EP 019 Lee Oughton and Tim Wenzel Talk About 'The Kindness Games'

About Lee...

Lee Oughton is a Certified Security Management Professional - CSMP® & Chief Customer Officer to SPS based out of the UK & Ireland.  

Lee proudly presides as a Member of the board for ZFIS & The Relentless Revival Safe Haven. 

He is also the Co-Founder & Kindness Crusader for #thekindnessgames LLC, where Lee and his fellow Teammates of Kind Followers, are changing corporate cultures by fostering kindness and positivity within the workplace.

An accomplished & championed speaker in-person and on the virtual stage.

An entrepreneur and security professional with a highly successful international career within security and risk management; working extensively within corporate and high-risk environments. Particularly within the Middle East, UK & Europe, Unites States, ASIA PAC & LATAM.

Twenty (26) years of Military, Corporate Security, Business Risk and Consulting professional experience, training and education in both domestic and international venues, organizations, and corporations.

Now residing in Queretaro Mexico for the past 6 years. Becoming a recognized expert by a multitude of news agencies, and foundations dedicated to the study of the principal threat to national and citizen security in Mexico, Latin America, and the Caribbean: Organized Crime. Such brands include Fox News, Disney Group, New York Times, Univision, National Geographic and InsightCrime.org.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lee-oughton-csmp%C2%AE-92b716b8/

 About Tim...

Tim Wenzel, Creator & Co-Founder of The Kindness Games, is a global security leader, public speaker and thought leader in the security, leadership, and wellness industries. Tim is a highly regarded Coach & Mentor.  He has a passion to help transform the existing paradigms of leadership and risk management while creating organizational value through well designed programs.

In 2022, Tim was named a Global Influencer & Thought Leader in the Security Industry by IFSEC.  He is noted in business for his problem-solving skills, which stem from his background in healthcare.  By properly identifying the root causes of risk, Tim and his teams create a bridge between opportunity and risk for businesses. 

 https://www.linkedin.com/in/relevant-perception/

 Find the Kindness Games on Linked In
https://www.linkedin.com/company/thekindnessgames/

The Kindness Games

Heal Your Community, Change the World by Leading with Kindness. https://thekindnessgames.com/

