EP 080 Kasia Hanson, Global Senior Director Physical and Cybersecurity Ecosystems at Intel Corporation talks about Security Convergence

Kasia Hanson, Global Senior Director | Physical and Cybersecurity Ecosystems at Intel Corporation

Kasia Hanson leads Global Security Ecosystem Development and Partnerships within Intel’s Security Center of Excellence. She is responsible for shaping the strategy, orchestration, and go-to-market with ecosystem. She is a passionate and dynamic security leader with over 24 years of experience driving digital transformation across Edge, IoT/OT, AI, Computer Vision, Cybersecurity, and Datacenter and is well-versed in security software and hardware that drives business outcomes from data protection to physical infrastructure protection and convergence.  She actively contributes to industry advancement and diversity and inclusion initiatives. Notably, she has served as the Past Chair of the Security Industry Association Women in Security Forum, is a member of the WISF Executive Committee, and is a member of the SIA Cybersecurity Advisory Board and Endowment Committee. Recognized for her contributions, Kasia was honored with the 2022 SIA Progress Award and is a 3x Women in Security Power 100 honoree.  In 2023, she was awarded the IIFX Women Innovator award in Sports and holds the title of Distinguished Fellow for the Innovation Institute for Fan Experience in Sports (IIFX).  In 2023, she was recognized as a top cybersecurity female in Top Cyber Magazine, and is an ASIS member. 

June SJA Article on Advanced AI and Analytics: https://digital.securityjournalamericas.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=7ac59359-222c-4e7f-b5f3-ec9ab4687aab&PNUM=20

eBook: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/content-details/780986/critical-convergence-uniting-cyber-and-physical-security-for-optimal-protection.html

  "The Rise of AI-Enabled Analytics in Security".  Follow the link
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/content-details/825689/the-rise-of-ai-enabled-analytics-in-security-security-journal-americas.html

Security Circle ⭕️  is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers

Transcript

0:01

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Yoyo 0:44

Hi, this is Yolanda. Welcome to the Security Circle podcast. IFPO is the International Foundation for Protection Officers, and we are dedicated to providing meaningful education and certification for all levels of security personnel and make a positive difference where we can to our members mental health and well being. Our listeners at the Security Circle podcast are global. They are the decision makers of tomorrow and today. And I want to thank you wherever you are for being a part of the Security Circle journey. And if you love the podcast, we are on all podcast platforms. Currently, Spotify is leading as the most popular one. Don't forget to subscribe or just like, comment and share the post on LinkedIn. Now I have with me today a very special lady, I have been trying to speak to her for a little while now. We almost met in GSX in September last year, which is the great big ASIS security event in America. Her name is Kassia Hansen. Kassia, welcome to the Security Circle Podcast.

Kasia 1:44

Hi, thank you for having me. I'm so glad we can finally make it happen.

Yoyo 1:48

You know, we have every intention of meeting up. I've got a feeling we're going to bump into each other every day in Orlando this year. Absolutely. More than once, I hope. It really is the place to be though, right? This GSX event.

Kasia 2:04

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. I know there's a lot of changes happening with within A. S. I. S. Obviously new leadership. but I think, G. S. X. Is, for me, last year was a an amazing time, connecting with industry leaders and, of course, Texas night. Who can forget Texas night? we were proud sponsor of that and how to. Amazing time connecting with the industry. So I I'm looking forward to it again this year and seeing everybody.

Yoyo 2:31

Chuck certainly knows how to put on a party. And I think, we might've seen then the biggest, best ever Texas night. armadillos were present. So were the Dallas, great miss rodeo. My gosh, she was gorgeous. We had, we had a band playing, sweet home Alabama. I mean, it was

Kasia 2:53

very Texas, wasn't it? And don't forget the longhorn out front, which, like, I love longhorns. And so, all of my family knows, like, I love, I love Texas longhorns. They're just such a beautiful animal to me. And they had one right out front. So it was a dream come true. I got to actually sit on a real longhorn and get a picture. So,

Yoyo 3:13

so for those this side of the pond, it might know, not know what a longhorn is, it's a kind of like

Kasia 3:18

cat, a cow or bull, would you say? Yeah, yeah. It's, it's a it's, I, I think you, I, people in Texas will probably kill me, but it's a, it's a, it's a longhorn. Basically it's a, a cow, a type of a, a cattle that has big longhorns. So, Chuck

Yoyo 3:36

will be spinning at his desk right now. Can you imagine? I know, I know. So, look, this I mean, I can, I can safely say that I met people in Texas at GSX last year, and as a result of meeting them, I am now collaborating with them a year down the line. Something I never saw was going to happen. Chuck talks about networking a lot in his book and the power of relationships. There really is something very underestimated just because you meet someone and there's not a connection for you to collaborate then and there. That doesn't mean to say that connection can't be incredibly influential for you further down the line.

Kasia 4:21

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Relationships are so important. Right? And I think, how I met Chuck was actually through a colleague of mine who is an integrator. Some people may know him, Andrew Lanning, and he mentioned Chuck to me and. And I was like, Hey, I'm going to invite him to dinner and I see Wes. I'd love to get to know him. And Chuck came to the dinner. He had a lot going on that night and, but he came to the dinner and we started to get to know each other. And then fast forward to GSX last year, we were a sponsor of Texas night. And I just think, relationships are so important. And I think. Developing and leaning into those relationships. You're right. You don't know what's going to come of it. But to me, I, I don't look at what's the end result of having a relationship with somebody. I look at. them as a person and do I like, am I learning from them? Do I like hanging out with them? Do I like talking with them? Do you know, how can I help them? I, it's just, the power is very strong when you have good relationships and that's something that, I've, focused on in my career is, is growing relationships really fast and then helping, helping one another. Right. I mean, at the end of the day. that that's what it's all about. Right. And it may not be today, but it may be, I had somebody that was going for a job and, we reconnected after many years and she wanted me to be a reference for her. And I was like, absolutely. I'm happy to help and she got the job. But she leveraged her relationships. So, yeah,

Yoyo 5:52

yeah. And I think what I learned certainly reading Chuck's book, and this isn't all about Chuck, by the way, but I learned, I think you think it is,, he's, his ears are probably burning now. He's looking at fire extinguishers, going fire hydrants, going, damn, why are my ears so hot?

