The Security Circle
An IFPOD production for IFPO the very first security podcast called Security Circle. IFPO is the International Foundation for Protection Officers, and is an international security membership body that supports front line security professionals with learning and development, mental Health and wellbeing initiatives.
The Security Circle
EP 137 From Warships to Luxury Hotels – Darren Carter on Service & Security
BIO
Darren Carter – Vice Chair, ASIS UK Chapter 208 | Director of Security, Luxury Hospitality
Darren Carter is a highly respected security leader whose career spans over three decades across military, corporate, and luxury hospitality sectors. Beginning his professional journey in the Royal Navy, Darren developed a foundation of discipline, resilience, and operational excellence during eight years of service, including specialist training in air traffic control and maritime operations.
Transitioning to the private sector, Darren applied his skills to corporate security before moving into the luxury hospitality industry, where he has spent nearly 20 years safeguarding some of London’s most prestigious hotels. Known for his Security Through Service philosophy, he integrates discreet risk management with exceptional guest experience, protecting high-profile clientele including heads of state, royalty, and global icons.
As Vice Chair of ASIS UK Chapter 208, Darren is deeply committed to professional development, networking, and mentoring within the security community. His voluntary leadership reflects his belief in giving back to the industry and advancing its reputation for professionalism and integrity.
Darren’s unique journey — from navigating warships to managing the complexities of luxury hotels — has made him a sought-after voice on risk, leadership, and the evolving role of security in high-end environments.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/darren-carter-cpp-msyi-f-isrm-16a4278/
Security Circle ⭕️ is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers
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Yoyo:Thank you for your company today. Well, I'm going to thank somebody for his company today. Darren Carter, welcome to the security circle podcast. How are you doing?
Darren:Good morning. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very well at this moment. Not sure about the next hour, but we're good at the moment.
Yoyo:We'll do it. We'll do it. Well, we'll do it. We'll do a sit rep, uh, 26 minutes to see how you're doing.
Darren:Exactly. Yeah. No, I'm thankful to be here. Thanks for the invitation.
Yoyo:Oh, you are more than welcome. Talking about sit reps, you've got a military career behind you. Haven't you? When you were a little boy playing with tanks and cars in the mud, did you always want to join the military?
Darren:Not at all. It was never in my mind, really. Uh, I come from a background where my grandfather was a, um, I guess the closest to a chief fire officer at Heathrow. Um, that's the closest, apart from World Wars, of course, but no, I never envisaged that moment at all, actually. Um, uh, uh, only, uh, I guess the, um, Born in a small village outside of Henley., I guess there was, uh, not a lot going on. I was definitely running around the woods with makeshift weapons and digging trenches and all the rest of it. But, um, no, I never thought it would end up that way.
Yoyo:Do you remember your first day?
Darren:I do. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So this was a train journey down to, uh, down to Plymouth, joining, um, HMS Raleigh, the entry training center for the Royal Navy. Um, and I do remember it very well, actually. Um, and it was quite. exciting actually. I was never daunted by it. Um, some friends that already joined traveling the world. That was my motivation enough, you know, coming from this quite small village and outside, as it says. So yeah, um, I was, I was ready to go. Um, but, the first day, uh, I do remember having the haircut and going through all of the, um, you know, in the, in, in the following days, all of the jabs, two arms up, literally being speared and it was quite a, an eye opener. Um, but I, I have to say I did enjoy it. I did like the order. I didn't cope too well as many don't, I'm a guest with the quite, um, abrupt drill sergeants and, you know, it's a different style of leadership that you're not exposed to until you've actually been there on the ground. And some don't cope with it at all, actually, they're a
Yoyo:bit, they're a bit rude, aren't they, drill sergeants? Well, they can be, absolutely. Yeah,
Darren:yeah. But of course, there's a backdrop to that. I mean, there is a purpose to it, as kind of many of you listeners will know. I mean, there is a purpose to it.
Yoyo:Tell us about that purpose. Why is it so important that they literally disrespect you while telling you what to do?
