EP 069 Tracy Boylin "I was a successful award-winning HR Director, and yet I was bullied out of the job I loved"

About

Hi, I'm Tracy, the CEO of Organisational Genetics.

I know all about toxic workplaces and how they damage workforces.

As an HR expert of more than 25 Years, I've experienced bullying first-hand as Director of Human Resources at a world-famous NHS Hospital Trust.

As a whistleblower determined to highlight a damaging culture of enforced silence, I was threatened, persecuted, and eventually driven out of my job. And it didn’t stop there.

But what I learnt from these horrendous experiences and my subsequent campaign for justice was that I was not prepared to turn away. I was determined to fight for the truth – for justice – and to help others in similar situations.

More importantly, I wanted to prevent them from happening again. As a result, I have created systems to make raising concerns easier and that can also support the work of independent, external bodies.

My work helps organisations create a more open reporting culture, prevents individuals from being victimised or suffering retribution and ensures that a talented, committed workforce is retained.

My team and I help companies and organisations: 

✅ Manage risk

✅ Reduce harm

✅ Promote respect through hi-tech live intelligence 

To promote a healthier and more productive working life.

Connect with me and find out more, I am honoured to help.

CONTACT ME:

☎️ 07894 846835 

📧 support@orggen.co.uk 

📍 City Lab, 5-6 Dalton Square, Lancaster, LA1 1PP

Security Circle ⭕️ is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers

Transcript

0:01

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Yoyo: 0:44

Hi, this is Yolanda. Welcome, welcome to the Security Circle podcast. IFPO is the International Foundation for dedicated to providing meaningful education and certification for all levels of security personnel and make a positive difference to our members mental health and well being. Our listeners are global and they are the decision makers of tomorrow. And we want to thank you wherever you are, whatever you're doing for being a part of the security circle. And if you love the podcast. Like it, share it. We are on all podcast platforms. Give us a five star rating. With me today, I have Tracy Boylan. And you might not know Tracy Boylan actually, but I was attracted to Tracy Boylan on LinkedIn because she calls herself the employee whisperer, Tracy Boylan. Welcome to the Security Circle. Thank you.

Tracy: 1:31

Good morning.

Yoyo: 1:31

So where did this come from? The employee whisperer? We've all heard of the horse whisperer, haven't we? But the employee whisperer.

Tracy: 1:38

So it came from a comment I was getting quite a lot from individuals and clients that I work with. cause I listen and in terms of how I listen to hear, not to respond. And I think that's quite important because if you listen to respond, you're not really picking up. on the clues that people are telling you and what they're saying. And it was interesting because I always tend to repeat back when I want to be sure that I have interpreted something right because they might have used different words. And I said, what I heard then is this correct? And the smiles that come across people's faces and they go, you're in my head, you're in my head. And then one day I met an amazing individual, a guy called Faisal Shah, who's based out in Switzerland and used to work for LinkedIn and was one of the people who set up LinkedIn and now works for Denton 10 times and has his own company doing his own thing. And he said, You're in all our heads, Tracer. You're like the employee whisperer. And so he's got to take credit for that phrase really because and afterwards he said it's a skill set and he helped me with my LinkedIn profile because of his expertise with LinkedIn because I'm not great on social media. And, which is probably why people don't know me because I don't do an awful lot I'm trying to do more to get to empower people and get that voice out there. And, but that's where it came from basically.

Yoyo: 3:09

Thanks for asking. I mean, you've got a good start already because a lot of people when they want advice on their LinkedIn profile, they're like, well, I don't really know what to say. But you have your narrative already. You have your. Your conversation is there. It's just, you've just got to learn how to get it out there.

Tracy: 3:26

Yes.

Yoyo: 3:27

Let's look at why being a listener is really good for starters. And I mentioned this only because most people who listen know that I also listened to James O'Brien. It's the libertarian in me. I can't help it. But actually I need to ring into his show one day and say James, where have you been all of my liberalist life? Because he's really good at shutting up people who are just quite prejudiced and moaning. And I like that because there's a little bit of that negativity out there, but in a recent show, he basically alluded to the fact quite rightly that the art of conversation seems to have massively and we're even assuming that maybe social media has got a lot to do with it. So, for example, let's look at a text conversation. I send you a text message, you read it, you send one back. And I can't help but feel my interpretation is that we've got into this really bad, I see it a lot, people listening to speak. Yes. And it's really rude, actually, because you can tell. It's like watching a bad actor. You know that what line they're going to say next because they've opened their mouth, right? And you can tell somebody in front of you isn't listening because they just can't wait to speak. And one thing I say, and I've loved this about doing the podcast is because I could really talk the cows off a roof. I don't know if that's a good phrase but I learned to listen by doing podcasts because I have to shut up. So why is it that you're breaking through and people are really responding positively and all you're doing is listening well, active listening?

