EP 108 Strength Through Struggle: Chris Middleton on Security & Self-Reflection

BIO

Chris Middleton is a highly accomplished Chartered Security Director with over two decades of experience in driving strategic initiatives and safeguarding organizations of all sizes.

His career has been marked by a commitment to excellence, challenging the status quo and driving positive change, along with a focus on giving back to others.

He has been asked to sit on several advisory boards and thought leadership panels. He has been recognized for his contributions to both the security and facilities management industry, winning awards including the highly prestigious OSPA award in 2022. Through his career he has been fortunate enough to have held senior security & facilities management roles working for large professional service firms, EY, PwC, Deloitte, and Marsh & McLennan.

Security Circle ⭕️ is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers

Transcript

0:01

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Yoyo: 0:44

Hi, this is Yolanda. Welcome, welcome to the Security Circle podcast. You are in the right place. The award winning Security Circle podcast, I should say. IFPO is the International Foundation for Protection Officers, and we are dedicated to providing meaningful education, information, and certification for all levels of security personnel and make a positive difference where we can to our members mental health and well being. Our listeners are all around the world and they are the decision makers of tomorrow and today and we want to thank you wherever you are for being a part of the Security Circle journey. podcast we are on all podcast platforms and don't forget. To subscribe or even better, just like comment and share the LinkedIn post. You know I did make a promise in the end of 2024 that I would bring a number of treats to you in 2025. Oh boy, do you have a treat today? We finally pinned him down the one and only the very busy Chris Middleton, how you doing? Welcome to the Security Circle podcast.

Chris: 1:51

Well, that's quite an introduction. yoyo So, uh, thank you. I'm doing very well and delighted to be here. Finally, as you said, it's been a, been a long time coming, but not through any fault of you trying to get me on here. Just me being my usual, self of trying to stay in the shadows.

Yoyo: 2:06

I have my tactics. I haven't had to pin anyone down or look them in a room yet. I'm still prepared.

Chris: 2:13

That's probably for another podcast.

Yoyo: 2:15

Some people will know I am prepared to go to those lengths. But look, this is a good time to ask you how you feel 2024 went, both as an avid professional of security, yourself, and also, how 2024 delivered in terms of what we're delivering in a security industry?

Chris: 2:36

terms of my own personal journey in 2024, for those that know me and those that follow me on LinkedIn will know, I'm a man that will always speak from a position of truth, and integrity it would have been very easy for me to have, finished the year on LinkedIn or other platforms with a whole self appreciation of how great I am and I'm living my best life and, that kind of rhetoric that we tend to see that's become quite normal now. I just felt that whilst I've had a good year, on a personal level,, there were a number of areas for me that I personally felt that I'd come up short of my own high standards. And I felt the need to just speak to a small group of people that are on LinkedIn and other places to let them know that they're not alone in this feeling of trying to Probably fit into the security society that we operate in and comparing themselves and looking at people's achievements throughout the year. On a personal level, my personal journey within the world of security was by far by my standards. It was a very lackluster year for reasons that I covered on the LinkedIn post and then from a. Industry perspective. I felt it was probably the flattest year that I'd seen in terms of the industry coming together and really doing stuff. I know there's always, lots going on in our industry. I just felt that it wasn't the best year for us. And I'm hoping that 2025 is a year of, real action and not talk.

Yoyo: 4:11

We, we do belong in the optimists club. I think most people in the security industry belong to the optimists club to be honest with you. Your post though was a particularly special one because you did take a very different approach. You decided to highlight where you feel you'd failed. Didn't you? Why did you take that approach and why was it so important to highlight? Where things didn't go well,