Darren:Well, I mean, I guess they are, they're testing your character, your resolve, resilience, your ability to be able to, cope with and absorb levels of stress. Um, and it is character building. It literally is character building. And it depends how you, um, accept that as being part of a conditioning, really. Um, you'll be thankful for it when you're tested. Um, maybe not all the time. People take it different ways, um, I guess. But yeah, that's the backdrop to it. They're literally testing your result, building your character, strengthening your result to cope with. With with moments of stress. Um, so they're building coping mechanisms. I guess that's what they're doing, actually, from the outset. So there is a purpose to it. And of course, there's order, discipline, structure, um, you know, even to the point of being taught through, um, something I always remember, um, not fondly, I guess, but, um, being taught how to wash yourself right in the shower, literally. um, with somebody demonstrating this whole process, which is, you know, at the age of 18, you're like, I think I've probably passed this phase of my life, but, you know, there is some order to it, right? There is a meaning, there's a purpose, you know. And I
Yoyo:have to ask you, did you learn something when they were teaching you how to wash yourself? Cause that's really important, isn't it? When it comes down to living in close quarters, disease and infections and things like that, what did you learn?
Darren:Um, I don't recall having any necessary takeaways, but, um, but it is, I mean, that for some people, I guess, you know, you meet all sorts when you arrive in one of those initial training centers and, um, and yeah, you're right, living in close quarters, particularly in the environment of a warship, um, you know, when you get, um, some, you know, they use the term crabbiness, right? This is, uh, um, it doesn't go down too well and it doesn't win too many friends, right? Um, so, uh, yeah, I mean, that is super important and about being organized. you've got very little space on one of these, um, uh, uh, kind of vessels. So yeah, I mean, there is a purpose to everything. Although you don't, you may not realize, um, or accept or understand why things are happening like that. The more you, you know, the moment you arrive on a warship and you see really, is that where I've got to put my kit? All this kit I'm supposed to take with me. Um, you understand about how important it becomes to be organized, packed away. Ready for rough seas, all this sort of stuff.
Yoyo:Yeah, and at least, you know, your crewmates are as clean as you are, in the sense, because you know, everyone's gone through that same conditioning. There is a bit of, I mean, I only touched on this a little bit with the SAS training, because the Marines, for example, they are really particular about cleanliness, because, yeah. it will kill you if you don't keep your feet clean or as clean as they can be. And the same with other areas of your body that are quite, you know, um, prone to infections and things, but there's no point in, you know, trying to trick 25 miles with 85 kilos on your back with a boil on your ass. Do you know what I mean?
Darren:Well, exactly. And you can't, you can't have personal hygiene. The reason why you're taken out of the game, right? Because this is a major problem. Is it guys that operate in those types of environments. Yeah. It's super important. Yeah.
Yoyo:It kind of got me to thinking, because they talked, didn't they, last year a little bit about, you know, young folk doing a couple of years of, you know, service, uh, some other countries do, for example, that you go and do a couple of years of military service before you go into your career or before you go into university and that you can't help but think, crikey, if all young folk, learned really good basic rules like that. When I was in the police, I saw some really bad states of play, you know, people not really being taught properly. The very basics. There's probably some benefit. Would you, would you be pro national service, Darren?
Darren:Yeah, absolutely. I am. I am. And it's a topical conversation course. And that came up last year. And I visited actually, you know, Billy Billingham, one of the SAS Des Wins tour. And I posed that question about what his thoughts were about, uh, returning to some kind of, um, a military service, um, and, and it was one of the questions that he posed to the audience, and it didn't take a handful, and back then, this was probably two years ago, I think, in Guildford, um, and it struck up quite a lengthy conversation. He had to move on from it because he at that point was, was an absolute advocate of it. Um, and I do feel that it would be, I mean, given the right framework, um, I do think that, you know, an element of people that do, I mean, just for those that, that decide not to continue further education into university, etc. So, you know, an alternative pathway. Um, I'm not sure quite how you, I wouldn't want to see, you know, a conscript type format to it, but, but I think there should be, and I don't know what the answer is in terms of creating that pathway where, um, there is, you know, if you choose not to continue, uh, in your academic career, You may be compelled to have to go through this pathway. I do think it would, um, I do think it would help us on many levels, societal issues, I think, around that, um, for sure. I think people, when they understand, um, a little bit more an alternative way of thinking around, you know, how you manage yourself personally, respect others, et cetera, all those types of things, because we see, you know, there's many reasons for us not to be connected as humans right now around the world. Um, and that sense of, you know, Uh, comrade, um, ship and ownership of yourself. And the safety of others around you I think can only be a good thing, so I think for those, and many other reasons, there's probably equal amount of reasons why people would choose not to, but I think for the betterment of society, yeah I'm 100 percent supporting of it actually to be honest.