Security Circle ⭕️  is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers

Transcript

Yoyo 0:16

Hi, this is Yolanda. Welcome. Welcome to the Security Circle podcast. If poe is the International Foundation for Protection Officers and we are dedicated to providing meaningful education and certification for all levels of security personnel and make a positive difference to our members' mental health and wellbeing, and to all of our listeners around the world. Thank you for being a part of the Security Circle podcast with me today. I have two incredibly special guests. I dunno if you can hear, but I'm very excited to be speaking to them. The first one, Lee au. Kindness crusader and chief Customer officer, board member security strategist, entrepreneur, leadership ambassador, influencer, and empowering positivity for a better world. Tim is a risk management and leadership professional, and he was also named a global influencer and thought leader in the security industry by Ssec International, and he's widely recognized as an S M E in enterprise security risk management, and works on the outreach and education lead on the A S I S E S R M steering committee and a highly regarded coach and mentor. Both are here to talk about the Kindness Games created in September, 2020 and quickly adopted as a strategy initiative by getting security done. Hashtag the Kindness Games was started as a way to counter program the disruption, hate and discontent that has engulfed our world during the Covid 19 pandemic with a aim to heal our relationships. And communities through targeted hashtag kindness. Hello to both of you. Thanks for joining us. Hello? Hello? Hello. Hey. Yo-Yo. How are you? Great. Now listen, I am super excited to hear about the Kindness Games. Tim, do you wanna take us through, because I remember it was a particularly dark moment for you, that you saw the light. Tell us how it all started. Yeah. So, back in 2020, COVID happened and kind of screwed everything up for everybody. but I was still traveling for work and I had two, two week quarantines that I did in a hotel. The first one was in May of 2020 and halfway through that the George Floyd killing happened which was terrible. I just watched the video on repeat as the world kind of around us. Should have United, right? We should have all came together because everybody agreed it was terrible, but we did not, our media, our leaders, they tried to push us apart and we allowed it. And, and so then my second two week quarantine was in September of 2020, and I turned on the TV and all I saw was the the riots at the Portland Courthouse, the. Rioters shooting fireworks at the police and trying to blow up the building and I turned the channel and it's like more hate and I turned a channel and more hate, and every channel I turned to said, Hey, if you look like this, if you think like this, if you have these opinions, then there are at least one, possibly several other groups. That you can no longer be friends with. In fact, you have to hate them and you have to actively try to destroy them socially at work, politically or in real life. And the more I thought about that, I said, no, that is not the America that I served when I was in the Army. That is not how I think people interact. I just don't buy into it. But this heaviness was weighing on me and I've never felt depression before, but, I assume that's what that, that that heavy weight just feels like. And so Lee had done this ridiculous post on LinkedIn, which is his normal, and it was like, Hey, I've got some young professionals and they're doing workshops and they're doing professional development. I was like, shut up. That's so stupid. People are supposed to be their professional development, you know? And so I was in that spot and I was just like, I was just like, ah, this is such a stupid post. Like this is normal. Stuff, right? We shouldn't have to celebrate normal stuff. But the more I thought about it, the more I laughed that, how ridiculous it was. And then I was thinking, these two guys, young security professionals in Mexico, they just had their C O O A globally recognized person in the industry, call them out. And I started looking at who was liking it. And it was like Tim creates the Chuck Andrews like, Yeah, the, the, the big names in the industry. And I was like, wow. They, they, I bet they feel great. And I bet some of those people are even reaching out to them and saying like, Hey, I'd like to meet you. This is great. And so I said, you know what? This might be a good idea. So I called Lee, I was like, Hey, ma'am, I'm in a dark spot right now. I'm not doing well. And I feel like we need to do this like every day for 30 days. And I said, I kind of feel like we're in an ideological hunger games. We're being told that there's people we need to destroy. So why don't we call it the Kindness Games? Why don't we find people that deserve to be lifted up and lift them up for the world to see? Why don't we find people that we know are hurting and elevate them and let everybody else see the goodness that they put out into this world? And so, he said, all right, I'll hold your hand, bro. And we walked off into the sunset. and Li Lee, thanks so much for being there. And what, what did you think, I mean, this crazy guy came to you, said, I'm just getting cabin fever in my hotel room. We've gotta do something and that, and I, that's a lovely place to start. And it's I thought about this long and hard since, I mean, at the specific time I didn't really know what to think apart from just say yes and be there to, to support Tim. And for your listeners at the time, myself and Tim didn't know each other that well. I mean, we knew each other from some of the things that we did on getting security. We'd recorded some podcasts and we'd been doing stuff with getting security done, but we'd never met. Yeah, we'd never, we'd never met in person. We'd just done a few things virtually. So I didn't really