Chris: 4:37

I think for me, as it always does, some people, can go on to a social media platform, they can just put content out and it comes to them very easily. Anything that I've, put on any social media platform always comes from a place of, from the heart, it's something that drives me inside, where if I keep thinking about it, I have to do something with it is usually my standpoint. That post whilst it was probably one of my more. Precarious ones that I've probably put out from a career perspective. you always have to think of the audience and think, in, in five years time, having listened to some of your other speakers in five years time, the digital footprint, some future employer could look at that and go, Oh, we really like this guy, but, let's look at his digital footprint. Oh, let's look at his LinkedIn. Oh, he's got some really interesting posts, and topical. It always comes back to me, as a point of integrity of, Firstly, it's I speak for those that can't speak that's really always my message. I always think of things and think I'm not alone here. This won't be unique to me, but hopefully what it does do is inspires others to kind of go. Wow. Do you know what? That took bravery to do it. I don't think it's brave. Personally. Lots of people think it is. But I hope that it speaks to people in a positive way and I hope it allows people to go. I've said it a couple of times on LinkedIn in reply to people, but I once saw a quote that said, your story could be the key to unlock someone's prison. That to me is a mental prison, that we find ourselves, stuck in at times. And I hope that by putting that out there, someone could go as they did. Several people did both privately and openly said, you know what? Wow. That, that, that resonated. It spoke to me and wow. for doing that. I couldn't, but thank you for doing it. That's what it's all about really for me. And I suppose in terms of the actual, why did I do it? That was a key factor for it. It's very easy in today's world to look at others and compare yourself and go, here's another post of someone saying, Oh, I've achieved this, or I've won this, or I've six time winner of this and everyone starts to feel, um, You start to have a bit of self-sabotage and you start to look at yourself and go, am I good? And what, what's going on here? And you start to have this. So for me it was about I could have gone, yeah, great year, all these things. And I just thought, you know what, no, I'm gonna break with a dish. I'm gonna disrupt slightly, and I'm gonna come from a place of, self-efficacy. But also just being totally honest and letting people know that you're not alone. For those people out there that are going, am I doing the right thing? Am I competing? And that was, that was really where I came from. I think it's had just over five and a half thousand views. it's not one of my most, recognized posts. The people that did, and the content that came back, there were times I kept thinking I'm going to take the post down, I'm going to take the post down. But then I spoke to a couple of charter security professionals. They said, well done on that post. And that probably gave me the reassurance that I needed from an industry point of view, because I thought, Oh, if anyone's gonna be a bit dubious about the post, it's probably my charter professional colleagues that would go, that's not the sort of stuff that we do. It was well received and that gave me, that gave me some, confidence that it was right.

Yoyo: 7:48

I am disappointed to hear that you even thought about removing it because I think, it's too good. to even think about removing. The reason I say that is because it's relatable. I don't just mean that on the surface of things, you became a five dimensional person. You weren't just the security professional that we all know and love. You were a father, a husband, a football coach, a director, and an individual. You made that post relatable as a five dimensional person instead of a singular. dimensional person. And I think that's what other particularly men would look at when they see that and they would recognize, well, I'm also a father and I'm a me and I'm a husband. I think it makes people think, and I think that's why it did so well. And it had so many comments, which means it had a high level of engagement with your community. So I applaud you on that. I would say, put more out 100 percent Chris.

Chris: 8:50

No, I appreciate that. And I think Whilst I won't go down a route that people may expect me to go down at this point, from a mental health point of view, not within our industry, I hasten to add, or not that I'm aware of anyway, but within, just within the social media platforms that I operate and within my own local, area of Kent, I think I saw In the lead up to Christmas, just between November and December alone, before the post went out, I think I must have seen on average at least three appeals per week of men of my age going missing. There was these constant appeals on Facebook about, this guy's gone missing, please if you see this man, etc, etc. And unfortunately, nine times out of ten,, a week, two weeks later, you'd find that that person was found deceased and through natural cause. I just kept looking at it. I just kept thinking this can't go on. what is going on in these people's minds. And when I then reflected back to myself and I took that as that you refer to that five dimensional approach of if I break it down into the different hats and different roles, I do, How am I doing? How are these guys feeling? What took them to that point that they decided they needed to leave that comfort that they were in? Or maybe it wasn't comfort, whatever was going on, it took them to a place that they felt they needed to go away. And unfortunately for them, they weren't able to come back. That was really probably the catalyst to be going, do I just put something out that everyone would expect and it's kind of, I'm living my best life, or do I bring it back to something that will speak to people and go, yeah, you know what, I failed in my standards. The good news of all these failures is this is what I've learned in the process. And this is from a stoical point of view, you know, from a stoicism perspective, it's how we respond. It's all about perception. Yes. I've literally got, a very good friend of mine has bought me the Daily Stoic, which I'll be picking up, soon. When people interpreted that post, I fully understand that people that know me would have looked at that and gone, is Chris okay? I did get a few phone calls from people going, Are you okay? Are you in crisis? And I said, absolutely not. That post is coming from a position of strength. That's what it was meant to show. It was meant to say, it's all about, we can fail. It's how we respond to that failure. And failure is not always this dirty word of, you're a failure. It's how we respond. And that's really what the message was. And I suppose. If I'm honest with you, as I always have been, there's a drive inside of me that unfortunately, even this year alone, even however many days, seven days plus into this year, I've already seen a few more of those posts, unfortunately saying this guy has been found unfortunately, not living. It's driving me outside of the industry to kind of think, what can I do? Can I set up a men's group in my local area to just give that outlet to men of all different stages of their life? To sort of say, Look, you're not alone. Come and have a chat. Let's see what we can do. So that's where my thought process is going in 2025 outside of the industry for a change. you and I have worked and campaigned, for a long time for mental health and things, but I purposely won't bring it to the industry's mental health. The reasons I've covered a lot of that in the past and, and there's other people now leading that from the work that we did.

