why this show seems to like omit great lines. It's like, what would have it cost for him to say that line? If you're going, if you're trying to um uh Tully Oscar says the line about he's trying to build the set with bones and he doesn't have enough bones. That was said a great line. Why not just add this one? I know that Cole's death was meant to be lackluster, is meant to deny him his glorious moment to go down with the sword with Allison's hanky wrapped around the grip of the sword, which you know I thought that was for some unknown reason. I don't know. He really had that thing under anyway. Um, I'm fine with all that, but why deny us that line that that you've set up to be delivered? Like I I know okay. Okay, one last thing about this. I don't know if you have anything else, but uh in Fire and Blood, Cole had close to 4,000 soldiers. Uh him telling Pat or in the book, he tells you know Pat of Longleaf and Roddy the Ruin, many of our men will die, would made a lot of sense in the show. He had around 25 guys in the show. Why would he say many of you guys will die? And he's surrounded by thousands of men.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Because he's just lying.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

I I know, but it's like it's it seems like it was like literally 10, 12 guys with them. Anyway, I think we just move on from him. I I will say I'd like to applaud uh Fabian Frankel. Yeah, uh great actor. Your patrol Sir Kristen Cole was great, and then you started off great. Then you were denied by young Renera because he wanted to go to what was it, Pentos and pick oranges with her. Yeah, and she denied it because she's like, bruh, I'm gonna be the queen. And I just want to say, you know, when you have the overwhelming of the fandom despise you and cheer on your death, you know you did an amazing job.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

So applaud to you. I'm gonna applaud you.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Oh, if you want to see him, uh go to HBO actually and watch Task. So the series with Mark Ruffalo. It's he does a great job. He has the the short haircut and he has the Phil the Philadelphia accent. He does a really good job in it.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah, um, I something I was on my notes is that um I won't say to Kristen Cole's character, rest in peace. I'll just say Kristen Cole can rot. Um, but we'll miss Fabian so much just because um he was you know he was he was great. He gave a give performance and he was always fun to watch in the um character in the character interviews and the cast interviews as well. Yeah. Um he has great chemistry with the rest of the cast, so um he'll be missed, even though Kristen won't be and he got the death he deserved. Yeah.

Alicent And Helaena Cornered

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Well, let's move on to his uh dearly beloved Alison. Uh we start af after the butcher's ball, we get to see Allison and Helena get caught by guards. Uh they were trapped, they were trying to escape. You have Ronera really pissed because she's like now stuck between a rock and a hard place. She's trying her best not to treat them two like actual prisoners that they deserve. Like she's giving them the accommodations, like this is gonna be your room, you're gonna have servants, you're gonna have this. And now with this, uh you know, Ronera sees it as as a betrayal. Like, and then Alison has to just say she's with child because you know what are we gonna do here?

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yeah, but I kind of appreciated or was surprised by like Addison's is just so honest and so in a way so team blacks. She doesn't need to say all of that, but she's uh you know, like in a way almost warning Reneira, giving Renera like the coordinates to her son. She doesn't need to do all of that, but she is, and I'm I'm just so intrigued by this um choice in making Addisant, I guess, so transparent because you know her story is completely different in the book, and there's none of that. So I think it's intriguing actually. Um and I know that I I saw someone say, Oh, just Renera and Alison to keep having the same conversations. And I agree, it does feel a bit repetitive, but um I kind of liked Rhaenyra's attitude in this episode a lot, even though she as you said she kind of has a hard time to like to to uh keep them as a prisoner. She, as you said, you were gonna say she put her foot down a bit in this in this episode and was a bit more stern. You know, even when Adam was trying to like I guess manipulate her and she was like, And what do you think of me or something like that? She's just like, Don't threaten me out, like I'm not in the mood, and just left. So I just like this attitude of her kind of just being a bit stern uh and uh as you said, like putting her foot down. It's it's good to see, and I hope we see I guess more of that in Renera. It's nice to see her, you know, see her like that, especially because in season two decisive and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

I mean Renera puts her foot down even to the point where she says, nah, I'm gonna send you to Hair Hall.

unknown 13:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

So quick question Is Alison feeding Helena plan B?