Yoyo:Wouldn't it be great if there was a trade off that supposing you are from a lesser income family and going to university is a real tough thing to do? for you financially and because the support isn't there maybe it's not there emotionally as well. But then if you go and do your two years national service as a trade off you can get into university to a certain number of different degree courses that help you with your career because you've already done your service to the community and to the government. I can't help but think there's a really good trade off there for more disadvantaged folk.
Darren:Yeah I guess yeah that's one pathway which is, um, Definitely worth exploring. I think that would definitely help our, um, uh, our beloved security industry, I guess, because there's kind of a, uh, an almost like dotted line through to our industry from that, I guess. But, but yeah, that's a great example of, of one way you could frame it, I guess.
Yoyo:This is why I love having great conversations, Darren, because it's an echo chamber of great thought leadership. But before we go into the security industry, nice little segway you were trying to attempt there. I see. Um, I want to ask you about your sea legs, because how did you know you were going to be all right on the, the ocean at large, having not been on a warship vessel before?
Darren:Well, I've done the crossing from Portsmouth to Le Havre a few times, I guess, but, you know, this is the thing, actually, people, um, maybe don't realize that, you know, if you're born without sea legs, you'll never gain them, right? It's not something you can learn. You either cope with rough seas or you don't. So there was a, um, Commander officer of one warship that I was on, I shan't name him, but, um, he was just green most of the time, actually. I remember going through the, um, uh, Bay of Biscay with this, and, you know, on the bridge. Oh, yeah, yeah. Um, actually, Irish Sea is the worst sea I've ever been in. Yes. But, um, but, you know, yeah, so this guy, and, and the moment things got a bit, Rocky, he would be straight off the bridge to his cabin. Right, he was, he was one of those people you could visibly see his tinge of green appearing on his, but yeah, yeah, so you don't actually, and yeah, I used to at times feel a bit, a bit queasy, but generally I was okay, but yeah, some people, I mean it can knock half the ship out actually at a time, um, so yeah, it can be pretty bad,
Yoyo:yeah, the Irish Sea is known for being very, very rough because it's basically a massive body of water trying to go through a very, very small in proportion gap between land, between Ireland and the UK. The Bay of Biscay is also known for being really rough because it's basically a very shallow shelf. That particular sea, this great big arc, you know, in, in land and that shelf is relatively shallow. So there's a lot of movement on the surface. Hence why it's right. Although I did cruise past the Bay of Biscay and my best friend, she said to me, yeah, um, we were rolling off the bed. She said, uh, when she went and I was like, Oh gosh, you know, what's it going to be like? And it would be a flat clam by itself. on the Bay of Biscay, flat Calm, and you just, you just, you just don't imagine those days. It wasn't quite so nice coming back, as they say, quite lumpy. Um, lots of people taking pictures out the windows and some furniture not quite moving. Uh, but what what would you say is your most memorable seafaring day? And for what reason?
Darren:Wow, I guess there are many, but I mean, I guess quite the opposite to rough seas. There are times where you think, you know, how, um, I think actually, before I come to that point, I would say, you know, being part of the Royal Navy, um, there's no RNLI in this game. Right. So quite the opposite. We'd probably be the people that would go and Rescue and are in an eye vessel in distress, having set out on a rescue mission itself. Um, so when things do become really, really rough and you think, you know, some days you have, you know, weird nightmares about the ship, not actually recovering from a dive into the face of a swell, there's no one coming for you, right? You're it. So, you know, that could be a bit, um, you know, daunting at times. And it's the same with fire. It, you know, there's no fire service. I would say most, the vast majority of people on a warship are, you know, trained firefighters. So we go through quite, um, uh, um, in a very thorough, um, courses, Phoenix back in the day where you are, where you are probably not to the extent of, but you're pretty much a trained firefighter in all respects. So, but anyway, coming back to the point, quite the opposite. So there are days I recall, you know, two and a half thousand, 3, 000 miles. From the nearest point of land in the Atlantic, and you talk about still calm waters, mirror glass water, this is the types of day that I've experienced, you know, on the flight deck, on the quarter deck, sundown. I mean, these are just extraordinary moments where, um, you just think, wow, this is just, it is just unreal. You could be sat there by yourself, actually, and it is, um, in absolute silence. Absolute silence. I mean, there are days where I can talk about, you know, parties at sea and all this stuff and doing, you know, lots of silly business, but, uh, but there are moments where you think how lucky you are actually to see these things where, you know, traveling the world with, you know, two, 300 mates. And that's kind of a, a nice thing. And that is the thing, you know, when you are traveling the world, part of the Royal Navy, you, no matter where you are in the world, you come back to little England. You know, you come back on board and you're back into, I mean, literally into a part of your, your normal life back home. You could be thousands of miles away from home, actually.
