The Security Circle

EP 031 Michelle Russell CEO of the SIA: 'Those Who Don't Comply With The Rules Will Be Held To Account'

• Michelle Russell • Season 1 • Episode 31

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Michelle became the permanent Chief Executive of the SIA in November 2021 and has over 25 years’ experience of working in regulation and regulatory environments in both the public and private sectors. She held the position of Acting Chief Executive at the SIA from October 2020 and before that Director of Partnership and Interventions from January 2020, leading the SIA’s criminal enforcement and regulatory inspection functions. 

Michelle joined the SIA from the Charity Commission where she was the Director of Investigations, Monitoring and Enforcement for over 5 years. She was accountable for its high-risk investigations and compliance work and specialist monitoring, outreach and accountancy functions. Michelle developed national strategies on counter-terrorism, fraud and financial abuse, and safeguarding and sat on a number of cross government and industry groups, particularly on terrorism and serious crime issues.

Before that she held various other operational and compliance roles, and started her career as a qualified solicitor in the private and then public sector.’

 Linked In Profile:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-russell-2938991b/

Security Circle ⭕️ is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers

Yoyo:

Hi, this is Yolanda. Welcome. Welcome to the Security Circle podcast. ifpo is the International Foundation for Protection Officers. If os, we are dedicated to providing meaningful education and certification for all levels of security personnel and make a positive difference to our members'. Mental health and wellbeing with me today is a very special lady. it's Michelle Russell, c e o of the ss i a security industry authority. Michelle, thank you so much

Michelle:

for joining us today. Thank you, yoyo. Thank you for inviting me. Well, and I saw

Yoyo:

you didn't I? For the first time, not so long ago at Spotify headquarters. It was nice to meet you in person. But look, I think a lot of us are very curious when we see women in trailblazing roles. What's led you to the

Michelle:

ss i a'cause you started out in law, I did. And you know, I'm from a very working class family, coal miners in my, uh, grandparents and I. Trained as a lawyer, uh, which I was the first person to go to university in my, uh, family, which was a really big deal. But, you know, ultimately my background and my career took me into compliance enforcement and regulation. And immediately before I joined. The Ss I a I worked at the charity regulator, the Charity Commission for England and Wales. And, uh, that took me on to working, uh, for the s i a and at the ss i a and ultimately into the position that I'm in at the moment as the first female chief executive of the s I A. And congratulations.

Yoyo:

You know, I remember when you were appointed and it was a big thing, you know, and I know that LinkedIn's incredibly good at promoting really good stories of women in positions like the one you are in. What's a C e O do for the Ss i a

Michelle:

Michelle? You know, I have I, I do not take for granted the importance of the role that I play as the leader of the organization, both internally and externally. So as chief executive internally with my. Staff, my workforce, my colleagues of 400 people leading, uh, the direction that we're going in and making sure things work on a day-to-day basis. So managing the organization but also being chief executive, it's about being the leader externally and taking forward the organization. Making sure it keeps pace with public expectations and its, vision and its strategy keep evolving and driving us forward. And, ultimately we are a government public body regulator. And our job is to act on behalf of the public in ensuring public protection through regulating private security. So that's my responsibility, my job, to make sure that we do that. And it's a real privilege that I never, ever take for granted actually. Yo-yo, it's a responsibility I take really, seriously. but a privilege at the same time to hold this position.

Yoyo:

When we met, I remember you explained to me the difference between being a regulator and the fact that the s i a are not a trade body in the sense of how other trade bodies can operate, uh, for their markets. It's not something everybody fully understands.

Michelle:

Would you agree? Well, I think Because of the public nature of what security does. So it's protecting people, places, premises, up and down the country. And of course it's across the uk, it's England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland. Our responsibility is to act on behalf of the public, to make sure that is done effectively and sensibly in order to protect the public at the end of the day. So, It's different from being a scheme which is self-regulating or membership bodies. So I've always got the eye of public protection and what do the public think and expect of regulated security. So you're right, it's a different lens and a different perspective. Yeah. But if we didn't think it was important we wouldn't exist. So the role that security day to day, every day, those 406,000 people that have an SS i a license at the moment, that's record numbers who've come forward to get a license, get trained, get vetted by us doing their jobs day in, day out. I think it reflects the importance of the role that they're playing in order to protect us and protect society every single day.

