EP 064 Eduardo Hurtado, GeoPolitics Unveiled: Navigating Political Assassinations, Narco Wars, and Border Security

Political Assassinations, Ecuador Executive Protection, ASIS Standard for Executive Protection, Narcos, Organised Crime, Border Crime, Mexico/US Border, Border Security, Asymetric Warfare, Drugs, Extortion,

BIO

Eduardo Hurtado is an experienced professional in strategic security, a decorated war veteran recognized by the United States Army, and a dedicated mentor whose career has spanned the global arena, bolstered by a strong academic foundation from esteemed university academies. Holding an MBA, a BS in Strategic Security and Protection Management, and a BS in Electronics Technology, Eduardo's academic prowess is complemented by prestigious certifications including the Board Certified Protection Professional (CPP) from ASIS International, where he also serves as a Mentor in Leadership and Security Management, and holds positions on the Board Certified Oil and Gas, and Supply Chain and Transportation Security Steering Committee, showcasing his unwavering commitment to professional excellence. With a distinguished military career spanning service in both the Venezuelan Air Force and the United States Army, Eduardo has gained invaluable insights into military strategy, corporate security, and strategic security management. His educational pursuits have ranged from Air Traffic Control to specialized training in Avionics and Apache Attack Helicopter Armament, instilling in him a deep and versatile expertise. As a respected speaker and ambassador in corporate strategic security, Eduardo has made a lasting impact across various nations, immersing himself in diverse cultures, procedures, laws, and strategies. These enriching experiences have honed his proficiency within the Corporate Security Industry, establishing him as a globally renowned security expert. In his current role as a security mentor, Eduardo addresses critical issues such as Corporate Security, Security in the Supply Chain, Crisis Management, and Professional Training, drawing upon his extensive knowledge and experience to provide invaluable insights. Furthermore, Eduardo has authored numerous books delving into highly relevant subjects, including titles such as "Private Security Officer", "The Art of Protecting Under Political Risk", "The Power of Knowing Your Threats – Enterprise Security", and “Geopolitics in Scientific Dictatorship". Currently, he is engaged in research and development on "The Mutation of Terrorism in America". Notably, two of his books have been nominated for the best book of the year 2023 by ASIS International. These publications underscore his unwavering dedication and commitment to disseminating knowledge for a safer world. Additionally, as a security-conscious professional, he has taken the lead in spearheading The International Security Alliance (INSEAL) project, fostering a robust network of security professionals for mutual research and development in corporate security. To contact Eduardo E. Hurtado, please email him at EHurtado@inseal.us.

Security Circle ⭕️  is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers

Transcript

0:02

If you enjoy the security circle podcast, please like share and comment or even better. Leave us a Fabry view. We can be found on all podcast platforms. Be sure to subscribe. The security circle every Thursday. We love Thursdays.

Yoyo 0:39

Hi, this is Yolanda. Welcome. Welcome to the Security Circle podcast. Now ifpo is the International Foundation for Protection Officers. We are dedicated to providing meaningful education and certification for all levels of security personnel and make a positive difference to our members' mental health and wellbeing. Now with me today, it's a very special man. his name is Eduardo Ed. To me he makes his way to the Security Circle podcast via the Venezuelan Air Force, to the US Army, and a number of high profile security companies across America. And he's now a writer and author of several books, one of them being The Art of Protecting Under Political Risk, and the Power of Knowing Your Threats. Private Security Officer is another one and the Cuban franchise, and he's bilingual. Super cool and quite well connected to asis as well. Eduardo, welcome to the Security Circle podcast. How you doing?

Eduardo 1:35

I'm very good. Thank you very much for your introduction. And you said it right, Eduardo.

Yoyo 1:41

I've been practicing rolling my tongues, Eduardo.

Eduardo 1:45

There we go. There we go. Here you're,

Yoyo 1:50

and that's all I know. okay, so look, let's get into geopolitics, and that's the sort of subject around the podcast today. We haven't discussed geopolitics in any depth before. You are a subject matter expert in this area. Can you tell me really how you kind of got into specializing in geopolitics ed?

Eduardo 2:12

it's very important yoyo to understand geopolitics nowadays. You know, there are so many benefits for the security professionals to understand how political risk is working right now worldwide because it will help you to develop new ways to protect your assets. When I say asset, I can say your business people. So many professionals, they say I don't like to talk about politics because it's not my thing. I wanna talk about security. But when you have political risk included in your risk assessment and you find out that anything that have to do with politics can affect your business operation, you need to know about it. And that way you can plan ahead. You can have a better emergency response plan, you can have a better crisis management program, and then your business continuity program will be more efficient and effective. So there are so many good benefits about knowing Geolytics. It's not lytics, it's just geolytics. And I guess you're gonna save a lot of, lot money to your business is you are very aware of that. Many companies subcontract, they outsourced. Those risk assessment for political risk, and it's very expensive. It can cost 50,000, a hundred thousand dollars. And if you have that kind of knowledge, that kind of skills, then you can save a lot of money as well. And also you're better prepared.

