EP 015 "Caught in the Crossfire: A Security Professional's Personal Account of Surviving Putin's Invasion in Ukraine" by Andrii Lukashenko

Andrii Lukashenko BIO

Andrii Lukashenko is a security and risk management professional with over a decade of experience in managing security and crisis situations. He has worked in various leadership roles for international organizations, private companies, and academic institutions.

In November 2022, Lukashenko founded Smart Risk Solutions, Ukraine, a security consulting firm that specializes in travel risk management, crisis management, and security consulting. With his team of experienced consultants, analysts, and international partners, he provides support to clients facing risks that could affect their business.

Prior to founding Smart Risk Solutions Ukraine, Lukashenko worked as a National Security Officer for the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine from September 2018 to October 2022. In this role, he was responsible for ensuring the safety and security of mission members and visitors, monitoring the security situation in the area of responsibility, and proposing appropriate mitigating measures. He also developed and maintained security-related documents, including the Mission Security Plan and Mission Evacuation Plan, and coordinated with national and international security providers to ensure maximum security coordination and information sharing.

From 2014 to 2018, Lukashenko served as the Acting Supervisor of Duty Room - National Executive Officer for the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine. In this role, he liaised between various departments within the mission, including procurement, asset management, transport, and finance, and maintained effective staff/management relations. He also served as a focal point with various companies and government agencies, including the Ukrainian helicopters and the Security service of the Kyivstar.

Prior to his work with the OSCE, Lukashenko worked as the Director of the International Institute of Forensic Expertise in Kyiv, where he organized and directed the work of the institute. He also served as the Chief Expert of the Legal Directorate at Raiffeisen Bank AVAL in Kyiv, where he provided legal support on problematic debtors in all regions of Ukraine, prepared documents for transmission to the court, and conducted negotiations with creditors to improve the situation on problem loans.

Andrii Lukashenko has extensive experience in crisis management, security consulting, risk assessment, and emergency preparedness. He is skilled in building effective relationships with national and international security providers and has a strong track record of identifying potential security threats and proposing effective risk management strategies. He has also conducted security training courses and provided security briefings and advisories to staff and management.

Overall, Andrii Lukashenko is a highly skilled security and risk management professional with a proven track record of providing effective security solutions in challenging and complex environments. His leadership, communication, and analytical skills have enabled him to build effective relationships with clients, staff, and security providers, and to provide valuable support in times of crisis.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrii-lukashenko-8b1b455b/

andrii.lukashenko@gmail.com

Security Circle ⭕️ is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers

Transcript

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Andre Lukashenko discusses real and personal experiences in the Ukraine in this podcast episode. Which some listeners may find distressing.

