The Security Circle
An IFPOD production for IFPO the very first security podcast called Security Circle. IFPO is the International Foundation for Protection Officers, and is an international security membership body that supports front line security professionals with learning and development, mental Health and wellbeing initiatives.
The Security Circle
EP 092 Mike Bluestone MA CSyP, FSyl, Executive Director Corps Consult: ‘The Security Journey of a Lifetime’
Mike Bluestone MA CSyP FSyI
I am an award-winning Chartered Security Professional with over 35 years’ experience in the private security sector. I served as Chair of the Security Institute from 2008 to 2013 and was subsequently appointed Emeritus Chair.
I have had military experience in the UK and overseas and held senior positions in security management including Head of Security for a national community charity. I hold an MA in Security Risk Management awarded by Loughborough University and am a member of the London Resilience Academic Partnership. I am an Associate Member of the Association of Security Consultants and a former member of the Governing Council, as well as being a former Vice–Chair of ASIS UK Chapter 208.
Over the past three decades I have developed courses for both security and non-security personnel and in 2005 founded the Central Academy of Security Excellence (CASE).
A key part of my work involves advising corporations in both the public and private sectors on a range of security risk and resilience related issues and I have provided security training courses for a number of major corporations and HM Government departments.
I have written numerous articles on corporate security and related topics, and in 2007 I produced a Good Practice Guide to Security Management for Facilities Managers. I have lectured at the American Intercontinental University, the Foretags University in Sweden, as well as at the UK Defence Academy, and presented at a number of UK and overseas security seminars and conferences.
I am a regular Judge for the UK Security Excellence Awards and am the approved trainer in Security Management for the Institute of Workplace and Facilities Management, and aMember of the Security Strategy Group of the British Standards Institute. I was Panel Leader for producing BS16000:2015 ‘Security Management and Operational Guidelines’, a role which led to my appointment as the Chair of a Technical Committee.
In the summer of 2023, I was appointed as Registrar of the Register of Chartered Security Professionals and a member of the Registration Authority (CSPRA). I am a Governor of Stanmore Further Education College; President of the Corps Veterans Association; and a Vice-Chair and Trustee of AJEX Veterans charity. In my ‘day-job’ I am the Executive Director of Security Consulting with Corps Security.
Security Circle ⭕️ is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers
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Yoyo:Hi, this is Yolanda. Welcome. Welcome to the Security Circle podcast. IFPO is the International Foundation for Protection Officers. And we are dedicated to providing meaningful education and certification for all levels of security personnel and make a positive difference to our members, mental health, and wellbeing. Our listeners are global. We are thrilled. They are the decision makers of tomorrow and today. And we want to thank you wherever you are for being a part of the Security Circle journey. If you love the podcast, we are on all podcast platforms. Subscribe, like, comment, and share. You know the deal. So today we finally made it. My special guest, Mr. Mike Bluestone, Executive Director of Corps Security, experienced, award winning, charter security professional with a demonstrated history of leadership and the ability to deliver practical solutions. Shall we see what he's got today? Welcome to the Security Special Podcast. so
Mike:much. Absolutely delighted to be here and been looking forward to this a week actually. It's been a really sort of challenging week with all sorts of things going on. great to chill out with you and just have a chat.
Yoyo:Oh, it's super cool to have you. Mike, I've got to ask you, you're what you, you Mike Hurst would say is a stalwart in the security industry. What do you love about the security industry so much?
Mike:Oh, it's very easy to answer that. It's the people. It's the, it's the people. I mean, honestly, I, I, I think in all of my 30 plus years in the corporate sector, there's probably just a handful of people that, aren't quite my taste in terms of wanting to interact with them and be friends with them. But I've made so many friends in this sector. So it's been so good to me, which is why I love giving back. to the security sector. I just love it.
Yoyo:You've actually had quite a career. I've lost the words. but you've been very involved, haven't you, with the Security Institute and there will be many people who won't know what the Security Institute does. Give overview, really, about the Security Institute's purpose and what you felt your mission and purpose was while you were there.
