EP 122 From Marine to Mentor: The Jonathan Perillo Code

Summary of Episode:

🎙️ Episode Summary: Jonathan Perillo on Purpose, Mentorship, and the Evolving Security Industry

• Introduction & Background
  Jonathan shares his journey from joining the U.S. Marines post-9/11 to building a career in private security. 
• His early interest in the Coast Guard shifted to the Marines after meeting a recruiter and being inspired by the ethos and uniform. 
• Lessons from the Marines
  Describes boot camp and reconnecting with his former drill instructor after 20 years.
•  Key takeaway: Learning to become independent and trust his own decisions as a non-commissioned officer.
•  Shared a powerful turnaround moment from being overly reliant on guidance to becoming a confident leader.
• Transition into Security
  Security began as a side job during and after his military service. 
• A mentor helped him realize security wasn’t just a “bridge job” — it was his calling. 
• Jonathan emphasizes the distinction between guarding and strategic security leadership. 
• The Purpose of Purpose
  Purpose is what separates a job from a career. 
• Security professionals who find purpose in their roles perform with deeper commitment — but it can also lead to burnout if not balanced.
• Security as a Dual-Layer Industry
  Describes security as a field that accommodates both thinkers and doers.
•  Celebrates those content in frontline roles and those who aim to reshape the industry.
• Challenges in the Industry
  Rise in assaults on frontline officers, particularly in healthcare and retail 
• Advocates for protective legislation but urges caution to avoid unintended regulatory burdens.
• Security & Firearms Culture
  Discusses differences in firearms norms between the U.S. and UK 
• Emphasizes the seriousness and safety culture among responsible gun owners.
• AI and the Future of Security
  Believes the industry will initially fumble AI adoption due to data immaturity. 
• Sees early uses in validation (e.g., reviewing risk assessments) and predictive analytics in cyber/physical domains 
• Highlights use cases like drones, robot dogs, and sensor-equipped patrol units in expansive or hazardous environments.
• On Mentorship
  Strong advocate for mentoring through ASIS International.
•  His approach: guide, don’t clone — help mentees discover their own path 
• Reiterates the importance of choosing mentors that match specific needs or stages of personal/professional growth.

• Final Thoughts
  Urges security professionals to support each other and amplify the voices of those driving positive change. Encourages listeners to “change the world by changing their world” — starting with their mindset and community.

Security Circle ⭕️ is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers

Transcript

Yoyo: 0:01

If you enjoy the security circle podcast, please like share and comment or even better. Leave us a fab review. We can be found on all podcast platforms. Be sure to subscribe. The security circle every Thursday. We love Thursdays. Hi, this is Yolanda. Welcome. Welcome to the Security Circle Podcast, the award-winning Security circle podcast. Did you know if PO is the International Foundation for Protection Officers and we're dedicated to providing meaningful education information and certification for all levels of security personnel and make a positive difference where we can to our members', mental health and wellbeing. Our listeners are global. You are the decision makers of tomorrow and today, and I wanna thank you personally, wherever you are, whatever you are doing, wherever you are, jogging, running, or commuting to work for being a part of the Security Circle journey. If you love the podcast, we're on all podcast platforms, and don't forget to subscribe to get the podcast one day earlier or even better, just like, comment and share the LinkedIn post. Thank you for your company today. Well, I have a very special guest with me today actually. It's taking us a little while to, uh, cement this. Uh, but what do you expect from an incredibly busy and successful security professional? Jonathan Perillo, welcome to the Security Circle podcast. How you doing?

Jonathan: 1:36

I'm doing well. Thank you, Yoyo. It's been a pleasure and, uh, been really looking forward to this one.

Yoyo: 1:41

Well, you haven't heard then that I interrogate everybody,

Jonathan: 1:45

right? I, I, I have, I have. I've listened to some of your other ones, and it's part of me looking forward to it.

Yoyo: 1:51

Awesome. So you are in the Marines, right? What the heck? I didn't know that about you. What, yes. What made you join the Marines of all of the different types of military services you could have gone into? Jonathan.

Jonathan: 2:04

Okay. All right. We're gonna jump right into it. So, uh, I'm, I guess I just start by dating myself. so I am, 38 years old and, September 11th happened while I was a sophomore in high school. So, right after high school, military wasn't really a question for me. If I was joining, it was how I was joining. Now I was initially looking at Coast Guard. Uh, a lot of people don't know that, but I was, I was absolutely looking at Coast Guard. Uh, I was always a strong swimmer. I was a lifeguard, things like that, uh, when I was, uh, in high school. But I, uh, then I saw the Marines uniform and I sat down and I talked with the recruiter and we found a couple different things that I really liked. really got sold on the Marines as a branch and then got sold after that on, on my job, uh, in the Marines. Um. Then, uh, had a, a great five years, learned a lot and, came back out into the civilian world.

Yoyo: 2:55

I think the ladies like the Marines uniform as well, don't they? Jonathan?

Jonathan: 2:58

Yes. I I, I'm hard pressed to find anybody that doesn't like the Marines uniform.

Yoyo: 3:04

Yeah, exactly. In fact, police uniform tends to be quite high on the list here for both sexes. Actually, I don't know what it is about uniforms, but, do you remember your first day as a Marine?

Jonathan: 3:14

I do, I do. So actually, I got to relive a little bit of my first day because we just celebrated the 20th anniversary of going to bootcamp. And so we, uh, met up with some of the guys that I was with in my platoon and, uh, we also invited up our drill instructor. So he was, uh, kind of recollecting everything with us as well. So we, we got to catch up. So, yes, I do remember my first day in the absolute terror that that was waiting for me down in South Carolina.

Yoyo: 3:41

You were a little young to remember this Clint Eastwood movie, but maybe you have seen it. Heartbreak Ridge, do you remember it?

