The Security Circle
An IFPOD production for IFPO the very first security podcast called Security Circle. IFPO is the International Foundation for Protection Officers, and is an international security membership body that supports front line security professionals with learning and development, mental Health and wellbeing initiatives.
The Security Circle
EP 123 Alex Bomberg: Bugging, Bribery, and Battle Scars: Tales from the Shadows
Get ready for an adrenaline-charged deep dive into the world of espionage with Alex Bomberg — from army life and corporate spying to the psychology of secrets. Alex shares jaw-dropping stories, career lessons, and why the real battlefield today is inside your mind. Expect truth bombs, laughs, and a few surprises along the way.
Alex Bomberg’s Personal Journey: From school expulsion and army service to building a career in security and counterespionage.
Corporate Espionage: Real-world stories about surveillance, bugging hotels, and intelligence gathering for commercial clients.
Technical Surveillance (TSCM): The realities of bug sweeps and the importance (and limitations) of technical countermeasures.
Psychology in Security: How human behavior, learning styles, and insider threats shape security vulnerabilities.
Cognitive Warfare and Social Media: How information warfare, influence operations, and AI are changing the security landscape.
The Evolution of Technology: How advances in mobile devices, AI, and surveillance have made espionage both easier and harder.
Nudge Theory in Security: Using subtle psychological prompts to improve security behavior without heavy-handed rules.
Broken Windows Theory: How neglect in small areas can escalate to bigger risks in both cities and organizations.
Building a Security Network: The value of professional networks, mentorship, and fostering good relationships in the security world.
Resilience and Risk Management: How organizations need to focus on culture and resilience to survive future security challenges.
BIO
Alex Bomberg is the Founder and Group CEO of Intelligent (UK Holdings) Limited, a global security and intelligence group headquartered in Gloucestershire, England. A former British Army soldier and has been a prominent figure in the security industry since establishing International Intelligence Limited in 2002.
Under his leadership, the group has expanded to include multiple specialist companies, including Intelligent Protection International Limited, which provides multilingual close protection services worldwide. Bomberg is recognised as a leading expert in counter-espionage, technical surveillance counter-measures (TSCM), and risk management.
He is a Fellow of the Institute of Strategic Risk Management and a Member of the Security Institute. Bomberg is also a sought-after speaker and media commentator, having lectured at institutions such as King's College London and the Graduate Institute in Geneva, and appeared on major news outlets, including the BBC, CNN, and Sky News.
In 2025, he introduced the "Big Dave Theory," a new academic concept addressing client bias in security decision-making.
Security Circle ⭕️ is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers
If you enjoy the security circle podcast, please like share and comment or even better. Leave us a fab review. We can be found on all podcast platforms. Be sure to subscribe. The security circle every Thursday. We love Thursdays. Hi, this is Yolanda. Welcome. Welcome to the Security Circle podcast, the award winning Security Circle podcast. IFPO is the International Foundation for Protection Officers, and we are dedicated here to providing meaningful education, information, and certification for all levels of security personnel, and make a positive difference to our members mental health and well being where we can. Our listeners Global. They are the decision makers of tomorrow and today, and we want to thank you wherever you are for being a part of the Security Circle journey. Don't forget to subscribe or even better just like and comment and share the LinkedIn post. Well, I have a very, very special guest with me today, Alex. Bomberg, what a great name, international security and counter espionage subject matter expert. What will we be talking about today? Alex, welcome to the Security Circle podcast. How are you doing?
Alex:Hi Yolanda, yeah, very good. Thank you so much for having me on.
Yoyo:It's a bit of a sort of sexy job description you've got there, isn't it?
Alex:Well, I've made it up over the last 20 years, so it's refined.
Yoyo:If you look back to where you started, and only you know where that is, did you ever imagine that your career was going to take you all the way through to where it has?
Alex:Oh, no, no way. I mean, if I go right back, I need to go right back to my childhood, really. I, wasn't interested in education at all. I was expelled from school by 15 years old. I was expelled from two schools, actually. I just was not interested in, education, wasn't interested in any sort of learning, was basically put to, put to work at Gloucester Ski Centre, as sort of an ongoing work experience. I was pretty much full time there and I stayed there until I joined the army at 18 and a half., My world was a very, very different world.
Yoyo:Getting expelled from school, It's usually for being a bit naughty, isn't it, back in those days? Was it just that education didn't tick any boxes for you? Now that you know who you are, what was the reason why education didn't hook you in?