Mike:Well, I think it's really important to go back to the beginning of when I got involved with it, and it was, there was a wonderful man who's now retired, and I don't think in the best of health, a guy called Jeff Whitfield, who, at that time, I'm going back to the 1990s, 1990s, and, Jeff was, a sort of, senior security officer. Director for a major global corporation. And he and I were involved with ASIS at the time, ASIS as we used to call it, chapter 208. In fact, I was the 208, and for different reasons, Jeff and I think about another dozen people got together and said, we want to sort of move, move on a bit and set up something which is very much sort of built around the UK security industry needs. And so. He came to me one day and said, look, Mike, we're, we're setting up something called the Security Institute. Would you like to join? And Jeff wasn't someone you refused anything to, because he had that kind of persuasive manner. And I trusted him implicitly and I said, yeah, why not? So I actually, member, I'm a fellow, but I'm member number 20 of the Institute, which today has Getting on for 5, 000 members. And, I got involved with the Institute and, I was invited on to the validation board because some listeners may not know that when you become a member of the Institute, there's three categories, associate member, a fellow, and a volunteer. And there is a validation board that sits to go through every application. And so I came in as a member, and then moved on to become a fellow, got involved with the validation board myself. I sat on that for a number of years, then was invited onto the main board as a director. And then when the second chair, by that time, Jeff had retired from being a chair and then a guy called, wonderful guy called Bill Wiley took over. And when Bill, decided to stand down and did his three or four years, I Asked by my colleagues if I would stand and become chair. So I became chair in 2008 and did that right up until 2013.
Yoyo:wow, you were invited onto the main board. Take us back to that time because it takes a certain type of person to volunteer their time for membership bodies. What was going through your head at that time?
Mike:I think the opportunity to input some ideas and to get what was then a kind of, in inverted commas, unprofessional sector to help professionalize it. I mean, there was a big move at that time, which was, generated by ACIS, and I've really got to give them credit for that, because it's a global organization. and so what we felt at that time We wanted to really get the professionalization process going in the UK, at home first, and then see how we could expand that. And, of course, the Institute went on to, accredit, courses in security management. At level three, level five, level seven. during my time as chair, we were producing, guides, security guides on all different subjects, whether it was man guarding at the time and CCTV and all this kind of thing. And I must say in those days, the guides were hard copies. they weren't even digital at that time. there were interest groups. There were social events. There's so much going on and, the growth started and of course the big thing, for me during my time at the Institute was the launch of the Registry of Chartered Security Professionals, which happened in 2011. And that was a kind of joint venture between us and the Worshipful Company of Security Professionals who own the charter. And the then master, Don Randall, approached me and said, look, Mike, can the Institute develop this thing and set it up and run it? And I said, of course we can, Don. And I said, when do you need it ready by? He said in 12 months time. So then when he walked out the room, I sort of bit my finger and thought, what have I just signed up to? We've got to get this going in 12 months, but I was surrounded. You see, you're surrounded by wonderful people, people like Di Thomas and David Gill and Gary Evanson and Jerry Woods. I mean, so many wonderful people, Mike O'Neill, they're all there. And Dr. Alison Wakefield, she went off and led an academic research group to, to look into it. I had two other working groups, Gus Darroch, Warren was in there. I I can name dozens and dozens of people and I apologize for any, I can't remember immediately, but I was surrounded by all these wonderful people that were helping us to get it going. And we did it in 12 months. We got that register up and running and, I then died Thomas general manager, then turn around and said to me, Well, Mike, you better get yourself chartered, too. And I said, well, hang on a minute. I can't be number one, can I? Because people will think Bluestone set this thing up for his own benefit. So I said, let's get six people through to become Chartered Security Professionals, and then I'll do my bit. And that then happened. so I'm number seven. And, I had to put myself through the process because it was quite daunting. Because can you imagine if I wouldn't have got through? it would have been quite embarrassing.
Yoyo:Let's not even imagine. But I'll tell you what has been funny for me listening to you is that I do feel that we're on the Graham Norton security edition of the name droppings, so funny. But look, you're right, surrounded by wonderful people is something you said, and I'm thinking it wouldn't be so engaging, so easy to collaborate. without being surrounded by wonderful people. But Mike, I only realized I was surrounded by wonderful people when I joined a security membership body. And I joined ASIS and it was chapter 208, which everybody knows is London. And from that point, my life changed. It was literally, I felt very lonely until I joined a membership body. And I've often said, I'm surrounded now by lots of people who love what I do, just like me. And I've always advocated joining more than one membership body. Join as many as you can afford. What's your view about that?