Jonathan: 3:48

Of course. Of course. It's Marine's Classic, right?

Yoyo: 3:52

It's legendary and it's one of Clint Eastwood's best acting roles, I think. How old were, how old were you when you first came across that movie, and how did you relate?

Jonathan: 4:02

I was actually already in the Marines when I saw that movie. The one that I saw before I left was, it was Jarhead, which was a relatively new one. That one was, uh, very good. Uh, but yes, so that was, while I was in, I saw that, uh, with a bunch of other Marines.

Yoyo: 4:16

You are not really supposed to be friends with your drill sergeant though, are you really?

Jonathan: 4:19

No, no. Uh, this was, uh, kind of a maturation, situation where, um, we were just reconnecting with a lot of people from while we were in, and I came across his profile on LinkedIn of all places. we reconnected kind of, uh, I was a little worried, of course. But it's one of those things that when you, when you deal with somebody, like a drill instructor or a combat instructor or anybody that had to be really hard on you, it's not. They're kind of mentors in disguise, right? Because there's a reason that they were doing that in the first place. They don't just get dropped in there and they're giving you a hard time because they're taking their frustrations out on you. It's because they are trying to make you better. They're trying to make you into a better person. They're actually wonderful to reconnect with because they want to see what you've done with what they've instilled in you. So we've had some incredible conversations about where life has taken us, where our career in the military took us, how it set us up for the future, and the re and some of the best parts Were sitting down and realizing why they did what they did sometimes, because all we knew on our end was that it was truly frustrating, but they were able to kind of give voice to what they were instilling in us.

Yoyo: 5:27

It's more though, isn't it, than just breaking you down and building you back up again. It's about making sure you can follow instructions and follow the way of rule. It's more than that, isn't it?

Jonathan: 5:38

it's more than that. so the way that I, I kind of convey it to people is, It, it's a, it's an idea that your actions are part of something bigger as well. So, there's this thing that's kind of hanging over your head at all times, whether it's called the operation or the mission or something, whatever it is, I. That's hanging over your head that you need to put everything that you have into., it could be your willingness to obey orders. It could be the sacrifices that you need to make either in your personal life or in your career, or e even to your body in some cases. Just, uh, there's something greater than you that you need to be driving towards and sacrificing towards.

Yoyo: 6:19

So of all the things that you did as a Marine, what were the true things that you learned about yourself in that five year journey?

Jonathan: 6:27

So the biggest, the biggest thing that I learned was, um, I. Uh, kind of like a status of independence. Um, so when I was a, when I was early and, uh, I was a non-commission officer, I was a corporal, I was on the enlisted side and as an early corporal, but especially when I was a lance corporal, I was a real, uh, sleeve tugger. Uh, I'd say that is like something that always needed guidance, always needed reassurance that they were doing something correctly. I just didn't wanna make a mistake because, uh. You know how things go in the Marines when you make a mistake. And it got to the point where that was being a bigger burden than the actual mistake was. And so I got sat down, and we'll just say it was a very, very polite two-way conversation. And, uh I was given some reading and I was given some, some courses and I was actually mentored through this on, you need to break free and you need to be independent. You need to. Find your voice. You need to find certain things here, you know what you're doing and you have the charge to be able to run ahead with this. and it was little things like reading Message to Garcia, which is only an eight page book. and it's really just a 18th century or a 19th century rant. it's being able to represent and self-advocate for yourself when you know better.

Yoyo: 7:46

Now, that can take quite a lot of confidence, especially if you are out of your comfort zone. Building confidence because when you are out in the field and you are on operations, being able to make a decision quickly and the right decision based on what you know at that time is important. If you haven't got anybody else more senior you around. Right. Right. that's, that must have been a lot of pressure for you to let that click into place. And when did you discover that it had clicked into place?

Jonathan: 8:12

It was pretty instantaneous because once I read, the biggest thing wasn't so much the reading. It was understanding why I had to, make this for myself, right? So it wasn't so much sitting down, reading and doing these courses. It was the why behind it, and it was almost night and day. Uh, you know, within, within a week I was completely turned around. I was able to take charge of projects. I was able to, gain further certifications. it was very. It was very quick. the best way that I can put it is, you're a victim of your own success, and it was, it led to a lot more opportunities for work and for promotion and for advancement. But the big reason that it worked is because I understood why it needed to

Yoyo: 8:53

tell me about a successful day that you had while you were in the Marines.

Jonathan: 8:58

Oh boy. Uh, a successful day. Um,

Yoyo: 9:02

getting home alive.

Jonathan: 9:04

So getting home alive. Well, so I wasn't so much worried about that because, I don't wanna misleading him. I was absolutely not, attached to any combat regiments or anything like that. I was an, aircraft mechanic. Um. So a, a good day for me was a day that we actually went home on time because within the air Wing there's so many different ways that things can go wrong and you have to stay late. Um, if it goes very wrong, it doesn't get cost, it doesn't get caught. It can cost somebody their life. But, um, we're. We're not out running combat missions. We're, we're working on aircraft. We're always combat ready. Um, there were times where we did have to get ready for some encounters, but it wasn't, it wasn't anything like, uh, the people that I consider to be heroes in the Marines who are out there taking, almost taking on almost daily these combat missions., but a successful day for us, um, is, uh, we. I wouldn't so much say, say a day. over the course of a couple of weeks, I was assigned to a new, a new shop and we were able to completely turn the shop around, as far as metrics and as far as KPIs to the point where we had to have the squadron I was attached to completely reevaluate their KPIs and reasign them. We took it down by, over a factor of 10. For our time to reliably turnaround, and so we set a an absolute new bar for the entire squadron there.