Yoyo: 0:25

hi, this is Yolanda. Welcome. Welcome to the Security Circle podcast. If poe is the International Foundation for Protection Officers, and we are dedicated to providing meaningful education and certification for all levels of security personnel and make a positive difference to our members' mental health and well. Andre is a security professional based in Kiev. He's in Kiev right now in the Ukraine. And he has, worked with the organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, known as the O S C E. He's also held positions with the US Embassy in Ukraine, and the former Ministry of Defense in the Ukraine. We are incredibly, lucky to get this time with you cuz I know that you are very, very busy. so thank you so much Andre. Whilst we've got this opportunity, to learn from you. about your expertise and firsthand experience, of the atrocities, the horrible situation you've been in there in the Ukraine. Can you help us to understand, take us back to before Putin invaded and tell us how things were building up to this. Let's, um, thank you again for the invitation for this interview. Uh, it's hard to explain, but you see Ukraine already nine years at war. Even it's not declared as a war, as a military conflict. But, back in 2014, we start the war with, uh, Russian, basically Russian in the Ukrainian territory of Donbas. It's a lugansk region. And I know it from, not from the books because I am working as a security professional as and, uh, security officer for the all those regions and established support and security support to our mission member of the special monitoring mission of IC in Ukraine. So, and of course it's terrible situation because everything start as a like small revolutions, and after that, everybody. It's happening. And right now, two days ago it was the anniversary of the Crimea, occupation. And this, again, it's very painful for me because my relative is still being Crimea and I actually busy part of, this is, scheme was happened there because I, I visit my. My wife and my son in Crimea in the train, and this is the green soldiers and the green, uh, peoples, uh, um, try to arrest me. But because I have this Ukrainian passport and I'm not, like, I'm look like a. Not military, but uh, drafted personnel. So they try to arrest me, but, but as soon as they see the stamp, like I've been married in the Crimea, they thought I was local there. So that's why, how escapes arrested in the Crimea and I evacuate my family from Crimea and right now they with me and ki So it starts there and after that, um, uh, slowly progressions, it's, uh, occupation of the Lugansk. I know it. Exactly, because I've been as a, um, executive protector of the ambassador of the ambassador, uh, chief of the mission of oac. And we flew in the Donez Airport and we probably last people who flew there. And we visited always the local governor, uh, mayor of the city. And when we visited the Don, uh, city administrations first floor, already been occupied by those rebel. And second floor be under control of the, and you see, this is for the security people understand like if first floor already occupied how you get on the second floor, so it mean you have permission to go on the second floor. And we have a meeting with the mayor of the city and he asked for the, our support and uh, our ambassador took his words and bring back to the Ukrainian parliament and, uh, make a speech there about the situation in Danel. Can lu. And two weeks later it start to be open conflict. So they start to basically occupy the pro city and, uh, destroyed the airport. And it was battle in the airport as you, you were, it's really, and it really painful for me because, uh, I've been in Z as a mission member and like kind of untouchable for, for those robots. But in the Danez airport it was my classmate from my military academies and we still be in contact and this is really hard to I in the wrong side of the house and they tried to protect Ukrainians there, so it was really painful and. Give us the understanding of what's going on. So how the, Russian, government, try to occupy. Uh, but it's like crawl, crawling, occupation of the territory. So they just under the, idea of Russian mirror of, you understand, like Russian civilization come to, and there's. Territories and try to be as a part of the Russia. we understand this, they just basically simply occupied territory. And in the beginning, right now they call them armed forces, but in the beginning it's just gangs. And you couldn't believe how many times I saw the hostage situation by the form because our monitors, uh, driving the armor vehicles and those rebel see the, as soon they see, uh, as soon they see the armor vehicles, they. You know, catch it and they just simply grab the people, throw out of the car. And only because I spoke both Russian and Ukrainian, I convinced them to just. For some reasons to, uh, leave the car without personnel. So it, it, it also true and we understand services, they just gangs and they just try to looking for the personal benefits and personal, you know, some outcomes. Uh, so that's why in the beginning it was very hard to understand, like, this is a really revolution. So it's invasion, but people who really understand what's going on immediately realize that it's like Russian invasion under the cover of. Some Revolutional slogans or something like that. So, and for the last, uh, eight years, I've been both sides of the conflict all the times. Um, usually like Vico two I for months, I've been in the non ongoing control territory to support there and come back here. And deliver goods, deliver the payment for our personnel there and do a lot of the security job and escort the v a p visits and, you know, and special for the mariupol because, uh, people who understand once we have a visit of the two, Prime ministers or Minister of Foreign Affairs to the Mari and our convoy was about the 26 cars. And you could imagine 26 arm we call cars in, in the small city like Mariupol. It was really one of the tasks for the security officers. Plus we provide the daily support to the mission members about the safety route and uh, you know, always. Dynamic security risk assessment and regular security risk assessment and all this stuff. So we understand it's not going to finished soon or it's nothing, uh, gives ideas will be more advanced from the LPR and DPR R because they didn't have enough forces to attack Ukrainians so they can buzz them with the sniper work. Uh, they buzz them with the long range artillery, but they didn't have enough force to. To advance in Ukrainian territory further what they occupied from the beginning and for me, uh, 24th of February, of course, terrible day because we have always the signals