Yoyo:

That's a lot of people. In fact, if you look at employers with those kinds of, uh, employees, you're looking at very big organizations. It must take a lot of thought to keep pace with public expectations. How easy is that?

Michelle:

So before my time but if you go back to when the s i a was actually created, it was 20 years ago. In fact, it's 20 years old this year. Uh, yeah. In April, 2023. Wow. And back then, In 2023, the SIA was created because there was quite a lot of bad press about security and concerns that the threat to the public and the threat to public protection was actually from people working in security, which is why vetting and training and regulation came in. Now, 20 years later, that's turned inside out, so, Actually it's security that we rely on society relies on in order to protect them. But even in the past two to three years, those public expectations about what security is there to do, what do we expect in terms of standards of behavior, conduct, customer service, as well as doing the technicalities of the job mean that regulation needs to keep up. Security needs to keep up. Security personnel need to keep up. Security businesses need to keep up and also venues need to keep up as well. So I think part of my responsibility as the regulator is to make sure we're always looking ahead to seeing what's coming and keeping a pace with those public expectations. Well, look, that's a great segue

Yoyo:

into my next question. Let's look ahead 20 years though. That's phenomenal. Uh, what's ahead for you? Uh, what is your plans, because it's been three years now, so hopefully you're feeling settled and accomplished at this point, enough to drive forward, uh, an

Michelle:

agenda. What's your plan? So I think most people know and know me and have looked at some of the things that we've been talking about over the last year or so that I have together with the board and Heather Bailey, the chair we've reset the priorities at the SIA so I remember when I first joined,, when I went out talking to people about what the issues were and concerns the licensing system is. It's pretty sound. It's pretty robust, pretty solid. We want to make sure we're making it continually efficient for the customer, for the people who are applying for licenses, but it's not broken. It's pretty good. But actually the missing piece that needed rebalancing is the enforcement side about making sure that those who don't comply. With the rules that are there to protect the public, we're actually doing some inspecting and holding them to account and we're necessary bringing them to prosecution. And I think, yeah. One of the things I'm really. Pleased about is we've already started to inject more resources to do that and greater visibility. So you should be seeing more of my inspectors out across the uk checking licenses, and we've managed to do that without increasing the license fee or increasing the cost. So we've been making sure we're efficient. And effective at what we're doing. So the first change is that resetting of the access more dedication, more priority to being to making sure we deal with compliance enforcement inspection, visibility across the uk. I won't be apologetic for the fact public protection. Is at the heart of this plan going forward. Perhaps it was there a little bit in the background before, but it is front and center that everything that we do is about public protection at the heart of it, and keeping an eye and thinking about things from the public as a stakeholder. I think in the past, maybe the public wasn't recognized as a stakeholder, it was more the industry and other partners that we work with. So that's a change that you'll see. In the way that we talk, in the way that we act, in the way that we think about things. Also, one of the things that you'll see as well and reflected in our new plan is making sure we get that dual position around the work that we do with businesses to improve standards and the work that we do and how we support individuals. One of the things I learned quite early on, Was that the industry isn't homogenous. It isn't the same all over in, it's in different perspectives, different placements, different roles. And some people, even though they're employed by one employer or two employees, there are others who are much more pathetic and move around. So we need to make sure as the SIA is the only constant in the people who move around that we're supporting much more the individual. As well as trying to support and raise standards through businesses. So you'll see that reflected in some of the activities that we're doing going forward and in some of our plans. And the last thing is efficiency and effectiveness. So, you know, the current climate, very mindful. Of challenging conditions post the pandemic. The pressure on businesses is I have got as part of my responsibility to make sure we're continually being efficient, continually being effective, and we value for money in terms of the, what we cost and the activities that we do. So that, that's a flavor of some of the sort of changes as we go forward over the next three years and, uh, implement our plans. I mean, certainly

Yoyo:

if we go back to your point around adjusting the access on, an enforcement, I think that's gonna provide reassurance, isn't it? Does that mean that the public have got a greater opportunity to communicate back when perhaps they see things that aren't right and they can report behaviors that are lower than expectations?