Tracy: 5:01

I think because it's what is at the core of me, why I bounce out of bed in the morning and do the work that I do. Because for me, it's about human connection. And we sort of built for that, but I've lost it because of social media and also the pandemic sort of compounded that as well. But I think, You can see those people who don't. I can sit through a whole board meeting and some of the board members after will say, you didn't speak once. And I said, but the gold dust I've got in terms of information here that I can take away and reflect on and come back on is gold dust. And for me, understanding those different perceptions around the table, and that helps for me to manage what is the core of what I do. So although my background is in human resources, I think human resources has lost the heart of managing risk. And that for me is what it's about. Because if you act as the conscience of the organization and really listen to get that information, then you've got somewhere to go with it. And the solutions tend to become really clearer and apparent. instead of just getting defensive. So sometimes we've got embroiled in this legalistic culture as well, where there's a, you know, a claim, people see a claim, so we're automatically responding because of that. I know there won't be a claim if I get to the root cause of the problem, because I'll manage that risk.

Yoyo: 6:33

You're here to talk about how, as a senior person, you were bullied. Now, before we come on to that, I want to kind of tap into a little bit about your ethos in human resources. Lately, people have become a little bit more skeptical, haven't they, about the true role of human resources, i. e. being for the business and not for the employee. But human resources hasn't really. Based any kind of, you know, transformational change has it over the last 50 years. And I can't help but feel that whilst it's incredibly important in a business to have the functionality that it delivers It needs to be kind of packed up and labeled in a different way. Protective services, we all know can include anything from legal to security and cyber security even. And I definitely think human resources sits in there as well. It's there to protect the business. But also we seem to be Always seeing negative information around how employees feel. Even though HR is saying, come to us, tell us if you have a problem, that all it does is open up a great big wound that doesn't really seem to help that individual at all.

Tracy: 7:47

So I've been in HR for many years. When I first started, it was called personnel. And then it was very devalued by most companies because they felt it was the soft and fluffy stuff as they called it. And then when Dave Ulrich, who is a big HR guru out there, sort of said HR, the way to change this, HR needs to be more of a business partner and strategic. And I think that wrongly changed what Dave Ulrich meant being a business partner was because. There was a lot of perception in the HR circles that I was involved in, was that meant becoming part of management. And it's not, it's that sort of, for me, separate to say, step back, you know, think about how you bring your people with you. We're all partners in this, we're all stakeholders, and for it to work, it can't be a them and us. It needs to be all of us. So the decisions we need to make, and I know that's harder to do the bigger the organisation, but we shouldn't be making decisions about people without people. For me, if you just think about it on a purely individual level, What listener sat out there once a decision made about them that they don't have an input to? Tell I've never found one. I've never crossed the path of one that says, yeah, I'm happy for you to make the decisions, whatever the consequences, and I'll accept that. So how we bring those and make our organisations thrive is key to that and really important. And if we don't do that, we're missing a trick. And in the projects that I've overseen, the outcomes of that have just been apparent in the transformation that's happened. So it is pretty critical.

Yoyo: 9:46

one would say that on the scale of victims of bullying, being an HR director, you'd kind of be pretty low down on the scale of being a target for a bullying experience. And I guess that must have shocked you. One of the first questions I want to ask you is, how far in did you go until you realized I, I'm actually being bullied here?

Tracy: 10:10

I didn't even stop to think about it, to be honest, Yolanda. Right. I was concerned about the people. That I was trying to help at the time and I think it's only the day I got locked in a room and refused to let out unless I signed a non disclosure agreement, which I still didn't sign. I got out of the room in the end by saying, I think about it overnight and talk to my family. That was the only way I got home. And I ran from that organization and never went back. And I still didn't coin the term bullying to it. I was thinking about it in terms of the toxic culture. And it was only a few months in when I came downstairs in my pajamas because it had made me so ill. And my two daughters were sat at the dining table, whispering, who were school age at the time, 13 and 14, and looked at me and I said, and you know when you just know the talking stops, so you've walked into a conversation that you're not meant to hear. And I said to the girls, what's going on? And my youngest said, mum, have you got cancer? And I said, what? I said, what on earth makes you think I've got cancer? And she said. Because you've gone from this amazing, beautiful, smart woman going to work every day to living in your pyjamas for months. so where I was not telling them anything had gone on. I sat them down and talked about it and my eldest said, Mom, this is bullying and this wouldn't be allowed in our school. And it hit me like a brick. And I'm like, Yeah.