Yoyo: 10:22

Now that leads me very nicely into how you transitioned and what you've taken from your experience into the security industry. When did you start to see that gel?

Jonathan: 10:32

I actually started my time in the security industry while I was still actively in the Marines. I actually worked, some security, gigs on the side as many of our, armed forces do. Um, and I did security at some random events. when I got out of the military, I was, pretty hard set on not going into security. I actually wanted to go manufacturing. And I was kind of finding my way around a little bit. Uh, but I always had security as a side job while I was going to college or while I was working other jobs. It was always just something that was, it was incredibly natural to me. so I had it as a part-time gig, for a couple years. Um, I even did it, part-time while I was doing some fugitive recovery. and so those two really kind of leveraged themselves. And it wasn't until I met a mentor of mine that said, Hey, this part-time gig, this thing that you think you're looking for, your next big thing. That is your big thing. That's what you've been looking for. And, they pulled back the curtain of security for me a little bit and showed me what the actual industry is besides just personnel staffing. there's so much more to security than non-billable overtime, and it's. Just the language of risk and how you can, protect, organizations from a whole plethora of threats that they face on a daily basis all around the world. It's absolutely fascinating. So that's really what got me into the security industry, was just kind of hovering around it and having the right guidance to really give me that first big push.

Yoyo: 11:54

I, connected with somebody recently on LinkedIn that I've known for about, 17 years. And at the same time I was a security officer. He's a security officer, and I was a little disappointed that he's still a security officer. I. And yet you can imagine over the 16, 17 years how my career has changed and how I've driven it forward and how I've found a place where I can sit both contentedly as well as intellectually. And I was really kind of super disappointed'cause he seemed like a smart guy, you know? And he's still a security officer, still working nights, probably still same old stuff. And then I realized actually that's what this industry delivers. It delivers the roles for those people who want to think, they want to innovate, they wanna be maybe philanthropists in the in the industry. And then it also provides the stability of the very simplistic roles that. Maybe people don't always wanna go to work and have their brain ache at the end of the day. I kind of do. My brain doesn't hurt. I feel like I haven't done a full day's work.

Jonathan: 13:01

Right, right. No, I know exactly what you mean. and again, to your point, it's real. What happens when your passion is ignited? Right. So, um, it, it could, I've worked with some incredible security professionals that don't want to be at that next level because they're incredibly fulfilled where they are, and no amount of mentoring, no amount of coaching, no amount of career tracking or anything like that is gonna make'em change their mind. And it's not because they don't want. Bigger and better things. They have a realization that I'm jealous of where they are content and I don't know what that means or what that feels like. I think it's actually, yo, I think it's actually us that's broken. We're just in good company. And it's one of those things that. Opportunities, uh, in the industry are so weird because it really has so much to do with security more than any other industry. I think because of the connections that you make and kind of where your path takes you and whose path you cross along the way. Because there's so much about this that's a, a very personal industry, which is why we're so close knit, um, that if people aren't constantly out there. Putting themselves out there and trying to engage in things with people, it's, it's very easy to not see the next rung on the ladder if they're looking for it.

Yoyo: 14:20

Yeah, so look, let's go into a bit of politics. Not that kind of politics, but the politics of security officers we're finding certainly in the uk the number of security officers being assaulted and injured on the frontline is on the increase. We're not gun carriers in security industry in the uk. And I know that there is, there are a number of key people looking to, you know, apply pressure to our government to maybe have. A law in place that if you assault a security officer in the role of their, in the resp, in the, what's the word I'm looking for? In the nature of them executing their duties, then it's an additional more aggravated offense. I think there's many people that think the same. And then you've gotta think nurses, you gotta think there's other people. Retail, officers as well seem to get the brunt of it. what's it like in the States in terms of, you know, security officer frontline are they at greater risk than ever before?

Jonathan: 15:14

For several reasons. I think that there's always been a static risk there. I think that, With current climates, we're seeing a uniform and a sense of authority is being ostracized a little bit more and people feel more comfortable being confrontational with it. It certainly raises the floor, for things like that. We're not seeing, outside of I would say healthcare, an industry wide push, but there's certainly a greater environment for it. Healthcare, I do believe it's on the rise, which is very unfortunate. I love ideas of legislature like that. I, there's two sides to it. so there's the side where, yes, of course these are, these people are working in, certain off, scopes of authority. They are being trusted with other people's safety other than their own. we need to, uh. Advocate for legislation like this, but it comes with a caution as well because, um, then there comes into. Security is not working in public jurisdiction. They're working in private jurisdiction. So we have things like scope. There's going to be, uh, harder restraints on licensing and it may not be as approachable for people. Uh, and it may make security officers more of an exclusive job, which is going to drive up costs and it's going to make the market less available to people that are, Currently fill the roles. it's there's lots of things on both sides of this conversation that I think that it's needed, but I think it needs to be done carefully. overall, I think that something like that would elevate the profession, so I'm absolutely for it. It's just more of a let's proceed with caution instead of just getting the first thing on paper that we think would work here.

Yoyo: 16:51

I was having a great conversation with somebody the other day in terms of our British firearms policing standards. Our British Firearms officers, they, they have this kind of refresher training every five weeks where they have to go and discharge their weapon and execute, fine detail. Shooting for want of a better word. And yet in America it doesn't seem to be the infrastructure doesn't seem to support that, attention to detail. You know, you're given a gun and then, point and fire. but for the security industry, I mean, how many of those ladies and gentlemen on the front line wearing a security uniform carrying a gun, have actually got experience firing that gun and using it competently.