Alex:I think it was the, my learning style. I've actually since done a test recently, it's called the COBOL, COBOL, learning style questionnaire. So I did this questionnaire only recently and discovered my learning style, which was, which was quite a new thing for me. And I think, you know, going back in the, to the 1970s I don't think people really understood, you know, people in education, I'm pretty sure didn't really understand them. People like me who needed hooks. I needed something, a subject to, to get me through. I was always interested in geography and history. so why didn't they tie subjects together for people like me and make things more interesting, for me? I don't know, but, it was only really in the last. 10 years where I've wanted to better myself. I think really coming onto sort of the modern era for me, it's because in security, one of the biggest things that clients need is competence. And what does that, what, you know, what does competence mean? It means experience, but it also means having the qualifications to back that up.
Yoyo:You, you're almost talking about my life. Most people will be really surprised to hear that in school I was a bit naughty. I was quite bright. I was in one of the top three classes, but I used to, you know, I used to muck about. I nearly dropped the F bomb then. I used to muck about a lot and I think it was because I was under stimulated and it wasn't that everything was easy. I just found it so hard just to sort of. You know, really zone in and focus. I enjoyed being with people. I was a bit of a disruptor, but I've had to learn as well that, you know, in the last 10 years, the amount of learning that I've done, because I've just wanted to be a sponge to absorb stuff. And I've chosen to do it in ways that I've learned are better for me. Did you go through a similar sort of thing? Like, what have you learned now about your learning style that you could share with us?
Alex:I think that's, you've hit the nail on the head then. I was exactly the same sort of person. I was, I was disruptive because, and I probably got on the nerves of other people for sure, but I was disruptive because I just, nothing, nothing ticked the boxes for me. Nothing, nothing was sucking me in. And now I think, it's funny, so a friend actually who I went to school with recently got back in touch with me because, he was involved in event management and now he's just qualified as a bodyguard and he's on LinkedIn and he wrote something yesterday. So he's into his Kung Fu and he's also a Buddhist. He's a real, this guy's a real thinker. He wrote yesterday something beautiful on LinkedIn. He wrote that we can be the caterpillar. Or we can be the, or we can become the butterfly, and I actually one upped him on that, and I said, actually, we can also become the wind beneath the butterfly's wings.
Yoyo:Oh, you two, both of you, you need a room.
Alex:I know, I know, I know. I actually wrote it, it just came from somewhere. But I wrote it, and I thought, actually that's true. Because you, to some people you are the wind beneath their wings, when they're a butterfly. And for me, there are amazing people within the security industry, and I'm going to name drop here. This is in Europe, Dr. David Rubens.
Yoyo:Yes, check, check.
Alex:Who, yeah, who's such a lovely, lovely guy. I feel quite precious about David because he's, I've done four of his courses, four of his level five courses, and he's, David will tell you how it is. He won't mess around. And also people like Gary Bergen, um, who's in Ireland, you know, these people are, they're beautiful professionals who will take up, you know, they will call you, you can call them and they will help you. And there are people out there like that. I've struggled with some of the, you know, some of the. are some of the things that I've written and researched and I can call these people up and I can ask them for their assistance, for their help, for their guidance. And that is the beauty of the security industry that we've now got in Europe. There are some amazing people out there who will be the wind beneath your wings and will lift you up. Because we all need lifting up, don't we?
Yoyo:We do. Adrian Bosch gave me a really good quote. I've put it up on my LinkedIn, because I was so inspired by it. He said, sometimes, you know, when you're asking yourself questions professionally, he said, he kind of draws on this, quote, which is from, is it? So that's to say the origin is, what's it say? Is it Epicitus? Is that how you say Epicitus? I think so,
Alex:yes.
Yoyo:Epicitus? Wow, well gotta get to know that guy. Obviously he's a Greek god. if you are ever tempted to look for outside approval, realize that you have compromised your integrity. If you need a witness, be your own. I thought, wow, how self empowering is that for those moments we need to hear that.
Alex:That's important isn't it? Yes. That's really important.
Yoyo:I also have to add what is important that even though I was disruptive in school, I was very funny. Myself and a fellow boy that I was in school with, we'd play pranks and sometimes he would go and hide in the cupboard before the class started and we'd see how long it was before the teacher realized he wasn't at his desk. It's so funny. That is, that
Alex:is crazy.
Yoyo:He's a grown up now. He's a proper grown up man, a proper responsible grown up man with a family, living in the other side of the hemisphere, the other hemisphere. And it's just amazing how we've both grown up really, you know, great people and not at all, discarded in any way in life. You've clearly. Made you a name for yourself in the army. What kind of decision was that that you had to take? Was that an easy one or was it a case of what else am I going to do?