Mike:No, I agree, and I think you're right there to say to join as many as you can afford because, everyone's got a budget to work to, and, it's no good having a champagne taste if you've got a beer budget. So You know, but there's so many other good organizations out there. I might have name drops, not sort of for the purposes of name dropping just because I love all the people I've mentioned, plus all the hundreds of others that I interact with. I was a member of IPSA, for many years. I was involved with ACES, the Institute. Now I'm involved with the register. And, I'm looking at the IFPO and the work that you're doing. I was also very heavily involved with the ASC, the Association of Security Consultants, was on their board for a while. And they also were very kind to me and gave me an award some years ago. I just think, when you give back, you get something out of everything you do. because, there's not enough kindness in the world, Yo Yo. Really, there isn't enough kindness. And I think that we are in a protective industry, aren't we? We're supposed to be protecting people and assets. And so I think there is a kind of feeling that we look out for each other. I certainly sense that.
Yoyo:I think good security professionals have it built in this natural protective instinct. They also tend to have this, this purpose trigger. what we have to do has to be purposeful, because crikey, if it's not, we can all go a little bit stir crazy.
Mike:Actually, that's why at the tender age that I'm at, I'm still working. I'm probably one of the oldest out there that's still sort of practicing security.
Yoyo:You don't look it, Mike, at all. Yeah,
Mike:well I know, I know I am. Is this,
Yoyo:is this because you've won a few Lifetime Achievement Awards, you're starting to sort of, think you're older than you are?
Mike:Well, this, I've run, I've won two Lifetime Achievement Awards, two years on the trot, and I think they're trying to tell me something, which is Yeah. maybe Bluestone, your time is up to move over, but all it does it just, it just keeps stimulating me to carry on. So if that's the purpose of the awards, they're not working.
Yoyo:It's, unfortunately the lifetime achievement award always does tend to go to somebody more seasoned, rather than a newcomer for obvious reasons. I have been very lucky to be surrounded by other. winners of Lifetime Achievement Awards. And you can see the years of dedication, even 33 years. Any regrets, Mike?
Mike:No, none, none at all. But, unfortunately, I'm a little bit of a perfectionist, so when I look back on everything that I might have done and not done, I'm always thinking I could have done it a bit better, which is not, not a great sort of character trait. but no, I've got no, no regrets whatsoever. And my intention is I'm still keeping going. I mean, I'm loving my role as registrar of the register and meeting more new people. And that's more of a global thing. Because we've got quite a lot of members overseas. The other passion that I have, as you probably know, is helping young people up the ladder. And this week, for example, I had a wonderful experience in my day job, hosting some young people from the EY mentoring program. And they're so smart, these youngsters, they're so switched on and, young people get a bit of a bad press sometimes because of, what's perceived to be all this violence going on out there and knife crime and what have you. And sadly, that is a reality, but there's so many better ones out there. There's so many good youngsters out there that want to get on. And it's been a real privilege for me this week to sort of host some of these youngsters at my company, of course, security, and it's inspiring. It really is inspiring.
Yoyo:Is this the same program that Paul Barnard was involved with the EY
Mike:the one leading it from my company's point of view is my colleague Seetan Vasani, who I think has done one of these podcasts with a good self in the past. And Seetan has been a sort of a thought leader on that program and it was my privilege to get involved with it and support the program.
Yoyo:Yeah, isn't he wonderful? And I say that purely from a professional perspective because not only do I know lots of people that work with him, but I've met him in person and he is just what And he's so thoughtful and compassionate and just determined to make a change. Look, there's lots of things going on, isn't there, with Corps security. You are one of the companies I would say that has the most individuality and in a market that's quite congested with everybody delivering a very similar service, it's important to stand out and have principles and values, isn't it?