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Maybe. Maybe. You never knew.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

She has some weird smirk on her face. Like, I I don't I don't know how to describe it or how to define her smile. Alright, let's go

Ulf And Hugh Struggle With Duty

SPEAKER_03 13:54

through a couple scenes here with these characters. Uh Ulf, Hugh, Alan, and Corless. Uh Ulf, I mean, he's I don't know. I don't know how to describe Ulf. I mean, he's I I want to say he he should be called Olf the Unworthy. I mean, it's not his fault that he was picked by Silverwing, I guess. Like he went in there and thinking and he got chosen, but I've never seen a person so not worthy of a dragon ever. And his biggest complaint is like, I can't be with my boys. I can't I can't I can't get drunk. Um but I think uh what's going to compound his frustration is the the humiliation of one you're not getting paid to do this, now you're a servant to the queen, and now you can't do anything. Uh and a person like that, he doesn't understand. He doesn't see the big picture, he doesn't see the importance of what's at stake for the realm and for team. He he could I I don't think he really cares.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Um, no, not at all. I don't he doesn't connect them, I think. He doesn't connect how his how he's now playing at this major role. And he just he can't could like fathom that he's in a way that important right now, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Yeah, he doesn't he he doesn't he's not a soldier. So when Damon smacks him up and down again, again, because he's not at his post. It's like, what are you doing here? He's like, well, I gotta, you know, I gotta do my thing here, you know. I'm uh I'm on break, so essentially.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

He doesn't, he's not a he does, he didn't grow up in that mindset of following orders. The same with Hugh. I guess Hugh is more level-headed, but also he doesn't see the big picture as well, since he his whole job was to oversee Tumbleton and he goes into goes in there, he sneaks in to see his wife. I've seen online a lot of uh pushback on Kat Hugh's wife, um not being grateful that she's her husband is there and he's a dragon rider and he's gonna come save her. And is her anger justified?

SPEAKER_00 16:05

She's completely justified. She thought her husband was dead and she was left all alone, and we know what the type of society Westeros is, and by leaving her alone, he left her very vulnerable, and obviously that meant that she, you know, was like she didn't have anyone to defend her against all these like attacks, and if you know it's known if she was with her husband, they kind of would there's there's a smaller chance that they'd I guess do something to her. Um especially because he was like this big strong Chris Hemsworth Chris Hemsworth type of guy, so he's a bit intimidating, I guess. But um it's completely justified because not only did he leave her alone, the way she sees it is that I don't need you to be a dragon rider, I just need you to be beside me and to be there for me, especially considering the fact that they lost the child, so like you know, yeah, you you left her in a ver alone at a very vulnerable time, and he has almost nothing to show for it because okay, you went and you became a dragon rider, but what did you get uh with the the fact that you got a dragon? You have no kind of like money to support her, you have no place, no no house. Like he's not it's not doing anything for her. That's how she sees it. Because she's with her family, like her, like I guess her brother or her like her brother cousin and nephew.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Yeah, he thought that she was gonna greet him with open arms. Oh my love, finally you're here. Thank you so much. Oh, it's amazing, you're a dragon rider. Isn't this wonderful?

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

Where's her castle? In her mind, like you've been having fun flying around, and I haven't to deal with all this, all this real world issues that's that's happened to me. I've had to escape King's Landing, probably had to go through a lot of stuff just to get to Tumbleton, and now you're just gonna waltz in like like okay, that I can't just go with you. Like, and where is she gonna go? The one thing I'll say about the scene even is that it felt really forced, in my opinion. Like, we need that scene to set up something, right? We need that, I won't say what it is. My favorite part of the scene is the the actress, and I'm gonna try to say her name. Okay, so maybe you can help me out. Her name is hold on, let me find it. Okay, hold on right here. It is um Elora Torchia, yeah, Elora Torchia or Torchia, I guess. Okay, we're gonna go with that. And uh, yeah, I applaud you. You did an amazing job. I turned to my scenario, wow, that's really good. Like the dialogue is, I mean, the scene is like eh, but her delivery is so good, and her emotion and her face uh really worked out. I

Vermithor & Silverwing

SPEAKER_03 18:42

want to say something really quick uh about Vermitor and Silverwing that I thought was very, very cute. We had a little scene of Vermithor flying in and then kind of like putting his head on Silverwing, like kind of like a cudhole thing. Um, just for everybody who who doesn't know about their past, their past dragon riders. So Vermithor was the dragon of King Jaharis, and Silverwing was the dragon of Queen Alasane, who was uh Jaharis' wife, and they were together for how long? I don't know, 50 years, right? 60 years.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

So these dragons have been together for so long. I mean, they've been bonding with Jaharris and Alasane for 60, 70 years. So for them to be like, hey, what's up, and giving themselves a little hug or whatever, I like seeing that. So and then this episode gave us a uh quite a bit of alore nuggets here and there.