Alex:It was what was I going to do next? I mean, I, I only spent six years in the army, the army, the army really wasn't for me. I love training. I love being in training and I love doing, doing that. And I love going on courses, but I found the, the army just was just missing something. the discipline was great. even though I, uh, sometimes struggled with that, who didn't, but I think it was not quite enough for me. I wanted to know more. It's, and when I look back now at my army records, it says things like he's a barrack room lawyer, he asked too many questions. and I was speaking to a friend of mine recently, who's now raised to the ranks of Colonel in the army. And I was talking about exactly this. he said to me, you just, what was a good soldier? If that was written about you, you asked too many questions. What,, what were they expecting? Why, why was I asking? Why, why was 22 year old Alex Bomberg asking too many questions? It wasn't because I was being disruptive or, you know, poor discipline. It's because I wanted to know more. And in fairness, my All my army reports do say how intelligent I was, but clearly there was a disconnect there, because I don't see myself as, I'm certainly not academically intelligent. I do, you know, I do struggle even now with that. I never really properly learnt the alphabet until I was in my mid twenties. Really? yeah. And so I'm, I think I'm dyslexic, although I've never, it's never been, I've never been given that label. I've definitely probably got on the spectrum somewhere, you know, for sure. But then I look around the security industry and who isn't, especially as well, people who are ex army or ex police, because You've got to be, you've got to have something maybe wrong with you, I think, to go into the infantry or into the police force. I don't think most normal intelligent people wouldn't take that, those routes.
Yoyo:Yeah, I agree with you. I joined the police force. And, uh, I, I think it's just not full of normal people. Um, I think that's a really good way of putting it. I think, but I couldn't be a nurse either. I couldn't be a carer. You know, the, the minute people are sick and needy, I'm out of there. You know, I can't emotionally cope with it. It makes me sound like really harsh, you know, but it's just, I'm just not, I don't, don't have the capacity. But if someone needs mentoring. Then I'm like, yeah, hold me back. Pin me down. I'm yours. How can I help?
Alex:Exactly. And I think you're right. And I think with the, it's a different, you know, people expect people who are in the military or the police to come out of that role and be normal. Yeah. they're not normal because they haven't been exposed to normal things.
Yoyo:Exactly.
Alex:It enables us to advise our clients on, you know, really complicated stuff and deal with stress in a completely different way, because I'm sure like lots of guests that you've had on board, you know, when our clients are people, generally, they're either people who have planned to increase their security, to improve their security culture, or they're people who are in crisis, most likely, They're in crisis because, let's be honest, nobody wants to spend money on security, and be proactive. Most, most clients don't want to do that.
Yoyo:Yeah, I'm going to prove a point here. I remember Christmas Day, I was working and, um, and I was, I was in custody an awful lot. We brought in a woman who liked to hide blades inside her. and around her person. So that wasn't fun having to, you know, do a strip search on Christmas Day. And my mate's like, well, we're having Christmas dinner. And it is different when you come home and your partner says, Oh, how was your day today? Uh, You know, not, not, I don't really want to talk about it because that day I had to file loads of images of children being abused. It's, it, it isn't normal. Even if you've had to drive at 110 miles an hour to try and catch someone, the adrenaline that's going through your body, you know, the fact that, you know, you potentially put your life in danger that day. It's exceptional, isn't it? Uh, the kind of things that those amazing people on our frontline have to do.
Alex:It is, and it's not really, I don't think it's really understood that well. Um, you know, I, I went through a huge stage in our recruiting, uh, over the years where I would only employ people who are ex military or ex police.
Yoyo:Yeah,
Alex:I would and I was well known for it in the in the Certainly in the close protection industry for those roles. I would only do that now. I've Massively opened that up, you know, I'm okay. I'm not in charge of the recruiting anymore. I've got a wonderful managing director uh who who is Um, but you know, that was that was our thing. We would only employ people who are ex military police I think they bring a unique set of skills to Security as a whole, um, because they got stuff which is ingrained into them during their training. Um, and, and the, and the, just the level of experience that they've picked up over 10, 15, 20 years, um, is, is amazing. And, you know, the security industry, I think it's developed massively in the last, I, when I first started, it's so professional. Now we are so lucky with that. We have great institutes, you know, in Europe, uh, and, and around the world that we can plug into and we can all, we can all learn and share our experiences, shared experiences, you know, like people who listen to your podcasts. So people are so open on your podcast, which is, which is amazing. There's no egos and people just. A a an open book. And I really, I really think that that's so important for people that are, are new in the industry or people that are trying to improve themselves or people who just wanna learn from each other. That's, that's a really good thing.