Jonathan: 17:33

Right, and, and. It depends on state by state, but I believe overall in the United States, I know certainly where I am in, in, in Connecticut, the requirements mirror very closely, what the state police requirements are. So, which is, annual certification. Okay. it's. I think we could do better. But at the same time, the problem is that we're asking for, these armed security guards in a lot of cases to be self-funding their training. So we want to make sure that it's not, again, restrictive. the other thing is in the US gun laws are a little bit different than they are in other places in the world. So there is more availability for self-practice where they can go and they can take themselves to a safe area and then practice, discharging, drawing, and, safe handling of their weapon.

Yoyo: 18:20

When I visited Florida, last year, we went to the Nexus gun shooting range.

Jonathan: 18:25

Yes. and how did you find it? Was it fun?

Yoyo: 18:29

honestly, incredibly safe. so I was there with another British, lady. we were all kind of a little bit giggly about it, that we were with a group of friends who were all men and they all owned their own guns. In fact, they had a library of guns in their bags. It was hilarious. They were like, you wanna try shooting with one of these? And I went, okay. Uh, we, it was obviously a safety briefing. We weren't dangerous in any way, but it was phenomenal, not only to see. How responsible they were as friends and colleagues in terms of how they handled their firearms, how they shot them, how they were passionate about them. It wasn't just about shooting. It was a, it was like a tribal thing. It was fun. and they were very serious about it. They never joked around or pranked around, but it was very serious and everyone would come out. And then we went for food afterwards.'cause that's what you do. You go to shooting range and then you go to. Sports bar and I got it down to Pat, and I got to try several different weapons, but it was a shock, but a nice shock in the sense of it was a learning experience. Open-minded. It's quite shocking for us Brits though, to. Realize that in some states, you can just walk into a, a firearm store and buy a gun. for us, that's terrifying. We don't even handle them. We don't see them. And when you, when we go to the airport, we might see police with guns and that's it, you know,

Jonathan: 19:46

It's certainly a different. And, you know, working with global companies, this is something that you try and explain to them. it's not that it's dangerous, it's that it's different, right? So, um, now I can absolutely assure your global audience that this isn't like the 18 hundreds Western films that. That you see, speaking of Clint Eastwood, where everybody has one on their hip. Exactly. So it's not like that over here. Uh, it is much more discreet. It is much more, concealed. Yeah. but yes, it does exist and, you know, it is, almost entirely for self-protection. Yeah. and again, then you also have people that do it for sport and you do it for things like that in, in safe environments. But it, it is a little bit of a cultural difference. Uh, you had said something where it was kind of tribal and it, it. It's very similar to the security industry in a lot of ways where it, you're as good as your culture is, and if you surround yourself with the right people, with the right mind, and you're supportive of each other and you, you do it properly, it can be incredibly safe and fun at the same time. safety always being first and being the framework that you build everything else on.

Yoyo: 20:52

Absolutely. So take us through what you're doing now, Jonathan.

Jonathan: 20:56

So I do a, a couple of different things. So, uh, I just started a, a company, and we won't be launching it anytime soon, but it's called Safest. Uh, safest stands for self-advocate for your safety training. Nice. So good things coming there. I. Doing some pretty incredible things with a SIS International, with the membership committee and trying to make sure that we're delivering value to, ASIS members around the world. Um, well for me anyways, specifically North America., and then, Over here, still senior manager with, a big reinsurance company and, just, helping them, them to build up, both global, regional and local, security practices.

Yoyo: 21:33

I know this is a little bit left of bang, but recently we obviously heard the news story about the young man that shot the CEO of a healthcare company.

Jonathan: 21:42

Mm-hmm.

Yoyo: 21:43

And we know that that's going through, the very, sort of most sensitive part of trial and, Retribution at the moment, but did the insurance industry get affected by that at all? I,

Jonathan: 21:53

I don't think any industry didn't get affected by it. It's a very real event. I can certainly say that, it's been a topic of conversation in the industry. It's been a topic of conversation outside of the industry and it's a very harrowing realization that these things can happen. the mantra and kind of what. What we've been putting out there about it, at least as far as people that I'm, that are in the circles that I'm in, is that this isn't just a lightning strike. This is something that was very calculated, very long spun. Very precise and it takes a lot of time and resources and self reaffirmation that this has to happen for one of these to get pulled off. These are so incredibly rare. they truly are terrorism. they're not just a disgruntled employee that happened to have a gun in the car. This is something that was long spun. my research is showing it's a, at least a year in the making, for something like this to come to fruition. The other side of it is, not everybody is a target with these types of things, there's a couple of different aspects to it. And your security team can absolutely help you. Find the awareness of if it's something that would impact you. there's certainly enough out there right now to see kind of where it would point next and how it's kind of rearing its head. But, um, it, it's, I would say absolutely lean on your security teams to, to help you to see where it's heading next.

Yoyo: 23:19

I think we, we both agree and everybody listening would agree that, you know, what happened was wrong. That no, that, no, CEO should go to work and that should happen. But the take home I got from it, Jonathan, was that, you know, CEOs, I've always felt a kind of, like, if you look at the seven degrees of separation

Jonathan: 23:39

mm-hmm.

Yoyo: 23:39

They've always seemed very distant and remote from, you know, everybody else. And I think this would make a lot of CEOs think, okay, I'm not so many spaces removed now. This is more about, it kind of brings them in from the outside. They're not on the outside anymore. And I think that that was what I took away from it. I think a lot of CEOs, you know, should take a look at things like their digital security as well as their own, you know, personal security and if their organization is deliberately or indirectly. Aggravating its customer base and there are gonna be some lessons to learn, aren't there?