Yoyo:I love that army phrase, you know, born in Carlisle, but made in the British Army, made in the British Navy, however you want to put it. I love that. They really do, um, sort of touch a point. So, How many years were you in the Navy?
Darren:Eight, almost a day.
Yoyo:That's enough to find transitioning afterwards quite challenging, and some folk do, don't they, find it incredibly difficult, because you're going from a very disciplined, very structured kind of Darth Vader y order of the universe, but with less death and murder for some, um, and then you're going into a rather kind of chaotic free for all world. How did you fare with the transition?
Darren:Yeah, it's something I didn't, um, see coming as soon as it did, to be honest. So we had a decision to make basically with, you know, we either wanted to start a family or I progressed in my career. Um, and I was having a great career at that time. so we're talking six and a half years in, we'd both experienced, so myself and my wife at that point lives. On the Isle of Portland. So I was an air trafficker based at HMS Osprey, uh, Royal Naval Air Station, Portland. We were married at that point. Um, and we'd seen, we'd been, so we lived around people. It was a great lifestyle actually, but we lived around people that had, and I deployed with, um, guys that came back finding six month old babies and all this sort of stuff. Um, my wife wasn't up for that sort of thing. So we took the decision that we'd have to leave. Now, um, I was 27 at that point. I never envisaged, I thought I was going to leave, become an air trafficker, civil air trafficker outside. But actually, so National Air Traffic Service, and that's, um, I refused my, Uh, place at Bournemouth Herne Air Traffic School, because they felt I was too old, uh, to, to consume the training, um, which was bizarre, and our, um, our flag officer and aviation got involved, and said this is completely ridiculous, because I would have to have taken the place of a full student, albeit I'd only have to do part of the course, and I was a training risk, because it's all gone grey upstairs, anyway, so I never envisaged, that was my first port, so I thought, well, what am I going to do, this is my trade, can't really do that outside, And at the time I was working in, for the last part of my career, working with the commando helicopter force, working with a lot of our marines and everything. A lot of these guys were going out becoming, you know, bodyguards, going into this glamorous world of, of bodyguarding. And I thought, okay, we'll do some of this. Then we'll go, it's just completely way off my, um, and I wasn't a security specialist by any means in my military career. So I went on a course, uh, with task international, very good course actually around close protection and, you know, all of these types of things and went to work with BP, not in a close protection role at all, corporate security. But I, I guess the transition for me was made somewhat easy because I went into an environment that, so for example, to the people I met on that first day, are very good friends of mine to this day. We're very close. Um, one was coming out of the Navy, one was coming out of the army that time, so we were in a kind of a, an actual transition type role. It was mostly military ex former military personnel in there. And all of the banter, all of the, you know, acronyms and all the rest of it was kind of, um, easy to get through. So yeah, the transition piece was, kind of simple for me, I guess. Um, but I have both mentored and just ad hoc conversations and seen others, observed others through the years. I think, the way fortunately that our industry has become is professionalizing still on that journey. I think it's not so easy to transition right now, unless you have done a lot of preparatory work before we come out. And we see this more often now, actually. So, you know, people currently serving, going off and doing a and masters or, um, actually planning for their departure a lot more in advance than what I would have seen back in my day, you literally came out and expected to kind of just move into a, a security role was kind of a, the pathway was open, but now you, you see, fortunately, people preparing themselves, making themselves more, appealing to move into some quite, you know, interesting roles, actually.