Yoyo:Yeah. And I remember when I was in those, you know, junior security management roles outside the police and, and I, I wasn't part of a community, I wasn't part of any networks. I didn't really know many people who did what I did, and it was very lonely. And I, and I only reflect on that from time to time because I didn't realize I was lonely. I felt disconnected. And when I joined ASIS, for example, I realized, oh my gosh, there are loads of people who are as batshit crazy about security as I am. And then, and then my whole life changed, literally changed. There were so many people who I just loved talking to and sharing experiences with and being with and drinking wine with. I love a glass of wine. But, um, I, and I think the podcast is designed, it was the concept was to, to connect those people who were where I was to say, look at all these people you can now connect with on LinkedIn. Now you know what they do, what's exciting you, what buzzes your tower, where do you want your career to go? Because in 2009, when I left the police, I was working in a shopping center, you know, uh, for seven pounds, three an hour, 2009. Right now, look, look, I get to speak to the finest minds in this, industry. I just think this industry, the opportunities it gives you are phenomenal and it seems that when you've left British Army, you've also gone on straight into technical intelligence. So how has technical intelligence led you to where you are now?
Alex:So I, I was very lucky. when I got out of the army, I had a, a brief time where I wanted to work in the, the catering industry. I wanted to actually work, I wanted to own my own restaurant. That didn't work out very, very quickly. I realized it's not where I wanted to be. So I was lucky. My brother, who was ex, is ex military, he's a, he was in the special forces for a short period of time. he worked in private security, and commercial intelligence and he managed to get me a job with a friend of his in London. I did that for, about 18 months and then went and worked for myself, started, my own thing. And during that period of time, I was very, very fortunate to meet, Somebody who was an ex former Director General MI5 and he needed certain things doing, and that went from going through bins in London, for targets, and around Europe doing surveillance, pattern of life studies, but also The other art, which is the technical side. So setting up covert cameras, bugging hotel rooms, bugging offices and cars and tapping telephones. So I will should probably add this in. So 2006, I was arrested for. Telephone tapping. Ugh. and, yep. And, bloody
Yoyo:police.
Alex:Yeah. And basically got away with it because the police screwed up the whole investigation. so that, that was, a big learning curve and that was a bit of a kick up the backside for me to actually not do that. Even though I could earn a thousand pounds a day, which back then was a lot of money. It wasn't the right course of action. and actually all the stuff I learned by being naughty. I now talk to clients about and companies about and try and get them to understand what is technically possible, what isn't technically possible.
Yoyo:And
Alex:why clients come to me and they're worried about lasers on windows. I say, well, hang on a minute, let's look in your bins first. So, you know, they want to spend, sometimes they want to spend vast amounts of money on problems that are just not there. so the technical area of I was very lucky actually, because back in those days, it was very easy to get into, it was very easy to learn that type of stuff. So I cut my teeth on some pretty big commercial cases, bugged some of the top hotels in Europe. Sometimes we'd bug the whole hotel, every room. We would rent them one after the other. it's a very famous hotel in London that we did that too, and that was, a very important, you know, legal case, which we've got a brilliant result on. Our client was bribed. we picked that up, bribed by another lawyer, actually. we picked that up and that was a good piece of evidence. Again, obviously not legal to use in court, but it was great leverage and it got a result for our client. So the technical side. Of espionage for me just sucked me right in. It was such an amazing thing to learn back then. Obviously things are very, very different now. So you're
Yoyo:almost a, you're almost a truth seeker, aren't you? Really? When you incorporate any type of espionage, you're seeking the truth.
Alex:Yes, and it's very, it's actually a very, very, very difficult area to be in because when you're doing it on a commercial level, actually dealing with the intelligence, you've got to be careful sometimes what you give your client because a client will, they'll just jump to conclusions. Obviously, sometimes you can be bugging somebody and you're not getting any result at all., you're getting, a product, but it's not the result the client wants. You can't make people go and do things. You can't make people talk about the case or, you know, interact with other people the way that you, you want to get your, your result. So that's very difficult. Um, so managing the client's expectations and managing the intelligence is as important as the quality of the recorded. product or the film or all the paperwork you're getting out of someone's bins. So, but yes, I was an absolute sponge with it. I loved it. It's so exciting to work in that world.
Yoyo:Let's look at how technology has changed over the decades. I don't want to say too many decades, Alex, you still look like a young man. In my security career, I've been into many top, I'd say FTSE 100 offices, especially the offices that have shared project groups involving different businesses. And I just remember being the head of security saying, you know. Why are we not doing any kind of bug sweeps? I use the term bug sweeps. I know that there's another term for it, which is, TSCM, but bug sweeps are really important, I think, and I think there's a lot of complacency, that it won't happen. Until, and then the irony is, and you'll be able to testify to this, is that no one would ever know if it did happen, because no one's checking. How's technology, evolved over your career?