know Tim that well, but, What I knew or what I felt that I had to do was be at service for Tim. You know, someone needed to serve Tim to help him through these dark moments, and I could clearly see that he was challenged and thinking about it deeply. You know, he's a big guy, you know, typee, you know, kind of character. Really, you know, he's, he's out there super confident you know, extremely well known respected and supported by so many, and to see him so, shattered and fragile, I was like, wow, this is, this is massive. Yeah. This is, you know, we, we've gotta do this together. And that's where we, we started the voyage. Didn't expect it to go where it did. Just thought it was a couple of dudes kind of clowning around a little bit. Having some fun, you know, I think most people know who I am, what I do, how I share positivity, and I'm, and, and I always want to lift others up. I use LinkedIn as my voice to really help others. And I think maybe that, like Tim kind of identified that in me, he liked what I was doing and he was like, right, I, I, I need a partner in life, you know? And, and knowing Tim as well as I do now I was honored. I was honored that he chose me, that he picked me. To go on this transformational journey with him, Tim Wago. And the other thing is, I think we forget, dude, because you and I, we started doing the G S D talks, which is, you know, kind of fun. Let's talk about security. But then we had the idea with John Harris to do G S D fails. Let's talk about dark moments. Let's talk about mental health. Let's talk about failures that have almost destroyed a career, have lost us a job. And so you and I had already had that experience, right, of sitting with people in their dark moments and telling the story and pushing towards the light at the end of the tunnel, knowing that good can come out of failure if you learn from it. Yeah. They call it failing forward, don't they? Where there's no such thing as a bad fail. It's always failing and learning, failing and learning, and therefore we're failing and learning and growing. But G S D, that's getting security done. That's a stateside initiative, isn't it? Take us through cuz isn't that where you also first met as well? Yeah, so this story starts at the very first CIA Acceler conference in Minneapolis, Minnesota. That's where I met John Harrison person for the first time. That's where I met Britney Golly, in person for the first time. And we were all speaking and we all just kind of got together and for a dinner one night with a bunch of people. And we started talking and chatting and talking during breaks and we're like, man, really? Get along. And Brittany said, are you guys going GSX in Chicago? Yes. So this is 2019 and she's like, great, I'm, I'm gonna put together a lunch for a bunch of people. I want you guys to come. Perfect. It ended up being a breakfast because everybody's busy for lunch and so she sent the invite out breakfast. At Britney's, which I thought was kind of hilarious. Yeah, it's a play breakfast at Tiffany's, isn't it? Yeah, so about about 19 people I think showed up. It was crazy. And, and we all, you know, were youngish professionals. We just started like, what do you hate about the industry? Oh, this sucks. This is terrible. All these things, they should be doing this. I can't believe they don't understand, like the times that we're in. And we had a really great complaint. Complaint session. And Brittany said at the end, she's like, well, that was fun, but does anyone wanna do anything about it? And some of us said, yeah, let's go. And so two weeks after the conference, we started weekly calls for about a year, and we started brainstorming how are we going to change the industry? So Lee, take us through what it was like meeting Tim for the first time. Is he, what you expected? More than, more than the, I mean, it was kind of a, we, we had this, we had this mad online romance and I, I was, I was super excited about meeting and then and then we, we had a photo together. We had a hug together. There was another guy, I think Nick, Nick Porter was with us at the time when, when we met, you know, physically in person at G S X in, in Atlanta. And it was just super cool. and to be honest, Tim was better than I thought, you know? And we just hit it off straight away and, we were inseparable then for the, for the next week. You know, we, we literally didn't leave each other's side and it was so cool. Waltzing around, you know, Atlantic and, and even in the middle of, You know, Atlanta in the street, there were people, it was so weird. People would come up to us and say, oh my God, it's you two. And, and it's Tim Lee. it felt a little bit weird at sometimes because I'm not one of, like, even though I'm super extravagant right? And I'm very self-confident in your face. It doesn't sit well with me when people start kind of like fan crushing on you. If, if, if that's, you know, an actual term. Yeah, and again, cause I, I'm just like, the way I look at it, I'm just a normal person. I'm a normal person, you know, from a real good family. Super respectful and, and I'm actually more interested in listening to other people not actually. Me sharing all about, whilst I love coming on these podcasts and talking about myself and our initiatives, I just love to listen. So I think when these people meet me and then I'm just more interested in them, and I think that maybe that's why I really kind of click with people and their the connection is so deep because I really just want to hear about them and, and then. When I meet someone, they're never a stranger, cuz I turn'em into a friend like immediately and then, you know, they join us, you know, then they become part of the crew. And I can tell you one specifically, a really good mutual friend of mine, and Tim's now a guy called Varun from India, owns his own security company out there. He called me and we happened to be in a pizza parlor. On the first day I was, unfortunately