Kasia 6:08

I don't think his

Yoyo 6:09

voice is quite that high pitched, right, but I remember he talked not only about the power of connecting, but the power of maintaining. And I think there are several phases. When I get asked to speak, Normally people are really keen to know about networking, how I network as a woman. Sometimes that's got a very different dynamic to it as well as, you know, the personal brand. And I think you do have to connect your personal messaging, that elevator pitch, that A piece about you that needs to land with somebody when you first meet them. There's no point, I mean, I will talk about this particular instance, and I wonder if you've had any other bad networking examples, but I met a woman and I said, what do you do then? And she do, and then she went off into this kind of really long, five minutes later, I'm holding onto my drink thinking, damn, I wish I'd never asked this question. And she stopped talking and I still didn't know what she did. And me being me, I thought it's kind of unfair for me to step away and not try and get something rewarding from the conversation. But I said, are you open to feedback at all? if you're not, it's really okay. Cause we don't know each other. And we, but I said, and she said, she was, I said, I think you need to work on your elevator pitch. I don't need to know where you used to work two years ago. What I need to know is what you're doing right now so that I can make a decision as to how we can connect with each other. She didn't really appreciate what I said, but I hope she went away and at least processed it and thought, Oh, you know, I did meet this one woman once who said I really needed to think about my elevator picture. She was right. You know, I felt I wouldn't be a very good sister in this industry. If I didn't say to her, even if she hated that moment. I hope she went away and she thought, you know what? I I should be thinking about my elevator pitch. And I think because she was a lot older, I think maybe she wasn't as open to feedback as maybe somebody younger would have been accustomed to. But I also think she hasn't had that input into how she could make that elevator pitch really sort of shine and be dynamic. Have you had any

Kasia 8:18

incidents? Tell me about all the time all the time. I mean, I just came back from security lead her right? The women in security event for put on by Sia and A. S. I. S. It was fabulous and actually one of the speakers talked about, telling people what you do and who you are. Make sure they know because you assume they know. But the reality is they don't know and they don't care. Right. And she said, you think people are like worrying about you and what you're doing and because they don't care. They're not thinking about you. Guess what? It's not about you. And I was like, okay, but I, I think, you know, feedback is a gift as hard as it can be sometimes. And it really is. I absolutely. I welcome feedback. Sometimes it's hard. And when you take it, you're like, huh? Wow. Okay. I didn't expect that one. Right? I've received really great feedback. I've received feedback, even as of late that, I needed to be very clear about what I was doing. And it was a very, it was a very interesting conversation. And it was, but I had to look at it as a gift, and that, Okay. Things are moving so fast in our world now. I often say to people, I never like to talk about the pandemic anymore, but post pandemic, it seems like our world is just like so fast. We're rushing around. We're not slowing down. And we're not really thinking about like, who am I and what is my brand? And what do, how can I help people? And what is the feedback right that I'm constantly improving right isn't isn't that what we want to do like get that constant feedback to improve not to become something that you're not necessarily but become even your more true authentic self right with that feedback. And so I think it's great that you gave her the feedback. I really do.

Yoyo 10:03

We don't do it for personal gratification. So even if she hated me in that moment, I'm hoping the law in the long haul on reflection. She'll say, I should adjust.

Kasia 10:13

Yeah. And she'll be thankful for it later. She really will. She'll think about it and be like, wow, that was great. Okay. and then again, like this conference, we had many great speakers and, the audience really, I think, walked away very inspired and motivated, but it also gave them great tips around, branding, positioning themselves, how to really break free of like old social norms and, really create the one was, about, your roots, right? And how we're born and, we're not born like we are today, right? It's a learned thing, right? And so we can unlearn things. especially when it comes to, like, criticisms about ourselves or negativity or, how things should be versus, I'm trying to think of a great example that she talked about the speaker, Amanda McPherson was the speaker that I'm speaking about. She said, girl, you need to get your roots done. And, again, it's about looking at. Yeah, how you can shake off those things and really understand and who you are authentically. So anyhow, I totally believe, feedback is definitely a gift and as hard as it can be, we just kind of have to suck it up. And, I, as I say to people, we can do hard things,

Yoyo 11:21

a sister of ours, who's. Being, announced in cybersecurity as being one of the major, award winning leaders, she put a post up and instead of it being about her, being in this wonderful position, she wanted to call out other sisters in cyber and say, look, we're all making a mark. We all have a place. We all have a voice in this industry. It's finally a place now where I can see cyber definitely being. to a degree predominantly women because of the way they think, they think in a certain way. And I think it's nice to see women feeling comfortable in a cyber seat. And I, I don't know this woman, but I was so impressed with her, her post that I said, congratulations, cyber sister. And she said, right back at you, cyber sister. And I just thought, this is amazing sisterhood. And clearly, Lead Her is an amazing event. I think I commented on Brittany Galley's, post to say I wish I was in, it's times like this that I wish I was in America, but I, I can't come, it's a long way. And sorry, but I have to fly business class now, I just can't fly economy on board.