Yoyo:Folk tend to get a bit of criticism, don't they? When they transition into the security industry, for example, police, quite senior police, they get a bit of, um, criticism. You know, what do you know about security? There's an awful lot to learn about security. And there are some that would say, well, what would an air traffic controller in the Navy have to offer the security industry? What you've just done is explain why the transition is so relevant. Why you offer. Not just that face value of air traffic controller, you offer everything else that goes into it and what the security industry needs very much. Did you face any criticism when you were green in the role? I know I did.
Darren:Yeah, I mean you do. But, um, I think my early, the early part of my career, I did definitely from, um, you know, from my colleagues on the day who were, I'm, I guess, perceived to be more security focused, more, you know, so their careers have taken a more, you know, security focus. So, yeah, I did. There was a lot of banter around, around me being an air trafficker, I guess, being a bit fluffy in that environment I mean, there's opportunity for people. There's always criticism, isn't there? Um, where, wherever you go about people's, abilities comparing to others and. Um, and all these types of conversation, but, you know, you just choose not to hear it, don't
Yoyo:you? I, I made a huge, well, I say I made a huge mistake. It wasn't, like, deliberate. I wasn't doing something deliberately to, um, piss people off. Um, but in the police, you have to be very specific with your language. So, you use very specific terms like, I require. You don't ask someone to come to custody to give a voluntary interview. You require them to come to custody and you make an appointment and it's a lawful order. So that language, when I translated that into the security industry, I remember contacting the controller and I said, yeah, I require three shifts to be covered for, you know, this weekend. And I was just pissing people off because they were like, what do you mean you be require? I thought I was being quite clear about what I wanted and you know, I'd still end the email, best regards, you know, have a nice day. So it must've come across as a bit of a contradiction. Uh, but look, I don't think people need much if they want to have a dig at you. Or dig you out for stuff like that. They don't need much. But I remember my boss sitting down and saying, can you modify your written language so that it's not so, aggressive? And I'm like, aggressive? Aggressive would be, I require three security officer shifts to be filled this weekend. And if you don't do it, I'll come around and beat you up. That's aggressive.
Darren:Yeah. You've got a level in which you can go to yet. You haven't quite seen.
Yoyo:That's what's been quite nice. It's not like I ended the email, shove it up yours and, uh, have a bad shitty day. So, yeah, look, it's, that was something I had to learn. And so I had to sort of soften my language a little. And then when I went to Accenture, I had to soften it some more and it was a case of, would it be awfully okay if I could possibly, would you mind, um, having a think about this, you know, so, uh, we, we. I think the key is adapting, isn't it? And you've clearly shown you've adapted. Why has being able to adapt supported you so much moving into a luxury hospitality business? I mean, who would have thought?
Darren:Yeah, I was going to mention actually, you've asked a question, perfect timing, of course, but you're an expert at this. yeah, I think that was the biggest, transition for me in terms of learning, moving into this hospitality environment that I'm now. and again, that came about by, you know, I guess. accident more than so I would been a BP for 18 months or so, and, uh, was, you know, getting itchy feet got the opportunity to come up through. And I was contracted officer there at that point and I went into Forte hotels back in the day. Seems a long, long time ago. As a contracted officer against the learning from, the ground up in Heathrow, which is an absolutely, you know, unreal learning environment back in the day in an 800 bedroom hotel. but just moving into that environment where in a, an absolutely service led environment was, a bit of an eye opener for me. So, being in a security role. So you're kind of, you're almost, at polar opposites of I'm a business whereby and we're kind of in some eyes seen as the enforcers, the bad people, the aggressors, you're working in a very soft, inviting luxury environment. But actually, when you learn about what your role actually is in there, as you know, you are just in a position whereby you're. Um, enabling. Well, first and foremost, you are a hospitality professional that that specializes in security. This is where you must see it. And if you start from that point, then you begin to understand where your world intertwines with that of your lobby teams, your, your, um, or your front facing teams, food and, restaurant, retail, and all the rest of it. But you're an enabler of us to do business safely. That's what you're there to do, which is in most cases, That's people in our industry. we are there to support the business in a way that they go about their work, confidently and safely. but that, that transition in, in, in there is, probably the biggest, well, one of the steepest learning curves of my career, actually, about how to accommodate, people with super high expectations. in a way that, you're not outwardly taking anything from them, but you're kind of steering them in a way that, you know, this is kind of how we work here.