and, uh, always is, uh, marks. It's something, uh, going to happen. And, uh, even the visit of the chief of, uh, main Intelligence director of United States to Ukraine is also a signal for. Um, something really big going on and we all, uh, Overwatch really close of the situation of the military training in Be Russia and both the Russian troop did there and how many, uh, military equipment they brought in territory of be Russia and have it situated. And for us it was also really a lot of information, uh, for, for thinking how it'll be development plus always. Situation with the insurance company, as soon as all this is a big insurance company, start to cancel the insurance for the flight zone in, in Ukraine. It was a really like big letters for us. So something going to happen immediately. We, and we pre uh, assuming it's happened right after the Olympic games and it's, it's happened because Olympics stops 22nd of February or resort. Night we have started invasion basically. So a lot of science and unfortunately Ukrainian government not listen the, uh, security people and they hope is not happen. And I'm sorry for my French, but Putin has enough boss to just, you know, make a direct invasion to, to Ukraine. But it's happened. What's. I mean, the world has been watching. Uh, certainly I speak for those nations that are very much in allyship to what's going on, and we can see there is a, a world stage of chess maneuvers going on. One thing that struck me was on the anniversary reading posts from Ukrainians on social media saying this time a year ago. I needed to pop out to the shop for some cat food. Or this time a year ago I started joining, uh, the gym and now I can't go to the gym anymore. And this time a year ago. Just normal things, Andre, just normal things that really struck home because I think in from the United Kingdom's perspective, we don't imagine bombs to land on our door. Take us through, how you as a security professional, a very special one, I would say, supported your family when you realized it was time to move from your location for safety. Uh, yeah. It's, I tell you, and I get like gust skin right now because it's all the call. Um, yes, I have a military background. I retired major and I, for the last eight years I worked as a security officer for the recent mission. but you see, I consider like home all this safe, safe place and everything. Okay here, here's your wife, your kids, your pets, and you know everything good here. But war somewhere in Donette and Lucan. You just as a trip of duty, you take your shift and after that you come back for normal life. And it's what happened like the morning of the 24th, I received the call about the four o'clock in the morning from the, uh, security of the barista report because I did the private for them about the situation. And they tell, like that time it's not really clear, is it start war or something happened. And they, you know, uh, initiate the security protocols, so they protect, um, a really important, uh, infrastructure object as, as a big international airport. And it was really on time. And, um, I come drive to the, to work and we start to prepare the vocation of the mission. But about like 10 30, my wife called, And by the way, my wife also is the Navy officer retired, but, and she called me and said like, uh, Andre Russian helicopters over our house had taken the gas airport and I couldn't believe it in that. And jump in the car, fly home and. I live on the eighth floor and I stand, I just couldn't believe it because I saw how the Russian helicopters attacking the airport and they do all this as the combat stuff. And you see, as a military person, you realize this is a, it's not training and this is a, not a provocation or something. It's a open invasion. And this is a war. And they do the really live shooting with the, not the machine guns. They do the artillery or this. Helicopters. And it was terrible. And I, we immediately realized it happened. And Ukrainian and because it's European, Ukrainian government, uh, destroys the bridges all around the city. Cause, uh, from European to, to ki it's about the nine kilometers trade shot. So they blow off all the bridges and we basically become it like in the, surrounded in, in the city. So, and um, it's. Life experience because I train the people for that, and I try to be prepared by myself. But you couldn't be prepared for something like that because immediately all this, the food become a really important, or water become important, and electricity and the heat. And because it's a February, you know, in Ukraine, February, it's a quite, um, tough months for, for, for, for the heating system and et cetera. So, And, uh, all my neighbors, I live in the big, uh, house, uh, with all the time in, in the basement and the people, you know, being scared, but we saw kids, it's the kids and they always need something sweet. That's why the bread and the, uh, candies and all chocolate always is a sweet stuff gone immediately. So we, we start to struggling for the second day of the invasion because all the markets is closing. We don't have any food supply. So we have some, you know, Meat storage and some pickles and something, but bread and Swiss immediately. And so that's why I have the bread machine. So we will gather in some radiance together and we start to produce every 40 minutes loaf of bread for our neighbors. And it's about the 60 of them together in the shelter. So we have this some, some went plus, We, um, because kids sitting there and they start to get boring and stuff and so I trained them how to provide the first aid kit and even the neighbor, my neighbors also interested and show them how to operate with the weapons and et cetera. But it was really tough and we waiting for the, all the news and this is the informational campaign starts and the office is. Wrong information, right information, and it was, was good, was bad, but you see it's a sitting in the surrounded city. It's not the fun and you realize. You have no way to escape or do something. And it was, um, you know, psychologically very tough. And plus, uh, you see, uh, lucky us, I don't know why, but all the time we have a really strong internet and they have electricity. That's why it's really surprisable for us. And I'm, uh, believe me or not, I contact the, all my, uh, friends and my subordination clients and stuff, and during the time I have about, Successful location from Ukraine. So organizing the city in the shelter. Organize the location of the personnel from, from, from the Ukrainian, and supports the private clients and private interpreters also. Um, we have all times of contact with our friends. We try to, you know, check in each other every morning and every evening. So