Yoyo 3:54

And it's not straightforward, is it? Because there are a number of countries around the world that are fairly unsafe to operate in. If you were to compare a standard, safe, consistent country and then look at the likes of Ukraine, for example, where it's now an incredibly different environment to operate from, and Latin America. So where's your focus at the moment in Latin

Eduardo 4:21

America? Well, Latin America is the thing. What I, what I do or what we do at ws, so we call it strategic security, which is basically, Balancing the security of the security program for any company that we operate. So when we call security balance in one side of the balance, we will ensure that we build or we write the policies and procedures very well. Obviously the training comes after that, and that's one side of the balance. Yoyo in the other side of the balance is security operation, just to ensure that everything that you have written is performing the way you wrote it. But there are some challenges in that process. In order to have that balance, you have to implement what we call management of change or change management basically is implementing the changes in a way that people will not resist. How are you gonna communicate the changes? Because you have to communicate the value of the changes. Why this thing is It's a benefit for the company up front, for the people, because people are afraid to change it. They don't want to change, they afraid of that. So when you implement the change, they will find out many ways to say this is not gonna work. Oh no. And then they start pulling the road in the wrong direction. So you have to be very careful with that. When you master that balance on security policy, procedure training, M O C, or management chain on security operation, then you can say, I had a balance on my security. It's working. You know, it's a day-to-day operation. Now, when you implement the political risk on that balance, that is not policies and procedures, training or security operation. Everything can change from one day to another. So that's when the security managers needs to know political risk, risk assessment in order to mitigate that, those political risks. How are you gonna protect people? On the political risk, especially when you're traveling. If some people, if a company is sending a V I P A C E O or or an employee to a high risk country, how are you gonna manage that? Are you gonna consider, are liabilities, duty of care, executive protection? Are you gonna ensure that your insurance covers special risk, which is basically for kidnapping distortion, or so many other things? What legal consideration or regulatory compliance are you gonna take care how your investments decisions are gonna be if you have to go to a a country with high risk or high political risk? It's not, I'm not saying that you cannot invest in that, but there are some ways that you need to figure it out. Nationalization is a big thing right now. Let me give you an example. In Mexico, they, there are companies that are negotiating their assets with the government in other countries not like that. In other countries, the, the government just take the company, take the asset, that's it. This is mine now. Goodbye. Good luck. Here's your$2. But in Mexico, thanks to the political risk analysis, they were able to negotiate and have an exit strategy for selling the company to the government. Make a lot of profit and everybody's happy. You know, people are happy, government's happy, and, and the, and the company is happy as well. So they don't lose supply chain disruptions is very important. If you had a big company, you had to transport your asset from one side to another side, either locally or domestically. Or international, you had to cross border. How are you gonna protect your assets that you're going into a high risk country or you're bringing from high risk country merchandise into the US or another country? So this long, long term strategy, you must consider special risk, which is political risk as well.

Yoyo 8:35

Where does it go wrong in, in relation to nationalization? What is it that a business can perhaps fail to do that would put them

8:43

at

Eduardo 8:43

risk? Well, they need to prepare legally operationally, there are so many things that you can do, but the protecting yourself with right policies and procedures and, and contracts, NDAs, you name it. There are so many things that you can do. There are some strategics that, that we use. We, we call it dependency. You know, if the government's gonna try to nationalize company, if they had some kind of dependency on your operation, they probably will not do that. There are so many companies in the Latin America that if the government tried to nationalize them, it's gonna be a cows. And they don't want that. They want to control, they want to protect their government system. However, they keep some kind of stress in the company, but they will not put their hands on the company if the company goes down or shut down, due to political risk and their operations is not good, is is gonna create a big crisis. And that will turn into their not into their benefits, is gonna be against them. So they, they keep the pressure. They let them operate under some circumstances, but for the knowledge is it can be done, but you need a backup plan in case that happen. It's not funny, it's a big thing. Your, your nationalization of a big company, it will affect not only the company business, but it will affect people in the company and in the country. Obviously the investment as well. So companies need to be aware of that. If I'm going to any country like Colombia, Mexico Ecuador, Argentina, Venezuela, and, and if there is a high political risk or severe risk how I'm going to plan for nationalization in case that happen. What is gonna be my emergency response plan? Or how am I gonna be dealing with communities with the distortion, with the government local? The, the federal government of that country or whatever it is, is on that country ruling the, the laws legally, how am I gonna protect international? What kind the insurance am I gonna get to protect from nationalization? So it takes a lot of work, but it can be done. So I try to put that on my book just to give them kind of like a sense of how you're gonna protect or what are you gonna face. That's basically my main purpose. This is where you're gonna face, open your eyes and get a critical emergency response thing, crisis management team lineup, and also prepare with insurance that cover any risk of nationalization. And also it gives you the timeframe to ensure that you have a security committee ready for it. So

Yoyo 11:41

let's talk about Ecuador. Ecuador, obviously we know about the recent destabilization due to the elections, and it's fair game, isn't it, that across the world whenever there's a an election there can be a little destabilization, but for some countries where there's a high amount of geopolitical risk, it's a very big potential disruption. What were the businesses in Ecuador do you think preparing for, and do you think they saw the unfortunate killing of the leader, of the opposition campaigning, getting shot? Do you think anyone could see

Eduardo 12:13

that happening? Yes, I saw it and we, we saw it. It's very bad and I feel sorry for the family. He got shot three times in the shot, in, in the head. When we see that case, we can see a lot of deficiencies on the security protocol. Executive protection. Yoyo is not just putting somebody with a gun in uniform next to you. That is a false sensation of executive protection. It takes more than that. Now, I know as is, is trying to standardize the executive protection program so everybody can have an standard on how to do it, right? So in Ecuador, there's a individual who was running for the presidency. He had a lot of threats from the narco traffic. And you must take that seriously and you see what happens, you know? A hit man just came in the other side of the car, shopped him many times, three rounds, came into the head, kill him. So this guy the next guy who replaced The political man that got killed, he was so afraid about, you know, executive protection. So the government put not only to him and assign him a security detail and also to the other candidates because it was, I mean, for them internationally was looking really bad. You know, how are you gonna allow the narco traffic to kill one of your candidates? So, but at the same time that we saw that these candidates had an, an security protection team, their security was very, very unefficient. There are so many holes that, you know, we as a security professionals in the executive protection. Phil, we, we were screaming saying, why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? And, and we want to help. We, we were willing to help them. We offered them help, you know, security advice, security personnel, you know, and but you know, it was in a rush situation. We couldn't help as we wish. But I guess that this international standard for executive protection will be a, a good way to tell people this is the right way to do a police. Follow these standards. It will help you to protect people and avoid this. Unfortunately events. Just looking

Yoyo 14:45

here, ed, I'm looking here. I've got here 10th of August, 2023. Anti-corruption campaigner. Fernando CIO is assassinated after an event in the capitol. And then you've got a local party leader, Pedro Briant. So this wasn't just an isolated assassination, was it? There's been a, a number of different things going on here.