Alex:So in relation to TSCM, just to quickly speak about that. You know, we carry out TSM switch all around the world. A lot of companies like them and see them as assurance. And they're brilliant, but they're only brilliant for right now. So I carry out a bug sweep in your office. It's clear now, today, that's it. if you're having a meeting three days time, an important meeting in three days time, a bug sweep is pretty much useless. Because if I was going to target your boardroom, your meeting room, if it's in a hotel or an open area or easy access into your building. I'm going to be doing it just prior to the meeting. So a lot of people don't really understand the whole concept of it and they're not educated very well. So I taught at universities about espionage and espionage isn't really taught. In any form at, degree, masters and PhD level wasn't PhDs do their own thing anyway, but it's not really spoken about. So, I go in there and talk about real world espionage and. you know, people get a real kick off that because they get a lot of learning from that because it's just not taught. So the understanding of the subject of how to, how a company's targeted, actually technology isn't the first thing I would look at. It's the people and the place., that's the first. First, targeter for us because people are always going to be the weakest link in it. That's why I'm now interested very much in the psychology of espionage and psychology of people targeting people. But the technology in the last. 20 years, it's two decades since I've been in moving into my third decade. 2002, I started my, my, my first company. So the last 20 years has grown so big. I mean, you know mobile, when I first started, you could. App into a mobile phone now, they're very much secure. We're dealing with end to end encryption, which is good However, that can be you know, and I always remind my clients end to end encryption on mobile phones can be overwritten by literally Off the shelf, software that you can get to look after your kids. So these, this monitoring software that you can get, you can put it on people's phones. it takes screenshots. So, and then it emails them off. Now, if you're communicating with somebody and you're going, Oh, it's end to end encryption, we're safe. And then, and the messages are disappearing afterwards. But if you've got a piece of software on your device, which is taking screenshots, unbeknownst to you. All that is useless, absolutely useless. So I think technology was technologies change so much. I mean, we've got so much CCTV now in offices, which is great. Uh, and, and, and in society, which I think is brilliant. Technology is great, but we lose with, with certainly with the advent of. Ai, uh, we'll, we're gonna lose it. We're gonna absolutely lose it. We are gonna be massively behind the curve as security professionals with, with artificial intelligence. Whilst we will lever it for our, for our own advantage. Um, I'm massively concerned where we're going. Um, I'm, I'm actually gonna be speaking at a, an event in May about social engineering. and artificial intelligence because if you with really good frauds historically with supply chain frauds or frauds against companies you only need a little bit of insider information so to really be able to carry out a good fraud and whether it's inside a threat or an external actor with artificial intelligence and the amount of information that we ourselves are putting on social media. That's without actually somebody trying to do some spoof calls to a company to gain more information. It's going to be horrendous. It's going to be really, really bad with deep fakes, with, uh, just, you know, with, with, um, just spoofing phishing emails, they're going to get so much more complicated. And I think we're, we're going to be in trouble as security professionals. We, and the only way that I personally see of dealing with that particular threat is two and three factor authentication. By different means. We've got to go back. We're going to need to go walk, walk down the corridor to somebody's office, tap on the door and say, did you send this email to me? Did you send me this invoice? We're gonna have to go back old school. Um, I just can't see any way of a way around it.
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Yoyo:You talked about, end to end encryption earlier, and it's worth noting that on the 21st of February, Apple scrapped its most advanced security encryption feature for, cloud data in Britain. It's only happening in Britain. this isn't great news. I mean, a lot of people had reassurance, didn't they, that, you know, That the Apple devices would be more secure. How does that have an impact in terms of, let's talk about social engineering. Let's talk about how AI and social engineering and the nudge theory.
Alex:Okay, so we'll go back to, your, so with your question in relation to, let's talk about nudge theory. Cause I think nudge theory is actually quite important in that. Firstly, so companies have far too much reliance on. On on data management with devices, they all think that it's all taken care of. And, you know, we worked on a large UK government data breach inquiry and did that. And people's expectation, even security experts expectations of what is already provided, what's included, it's unbelievable. And the amount of companies that are still using or organizations still using bring your own device. Boyd is frightening because it's scary. They don't even understand the legal implications of the ownership of data.
Yoyo:Tell us.
Alex:You know, yeah. And I, it scares the hell out of me. And I just don't, I think that, you know, oh, we've got a policy. Well, but your policy is meaningless because you don't actually own that device. So even just get sacking people, disciplining people. It's, if you've not, if you don't understand the full, the legal picture, the HR picture, it's, it's pointless. So I think, you know, the reliance on it is, is scary. And I think, I know, obviously, you've just mentioned nudge theory. Nudge theory is one of my most favorite things in the whole world, because a lot of companies want to spend a lot of money on security, as we all know, or they don't. which is great too. And nudge theory is a theory that's been developed really over the last 20, 30 years, where you can get people to do things without really asking them to do it or without putting too much emphasis on that. Just by giving them a little nudge. That's where it comes. That's where it comes from. So, for instance,, putting a sign in a toilet about the spreading of germs. You're not asking somebody to wash their hands. You're putting a sign up about the spreading of germs. Well, it's the same sort of thing with security. You can put signs up that, for instance, will deter people without saying. Without saying too much about the security, even signs for guard dogs, for instance, or in a company about changing passwords. So it nudged theory massively. If you're, if your listeners don't know much about it, go away and research about it because it can save clients millions of pounds and massively improve the culture, security culture within an organization. So that's such an important thing for me.