Mike:It is because, I only want to associate with people who share. The same sort of view on ethics and integrity. And that's what I find a Corps. I mean, it's coming up to 15 years. I think in March that I've been with Corps and it's been a really exciting journey. I set up a consulting department there on my own, which today consists of seven or eight people. And the. history of Corps is fascinating. I mean, I don't know if but it was set up in 1859. So it's technically the oldest security company in the world. And it was there to provide work for returning amputees from the Crimean war, which is fascinating when you look at what's happening now with the war in Europe with Ukraine and so on and the Crimea and really sort of interesting to see how the circle's gone. But even today once the Tupi laws came in, Sorry, that's the dog barking in the background. My apologies. Do you mind closing the door? Because, yeah, okay. So, oh lord. The thing is that the company was set up to be exclusively for members of the arm, veterans of the armed forces and so on. But once the Tupi laws kicked in the 1980s every new contract that we took over would have a team that would, we'd absorb into the company. And if they hadn't served in the military, obviously by law, we'd take them in. But even today, with the laws having caused that change in the process, 500 of our 3000 security officers. RX services and whether they've been in the regulars or the reserves in my case. And that's a great thing. And so we've got our own Corps veterans association which I was asked to be come the president of a couple of years ago. We've got our own standard, our own flag, as well as the Corps security standard and flag. And so we get out there on, the British Legion parade once a year down at the Senate off and we march in our uniform and all the rest of it. But there's a great. ethos at Corps, which, as you say, is quite unique.
Yoyo:I'd like to talk to you a little bit more about the sort of security culture because you've always talked, haven't you, about there being low levels of training and security awareness.
Mike:Yeah. that's another one of my my favorite topics, which is the security culture and training and awareness. And I think that, you cannot have a good security program and the right security measures in any organization, however big or small, if you don't have correct, appropriate and balanced security culture. And I think it's just like anything, when I'm out there doing my day job, advising companies and individuals and whoever it may be about their security. First thing I want to know is to learn about their business, not about their security. I want to learn what they do and what makes them tick and what their culture is. And it's only in that way that you can actually design. And craft the right security measures for that organization
Yoyo:I want to expand on this because I first had my eyes opened about this with a boss that I used to work with Tim when I was with the ISS.
Mike:Yeah.
Yoyo:And they were quite revolutionary, very progressive. They said, when you ask a security officer who's standing a receptional day what their purpose is, it isn't just to check ID badges. It's to enable people to do their jobs. Well,
Mike:that's absolutely right, which is training for the security officers is so vital. But equally, I would turn that around the other way and say that if you've got, premises with 2, 000 occupants, 2, 000 people, and you've got two security officers, you've then got 2, 002 people. That can engage in the security measures. So by raising the awareness of all the other members of that team that work there, to look out for suspicious activity, to report things they're not happy about, to input something they may have learned about something going on in the area. That way you raise the culture so that the security team have got people behind them. I mean, I remember doing some security training at an iconic London site some years ago. And so we trained up the team and I said to the client, look, what about your front of house staff, the receptionists? They are at risk because they're the first humans that anyone will see coming onto your premises. So let's get them involved in the training as well. And so these receptionists got involved in the training and joined my security officers for that. And they were sort of. So switched on to security that they were getting more and more involved in it themselves and pointing out to the security officers things that they felt might be suspicious. So it was broadening that whole engagement in security. By everyone that works in an organization.
Yoyo:You talk about educating people to be security eyes. And this is incredibly relevant when you consider the most recent news story in
South port..
Yoyo:So, not as a Corps employee or member of staff, but just as a security professional. We've gone into a space here where I think we're going to need to educate some dance instructors, not to necessarily shut everybody inside a hall when they're doing a Taylor Swift recital with seven to nine year olds, because that's not really very safe if there was a fire. Yeah.
Mike:Yeah.
Yoyo:But how do we encourage them to be more vigilant? I don't want those people seeing a boy who's of a different presentation, a different ethnic minority, and automatically think of him as a weapon to those children. But, We have to encourage more people to be security eyes, and this is a classic example of it going wrong in a community. I'm at a loss to think how we even mitigate against this going forward.