everybody just, Because it's artillery, because it was heavy ary, shellings, and et cetera. So we couldn't, uh, do anything just sitting in the shelter and do nothing. And, and it's really, again, psychologically really tough. And but most scary part, it was when the Russians started to drop in the bump. In European, and you can see from those all the pictures, it's one of the block of European was terribly, completely destroyed because, uh, they didn't help Ukrainians not provide any air defense or something. So they just, aircraft just simply come and drop the bombs and make another shock and drop the bombs. And, and this is, and you listen to and you just like terribly, um, care it like, because you thinking it's your, your house probably will. That's why, um, it was really, uh, hard feelings about that. And, and you see all the, uh, you know, Your family with you and all your neighbors with you, and you just, you, you just doesn't know what to expect and nobody will tell you what's happened the next. And, and you know, always as a food, uh, store, um, shortage, start to know, make an influence because people, they have like some food, but it's not a lot of that. And start to become an issue for the small kids for. Really, uh, infant because it's of the no milk, no nothing. So all the porches, boiled on the just water and some water shortage because it was a lot of wells. And we just pick up the water from the really natural, well, so we have water, but it's not you. We need to be boiled and for, for the cooking and etc. So it was really heavy, heavy, heavy time. And you see. You always is a shootings and stuff, and, and, and. And all this is during the night. All this is a drone attacks because Ukrainian, uh, start to using those, uh, bio against, uh, Russian in, in Bucha. And I, I saw how, how the bike attacks flow flew and how they do the bombing from my balcony because all the nights I stand in the balcony as a night wish to, to just inform my neighbors to if something coming or something going on. So that's why, you know, it's really. Really tough period for us and say, you, God, we have a chance to escape on the 6th of March to my, to my relatives in Minski. So we stay there for another probably couple weeks and after that, Pull back in the, uh, but, uh, as soon ing been liberated, cause 13 only been partially occupied and my house just get hit a little bit in the roof and, and the, some windows by the sharp nose. But, uh, basically not heavy, uh, damages there. So as soon the ing been, been liberated on the second day, I already come back home. And even without electricity and water. But it's home. It's home. And uh, you start working with always is a media comp, uh, company, which brings a journalist. So I work as a security advisor. I brought them always as a butcher. And unfortunately, I I, I've been in, this is a discovery of the mass grave and always is a really terrible stuff. What Russian did in our territory and support to the international journalists to discover or listen and put everything on the, on the internet to show. Paul world, what, what's happening and what uh, like those not any rules of the war they're being used to. It's just basically terrible. I dunno, Heide or something. I not even define the word to, to, to, to, to describe what they did for the just normal population and how they killed the Simply Civilians, not military. They killed the in butcher and they just killed the civilians for the being on the street. And the terrible story about all those, um, boys and girls who's been great and they, you know, and, and burn down. And I personally saw that this is, Five young girls being raped and they tried to burn, burn them down, but something didn't work out. So it's like only health of their body being burnt and another health still be like, and believe. It's not the, it's not coming to me as a nightmare, but I believe we say maybe it'll be another story. But, uh, they did a lot of terrible stuff and a lot of the, uh, uh, adult guys been, you know, cute with tied up the hands and their. So, and mass grace, which been discovered in the churches and stuff. So it was really terrible stuff what the journalists discovered. So it's not the military discovered, so military already pulls them down, puts them out to the che region and to the border of Ukraine, but always is a city like, but Maariv, um, been, you know, discovered and, and still be, you know, some, some places been discovered the more mines and stuff even. You describing really the contravention of the Geneva, uh, agreement, aren't you in that civilians have been targeted instead of, you know, national infrastructure in the military. And, and, and we can see that from the footage, uh, on the news. And we've had many of our journalists go there and report directly, uh, throughout this horrible situation. You told me though, Andre, when we spoke recently, that you feel that your 10 year old son has had his childhood stolen from him. It's gotta be hard. I mean, you've got skills and knowledge, but the, the children don't. How are they grasping what's happening in their lives? But you see, right now, it's a scary because right now our, my, my 11 years old son, he recognized the artillery. He can say like, this is a mortar, or this is a, like, heavy artillery, or this is a tanks and this is a white shooting. You know, for, I, I'm, I'm joined the military when I'm 15 years old, and this is another stuff when you join in the academy and stuff. But he's only 11 and he knows everything. And you know, he already been scared for the shooting because when we escape from European, we draw under the shelling of the tanks. And he, I told them like I put the armored, uh, personal equipment PPE on them and I drove with the low windows for both sides and just his hurt because I explained everything and what they need to do if it's coming closer to us. And so this is not something what he, young kids should be experienced. And, uh, of course it's a childhood because right now they cannot go to play anywhere beside our, uh, yard because it's, uh, unex explosion material there. It's still mines. Even the Ukrainian, The minors do the great job to find them, but it's a limit. It's, uh, thousand of them still in right now. It's a, a spring season coming, but we are not even the planning to go to the wood for any, you know, recreation or for the fund because it's a, it's been position of the Russians there and Ukrainians and plus it's a, have shells and you couldn't believe it. In some territories it's wood just cut down like a saw by the artillery. So it's just basically not wood, it's just. Territory with some, you know, roots, something like that. It's really, and you've got a lot ofo there, so