Yoyo: 11:53

And it took, how old was she at the time when she said that to you? She was 14. It took a 14 year old to tell you that you were being crikey. Okay, let's go back to the beginning and let's talk about those early signs. We know it's bullying now. We know that you were in a very toxic relationship with your boss. Where did it start? And where did you start to feel very uncomfortable?

Tracy: 12:20

I felt uncomfortable from day one, but not against me. So I did two weeks into the organization. I was sat in a team meeting with my peers who were managers at other levels, managed by the deputy CEO. And we had a fortnightly meeting and he said, you know, the CEO wants to reinstate the presentations at risk committee. And, again, my, you know, watching people, observing people, everybody just went, Oh! And I thought, what's wrong with that? Yeah. And just, but it was more than just the, oh no, you know, another job to do. It felt worse than that. And he said, Oh, and unfortunately, Tracy she's decided she wants you to do the first presentation, even though you've been only been here two weeks. And I said, okay. And the colleague next to me patted me on the shoulder and went, I'm so sorry. And I'm like, so sorry. I'm used to doing presentations. I don't have a problem. And she went, not like this. And I went, what do you mean? So he sort of said, the deputy CEO said, you can't underline anything. You cannot underline anything. And you can't engage, you just present for 10 minutes and then you sit down. And she comments on that presentation. So I said, interesting. So, I'm me, and you know, it's probably in retrospect looking back thinking, is it a surprise? Because I break the rules. I thought I want to see what happens if I underline something. Is this an urban myth in the organization? Or if I underline something, if I engage and ask questions to the audience, what will happen? So I did exactly that. And it went down so well. People at first, there was this silence and people walked up the end of the long boardroom table of about 30 people. And as soon as I asked a question. all the heads turned away from me and looked to the chief exec and I thought interesting. And then I said, come on. So I said, Maureen, you answer. So I just made somebody I gave, you know, poor Maureen, no choice. And she answered the question and then the engagement started and the CEO engaged as well. She started answering some of the questions I was asking. And at the end of it, She said, thank you, Tracy. That was really interesting. She said, you know, we don't normally do it like that, but I'd love to know what everybody else thought because I really enjoyed it. Was the CEO's response. So I thought, that's good. So she started to go around the table. She wrote a lot of comment from everybody. She started to go around the table. And when it got to this one particular lady, she said, I loved it. She said, that was great. And she said, I just didn't know we was allowed to do it that way. And the chief exec's response was, you effing stupid bitch.

Yoyo: 15:42

In front of everybody?

Tracy: 15:44

In front of everybody, which took me aback. And then she, you know, she said, how much do we pay you? And then she moved on to the next person. And I was stood there, when you're sort of thinking what, how do I respond to this? That's so inappropriate. And she'd carried on going to the next people, so I'm sort of trying to listen to the next comments. And then I glanced back at that lady, and she had her head down and there were silent tears rolling down her face. And I thought, if I stop the meeting, do I make it worse for her? If I call that out, do I make it worse for her? Because I've only been here two weeks. So I made the decision to just leave it and go and see the chief exec after with my concerns. And do a response when I went to see her afterwards. People, this is a high profile organisation. And if you're here, it looks good on your CV. So people are lucky to be here. And she said, you walked into that meeting tracer. You just did what your job was. And I respect that. She said, you didn't do it in the same standard format. I see every time. She said, you did it in your own style. You engaged everybody. So on the one hand, she was being really complimentary, but I was really worried as a chief exec, she could not see how that was inappropriate in a meeting. So that was my first taste of the culture there really. And and it told me so much about why people feared doing that presentation. So it was shocking really. And that's how it, and for five years I wasn't the target, but I'd be constantly challenging them because they'd like, they'd do these performance reviews that I'd do the minutes for and the exec team would open it by Whose turn is it to give a good kick into today?

Yoyo: 17:37

Okay, that's not great. No. I mean, did anybody even feel brave enough to step up and say, Hey, listen, that's not really appropriate.

Tracy: 17:45

No, only me. So, and the director of nursing was always very quiet. I had enormous respect for her despite her being quiet. And she used to say, I'm so glad you're here, but you're never going to change anything, Theresa. You know, I just, she was waiting out the following year for her retirement. Right. So

Yoyo: 18:04

really, she's in that classic, and we've all seen it, acquiescing role, where it becomes survival, doesn't it?

Tracy: 18:12

Yeah.

Yoyo: 18:12

To acquiesce, because otherwise you literally become a target yourself. Yeah. Okay, so you're still fairly new. Clearly, you're, you must be getting some red flags by now. What happened next?