Mike:obviously it's not necessarily the topic for today, but that's partly what Martin's law is about. the new legislation that it will address raising awareness. and some basic levels of training for organizations with small numbers. And whilst you're quite right, the last thing we want is to be having everything locked up and out of sight. That's crazy. So I think there's a lot of good free advice out there that the police and authorities have now launched with various, online training programs which are free to organizations, however small they might be. but going back to the whole piece about identifying. Who's going to call you, cause you trouble. This isn't about ethnicity or anything else. It's about behavior. And it's about people just not looking right because of the way they're behaving. It's got nothing to do with their background. And so, I think that there are some very simple skills that we can impart to people. I mean, behavioral detection has become, has really grown in sort of intensity. And popularity over the past few years because people that penny has dropped. Why is it important? Why is it important? Because, at the end of the day, if you can't spot someone that's kind of whose behavior is threatening, what are you going to be looking for? Because if this is we're in a world where it's people that cause trouble. And we've got to start by understanding who are we inviting on welcoming into our environment? Who are we bringing into our premises? And you've got to go about that in a very in a very defined, fair and sophisticated manner.
Yoyo:We all know that Martin's Law is never going to be able to get everybody all the time at the right time. But I love this concept of there being a layer upon layer of knowledge, understanding and awareness. That's what Ordinary people who would never be exposed to security can develop into becoming those extra security eyes.
Mike:We
Yoyo:already know that most of these, let's just take this woman dance instructor. We know that she's got safeguarding skills anyway, right? So she's 80 percent of the way there. Absolutely. Right. We're just enhancing the skill set. They already abide and believe in
Mike:yeah. It's interesting because actually I'm a So one of my voluntary roles, I'm a governor of a further education college. So I've had to undergo all the safeguarding skills as well. And so there's a great acquired absolute spot on there. There's a great. relevance and crossover between some of those skills, knowing to be able to identify when a student needs help, even though they're not actually going out asking for help, by the fact they're turning up late for college, and they're leaving. I mean, we had an award ceremony at the college that I'm involved with recently, where some of the students that were given awards, weren't there at the award ceremony. And the reason for that is some of them are the only breadwinners. in that household and they have to go home or their carers themselves, but going back to that point. So one of the fundamental differences between the security sector and the health and safety sector is that there is no mandatory. Health and security act for security, there is for health and safety. So in the world of health and safety, it's, you won't go into many premises these days where there's going to be too many trips and falls because the law says if people are tripping over and falling over in your premises, cause you're negligent, you're going to be taken to court or a tribunal. That isn't the case in security, there needs to be some mandatory stuff. So that people have some guidelines within which to comply and operate.
Yoyo:Yeah, agreed. And you're spot on about there being nothing compulsory for the security industry. It's almost heavily relied on self regulation, hasn't it really?
Mike:Yeah, it has. And, I'm a big fan of the onion skin principle. I developed my own eight principles of security, a hundred years ago, whenever it was. And that, and I did that simply so that there was a platform. That underpins the advice that I'm giving to my clients, because, we're not able to point, are we, to a piece of legislation. that says you've got to do it this way or that way. What we do have, however, in this country, and we have it internationally, of course, are the British standards and the international standards. And some of those are really good, but they're not mandatory. That's the thing. They're guidelines and advice. And so, it's only when you are compelled to do something that you're going to have to get it right or face the consequences of if it all goes wrong.
Yoyo:Yeah. In fact, you've only got to look at Stockport and what happened in the Manchester airport where police were involved and have become subjected to some heinous attacks. I mean, just hearing that 50 police officers were injured in
South port.
Yoyo:is shocking.
Mike:And
Yoyo:nobody really wants to see that unless you belong to a very small minority of far right wing extremists. Thugs, I should add on to the end of that. When it got to Stockport, even I was thinking, why wasn't the police thinking about a mitigation in case, because of the ethnicity of the suspect involved or the perceived ethnicity, why was there no so I'm thinking now, broadly, when you look at this from a security perspective, because it did impact security, in fact, lots of things in the news recently have, I'm thinking, what happens if we're not progressive enough to stay on top of what's happening with social media, how social media is influencing, how the impact of that social media is influencing communities and people, and that, and, protagonist groups.
Mike:We've
Yoyo:got to. We've got a way to go, haven't we, really?