Kasia 12:30

And it's very

Yoyo 12:32

expensive. So I'm thinking, I probably need to earn an awful lot more money before I can make more than one trip to America, every year. But. Look, it's nice to get the women together, but what are the common issues do you think coming from lead her on both a positive note and on a challenging note that you picked up from this event? Oh, wow.

Kasia 12:53

Okay. Love being able to see Brittany. Brittany and I kicked off the event together, so always loved spending time with Brittany. what I will say is I think I, in a, the event overall was very positive. I think there was a lot of, really great feedback about the time spent. There were over 400 women there. We were, Brittany and I were talking like we would love to see there be 800 to a thousand next year in Detroit. I think, we, as women sometimes, I know I can speak for myself, I always want things to happen immediately, right away, and not everything happens on their own timing. So I think, one of the more kind of spicy things that happened is, there was a topic on allyship, right? And it's really important, I think, for, And not just women, but underrepresented, communities that to have that support and really we're on this mission right to diversify the industry and by the way, and our world right at the and change societal norms around what you should or shouldn't be, right? And I think, at the conference, we had a lot of great inspirational talks. We but I think there was one where, and this isn't to criticize anybody. I honestly, I respect people's opinions and their right to have an opinion. There was some commentary about, An allyship, a male allyship panel that, that got a little spicy. and I think these men were attending the conference because they want to help. They want to be an ally. They are an ally. Right. And they were talking on the topic of male allyship and the role of that in security. And, my feedback once the commentary was made, there were some commentary made about, mansplaining. And a mansplaining, diversity and allyship I just said, Hey, we're on a mission. It's not gonna happen overnight. it is an opportunity for us to continue to as women in security to, show our brilliance. lead the way, lead by example, and really, as we go along, I think the comment was, it's not our responsibility. Why is it our responsibility to show men why women matter in security? It's everybody's responsibility at the end of the day, right. And I think We need to just keep moving along. The change is happening. We're seeing it more and more. I'd like to see more of it. By the way, I'd like to see more senior leadership roles for women and security open up. There are some companies that continue to see them hiring men and those jobs aren't being posted out there. They're, every other week, a new guy is getting a job, right? And are those, are those companies opening up paths for Senior leadership positions for women in the industry. There's so many in that room. I mean, I just was in awe of everybody there. Like I, you know, there were technicians, there were marketing people, salespeople, executive leadership. I mean, it's just so many. And I think we just have to remember we're on a journey and we got to work together. And every ally. that we can get, we should take and we should wrap our arms around them and bring them along on the journey. And, and they're going to bring more people too. And I kind of joked at the end of the smartest men in the industry are in that room right now, right? Because they all made the effort to join in and attend and take time out of their schedule and including the new leadership of ASIS, right? And I know Cy was there and Bill Tinney was there as well as Don Erickson from SIA. And you know, I think they all took time out of their schedule to, to be there. And there were other men that, that were there supporting their teams, you know, that, that brought full teams of women to the event and took time. So let's just keep doing that. And there will be FOMO at the end of the day. Other people are going to see this and like, wait a second, what's happening? You know, because we really all make each other better and, but we are on a journey. So do we need to see more improvement? Absolutely. Is it improving? Absolutely. Yes, we're seeing change. We're seeing it. Do we want to go faster? Absolutely. but let's just keep at it. Let's not give up. when they say when it gets hard, that's when you really lean in, right? When it gets hard and that's where we're at, I think.

Yoyo 17:00

I think plenty of people are want to lean in. And I want to acknowledge the men who want to lean in as well, because I told you that I follow Lee Chambers on LinkedIn and to your point about mansplaining, he's come up with some other words. And when I, when he put this post up, I was like, look, I hadn't even heard these words before. Manterrupting obviously mansplaining. Then there's monopolizing. Monopolizing man slamming, man spreading. Oh, we know about that one. Unpleasant in the underground. I always kind of put my hand on the knee and move it away. Do you know what I mean? I don't need to have the man spreading knees wide open thing on the bus or the tube. Keep eating, I always think is funny. Somebody somewhere has gone like, oh there's a man splaining and he peaching. I just think, I see a little bit of humor around this and man skews. Man skews is another one. Look, he's. He does invite debate, Lee Chambers, but it is difficult for men to stand up and be a voice in a fairly hostile space around, yeah, as we, we can see, you haven't got to go far on LinkedIn to see a hostile space around. to all the men who do lean in for a great, respectful, positive culture around gender, we're very grateful for that. Look, there's something else we have in common apart from being in a male dominated environment. We are both. Were announced, if you recall, in December in the 2023 International Security Journal Influences Edition for the top 30 global security influencership.

Kasia 18:40

Congratulations, Kasia. Thank you too. It's such an honor, like, and you mentioned something about like security sisters and recognizing I'm also a judge for the Cybersecurity Woman of the Year. Oh my gosh, going through and looking at all the women and all the recognitions and for that. And then just being on these lists with other security leaders is so it's just. It's really an honor. And that's the thing I love about the security industry is the recognition. They want to show people and kind of bringing out leaders in the organization. To me, what it does is it really creates an opportunity to use your voice, right? It's not about like somebody said, made a comment to me about women getting on lists and it's just about them being able to show themselves and, being able to, talk about themselves. And I was like, what's wrong with that? Right? There, there are a ton of amazing women out there and, half of the world are women and, why can't we stand up and show that we got recognition? Why is it okay for a man to post about himself getting recognition? He gets applause, but when a woman does it, we're just bragging or we're, we're overstretching and showing our recognition. What is wrong with that? Right? Like there's something wrong with that picture for me. And so I appreciate the recognition in the industry of, all different people, right. That are helping bring this great industry forward. Oh,