Eduardo 15:08

Yes. Yes. And after that event, there were some shooting events that we don't know if they were related or not to the principal or the candidates, but you know, all the social media was concerned about, you know, another killing. And the elections were yesterday. So thanks God, nothing else happened, I guess, for the narcos was very difficult to, you know, shoot the target at this time. So hardening the target was one strategy that the government use it. Yep. Which is, well it's, there were a lot of holes on the executive protection program, but it worked. You know, at the end of the day, you can claim it like a successful operation if the principal and everybody goes back to their homes in a safe way.

Yoyo 15:54

So let's talk about the narco business. Who has the power then in these countries where, you know, there's high risk, high geopolitical tensions and high potential for instability?

Eduardo 16:10

Well, I don't know who got the power, but they have power. Even if I knew, I may not say it because it's a dangerous thing. So when we talk about archive traffic, we have to think about their financial muscle. You know, they have so much money they can buy anything. They can buy people, they can buy companies, they can buy ance, they can buy security, they can do anything. So when, when you have a, when you have to run an executive protection team to protect a severe principle, they may say, well, this is too expensive. You know, why are you gonna bring me three bulletproof vehicle? Why do I need a, a bulletproof vest? Why do I need counter challenges and advance work? Why do I need intelligence? Why do I need three circles to protect myself? Why do I need 30 protection security officers? Why do I need security officers in my inner circle with firearms? Why do I need a bulletproof umbrella? This is too expensive. Let's start cutting, you know, expenses. So we want to be cost efficient. Well, guess what? Narco traffic. Don't think about money. They can hire three snipers. They can, you know, put explosive, they can do anything. They are not thinking about money. They're thinking about how to kill the target and you must invest in yourselves. So when we talk about this type of thing, I always say, okay, what would be the impact of somebody getting killed? Let's talk about this guy. Fernando vi Vice in Ecuador. What was the impact of him to be a potentially pre next president of Ecuador being killed? Guess what? No. No, he's not gonna be a president. He's dead. Yeah. And his replacement, he, he didn't make it. So if there is a second round for the election, he didn't make it. Period. Let's

Yoyo 18:16

talk about why he didn't make it. He was quite outspoken, wasn't he, in the sense of he was trying to break the trend of the way the incumbent had been managing the country politically, and he wanted to bring about some fresh change. I mean, that's a dangerous business to be in in some

Eduardo 18:33

countries, isn't it? Yes. He didn't have an option. First of all, we're talking about planning here. The strategic security means planning. Where's your plan B? If the principal or number one got killed? What is, what is your plan if the c e o of the company got killed or die? What is your planning if the C F O C O O is not longer with the company, what is your planning? Did you put the c o o, the c f o and c o o in the same plane and that plane got crashed? What are you gonna do? What is your planning? So the same thing with that this political name. What is your planning? First of all, you have to do a risk assessment. I mean, challenging the narcos is a dangerous business, so there was a high risk right there. So, you know, or you have threats that they, that they want to kill you. Where's your plan be? What, what happened? You get killed because that may happen. And that happened actually. So the, the second man on board didn't have chance to do a political campaign. So he had to attach his, his name to the, to the Fernando Vi Jio in order to motivate the people to, to vote for him. So he didn't make it because there was no planning, there was no time, there was nothing. So that's how you fail.'cause you're, you're not planning, nobody plans to fail and many fails to plan.

Yoyo 19:57

So my next question to you is from a, oh, hold on a second. What are some of the most significant geopolitical trends and challenges that are shaping international relations today for

Eduardo 20:10

business, I will say the first one is corruption and bribery. As I said, yoyo. When you have that budget, you can do many things. Political protest, they can escalate into a violent crisis that may affect your business operation. Regulatory changes, it happens a lot. They change a lot. They change the rule of the game, and that will affect directly to your company operations. Nationalization, we already talk about it. Nationalization or, or ation means the government is taking your company no matter what, and you're done. They will get you$1, they will offer you$10,000 for a multi-billion company. And the worst thing is that, you know, in a year that company is not gonna be operating. It's not like they're gonna take it and then they're gonna operate it and they're gonna make it more profitable. No, the idea is to shut down your operation and create a crisis. Trade sanctions. It happens a lot. Coop of a state, it can happen. Military, not happy. And then, you know, doing that national security concerns it will happen if, if all these countries, sometimes they allow terrorism to come into the countries they allow narco traffickers, they allow many other things they. They may affect or they will affect actually the security of the country and the investors that they are doing business in. That country currency ations is, is happening everywhere, and that will affect the way you do business as well. Legal uncertainty or same or uncertainty? Ty? Yeah. Thank you. And the worst thing is that you depend on the government the dependency of the government contracts. You, you had to deal with them. And then does, you know, the bribery comes in the middle of that negotiation. Sometimes they will ask you for money. They will ask you for benefits in order to get you a contract, which is really bad because, you know, it's, it's not for countries like the United States that they have a specific rules about bribery and corruption. Doing business in Latin America and some other countries like that is really, really very difficult.