Yoyo: 12:11

I know I mentioned Baby Reindeer before we started recording, but what you've said has just resonated with me. I only finished watching it last night, and there will be a huge divide of listeners who have seen it and who haven't seen it. And I would suggest if you haven't seen it, watch it. It's just, you'll find so many people, you just find it so hard to describe. Um one of the resonating messages is that throughout the process, you're watching a character who is very lonely. I think loneliness and an inability to connect with community is an incredibly important factor in today's young man, mature man, or elderly man. I'm just going to focus on men for the purpose of this because the character was male. The character was multi dimensional, had a number of different, Very dynamic characteristics, and the storyline is focused around this individual having a stalker. It's just not a conventional story, and I think critics would look at this and think, What a unique and individual perspective, it's based on a true story. But also I wonder if the writer who is the main actor, Richard Gadd, I wonder if he wanted to deep down highlight the loneliness within men sometimes and this ability to disconnect in community. It's such a shame, isn't it? to discover that that happens. And why? Why does it happen? Chris, can you answer that question while I'm here? I'm quite curious, too curious.

Chris: 13:47

Obviously anything I'll say will come from a point of my own thoughts. I'm not obviously medically trained to, come out with anything other than my own. What I know and the people I move with, but I think there is this, from a male perspective, I think, as I said in my post, we, some people probably don't break it down as I did, but when I look at it, there are all these different hats that we wear. I am a husband, I am, husband, I'm a father, I'm a director, I'm a mentor, I'm a coach, I'm this, I'm that. All of those things at different points, they're all great things that I'm doing, but at some point there can still be an element of loneliness. You can be around all these things and being busy, but you can still at points find yourself feeling quite lonely, just kind of thinking, you know, do I actually fit in or am I, you know, what, where's this all going? And you start to have these periods of self reflection. And unfortunately, I think what happens is, is that self reflection for a lot of people. It takes them down a path that they start to overanalyze, and that's when you come back to comparing yourself to others in your immediate circle, and what are they doing? And well, how comes they're able to have two holidays a year? And I can't. Or how comes they're driving that vehicle? And how comes this? And you naturally start to compare. And I think that's where for men, it starts to get really difficult. And yeah. Again, I had to pop out yesterday in my former coaching role, my final task as a coach to meet the football parents and just have a final goodbye and wish all the boys well, having had to take a difficult decision to step down as the coach. and again, I know it's dry January for a lot of people here in the UK, for listeners here in the UK, we adopt dry January, but the pub I was in is usually absolutely packed and last night we were the only group of people in there and it started a conversation with the males. Funny enough for the group I was with, there was ladies as well, but the male group was saying, Oh, do you remember the days when we used to come in and we used to have a chat and it was a social vibe and it was your outlet was to go out to the pub. And you know, and I think that whole thing is really gone. I think everyone is kind of just started. You know, you go to work, you do your job, you go home, you may have an outside activity or interest. But beyond that, what do you have? And for most people I know, they're literally just going to work, going home, being dad, being husband, being whatever. And they just don't have that outlet anymore. And, and, you know, you're then sending a message. As mayors, we don't tend to send messages to each other and go, you know, on a WhatsApp. Hey, how you doing? We just don't check in on WhatsApp. It's not really our medium. We do like, we like face to face. And. Ironically, I have a very good friend of mine who lost his wife, uh, just over a year ago, uh, to cancer. And, you know, in the beginning, I was like, we must meet up, we must, I kept messaging him, how are you doing, are you okay, yeah, yeah, I'm fine, thanks for checking in, we'll meet up. And then we literally realized on New Year's Eve, we haven't seen each other for a whole year, we're 15 minutes away. And that's just not acceptable, by my standard, again, my standard, not, not referring to my friend, he had a lot going on. But, what was stopping me from physically getting in the car And going over to see him and turning up unannounced and going, we're going out, we're going clay pigeon shooting, which is his favorite thing to do. And I just think that's what happens, Yo Yo, and I think there's, you know, I just think that there is a, there is an isolation, there is a loneliness, and To the outside world, it's about perception, and you know, what people put on social media, as people have always put, you never see anyone saying, well you do, but most people are going, I'm living my best life, look at me. And as I say, coming back to that post, it was all about just letting people know that they're, we've all got a vows. Everyone has a battle. Everyone's got a story. I'm not unique. Most people on LinkedIn are not unique. And it was just trying to let those people know that you're not alone. and just try and look at your situation and reframe that situation from what you perceive as very negative to hopefully something of positivity.