Tracy: 18:24

So I tried, I thought, right, I'm going to really get to the bottom of this and understand it. And. HR as it does at that point coming into the organization. Had a bad reputation. Nobody came near it. So they'd given up, staff had given up on the hope that HR would do anything. That they actually made it work, so if you came to HR, so I had to do a lot of work with the team. I went out to divisions and we worked with divisions to really understand what the challenges were. And what we did, despite that toxic culture at the top, We built up a really good rapport and we knew that bad reputation that HR had, so people at least would come and talk to us. And in different ways I could start to put solutions in. It led to we did a score rating that I implemented on, you know, what's your, not only quantitative view of hr, but what is the qualitative view in terms of perception? Because perception is reality as well. So, we went from where zero, you know, you're just not even worth listening to. Or engaging with to five being the top score and within 18 months we were hitting fives from every department. So that, I'd built up the team, I'd built up the capacity of the team, I'd done some development with them about different ways. We don't just follow policy. Where the policy doesn't suit and it's not a human policy, we break the rules. And they said, what do you mean we break the rules? And I said, so if our policy says, and they won't let us change it at board level, that you can only be accompanied by a trade union rep or a colleague. That's rubbish. I want a person accompanied by the person that they trust, whether it be a trade union rep or a colleague or not. That's where we get to the root cause of the solution. That's where we'll solve it. Otherwise we'll end up in tribunal. And that's what I did. And people respected sort of the ways that I would go in. around the houses to make it a better workplace. So part of it was such a conflict because that part of the job was so satisfying, seeing the difference it was making in the organization's people when people were coming to us to going into a board meeting that was so toxic. And even though it was a toxic team, they'd stab each other in the back and undermine each other as well. So at first chance they got, they did that and it was a real conflict. And for five years, I told myself naively I could change this culture. And what I'd done was starting to change that, but it really needs to change the culture at the top to really change culture as well. So I was wrongly telling myself that I could change that without being able to get the leadership team to accept.

Yoyo: 21:24

Yeah, but I think a lot of people listening would be thinking, well, hang on a minute. That is the type of conversation you have with yourself.

Tracy: 21:30

Yeah.

Yoyo: 21:31

You know, and I think I think it's part of the process, where did you start to feel

Tracy: 21:35

like this is really getting to you? There were days it didn't, I went home, I thought, can I do this? And my friends would be like gosh Tracey, when I have a problem, you're the one I come to because you know how to solve it. Yes, you'll solve this. So I had that conflict with my friends, like, you know, you're doing this and you're doing it as a single mum. My God, I couldn't do half of what you do. So that I was sort of listening to them and saying, yeah, no. And if I don't do it, who will? Am I deserting it? a sinking ship and I'm part of the leadership team. So it's on my watch. I've got a duty. So that, that real big sense of duty kept telling me to play one. And like I say, with me personally, I mean, the CEO nominated me four months before for director of the year before it all kicked off and you know, that nomination went through my 360 anonymous appraisal was always amazing. Absolutely. And even from them, so like the CEO would put comments but it was interesting in the very last one, there was one particular comment that jumped out at me which someone had put you know, the one, you know, she's pragmatic, brilliant at handling conflict, calm under pressure engages at all levels. And they said, but one thing that stands out for me about Tracey and they put the word is, and they put it in capitals, is integrity. And then they'd put, believe me, I've seen it tested under fire. And again, where I dive deep and I read those words, I thought tested at one, why should integrity be tested under fire? And two, why should anything be under fire in an organization? We're not on the front line of a war. So I thought I'd use that comment when I sat down to get my feedback to say to the deputy CEO. Does that not tell you how people feel? And so I sort of opened it by saying, I wonder what I did there and I wonder what was happening and what that person was observing. So that one, I can do more of it because that's a brilliant comment. And two, but what is it telling us about the organization? And his response was, his exact words haunt me to this day, because then I thought I am beginning to realise I'm on a loser here. I can't change anything. And he went, Oh, the F do I know what you did? I thought he's missed the point. He's missed the point. You

Yoyo: 24:10

must have been at this stage feeling like a bit of a lone island. Have you at this stage, do you recall what was going through your mind? And I mean, you're still on this journey of making things better.