Yoyo 20:08

I was a judge also for the UK Oscars last year, as well as a couple of others last year. I think I was very busy. I think I did four judging events last year. And I certainly got to get a good idea about the contributions people are making to nominations. And I spoke also in podcasts that I think women are less inclined to nominate themselves. And I remember Martin Gill, we all know Martin Gill. Hello, Martin. It's about time we got him back on the podcast, actually. But he said to me, and I remember where we were at the U S naval club or something like that in London by the Thames, and he was holding a glass and he's very sincere. And he said, some, you've got to be in it to win it. Yeah. Yeah. And I always remember that. And so when I looked as well, cross board about nominations, it was startling to me how It wasn't very diverse. I wanted to see more people of color. I wanted to see a mixture of people of color, not just a black representation or Asian representation. There was a very low input to women's representation in nominations. And yeah, I just think I always advocate this and there's no better place than having been a judge across all four critical events in the UK to turn around and say, come on, women. There's no excuse now, and I remember the Lifetime Achievement, it was the same names, some of them incredibly great contributions to the industry. Don't get me wrong, but no women in the Lifetime Achievement. And then somebody said to me, well, maybe we haven't got enough women coming through yet. And I said, we don't have to be 67 before we can go in for a Lifetime Achievement Award. It's about what you're doing. Yeah. Where's the misconception that you've got to be like at death's door

Kasia 21:53

but

Yoyo 21:53

you don't have to be that far gone to be recognized for a Lifetime Achievement Award. And I think. Sandy is a classic example, she's still young and she won, didn't she, for the U. S. OSPAS last year for lifetime achievement. What can we do, Kasia, when we're seeing amazing women's contributions, what can we do to encourage them to nominate more?

Kasia 22:16

I think we put a stake in the ground right now on this podcast, like women, it is okay to nominate yourself. It's okay. You are your number one champion. Nobody else. You are your number one champion. And it is okay for you to nominate yourself. I nominated myself for one thing. I haven't nominated myself for other things, but I should take my own advice. Right? So recently I did for something because I was like, Hey, wait a second. Okay. Like. I'm doing some things here that might be pretty cool and relevant, so I'm going to go ahead and do it, right? And I did. And I I don't know the outcome of that yet, but either or. I, it was the courage to do it, because I, I felt uncomfortable doing it. Okay, that was the first time I did that. But I do think it's okay, and I want us all to feel like we are, we need to take care of us. And yes, and be proud of what we're doing. Be proud that you are making a difference and know that. Other people you're helping other people when in in your work. And it's okay. So go and look at some upcoming recognitions, nominate yourself and see how that feels right to look at yourself and say, Hey, I'm doing some really good things. And I'd love to, get that recognized. and even if.

Yoyo 23:28

Somebody else gets it. You've got that experience. You're going through that process of sticking pen to paper or typing out. Actually, look what I achieved this year. Like, I didn't realize how many articles I have published. I didn't realize how many podcasts I produce. I didn't realize how many award ceremonies I was a judge of and you see it all down in paper and you think, Whoa, yo, yo, no wonder you're so freaky busy. But there's no harm as well if you don't. Win in doing that scene from Joey, where he doesn't win the award and he bangs his fists on the table and he goes, I It's the funniest thing ever. And then clap, and obviously when you see the fellow compatriot, who has won, give them a good congratulations, pat on the back. But ultimately, I think, if you don't do it, no one else will. And there's plenty of other people who will nominate themselves. So,

Kasia 24:21

what's the problem? Other women, right? It's okay to nominate other women. I know many women that do, by the way. So it's going through the, Cybersecurity Woman of the Year awards, I had to go through 300 plus nominations, go to their LinkedIn, go to their websites, look at their papers. I mean, it was a really deep process. And Carmen Marsh Thank you. Runs that award and several lions and she, it's an amazing process. And so to see, like, there were some women that got. Eight nominations, right? And there were some women that got none. There were some women that nominated themselves. and I had to kind of remove any judgment of that, it wasn't about the number of nominations. It was about the quality of the work you're doing and the impact on the industry. And, but I was so impressed with the ones that did nominate themselves. It really stood out to me that they were proud of themselves and they were being courageous and saying, Hey, I would love to, I would love to be recognized for this, you know.

Yoyo 25:23

Well, you were also, as I say, on the front cover of the ISC West edition of the International Security Journal earlier on this year, which came out, and I saw you, Kasia, and I was like, there's a little bit inside of me that had a little, Professional, woman's crush, because I thought, and I think I told you this personally, I've never seen that journal look so good. It was like cosmopolitan meets. security industry and you looked absolutely stunning and professional and awesome. We don't often have a bit of glam, do we, on the front of the security journal. So note to security journal to James. Please put more hot women on the front cover. I'm sure you'll get more readers. But congratulations on that. How was that for you?