I was nursing a hangover. I am a But it was with the entire G s D crew, like exactly, probably 15 of us. Yes, right. Fif 15 of us all sat around on this table. He called me and he was like, where are you? And I was like, I'm in this pizza parlor. Come down and meet me now. Look, there's a load of people here, but you're more than welcome. So he came in. He sat at the end of the table, I immediately, I never shake someone's hand. I give him a hug. Right. So immediately I give him a hug, sit him down at the table, you know, introduce him to everybody. And again, we were inseparable for the entirety of, yeah, the conference. We invited him everywhere with us and he was out dinner. We're going to this after party. I don't think he showed up to karaoke though, which is kind of, Yeah. In fact we need, that's a knock against him, right? Yeah. We're docking a few points for that. Perhaps he can't sing very well. Well, yeah, that might be a little bit intimidating cuz me and Tim actually can, you know, hold a few notes. Oh, we throw down Yeah. Us, Mike Petty came on. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Did you sing anything together? We didn't, I think, I think again, because we've got our own. Presence, stage presence. We are enigmas in our own rights. Well, most people don't know this, but Lee only sings country Western songs. Yeah, I, it's, and I don't sing country western. I only do rap and rock. So I was thinking a bit more like Elton John, Kiki d I got you, babe. Allison Sands and I threw down an amazing rendition of Gangsters Paradise. Right. Okay. That sounds like Slay. Okay. Yeah. So when you got your heads together then and you realized you, you're sitting on something Tim, tell me what, what became your mission and vision very quickly for the Kindness Games? You know, the funny thing is, is we never intended. For it to turn into anything. By the time we were finishing our 30 days, there were 10 other people doing it and three people almost finishing. And we talked, we were like, what are we gonna do with like these people? Oh, we'll call, we'll call'em alumni and we'll start like a chat group and we can support each other and network and all that good stuff, right? And so when people finished their 30 days, they became Tkg alumni, and that's fun. But then we started doing jangle Bell Kindness. There's 30 days between Thanksgiving and Christmas, US Thanksgiving, and then we started doing 24 hours of kindness. The idea of Steve Deo unfortunately departed from us this last year. Okay. But, but that was ringing in the new year for every time zone when it hit. Midnight in that time zone, and by the time we rang in the new year, we had 19 people who had finished. We had over 100 people doing it. And by the time we finished the first year, there was one person on every continent who had finished the challenge. We had over 200 people doing it. We had 30 alumni. Mike Gipps actually he kept us off finishing on the one year anniversary of the Kindness Games. And we were just like, wow, this is crazy. And then, and then companies started reaching out. Do you guys do wellness programs? Do you do employee engagement programs? Do you do leadership programs? And so we kind of had, everybody was like, what are we gonna do with this now? And we're like, I didn't plan to do anything. So we, we came up with we came up with this idea That kindness could be something of a philosophy that you can lead your life holistically with. So we redefined the word kindness make it made it an operational definition. The endeavor to recognize the humans on the other side of each life scenario, with the intention to create the best available outcome for them. Kindness is not about being nice and, and, and in life sometimes. People don't have a good outcome available to them, but we can still give them the best available outcome. So if you're a police officer and you have to arrest somebody, right? There's ways to do this, right? You can, you can take into account, depending on the circumstances, their dignity, the totality of the situation, after you get them under control and in the car. You can have some dialogue with them, right? You can kind of introduce a teachable moment type thing, but you can treat them as a fellow human. If we're terminating people or putting people on performance plans, like, Hey, if you're gonna lose your job and I have to do that, there's no good outcome for you, but maybe I can get you a severance. How long can I have you keep your health insurance? All of these things that we can think about, how to best serve that person, even though they're not going to have a quote unquote. Good outcome., and then we ended up we ended up creating a mission statement. so what you just read out was super cool actually. And to your point, the best available outcome for them is really well thought through. Because like you said, you know, not everything and everybody can be fixed, but it can be made a little bit better and it makes you wonder, really, Lee Covid, I think. It was quite divisive because I think there were those people who did okay and learned to adapt and maybe didn't need social validation and were quite happy living their lives. And I was one of those who enjoyed not having to make fibs up to not attend social events. But then there were those who desperately need social interaction. And those people I can't help but think really struggled and so. It makes you wonder if those kind of people were very low down on their energy reserves in relation to, you know, just kindness overall. I just get the feeling because of the way this is gained such a lot of momentum that there's a huge hunger for kindness out there. Lee, yeah, there's a massive, I would say like cry for help. There's a requirement for it. And again, what we always say is that we're, we are not the enforcers of kindness. And that's never what we wanted to do when we came up with this initiative. But we wanted to be a