Michelle:

So we definitely want to hear from people who've got concerns about security. One of the things that's in our plans actually is to look at how we interact with the people who do take the time to report things to us. Now there's only a small number of us and we get quite a few. Quite rightly concerns and, uh, pieces of information that we need to follow up. So we're gonna look at what feedback we can either give individually on the highest risk cases, the ones we're taking forward, or more thematically. So that's one piece of. work that we want to get better at feeding, feeding back to the people who we do need to report the concerns, uh, to us so that we can take some of them forward. But of course, we want the right things being reported. So I think there's also something for us there, which is, are we clear about what things. There is for the regulator to deal with and perhaps what things, you know, not for us, they're either for the venues or they're for the security businesses to deal with so we can focus our efforts on the things that matter.

Yoyo:

That sounds great because you are accepting there that this isn't just something you can affect alone. It's about a partnership, isn't it, with the organizations and member, company partners as well. And I guess really when you do see a pattern of behaviors being reported, it enables you to prioritize your resources in the right way'cause it's flagging up, isn't it? Potential areas of risk. And I think having had a. Badge most of my last 15 years I think. We don't want any bad behavior really shedding a light on all the good work that our young ladies and men are doing out there in sometimes quite hostile, horrible environments. So I think anything that you do to stamp out and support the, extinguishment, I love making up words. Extinguishment of bad behavior is always gonna be a good thing, Michelle

Michelle:

I absolutely. And you know, there's going to be a range of different things there, isn't there? There is going to be. Reports of people who should have a license and who don't have a license. Uh, and we want to know about that so that we can consider you know, enforcement action in that there's going to be reports that we get, which are concerns about the behavior of security, industry licensed, uh, professionals now, We would like to say, and we do believe the vast majority of licensed security, a professional, doing a fantastic job. But we also know that sometimes that's not the case. So we do want to make sure that we deal with that, and it may well be, we need to go to the venue, we need to go to the employers to deal with some of those things. But then also we also get reports of violence and inappropriate behavior. Towards security. They do a really difficult job. I mean, you know, this as a frontline license holder. It's really difficult. I've been out there at nighttime economy. I like to go out with my teams, late at night. And also during the day I've been out recently to to see some office security to find out what it's really like. Sometimes they deal with abuse. Verbal abuse in extremity. Although, you know, we do see, uh, reports of people being physically abused or pushed, racially abused, and we need to work with the police to make sure and with their employers to make sure that sort of behavior is also addressed and dealt with. But coming back to your starting point. You are right. It's all about partnership. It's about part. We cannot do our job without partnership with the public, without partnership with security businesses, without partnership with individual security officers, without partnership with the police and other parts of government, whoever role to play. So you'll see that as well actually reflected as one of our themes, strategic partnerships in our plans going forward. And I started

Yoyo:

to see those strategic partnerships develop back when,, employers, were able to manage the licensing process online digitally. There was a big digital transformation piece, wasn't there? I might be before you this Michelle, but I started to see this. Really working and the responsibility of the employer managing the renewal, for example, rather than the responsibility of the license holder, which made the process far more efficient, far more timely in the sense of what was needed to make that process happen. that's a remarkable change. has there been anything else like that I

might

Michelle:

not have seen in the background? So I think what you're referring to is the license managed and license assist schemes, which still exist. And I'm not gonna take any credit for that at all. That was before my time. But one of the things we've done over the last year is you know, and I can understand the frustration for some of the businesses is to organize through business relationship managers so that. Points of contact for each of the a c s companies. So, even if they're not in the license managed or license assist scheme, actually they've got a single point of contact at the S I A who, if they're finding difficulties with getting through an individual license applications or things like that, that we can do. So that's one of the shifts we've made to try and make our accessibility. We can't. Possibly deal with everything, but to try and make it much more systematic, much a little bit easier. And the feedback we've had so far is that's really positive. And people have really welcomed that. The other thing that we've done is through our new stakeholder forum is to engage more systematically and regularly with the membership bodies. So some of the key membership bodies and through various special interest groups. So, I'm really keen on keeping up our dialogue, and two way so we can discuss me messages or things that are coming up, but also we can hear and listen to what's going on in the industry to make sure we're informed and where possible and appropriate. If there are areas or themes that we have two different perspectives or two different sort of interests, but they overlap whether or not we can explore working together. So I think diversity and encouraging inclusive industries is one of those areas, for example, and you've