you basically cannot send, let the kids go there and to have fun or just, you know, recreational adventures. And plus, uh, you know, kids, um, right now all the, you know, scared because all the parents try to control them. Like this is, uh, every 15 minutes they need to call and they, because they're not with, you know, even gives them there independence because we'll all try to know what's going on. And it's another situation. It's really hard for them because right now it's all distance learning and they have eight hours sitting in front of the computers. And believe me, it's not good for. Not for theirs, uh, vision, not for theirs, like physical condition and stuff, because eight hours they sit in front of the computer for the, for the classes, and of course a level of education. Drop it because they received the information in the class and interact with your pupils and or just sitting in front of the computer. Even the teachers good or, and another level of the education dropped because not a lot of the old school teacher. Catch up with the teams and this is a distance learning and a lot of young teachers only catch and level of their performance. I'm not always scared to put in this way, I'm not, not criticized, but you know, I think it's not really good for their future education. Yeah, and I think I'm so glad that they are receiving some education though, because that was going to be my question, whether the children's education is in some way, uh, resumed, but. From your experience and your amazing background and knowledge, what does Putin want with the Ukraine? Help us to understand what his intentions are. This can't just be about hegemony and expanding his geography. It's gotta be more than that. Ukraine's got a lot of things to offer, hasn't it? Yes. So Ukrainian, a lot of, and this is including the, again, question about the rejoin, the Soviet Union. It's one portion. Another question on those territory, which, uh, they occupied already done national gas, a lot of the coil, a lot of the gas and natural gas and special in the shore of the Crimea. It's a huge, uh, uh, place with the oil and natural gas and believe it's, it's also economical. Beside all this is a political, et cetera, et cetera stuff and language. It's a lot of economical interest. Plus you see, Um, unfortunately even the Ukraine level of, um, life may be not highest, but all those soldier soldiers, Russians, so-called soldiers, come here, they stolen our toilets and, uh, you know, bring always the simply home appliances because in Russia they don't have it and they don't know how to use it. And you'll be amazed, like they surprised in our villages to have asph. And they like how in, in the, in the village you have a natural guest and asshole. Because in Russian villages, even the biggest country in the world is a natural, have a natural guest. Nobody puts the pipe there. Nobody puts the asshole. But in Ukraine, all those, it's a, it's, you can listen in the old ladies and they say like they come here and they surprise like how in. In our houses, we have a warm toilets, you know, and it's not outside box, it's just inside the houses and it's normal, normal stuff. And, and you have like microwaves and the flat TVs and for them it was amazing. And uh, you saw how how many stuff they sell, they send in through the, this is a post services in be Russia because it's a fully packed with the Ukrainian stuff. All the, from. Because Ukrainians, maybe not rich people, but you know, they, they know how to, you know, maintain the cells. They know using a lot of the equipment, appliances and the tv. And for us it's normal. When you at home, you have a washing machine, you have a microwave, you have always a normal stuff for the cooking because you see how our love to cook, not cause we push them because they know how to do it and do it really good. And for them it's like normal to. And for them they just come in and stone everything. And it was for us, like, no war. It's a war. You, we understand it's it's rule of the war, et cetera. But when they just come in and, uh, cause it's a, like a gangs and again it is a uniform. So it was hard and um, I dunno, I had no idea that the standard of living within the Russian communities was so much lower. In fact, that will probably be quite a new thought for a lot of people here listening. I don't want to compare, but see, it is like, it's, uh, strange because in Ukraine, our national traditions, like we respect our. Our parents, you know, we like junior kids and their family, uh, always, stay with the, parents or take care about the parents because they try to be as good as they can as the kids and as the take care about the parents and also, About the alcohol because you see all this, the situation we know, even my experience from this, the last eight years, like, uh, they always use, uh, an narcotics and alcohol in the L P R D P R and the, the same did in Ukraine, but they surprise in Ukraine we don't. No, we have a vodka, but we don't use it much. We use a normal alcohol, like expensive, uh, cognacs, wines and variety of wines. Variety of stuff. So, but we are not drinking daily and for like, in good case scenarios for the, like, some cases for some, you know, celebrations, anniversary, whatever. But for, for, for our tradition, we don't drink like every. Glass of what? Consumption. But they come and they surprise how big collection of the alcohol in normal family has. So they just have it, but they not use it. And for them it's uh, been really point of coming and to get the alcohol, get the narcotic, and, you know, to bring everything back to home if they can. I also don't know. How they did in Russian. But what I saw in Crimea, it was terrible because, um, it's my personal experience. I, I visit my in-laws in the Crimea and they, uh, once I went. My wife need to, uh, painkiller for the headache. And uh, that evening I went to this, overnight pharmacy and, you know, it was like normal going to the pick up the pills system. But as soon I enter it, I just feel uncomfortable. You know, when its some in the back pain just, and just on round and see like who's in. Also inside is the pharmacy and I was like, crashed when I realized two people in front of me and two people behind me. It's a, you know, guys. With, uh, I dunno how to say the low category of the life. And they have a like, um, bottle of beer and they have like, uh, coex and they come into the, you know, to to the windows to get their order and they buy, and this is a nic, it's a alcohol with the herbs. It's called the nic. So they basically. Alcohol mixed with a beer and drinking. So it's like four of them in one room and only me to buy in the, it was like so, and I was surprised cause you