Tracy: 24:22

Yeah, I'm thinking I still want to do this. I still really wanted to do it because I've never quit at anything. And I'd had so many successes. I've got, you know, I think, you know, you're doubting yourself, you know, there's always that phrase that my parents brought me up with, if you tell yourself, you know, that is a famous phrase said by someone, if you tell yourself you can't and I had such a great rapport with my team, a great rapport with the rest of the organization. I'm thinking this is just six people in the leadership team. So I've got to do this. I really wanted to do it and change and show how it could change things. And it was just then a chance encounter with a colleague on the corridor who looked dreadful that I stopped and said, yeah, how are you? Tell us what happened. So he was walking down the corridor, brilliant doctor. You know, never had any problems with him, been into his department, his team loved him. You saw all the cards from his patients on the wall. Amazing. I'd had a friend who'd actually been to see him and she couldn't praise him enough. So all, and he never knew that was my friend. I never said it to him, never fed back because I thought it's not my place to. So he's walking down the corridor, looks absolutely dreadful. I'm like, who are you? And he did the usual thing women nearly all do and said, fine. And I'm like, yeah, now tell me how you are really, let's go and get a coffee. So his eyes filled up with tears and he went, thank you. So I found I pushed it and just accepted fine. He'd have gone on his way, I'd have gone on my way. And we went and had a coffee and he told me the exec team were putting him on pressure that he felt was creating a massive patient safety risk. Um, I looked at the stuff in more detail with him and explored it more to be sure what he thought he wasn't imagining because again, he had moments he was doubting himself. He said he talked about it to colleagues. I said, what do your colleagues think in the same boat? And it's like, that's how it is here. We just have to accept it or we go and work elsewhere. So we can't do anything. So keep quiet. Don't say anything. You know, just get on with it. And it's either another trust that doesn't have this type of profile. And it's not specialist because we were a specialist trust in their field that we worked in as well. Or you have to go abroad with your family and go and work elsewhere. So that was his advice that his colleagues were giving him. So I sat there listening to this with, you get that feeling in the pit of your stomach and I'm I said, I'm going to go away and reflect and come back and talk to you tomorrow. And I came back to her and said, I can't ignore now what I've heard. And he said, I can't go and talk to them, Tracy, you know how they are, you know how toxic they are, my career will be over. Um, And I said, but I'm HR, but again, how can this happen to an HR, you don't believe it could happen to an HR director, so I'm like, but I know what I know, and I knew I was good at my job. without being you know, egotistical about it. I was, people told me I was, all the feedback I got, I was. So I said, let me try because this is a risk and I would not be doing my duty. So I went to challenge the exec team and It was horrific, just absolutely horrific. The response was, these are not matters for you to get involved in. But we will deal with him and deal with his queries. And it ended up with him being subjected to false allegations. So he found himself embroiled in disciplinary processes, grievance processes, and interestingly, They didn't engage with my team to advise, they brought in an external consultant to do that. So, that was, again, one of the people that deserve HR, having a bad rep who call themselves HR people. Because she was helping to be complicit in that process. And Again, I was just being told to shut up. But what started to happen that I hadn't really paid attention to is I started to get excluded from meetings, key meetings. So that's probably the first sign of where they were bullying me without directly, you know, sort of making it advert and so clear. So I was excluded from meetings and then they called me in to say this consultant. Well, before that I'd actually said, look this doctor had collapsed and ended up going to hospital. Um, And unfortunately, sadly was dead within an hour of arrival at that hospital, three children under 12. So at that point I went I just walked up to the exec team's offices, said I need to see the deputy CEO and medical director. And his PA said, he's in a meeting, you can't interrupt. I said, watch me. So I opened the door and interrupted until, and again, naively, Yolanda, I walked into there thinking, no, they'll get it. This is absolutely one of the most horrific, awful situations to be in where someone has lost their life, but they'll get it. And they didn't. They just cheered and high fived that this doctor would no longer be able to take legal proceedings against them, that he'd started. Oh wow that's awful. Yeah.

Yoyo: 30:09

Did you actually see that yourself?

Tracy: 30:11

Yeah, and I felt, again, I felt like, oh, I stopped myself. You know, it was only through breathing. that I stopped myself from physically throwing up. I felt like I was going to throw up.

Yoyo: 30:23

It's pretty shocking, really, when you think that this is an institution that's there for caring for people. And yet, ultimately, this is how they're behaving behind closed doors. And I think, wow. Okay. Yeah,

Tracy: 30:33

it was shocking to me. And I, you know, you think you've You get to a certain age, as I have, and a long career, you think you've seen it all, but you never have. I know, no, I never have. Till the day I die, I'll, I've never seen it all, I'm sure.

Yoyo: 30:48

Gosh, I mean, and again, did you feel like you were the only one in the room, you know, feeling what, what is going on here? Like, is that the balance? Yeah, where do I go now? You know, that's the question.

Tracy: 31:01

Where do I go now, when that's the response that I get? Yeah. So again, I went away and reflected overnight and I thought I've got to know, involve the non execs and chair of the board. And I wrote to them, I wrote to the chair of the board and said, you know, I need your response on this. And he never responded for two weeks. And after two weeks, when I chased him again, he said, you know, I've been told not to talk to you. Was his response. And I thought, I've nowhere now to, that was one of the most isolating positions I've ever been in. I had no partner to come home as a single mum and tell. You know.

Yoyo: 31:42

Did he say why he'd been told not

Tracy: 31:44

to talk to

Yoyo: 31:45

you?