Aegon’s Self Pity

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Let's talk about let's talk about Aegon for like two seconds because he was literally on screen for two seconds, and it was it's funny that he looked completely deflated and defeated. Like he's like he did, he's done. Like, and he's asking Tyler and Lannister, Am I a terrible man? And something like he like glitches, like you know how you get the error sign on your computer? That's what sounds like. Uh uh like that was really funny. Well, that's pretty much it. That's what I got from that scene.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Yeah, that that's pretty much it for Aegon. Um, and Thailand like presents him with the option, like, no, we're gonna go to Castard Iraq, it'll be like taken care of, you know, and at my at my house and everything. And then when he asks him, like, oh, am I actually a terrible person? And then Thailand can't really say no, then he's like, you know what? To SOS then. So I I find it a bit like, oh, I I don't know where we were where we're at with Aegon because now it feels like we're at this point where he's like, Yeah, I kind of just want to start afresh. That's what it's he's giving in this scene, even though he wasn't really giving that in the last episode. So now that he's like it just feels like you know what, Esos might be a good uh new beginning for for him. I think that's what he's he's thinking. So uh I'll we'll see where where he goes. We'll see. He must like his his arc must go on. We'll see. I hope something happens, something interesting.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

I mean, for the people that I've seen who are not book readers, the first thing is, well, obviously Sunfire is gonna figure out a way to you know get up and find Aegon. And I think he was carrying a scale of Sunfire, and it was like turning blue. You know, sunfire is sunfire is gold. And I saw some people online TikTok saying, Well, that's you know, he's healing or something like that. Let's move

Rhaena & Lady Jeyne Arryn

SPEAKER_03 21:30

on to another quick scene. Raina in the veil. Raina is in the mountain, she comes out and she sees her sister, uh Bela and her uncle, half uncle, Adam, on Seasmoke. Uh, then we fled to the scene of her in the veil inside the Erie with Lady Jane. Lady Jane is pissed. I don't know what the point of that scene was. Maybe you can help me out.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Uh, it was such a quick fast scene. I think the only like point of it, I guess, is just to show us, the viewers, that like. Jane Erin knows uh that Raina is there and is like taking her up on her offer. Because she did offer her that, right? Like in the beginning of the season, and she's like hiding her. So she's not Raina isn't just hiding in a cave without any support. She's being supported by Jane Erin. I think that's the only point of it. Like we still don't know, I guess, why Jane Erin really wants a dragon, so beyond power. There's just it's not very there's not much like substance, I guess, yet to what's going on there. So yeah, I think that's all we can say really.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Alright, let's move on to another quick scene with uh Alan and Bela. And I gotta tell you, we got like a bait and switch on who is gonna be Bayla's new paramour because last week they had us believing that it might be Adam. They had this chemistry, and and I even said, I guess, you know, he's that they'll be they'll have some good-looking kids. And then all of a sudden, we get this scene with her and Alan, and I think they've been on the scene together maybe once, and it was after the gullet, the battle of the gullet.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Yeah, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

That's pretty much it. And you think that Bela and Adam being together for so much, flying around the dragons, looking, you know, having camaraderie together, you know, talking day and night, and then she talks to Alan for two minutes and they're like having this kiss, make it make sense. Even though I will say it's not a spoiler no more. You know, she does get with Alan in the book. But it if you're making all these changes, make that change. Why I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

What do you mean make that change?

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Well, make the change of her being with Adam instead. If you're giving them this chemistry in the in the last one, but I I I have a fear about that, Tony.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

I have a fear that they're going to turn it into a silly um love triangle. Oh my god.

unknown 23:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

Oh, and then the brothers are gonna fight.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be silly, you guys. I I have a I have a prediction. That's my prediction.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Oh, okay. It's gonna be like a Turkish novella.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Yes, exactly. That's why they gave the Adam that scene before, and then Adam this scene. And oh, it's it's if this happens, it's gonna be so disappointing because we really don't need it.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Um next week we're gonna have Bela and Adam kiss, and then Alan's gonna walk in on them and go, not necessarily kiss, but there's gonna be some tension, and I am not here for that. Uh that felt completely forced. I mean, it meant I mean, we always talk about Daenerys and John being forced, right? But this is like, okay, what is going on here? Uh give them at least a few more scenes together before you do this. Uh let's move on to when I say uh the show, drop some lore nuggets here. Uh,

Aemond Meets Dragon Egg Lore

SPEAKER_03 24:56

we have Alice Rivers presenting Eamon a clutch of five dragon eggs laid by Dreamfire, um, which was maybe 70 years um before it. She said 100 years, but that doesn't make sense because she explains that Aamon's ancestor, Raina, uh, was actually anus's anus. I want to say anus, but it's how do you say that?