see it's a lot of the good alcohol and special in it. Place where you always can find the good wine, red, white, whatever, dry, semi dry, sweet, and people just come visit the tradition to pit alcohol, bik. It's just terrible. I dunno. For me it was not acceptable. Put in this way. No. No, of course not. Because Ukraine was formally part of the Soviet Union. It feels like it's a brother on brother war and it doesn't feel right. Do you know what I mean? Because the family roots don't, they go back quite deep over a long period of time. Is that correct? No, we not, brother. Not longer, no. As soon the Ukrainian get independence and we feel like this is a not brotherhood and this is just try to artificially to put together and announce with, with a brother, but how you can kill the brothers. How we can rape their family. And so this is, this is a right now, um, you. Back in 19 19 9, I was studied in United States in the Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri Military Police Officer basic course. And my first introduction with My American, because I only won Ukrainian in the US Platoon, and I did the introductions of the, my country, my service, everything. And it was interesting because one of the lieutenant US Lieutenant come to me at the time, I was almost captain. I studied with the lieutenants and Zika said, oh, I understand like Ukraine nearby the Germany, so how, how is, I said, no, it's not the Germany, this is the Ukraine. And we are not Soviet Union. We are not Russians. We are Ukrainians. We speak different language, we have different history and we have our capital. We have our land and our language and autumn and everything. And we absolutely different. And this is a show us again, like, uh, you see. Mm. Right now for the Ukrainian soldiers, it's most important to, they fight not for the Russian. They fight to protect their family. And this is the most important for our, my, my colleagues, for my friends, and who right now in the front line, they see they not become a crazy, but as soon even, they, even the wounded, as soon they hit the hospital, they escaped from the hospital to the front line because, They come to their brothers who, who fight in the, you know, evils and put, they call the ORs, evils, whatever. And this is a no rule of war. And plus right now it's terrible because they use this as a Wagner groups and stuff, and they use this, the prisoners who has a tuberculosis, uh, syphilis, or this is AIDS and stuff, and they send him in front line. And if you understand, like in the front line, it's a mix of the blood and blood all, all, all around you. And you know, if you have a, always a disease. Contaminating the blood. You basically, one person can, you know, not kill, but in infect hundreds at once. Yeah. And you see, and they consider them a soldier. It's, it's not the soldier, it's just something. So that's why Ukrainians fighting for, to protect their families and you know, for, for them they sacrifice a lot of lives. And I don't know. Casualties. It's not announced right now, but it's a lot of casualties from Ukrainian side as well, because they announced like hundred 60,000 from Russian side. But for us it's also heavy casualties and you know, but you see even the, when people received the theirs, uh, killed soldiers in the. There's hometown or somewhere they, uh, make a, a corridor and they stand on their SNE to receive those soldiers and they like heroes. And, uh, even the not receive the official award as the hero, but they were heroes because they protect their motherland. And this is not boys, but girls as well. A lot of the girls believe you couldn't believe how beautiful our girls, they, they young, they like 2022 and they sacrifice their life without any, Yeah, it's, it's amazing and nobody, they could, you know, they try to protect the young people, but people use young and they want to good future and understand if the Ukraine lost, it's no life for us at all. So it, it worries I think everybody that Crimea still is under the control of Russia and that Russia's chipping away bit by bit at the geographical area. I kind of can't help but think, I wish the Ukraine had been able to keep hold of Crimea you know, to not give Putin that stronghold. No, but again, it's a geopolitics and the strategical war and the time. Ukraine physically didn't have enough power to keep the crime, and unfortunately they pull out from the Crimea. Even they have like Ukrainian arm forces have some resistance there and have a casualties, but they didn't have another chan chance to, uh, stand against the Russian forces there. And they sneak in everywhere and they control the obviously Ukrainian, line of support and. Roots and they have their agent inside the military and the law enforcement and they, how they easily give up and take the control in the full crime. So it was, uh, historically and. But it's not going to become back because we see Ukrainian prepar a lot of stuff. And for example, yesterday it was a big boom in the Jamco. It's one of the big, hub in the crime near the, uh, MPO capital of the Crimee. And it was the explosion of the, this is a big missile, was the shooting to Ukraine. So they transport by the train and Ukrainian somehow managed to call. So what's next for you? I mean, what are you doing at the moment? Uh, cuz you are still working, aren't you, and still doing your job. What sort of things are you being asked to do? my contract, the Special monitor mission ended in the 31st of October. So second November, uh, with my, uh, German colleagues, we opened. Uh, security company called the Smart Risk Solutions and, provides, uh, security support in territory of Ukraine. We establish, um, a lot of, uh, communication and support to the all. This is the western media, so we provide them with the security advisors. Mostly Ukrainian local special ex, special forces guys who speak English, who are really good and knows the territory and knows what they do. And we provide the armored vehicle support we already established 24 7 uh, hotline. So any foreign person can call and I will, we will provide them with the security and medical support and try to, cover the, every single possible to support people in Ukraine. We conduct a lot of the heat trainings. It's a hostile environment awareness training. So we will provide the training for all our clients and all around Ukraine. So I, two days ago, I come back from Zvi. Next week, I'm going to conduct it in Nepro. And we have a plan for the, again, to come back to, uh, on the beginning of the, April. So we have a lot of trainings and we provide the, uh, security escort for the VAs, because believe me or not, a lot of the VA p visitors in Ukraine right now and the state Security