Jonathan: 24:11

Well, absolutely. And remember that it's not only about your company, it's also about the audience, right? So many aspects that go into this. we need to be on heightened alert, but the big thing that people need to realize is that it wasn't a killing of a CEO. It wasn't a killing of that particular person. What they were trying to do was they were trying to send a message to an entire industry on behalf of who they perceive their audience to be. And that's really how we gauge where this thing is heading next and what we're looking at. A couple different things about it. One, the attacker actually was inspired by the Unabomber and they did evaluate that they wanted to, use bombing, but they felt that it wasn't the right way to send the message. So they opted for firearms that can be adapted in any number of ways depending on who the attacker is. So that could be a ransomware attack, that could be, doxing. That could be whatever that person feels the best way to get their message across for their intended audience. In this case, it happened to be, a firearm. It's beholden to the attacker. It's beholden to the target or targets that they're selecting, and it's beholden to not only the resources and the ideologies, but also to. What their perceived outcome is for their audience. So there's a lot of different parts to it. And one of the things that I'm working with a couple different people, ATAP, a SIS and a couple of other ones, is, how do we measure the throughput on that so that we can actually say, this is what makes us a target here and for these different things. But it, back to your original point. Yes. It's, it, this is risk-based, right? It's not necessarily a specific medium, medium that we're looking at. It's the overall, impact and the disruption that they're trying to cause, and that's on multiple fronts now.

Yoyo: 25:57

So you handled that question quite well, so I'm gonna go harder. Thank you.

Jonathan: 26:00

Okay.

Yoyo: 26:03

What's coming up for the security industry now? Give us a bit of, future scanning. Jonathan Perillo style.

Jonathan: 26:10

Oh, geez. Alright. The security industry is incredibly broad, so that, that question can go so many different ways. The absolute next thing for the security industry to do is absolutely fumble ai. It's just, it's here and we aren't ready., we need to, the time to get used to it is quickly disappearing. So the adaptation is here. We need to figure out how we can. Leverage this thing, and what it actually looks like and what we can do with it.

Yoyo: 26:39

on the AI question, because I'll let you come back to this, I had a colleague today say to me, they have a client looking for, somebody that provides an AI solution for insider threat. I put some feels out and then I realized. Why does AI have to be a part of the solution? Right? Do you have an insider threat program that's good enough because it doesn't necessarily need, ai? And then why are you asking for an insider threat program that needs ai? We all know as individuals that we are worth more if we use generative AI responsibly and. Keep close to it. Once I had chat, GPT gimme a whole load of mumbo jumbo, but it was the only time out of a million times I've used it. Did it do that? But that could have caught me out. You have to stay close to it. I think it was a test. what's AI gonna do to transform the security industry or a security company? Give it a competitive edge, Jonathan.

Jonathan: 27:32

So there's so many different things that AI can do, and the reason that we're not ready for it yet is because we don't have a handle on our own data. So there's a couple different things that we needed to do for homework first that we're behind on. So first of all, I. It's hard in the security industry because there's so little data anyways, because we simply don't record our near misses. So it's one of the biggest heartaches in securities that we aren't documenting the things that we don't necessarily need to document because we're so time bound. and so we don't have that good data to work off of. Whereas over in the cyber realm, we do have documentation on that. So AI helps tremendously with identifying threats before they actually create an impact. The physical side, we're a little bit lagging there. the other thing is the uniformity of data and the data framework that it comes in is, greatly lacking in the physical security side. So, being able to tie pieces of data for global companies, is much harder, just because of physical locations and the way that you can get data out, data reporting, different things like that make it much harder for the physical security side. Where I see AI coming in is, it would be interesting to see the applications on a risk assessment. Where I see it coming in, where we use it most though is actually validating the work that we've already done. getting a, that second pair of eyes on work that we've done saying, Hey, here's a risk assessment that I have performed. Have I forgotten anything? And so I hate to. Use it for starters as like a spell check, but it's a way that one, we can get people comfortable with using it. Two, it's going to be going through already screened, embedded data, and three, it it, you can point it at a couple of different things and then you're doing it under the purview of this is something that I can still interpret afterwards where I'm not just blindly trusting the state to go and run off. So I think that that's going to be our first step, uh, as, as an industry into it. Now, some organizations are using it fantastically, um, places with very, very advanced, uh, and very stable, uh, physical access control systems, uh, or physical protection systems where they're unified. Um, they're using it very, very, uh, well to identify, uh, when different, uh. Functions and pieces of their, uh, deployments may be failing. Um, they're using it to, uh, uh, help with camera analytics. Uh, they're using it in a lot of different aspects on that side of it. Um, but as far as other aspects like, like you said, insider threat or pre-employment screening or certain things like that, it, I think it's gonna be a little bit longer before we can use it for that, just'cause of some of the compliance sides of it. I think it's gonna be much more on a review side.

Yoyo: 30:16

Yeah, but you know, I like you, I can see that happening. So I saw a, I saw, um, on Insta, I was looking at memes and things, uh, mainly, uh, funny stuff, uh, which I like. And there was this, picture. I believe it's. I believe it's authentic. It's of a four-legged robot that's able to run and go over some fairly challenging terrains. And you can see there's a couple of things that went through my mind and I thought, wow, okay. So I can see this being used from military sense. It was agile, it was fast, it was consistent. It's. Really good. And then I thought, if you've got a very large distribution center, you only have to have one of those on the front entrance, one of them on the back entrance, and then one doing patrols. And I just saw this kind of future of the data analytics that would come, the surveillance that would come from those kind of robotic eyes, all of that data being uploaded, you know, being able to change the algorithm so that they all move and look at different things at different times. And then I started thinking, how good can they be? Are they taught to see an individual? Arriving at the premises after a certain time of night without a uniform as a threat. But then what if the manager's turned up off duty to help a member of staff get a job done? Is that manager gonna be seen as a threat? Will the technology be good enough for the AI to determine is that a threat? And that all of that was going through my mind while I walked a nine second clip. Do you, you hearing what I'm saying?