Tracy: 31:46

His email response was, I've just been told not to talk to you. So, felt so isolated. Yeah. Yeah. didn't know what to do and thought, you know, I've got to keep going for the team. The team had sort of began to sort of, something was going out because I was being excluded from key meetings. And okay, so there were questions from them. There were questions again from my own, so they probably witnessed that I was being bullied well before I did really and accepted that fact. Yeah. Then it came to an end because they then brought, they decided there was bringing in this external consultant who I would then have to report to. So, my reporting line from the Deputy Chief Exec was took, and I questioned and queried in writing, how can, in terms of managing its risks, Can you have an individual that deals with all the risk of the organization that can cross HR's path report into an external consultant who's got no accountability to make sure that organization does what it does?

Yoyo: 32:56

I'm thinking at this stage, was he brought in to manage you out?

Tracy: 33:01

Yes, it was. She was a she. She was definitely brought in to manage me out. She told me that direct on the second day and she said when I say jump, you say how high. Um, And I don't know how, even on that day she said that to me, I said, you've unfortunately, you've met the wrong person because if I don't feel that needs jumping to, I will not jump. And she said, well, then we will have a problem. So, so

Yoyo: 33:31

you're looking at my face. I know my face is like. Seriously, like how, where do you go from there? You know?

Tracy: 33:40

Yeah. I just thought I'm just gonna keep being professional doing what I do. I'm not gonna, you know, I don't want them to defeat me. I don't want to break. Even though I knew I was shaking inside think I should have been more aware about the impact it was having.'cause that's when I had. When it eventually came to a total breakdown I didn't see that coming and I should have paid more attention to what was happening in my body and how I was responding. Right. But I didn't, I just thought, no, I, you know, yes, I bring two children up. They're great kids. Yes, I do this on my own. Yes, I've got to where I've got. It's my career. It's important to me. And if I can't stand up to these, what chances the rest of the organization got, you know, so that was part of it thinking, it's my job to challenge this. And if I can't do it. I'm sending the message that no one else can and that was hard as well to deal with that. Yeah. So basically, you know, things were escalating and I thought, right, if the, I kept reflecting and I thought if the exec team in terms of the exec team won't listen, the non execs won't listen, where do I go next? IE, this is a public body, I'll go to the regulators. So I wrote to David Beham, who was the chair then the chief exec of the Care Quality Commission. And I wrote to a guy called David Bennett, who was then chair CEO of NHS Improvement. and they both brought back and said this is an employment problem, nothing to do with us. So that's how they use that too. And I think this is not an employment problem. This started as a risk to patient safety from a doctor telling me what his risks were to his patients. You are missing the point. And I kept going back and not giving up. And they just, you know, that's the response. I kept getting employment problem till the, in the end, they stopped responding. So when they stopped responding, I jumped on the train to London. When you, when they stopped responding, you? I jumped on the train to London and turned up at the offices of the Care Quality Commission.

Yoyo: 35:58

Oh, Tracy, if only they'd listened to you in the beginning. You can't help but feel they're taking themselves down a very dark rabbit hole at the moment. Yeah. They've really underestimated the quality of what you are. So what happened when you turned up to London then?

Tracy: 36:14

So, you know, my daughter's like, Mom, you know, Mom, don't do it. And I'm like, Nope, I'm going. So he refused to see me as I sort of half expected he would. So there was a homeless man sat further along. They asked me to not even sit in there. Cause I said, I was going to sit in the reception until they did see me. And there was a homeless man sat further along when security asked me to step outside. Never been escorted from a building, any in my life, ever. And I went up to him and said, if I give you 10 pound, can I have a piece of your cardboard? And he looked at me and was looking me up and down and said, are you almost? And I said, no, I'm not yet. Might be soon, but not yet. So I wrote on this piece of cardboard with a big pen I had in my bag. Stood outside. David Behan doesn't care about patient safety. And someone actually walking into the CQC offices stopped me and said can I ask what that's about and I told him and he was a journalist unbeknown to me and it, the story ended up in about what was happening in Private Eye.

Yoyo: 37:26

That's an interesting sort of coincidence, isn't it? That you happen to be there protesting

Tracy: 37:31

and

Yoyo: 37:31

a journalist comes along. Like, could it have gone any more perfectly

Tracy: 37:36

for you? Yeah, but the thing is MPs and journalists going out of those offices because the CQC is on one floor There's so many, you know, sort of government departments on different floors So it, you know, probably more likely to happen there than anywhere else basically So then what I got a message was is he would see me So I got accompanied, the meeting was set up, not for that day, but a further day, and I got accompanied by a guy who'd reached out to me after he'd seen this article called Gary Walker, who was a former CEO of a trust and blew the whistle. And a surgeon called Edwin Jessadayson who'd also blew the whistle. And they said, you know, you need support, you can't go in there on your own, we'll come with you. Oh wow.