Mike:We have. I mean, I think the police, and it depends on which police force, of course, but I think the police generally are getting pretty, pretty pretty cute on monitoring social media and being ahead of the game with intel, as are other agencies on these kind of things. I don't want to sort of cross over in this chat today into policing too much, but I think one of the things that's lacking in the UK is some standardization in terms of, dealing with public disorder. And I think, that One of the, one of the issues is, is that if you look at a country like France and whether you think it's good or bad, and I'm not sitting here today giving an opinion either way, but at least they do have specific crowd control and riot control units, which are there the whole time on standby to deal with these things. And is it really appropriate for, Community police officers to suddenly find themselves jumping from dealing with, vehicle crime and a burglary, or even, even a violent crime, but then having to suddenly sort of morph into a public order officer lined up. with sCorpss of other colleagues in riot gear, when, which you may only wear every, now and again, or in some cases with no riot gear. And, and we've even seen, haven't we, the controversies over the past few days, saying, well, why is it that in one incident, they were all geared up in riot gear and helmets and batons, and in the other one, they weren't. And so I think that we need to as a country, we need to look at that. And I think the security sector does have a right to open its mouth on that one too.
Yoyo:Yeah, I agree. There's lots of learnings and that's why I brought it up really. I think we can see the lack of systematic approach. uniformity, that there was definitely a disalignment, I think, in relation to identifying perceived responses or having a preparedness plan, because those disturbances, those public disorders do affect our clients and our businesses. And I remember turning up to Leeds once to go and see one of the big six accounting firms when there was a huge, huge, it wasn't just a boil, it was the other one. I don't want to even give them a name. And I had huge disruption just getting from the train station to the business premises because of the cordons and and the craziness. And most people don't want this. But what I did like was the clear communications top down from our government, whether you like Kistamer or not. He said there's a difference between peaceful protesting and thuggery. And I liked the distinction. He communicated brilliantly so that people were like, okay, we've got that nice and clear. Yeah. I, I felt it felt like harmony.
Mike:And of course, these arguments can get complicated. I mean, if we look at what's been happening in London and some of the other big cities over the past few months with large scale protests and stuff, is for example, throwing paint all over the front of a bank or throwing it over the roads or the traffic stops, is that going to help your cause? even if you do define that as peaceful protest. So, it, it's kind of sometimes difficult, isn't it, to define what's peaceful, what's disruptive, and what's positive thuggery. And so I think, we, it's a real challenge to get those pieces right.
Yoyo:Yeah, including for our guys on the front line who, let's face it, they have a very tough job, especially if they're in Canary Wharf or in any high profile district, when you see some odd behaviors, and this is it's about observing odd behaviors. It's out of the norm, supporting and training them to detect those odd behaviors as quickly as possible. What you don't want is a massive sit in protest in your reception area. They've got to be, they've got to be very tuned in, haven't they, to responding quickly.
Mike:and I'd like to say on that, that I think one of the roles of private security officers that's really understated, and it's not always stated, is the role in crime prevention. Now, I think someone's probably going to correct me on this, on the numbers here. I think nationally, there's about 140, 150, 000 warranted police officers in the country, but there's close on 400, 000 private security officers. And that excludes those who are in house. We don't have to be licensed under the act. And so you've got 400, 000 people out there all the time. Who are within their organizations, their businesses, the shops, offices, whatever they are, they have the thin blue line. Within those organizations, deterring crime, deterring all sorts of negative activity. And, it's about time that we, we recognize that on a big scale and the government recognizes the part that private security officers play in keeping the country safe, because it cannot be on the shoulders of the police alone. And they're the first organization to say that they need to work with partners. And we are probably the biggest partner. Of the police service now. And, but here I'm being very clear in that it's not, we're not there to enforce the law. We are there to protect people and to protect assets and premises. So it's not our job to run after people and arrest them, but it is our job to, to, to do what we're, we're paid to do. And I think that that needs, that needs to be recognized on a much bigger level.
Yoyo:Do you remember the old days when security officers used to run after bandits that just nicked in their store?
Mike:Yeah, I remember seeing a video from what I can't mention the name of the client, but it was a big store somewhere in London. And they showed me that when I was called in to give them some advice, they played back a video. And you saw these two security officers run out into the traffic, which had come to a halt, chasing these two shoplifters, bouncing across the bonnets of cars. And I thought, yeah, there's definitely a need for some retraining on that one.