don't have. Power to cover all of them. So we got the private client who interested to receive the really professional security support in Ukraine, informational, physical, uh, analytical as well. So we conduct a lot of the security risk assessment plus, um, A lot of investors look into the join Ukraine for a variety of projects, for the, infrastructure rebuild, for, for the industries rebuild, et cetera. So we give them a consultation and it provides a 24 7 service. and, and for those people who want to follow, uh, Andre Shanko on LinkedIn, cuz you can see the heat training that you're giving, we'll make sure that we provide your LinkedIn, with your bio Andre so people can follow up and even make contact with you if necessary. the other thing I was gonna ask you is Sure. You must have had some periods over the last year or so where you haven't felt very safe. I get that you can't relax yet, but you must still be feeling like you are in this hypersensitivity state where anything can happen at any time. Uh, you see, this is a, uh, only what we can do, believe me or not, even during the occupation. It's a sport. It's like physical exercise and study. I try to accomplish my C P P for the certification for a. Yeah, for the, so I try do my best at least learning something and small pieces. I failed my first course, but it was the two years ago and I, I hope like for, maybe for this May, I'm not sure, again, depends on situation because you have those period of blackouts when you keep the electricity for the, for something else, not for, for your computer and for the for. So, um, and you see this is a family. When you see like your family close to you, bloom, it's so important to. Your son is grown and my son is growing because he'll be big boy and you know, I'm, I'm headed and I try to provide him with every single what I know. And that's why like every weekend we try to go into the shooting range. Believe me or not, he's not how to operates a pistol and the rifle. And I, I'm, um, I don't want his give up easily if something bad going to happen again. So that's why unfortunately that's unfortunately cause it should become later as a normal, you know, use. We don't have a time to, to just waiting for something. He is, his life has been diverted, isn't it? His experiences are diverted to a new way, and I guess he couldn't have a better dad because you are giving him basic life skills, aren't you? And, and yes, you know, his innocence may have gone, but there's nothing wrong with being smarter to the situation. No, but you see, this is, right now it's, uh, time management For us it's perfect because this is during the, this time, but we don't have electricity. You exactly know how long your light is going on. Like, but your torch will be working and as soon as soon you get the electricity you need to first all put everything on the recharge. You need to do that, that, that, and this is like li life time experience. So next time when you get in the. He know exactly what he need to do. And believe me, he knows what should be in his grab bag. You know, obviously this is again terrible, but 11 years old boy knows what he should, he has his own grab bag, of course, but, uh, he, he knows it should be what food he need to have and and stuff. And of course we try to, not spoiling, but. Try to put more attention to him, to give him more some, maybe it's, of course it's wrong, but to give him like sweet stuff to, to buy him some computer games, to just to keep them his childhood, you know, it's, it's important because I understand he'll be growing it's normal stuff of progressing, but they miss and he miss his grandparents, you know, they cream and they cry in there all the time. From time to time, he's sitting in the toilet and crying because he don't want to, you saw his, his crying, but they crying there. He's crying here, and this is terrible. You couldn't, how to explain to the kids you can cannot see your grandparents. And they like missing him very much because they love him. It's, yeah, it's, it's a life. we hope you get to see them too and post a photograph on LinkedIn when you get together finally. That would be very nice. We, we'll all know what that means. when you, yeah, when you do fi, finally get your c p p. It will be a big celebration. Andre. You have to let us know at the as i s community, because you will have had this C P P. Through the most adverse conditions ever. In fact, you put me to shame. I've been putting off doing it and I'm thinking, nos, I'm not ready. I'm not ready if I don't have any of the problems in the way that you do. So community, it's really great because always when, when we arrived to I, I visit personally, last two Gs. And believe me, assume they saw you from Ukraine. And a lot of know me personally because, you know, we, we, we normal guys, we like to have a chat with anybody to explain. And it's not only business, it's just like, uh, security professional, always have a. Topics to discuss without the job and stuff. And, uh, you see, this is a, when they come to the war where all people put theirs name on the CTP wall, and I'm just like, no, I, I have to like, it's, it's hard. It's hard, but, but you see, this is a push in people and that's why you, our ace Ukrainian chapter is just growing Right now we have 113 people, I believe, because I try to bring all my guys there who, who never know about the eighties and, and plus I'm the military liaison officer in our chapter, so I try to, Support our arm forces and special with the psychological support because in Ukraine it's a terrible situation. It is always a post, uh, posts syndromes and nobody on the governmental level even thinking about it because they have a lot of the stuff. And we as a, as a security professional need to already start to prepare. That's why in our heat rings one of the David fully delegate to the psych. And psychologists working about the stress, about dilemma, not even under the shelling. You need to breathe in in a short way and this is a keep your motivation and stuff. So I, a lot of stuff I learned as well. So because it's a psychologist and for us, you know, we're military and you know, Go one, go another attacking defense. But psychologists have explanation for everything. And give us a chance to, because all our guys, believe me, on the front lines, they already injured from this is a heavy arteri over theirs. Like, um, Middle ears, it's already bad. So we know it's, it's happened and that's why we also prepare the acting shooter courses. So we understand it's, uh, unfortunately, but it's going to hit Ukraine as well. So we try to be ready and try to do as much as we can to support to population normal. Population normal people who is not security guys,