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Anus. Anis.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Anise. I want to say anise. I don't want to say anus. Anise is uh sorry. With Rainis, that's that's the first child he has. Um the first child he has with uh Vicenia is Magor. Raina is the sister of Jaheris, who will become king. She flies to Harrenhal after the death of her daughter, which is really, really, really bad if you look it up. The um Raina's daughter's death. Anyway, so she kind of withdrew to Harrenhal um to live her life in isolation. This is what Ryan Condo had to say about this scene with Alice. He said he seemed to hint that Cyrex's eggs would become Daenerys' eggs, uh, which would be changed from the book, but Condo later said in other interviews that it was meant to be deliberately ambiguous. This episode actually follows up with a quite strong ambiguity by introducing a different clutch of eggs that were indeed laid by Dream Fire. Thus, there's a non-zero possibility that Eamon is actually holding an egg and taking Drogon.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Yeah, I I saw a lot of people debate online and they were like, oh, this is the most talked-about topic after the episode. Which one is Daenerys' eggs and the lower, and I don't know why. It sounds so funny, but to me, as someone that's such a big Daenerys fan, I don't care.

unknown 26:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

I kind of know what sounds funny. I don't care which one her her her eggs, which ones are her her her dragon eggs. Just doesn't make it to me. I was like, I don't I don't I don't care. I don't know why. I just maybe I'm wrong for that and someone needs to like explain to me why it's important, but I just don't find it something to I guess be to get so excited about like in a bad way, like to be so to to criticize, I guess, in a bad way, to criticize the show for it, or or I don't know. I just feel like okay, if it's this, it's that. To me personally, I don't mind. Like as long as like it's not ruining, like there's no changes that's ruined the plot or whatever. I this is to me a detail that I don't I don't I don't care about so much. Like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Yeah, the one cool line that Alice has said Alice said is that you stay here and uh she'll be the lady in the water and you'll be the dragon lord by her side.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

W what's that about? I wanted to talk to you about that. I was like, I literally wrote that in my notes. I was like, I don't know what that's about. I'm gonna ask Tony.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

I think that I mean, uh obviously they're gonna, you know, get get down, and I'm assuming she'll be pregnant. Is she gonna be?

SPEAKER_00 27:57

But like Lady Lady of the Water, was it? Like what what is that?

SPEAKER_03 28:01

Well, I guess because uh um Heron Hall is sort isn't Heron Hall right next to the God's eye?

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Yeah, so does she just mean like the lady of Heron Hall?

SPEAKER_03 28:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um and what's funny is that we always think of Alice Rivers as a Melisandra type witch. And who the heck knows? She might have been friends with Raina 70 years ago, 80 years ago. Maybe she might have known her, she might have, and that's the reason why she has the eggs. We get a scene with Amon saying, I have to leave, I have to leave my dragon. And Alice says it's good that Vegar is not here, he's actually protecting you. She's actually protecting you, sorry. Like, people think they see Vagar, they see you. So it's kind of you know what I mean. Like, if you're here, Vega is or wherever she's at, um, it's better that you just stay here without her. And he wants to get on a horse and go to King's Landing. Like, bro, you're not him. You're not gonna storm into King's Landing and just kill everybody. Okay, uh, let's talk about Renera, because I think she's getting to the point where she's beyond frustrated with everything that's going on. Uh, the

Rhaenyra’s Council Meetings

SPEAKER_03 29:12

council meeting, for me, a waste of time for her. Uh, you have Torum Mandalys saying something about well, I think it was um the Frey, Lady Frey. I always forget her last first name.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Sabbatha.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

Sabbatha. I always want to say Samantha. I don't know what Mandaly said something, and then just see you see like a dish fly over his head.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

And Damon's like, Damon's all. I don't have it on me, but I'm sure you do. Is what does Damon tell him about indigestion?