Yoyo:

segued again into another really good question. I was gonna ask you around inclusivity.'cause we know that there's a huge underrepresentation of women security officers and women licensed badge holders in the industry. Especially when you look at the 406,000 membership. what I know it's not the s i's responsibility to address that, uh, gender imbalance. The gender imbalance exists, you know, in many industries associated with security. But what can the ss i e do to sort of encourage a broader, you know, scope of attracting women into the

Michelle:

industry? So you are spot on. If you think about the role of security, about protecting not just property, but also protecting people actually making sure that it's reflective. And inclusive of the people. It's actually protecting its customer base, if you like. And you are right that there's, at the moment there's about 10 or 11%. It was hovers between those, uh, figures of those 406 thousand ss I a license holders that are female mustn't forget that in other areas. It's pretty good. So in terms of ethnicity, Uh, mix. It's much closer to general population levels, but it is something that's not our responsibility. But we do want to support the industry in initiatives. So I'm really keen on women in Security society, supporting them. Really keen in women, awards women in security awards. Really keen on highlighting and. Trying to shine a light on. There are some really good, strong, fantastic females that are out there. And I don't just mean sort of, you know, managers and leaders. When I went out a few weeks ago, I met a lady called Tyson. She was fantastic. She was professional. She was You know, smiley, she put people at ease. She was on it. And, you know, having some of those sort of skills, which, you know, you know, this security's not just about intervening at those pinch point times where you have to physically cut in. But also about trying to anticipate where the risks are. Look out for people who are in vulnerable situations, spots suspicious activity. And, you know, females as much as males are fantastic at that. So anything that we can do to encourage pipelines to be conscious about things that perhaps are blockers in training or in getting licenses to really open, open that up. And as I said, it's not just on diversity in terms of gender, but I was really delighted that for the first time last year, the industry representatives came together, uh, to represent themselves at Pride in London. So, you know, that's fantastic. So it's inclusivity in all of its forms. Yeah, and

Yoyo:

It's a journey. You know, we, revolutions doesn't happen overnight, does it? But. So what did Hiin think when she saw you? I mean,

Michelle:

gosh, she must have been a little bit intimidated, the boss lady coming down. What sort of visit did you do? I. Well, I hope she wasn't intimidated because we were walking around security.'cause I was quite often taken out to the middle of the night, you know, going to bars and clubs and I was like, I want to see security in a different context. So, the city security group in the City of London organized a tour for me to go round in some of my teams. I took two of my frontline team from the s i a out so Brenda, who normally works on in, in, in the, uh, uh, room in terms of processing licenses. And we also took someone from the decisions team out with us so they can actually meet security whose licenses they're actually processing. I think there were a few sort of eyebrows of, uh, expecting me to be an inspector, but actually. No, just wanna chat. What's it like? How did they treat, how did the company treat you? Are you being paid more than the minimum wage? Uh, what's it like? What feedback do you want to give me about how the ss i a is doing? How was your licensing process? Have you done your top up training? And it was great. She Hi Sim in particular, uh, was someone who, as well as doing the office space security, was also doing security in football and sports matches over the, at the weekend in event security. So it was great to have her to see her and to chat to her. Oh, she sounds

Yoyo:

like an ambassador for our industry for sure. The way you've described her there. And it's really super cool actually, if you don't mind me saying to, to know that you go out and you kind of touch grass as they say, and it's important, isn't it? It's very easy, I think, with a job title like yours to feel disconnected or be disconnected, but to get out there and breathe the same air. It must give you a great deal of perspective about what people are doing out there all hours of the day and night.