vessel for others and give that platform for those guys and girls who were suffering in silence. And it wa it wasn't. One demographic that we focused on, we put it out there for everybody. I think to both mine and Tim's amazement, it was just really kind of moving the way that people just opened up to us, broke down in front of us. You know, tears, pure emotion, you know, rawness of. What was going on in their lives. And a lot of people that we weren't expecting that they were going through that. I mean, usually a as, as we, the three of us aren't there know. And again, because of what we do we usually see and read the signs, right? There's usually red flags., there's triggers, there's flashpoints, and we can recognize that. But the people that were approaching us were even leaders who are more recognizable than myself and Tim, and that are actually have been out there for longer than us. That, that wanted to get involved, but also not just wanted to get involved, was to share their own personal journey and voyage and what it was doing for them. And how much they needed it and how dark a place they were in. And it was, whilst it was fascinating to hear all of this we also then had a duty of care for these people because, you know, we are not therapists and again, we can't give out prescriptions or, you know, suggestions on medication. And that's not what we would even try and You know, encounter or embark upon, right? It was more of, this is the philosophy, this is the voyage, come and jump on board. Now, Tim does it different to me. he would literally be like, on a call, right? You ready to record? Let's do this. Whereas what I used to do, again, because I'm very. Wear my heart on, on, on the sleeve, off the cuff, you know, do things like that. I'd rather be inspired by the moment. I would then say to them, right, go away. Think about this. And I want you to really dig deep and be as vulnerable as you can, because the vulnerability is where the magic happens. That's where the growth takes place. And when we talk about how to play, it's got nothing to do with the rules, the framework, the script. It's the transformational journey that you go on. Immediately you start thinking about it. I just like those thoughts are rushing through your head. And then I can guarantee not only have you changed after 30 days. You have enacted an empowered change within your community with your wife, husband, kids, whatever. You know, you in your community guarantee everybody else has changed for the better. Yeah. And people do change. I know we'll talk about later, but we have a book coming out and some of the stories of transformation from people that participated in this first year, mind blowing and people submitted. These chapters and we were like, what? I had no idea you were going through that. And, and the funny thing is literally changing lives. I mean, not really us, right? it's the process. When you focus on more positive thoughts, when you engage your community, when you bring people around you, when you lift other people up, you know what's interesting When you're going through depression or hard times, you need to do self-care, but you also need to serve. And when you serve others, it puts you in a better spot. And so this is an act of service to uplift others and cast your vision on who has done good in my life, who has helped. And, and in the midst of all of this transformation, we have a lot of people in the security industry, you know, kind of like, ah, hilarious. This is Interesting cuz you know, we can't be kind in security and they're kind of heckling, which is fine. Some of it was in good fun. Some of it was not in good fun. Some of the people that were participating were actually told like, Hey, we don't do this here. Like, if you want this job, like you'll stop. Do you want to be known as the kind security professional? And some of the younger people that were participating in this is what they were getting from leadership or their their cohorts at work. and they were coming to us and we were just like, look, here's the thing, like, I wouldn't tell you what to do with your job at stake, but I would ask you, is that the place you want to be? Right? Is this how you want to lead your life? And the funny thing is, For a while, I was wondering like, are we actually gonna make any traction in this industry? Are we going to change anybody's mind? Are we going to open people's mind to understand that there's a different way we can deal with people, we can deal with each other, leadership from a more positive perspective, rather than that old chain of command, zero sum game that we all learned in the military law enforcement. And then on our one year anniversary, Mike Gipps finished and I was like, man, GIS is a pretty big deal. And then not too long later, Tim McCrite, who is the current president of az, said, Hey, can I get involved? And I was like, oh, this is turning into something. And, and then it keeps going and going and going. And, you know, last year at G S X Lee and I met for the first time, we were stuck together for basically the entire conference. Lots of people. We met crowds of people around us when we were together, which is kind of hilarious. We even showed up to some other education sessions and they kind of seated the floor to us and we're like, this isn't that our session? But that just speaks to how much impact, how deep of an impact this movement has had within the industry. And yet we still had some people who were kind of like making fun of it. I was just at ISC West. No people poking fun. Which is a good sign, I think. I think it's a maturity that's coming around in the industry to say we don't have to be tough all the time. Yeah. We don't have to have the biggest muscles and the biggest brong. Although Mike Petty's got pretty big muscles and he's an alumni. So I think he's leading the way in that aspect. But I think we are actually having an effect, which is which is