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Uh yeah, uh, I just pulled up the script, and Damon tells him, I'll hear no more from those whose greatest path has been with their own indigestion.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

That's so wow, that's that's really good. Yeah, Damon uh understandably is upset. Now you have Sir Luthor, which forgive us. I I I don't think we mentioned him last week when he he was one of the the gold cloaks who who died. He's tired of just sitting around and doing nothing. She says, We'll so we'll send knives to Tumbleton. And then he gets up, he goes, Finally, good. I'll I'll get some payback. And she goes, No, no, no, no, you need to figure out this Gold Cloak situation and stuff like that. So we get to see um Barathean soldiers come in, and she wants to know where Boris is at, and he's fighting the Vulture King. At this point in time in Westeros, this was like the third iteration of a Vulture King, and it's been happening since like 37 AC. Um, it's a like mercenary group, rebels from they're from the Red Mountain, they call themselves the Vulture Kings, and it's in Dorne. Before we get to um Orman and Tumbleton, we get to see we get to see Damon in his gold cloak uniform. It's so funny because you see the back of the disguise and then just all the blonde silver hair, like, come on. And he literally finds the guy within 10 seconds.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Yeah, it's just like perfect setting.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Yeah, it's just it's funny to me. Uh that it's just it took him that it was that quick. In the beginning of the of the council meeting, you have Damon just saying, We need to do like the Conqueror. Aegon the Conqueror burned thousands on the Field of Fire. Rennero's like, the Conqueror killed enemy soldiers, not you know, innocents. And for those who want to know, the Field of Fire is the it's a cause of battle, but it's the only time in Aegon's conquest that him, Rainice, and Visinia all came down with Vermitor, not Vermithor, um, Valerion, Vagar, and Moraxis at this in one battle. And you know, Damon just wants to get out there and kill everybody. Um, he also have Damon trying to talk to the Gold Cloaks. You can see the frustration. Gold Cloaks resigned, and because they're like, you know what? We're being killed and we're not being paid, and our families are starving. We we can't do this. Um, and you know, this is the one time where you know Damon's charisma and or his leadership reaches his limits. Like early in the sea early in the series, he can inspire these guys with confidence and action, and now he's asking exhausted, unpaid men to keep risking their lives against this enemy who's like hunting them one by one. So it's a harder sell to say, hey, keep guys, let's let's keep going, guys. Come on, we can do it. It also shows us that like dragons alone can't secure a kingdom, right? Ranera and Damon need all these institutions to work, and then any soldiers who they can trust for them to govern. So, you know, this uh mass resignation is just one of the things that's making King's Landing more fragile and harder for Ranera to actually do any kind of ruling. Uh,

Petitions Turn Dark And The Throne Bites

SPEAKER_03 33:08

we get to see Ranera again on the throne here in Petitions, and we get to hear a couple um interesting things I thought it was kind of um kind of cool to hear. Um, you hear Acepta mention the motherhouse, and I think that's the first time we hear something referred to as the motherhouse. She says that the motherhouse is no longer guarded by the city watch. It it's now they're getting attacked, now they're missing one of their women. And then I think early in the scene, Masaria says that's the one. She's the thief, and blah blah blah. Take care of her. And I think she gets killed. And I think that one person is become, I don't know if she's a spy, but she's you've seen her like lurking around the Rare Keep. So at Mother House in the Faith of the Seven is like a convent in real life Christianity for like female-only uh community. It's kind of uh equivalent to real-life all-male monasteries. I thought that was kind of cool to hear something new. But anyway, something happens to Renera here, and uh you can help explain what.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Yeah, so unfortunately, um Renera gets like pricked by the Iron Throne, and you see like a drop of blood, you know, from her finger. And it's something that happens or is mentioned in the book as well. And we all know, I guess, that it's a bad omen if you're pricked by the Iron Throne, because it's like um the Iron Throne rejects you, you know, and you're not you're unfit, and you're you're not a good ruler if that happens. But I don't think that that's a good theory, even though George wrote it, and it's a widely believed like belief or thing in Westeros because Magor the Cruel sat on it. Thirsey sat on it, Joffrey sat on it, patrons get pricked. So doesn't mean that they're fit.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

You also have um Aegon and Aegon. I'm telling you, and you have you have Queen Renera who's perfectly sit on the throne, like very, very uh ladylike. Uh it's just like stupid, not a good detail.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