Kasia 26:14

I was really honored. I mean, the team at Security Journal Americas and International Security Journal, they're doing a great job. They put out a lot of great work and working with the community. I was really honored to have my picture on there. I didn't, I was trying to give them something else to put on there, but. They were like, no, we'd like this one. And they, I really got to give props to them. So it was great I, I know I've mentioned before to you, like somebody asked me if it was an AI generated picture and

Yoyo 26:41

rude, right? Yeah. I feel

Kasia 26:47

like that's where we're at right now. Like everybody's questioning the realness of things. And, you know, you think about like online and social media and people putting Different filters on and, some people will post and say no filter today. Right. And I tend to not do filters, by the way, just because I do want to be authentic to myself. Right. I don't want to put something out there. That's not me. But it's no judgment of people that do. But how I responded to that was I said, Oh, thanks. It wasn't an AI generated picture. It was a real picture that was taken in a studio by a professional photographer. And they said, Oh, wow. And, you know, I'm sure there was a little bit of touch up that the gal did, but nothing major. So, you know, and they said, Oh, wow, it was a really great picture. So they sort of like started with the AI thing and then they ended with a compliment and that I, you know, I just. I just, it just sort of went in one ear and out the other, so I wasn't too upset about it. I think that's just the world we're living in right now. It's that we're just questioning the realness of things. And

Yoyo 27:47

yeah, you

Kasia 27:48

Don't you feel like we're buried in fake stuff all the time though? Yes, yes. And I, I was at a a ladies event in my neighborhood. A neighbor had, you know, a bunch of us over for wine and, and snacks and cybersecurity came up. And these are women, none of them have ever been in cyber security. And so, of course, I got all excited because I was like, oh, we're going to talk about something I know about. And and we were talking about, like, scams and fake things and getting fake, fake text messages and fake emails and, or going online they were talking about a woman that got scammed out of thousands of dollars because she got this email and then she clicked on it and then they tried to get the money from her. And, and then that led me to talk about the movie beekeeper, right? And Jason Statham love him. But you know, it, it's there is a lot of fake out there, right? And we're trying to figure out like what's real, what's not. I think It's just the world we're living in, and I just don't know, you know, as a speaker at ISC West for the Women in Security Breakfast, she said, the genie's out of the bag, like the bottle. It's out of the bottle, and there's no slowing it down, right? So, AI's, you know, You know, really driving that. And and I think people are just questioning, like, and they need to question, by the way, is this real? Is it not real? But not my picture. My picture is real, people.

Yoyo 29:06

And honestly, I was taken aback by it. And I was, I couldn't have guessed it. Being a bigger cheerleader for you when I saw that you're, you're currently bless you. You're currently well, you've been with Intel for like 24 years. What a role, but your role is so, I've got to read this out. You're the global senior director for physical and cyber security ecosystems. Now, really to a lot of us in cyber security or physical security, that would be like. Woman, you are doing two jobs there, really. Cyber security convergent. Convergence has got to be really important for you in your role, right?

Kasia 29:41

Absolutely it. You know, I think for me, the convergence piece has been I'm learning about it. Every day I'm learning about what does that mean for the industry, right? I got into the physical side through some of our work in in the video market, right? And video security market, and I, You know, then I started learning about cyber and it was like, okay, wait a second. These two are really coming together and the expansion of IOT and it really accelerated during the pandemic for me to learn more about cyber security and the impacts on physical security and why that mattered and then go a little deeper on, you know, NIST and CISA guidelines around physical cyber convergence. And so, yeah, some days I feel like I'm doing two jobs and I'm sure my boss would say I am. But but I think they, they really, they do go hand in hand. So, you know, and you know, I was at RSA in San Francisco this year and, you know, I was also at ISE West, right. And both events, like I noticed at ISE West, there was a lot more cyber discussions happening, a lot more convergence. We were noticing in some of our sessions that we were teaching Antoinette that you know, she said, Hey. A couple years ago, there would have been five people in the room, and instead we had 100 people in the room talking, listening to us talk about convergence. So there people are starting to listen. Like, okay, why do I need to care about this? Why do I need to know about it? And and really, it's because the expansion of the Internet of things, the devices, the number of sensors out there, you know, the threats that can, you know, the, the threat landscape is really expanded. And and then you take. The vertical landscape. So understanding that really puts you ahead of of the curve. And then at RSA, I saw several access control companies there from the physical side. And so you're starting to see that that blend. And so it's funny when I was at RSA, and I would say I do both physical and cyber. They're like, oh, oh, Oh, that's interesting. You know, but if you think about it, some of the largest cyber companies have an OT focus. And so, you know, we're really, you know, for me, my role is really to help orchestrate the ecosystem, our strategy of how we go and drive technology adoption with those partners and help them sell those products. And then, of course, I'm scaling those throughout the industry. So a lot of my job is. One, educating the market, educating the industry on solutions that are coming. You know, I talked six years ago about inferencing at the edge and now look at it's here, right? A lot of, like, small language models and AI are really, it's happening at the edge. That's where the majority of it's going to happen, the processing. And, And so it was coming. So I talk a lot about kind of where things are coming, but then in cyber two, it's moving so fast. It really is just moving so fast. So being able to educate, look at new solutions, technologies, bring those to the market, also enable the art. Our ecosystem with the right technology at the right time. And then of course, helping the, I love helping our customers go to market and scale their solutions. So, you know, it's a really exciting time, but it's also a fast moving time and keeping up on that. And a lot of our, a lot of the community, like think about integrators, you know, 85 percent of the world's integrators are more small, medium integrators. They're not supersized and huge integrators, right? So they don't have. A ton of resources, and they're now having to keep up with all these, AI and cybersecurity and regulations and compliance and privacy. And there's all these things. And my role, is really evolved to help in the community. And then, of course, deploying these solutions, in a way that helps solve business problems. So it's an exciting time, but lots to learn, like, literally, I'm learning something new every single day.,

Yoyo 33:28

You talked earlier to NIST. NIST is the National Institute for those of you that don't know the National Institute Standards and Technology based in the States. It's basically a cyber security framework that helps businesses of all sizes better understand, manage and reduce their cyber security risk and protect their networks and data. You talk about CISA, CISA is the Cyber Security and Infrastructure Security Agency. Little bit like our British version of the National Cyber Security Centre. So for those of you, That I feel you super curious about this kind of stuff. I am presenting at GSX in Orlando this year on a special kind of track. So if you were in physical security and you want to move into cybersecurity, Kekistan and I, who works with TikTok are going to be literally delivering a presentation on designing cybersecurity. So if frameworks bars your tower. And you want to protect data and and you want to be a part of the new army. Then you want to come along to that session. I think

Kasia 34:25

I will be there.