Michelle:

It does. And also I want to hear things that are not filtered. I think it's important also because, you know, sometimes it's filtered through and filtered up, but sometimes you need to hear it directly from the people that it affects. So I can't do every week. I struggle to do it too, uh, too regularly, but it is important for me to make sure I'm touching base with, uh, different kinds of security and different kinds of situations to make sure that I can have. An eye to how it impacts on the people on the ground, and also when my teams are coming to me, it helps me to ask the right challenge questions on some of the things that we're planning. Yeah. So yeah, I'm really grateful for the time that people give to me actually during the day job to enable me to do that.

Yoyo:

Well, I'm sure that they're really grateful when you go and take the time to visit them out on their night shift, Michelle, because I think that is one of the key things that people who work those unsociable hours, they do tend to lose connectivity to the rest of the world and they can feel very isolated. So, for, so who knows

Michelle:

where you might rock up next.

Yoyo:

This week if polo launches a new app called club. And it's to mark international security officers day. We're launching this new app this week to support members as they prepare for their CPO certification. It was designed in collaboration with urine. The company behind protect UK app. Which has had over 1 million downloads and won lots of awards.

This new app called club. Offers access to the CPO textbook. Almost 200 sample questions along with many other resources and documents. I know. Cause that was my job to upload them. So don't forget to take a look at the F PO club app. Especially if you're thinking about doing the, if post CPO certification. Good luck I

Michelle:

But look, we

Yoyo:

can't have this conversation, not talk about 20 years of the s I A. I mean, it's come a long way, hasn't it? Take us through the journey of the SS

Michelle:

i a. Yeah. So 20 years ago the s i a was created, as I say, because the threat to the public was from, or seem feared to be from security personnel themselves. So people who are putting on their you know, protective arms and, uh, going out and, uh, uh, looking after. Nightclubs or looking after office blocks. So regulation to make sure there is a consistency of training, a consistency of vetting. So, you know, have we checked whether or not people have got. You know, the right backgrounds, cri no criminal backgrounds that would make people unsuitable and a threat to the public. And that started, uh, the sort of life of the ss i a and, uh, people had a license. So I think back in that day, it was getting people licensed was the main focus. Getting them on the system, getting them on the register. Then through time there was obviously the voluntary a c s scheme that was created. My understanding is that, you know, a couple of hundred companies back then then as we've taken our journey through, as things have developed, there was a pinch point when the ss i a might have been. Uh, disbanded and no longer existed. And it was partly the industry that said, no, we want the s i a, we want them because it protects us and it protects the public. And then there was another segue in terms of it, we went digital. So everything was paper-based. Everything was, uh, you know, filling out lots of forms and getting them signed. And uh, actually one of the big moments with the s a, again, I take no credit in that was before me, is it going digital. And, uh, since then it's been refining that process. So, you know, I'm really pleased that if it's a straightforward application, 97% of them go three and five working days really quickly. Yeah, really good. If it's a bit more complicated and there's something that comes up on the criminal checks or things, extra things that need to be done, then we have a 25 working day target for those types of applications. And about 87% of those go through in 25, uh, working days. So for the vast majority of people, Actually, once you've loaded up your certificate for your training qualification or your top up, it should be relatively slick. So I think it's come a long way the s i a in those 20 years, and we've talked about already the plans that we've got going forward to make it even better and to be sharp and to put public protection as it is now right at the heart of everything we do.

Yoyo:

Great staff. I mean, I had no idea that those timescales had been shortened. Uh, that's phenomenal. That's a big piece of work gone in behind that. That's good structure and a good plan, so, you know. Excellent. Look the other thing I wanted to ask you really was what sort of challenges do you see coming up, uh, for the ss i a, uh, you've got a good foundation. You've got the cement between the bricks, so to speak, and a good plan and. What lies ahead in the form of challenges,