hopeful. Didn't Taylor Swift say skeptics gonna be skeptical? They, I think it was haters gonna hate, right? Well, I'm just making up my own version of it. So Lee, the book, I mean, look, this is super thrilling and I appreciate it's not ready yet, but it's cooking. When do you think it's gonna be available for pre-release? I think I can announce this actually, cause I think we are pretty on schedule and we are definitely working extremely hard to make it happen. So, we should be launching it at G S X in September. September, so, wow. Watch this space. I'm gonna, Do a little bit of a spoiler. and we talked about earlier about the effects of the journeys. and now you've talked about the book and Tim kindly spoke about some of the voyages, that the alumni had been on. And we can say that in the book, we talk about bullying, we talk about. Discrimination. We talk about wellness, mental health, and not only is it their voices and their journeys that they're going on, but it will make you so emotional. It brought me to tears reading some of the chapters that our alumni just pulled their hearts and souls into. There's even in one of the chapters, one of our alumni. It's the last time that they got to say goodbye to their father before he passed away. In Covid, there's one that talks about the discrimination that she got, that she selt different to others, and and was told that, and to read some of these comments and like Tim described earlier, that some of our alumni were bullied and sold. You can't bring this kindness into the workplace. It is not welcome here. And you'll, you will read all of these stories. And again, I want, and it's got nothing to do with getting rich out of the book. I want millions of people to buy this book just for the fact of the journey. It will take you on and the potential it could give you. To become a better person. And that's all we are trying to do is we are trying to help people better themselves, give themselves opportunities that they didn't think was possible and to understand that you can achieve anything in life if you set your mind to, of it, if you are positive, and most of all, if you are kind to others because the universe. Will give back to you. I promise you. I agree., I genuinely think it does. And I, I've said already that even doing voluntary work, it just pays dividends. Whether you know you are doing something in your community or you're doing something for your work community, if you are doing it because of the better goodness of doing it. There's something really kind of special that happens, I think, and I think they're starting to identify now, aren't they? That mental health is made somewhat easier to deal with when the focus is on doing kindness for other people Tim, give me an example from the book where somebody's clearly managing a mental health issue talk about how the kindness gains and paying it forward in that way has helped them. So there's one chapter where this lady talks about driving down the highway, looking at the ocean, and having the very real thought and voice in her head. Me and my family would be better off if I just drove off, and so she had that thought. It scared her. She went home to her husband and said, Hey, I, this, I just had this thought and I can't believe it, but it sounded reasonable to me. and so they did the right things. She went and got a counselor, and then shortly after, she ran across the Kindness Games and jumped in and she did her 30 posts. By the end of her 30 posts, she had quit her job, which was feeding toxicity into her life. She was making progress with her therapy, her therapist. She had secured a new role at a company that was a much better environment. Her family was closer and she had a new outlook on like, on life and that's the thing, I think our book is going to offer people. A different perspective on how to engage the world around them. Yeah. which I think is important. Well, look I know that it's not available just yet, but when you do get the link, We'll, we'll be able to retrospectively in September add it to this podcast bio anyway so that we can make sure that anyone that picks up the podcast, I mean, why they wouldn't listen to it this week, I don't know. But some people might not get round to it until they go on holiday this summer. So a book a great initiative. Is there anything coming out further down the line? I don't know. Lee, do we have anything coming down further down the line? This is the coolest thing about me and Tim is, and again, you think about the whole mission, vision of the kindness games we don't plan. Right? It's all natural. It's all impulse, it's all it's organic. It is. It is. And again, it is such a, Pulsing heartbeat of who we are. And again, I think what me and Tim love to do is watch the industry, watch the community, watch Society on a whole, and then we go, Hey mate, I think they need some help there. Mm-hmm. Couldn't we pivot the kindness games slightly and focus on that? You know, is that something that we could. Could get into, you know, it's like the leadership aspect. we never planned that. We never planned a website, we never planned the Kindness Games being a business, you know, and it just grew from there. The interesting thing is there are so many opportunities that are becoming available to us that we would never have thought. So the book's coming out in September. By the time in two weeks, by the time people are listening to this podcast, Lee and I are already gonna be in Zurich, Switzerland presenting at a risk conference. They've invited the Kindness Games to talk about the story of risk, how to communicate well at G S X. We have another tandem presentation on designing highly effective and autonomous teams. So the interesting thing is these. Team development, this community development, communication. How does my presence in this space, or on the Zoom call, actually affect? How does it curve time and space, and how can I make that work towards