Yoyo: 17:39

I can say that, I would urge the listener now to think what was the one post that you remember from 2024. It was yours going back to that again. And I should imagine a lot of people be very curious at checking out your profile. Um, but it was, it was that, and I even spoke to. friends outside friends, who cross different professional networks. I said, look, there's this one pose that guy listed all his failures. And then he talked about his growth journey. And I just think it was just so poignant. It's not the first time you've put a post up that's left a lot of. Draw breath moments. That was the post you put up previously to that, where we talked about who is quintessentially authentic Chris. This involved talking about why your background was really important to your present. Take us through that.

Chris: 18:31

So that, that would have been, That, that was about my post to do with, being, being a care experienced and for the listener, because even here in the UK, people are not quite sure what that means. So being care experienced effectively means being in foster care. So, you know, you're, you're in foster care because of a situation with your family that your family, mother or father, or both are not in a position to care for you. Put you into temporary state care on that could be for a very short period of time, depending on the situation, or in my case, it could be 15 years and for some, it can be even longer than 15 years. It can also lead to adoption, and I think for me again through my voluntary work that I do and the stuff I'm passionate about. I was talking to a number of care leavers who are young care leavers that are coming out of the care system and finding themselves, you know, up against lots of biases because again, you know, oh, you've been in care. That means you've got baggage. You've got these problems. And unfortunately, I was talking to a number of young people and trying to help mentor these young people and saying, how are you doing? How's it? And they were like, I'm just coming up against this bias. Again, from a negative situation. What I wanted to try and do there was to try and reframe that negativity perception that people have of people who have come from care. Same with rehabilitation of offenders. It's that, it's that same thing, you know, someone's, someone's committed a crime, therefore for the rest of their life. That's it. And, and I'll be very careful here, knowing in your former policing background, a detective for yo-yo, but ultimately the Rehabilitation Offenders Act is there for a reason.'cause certain people can be rehabilitated for me, it was looking at, as an industry, you know, coming from an industry point of view, we do so much work as an industry through mentoring and looking at all new ways of working and trying to, you know, bring in this workforce we've talked so much about how can security be seen as a career pathway? How do we attract that younger group of talent that just doesn't see it as a, as a, as a pathway? It kind of just led me on this journey of looking at these young people and thinking, well, if I look back at my own background and people go, ah, you know, have you done this? And have you done that? It all come from, you know, being in the system, as I refer to, being in that system, everything being stacked against me. Statistics wise, I think it's only 7 percent of people that are in the care system or come out of the care system. Only 7 percent will go on to university. Fact. That is fact. The other sort of perception is most people will end up homeless or go into prison or, you know, have a life of addiction. And she'd probably kill me at this point, but I'm currently mentoring a young lady who is, uh, the young lady inspired that particular post. she lost her brother to suicide, um, quite recently. She was in the care system and she's now come out of the care system. She left school with no GCSEs. She's gone on to do three degrees and now doing a master's. And that in itself is just phenomenal. when I heard her speak, I was like, where does that come from? Where does that come from? it's one thing to leave with no GCSEs, but to do one degree, to go on and do three, and now a master's. And then you've gone off and traveled, and you've done all these things, and you're only 23. Where does that fire come from? Where does that passion come from? It was, you know, because people said she couldn't. It was all because people kept labelling me, Oh, well you're in care, you're that statistic that you'll be on drugs, you'll be this. So she used that negative to drive that passion. When I saw her, I was like, wow, it just inspired me. Then she said, look, would you be my mentor? I was like, I would love to be your mentor. Through that conversation, as I said, I just thought if you look back at our industry or any industry for that matter, And we look at people's lived experience, there is so much good from those lived experience of situations and I, and this is true. And this will come back to my career. I won't mention the gentleman's name. he will know who he is if he's listened to this literally in 2020. So I started the industry in 2003 as a security officer in 2004, I got my first position as a security supervisor. I remember sitting at that panel interview, first time I'd ever had a panel interview, and the question came up, the classic question back then was, can you give us an example of when you've dealt with a difficult situation and what the outcome of that was and how you dealt with it? Bearing in mind at that time, in my early 20s, I hadn't really dealt with anything, not in a leadership capacity, because I'd never been a supervisor or a leader, hadn't really had that much going on that I could really use as tangible, tangible, reason for saying, well, yeah, here's an example, it's tangible. I said, look, this is slightly off the wall, but if you don't mind, can I give you something that's not work related, but it's very personal? And the lead interviewer happened to say, yeah, go for it. No problem. And I said, look, it's a bit weird, but bear with me. And I literally said at the age of 16, I said, I had the very difficult decision of, you know, my dad was terminally ill when I was 16 and I had to help him through his latter stages. Eventually the decision was left with me to say in his final days. As you're, you know, you know, what do you want to do in terms of your dad, in terms of final care, and God forbid, if the inevitable happens, is it a case of resuscitate, don't resuscitate situation. To be presented with that at 16, was a huge, decision. it was, it was one that I had to make, because there was no one else to make that decision. I used that example and the follow on to my father passing and how I dealt with that passing, that was the only tangible evidence I could give about dealing with a difficult situation and how I came out of it. Needless to say, there was no more questions after the interview at that point. I think that was enough in the room to kind of go. I think, yeah, any more questions? No, I think, I think we've got enough. Thank you. We'll be in touch. And I came away going, Oh my God, you know, what, what have I done? Literally. The same day I got the phone call and that manager rang me up and said, Chris, you blew us away. But that example that you gave was the one that really got us, not because it was pulling on our heartstring, but it was just so different. And it was such a positive of how you did it. That was the start of my career into management. It was then thinking back to lived experience of everyone's lived experience. There are so many things that when we could do an interview in today's world, we're so we, you know, we just kind of follow the same pattern that everyone else has done the same question. You could literally list out five questions. Go, Oh, are we still talking? We still use those 20 years on. We're still didn't. Where do you see yourself in 10 years? Where do you see yourself in five years?