Yoyo:When you think that humans are inherently lazy in the sense that we always look for shortcuts and quicker ways to do things, nudge theory is kind of really very apt, isn't it, for those human traits. it's like when you get prompts to look at a new feature like Copilot. It's all over 365 right now, so the nudge there is take a look at the new features that we have, posters in the car park to encourage people to cycle to work. They work, don't they?
Alex:They do work and people are lazy and that's the biggest thing in security, isn't it? That's People are the weakest link, you know when I if I back in the day when I was looking at targeting people for espionage to find out who you know, not only who had access to the data but who would be the weakest link to leverage, People are just Easy, aren't they? And that's the thing, people talk about, there's so much investment on IT systems of cybersecurity and physical security systems, but people are lazy and people, a lot of people don't understand really the whole human nature when it comes to security. And that's a, that's such a special subject. So I want
Yoyo:to talk about the article that you've just published, which caught my attention just because the beautiful colors. Alex, your articles about cognitive warfare, take us through why you felt it was important to produce an article on cognitive warfare and understanding. It's called Understanding the Modern Battle for Influence.
Alex:So I've been, I've been actually really interested in this for some time, and it's a bit of a flip, but it comes out of, it comes out of VIPs using the VIPs and influencers and, sports personalities using social media badly. And the information that they were putting on social media, that's what, that was the hook for me that got me interested in this area. and, you know, I wrote an article a long time ago about it. Social media and ego and how we put information out there, on social media and how other people interact with that information, you know, and the last 15 years, how many celebrities have had their houses burgled because of information that they've put out on social media. So that got me into the whole information, social media information arena, really, and understanding that. And I started noticing. some pretty serious trends in relation to the information that was being put out there. And oddly, so it's a bit of a bit of a story this, but in 2017, my company sacked a contractor and this contractor then went online and started posting stuff about me and my business And culminated in 18 months of online harassment. Police weren't interested But that was actually an influence operation when you without him knowing it. He's not that bright but that was actually an influence operation to influence other people's opinion about me and my company So that also taught me a lot If you don't think it's going to happen to you, trust me, it can happen to anyone. So the whole world of, cognitive warfare and the information that's put online is, It's a huge subject, which I'm still exploring it. I'm still learning it all the time because it's changing all the time. The battlefield that we presently have in Europe, one of the largest superpowers in the world against a small company, a small country, and also, the way that the U S has just flipped, what's online about. A about Ukraine, and the whole situation, what's being put out, imagery that's being put out, persuasive imagery, perception, that's a huge area as well. So that's where your images are put out or videos are being put out and, they've got a tagline with them and a narrative with them, which isn't necessarily true. Certainly as I said with the advent of ai, where are we moving into this sphere?, what can we trust now?
Yoyo:I've got to ask you this. I think your experience level will be tuned into this. I couldn't help but observe over the last few days and for perspective, the AI video for Trump scars has just gone out and it's a little bit cringe to say the least. We've known that the cause for most wars and battles has always been about land and resources. So when we look at the All of the decades and centuries of former motives to go into war, I can't help but think all we're seeing now is greater transparency for the evil that it is, that where we've always suspected and we've had to study really hard and dig deep into, the rationalizations for certain, decisions to be made, empires getting bigger, empires ending, I can't help but think if we go right to the very, very top level, this is all that's going on here. There's no way that Trump and Putin are friends. They've just enabled, they just know how to sit at the same table and strike deals. And they're after the same thing. And they've agreed probably to not touch each other's assets or where each other are going. That's my very crude take on it in terms of, how AI and fakery and everything else is going to get involved in this mixed game. I'm always looking to try and see a clear line. What do you think to that theory?
Alex:I think you're right. I think the more, unfortunately, with the social media creates so much noise, doesn't it?
Yoyo:Too much. It's noise. It's noise. It's designed to make you deaf to the truth, really, I think.
Alex:Yeah, it is. And you're right about those two, two individuals. I think, Trump, even though I've always been a conservative, Trump absolutely scares the hell out of me. And I don't think we understand the truth, until, you know, maybe 20 years down the line of what's, what the reality is, and it is quite scary. Whatever happens, we, I'm, I fear that Russia needs to be defeated, maybe, or it needs to have a proper end. I do worry that it's a bit of a sellout, what's going on at the moment, and I worry that we may face the consequences of that in the future. Certainly, I think it was Chamberlain, piecing up the piece in our time speech in 1938, I believe, with something like that, where he believed that there was a piece was Attainable, and believed Hitler, and we all know how that ended. I'm worried that we're not learning from history. That really does worry me. And the information noise out there, there's so much, it's on so many levels. I can't read newspapers very well anymore because I see rubbish. You pick up the Daily Mail. It's all about celebrities and, it's not news. It's opinion, isn't it? And that's the trouble., where's journalism gone?