Yoyo 22:32

Yes. So the Mexico US border has been a focal point of discussions, especially concerning migration and security. What sort of are the key challenges and opportunities that businesses have had to think about in relation to managing border security?

Eduardo 22:49

Well, for us it's, it is a nightmare in the US because opening the borders, good people will come, bad people will come as well. You know, and we don't know in what proportion, but I can, I can show you two examples of, you know, things like that. California is in a state, and New York is another state. When you see what is happening in California, people going into, into the any business, you know, and stealing, robbing, you know, bunch of merchandise and nobody do anything, law enforcement can do anything because there are law that these laws tell that if you still Europe less than$1,000, it's just a minor crime. It's nothing. So the police at one point don't do anything. And how this affect the business, how this affect the community, the the social behavior.'cause people may think, okay, you know, you do it. Justify me to do it as well. You're doing it, I'm gonna do it. So this is political risk.'cause this is just politics. You know, I'm gonna create this and I'm not gonna tell the police to do this. So in the supply chains, many people go into the, the containers when, while they're traveling on the train, and then they opened the containers and they started just pulling all these boxes down and you know, and you see all the train rails, it's just bunch of trash and dirt. But, you know, if I had a company, I'm bringing something from China, and my container got affected opening and all the merchandise is gone, yeah, it's gonna impact my business, my, my operations and, and timeframe as well because it may take time. So I cannot With my clients, I cannot give them what they deserve or what they want in the timeframe they want. So it is, it is gonna create also more instability for me. In New York, we, we have information also that, you know, all these, they call it gangs, but this gang, they may be terrorists insurgency. They're doing also drugs drugs dealing, and also what, what I call as symmetric warfare. When you see the way they operate, it's not just a couple of guys doing something wrong, it's just well organized groups that you can tell they're prepared, they know what they're doing. So are they preparing for something? We don't know or they, or we should be aware. Now, what is the challenge for a company that have a very good reputation in New York or California and they want to protect their asset. The company they're in a mall running a multi-billion business, and then this couple of guy well organized break their window and steal everything. So what is my increase in cost of insurance? Do I need the new insurance? Every time they break the window, I had to pay the insurance more because they, the insurance is gonna increase because I became now a high risk business because I'm in a high risk area. Now, the worst thing is about the jojo is corruption. Sometimes companies that are not doing the revenue or the profit, they may attend to rob themselves. Okay. And this is very critical because, you know, it happens if I had a business that is not doing well and I'm losing money, okay, you know what? I can rob myself and I can claim I can put just a ship merchandise at front, you know, couple of thousand dollars, keep my very valuable merchandise in the back. And then these guys come steal everything. And I will claim a million dollar of loss and they shouldn't gimme$1 million, they increased the policy. Okay, that's fine. I can cover that with a new million dollar that I just

Yoyo 27:01

made. Yeah.'cause I would robbed myself again.

Eduardo 27:04

Yeah. And actually I saw a jewelry store, they get robbed twice a year. And when you see the videos, who guaranteed that? The, the merchandise they, that they took was the most valuable one. Yeah, usually you, you don't do that if, if it is valuable, you keep it in the back or you had a bulletproof something very, you know, strong in your, in your front desk. So, and that opens, you know, the door for corruption and bribery and all these bad things that happen when you have that.

Yoyo 27:37

Tell me some more about asymmetric warfare.'cause I haven't come across that and I'm sure not a lot of other people would have as well.

Eduardo 27:45

Well, asymmetric warfare is a strategic going on in that is used being used in Latin America. Basically when we talk about human rights, if you have a bunch of people protesting or doing something in the city that is causing the security, the, the security forces to go out is security forces used. More power than them. The human rights will claim that they are doing a sexy use of force. But when you talk about symmetric war, warfare is not, it is a force that is not equal. But at the same time, what we see of these guys that are well trained, well communicated, they had a strategic, they had groups. One is gonna break down, one is one group is gonna make the police to be the bad people. and by capturing them, but at the same time, I have another group of media recording that specific steps. And then we have another, Group that is gonna, you know, edit the videos and make it vital on social media. So we're not talking about just a bunch of kids that they want, that are starving and that they want to, you know, wrap some food because they don't get a job, or they need to eat or they need to feed their families. It's something that is well planet and who's financial, who financing them. Who knows, you know. But we have one case in New York that these two individuals a female probably 21, 22 years old with a male they were running around with their car and they have explosive in their vehicles and they were distributed distributing that are explosive with other people in, in the city. Well, the swap team captured them. I think it was the swap team. Well, there was the police and they went to jail. And with that, that's, that is the domestic terrorism, you know, that kind of procedure is, is very illegal. Guess what they, they got fined, I think was$500,000 and somebody paid for that fine. So they, they got out. So when you see that as it's not just two kids, you know, messing around with trying to do some, you know, explosive firecrackers and things like that. It's a very serious business. And that is terrorism, where they're coming from what group they represent? Well, I, I guess the government knows it's just classify, but with the border. We have seen information that people from other countries that they have been accused of terrorism or they are actually in the F B I database as, as insurgents or terrorists, and they are back here at in California, in New York, in other places, and they can be a passive terrorist cells that they can activate anytime. That's very dangerous.

Yoyo 30:52

Right. So my, and I'm quite happy to be naive in this area. You know, really genuinely, I you are, you are the subject matter expert. You know, is, is, is the government managed by the cartels or do the cartels manage the government? That's from a, from a completely naive perspective, how does the dynamic work in these types of countries?