I'm showing you it's a pointy chair made of knives and swords and daggers.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

Which at times it's uh prick somebody. Yeah, and I I will mention a good thing you mentioned about the pointiness that there are times when you they show the Iron Throne in the show and it looks like it's plastic, it doesn't look like sharp at all.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Yeah, even Game of Thrones, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

Yeah, it doesn't it I don't feel like oh it it looks like a replica of swords, like real swords, they're just like redid the redid the seat. Uh I'll I'll say one thing about um this petitions and Renaire's response. I I know Ms. Sarah's like you need to point a master coin that way you could deflect. I just don't like that that strategy of uh just talk to the master coin. I I don't have nothing to do with that. You know what I mean? Like it just for me that's annoying, and that's just it's like a cop-out to know. Yeah, it is, and it's it's she's better than that.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Yeah, and Emma Darcy actually gave a a quote on this moment as well. She says there's obviously some significant foreshadowing in this moment, though I don't know to what extent Renera is cognizant of its significance. Viserys kept his own condition very private. I don't know how she could know that the throne was the root of his inness. I think Renira perceives it as part of kind of broader hostility. I think she experiences the throne and the crown and the council and the sort of vestiges of leadership as hostile in some way. Um I like how Emma Darcy says that um the throne was the root of his inness. Because it's almost like has a deeper meaning, you know, like uh all Viserys' problems came from the fact that he was king and how like that responsibility um or like that thing in his life had a bad impact on him, not just physically. I don't know, to me, I read that quote as also like more mentally in a way, because the same can be said for Reneer. If she wasn't um, you know, who she was, or if she was like the second born or something, then the thr the throne wouldn't play such a big uh role in her life. It's just so it feels like the the root of all that she's going through, you know, all of her the the all of the troubles that she's been through. So um yeah, um that's the Modarcia had to say about it, and I say that it's just a pointy chair made of swords.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

Well, let's move on to the big um actually we're gonna combine a couple scenes um and then get to the faceless men.

Ormund’s Trap And Daeron’s Breakdown

SPEAKER_03 37:53

And I know that if we hear faceless men, we think about Arya, we think about Bravos, and this episode being called Faceless Man was kind of a choice because what's supposed to be Faceless Men assassinating, you know, Daron and Orman and all that, and then you have Gwane sussing them out. At first, I was kind of what can you say, underwhelmed by oh, they're trying to make Orman this villain, like he's the big baddie of the the season. The more and more we see his personality come up, like we thought he was a like a sound leader, like, but we just see that he's a egotistical, maniacal, like manipulator. He wants everything his way, and the way he treats, I can't believe I'm I I I was getting upset about how he's treating Wayne. This is a guy who is a legitimate soldier, yeah, a legitimate battle. Yeah, he he's in battles, and he has the nerve to keep calling him a craven. And I'm like, what the hell have you done? I was saying that in my head, like I was wanted to get upset and shout to the TV, like, shut up. Uh, but there is a moment that he's basically putting him down, and you know what, Gwen, for her for all the faults he has, he takes it and he goes, Okay, you know, because he knows what he's dealing with, right? So he just leaves, and you know what? I gotta go, I gotta shower. I haven't slept in a real bed, I don't want to hear none of your nonsense. But then there is a moment where Gwen and Darren are talking, and I thought it was really, really a good scene because it it shows us where Darren is at, and I want us to listen to it.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Your grace. I'm sorry, I had to get through it, and this is your way. Fawning. Darren. He styled you the bloody king. You left me alone with him. You know what he is. I do what I can to keep him from you know. I had no choice. No. But neither did it grieve you to ride away. I hate what I am when I'm with him. A puppet. A fool, a child. I guess it means to put you on the throne, apparently. Only as he can sit on it himself. He would thrust me forward and devour me from within until there's nothing left. So tell him you won't do it. And who will protect me then? Will you raise an army against the savages? If you were king, you could cast it down. I will never be king. Uncle, we both know.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

I need to lie down.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

You'll stay, won't you?

SPEAKER_01 40:38

And do what? Bear witness whilst Ormond marches our house to his doom. I'm second in line. I should return to old time and prepare to pick up the pieces.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

Don't leave me again. Please.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

You're his little treasure now. You'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

When you were in King's Landing. Did you see my mother?

SPEAKER_03 41:08

Yeah, so I mean, seeing that scene, um, great acting, great performance there. Didn't that make you feel bad for this kid?