Yoyo 34:27

I'm super passionate about this because I know anybody who walks through that door and wants to understand how they can build a track into cyber security. I know that they're already halfway there. But it's, it's doing it and it's knowing the best way of doing it. You don't have to be a technologist. You don't have to have a degree. I don't have a degree and I'm in cybersecurity leadership. The security professional who's worked in the physical space has already got risk assessments strengths. They're already focusing on disaster recovery. They already know incident management. They're already investigators. They're already deeply curious. They're already risks esque experts. That's

Kasia 35:04

Yeah, risks,

Yoyo 35:05

risks, risks, experts risk experts. And, and so therefore, in my personal opinion, they have 80 percent of the skills.

Kasia 35:14

It's a desire. I think. You know, Antoinette King and I published an ebook on physical cyber convergence and yeah, and we, I started learning from her. Basically, I picked up the phone and was like, can we talk physical cyber convergence? And we just kind of started talking about it. I was like, let's, let's do an ebook together. And I learned a lot throughout that, but, you know, you think about the advantages of even knowing. I know some technicians might say, well, I don't need to know about that in my job. Well, why not? Why, why not? You know, what happens if that camera that you're setting up, for example, is not following the organization's cybersecurity standards and protection? And oh, by the way, what are the privacy elements that you're putting in place on that? And, you know, like, there's all these things now that you have to ask. And then, oh, by the way, RFPs are now going to start to ask you what is your AI posture, what are your privacy guidelines and, and policies, and then, oh, by the way, what is your cybersecurity posture and policies, procedures, processes, protections et cetera. And the contracts are going to get longer and longer, right? I spent a bunch of time with a cybersecurity lawyer a couple weeks ago. At a at a CrowdStrike event and I learned so much from her in the work that she's doing in the, the legal space with insurance carriers with companies that are looking for risk mitigation you know, around cyber breaches and things like that. And you know, so we're, we're all in it together. I'm starting to. Since like the security world will not just be cyber, it will be physical and cyber. It's just, it's going to have to be, and there's so many, so many sensors out there in the IOT that, you know, we, we need to protect those and and they are they are vulnerable today. And the bad guys know it, right? And it's just a matter of time, you know, for them to figure that out. So I think. You know, practitioners, you know, thinking about like convergence as a defense, right? We talk about like, how do you create layers of defense? That's exactly like a start of it, creating a layer of defense. It also helps you bolster your return on security. Investment, right? So when you're trying to get more money for security capabilities, it helps you to bolster your, your, return there. And then, of course, like your strategic alignment, right? Having that risk and threat management capability is really, really important. And especially to companies now that CEOs and boards are being held, held liable for, cyber security incidents, right? And are responsible, I should say so I think more and more, you're starting to see this change in physical and cyber coming together. So it's kind of get on the train now, right? Don't wait. Don't watch from the sidelines, right? Because AI is only advancing that, right? You think about. AI is really advancing that. And when you talk about cyber, physical, AI goes along with that.

Yoyo 38:02

I had a bit of an epiphany today, and I don't know if this is an epiphany. I, I, I know, I know. And I wasn't on the toilet, but I did have an epiphany. We were talking at work about how to reach number of different types of generations with technology, i. e. user, user UI. And I realized there was a huge gap for AI in this space. And it might mean that I'm either super clever when I tell you what I'm going to tell you, or that someone's going to say, someone's going to say, dude, seriously, this is so going on right now. You are so behind, but I think there's a really great way to use AI and UI. Because for those that don't know what UI is, it's user interface. So it's the clever people. Actually, my brother does this. It's the clever people who design how we use tech. And you can tell if you've ever used a Unix based system or SAP that's not being designed with UI, but when you pick up, it's being designed by an engineer. And in, in like most payment systems are still Unix based and really clunky and really dull. But when you pick up your mobile phone, a lot of UI has gone into an Apple phone sample, because it's the smartest phone. And then on top of that, I started to think, how are we reaching different generations? You know, working in travel and tourism, for example, you've got, Customers that can be, you know, 18 years old to 79 years old and they're not gonna use tech in the same way. And UI in its traditional form is not gonna relate to those generations in the same way. So I thought maybe AI now can be used with UI so that the technology you are using knows what your technical currency is. Because they're going to know your aptitude to using text. So if you're dealing with somebody who's 69 or somebody who's 39, the way that the AI can interpret who you are very quickly can determine how a product can be pitched to you, or how you can book a holiday, for example, or how you can get your car booked in for an MOT. i. e. the AI has picked up that you are not really very tech savvy But it's going to support you through that process to help you get the service you need. But when it realizes you are tech savvy, it's going to be intuitive enough to give you what you need faster. I see that happening. Have you heard that before? Like, am I special?