Eduardo 31:15

Okay. I will, I will tell the same thing that I tell people who yourself, in their truth of the criminal. You if you are in the criminal and you got the budget and who's gonna be against you? The government. Right. So you buy them you want to infiltrate the government. Yeah. So you wanna finance somebody. You, you wanna recruit somebody that have the potential to become an a mayor and governor or in, in, or, you know, a police chief or in Yeah. As a president. Gotcha. So if you are smart enough and, and you have the power to buy or the money to buy a tv station, 500 radio stations and start doing the marketing for this specific individual. Yeah, yeah, you will, you will do that now as. How are you gonna prove that it is not really easy, it's complicated, but the first thing that you do in a, in a strategic way is to infiltrate and have your people line up. So when the time comes, you're protected. They, they have the planification process very well and very detailed. So they, they have the plan B, plan C, the backup emergency response, crisis management and, and business continuity programs. They do it, they have professionals on that.

Yoyo 32:44

So what happens where you've got rival cartels both with a lot of crossfire in the middle, a lot of violence, but then they're both obviously trying to get that representation within government to enforce their gender and their agenda, not their gender, their agenda. What happens there and does that happen?

Eduardo 33:08

Well, usually if, if one specific cartel have their, their team members in the government, obviously they will, they will protect themselves. That's why you got hired as a mayor or as a governor or as a, a police chief. You know, that doesn't happen everywhere, but happens, you know, we've seen it. So usually when cartels fight between each other is because they, they want more territory or in the, in this case, in, in the US and Mexico, let's, let's talk about this case when they have like a specific regions that they use to transfer the drugs from one side of the country to another side of the country. So in the side of the US they block that specific area so the cartels can, can pass their daily production. Amount of drugs, you know, or activities because there are human trafficking as well. So what they do is they, they move from their region and they enter into another region. So when they go into another region that is only by another cartel, their cartel have a a goal per day. And if I had to transfer, you know, X amount of, of drug to the other side, and then now I have another cartel going into and kind of like a doubling their amount of drugs going to the other side, it will compromise their business operation. So it's technically a business decision and then they start fighting between each other. And that's very rude. And that will affect the society, the community because they are in the middle of the fight. So the police, they may add or they may not, but they don't have the power, the logistic. To fight again against narco traffic because the, their budget, their, their force is, is, is huge.

Yoyo 35:09

Wow. Okay. So that helps me to understand why the regions become very protective of their own areas. Okay. So let's take a business. I mean, the first business I thought of speculatively was Coca-Cola, because it's a business everybody knows. Yeah. When you're a global business and you have a great brand and it's successful and profitable, how does a business on a global level have to reconsider the way they trade in what would be really hostile territory somewhere that's got a number of different regions, a lot of different cartel management companies, organizations. How, how, what do they do? Do they stay away from it or, or not?

Eduardo 35:54

They should. They should stay away. They must stay away. Are they doing it? Who knows? It's not only just Coca-Cola. It is, it is very important to have the standardization of their security protocols and, and the way they do business, you know, but it's, it's really hard to accuse them of not doing the same thing or, or bribing or paying the bribery so they can operate. You know, I don't blame them if, if you had a, an operation of million of dollars in a region and the only way to, to do business in that region, you have to deal with some political commissions. Who knows? Is, is depending on the company code of ethic, the way to do business, or how are you gonna manage the political risk with the government? Then the problem is, what happened with the government is, is a criminal. How are you gonna deal with the criminals and the regular criminals and the corruption and the political crime? Because if, if you had those scenarios, it's very difficult to deal with that. I'll give you an example. In, in Mexico there are so many cartels. They, they want to force the company to give them money that's distortion or they will not allow the company to do business or operate. And that's those specific areas. So, and this is the truth, this is happening. So what the company does is, okay, let me do this. I'm gonna create a new union, and then I'm gonna hire these guys. I'm gonna pay them$20,000 a year. They're gonna allow me to operate. So I can, if, if I do my a risk assessment, I can calculate how much, how much I lost every time they block the road or the entrance of my company, I may be losing$1 million per day. So I rather hired them as an employees, as a union or something and try to cut a deal with them as an employee and pay them 20,$20,000 a year. And I save a lot of trouble. And they do it in a legal way, you know, legal way. But it works. You know, some people say, well, that's not honest. It's not, it's not ethical. You cannot do that. We're not gonna do that. Yes you're right. When, when, but the thing is when the company tells you, okay, I'm losing$7 million per year, per day. Just because this guy wants$20,000. Okay? The, and, and also you followed all the steps. You know, the, the, the right steps. You go to the government, you go to the judge, you go to the, and, and then none of them works because they are working together. What are you gonna do about it? Are you gonna close the business? Are you gonna tell, okay, you know what? I'm not gonna pay$20,000 a year for this for hiding this employee. I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna lose my$7 million per day. That's not gonna happen. That's the truth, you know? But the thing Yoyo is nobody wants to talk about it.

Yoyo 39:18

Well, it's particularly life-threatening if you do You know, speaking up about it from a, from a honest ex perspective or from an integrity perspective, isn't particularly life. It is, is life threatening, but also cartel management. I mean, it doesn't seem like a very good job to be in, to have a long life. Really,