Yoyo:I don't know that. A lot of people would understand exactly what the biggest challenges, risk challenges are facing hotels. I can only say that from personal experience, every time I remember walking into a hotel in Monaco and you kind of enter street level, you go up a lift and then the reception. is on the first floor, but everything in Monaco is, you know, is incrementally built in the cliff side.
Darren:And
Yoyo:I just remember thinking, crikey, I can walk up here with a bomb in my suitcase or leave it at the bottom of the lift. And who's going to, there's no, I just feel that they're very soft targets, Darren. That's the, probably the correct term for it. You know, they're relying, aren't they on. Everyone entering having sincere intent around, being a guest or meeting somebody for a business meeting that they're very open. How do you face that every day?
Darren:Yeah. So, I mean, you're quite right. They are, you know, what other term is they are, they're very private spaces open to the public. Right. So when you book particularly when you're in a luxury environment and you're the single special person in that experience, right, that that's how you're expected to feel. And that's how as hospitality professionals, we want people to feel right that they're unique, that they're that they're the one we're caring for today. It's all about you today. But this is how we this is the mantra. So, yeah, very private, open to the public. And there's so you have to accept. that level of opportunity that exists in there. My early part of my career it was quite rapid where I, went into a management role in house and then became area and to a UK role. But it was outside of London, albeit I had Commitments within London. I was not generally there too much, but I came into London full time in 2005. Quite a busy year for London. yes. Yeah, exactly. And had, you know, a dozen hotels in London, all in key, places, prominent places and prominent buildings. Leicester Square, Oxford Street, all these places. You kind of have to understand there is a lot of screening that takes place within a hotel lobby, not just by security staff. We've got a program which I built into the company around about 2006, 2007, which is a security through service program, which is based on the whole power of Hello. So if we are doing our job as. exemplary providers of service excellence, then we must use those hosting skills to spot opportunities where things may be a lot quite as they, you would want them to be. Nefarious intent, all this type of thing. So we've got this initial engagement process, attempt to welcome everybody into your premises and spot those moments of opportunity where you might seek intervention. so, you know, if those guys, I mean, this is just, this reaches to many, it costs a wide net over. Risk really. So our most predominant risk day to day, certainly within London hotels and, any, in a global city is that of what you might term as petty crime, bad thefts, that type of thing. It's not petty crime. It's quite impactful, obviously, for the victim, hugely impactful. So,, in order to try and, create an environment where, you know, we set this baseline. whereby you kind of, and people do understand, they know the types of people that come into their buildings and they, and they can through brief moments of engagement, they can begin to understand actually that person is not typical of my workplace. And they do know people that work on these customer facing lobby type host roles. They are, they're people that love talking, they love interacting with people, that's what they're there to do. So, they're, they're quite aware of. You know, different types of people, different types of character cultures, and they love engaging with people. So that that lends itself really well to having this, um. This kind of natural screening process, as long as we train people to understand what do I do now? Now I've kind of become uncomfortable with this interaction. What happens from here? So this program recognizes that. And we've got an award scheme in place whereby we will recognize people, they get a nice challenge coin, they get, um, a bottle of champagne and stuff, for extraordinary moments where they've clearly prevented something. So look, this environment is, um, it's, uh, it, it, it, it's very challenging. Our, our risk posture changes. Multiple times a day, dependent upon who's with us. And that could be who's upstairs in the bedroom. Um, you know, these could be, you know, political giants, heads of state, royalty, sporting superstars, you know, all these people, you could have a conference, um, going on at the same time. It could be, I mean, that's the other thing, right? So it seems to me that pretty much no matter what industry you operate in, there are some, there is probably a group out there that doesn't like what you do. They're opposed to it. There's some active group activists. So today we've got, um, XR back in London with an un, you know, unknown, uh, kind of ambition for the day. They've set a rendezvous and then they're going off to places that are going to, support fossil fuels, et cetera. Now, we've had briefings this morning, for example, about that, because, that's quite wide open really. And they're quite unpredictable. So that there are a lot of things up. So we have this kind of we have to try and aggregate the risk throughout any day. In a hotel, so, you could have people come and go, uh, you can have an event on which is quite prolific, it's publicized, it's out there, people know about it, three hours time that's gone, someone else moves in, so you have to kind of have this kind of posturing that maneuvers itself through the day, seamlessly floats past, people don't know, they don't understand, but your, you expect your team's non security based staff to be wholly connected to that process, whereby, even from the early stage of planning an event, to recognize where there may be some kind of risk, Elevated risk attached to it. So, yeah, they're tricky places.