Yoyo: 38:33

And

Tracy: 38:33

from never having, you know, met them in my life before, these two guys, Start and were like, my heroes. I decided made because everything I threw at David Behan and he came back and sort of queried the, what could I know about the clinical, the surgeon answered it. CEO answered it from a accountability perspective and between the three of us, you know, he sort of sat there and he went, I'm gonna investigate. I finally I, he accepted he would need to investigate. But he queried whether it was his department that should investigate or whether it was NHS Improvement. Somebody

Yoyo: 39:15

independent, ideally, I think.

Tracy: 39:18

Yeah, unfortunately that it wasn't. Yeah. But they did do a joint investigation and uphold some of the things that I'd. identified. They didn't go into the clinical stuff because the individual wasn't there anymore. So they only looked into my concerns. So where I'd raised all about the gagging orders, because it's one of the smallest, well, it is the smallest trust in the UK. But it's got the, even to this day, it's got the highest number of settlement agreements it enters into. Oh,

Yoyo: 39:50

good lord.

Tracy: 39:51

No one's learning there then, are they? Definitely not. So, so they did uphold stuff, but it didn't do anything in terms of my situation and where I was, because I was no longer in the organisation. And money had run out, and I had no work because I knew I couldn't go back there. So it was a pretty horrific, the li you know, the lives for me and the girls changed pretty dramatically really.

Yoyo: 40:20

What were you thinking then about your future, you know, what was going through your mind about, you know, trying to recover?

Tracy: 40:27

The person that

Yoyo: 40:27

you were

Tracy: 40:29

didn't really think I had one. I, you know, it was I used to carry a photo of the girls. And when I thought I couldn't go on, I pulled that out to say, well, how can I not go on? That was the thing that kept me each day when I really got that low. I was seeing a psychiatrist for treatment'cause I'd been found on live tra, live tram lines, not knowing who I was. So yeah, I'd had a talk all day. The diagnosis was complex trauma, PTSD and even that I still challenged the consultant. Yolanda said, I don't have PTSD. I can't have PTSD because for me, I, my brain couldn't comprehend that type of environment could create PTSD. Cause for me. My little knowledge of mental health and PTSD was this would be someone who'd been on the front line, or, you know, been in a serious, you know, been subjected to a serious crime, such as rape, or their lives threatened, or attempted, you know, an attempt on their lives. It took me a long time to get my brain round, how can that relate to me, and be happening to me, and can that diagnosis be correct? That's me.

Yoyo: 41:50

Yeah, absolutely. So, so we, I take it you've now had a lot of time to reflect on that particular part of your life journey.

Tracy: 42:00

Yeah.

Yoyo: 42:00

What are the biggest kind of revelations that you say sit comfortably with you now that you can reflect?

Tracy: 42:07

Yeah, so now I reflect and it's like there was a turning point when, you know, the girls there were, after the incident on the tram lines, the girls were so terrified of losing me and I thought I've got to do something here. And I remember going for the psychiatrist appointment a couple of days later. And, you know, he said, I don't, you know, what, what's going to happen. Cause nothing in terms of the treatment seems to be working. And it'd been sort of a light bulb moment. And I thought, you know, what drives me, what makes me work is having a purpose on loving what I do. And that's what used to make me happy in life, make me a good mom. And all of that has been taken away. So where do I get that purpose back? So I looked at him and I said, You know, I have to find someone to try and employ me because I need to have a purpose again. I think that's the only thing that's going to work. And, I said, well, if I can get some work doing that. It's also going to be in the field of where I find a way to solve this problem. And he just looked at me, and I had a really good relationship with him after seeing him so often, and he went, and it was just an instant comment and reaction, he went, Are you mad? And I said, I'm sorry mate, that feels like a trick question to me because I'm sat in front of a psychiatrist, and we're both burst out laughing. And that was the first time I couldn't recall for how long that I'd laughed. and he went, so this Trace Tracy's still in there. He said Tracy is still there.'cause it's that sense of humor that I have as well. You know, I said, if I say no, you think I'm mad, are you gonna throw away the key and lock me up? And we have just this joke about it really. And he said, well, keep me posted and let's see how it goes. But he said, I just think you should stay well away. So I managed to find some work with an organization called Patients First. It was only, you know, just sort of above admin level work, really. But I thought, well, it's a start. And what Patients First was, is this organization that is set up by Dr. Kim Holmes. To help NHS whistleblowers. So I started getting my purpose back. We're listening to those calls from those members who were ringing in. You know, I had some expertise that yes, it wasn't my job. But I could say these are the things you need to work for. We campaigned. Then we had the guy that the government had commissioned who'd done the mid staffs inquiry to do a SpeakUp review, and he came to us and said, have you any evidence that I can include in my review? And I provided him. With a number of cases that we'd pulled together in the organization about what the risks were and the themes that were there, I started to see themes.'cause years ago I had a res and I know do lots of research as well. And I showed him, we showed him the themes and he included that in his report and called it the thematic review. But what that meant is patients first got that inundated after that review came out. We couldn't sustain it. There were no funding for us. We came sort of, you know, funded it by beg, borrowing and stealing and putting our own money in. So in the end we had to close it down because we couldn't just sustain the organization and cope with the demand we were. So I found myself back unemployed. And I thought, right, now's the time to employ myself and start redressing the balance. And that's what I did. I set up my own company.