44:34

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Yoyo: 45:19

to your point about being ready, was the Ukrainian business community ready before it happened? No. No, they're not even expecting because you see, this is a, a problem of Ukraine because we always think about the Russian. Even we have the same standards, we don't have a same electrical plugs. Everything was like, yeah, why not? And a lot of have a relative there and you know, we speak Russian. This is a probably one of the, again, not concern point, but really important because. From my childhood. I, I, I used to speak Russian in my family. Even. I'm Ukrainian, I speak fewer Ukrainians, and, but we used to speak Russian and this is not considered something wrong. Believe me, a lot of people right now just don't speak Russian at all, and they speak Ukrainian and not because they, they, uh, they already hate. This is only meaning of the Russians and this, they show there's position, like even the, it'll be bad Ukraine, but it's Ukrainian. And of course, Certain time it's getting better and better and, but right now kids speak only Ukrainians. Even they learn Russians, they read the Russian books because I, I love the Russian books and Russian history and the, obviously the start, but Ukrainian unfortunately, but we will do it in our way and our net probably generation will be pure Ukrainian in everything. In the writing, in the speaking and and understanding. Cause you see, you thinking on the Russian and you. Automatically do in the beginning of the conflict. I not think about that so deeply, but right now, as further is going, you understand like language matter. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you mentioned as well that the Ukrainians un understand the Russian language more than the Russians. Understand. Ukrainian Ukrainians will always, like, always understand what Russians said, So before we finish up now, um, I e even if Putin made a decision to leave you alone tomorrow, there is still an awful lot of work to do to get the Ukraine back to some sort of full operational normality. It's a long way off. we understand that, and you'll probably continue to need support from the wider communities that are there for you. But what does this next year have in store for you and what's your plan at the moment if you have one? Other than passing the C P p of course. CPP important, but, uh, for us it's important to restore the infrastructure because a lot of infrastructure object being destroyed, and this is a, creates difficulty with electrical lines, with all the line of communications and stuff. So, uh, for Ukraine, important to, uh, return our territories by the borders of the 1991, including the gans region in Premier. And, uh, started from there to restructure and a lot of building of the school. all always as a hospital, schools, uh, and buildings, always as a city, houses and all. Normal stuff. So, for Ukraine it's a huge, huge way to to, to development. Of course we are not going to build New Dubai here, but building is really something even better because yeah, we'll have to build and Ukrainian know how to build and you know, we go to the aviation with rocket science with everything and rebuild the, restart the university and they bring our people who have to leave the country to bring back. Cause not a lot of them. But more than 70% will become back because some people just use situation to escape to the west to for the better life. But believe me, more, more people will become back and they, because if Ukraine will be normal and normal life here, why should we live? Because it's a really beautiful country with a really hard working people, with a good environment. We have a black sea, we have a mountain, we have. A lot of the good stuff to, to, to see and do it here. It's really, it's not the paradise. It's uh, no, but if you working hard and Ukraine, it's a really good place for living and you can, my American can confirm because a lot of Americans and, and British people as well to just would love to retire here because it's really good place for living. I know that, the a s I s regional European seminar is usually held somewhere in Holland or Rotterdam. But would it be nice that we could envisage a future here now that the European a s I S conference should be held in the Ukraine when you've, when everything is sort of back to some sort of normality? It would be nice to see that, wouldn't it? To have the Ukraine host a s I S Europe. Absolutely agree, and we, we hope we'll play like, uh, uh, more role in international security because you see all the security professionals right now here, even, they're not physically here, but they, they're tracking what's going on in Ukraine. And for us it's a, you see, this is a mix of the, um, war situation and security situation. And I, uh, I get invitation. IPSA International, uh, business, uh, international Bodyguard Association visits their there, uh, a conference in April in the Budapest. So I probably will, uh, visit them and give a speech about what we can do and have we development in professional way. And of course we, uh, have a i a. SAS conference in Ukraine, it'll be great, but it's probably take maybe next to two years and, and you'll see it like 2025 probably will be good time. Yeah. And, it needs to come sooner, I think is the sentiment that I want to get across. in the interim, of course, we did joke about this, but we do have the Eurovision song contest coming up. Uh, we will do our very best, uh, Andre, uh, to still beat the Ukraine, even though last year we couldn't. I have to say we were thrill. Honestly to be able to host the Eurovision sub contest for the Ukraine. And I think it's demonstrative of the fact that there is a huge allyship there. And, even at that level, at that level of music, it's demonstrative of the fact that, people wanna support and, you know, it's gonna be a day of celebration for all Ukrainians it's gonna have a lot more meaning. So good luck with your entry Thank you. But to see this is interesting because we have more relation what even thinking because one of the Ukrainian lady been a queen of the Great Britain. So we have a really close relation with this Great Britain. And this is, historically and practically, and that's why I believe that's why, uh, Great Britain is the first country would give us a hint and support with us, with a weapon, with the political support is, is ever seen and believe me, like always is a, I can say like more than 50% of security advisors in, in all the media, Western media here, it's from the Great Britain and of course they're from the ex-military and ex-police officers and they know they because they understand the religions and they know something and they getting really good paid I believe as well. So it's also, I. Yeah, there's a lot to do and the focus still needs to be on, applying pressure to Russia as well. And that can only be done with a global position, of unity. Andre, I can't thank you enough. I know that we sit together on the A S I S, international Physical Steering Committee. It's an absolute pleasure to have you on that committee, and it's an absolute pleasure to get your, experie. For the Security Circle podcast. Thank you so much. Thank you for inviting and I hope we'll continue and we'll see what next. Thank you