Kasia 40:30

No, yeah, you are very special. Oh, thanks. Thanks so much. I know you were probably thinking about that on the, the wine podcast right? Yeah, yeah, we don't talk about the podcast here. I, I love, I love that so much, but you know, so, I am not a UI designer, but I totally agree with you. I think there were some conversations this week at the security lead her about multigenerational, you know, there, there are differences, right? As the younger kids tend to know about more technology, they tend to be much quicker with it with their phones. And, I still, like, Cobble through my phone. Like, why isn't it working this way? For me, the biggest thing is like, it just needs to go faster, you know, and and so I do think that somebody has to be thinking about that. I honestly, it has to mean if you think about all these automation and tools that are being created and, all these companies that are providing services, whether it's the airlines or, to your travel example, they're, you know, They have all these models, right? Enterprise models that they can develop and start to get, you know, and and train those models in order to create more automated services, right? For customers and customer experiences. So, but I think the multigenerational thing is a really interesting topic and, If you look at the different the different generations now coming in it is really, it's amazing to watch. And then the topic at, at security leader was also about how to deal with multi generational, like in the workplace which is all other topic. But AI, I think. I agree. I, I hope it does that sooner rather than later.

Yoyo 42:09

I also struggle that I think automation is going to be used to get rid of humans. Sorry, I don't, I don't want to be so direct. Deliberate to remove humans from a service delivery, because like, even when I booked a a flight with KLM and I had a great experience as a customer the seat was very nice. Thank you very much. The service was awesome. Thank you very much. Everyone, the plane got me there alive. Thank you very much. I think we should also be grateful for that. But when I needed to print my invoice to submit my expenses, all I had was an automated process. And it did not support me in the way I needed to be supported in the after service area. And I'm thinking, where's the human I can just ring up and say, Hey, can I, how do I, how do I, you know, I'm quite tech savvy, but when I'm looking at something for a long protracted amount of time, there's no one to call. There's no contact us. It was like, it just makes me start. It makes me start to become a bit hostile. And I'm thinking of, we've got an, or, and then you see cost, costs, cut, say, cost savings. You see, cutting the human out of the field. And I think the companies that emerge will be the companies that still have that human factor in an age where there's a trend to automate. That's my prediction. What about yours?

Kasia 43:26

I know my generation probably wants that human factor. I still want it. Like, health care is an example. My health care provider is a large hospital network in Southern California. It's all on an app and it drives me insane. I just want to talk to a human. I just want to call. that's my generation. but the next generation behind me, or even two or three aren't going to care. They're going to do everything online. and so I do agree. Like, I think companies are going to need to take into account that generational service level of, okay. 80 percent of my customers are over 50 years old. Therefore they're not as tech savvy right now. So I need to help them through this. I think they need to look at that, but we'll see, companies that definitely are driven by revenue and, and I hope many are driven by customer experience. But I will say the job thing is interesting. People assume that. Jobs will be jobs will be replaced. They'll be, they'll go away, right? The reality is, is jobs, yes, there will be some jobs that go away, right? Because they will be more automated in nature, and that's simply the way of the world. If you think about jobs long ago, and, making an automobile is way different than it was, You know, 50 years ago, right? And many of the jobs that perhaps at that time were in an automotive factory. Some of those have probably been replaced by technology and robots right now. The difference is, and I'm not an automotive manufacturing expert here. I'm just using that as an example. But then you fast forward to today and, I think the job creation For AI will be really interesting because it's going to give a challenge to the world that, hey, you're, it's important for you to upskill. And I think it also affects like a certain generation too, right? It really does. The younger generation, I think they're going to see this. They're going to live it. They're going to breathe it. They're going to understand and adapt. And they're all kind of like, how do I work in this AI world? So they're understanding the technology. Someone like me. I'm older. So, I'm seeing like, hey, there's going to be new job creation. So do I go in upscale? Right? Do I learn more about AI? Do I get a certification? Do I start to learn something new? And I think it's kind of a bit of a challenge. It just depends on that. what generation you're from, but it's going to create more jobs than it's going to get rid of. That's for sure.

Yoyo 46:00

I always make a point of saying, you know, I talk to the coolest people doing this podcast and all I want to do is share what I'm learning with everybody else. Right. So this is great opportunity. And I always say to people, they say, when people say to me, well, you're so smart. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't really feel like very smart. Like when I go to work, I feel like I'm the dumbest person in the space, but that's okay. I'm learning outside my comfort zone. But talking about being outside comfort sayings, I think being mentored is really important. And I think everybody who is keen to develop in their career should consider at points having mentorship. I know that you've had mentors. I've had mentors, great mentors. They are like the weather, they come and go. They're there for a little while, short while, longer time. They are people who can just give you what you need for perspective. At the time you might be having a, you might need to troubleshoot an approach to do something, but ultimately it's about learning and developing. And I've never been embarrassed to say I've had mentors simply because they've always worked for really great companies. working for Intel and being at the stage you are at in your career and congratulations, by the way, an amazing career track and you're clearly, even being with a company that you have been for so long. What do you say about mentorship?

Kasia 47:19

I want to make it clear to everybody. I started Intel when I was 10. Early, opportunities, it's so funny. like younger generation workers, I, they'll say, I'll meet them at Intel, younger kids coming in for internships and things like that. And they're like, well, how long have you been here? I'm like 24 years. I was like, Oh, that's cool. like the responses is like, Ooh for me, I never expected to be here this long. I really didn't. I, I love Intel. And I think we do have an amazing future there. There's a lot going on in the market right now, especially AI. I think. for me, I've learned so much. It's like working in a big company is like you can change different roles over the years. And so with that, I've had really good mentors and who have guided me. And ultimately, I was led to a role in security and video security and then now cyber and, and I've had wonderful mentors and supporters both men and women I think one of my favorite lines from a movie is Eat, Pray, Love, when Javier Bardem says to Julia Roberts, you don't need a man, you need a champion. And, and I think that's also what we need in the workplace is you need to find somebody who's going to champion you and do that introduction, open that door and not just mentor you, but. But somebody that's going to actually open a door for you and help you walk through it. Right. And, and that is really important in, in the mentorship journey, I think. So it's looking at both, and, I, like I said, I've had great ones and I've had some really good champions and, I, myself, champion and help others and, want to pay it forward for sure. But, but I love that idea of a champion.