Yoyo:Oh yeah, don't swear at me with the Daily Mail. My uncle reads it and he keeps sending me clips and I'm like, God, he's one of those boomers, completely tuned in to the Daily Mail rhetoric. I've stopped reading newspapers, I think, after I was delivering them at the age of 14, because I worked out then that they were full of rubbish when they were trying to out John for being gay. And I'm like, who cares? That's, that's how old I was when that story came out. But look, it's going to be interesting, isn't it? You know, to see certainly geopolitically now, and I appreciate I could be taking you to a marginal element of your expertise, I do worry about next steps. I worry about. All of the noise and I'm thinking is teaching people to just be a good critical thinker, the answer to see through that noise and finally tune, what they need to know.
Alex:I think the security, certainly security professionals, we need to have such a wide view. We can't be, we can't be narrow. We've got to, geopolitically, we've all got, we've all got our hand on the pulse. fingers on the pulse when it comes to geopolitics and certainly in our own geographical areas too. I think we need to try and forecast what's going on a little bit more. We need to arise and scan and we need to be, you know, we need to be aware of the sheer amount of noise out there and try somehow to filter out what's important to us in our organizations because we do have these threats coming. you know, coming towards us. So being more resilient as an organization is really is vital. I think, we talk to a lot of clients about resilience now, because obviously nobody wants to use the S word, the security word, because it's cost is costly. we talk about risk and resilience and how we can improve their organizations through, working on culture firstly, before we start spending lots of money. But I think, yeah. For companies for risk managers and companies to understand the sheer amount of noise and try and filter it, it's got to be vital, hasn't it? It's got to be vital. What do you think?
Yoyo:We've always known that wars create a lot of wealthy people and I'm worried about the people who are on the wealthy sidelines, the proxy. gainers, the proxy winners, ultimately, who are now going to see the amount of budget that the UK is going to put into, military resources and defense. Then I'm thinking who's benefiting from this, who's getting these contracts, who's making the money. and are those people, the people who are pulling the strings behind the scenes. So I'm drawing a, cause and effect kind of a causal link there. And I'm thinking it just feels like highly manipulative. because we know that happens.
Alex:We do. I own a body armor company. so it might be, that might be me, eventually, who knows. But I do agree with you. I do agree with you. That's the same people, isn't it? That are involved in this type of thing. And that is, that is concerning. I worry, having served in Bosnia, in the mid nineties. What have we learned as a society? We've learned nothing. We've learned even through my time, you know, my, my short life, 52 years, we've learned nothing as a, we're still pointing guns at each other and we're still doing the same thing. We're not speaking. it is concerning. Yeah., forgetting the, you know, forgetting the money, monetary side of it's frightening, isn't it, in, in our age of mass communication that we've still got the problems that we've got as a society
Yoyo:on a lighter note, in 2011, it looks like you and I were both busy for the royal wedding of, prince William. So you were the resident security expert. weren't you, for the wedding? And I had the, I had the feed from London going through to North America through my data center.
Alex:Ah, so yes, I was. Yeah, so I worked with Canadian television, Entertainment Tonight. And, their team and it was absolutely amazing. It was based just at Canada gate opposite the palace. And I talked about, potential issues, historic issues as well. with, incidents that have taken place at that point, against the royal family and fixated persons. I was on standby obviously for most of it, although I did a couple of interviews, during the wedding, I think I must've done about 10. in total. obviously I was on live for that day, but yeah, they kept me on standby just in case, something happened. Thankfully it didn't.
Yoyo:It was a very good, very well organized event, but actually I'm finding that all of the Royal events are incredibly well put together, you know, from every perspective, really. We got to witness, didn't we, the passing of the late Queen, which was Just impeccable live TV. So I wonder who was, maybe I'll find one day the chap who consulted on that one. But look, when you do a lot of keynote speeches, what do you find are the most common questions people ask you after you've spoken?
Alex:I think people are interested in my journey, to be honest, how they might, increase their own network and their own net worth because, I come across a lot of people who have done a master's degree in security risk management, who, don't even know how to write a risk report, who don't properly, who don't properly understand impact, and probability, or who, are still one of those people on LinkedIn that say, I don't add people on LinkedIn that I don't know. Well, that's not what LinkedIn's for. So there's sort of things that people come to me for, how can I get work? How can I increase my own personal, worth really? I think they're the things that people, so it's not necessarily. Anything that I've said about technology or about human psychology, it's more about, you know, how can they improve their own, journey.