Yoyo: 25:00

Let me give you one. Where have you, where have you failed? I'm like, sorry,

Chris: 25:05

yeah, that's one of the ones I use. I love it. I hate it. See, I love it though, Yo Yo. I love it. And the reason I love it is because it completely catches people off guard. Because if you think about the interview process, it's all aimed about, tell us how great you are. That's what it should be. But what I want to understand is I want to understand that, that, I want to see that person. Sort of tell me about, you know, great. You're an academic and great. You've done all these things, but tell me about growing up. Tell me about this. And if I spoke to your friends, what would they really say about you? Because that's the person I want to get to know. Not the academic, not the putting all these certificates and post nominals in front of me. That's great. That tells me you've been on a journey, but the journey I want to know is when things are really going sideways, can I count on you? How are you going to respond in those moments of crisis? And that's the route I go. So I, I unfortunately, in all the time we've known each other, we've never disagreed, but this is probably a way. We

Yoyo: 26:00

do disagree on this very point.

Chris: 26:02

We do. It's a case to agree to disagree.

Yoyo: 26:05

I will back up my statement, Mr. Middleton. You always will.

Chris: 26:08

You always will.

Yoyo: 26:09

I will say. I will say that from my perspective, being a minority in a very male dominated culture and country, in terms of laws, and philosophies and everything else, women who are successful in their careers have failed very little because the minute you do, you are finished. That's it. You are written off as incompetent. You are written off as stupid, a bimbo if you're young. Especially if you have blonde hair. So I think for me personally, and I feel that there may be some other women listening to who might also say, yeah, absolutely. I've had, and even black women and black men would have to work twice as hard not to fail as a white woman. I think when I'm asked, as I have been in several, final stage interviews, where I failed, I've just said, well, what makes you think I failed to sit in front of you ever? Right? Right. Powerful Right, I wanted to share that perspective with you because I think it's become relevant in my journey. But, as arrogant as it can come across to say you haven't failed, it's about the individual journey. I have failed me. I failed me physically. I failed my health. I failed my,, I used to be very active, I used to do a lot of sports and things, and I failed myself, personally. I realise, going into 2025, because this is quite relevant. That I can't keep everything else successful if I don't look after the very core central entity that's keeping all of that going. So there's my focus for 25. What's yours?

Chris: 27:46

My focus for 25 has been, first and foremost, I felt the need coming back to the Post from December, the final post called, you know, a Year of Failure. I felt the need to be a bit more uplifting at the start of the year, because again, going back to, those very concerned colleagues and peers and people that I've known for years, there, there wasn't a genuine concern for people, and that was never the intention of the Post. It was not a, it wasn't a victim moment for me, and, you know, woe is me. Please all reach out. It wasn't that, but I fully understand people's genuine concern, and I'm grateful. I felt the need at the beginning of the year to put out a new post, which was really setting out, you know, what are my principles for this year, and not just this year, these are, these are, as I put them at that post, you know, these are stoic principles that I follow, I appreciate stoicism isn't for everybody, not everybody gets it, that's fine, each to their own, but for me, it was, Really just reaffirming to myself, you know, making a statement of intent because it's absolutely key. If you put it on LinkedIn, it's, I didn't want everyone when I bump into people throughout 2025, first thing that says, are you okay? That year of failure, is it going to be another year of failure? I wanted it to be, Oh, I really liked your post. You start the new year with it. Talk to me about stoicism or talk to me about this and talk to me about that. And I'm delighted to have the opportunity to kick 2025 off, to talk to you about the plans. And I suppose to break it down, yo yo in terms of. From a fitness point of view, because one of the things I didn't do last year was I didn't achieve my fitness goals. You know, I've not started 2025 as most people would right now, hitting the gym, 6am crew. I know there's even people at 5am on the call, I don't want to offend those people. I used to be one of them. I do. I want to offend

Yoyo: 29:19

them a lot.