Yoyo:Yeah, it's a bit Starsky and Hutch going on. Although I don't think I could, even in my police day roll across a bonnet succinctly without causing the cast. More like my face flattered all over the windscreen. But so look times are changing. In fact, new words get introduced all the time. We've talked about the meaning of pracademic. So there is an argument to academic leadership and there's a very big significance to practical leadership. But pracademic is a combination of the two, isn't it Mike?
Mike:It is. And I've got to tell you when, I went off and did my masters in 1990 something. And you could really count on probably a few hands. the number of security professionals senior managers that had an academic call in security security management. Loughborough, where in those days the faculty was called the CHARM Center, the Center for Hazard and Risk Management, because it included health and safety, waste management, and security management, all under different lecturers. And they were the pathfinders. But of course, it was early days. If you fast forward to now. You've got thousands of people in the security sector with security related academic quals and with a lot of very good high level professional security quals, which are all credited against the National Framework, whether it's level 3, what have you, and the Security Institute got theirs and, you've got CPP from ACES and so many others to mention. There's been a huge progress, over the past 30 years. In the private security sector, we need to keep reminding ourselves and pattern ourselves on the back that significant progress has been made where I want to see more progress. And I know this is where your organization comes in and many others is to get the bridge that gap between people coming in at security officer level. And getting them, get that career path development ladder in place where they can get up that ladder and reach the dizzy heights of being a consultant, a director or whatever themselves. It is starting to happen, but there's more, there's a lot more work to be done there.
Yoyo:Yeah, I like your thinking there because I think in the past, certainly within the security officer provision. I lost great security officers. Dedicated, passionate, turn up no matter what weather because we didn't provide a career track for them. And they've gone and given that value to another industry or another company. And it's such a shame, but
Mike:you
Yoyo:know, there is no quick win, but when you've got Corps principles and Corps values in place, it's got to be. easier. We'll make sure that anybody who's listening can reach out to Corps security and look at their vacancy board, for example. One of the very few security companies that I would recommend purely because I'm biased. I obviously know Paul Lotter and I know C tan and Chris Middleton and there's a few others, James Henderson,
Mike:You've got all my friends and colleagues, all my friends and colleagues. We're
Yoyo:working around to getting them all on the Security Circle podcast,
Mike:going back to your academic point, I just wanted to say that, what I've, in fact, my wife is in, in the next room, also on the team's Corps, working away. But when I sort of reached diploma level at doing my sort of postgraduate studies, I said, I think I'm going to knock it on the head now. I think that's enough. And she said, no, no, no, you go ahead and do it. Complete the dissertation and get the full master's because that's really going to help you. And it really did. And I think that the combination of, the lifetime's experience with the academic research stuff really puts you in a, in a place where you, yeah, you could call yourself a pro academic. Why not? I certainly don't regard myself as an academic because I'm not sitting within the framework of an academic environment. But having that, that masters has been good for me. And I look around at all my colleagues that do the same thing. And I know they share that view as well.
Yoyo:So one last area that I want to talk to you about, you might be thinking, what's she going to ask me now? You are providing a consultancy. What are clients or prospective clients in a bit of a a muzzy fuddle about at the moment looking for? What are they looking to communicate and how do you attract clients with what you do?
Mike:Well, I think you've hit on the key word that's the most important word, I think, in the world of security, probably in most professional sectors, which is communications. And I think that one of the reasons why, I mean, I've had clients when they've used our services at Corps on the consulting side, they like the way we Prepare our reports, because it's one thing to get people in to look over your premises and do all the walkthroughs and take all the photographs and all the research at the end of the day. What are you going to produce? And I've had clients say to me. What we like about it is that we can actually read your reports. They talk to us and they can actually give us a picture of what we need to change. So, Yeah. And that's another thing that a large part about professional security management and the world of resilience is change management. It's changing as we're going back to the beginning of this conversation, changing the culture and actually coming up with solutions. Which address the needs of that particular business or organization. So I think they like to use this because we were able to tailor the solutions that match the business interests of the organization.
Yoyo:Communications in that way is spot on. And you're an expert to talk to this, but communicating internally to your employees is also important. Maybe there is something you want to deliver to them when maybe, I don't know, we get Paul Otter to add this link to the digital newsletter. So people internally can hear what, what, what do you want your employees? To feel most importantly, certainly about working for Corps.