Jonathan: 31:51

I do. So I love security robotics. I love what we're doing with drones. I've, some of the use cases that I've been hearing about it, and we were looking at doing the robotics as part of our program as well. Even before Covid, unfortunately, COVID kind of tanked the project on us and we're hoping to get back into it. So there's a couple different things with the robotics and some of the things that you brought up that I think are really interesting. So, one is. I love, I absolutely love the canine robots for multiple different reasons, but one of them in particularly, which I think is part of the brilliance of it, that not a lot of people have picked up on. The reason I like that they're in a canine form is because it's actually, it leads you much more intuitively into what I think they're. They should be doing, and that they're more like canine officers and less like officers. So in that way, they're not there to replace a human. They're not there to be a police officer with arresting powers and that wears a body camera on them and things like that. They're there to do the things that the security officers can't do. And that would be, Any number of things like going off road,

Yoyo: 32:56

stay out in all, stay out in all weathers. Number one, stay out

Jonathan: 32:59

in all weathers sensors.

Yoyo: 33:01

Yeah.

Jonathan: 33:01

The different sensors you can equip them with. One of the things that we were looking at was, the, we knew of a develop a developing, heart rate sensor. We could sense environmentally heart rates until if they were, irregular rhythms or not. And that would be an indicator that, that, that that robot could go and self, uh, self deploy to go and get an a ED. Completely separate of people

Yoyo: 33:22

or pick up that the offender has an elevated heart rate because they're under stress and they're about to commit a crime.

Jonathan: 33:30

Right? And it can give you awareness, it can give you those things. Like that can send it back to the central dispatcher. It can give you something in your ear. It can give you those things that you don't have as a human. Those crucial insights that can help. was talking with a colleague that uses drones, to monitor their, Their fence break alarms where they automatically dispatch it, drone around, and then they can have immediate situational awareness without all the cost of having, these cameras around this huge expansive, fencing system that they have. it's being used in such incredibly,, genius ways, for these un unmanned, security solutions. does AI have, a portion of that? A lot of it's click and go. A lot of it's, you know, inputs and outputs. putting AI over the top of it is going to be interesting. I think that there's absolutely applications, but I think that there needs to be a good framework there for it too, because then, it gets a little bit less into that supporting role that they're in right now and gets more into kind of a, an autonomous,

Yoyo: 34:31

If we take that robot dog, guard dog at the, distribution center, again, let's just say, you know, the person attending out of hours has an ID card. The ID card could be shown, but how do we know that's that person's real ID card Or is it a card that they've stolen? I think the idea is in having this remote management where if you are say, an organization that's managing the security for 10 different, data centers. For example, in different locations and you've got a control center and you've got these, this activity, you've got the ability to be able to have that human intervention almost at every touch point where there's any type of, you are asking the eyes and ears on the ground to just. escalate the risk, aren't you? In the same way that a human will, but they don't need to take breaks. They don't need to have legislative food breaks and toilet breaks, and they can stay out when it's cold and when it's hot. Right.

Jonathan: 35:26

and, yes, but, and at the same time, they can do all of the things that we can't do. So they can go and they can respond to, critical facility leaks where there would be chemical leaks. They can go and they can, You know, if, if there's a chemical spill, if you can, you can push them to certain things. One of the jokes that, that we were saying was if we had a robot with a little remote control and there was an active shooter, we just drive it right into it and make it so-called bullets. I'm not doing that with a security officer. Yeah. Um, it, it's, you can do a lot of things with them. Uh, but again,, they're an enhancement. And it goes to one of the things that we really try and push in, in all the departments that I've a part of, which is. How do you get that one person that is really good at their job, even better at their job and pay them more? Right? And it's because they're using things like robotics and it's because they have all of this situational awareness. And what you're doing is you're ta, you're using technology to get the right people in the right place is paying them well and giving them. As much as they could possibly do. Pushing that responsibility and that awareness down to that one person. and then supporting them with everything you've got. So give them air cover. When it's a bad day, give them praise when it's a good day and, you know, continuously try and develop them.

Yoyo: 36:43

Earlier on, you talked about ASIS and we met last year in Orlando. We were on a panel together all around mentoring. I really loved what you had to say. Thank

Jonathan: 36:52

you.

Yoyo: 36:53

I blacked

Jonathan: 36:53

out for the whole thing. I don't remember it now.

Yoyo: 36:56

Alan brought us together and we didn't know each other and, but it was just so nice to, this is how you make friends. Right?

Jonathan: 37:02

Exactly. Uh,

Yoyo: 37:02

mentoring is a. Big thing in a SIS, isn't it? It's not only are there a lot of young professionals really looking to connect with a mentor for a number of different reasons, but there are a number of really seasoned, experienced people who just can't help but wanna give a bit of time back to help others. It's a combination that works well, isn't it?

Jonathan: 37:25

Yes, absolutely. And that's one of the things that, that they really like about a SIS and kind of the journey that they've been on as an organization. it used to be where a SIS was this exclusive organization that only the top of the top were members of. And just getting to that level was kind of the measure of a professional. Then they came out with the protection professional. Where you could certify against it. And then they came out with a lot of other certifications as well for different sectors. And then, it really kind of morphed and it's part of the journey that they've been on. A SIS today. It's still, a huge bullet point on people's resume if they're a member because of the awareness that they give. But. It's become a knowledge base and it's become a place where people can come and exchange ideas. And this is a huge tool in my toolbox on how I get my daily job done. Just because you can do, I call it, tap into the hive and understand that hive knowledge that's going on around the world and how you get things done. Um, one of the things that, if you've heard me on any of the other industry talks or any of the other, I won't say the P word, but. Speed, you know, uh, conferences and things like that. I talk about, shields and spears and it's, uh, this idea that, um, you could be a generalist or a specialist and there's so many generalists. Being able to find the specialists, uh, uh, is such a huge lift. And, uh, a SI really greatly helps with that.