Yoyo:There's a need to almost be chameleon like, isn't there? To change for every colour, for every shade, for every moment, for every sort of, sentiment. It's interesting that you have a wide range of guests and all guests are very, very special,
Darren:but
Yoyo:It's important, isn't it? That I mean, I've never felt unsafe. I'm going to be very honest with you. I've never felt unsafe. There's always been an acceptance as a guest that there is enough taking place to make me feel safe. And that's interesting, isn't it? The perception of the guest, I guess. The levels of acceptance on what is, the safeness, acceptability is going to be even greater, the more prestigious the hotel is, right?
Darren:There is, and this is where we come back to expectations, right? So, you know, as I, I can't recall what number stars we're at now, depending on where you are in the world, we're probably at 9, 10, 11 star hotels, whatever that means, I don't know. But, yeah, so look, you create your business, your environment, your spaces that attract the type of people that you want to attract. And the more you stack yourself up for criticism or for failure, then you've got a lot to live up to. and we relish the challenge, obviously, of, setting that environment and making people feel safe. Regardless of the outcomes, there are some things which are, we know in the world, which are completely unmanageable. Actually, they are unmanageable. You can have, um, you know, conditions in place, and knowledge, training, expertise, you know, arrangements in place that can minimize outcomes, but the actual event is to some extent, a large extent, not preventable. It can be preventable when you think about self reconnaissance, spotting, all these types of things. But at the end of the day, some things are inevitably unmanageable. But, um, but in order to create a space where people could feel safe, um, uh, it's largely down to those people, that they first come into contact with from your door staff through to your lobby, guest relations, reception staff. It's about confidence in their job, their ability. They're looking clean and sharp and smart, and they know the answers and they're constant problem solvers. So even tiny little complaints, tiny little failures in service, their ability, people's ability to be able to rapidly resolve, suggest different outcomes, alternatives, guide people, they are constantly problem solving throughout their day. and sometimes dealing with tricky people. So I know that in itself breeds an element of kind of assurance around professionalism. So whilst people don't naturally think about, you know, worst case scenarios, I guess they don't feel they need to, because it's only when you get into an environment where you're a bit concerned about, either the space, how it looks, how you present the place, is it managed, does it look clean? Are the people professional? It's only when you begin to suspect. they're not quite as good as you thought they would be is when your mind might lead to what ifs in a way so that's when the kind of sense of god am i safe here kind of thoughts might come into it so it is very much about and it's about what we talk about septet environmental design clean managed spaces you know as a deterrent to crime and that does Contribute towards, creating that ambience actually, because it does prevent crime when people look at, parts of your building loading bays and they see that it's managed, it's clean, it's maintained, there are people there, they look professional, then yeah, of course, people are going to go down the road, they are going to, so that all does, organically contribute towards a person's sense of feeling safe, it all does, there's so many components to it.
Yoyo:Let's talk about the media because working for such high profile brands, we've all seen them in the past, you know, the minute security officer steps out of line, maybe uses force, that can be a newspaper headline. And so training is critical, isn't it? For each member of the security team in terms of the acceptance of how to manage certain situations. Why is that important for your operations, Darren?