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Yeah. Darren, of course I've I've I always did feel bad for him to an extent, because he was just there with Ormond and away from his mom. Even though like she s thought it was better. I mean, clearly it wasn't.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

And I I don't know, that was a really, really hard line of the way he put it. I hate what I am when I'm with him. Yeah. The only reason why he's doing this so he said he can be king. Uh even if I were to be king, I wouldn't have any say. And the way he refers to his own high tower soldiers as savages. Like I felt for him because the way he said, Did you see my mother? And in the show, he she probably he probably hasn't seen her in since he was a baby.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

Or something. So yeah, it's that's heartbreaking. Um, I just wanted to put that because I thought that was a a great insight of who he is, and you could see that he's with all that with being raised by this maniac, he still has empathy and compassion, and he's still you know what I mean? Like when he's not with Orman, he's like level-headed. Like you could see him being a good leader.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Yeah. Um, yeah, definitely. And he's still, you know, surrounded by a different form of madness, which is just Orman's Ormond, you know, Ormond and his nature.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

Like I mentioned with Ormond, um, I just find him so hypocritical. Lashing out at Sergioyne, calling him a coward and craven, and him thinking he is such an effective leader, so smart, so uh, you know, five steps ahead of everybody, and not realizing that this was all a trap with the Barathians. And these are not Barathians, these are three guys who are team black soldiers. Um, when they went in, you're like, oh, that's Renera's guys, and they look like why would they look all dirty? Why would they smell if they're just an envoy to teach to talk to them? I like how that was a setup too, because we've known about his aversions to smell. So when they go in smelling like manure, probably, you could tell something was about to happen. And you could see Gwen's eyes, and he he he realizes that these are not Baratians, he starts killing them all. What is Lord Ormond doing with when the action is going on? He's not doing anything.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Yeah, I love that. I love that because you have Ormond being so high and mighty, um, and like looking down at um at Gwen. And then when you know it comes down to it in like the most crucial moments, he just hides and lets. Gwen did with it. He didn't even recognize, you know, he he thinks that he knows everything. He didn't even recognize that that wasn't the Baratheon person, was just overwhelmed by, of course, his senses. But um yeah, I love that. I love that. I love that he couldn't be he couldn't do anything.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

And I love how Gwen goes, This is not so-and-so Baratheon. He's a foot shorter, and also he's not very comely, meaning he's ugly.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

This dude is so ugly. How can he be a Barathean? So I thought that was that thought that was hilarious. What's even more ironic about him calling Gwynne a coward or a craven is that Orman is overwhelmed by the bloodshed, you know, even vomiting in the aftermath while he mocked him all day, pretty much the whole time he said, and he mocked Renera saying, Oh, she's a woman, she's squeamish. It's a projection, right? He he's he's a leader who mistakes um arrogance for courage. And he sees like genuine honor of Gwen as weakness.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Like he's a typical, I don't want to say it, but it's kind of like a mean girl, you know, where like they hide their insecurities, their um shortcomings, and by pretending something to be to by pretending to be something that they aren't, you know, he acts like he knows everything and but he doesn't, and he when you know when push comes to shove when it's time for him to do something, he can't handle it. It's just it's poetic justice. I love it. I love that that's how that played out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

In the aftermath, everything was done. He then he goes to Gwen and kind of in a more sincere way, oh thank you, blah blah blah blah. Like you can go to Old Town if you want, like trying to make up for all the stuff he did because now he saved them. Actually, I just remembered about Corless.

Corlys Gets Cornered At The End

SPEAKER_03 45:51

We were gonna talk about the end scene, but I completely forgot that we didn't mention we we didn't mention Alice and Corless, but we didn't talk about their little brief scene in the I think it was like the beginning of the episode.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Yeah, towards the beginning of the episode, after the small council meeting, um, or during the small council meeting, Renera tells Alan to um like talk to his dads, talk to Cordis and tell him um that they need more Valerian troops, since obviously they're short with, especially with the deaths happening in the City Watch and you know, all of them resigning, uh, or they probably knew knowing that they're gonna either about to be killed or resign, um, knowing that they're they need the defenses as well, so that's what she tells Cordis to do as such. And when Alan goes to talk to Cordis, he says, Ormond High Tower strikes insidiously at King's Landing, seeking to throw it into chaos. The city watch is buckling. I would send to drift mark to shore up their number with good Valerian men. Then Cordis says, So she asks more of me. Alan says, It is I who ask. I love that he says that because you know he's taking a stance as well here. Corda says, Do as you have said, her needs are endless. Alan responds, Have you not exhausted your anger yet? Then Cordis says, You take her side when she gets refused to stick around to your legitimacy. Then Alan perfectly says, And how many years did it take you to do the same? Clock it.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

Um, like he had a mic and he just dropped it and then left.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Yeah, mic dropped. That's because it's true.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

It's true.