Yoyo: 38:54

We talked about stick or twist, didn't we?

Jonathan: 38:57

Yes.

Yoyo: 38:58

Tell us about that.

Jonathan: 39:01

I need a refresher. Yoyo,

Yoyo: 39:03

we talked about some mentoring stick or twist were basically saying, look, you know, definitely don't feel that just because you're connecting with a mentor having a great time, that it's forever a relationship. Some, some relationships can be like, it can be a one-off session, it can be, you know, stick or twist to another mentor and two different mentors throughout your, I remember saying to the stage that we, when we sat, I said, look, when? When people know they need a mentor, it's the biggest revelation just knowing you need a mentor because normally something isn't right. They know they're not moving. They know that they are maybe being held back. They know that they are missing something, and they need almost just that confirmation, somebody to say, yeah, okay. Are you being set up for success where you are right now? And you can see the color drain from their face and they realize the. Daunting truth that actually no, they're not being set up for success. And it is time to face the very difficult question, is the marriage with my employer, about to end and should it end? Is it because I'm not getting what I need and how do I ask for what I need? And there you go. Six different reasons to have a mentor. And you can have six different mentors, but there are so many people out there and you, what makes you a good mentor, do you think? Jonathan?

Jonathan: 40:15

The thing that I. Especially with my mentees and the people that I work with, is because I'm not trying to create little Johns. I'm not trying to create little clones of myself, right? Where it's like, Hey, it,, this is my legacy and this is my person, and they're gonna do everything exactly the way that I think. It comes with the understanding that the best training I've ever had for security was actually peer mediation in high school. And I know this is. of what we're talking about, but I think that the core will bring us back around. The peer mediation training in high school, was based around this idea that you may have the perfect answer for somebody, but if it's not one that resonates with them, it'll never work. So it needs to be something that they find kind of on, their own self-discovery, their own challenge. You can guide them with your questions, you can guide them to it, but the way that they really choose to walk through the door themselves is if they kind of find the door their on their own as well. And it may not be the exact one that I think is gonna be perfect for them, but. It's much better to have somebody put a hundred percent into something than 85%, if they, if you think it's better for them. What makes people successful is their absolute devotion for it. So one of the things I try and bring into my mentoring is driving them to drive themselves and kind of showing them the options and kind of giving them an idea of a landscape. But they have to pick their own trail. they have to find their own door, and they have to be the ones that walk through it. So it's really, when I mentor people, it's not so much about a checklist and here's what we need for you to do to be successful. It's really just zooming out and looking at the overall map, and then kind of going and zooming back in as they want to look at things closer.

Yoyo: 42:06

I spoke to a young woman security professional very, very recently. she had moved into the security industry from finance and she's a security officer now in Canary Wolf, which is London's financial district, very sort of plushy area. You know, they get paid quite well there. and she just said, I had no idea that I was gonna really love security. I don't even know why I like it so much, but it's so much better than finance. and I just said, I know why you like it. And she was so curious. Like I said it is giving you purpose. Right. And I really feel for people that don't really kind of connect with having purpose in their lives, this is the second time we've talked about purpose here in this conversation. Why is purpose important? Because if I was to answer that question, I would say it's the difference between having a security officer who's gonna go to sleep on nights, rather than having a security officer who's gonna be motivated to actually do what they're there to do.

Jonathan: 43:00

So it's incredibly important, but it's also one of our biggest downsides, right? So it's management of that is incredibly important. The reason that I think it's important is because it's difference between a. A career in a job, right? So it's a calling to it. It's, it becomes part of your fabric. If it resonates within you and it aligns with how you feel and what you think you're trying to impact onto the world, you're going to put more of it into you, and your successes are going to be part of your success and your. What you feel like is your life's purpose, right? It's also part of the downfall because you're not going to only have successes. You're not going to have all sunny days. You're gonna have some rainy days, and it's going to make you feel. It's going. It's not just another career where if you have a bad day in accounting or in finance, you get a little bit frustrated because the spreadsheet isn't lining up the way that you want. It will shake you to your core. It's going to have you question, why am I doing this? Why am I doing this with my life? It can have medical impacts on you. it's. It's incredibly daunting. It also brings a lot of questions, not questions, but challenges with managing not work life. And it's something we have to be very cognitive of it because if this is something that has so much purpose for us and it has so much, uh, of ourselves put into it, we still need to be able to remove ourselves and be, uh, spend time with our families, spend times with, with our friends. Have a nice balanced life and it's. It makes it much harder. So while it's an incredible, uh, industry to go into, because you can find yourself in it, find the things that really drive you, it can, it, it will also suck you into it. And you need to be, you need to be aware of. What that's doing to your loved ones and people around you as well. I would not change it for the world. I have had, several opportunities to leave the security industry, uh, and to go and chase other things. Many of them, uh, are highly paid and I just, I don't know that I could do it. I, I wouldn't be truly happy again at at work.

Yoyo: 45:13

Well, you look happy on your LinkedIn photo.

Jonathan: 45:17

There is a lot of Photoshop on that, that that's.

Yoyo: 45:22

We have this phrase in England, like the Cheshire cat grinning, like the Cheshire cat. You've got this kind of like very contented, meow, purring thing going on in your facial expression, Jonathan Perillo. And I just thought, now if anyone can't believe this man's happy in his job, just check that photo out and just, it is there. You've just, you look so content

Jonathan: 45:42

thank you. Thank you. Yes. I look like a grump most of the time. I had a great photographer for that one. Um, and she, I'm very happy with what we got out of that. But yes, thank you.