Chris: 29:20

I used to be the 5am crew, I'm now the 6am crew. But, you know, I found it, my wife said to me, oh, you know, what's the plan? I said, well, the plan is to do exactly what I did last year. Which is, I go to the gym every day. You know, six days a week, sometimes five, but I go six days a week, but I'm not, I'm not competing with anyone. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not competing with the person on the treadmill next to me or the person's pushing more on the bench. You know, I am there turning up. And even if I turn up and only do 20 minutes, the fact is I've got myself out of my comfort zone, which happens to be my bed and I've got up. And I've looked and gone, you know what? I've got to the gym. I've started the days, the classic for our American colleagues, eating the frog moment, you eat the frog, you do the hardest thing on your list of to do list. And if your to do list said, it's 10 things you need to achieve today, but eating the frog is on that list of 10. If you get that done at the first thing that you do, the rest of your day is going to is, and that's proven, you know, from a coaching perspective, that is a proven concept. Um, no frogs were hurt in the, in the, in the making of this podcast. Um, You know, and, and, and really, you know, my wife said, but usually by now you're setting these goals. I said, yeah, no, I've set loads of goals already. I've already set my goals for 2025 and they're all still, I'm still adding to them. You know what they are, you know, is that they are, they are goals and they are milestones. If you'd asked Chris four years ago, he would have said, I have to hit everyone and achieve everyone. And if I didn't,

Yoyo: 30:44

yes, I'd be in a world of pain. I've been a world of pain. Yeah.

Chris: 30:48

What this is, is it's allowing me to go, these are the things I want to do. These are the things I'll set out to achieve, and I will give everything to achieve these things. Some of them I've already achieved seven days in and I'm like, Oh, well that was a bit easy. In terms of, you know, personal, my personal goals are, is, is as always to, you know, to be there for my two sons. One of my sons is trying for the police. He's got his interview this time next week. After failure, funny that, of not him, but the system failing him and interestingly bringing it back to security. The reason that he was rejected for a police constable role here in the UK is because he works in the private security industry, which is

Yoyo: 31:26

ridiculous,

Chris: 31:27

which is you're not allowed because I forget the term and I should conflict

Yoyo: 31:30

of interest.

Chris: 31:31

Yes. And it's on the exemption list. But if you work in private security, he would've got through the process. So the fact he works in a paid role in security, working with police colleagues was the reason he was not allowed to go forward in the process. Look at

Yoyo: 31:45

his transferable skillset for a start. This is, there you go. Outrageous.

Chris: 31:49

There you go. So. By then appealing it, writing to the police and explaining if he was to take this role and was to resign from the role on acceptance of being offered a role, would that allow the system to kind of work? Oh, yes, well, we can do that. Great. So that's where he's at. So I'm there for him. I'm there for my youngest son. From an industry point of view, I'm, I'm, I'm hoping that this is a year of growth in terms of. New things coming to the fore of what we're going to do, not just regurgitation of things that have been kicking around for a while and everyone jumps on the bandwagon and they do it for a while and then kind of get the self appreciation and then, you know, it's kind of, well, I'm not getting back slaps anymore and people not emailing me and asking me to be a speaker and then it goes a bit quiet. So I'm looking at. What can we do? Where's the gaps? Where's the gaps? How can I influence those gaps? How can I help people? Yeah, that, that's it for me, really. That, that's, that's the, that's the thing. The key thing for me, as it always is helping others and giving back. That's it. That's the best gift I can give.

Yoyo: 32:51

So I'm going to refer to your post, with the bit that makes me laugh a little bit is where you say, let's be having you in 2025. What I hear when I see that is let's be having you.