Eduardo 39:39

nothing. No, they don't, they don't. It's, it's critical. It's critical. You see what is happening in Al Sal, in Salvador you know, all the people that are in jail with this new security program that the president is doing. I mean, most of them, I will say 90%, they're below 30, 25 years old. You know, I mean, political risk, dealing with Narcos, dealing with all this severe risk is not easy. Is not easy. Now, we don't take the decisions, you know, we as a security professionals, and I, and I want you to be clear on that. I'm not proposing to pay distortion. That's, that's a now go. But you as a security professionals, what you do is you do you, you do your risk assessment, you have your plan A, plan B, plan C, and you present all this plan to the decision makers. They pull the trigger. You ensure that you, hr, your legal, your c e o and your management team or security committee have everything on their hands to take ed educated decision, and they pull the trigger. But I cannot tell the c o, oh, you need to pay the bribe, or you need to pay this government because that's not gonna be looking good at all. That's not my role. I'm not gonna do that. But you tell them, this is what you have, how are you gonna deal with that? And whatever they decide, then you will see if it is ethical, if you can do it. If it is, it will increase the the, the danger. Usually when you pay distortion, it's gonna come more and more money. You know, this year I'm gonna pay 20,000. Next year I'm gonna pay a million. Yeah. And it's not gonna stop. That's why it is very critical. I say critical is very, very critical dealing with those things. So having just a security manager to deal with that is not gonna work. You need a special skills to deal with high political risk. In a high risk country. A security manager, just a security manager. it will probably be approached by the narcos and either you join them or you get killed, or you will have to leave the company or they'll, well, they'll just burn your business down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it happens. It happens, you know. Yeah. But we had cases of when you build your policies and procedures and then on the supply chain and you tell them, oh, well guess what? You are not gonna chip any truck. After six o'clock in the afternoon because it's gonna get robbed. And then everybody's agree. And then, you know, couple of days later, oh, we got this security incident, what happened? Well, a truck that got dispatched at nine o'clock you know, that's no go. So that's a red flag actually. So yeah,, you got to be very careful because they can force the security manager, the HR department to hire people to go inside the company. And now you have an insider threat inside your company doing intelligence work, counting intelligence work, and you don't know about it. Yeah,

Yoyo 42:48

it's interesting actually.'cause we all grow up, don't we, as kids, playing cops and robbers. It looks like

Eduardo 42:52

a movie.

Yoyo 42:54

Yeah, well, they make movies on it. I think a lot of people have recommended Narcos to me to watch saying it's probably the most realistic way of portraying what that culture is like, but you know, when you think that we've grown up as children playing cops and robbers, I can't help but think we're just in, a global version of cops and robbers. When you look at everybody on our side or ASIS members, ifpo, wherever, and, and then you look at the other side and it is just cops and robbers, isn't it really? Mm-hmm.

Eduardo 43:21

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we can find many other crazy things in, in this specific countries. I can show you one, a company that we tried to implement the CT pad program, and I mean, they, their val, their security violation was, were everywhere. They couldn't comply with anything, so they were considered a high risk. And when we went there, it was funny, but they say, well, we are in the middle of the community. All the people in the community works in this company and they survive thanks to this company. They're not gonna rob the company. No, doesn't matter. You have the best policies and procedures, nothing's gonna happen. They protect the company from the, the criminal activities. I was like, shock. You know, it works, but you know, you still have to comply with the policies and procedure that we're trying to create. We're trying to standardize this. You have to provide to the other clients that your company is, is well protected technically, and on, on writing if you want to pass a risk assessment. But yeah, they, they finally did it, but it, it was amazing to see that they will not have any security incidents just because of that.

Yoyo 44:40

You, you said earlier about special skills, you know, to operate in these high risk environments, but really it's not just the special skills, is it? You are having to play with a whole new set of rules, and that's why experts need to manage the transitions. And even if, if the, if it can happen even, because I should imagine some businesses, unless they are very wealthy and very successful, I should imagine some businesses will say, do you know what? It's just not worth it to us. It's not worth the grief, it's not worth the antagonism. And so in a sense, really these countries, they can lose out on a lot of inward investment certainly international Inwood investment because they're not viable places to set up business.

Eduardo 45:26

We always say it is not like you cannot do business, but there is a right way and a secure way to do the business. And then if you consider that, I mean, I've seen companies that they ask about, okay, do a risk assessment. We want to ensure that we, it is safe to do business in there. And when they see the risk assessment, they just walk away. They say, no, you know what? We're gonna invest in that country. So my rule or my, my work is to present, as I say, you know, all the, all the evidence is all my investigation. And then they will take the most, you know, accurate business decision. You know, when when you have conflict interest, for example. And then you had to do you know, policies and procedures on business partners, on cybersecurity high intellectual property security human resource. How are you gonna deal with with, with the amps One example, you. May have a, a policies and procedure in the US that works in here, but then you go to Mexico, Europe, or anywhere else, those rules or regulation will not apply to them. One example, in Mexico, you cannot do a background check. So how are you gonna plan to do something similar to background check? Because you have to do something. Yeah. It's not like, because it's illegal to do it by the government. Yeah. What are you gonna do about it? So that's very easy to get an insider threat. You know, maybe somebody bad or you know, but you are not allowed to do a criminal check on anybody. You can do it, but it's illegal, you know? Physical security. How are you gonna deal with physical security? How are you gonna do your security procedures? How are you gonna do your risk assessment for the supply chain security? How are you gonna deal with high security seals? Yeah. Are you gonna do the, the training? What kind of training? In what language are you gonna do the training? Because in the US you do it in English, but also some laws require you to have the, the same training in their language of the, of the, if they don't speak English. So we had a situation also jojo, that we have about 15 different nationalities inside the warehouse. And then there was only one sign of OSHA or safety and security in English. So when I told them, okay do you know how to speak Arabic or Indian? No. Do you know how to speak Korean? No. Do you have any sign in Korea or did you give them an a safety orientation or security on the orientation in their language? No. Well, this is a big liability, is there is an emergency. You don't have a plan of proper communication with them. Guess what, you're saving a lot of money here, but you're gonna probably lose a lot of millions of dollars if

Yoyo 48:20

something happen. Yeah. I can't help but think that America would probably relate to Mexico in the sense of being a, a difficult sibling that you just can't manage because there's an awful lot of opportunities to do business in, in Mexico instead of importing from Asia or having products made cheaper in other areas around the world. Mexico is a great location, isn't it, really? To service America and even Canada. But the terms are just so complex, aren't they? To actually figure through