better outcomes? Right? All of these things that we're starting to talk about. Yeah. In the workshops that we give, we're being asked to speak about them internationally. So who knows what this is going to lead to, but I will tell you that businesses. See the need to be able to communicate well, to be able to engage teams better and to be able to design teams around a joyful environment that they want to come into work in. Your point actually, we about work environments. Tim, since we last spoke, I've covered subjects around recruitment and the instability around recruitment One of our colleagues you won't know her, but one of the podcasts, she did a survey and the survey basically interviewed a broad spectrum of people and the same percentage of people who felt disengaged. Not connected to the company's vision and mission and values which is quite, you know, empirical. Really to be understanding of those three key areas with the same percentage of people who are actively looking for other work. And people just don't feel like. You know, they're gonna wait it out and go through tough times. People are now saying, you know what, I'm not gonna stay in a job that's making me miserable. I'm not gonna stay in a job where I don't feel valued. I'm not gonna stay in a job where I don't think my values are aligned. And that's a key thing going forward. So don't you think the sooner that corporate life needs to embrace. The kindness piece because otherwise it's just gonna have a constant churn of recruiting, which is expensive. Yeah. And you know, I would ask the question to any business, do you endeavor to recognize the human on the other side of every life situation and have the intention to create the best available outcome for them? There are a lot of businesses that don't think about it that way. They don't think about it for their customers, they don't think about it for their employees, and it's just, it's an unfortunate side effect. But the interesting thing is this is taking hold, the Security Journal of the Americas, they just gave me a column on leadership to talk about these things, and it's Tim Wenzel, creator of the Kindness Games. It's not. Whoever else I work for in the security industry, and we're actually walking through these leadership topics because a big problem is leaders often get pulled into leadership and they don't plan. They don't intentionally develop a personal philosophy and a strategy for wielding the power of leadership. And so they make these decisions when they get into tough situations. Yeah. They make these decisions when there's trouble. Yep. They make these decisions when the tensions are high. And some of these decisions that I'm talking about in the, this series of articles, once you make this decision and you make this choice and you walk this path in an organization with a team around you, it's really hard if seemingly impossible to backpedal. And so these are intentional choices that need to be made and a philosophy of leadership formed so that you understand how you're gonna deal with these tough times because leadership is more stressful than just being a contributor. Yeah, 100%. But Lee, when you consider that corporation, corporate life has always been focused on the output of an individual, not the individual. Lee, what's the solution? How can being kind help? Yeah, no, great question. I mean, businesses pure and simple. Focus on the bottom line, right? That is what they are focused on. What we are trying to do, and again, through the Kindness Games and some of the other initiatives that we do, like the human side of security, is we take on topics and subjects that people don't want to talk about, and. I think it was a lady you were just, talking about cultures and the visions and mission statements that she couldn't buy into. Well, we've just covered that and again, it's on LinkedIn at the moment. And we talked about those cultures that you can't buy into cuz it's just an impossibility. So what we are trying to do again with kindness is empower. Those enabling, supporting, empowering cultures that really focus on team togetherness, unity. And me as a business owner, I'll always focus on my team because they're the ones that make me productive, that make the business productive. So if you think about it, if businesses and corporations are clever, cuz they just wanna make money, Why are they not focusing on the humans? Right. Be smart about it. Like you don't have to buy into it. Yeah. if you think kindness is kind of cheesy, alright, just pretend you're buying into it. Right? Because even by just pretending you are gonna make. Your culture's so much better and you're gonna get to your end goal, your deliverable that you want to make money, right? Yeah. Which it saddens me that I've gotta say that, but at least from my point of view, cuz I want kindness in the in, in the workplace. I'm getting everybody to buy in it. I don't really care what you feel about it. Just come to the party and it and ever, cuz you'll always get the 50 50 split. You'll get the naysayers. And the naysayers, right? But for me, at least, I'm getting everybody to the party and I am then trying to foster this culture of coming together. And for me, the most important aspect is to get people talking again, right? Yes. to know your colleague, to understand. What they're going through, what makes them tick? How can we work together rather than this bs when you wanna talk down to someone, you wanna ridicule'em, you screwed up, you messed up, dude. Why did you do that? Well, how does that serve any good purpose? Yeah, let's talk it through. Right? Everybody makes mistakes, everybody fails, but that's the awesome part of it. Yeah. Talking, identifying where it went wrong. How do we. Right the wrong. How do we correct that mistake and how do we then go on a real cool journey together where we're brainstorming, you know, be articulate about what you are trying to do? Leaders again, should be