Chris: 33:06

it was very Mickey Flanagan inspired, yo, yo., even though he's from East London, I'm, I'm a proud South London boy from, from Lewisham, it was let's be having you because, you know, again, Over the new year and coming into the new year, speaking with people in my, in my immediate circle, no one was really looking forward to 2025., there, there was this fear of 2025. Oh, here we go. It's the same problems we take from 24 into 25. And woe is the world. I was like, geez, you know, it's like, guys, it's what we make it to some degree. Yes, there are always things outside of our control. There are always those things outside of our control. But it's focusing on the circle of influence of what is in your control. And how we react is what's important. And I just thought, how can I best be summing up 2025? And it's a case of, let's be having you, whatever whatever you got to throw at me, I'm ready. I am ready to, you know, because when I go back to, you know, my, my background and, and, the things I've experienced through lived experience, like many listener, there is pretty much not. You know, I'll be very careful here because it's that old saying, you know, don't tell the world your intentions or don't tell God your plans because, you know, it could go belly up. But ultimately, through what I've experienced through life, you know, there's pretty much not many things left that can kind of derail me when I'm in my best state of mind. Because of the trauma, the things I've seen, the things that's happened, I've come out of all of the other side and. Yeah, I'm better prepared as a result of it, I think. And what I'm trying to say to people is, look, everything is about how we react to it. And I have to be the bigger person and go, okay, yes, that was a problem. What did I learn from that? How do we make sure it doesn't happen again? How do we go forward? And where we can, we share that so that others can learn and don't make the same mistake. Then that's what I meant by let's be having your 2025. And as an industry, what's we doing differently? What are we doing to re look at. You know, previous surveys that the industry has undertaken and all these recommendations were put forward and I won't call out which specific ones, but the people will know which ones that are out there that have been done and again, all these recommendations, all that time spent, but I guarantee if you and I were to do a Google search now, look at those recommendations and then look at how many of those were implemented. None of them will have been implemented. So with respect to those surveys and those initiatives at that time, I've parked those with a view to finding stuff that we can actually bring about making positive change and being the driver as we've always been. Some of you and I have worked a lot on over the years that we've been in the industry.

Yoyo: 35:48

You made a reference to Mickey Flanagan earlier, and I think for those that are across the pond, Mickey Flanagan, look him up. He's got several videos on YouTube, especially for our American listeners because he does this really good sketch about a guy taking his daughter out and having an American dad. It's really rather funny, and if you want to get a good idea about a good old traditional, London geezer, Mickey Flanagan is a man of our comedic generation for sure. I love the way that you've referenced him. You made a very good point really about the industry. And, and I think there are some individuals and I would count you as one of them that, you can literally break your back trying to change things that aren't going well in this industry. And, Then you look at, you know, what. And Figan Murray's done coming into the industry from the outside being a relatively, normal outside the security person and the change she's brought about in, in mindset certainly is remarkable. And some of us have been in the industry for a few decades, and we still are quite skeptical about really seeing any great change. It's too much, isn't it, for any one person to take on? It really does take a community to bring up a child. And I think in that sense, it takes the community to bring about change.

Chris: 37:08

Yeah, a hundred percent. I think Fegan, is somebody that we all., I don't think there's anyone in the industry from the front line right the way through it. If you mentioned Figa Murray, they wouldn't know who she is, and I'm delighted. I've had the pleasure of her company several times. Like I know you have and many others. we've spoken very openly about lots of things, not always about terrorism and other things, but from her background. Previous, you know, we're not her previous background, but her actual profession, you know, psychotherapy. And again, you know, I think of all the times, you know, uh, in terms of LinkedIn, I think I put a post, I think it was actually this time last year, if I remember correctly. Uh, it was when I put a post out about January and plans and gave a bit of context about a back injury that I'd suffered and the injury and the taking nearly two years to get back on my feet and all of the woes of with it. Again, it was meant to be positive and uplifting. And of all the people that commented on that post, it was the first and only post Fegan Murray ever commented on for me. It was something along the lines of, really powerful, this is amazing, well done you. I just had this moment, this pinch me moment, of like, wow, you know, Fegan Murray has, you know, took the time. I didn't see it as, it's Fegan Murray, you know, as in Martin's Law, Fegan Murray. I saw it as Fegan Murray coming from her background in psychotherapy, all the things that she's been involved in with her husband. Then the trauma side of what she's gone through herself as a mum. And for her to then recognize my post in the positive way it was meant. And for her to put her little narrative. It was really, it's probably a career highlight for me is where I'm going with this. I've never told her. And next time I see her I will, I, I need to pass on that message because we're good at telling people, you know, things that are bad, but we need to pass on that message. I suppose, you know, coming back to a little quote, you know, not so much a quote, but again, in, in keeping with this theme, uh, yo, yo, it's a case of, I said it to somebody recently and they said, Oh, I've never seen it that way. It's really a case of anything that life throws us. Are we going through it or are we growing through it?