Eduardo 48:57

it is very important. It is critical. Okay. Not only Mexico central America is also critical. Honduras, Guatemala, Panama. Panama is very critical. Nicaragua is also critical for us, but talking about Mexico, Mexico is, is a, is the border between America, central and South America. And North America is, is a, is the border, right? It's right there. They're, they're the customs. And you know, it's, it's strategic for business, for geographically is very important also. So it is very convenient for US investors to have business in Mexico. So it's very related. Talking about that is very critical for US security professionals to know Spanish. You know, it will help a lot. But then there is another critical thing, culture. I may know Spanish. I may understand Spanish, but if I go to a high risk area like Reza, I will not know what wole means. You know, wole is, is a phrase used for the narcos or for the, you know, criminal groups. And there's the whole phraseology that you can think about it and the way they communicate. And also, you may go there and you may speak Spanish. They will know right away if you are not from Mexico just the right, the, the way you talk, the way you dress, the way you walk, everything they will know. And then it's very dangerous because they may think you are from a federal agency. It can be a c i A, it can be a d e a, it can be a, a law enforcement or whatever. So they have spikes spice in like, they call it Falcons parks. And then, you know, kits using for. Providing intelligence. Okay? They seat you. They will call, they will say, okay, there's somebody here that is not from the city, it's not from here. So they, they, you know, they patrol, they do surveillance on you, and they know if you're doing something you're doing intelligence or you're doing something. So, it's very critical. So Mexico, there is a lot of challenge. But you have to partnership with somebody that is local, that had established experience, establish, and know and understand the culture, you know, human trafficking in the border. Kidnapping is another thing. Traveling to Mexico for, give you another example. This executive GY went to the Mexico City gap into a cab, a taxi, and the taxi kidnapping sold him to the narcos. Why? Because you know, they're very smart. They started asking you question and this guy was, you know, his ego, I'm the c e O of this company. Yeah. Make a lot of money. And it's like, okay, great. You are a very valuable asset. I'm gonna make a lot of money. So he got sold dear.

Yoyo 52:03

Yeah. It's

Eduardo 52:04

crazy. It happens basically every day. Does it? Yeah. So your security plan and, and your journey management in your side, in the US or whatever country you are, your journey management program, have to deal with training and communicating to all the employees that are, that are gonna be traveling about all these situations, you know? Mm-hmm. And also you have to have a partner in Mexico or whatever country of high risk you're going to, to have an established driver executive protection team that is gonna cover all this thing and that is gonna have a meet and grip step by step protocol to. Receive this, the, the amp, l g in the airport, transfer them from point A from B point C and then go back to your country. One thing that we have been discussed with jojo is like many employees, they, they go to another country, they say, well, you know what? I'm gonna take two days off. You know, I'm gonna know the city, so don't worry about my security. I'm gonna take care of myself. And, and things happen. You know, now you, you as an employee created a problem to your company, to your security manager because you violating the company policies or the security protocols. Now I have to deal with that. So I had to call, if I have a special risk insurance, I have to call them. I had to activate the crisis management team, the emergency response there in our case, we're not. We don't care about the money. We if, I mean, if they ask$10 million, we have it. We'll give it. We we're, we're taking care about the life of that person because the reputation on, on the life of the person is very valuable. So when you do that and you don't have a journey management program, well established and well communicated that thing happened. So in, in, in that case, we one of the case that we built the Journey management program. We talked to the, you know, the decision makers and we say, look, I, is you going to this country? Just please don't stay for pleasure. Just come back and that's it. You're going just to work.

Yoyo 54:17

We discussed previously that China's now quite heavily investing in Mexico because of the supply chain. So how have they been out? What's their strategy in getting through the door in Mexico? Have they just formed partnerships too? Just like you suggested?

Eduardo 54:33

Very interesting. We have seen that many US companies are creating partnerships with other competitors and that they say, well, let's, let's get together and everybody put$10 million and we're gonna create a backup system or group to supply us with with what we need. You know, and we are gonna establish this in Mexico with warehouses in the US and another company in, in Honduras. That's a backup plan. That's a crisis management plan. That's an e r P plan. Does the plan B c D. Plan or program. So guess what? That works very well. If there is something going on in Asia and they shut down operation, it's gonna affect the US operation because we cannot supply, you know, whatever we produce to our customers in America or Europe. And they do the same for Europe. So if they do that, now how am I gonna protect that? You know? But this is, this is a wonderful strategy, you know, on business, well China knows about it. So they say, okay, you want to have a plan B, I'm gonna have a plan B as well. So I'm gonna go to those areas and I'm gonna invest, I'm gonna buy Makayla's they call it Mexico, they call it Maquilas, which is their production plants I'm gonna buy, and I'm gonna do the same that I do in China, but I'm gonna do it in in Mexico and Honduras. So, You go to McKayla's and then you see, you know, people doing, you know, anything, you know, shares shoes or whatever product they, they are doing. But then as the labor is done by by the citizens of that country, but when you see who's managing that, they are Asian, Chinese, or you know, I don't know exactly, but it's a strategic thing. So they have their own backup program as well, not only. Yeah. Well, they, they're smart. Not only Mexico, the whole continent, you know, from Canada all the way down to Argentina, where we have been is the same thing. I'm buying property. I'm real estate, they're strong. I'm buying other things in Panama, they're investing a lot of Panama, which is very critical.

Yoyo 56:53

Yes. And we know why, because of the Panama Canal. So what happens? I mean, that's, that's a huge, huge trade. A trade port, isn't it? And there've been tensions before, haven't there in that region simply because of the Panama Canal.