SPEAKER_03 47:23

And it's you know, Corus has been kind of uh whining the whole season. Like he he was great at the gulla, you know, his troops did great, but then after that, it's kind of like all of a sudden you're asking to legitimize these guys, which you didn't legitimize for 25 plus years, and now you're getting upset. You're you're you know, you're turning your anger that's should be directed towards yourself, towards Ranera. And then he finally like clocks, you know, he snaps out of it at the end of the episode. Oh no, we have to go back and take Queen's Landing. I said Queen's Landing, sorry, King's Landing. Um, and then all of a sudden you see John Roxton in the back. Um I think they put a knife in his throat, and that was the end of the episode. Maybe this was in the recording, but it it kind of made no sense of John Roxton traveling all the way to Corliss's uh location in such a little bit of time, so he has that fast travel. Um, let me just say something about John Roxton. Coolest and coldest names for his Valerian sword, which is Orphan Maker.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

Oh my god, that's brutal.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

Yes, that's just insane. But that's the end of the episode. Um, we'll just say that is a pretty big change in the book of Corlos being captured and taken to Tumbleton. And no spoilers here for what we think might happen. We don't know it's gonna

Ratings and outro

SPEAKER_03 48:47

happen. Like I said, there's two episodes left, and from what I'm hearing, there's leaks going around that this is gonna be a big episode, episode seven, which it's understandable. It's a penultimate episode, so something big's gonna have to happen. Um, the Battle of Templeton, is it gonna be the the beginning of it? Something, you know, somebody is gonna have to die. This usually happens in penultimates, or something that's seismic shock that's gonna turn around or or change the the course of the war. All right, meanwhile, uh, what is your rating for faceless men?

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Um, keeping in mind I haven't been keeping track of my own ratings. I would say 8.1 or two.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

Okay. Um I think last week you said you know, I'm gonna listen to every episode or our ratings for every episode, and then next episode I'll have all of them ready to go. Uh I'm gonna give this a 7.5. I think the rating right now on IMDB is a 7.8. Um, I think the last two episodes, um the last three episodes have been in the sevens. Episode four, five, and six. Four was seven point five, and last week and this week have been seven point eight holding strong. Uh so we'll see. I mean, the the season started pretty strong with a 9.3 and then a 9.2 and then a 8.5, which is really high, and now it's kind of leveled out. And you know, a 7.8 is still a really good score when it comes to IMDB, but we're so used to like I remember back in the day with Game of Thrones, like if Game of Thrones episode had anything below eight, you're like, what's going on? Is classes below eight? Um, so it rarely happened in Game of Thrones. I think there was like two before season eight, mind you. Um, I think the finale of season of Game of Thrones has a 4.0, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:55

Um, I'm going on this tangent about IMDb. Game of Thrones. Uh, the overall average for Game of Thrones, even with those horrible scores for season eight, is still a 9.2 out of 10. That just tells you how strong this the show was before that last season. But anyway.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

And I think, yeah, I think that's it from us for this episode of House of the Dragon. Again, apologies that I have been like a bit, I feel like I've been a bit out of it, and Tony carried this episode, so thank you, Tony. Um hopefully I'll recover by next week.

SPEAKER_03 51:28

I think we should all like Chris and Cole, we're gonna give you another applause uh for uh battling through this episode. And yeah, you could tell that you did, I mean, you did your best here. I can see I can see you shouting. I mean, you're you're recovering there, and it's hopefully by well, we'll we'll record in the next few days. Um you'll be better. But yeah, thank you for being uh what we call a trooper.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Thank you. Thank you so much, and thank you guys for the singing of Dancing with Dragons. We'll be covering uh episode seven next week. Um, hope you guys tune in. And if you haven't already, be sure to follow us on Instagram at dancing with underscore dragons, and of course, be sure to add and download our episodes on your preferred listening platforms. We'd really appreciate it. And if you have the time, give us a rating review as well if you get the chance. Thank you guys so much. See you real soon.