Michelle:

do you think? So, that's a really good question. So. I would say that one of the biggest challenges we have is that those public expectations keep changing. Yeah. So nothing stands still. And you look at things like Manchester Arena inquiry, you look at what happened in Brixton. You look at what happened in the Crane nightclub and you know, there's the dependency on good security and what the public. Expect when things go wrong are constantly changing. And that's quite right. I'm not criticizing that and, but I think the call is that both the ss i a and the industry and individual security officers need to keep up with those expectations. Patients. Secondly, we touched on it earlier, is about partnerships. So more and more what we're trying to do is reliant on effective partnerships with the police, with licensing authorities, uh, with the industry, uh, with the public. So, there's only 400 of the s i a working and there's 406,000, uh, licensed ss i a holders. So we need to work through partners. We need the intelligence in order to make sure we're targeting where we put our effort in. And then thirdly, I'd say the current economic environment. You know, the cost of living both for security officers, sometimes it's their second or third job in terms of trying to make ends meet. So really conscious about that efficiency and effectiveness. P C O, which is I. I need to try and keep the license fee as low as possible but be efficient, but be effective to make sure we're also meeting those public protection expectations. So, I think that's quite a few challenges. Yeah,

Yoyo:

I think the cost was reduced somewhat. Uh, I read as well for the, for a period, wasn't it?

Michelle:

We just announced, uh, relatively recently that we're reducing the cost of the license fee to 184 pounds from, uh, the 6th of April. That's in effect a million pounds. So, so we are working to you know, making sure our costs in terms of what it costs to process the licenses to do our enforcement work, to run the, run, the, uh, all of the other work that we do. So, but it's really important that we do make sure that we work to value for money and as efficiently as possible. In a

Yoyo:

climate as well, Michelle, where a lot of prices are going up, you know, to see

Michelle:

The, also, the license reducing is, it's quite bold, isn't it? It is, but it's the right thing to do. Yeah, and we've obviously thoroughly checked and, uh, given ourselves some scrutiny and challenge to make sure that we can continue to meet that as we go through the next three years of our work and our plan, uh, that we've recently published. So yeah.

Yoyo:

Fair point. Well, lastly, really back to you, you know, I talked about this at the very beginning, you know, being a woman in a trailblazing role, do you feel, and I know that this will resonate with a lot of women in leadership positions, do you feel a greater deal of pressure on you as the first c e o of the ss i a to deliver, uh, than you think maybe some of your predecessors

Michelle:

have felt? So it's a really good question. So I definitely feel supported by my team internally. I feel supported by key stakeholders in the industry and government and policing, uh, because we're all ultimately on the same page. I think if you've got a strong mission and a strong direction of travel, which is about public protection, that ultimately unites. You, and it ultimately keeps you on the straight and narrow. But you know, I wouldn't I'd be lying if I said I don't You know, hold myself to high standards and want to do everything at once. I'm quite impatient, you know? Yeah. So I wanna change the world tomorrow and do it all very quickly, and we just can't, I'm not sure we can go at the pace I would love to do. So, I think one of my personal challenges is making sure we're keeping, making progress, but we're not going too fast so that actually it damages, uh, the outcome that we want. So, And also, you know, I am conscious that ultimately we come back to that diversity and gender you know, spread, which is I'm working on protecting an industry of security officers who are a 90%, uh, male, but desperate for us to try and increase the pipeline and get more women in security. So, it gives you a particular lens on things. But yeah. Challenges are always opportunities. Yeah. Yeah, I was just

Yoyo:

saying that earlier. Did you steal that from me?

Michelle:

Thank you so much

Yoyo:

for that. Uh, really very valuable. I had no idea when I first had my SS i a license in 2009 after leaving the police that here we are in 2023.

Michelle:

And I'm talking to you. I mean, what a bizarre. So I would never have thought that, uh, could be possible. Life is rather bizarre and unexpected, isn't it? Oh, it's, life is great and it's fantastic as long as we're moving forward and as long as we're making that difference to public protection then we're all doing the right thing. Look, I think

Yoyo:

you're doing a great job. I think you're doing, I think you have a tough job and I love the fact that, you know, you want to make things move faster, but I guess, you know, life isn't that kind to us in the sense that a journey is a journey for a reason, isn't it? But all the best with all of your initiatives and all of your plans for the future and, uh, and long may last. Thank you so much for your time

Michelle:

today. Thank you Yoyo.