Yoyo 49:03

Sorry, I was just drifting off with, as soon as you mentioned Javier Bardem then. I know we've talked about

Kasia 49:09

Jason Statham, one of my favourites, Javier Bardem another favourite.

Yoyo 49:15

Jason

Kasia 49:15

Statham's

Yoyo 49:15

a little bit too blokey for me, but what you, everything, You got, listen, Casio, you talked to Javier Bardem in a conversation. Don't expect women to just be listening to anything that you say after that. I'm like, what did you just say? Sounded great. But go

Kasia 49:32

grab a bottle of wine, turn on Eat Pray Love, watch it, watch

Yoyo 49:36

Javier, you know. It's great, isn't it? Because she's very resistant to him. In the beginning, you know, he almost is that too good to be true kind of guy, but we don't want to ruin it for anybody who hasn't seen it. But look, it's never hard to fill a podcast with Chuck and it's never hard to fill a podcast with you. What do you see coming up other than GSX this year? What else is on your security calendar, Kazia,

Kasia 50:02

well, we're actually a sponsor of the office at GSX. So, that's where you will see me at GSX. In addition to yo yo session I. Will be there. So please come and say hi. I guess I'm going to be introducing the awards or something like that. I'm still learning but I'm so excited to do that. So that that'll be a core piece. From a security events, I'll be at Black Hat. So if anybody's going to Black Hat, you know, definitely look me up. I'm going there for customer meetings. Also, I always go to security new ground. In New York love, love going there and hearing kind of the latest from the industry and also I take away, like, how do I, how do I help the industry and guide the industry on technology and going forward? And that's pretty much it right now, I think. Oh, and then, of course, I'll be at the Cybersecurity Women of the Year awards at Black Hat and so that'll be there's a gala there. So if anybody wants to go, you can buy tickets for that and dress up in your favorite stuff. I love dressing up. So, but that's pretty much it for me for this year. From a security event perspective. So, but for those

Yoyo 51:12

that have never heard of Black Hat, what's Black Hat? who should be looking to entertain Black Hat?

Kasia 51:18

Ah, Black Hat is an event in it will be in Las Vegas this year. It is really a, a event for security leaders and practitioners. There's, there's a lot of There's a lot of hacking, hackathons. It will be, very specialized around cyber security training for all levels. So you can go and then the main conferences, a lot of briefings that you can go to around, open sourced technology. there's business discussions that happen. There's, social events. There's the hackathons are really cool as well. The red teaming and so you, so it's really a mixture of like trainings and briefings while you're at the event. And then there's just a lot of other companies doing a lot of things to bring their solutions to the event. So it's really different. But I'm really looking forward to going.

Yoyo 52:12

And also, you mentioned earlier that you published the e book on convergence with Antoinette King, Holla Holla to Antoinette. Make sure that you send me the link to that so that we can add that to the podcast bio, and that way people, if they want to have a look at that, they can.

Kasia 52:27

I think there was one other thing I've actually published in June in the security journal Americas published in an article around advanced analytics and insecurity. So feel free to take a look at that. Yeah, give us a teaser. Yeah, really talking about the evolution and use cases, you know, what we're starting to see, we're going to be, we're going to be publishing coming up in August in the International Security Journal, a report we did with Omdia around AI and kind of the install base of sensors, right? Cameras are really becoming sensors. And what are the outcomes that customers are looking for across different verticals like retail or smart cities or? Manufacturing, what did they look for? And so we'll be publishing that in the International Security Journal, worked with the Omdia team in the articles coming up in Security Journal Americas, June was on software advanced analytics, as I mentioned, and just some examples, then in July is on smart cities as well as, Product assurance. And then an example of a product we have called scenescape, which does three D digital twin using physical security cameras. I want to really quickly, talk on the product assurance piece because I I'm really passionate about Helping people understand and why I published it in Security Journal America's product assurance is becoming more important for just like supply chain assurances, right? Those are really important topics in cyber security, looking at that kind of. Supply chain resiliency and protection and, kind of what we call transparent supply chain. But your foundation and I, I, I use it a house example but foundation is really important when you're building a house, right? And you want to make sure you have a very sturdy foundation that's going to hold the house you're going to build. And so I look at a house as like the foundation is product assurance. Product assurance is what security. Is being built into the products you buy. So, If you're buying products from a manufacturer and they can't answer that, I would probably buy from somebody else because in this day and age, you have to be cyber secure and so for us, I'm publishing an article around what Intel does relative to our product assurance and built in silicon security features so that you can feel really good about when you're buying. And making that first decision about hardware and silicon, what it entails down and we're number one in the market around product assurance. And so we published a, there was a a report that was published on what everybody in the, in the silicon market is doing. And, and I always talk to practitioners about like that layers of defense. And so that, that foundation is your first layer of defense, right? And so that. Article check it out. There will be an online version, but you can click through and read the independent report that ADI put out around product assurance. I think that's a great it's an easy read but it's also very insightful. That's a couple of things coming up relative to some publications as well.

Yoyo 55:25

That's great. Send us the links, we'll tap them on. You got it. One 100%. And look, that's what you get listener when you have a class act on the Security Circle podcast, working for one of the world's leading companies. You get even access to great source materials. Casia Hansen, thank you so much for joining us on the Security Circle podcast.

Kasia 55:46

Thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And we'll see you at GSX. See you then for a big hug.