Yoyo: 39:08

Oh, I love

Chris: 39:09

that. That for me is what it's all about and in all these situations, yes, there are periods where we're going through it and we're trying to go, Christ, how do I get out of this, I can't see the wood through the trees, but when we do come out of it, it's that old saying, it shall come to pass, and it always does, and when it has come to pass, it's then looking back and going, wow, do you know what, I actually grew in that process, that for me, is our industry. That for me is what Fegan's doing. That for me, you know, and what she's been doing is that relentlessness and that tenaciousness that she's just not given up. I think she used the reference of, I can never remember if it's the bee or the hornet, I think it's the hornet, you know, that she talks about like this hornet, this wasp constantly buzzing around, you know, and. That's what it needs. I suppose at times, and I'd never compare myself to Figa Murray in terms of what she's done, but in terms of coming back to what I've personally been involved in the industry, with you, with our other peers, on advisory boards, we saw there was a gap. We saw there was a need. It propelled us to say, we want to be the change. And we drove those changes and allowed others to come on board and that was great. But everything has a life cycle. And I think for me, I get to a point where I kind of go, I've done what I can do with that. my part in this is now done. It's not a reflection of the people I've worked with. It's just the point of, I got to a point. It's now over to you to take it forward. It's fresh input ideas and that's it really. And I think. I welcome that in 2025, I'm always open to ideas and here at Corps, security where I work, we're literally having conversations as we always do around what can we do as a business, what can we do to help the industry. But as you said, the biggest challenge is always is lots of people want to be a part of something until it comes to doing the do. And then when it comes to the output. Those people are no longer available, or the teams call gets declined five minutes before, and that's painful. And, you're then back to, do I keep flying the flag? Do I keep pushing forward, or do we just go, we take the easy road and just say, do you know what, I'm sure somebody else will pick it up. If we were to do that, then we wouldn't have the progress that we've made so far. As always, there's always room for improvement and work to be done.

Yoyo: 41:25

In speaking to Lee Chambers, who's recently been published, he's a male ally advocate for lots and lots of great stuff. I urge every single man to listen to him. He talked about something that resonates very much with what you've just said. When people aren't ready, they're on a different part of their journey, whether it's wokeism or not, or whether it's,, Beliefs and even going into conspiracy theories. Everybody's on a journey and he has this great answer. He just says, sometimes people just aren't ready yet. And if they're not ready, they're not ready. We can help them to be ready, but if they're not ready, they're not ready. I think. I think if we bear that in mind, when we can see somebody's progress, not, moving forward the way it should, we can see somebody's declining meetings. We can see somebody isn't in it for the right reasons. It's a very nice thing to console yourself when it can be frustrating to say, do you know what? You read that Twitter comment or the X comment and there's crazy stuff, trust me, I don't spend a lot of time in there, it's like washing hands in dirty water, but you can look at the things people are saying, yeah, they're on that journey, they haven't got there yet, and it helps me to settle with trying to correct the world when it's going insanely cray cray.

Chris: 42:43

Yeah, and again, I think I'll just put it out there for disclosure that the one word I will try to not use as much knowing that the word was the most frustrating word in the top 10 of 2024 was the word journey, and I know I've often used it and I am one of those people. We've mentioned it several times here in 2025. So if nothing else, my new goal, I've just decided on this called a yo yo is I will try not to use that word too much, but I think there was a context to that word because it is exactly that. And I'm not going to use it because we said we won't, but it is exactly that. And everyone is trying to find their way, through, through the day, through the week, through the month, through the year. I've had calls already,, this just in the last few days with some very senior people in the industry, just having a chat about various things. Where am I at? A ripe old age of 45, soon to be 46. And coming back to my charter professional status, what am I, what are my plans for that? What do I tend to do with it? Where do I see myself in five years? I wasn't an interview, just full disclosure. It was a general chat, just in case any of my employees are listening in and referring back to what you said about that five year question on the interviews. But no, ultimately, there is so much going on. and for everybody, as I said, for me, it's about, my biggest takeaway in 25 is I want to be checking in with people, irrespective of where they put stuff out that looks a bit like, oh, are you okay? Even if they put stuff out saying they're living their best life. My thing will be checking in with people more and physically going to see people more and making more of an effort. I consciously took a decision in 2024 to be the gray man, to take time away, to take my little sabbaticals from LinkedIn. and that was intentional., but as I said, I've come back with a renewed appetite to bring about positive change with people like minded, like you, that, want to do the right thing. That's going to be my biggest, project for 2025.

Yoyo: 44:40

I always miss it, seeing your presence on LinkedIn when you do take your sabbaticals, but completely respect the need to take them. I did over Christmas and New Year. I was, I had a very light touch and and that's just because I have a schedule for the Security Circle podcast to go out. But you're right, but you are missed Chris, when you are not accessible on LinkedIn. Sometimes when we think about our five year plan, we have to remember that. For some it starts today and I'm just going to refer to what you said in your post. You said, today I control my actions. I will focus on what matters. I choose courage over comfort. I'm grateful for this moment and I seek wisdom in all experiences. Chris Middleton, who is a chartered security professional, OSPA winner, thought leader, behind the mask author, keynote speaker, qualified life coach, care experience, trusted advisor, and veteran. Thank you so much for joining us on the Security Circle Podcast.

Chris: 45:45

Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much, Yo Yo. Thank you.