leading, right? It's again, you think about risk. You know, if you are a leader, you should be thinking about strategy. You shouldn't be tactical and operational. Tactical in operation is why you employ talent, why you employ experience. That is your teammate's focus. And again, when you sit down at the table, it may be your idea, but get the others involved. Make them feel like it's their idea that they are part of the ecosystem that you are trying to empower, trying to foster. And again, where people get. Confused between nice and kind. Right? Being kind is not being nice, right? Again, you can be very straight with someone and still be kind. You can be direct and be kind, right? Somebody's listening right now. How can they get involved, Tim? I mean, it's pretty easy. Lee and I are on LinkedIn. If you connect with us and you start a conversation, we will engage you. We have a LinkedIn page for the Kindness Games. You can find us there. You can engage with our content. You can reach out. We have a website, the kindness games.com. You can go there, see what it's all about. And you can support us in so many ways, right? We we have a merchandise store if you wanna support us financially. and there's all sorts of different ways to get involved. If you just put into Google hashtag the Kindness Games, like you're just going to find all sorts of people who have posted these videos, and if you connect with and ask any of them, they'll put you in the right direction. Anything to add to that at all, about how people can just get involved, like change their lives this very moment. My message is we want to help. We do, we, we do want to support others. You know, it's all about lifting one another up. You coming into our lives helps us. Right. You know, listening to other people's stories is food for the soul. And you just entering into that conversation is you recognizing that you want to start, you want to make a change, you want to do better, you wanna feel hard of something. And that's what we feel that the Kindness Games gives for others. It's a community. We can tell you factually that people love being part of this community. And they have gone on the record and said The Kindness Games has changed my life for the better. And without you guys and girls, we may have not have got through some of these dark moments. And as Tim mentioned earlier, even as dark as contemplating suicide. Again, we wanna be the support network. We want to try and help as many people as we can, even haters, we engage on the conversation, we wanna speak to you, we wanna understand why you are being negative. What is triggering you with me being kind, because again, that then makes me, that makes us better people for understanding that some people may also get triggered by kindness, but. Come along, come and see us. Come and speak to us. Come and listen to what we're all about and I guarantee you will walk away in a more positive frame of mind. I dunno if you saw the article I had published in the security Matters magazine, the one that's just come out. I gave a nod to the Kindness Games in there. I dunno if you saw it. Well, now that you've said it, we need to read it. We're gonna go find it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's the Security matters edition's just come out. It's the one with Tracker or Asa Abloy on the front and it's page 14. And you inspired me, you and one other person. So there was one other lady. She's decided to join a S I S. She wants to really lean into EDI and I, due to her daughter being of an age where she's now coming under some gender challenges. And the fact that she just got in touch and said, look, I wanna do more. And then I thought about the Security Circle podcast and I remembered my origins for wanting to shed a light on all the best in class that is in the security industry right now. And just build a bridge so that those people who are less privileged in relation to having access to information and great people best in class, have that connectivity. But also, you know what it's like in security when things go wrong, everyone gets the blame, right? And sometimes that's quite justified. You know, there's always things to learn and ways to be better, but we are quite good at beating ourselves up. And in the article, not only was it a call to action for finding your thing, Leaning in doing it, but it was also a way of highlighting really critical issues. You know, and I talked about people like Andy Neil, who has done his masters at an older age in life, and that can't have been easy after a head injury and a medical retirement from the military to people with P T S D like Lee Dridge, who still struggles every day. And then to people just spreading simple kindness. And that wasn't not to you guys then, so you'll have to get a, get an addition of it and stick it in. Stick it in a frame somewhere, but I think there's a lot we can collectively do together through our own channels, just to, to bring it all in into one space. Love it. And that's what we wanna do together, is just lift people up. Right? Let's, yep. Let's empower all of the good initiatives that are out there. That bring us all collectively together. And that's what, again, what the Kindness Games focuses on. How can we help other charities, organizations, initiatives we give to them, we support them, we sponsor them because they're doing great things. And the fact that you have said that on our behalf too, that means the world to us because also we know that our voices and what we've said to you has made an impact. And that's really. What we care about. You know, can we walk off any call, any conversation knowingly that we've made things better, but that Yeah, yep, 100%. We can't do it alone either, so we all need each other for real. Tim, in solidarity. Brilliant. Thank you Bo. Thank you both so much for just giving us your time today and for just explaining the magic behind what is hashtag the Kindness Games. Yo.