Yoyo: 45:50

You are something special. Do you know that? And I don't, I, you know, I know that many people, I know certainly with previous guests on the podcast, we've attracted a lot of attention from people who've been treated really badly in their workplaces. And, the feedback that I've had is that. They're not alone. There are a lot of people out there. As we look to finish up now, what advice would you give to anybody currently recognizing that they are in a very toxic situation in their workplace and they've gone through significant steps like you, they're noticing a change in their behavior, they can't see a way out. They don't feel like they're getting the right support from the business. What would you advise?

Tracy: 46:36

So one, you've got to find the right people who, you know, not all just give you wrong advice. So reach out to people in it. The earlier you can do the better it'll talk you through it and be honest with you. You know, you get trade unions even who are biased and say, yeah, we'll fight your case. And when it comes to the fact that the organization dismisses them because they the legal team say no chance of winning. So, sorry, can't help. And if they'd have understood, I get people coming to me saying, if I'd have understood that at the beginning, I might have made different decisions. So get as much of information as you can to make the decision for you about what's likely to happen, what's realistically going to happen, and what can be done. And then you can make, because what decisions I made might not be right for somebody else. We're all individual. And what I live and experience someone might live and experience totally differently from a different perspective. So it's got to be right for them. You know, I, you, I would never be able to look in the mirror if I didn't see it through. I think I would have been more at risk of not surviving. If I hadn't done this. So it was important to me and that was the thing. I thought, okay, they've took away everything. And then I thought, but have they? And I'm like, well, what is the core of me in my heart and soul? What is me? What do I believe? And if I allow them and does, and stay silent, I've actually given them my heart and soul. I wanna play. Because I've conceded who I am. And I think it's that big, find something that keeps you going. Through all of that is core to you. And for me, retaining that part of me, that they could only have if I gave it, and I wasn't woman, gonna give it up, so.

Yoyo: 48:35

Yeah, look, I think, the other thing of course is, we don't necessarily We don't necessarily realize how something is changing us, do we? Until we look back and realize how much that changed. And what I mean is, that transformation between you being a high flying, successful, feeling great, award winning HR director, to then being turned into this individual through these attempts of degrading your opinion, then belittling your worth, you then had imposter syndrome, but at the same time you've got this core strength that's saying no, this, I can get through this, I can make it better and then you have to go through this other journey of continuing to doubt yourself and your abilities to the stage where you don't even feel like you can walk away. Because, let's face it, we can all walk away at any point, but the fact is you were made to feel that you couldn't walk away because how would you get another job and explain why you've walked out of a job? And it was that whole trap of, I can't provide a reference, I can't provide any explanation. And that's the saddest part about this. You're even you'll get stripped of all the tools that you have to separate yourself and better yourself.

Tracy: 49:53

But I still want to make it right where it's If I can get organizations to see the risk and focus on the risk, rather than these dehumanizing HR policies, then we'll start to see transformation. And that's what I want to do in the work through my company that we do now, really.

Yoyo: 50:11

Yeah. No, good for you. Good for you for coming out of it, sharing your journey. And it's just possible as well that other people will listen and think, you know what I'm inspired by Tracy's story. And I think even when we look at previous guests, Jonathan Wilson is another one. It's, it doesn't matter how senior you are. If there is somebody more senior than you, who lacks that critical element of empathy. Thank you Who lacks the ability to treat people like human beings. It doesn't matter how senior you are. You can still have all of those things that make you. Chipped away gradually one by one. Well, listen, well done. I'm sure that people might even want to reach out to you. Tracy Boylan is on LinkedIn. We will put your LinkedIn profile on your bio when people access the podcast. And we'll also try and get some newspaper articles as well, Tracy, for people to read up on how the story was made public as well. Thank you. Thank you very much. Oh, it's a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us on the Security Circle. All the best.

Tracy: 51:16

All the best. Thanks, guys. All right. Good day, everybody. Bye.