Yoyo: 45:55

How do you change the world by not changing the world,

Jonathan: 45:59

change your world? it's, the world is a huge place. You can change your world simply by changing your mindset. Uh, this was one of the things that I, I kind of realized early into Covid, maybe a little bit before then, which was, uh, I may not be this big, all powerful person in the security industry that can say something and all of a sudden things change all around the world. But what I can do is find the people out there that are changing the security industry and make sure that they have some wind in their sails and tell'em that I think that what they're saying is. Important and that they are being heard. so just a little connection with them and saying, Hey, I saw your webinar today. I loved it. Keep up the good stuff. Right? Just a little note like that for the people that are out there changing the world, it's so incredibly impactful. and it's so incredibly needed because so many times you just feel like you're shouting into a void and you're not getting this feedback. So when you get those little. Those little tiny pushes, it can change the world and you're just changing it for yourself. You're just changing it, saying The people that I think are doing the right thing, I want them to keep going. And so that is how you make the little waves that keep things going.

Yoyo: 47:14

You are planning to go to GSX in New Orleans coming up later on in the year. What have you got? Are you gonna, I mean, look, I like going because I like to go and see my friends. I'm very lucky in the sense that I don't feel like I have to go professionally. For me, it's more of a social thing. Even though I do not tend to go to most of the social functions. I'm an ambivert, so by the time I've gone through the day. I need to spend time alone and decompress. And I don't really enjoy having meaningful conversations with lots of loud music. Um, how boring. Am I you? And the thing is, the events are fun. Do you remember we did the Canada Night? I do in, I got three pucks in the net in a row. And I You're

Jonathan: 47:56

natural.

Yoyo: 47:56

I know Deb Anderson couldn't believe it.'cause she obviously is a huge hockey, fan, I'd never even touched a hockey stick before. So that was a lot of fun. But what do you get out of GSX and why are you going this year?

Jonathan: 48:12

Oh, man. So, uh. I go to GSX every year that I can. GSX is absolutely fantastic. What I can tell you is whatever I think I'm going to GSX and, all my best laid plans before I go to GSX are just, they go to the win the second I hit the conference center. You get pulled in so many different locations and the second you try and go back on plan, back on script, you just feel like you can't because you're getting so much more out of the spontaneousness that pops up during that conference. I'm very happy to say that I served on the GSX selection committee again this year and that there's some fantastic learning coming up this year. I can't wait for that. But very much like you said, it's reconnecting with people, validating new relationships, reconfirming old relationships, being able to spend time with the people that we work with, but can't necessarily see every day. Mixed in with an absolutely incredible trade floor mixed in with, you know, top class. presentations and then just the overall energy. I mean, no other time can you say, yeah, I wanna wake up and be starting meetings at 7:00 AM and then go past midnight for an entire week. I'll be happy about it. And that's GSX and it's, it's the, it's an absolute madhouse and it's the best time. I look forward to it every single year. And so uh, I can't wait to see, what's in store this year.

Yoyo: 49:30

We had a fun time last time because I think a lot of people left slightly early because the hurricane that was coming right, and I was remaining on, in fact, my flight due for the Friday was canceled, so I ended up having to stay all weekend in Florida by the pool. Can you believe it? I mean, it was just, oh no, it was most unfortunate. Uh, yes., so I got the most out of that as possible, but, it was funny to see everyone leave early, but it was so memorable. And, uh, the, the two women that I stayed with, Debs and Pam, we kind of like flat shared together. They were out till all hours up first thing in the morning. I would always go to the pool for half an hour before I went anywhere.

Jonathan: 50:08

Yep.

Yoyo: 50:09

It was just, so I don't know where these ladies get the energy from. are you presenting at all, in New Orleans?

Jonathan: 50:15

Not this year. Not, not yet. Anyways, we'll see if I get roped in for some discussions. Uh, but no, I, I'm not presenting, this year. And

Yoyo: 50:24

I would suggest as well anyone who hasn't connected with you on LinkedIn to definitely connect with Jonathan Perillo, P-R-I-L-L-O. you presented recently, didn't you? What the heck is security? Anyways,

Jonathan: 50:35

so, yes, it's one. I'm trying to, I'm trying to put this presentation together. I'm wanna, I was hoping I would have it together for GSX, but. I can't wait, for this one to get out there. This is for both security folks and non-security folks. and it's just an overview of what do we actually do, for. It's so hard to try and convey this, especially to non-security folks, non, high level end users. So it's just pulling back the curtain a little bit and showing all of the goings on in the industry and what it is that you're actually responsible for when you're A CSO. I can't wait. it will hopefully be out by the end of this year and we'll start,, being able to, give this across the country.

Yoyo: 51:16

Well listen once you can, and you have, and you are ready, you could come onto the security circle maybe Q1 next year and deliver your presentation with us so that people can listen to it in a conversation style. But I have one last very important question to ask you, Jonathan. Okay. Why does Connect to Cut have three Cs and you only pronounce two of them?

Jonathan: 51:40

Look across New England. Look, so Massachusetts isn't spelled the way that it's supposed to be spelled., it's just it kind of got into the rant, right? With Connecticut does not sound,, correct. It's a tiny state. you just want say it as fast as you can.

Yoyo: 51:59

I love it, but I had to ask it'cause somebody here in the UK got pulled up for saying Connecticut on the radio because something's happened in Connecticut recently, and I think maybe you had somebody speak that's from Connecticut, that's got Nationals international stage or something. It's Connecticut. This Connecticut. And somebody sort of rang in and said it's not connect icut its connecticut. So I felt like I needed to ask the very budding question. Jonathan Perillo, you are indeed passionate and self-driven as security professional above all others. Thank you so much for joining us on the Security Circle podcast.

Jonathan: 52:34

Oh, it's been a pleasure. Thank you, yoyo.