Mike:Well, we have a simple philosophy, which is that, we believe we look after our colleagues. We look after our clients and customers who look after us. It's that kind of circle of care. And we really do practice it. I mean, one of the things I introduced to Corps was a lot of internal training that went beyond what I hate this term, minimum standards. So, you get licensed officers that have to do the basic training. Admittedly, the SIA have, to their credit, introduced a refresher training over the last few years, which I've done because I've also got a frontline license. And because why shouldn't I, because when I go on site if something happens, I want to be able to assist my colleagues and I can't do that without a frontline license. So, I think that. We've worked very hard within Corps to improve internal communications. We have someone dedicated to that, that works for us full time, that deals with internal comms. We do a lot of training ourselves to colleagues, a lot of upskilling. We can always be doing more. But I think we've been pacesetters. I think we've been pacesetters in, in that sense for a number of years. And I think that. It's the kind of organization where, however senior you are, you don't go and visit a site where we're guarding without going into the control room and sitting down and having a chat with them and talking to every officer on site and shaking their hand before you leave the site. That's really important.
Yoyo:It's important for them to be seen, and for you to be seen by them, and to be heard. It's about
Mike:being valued as well. Yeah. Because we do genuinely value what they do. They're at the front end. Go back to this thin blue line, in terms of deterring crime and whatever negative activities out there. And the whole role in national crime prevention.
Yoyo:The only subject we haven't talked about is mentoring. You've been a very strong advocate of mentoring, haven't you?
Mike:I love it. I love it.
Yoyo:So I have to ask you, why is it that on occasion I've come across men who are a little bit embarrassed to say they have a mentor? Whereas I know that the women in my circle are like, yeah, I've got a mentor. My mentor's awesome. It's not stigma attached to being mentored, surely?
Mike:No, I don't think there is. I love mentoring because you, you watch people develop. And I've seen that over the years. I've had someone that I mentored some years ago in a very low level way. It was just a few hours of my time when this person was very young and they worked their way up the ladder to a very senior role with government. And they approached me a few years ago to talk to me. And as a result of that conversation his majesty's government was then her majesty's government. Now his majesty's government started to buy into the whole chartered security professional piece. So when you mentor people, you never know where it's going to lead. And so I have no problem being mentored myself. And I've got to say that a lot of the people I've mentored and people who receive mentoring through the other organizations I work with, there's no embarrassment factor about me mentored. it's people going out of their way to share their good and best practice, whatever you want to call it, their knowledge. Why wouldn't you want to take that? And why wouldn't people like me want to give it and share it?
Yoyo:I've mentored some people and I'm thinking, crikey, they might offer me a job one day.
Mike:I think somewhere in the Bible, I don't want to get into that, it says the joy is in the giving, not the receiving. And actually, isn't it nicer when you give someone something, and you see how happy they are, because you can see the smile on their face. And, I just think it's nice to be giving and watch people. really get on and reach the dizzy heights of wherever they want to get to. And I see this all the time.
Yoyo:Do you know, though, I think giving is always fruitful in the sense of, I took a year out and did a lot of pro bono stuff and the dividends were amazing. And I think the more you give and the more you volunteer and sometimes the harder it is. The dividends are even greater. I ended up having a conversation with a colleague of ours who's just gone out
Mike:on his
Yoyo:own with a security consultancy. And I said, you've got to do a lot of giving, right? Start getting it out there. What you're really good at offer free advice, build your network, go to everything. There's a lot of opportunities for people who want to to put in and not necessarily receive back out there.
Mike:Yeah every day I'm getting this buzz. I'm seeing colleagues within the company get on and move up the ladder. Sometimes they move on and leave and they get an opportunity elsewhere. But we, we like to see colleagues get on, however long they're going to be with us. If they then move on and get something even bigger and better somewhere else,, that's fine. And sometimes they come back. As well and come back to more senior roles. So, yeah, it's, watching people develop in this very unusual industry that we have is a great thing to see.
Yoyo:So anybody if you're in a one mile radius of where Mike Bluestone is and you feel some buzzing, it's him still buzzing about the security industry. Mike Bluestone. Thank you so much for being a guest on the Security Circle
Mike:podcast. Thank you for inviting me. It's really enjoyable.