Yoyo:Did you have any regrets about anything that, you did in your career? Did you think, oh, you know, I should never have been a parish councillor?
Alex:No, I love, you know what, actually, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, so my father died, in 2015, and he was massively involved in the local community, and many, many charities. He was brought up in the east end of London and had nothing. He was one of nine, youngest of nine, had nothing, went to, he went to special school, ended up as a teacher at that special school and ended up as the chairman of the school. so my father taught me quite a lot of stuff and when he passed, I knew that this was my time to take over some of the roles in the community that he'd done. So I spent seven years as a parish councillor, absolutely loved being involved in local politics, although I found it increasingly. because it's okay. Yes, it's non political, but to get things done to push things up, with even dealing with the district council planning, I was on the planning committee for seven years, and I was on the Gloucestershire strategic planning committee, as well for two years. So trying to actually get things done. done was really, really difficult, but I was pleased because I had some really key things that I did, which was I named a local, a new local settlement. And I named some of the roads in that local settlement after, my parish's, uh, World War I dead. And I thought that was a good thing for my legacy. but for people that are listening who don't know too much about parish councils, they're really, really important. It's not all dog bins, dog poo bins and potholes. Although I think I've saved Eastington, one pothole at a time, maybe.
Yoyo:Oh, the potholes are so bad at the moment, I don't know, my poor tires of my car. I think everyone feels the same way, but it's interesting, isn't it? I was listening to our London Mayor. On LBC and, James O'Brien gave him, they gave people the opportunity to ring up and say, Oh, what are you going to do about this? and it was just interesting. It was things like, potholes. It was things like, buildings that are in a dilapidated state and unsightly and attract graffiti. And it's all the things that really matter to people locally. So I do applaud you for going that in that direction, but my gosh, I can't think of a more frustrating role. than being in government locally.
Alex:It is frustrating. We can segue straight into broken window theory there. Let's
Yoyo:do it. Let's do it.
Alex:So obviously broken window theory is exactly about that. It's about dilapidated areas falling into disuse that attract crime. They attract, drug use, and the dangerous areas, you know, it's so obviously broken window theory. Brought out in the 90s. Well, actually, I think it goes back quite a long way, but it's developed in the 1980s and first really deployed on the New York subway. So the two gentlemen that developed this theory, basically, they said, if you've got a dilapidated area. Or an area which is starting to become dilapidated. That will attract crime. So the New York subway is a prime example. You start cleaning those areas up and making them look like there's some proper ownership there. A capable guardian, if you like. if you want to put it on risk management terms. that then Decrease. People feel proud about those areas and it decreases the amount of crime there. So broken window theory is really important. You can apply broken window theory to a company that's got poor policies, poor procedures or security culture. You know, things will start going wrong. If someone's stealing pens, that person might well be doing fraud. So, you know, broken window theory, you can apply it to your own organization, which is good practice to do.
Yoyo:Although I've always been a little bit partial to post it notes in most companies I work for, I always grab a pile of them, take them home. Just because they are so useful. Do you know what I mean? You could be on the bus, you could be on the, yeah, I've always got a pack of post it notes in my handbag. I've got low supplies now though, I might have to buy some. great chatting to you. Of all the things that you do, risk and crisis management, organizational resilience and Kaizen. Great. Managing intelligence, coalition. Across international networks, counter espionage and TSCM, Royal and diplomatic security and protection, closed protection and executive protection, cyber security and cyber crime, psychology of espionage and the psychology of terrorism and terrorist ideology, which is your favorite, Alex.
Alex:I think actually my favorite is finding great people to work with out of everything because I, you can't be an expert in everything you really can't so I'm quite blessed that, I've got a great network and I've come across some amazing people. I've now got a great guy running my, company's, Christian Hill. So I think actually the most important thing in security is not the subject matters., it's the people that we work with and the people that we discover and come across and the friends that we make and the colleague, you know, not just friends, but the colleagues that we make and the relationships that we foster, that's the most important thing. But I love. I'm passionate about espionage. I'm passionate about the psychology of that, because I think the psychology of security, you can put it into so many, I can speak to you about, you know, broken window theory or rational choice theory and rational choice theory you can put across any crime, because that's just how criminals think and how using nudge theory and Swiss cheese theory, we can understand how to best combat Crime and the threats to our company and understanding the vulnerabilities to our company with using Swiss cheese theory.
Yoyo:It's really hard to end there. To be honest, Alex, it really is. Alex, thank you so much for joining us on the security circle for sharing all your insights. Perhaps we should get you back for a more tailored subject where we can really deep dive.
Alex:Thank you very much. Be the wind
Yoyo:beneath the wings. It's so romantic. Bless. Thanks, Alex.