Eduardo 57:10

Yes. It's, it's critical. It's critical for us to keep control in that. And, and Mexico, one thing that they, they have yoyo is they don't take about, they, they don't care about the time. You know, they that go slowly slow. They take the time, but they're very passionate about it, taking control of everything. They take the time. Yeah. They have the money for it. They cannot, they don't care about investment. They, it is gonna cost me a hundred billion dollars, make it happen. You know? Yeah. But they, eventually they're gonna, it's strategic and eventually you're gonna have a control. One, one friend of mine was making a joke and they say like, There is no place in the world that you go that is not selling Chinese food. You had a Chinese restaurant everywhere. I don't know if this is strategic from them, but it works Well. I,

Yoyo 58:00

I dunno. You see, because here in the UK I know certainly in my home city, a a lot of our Asia restaurants are from the Hong Kong part of China, which means they're British citizens and you can tell because they speak one of the, the, the dominant languages. But, Even they know if a business is Chinese run from China because they speak the other of the dominant languages. So even they see the divide being quite significant. And it's only when you go to Chinese communities where you see that they're heavily either China based or Hong Kong based. There's a huge, huge difference. And so I think even we can draw an inference that China's overall strategy definitely is going to be due to significant placement of assets globally. I look at what they're doing, especially when you told me about the ports in America all having predominantly Chinese owned shares. And I just started to think it's like a chess game, isn't it? When you look at, it's from a, it's. A strategic perspective, a very, very clever chess game when you think that they now own a lot of nuclear power plants. They've got the, the best and most efficient way of building nuclear power plants. So they tend to win the contracts. And here you go, you've got some really significant moves going on.

Eduardo 59:22

Well, there is a weak link in the, in the federal security system. When I say that is, I, I will tell you an example. A Chinese couple comes to the us. They're spies and they have a child. He's a US citizen, right? And that child grows up, had a family and he have another child. So second generation child, US citizen, and that individual speak Chinese English or another language. And then he go into the federal security system and he became a Z I A agent F B I agent, because he speaks Mandarin or Chinese. Guess what? It's an infiltrated by, it happens with when you go to Saudi Arabic or, or any country and, you had a couple of us US citizen, and you want have a a, a child. They tell you your child is gonna have a citizenship where the country you are coming from. Yeah. Period. Yeah. That's it. Nobody's gonna a that's the law here is it? Another thing is, yeah. And, and there's not negotiation right there. So your citizenship or the citizenship, your child is gonna be your citizenship. You decide, okay. Now if you are going to another country and then you wanna open a business, let's say I want to go to any country I go to the US and I go open a business. My business a hundred percent my business, I don't have a partner. You guys, some countries, they force you to have a 51% share with somebody that is domestic, local citizenship of the country. If not, you're not investing. Yeah. Yeah. So there are so many ways that some countries protect from espionage, you know, or from that kind of activities. But I will say that US is, is very weak on that.

Yoyo 1:01:21

Yeah. And you can see the vulnerability that's there. And that's, that's another conversation. But Eduardo, thank you so much. What's coming up future-wise for you that you do? I hear the typing of another book happening at

Eduardo 1:01:34

all. Yes. I'm working on the I call it the mu mutation of terrorism. Which is basically how all these groups are. You, you, we, we talked about that earlier in as a asymetic warfare, how they infiltrate, how they doing intel, how they do counter intelligence and all this thing. So I'm still researching and trying to put, I enjoy putting like real cases scenario because people enjoy those, but they learn, you know, instead of Yes, just reading a boring book and things like that. So that's what I put the, the, the power of knowing your threat, which is basically talk about everything about traffic. And not only Mexico, but also for the whole America, because everything is affecting, actually it is that true that it is so true that the cartels in Mexico were, were related or associated with the killing of of the candidate in, in Ecuador. Really? So when people say like, okay, this is for Mexico. Well, it is in Mexico, but it applied for the whole continent that where we're living

Yoyo 1:02:45

because you create radical positive change in one country, it can then disable another country and they could perhaps see that it's happening. Yes, yes. Wow. Okay. So yeah, so, so all the apple apples and Yeah, all the don't, don't put one good apple in the car of bad apples then. Yeah. Okay, so, I'm just looking at your book. I will provide the links to the art of protecting under Political Risk and the power of knowing your threats. I like the way you use a nice large font, I have to say. And second of all, I really like the way you style your, your information, because you use a lot of bullet points and it kind of breaks it down. And that's a really nice thing to do, Eduardo. It's just neat. So I'm looking forward to getting my nose into those. Yeah.

Eduardo 1:03:34

You know when, when you read a book and you put so many scientific words people don't understand, you know, I go straight to the point. I tell people, this is what you're gonna have. You know, I don't, I don't put sugar on it. This is a reality. You need to know your threats. You need to understand your threat. In that way, you will be able to protect better, to create your safety and security programs better. Make it better. So I, I'm very simple because I want you to understand, read, enjoy the reading, but at the same time you say like, you know what? I didn't consider this, or This is so true. Or, now I have some tools to tell my, my seal level team, look what I'm telling you. I didn't tell you this in, in, in a different way, but now I have some kind of support to tell you. This is happening, so we have to do something. This is very serious and this is a, this is basically these two books is a tool for the security professional to communicate better with the C-level and let them understand what are the risks of doing business in a severe risk country.

Yoyo 1:04:44

Yeah, I get that completely and it's very well presented. Ed, thank you so much. Eduardo Ard, thank you Eduardo. Bill Hat, thank you so much for joining us on the Security Circle. Thank you for your time. I see

Eduardo 1:04:57

you soon. G S X.