Darren:Yeah, it's usually important. And, where people have now got this are motivated by, you know, the public auditors. We've seen this already in some of our hotels in London, where, you know, some of those security staff have been, the focus of these guys attention. As well. So the public auditors that come around, effectively pushing people to snap and create, you know, click bait media and all the rest of it. But I mean, this whole professionalism piece, it's, well, it's hugely important no matter what we do, this industry, thrives on is so dependent upon its reputation. And I mean, all the sayings around, reputation is hard for easily lost and, you know, so much more difficult to regain. Fundamentally, our industry does absolutely rest on its reputation. First and foremost, now there are so many opportunities where you could lose that actually through. so that these guys in our industry, so our frontline teams, those that are in constant contact with celebrity, with important people, with sporting superstars, all this type of thing. The fact that none of this gets onto TikTok, into Facebook, into taking selfies up on the corridors, all this type of stuff is, something to be celebrated that we don't see it because they understand. the professionalism that's required to actually provide spaces for these people to feel they want to come there and know that they're going to be cared for in a way that actually they're not getting on to their friends saying oh so and so's turned up here what it because it just doesn't happen it has done in the past I can think of very few cases I think but and obviously when it comes to our world so you talk about, people's use of social media. So those in the public eye, that's their purpose in life, many of them. so we have some quite, interesting conversations sometimes around, don't quite do that post yet. Can you wait until you've actually left, right? And I remember actually, I recall I talked about it some years ago. So when we had, the Balon d'Or in London, which is kind of a gift to England for not hosting the World Cup. And we had the FIFA Legends in the building, one of our properties. It was an absolute wash of iconic sporting superstars. there were grown men crying that they'd just seen Cristiano Ronaldo around the outside of the building. I think it's probably the busiest I've seen these roads in Mayfair. But there was not one. Of, those individuals were, put out on any kind of social media posts and for three or four days we had, some really quite iconic people, around.
Yoyo:Is this now because celebrities are also getting good guidance around not only the risk they present to themselves when they give away their location, but also to the premises that they're in? Is everybody just getting better advice from their own PR and protection teams?
Darren:Yeah, I'd like to think so. we've all seen, instances whereby, you know, with the burglaries of, you know, prominent sporting, individuals and things like this. And I guess, Yeah, they do. I mean, some will still ignore it, obviously, but I guess, yeah, we are seeing or have seen, the fact that people do need to take care of themselves and the kind of live streaming, when you look at, personal safety and risk and what people are willing to do these days when we look at, some of our, ministers and you look at parliamentary security and this type of stuff, it's really quite, just putting yourself in a surgery,, people know where you are at a given time is never a good thing in that sense. But yeah, I do think it's probably just been a bit more mature around our own personal safety, I guess, when you're in the public eye.
Yoyo:Let's look at the types of organized crime that you have to consider in your risk assessment. where does organized crime come into play Darren for a luxury chain of hotels?
Darren:Well,, that's a broad subject when it comes to luxury hotels
Yoyo:actually.
Darren:Um, yeah, it is,.
Yoyo:It's, it's designed so that you can go anywhere you want with that. Yeah,
Darren:right. Yeah, I have to be, yeah. So I came to my current role for two years in 2005. I hit my 20th anniversary at the end of this month, actually. And my intention was to come here for two years and I was going to go off and do something else, different sector. but I think I have been, I love what I do here, in this industry because you touch pretty much every industry type. Every law enforcement body around the globe, both for good and bad reasons, you're literally contacted by everybody. You have the great and the good that stay here. You also have the most prolific, serious organized criminals that might choose to stay in the luxury hotel as well. So, um, from any direction, you've got, um, a, a level of contact with people that, um, makes. your role, so diverse, so interesting. You're working with so many different companies, different brands, different, well, every sector going and every level of government, royalty, I mean, it's end to end. But I think when you look at organised Crime. I mean, much like any other business, hospitality, is, at risk, it's data and that's one element that we are super conscious of. Again, coming down to reputation, the loss of data we've seen, you know, global. media around hospitality companies. Unfortunately, being a victim of, you know, mass data loss and this type of thing, and that's super important. So when you come to retaining reputation, retaining clients, business,, that's hugely important. So being targeted, but where organized crime, touches our business, as a third party kind of involver in, in this is, It is a constant presence, really, actually, in terms of those involved in it or, those investigating it. We have organized crime around us all the time. Just people, you know, begging on the streets of London. There's organized crime. There's organized crime in those that target our guests for their luggage, for their suitcases. That's organized crime, which, is a kind of pan northern Europe. there are established gangs of people that, that target hospitality companies, luxury hospitality, around that. And you've got organized crime around street robbery, which we work very closely with law enforcement on around, you know, that type of organized crime around, our, local areas. Yeah, so it touches us in a lot of ways, actually, in a lot of ways.
Yoyo:Let's now look at, your voluntary career, which has been really stunning. You're now the vice chair, aren't you, of the UK ASIS chapter, and that's been a journey in itself. When did you, take us back to when someone said to you, because I remember someone saying to me, you know, Oh, you want to join ASIS? I just remember thinking, really, money what's it going to deliver for me and I've always said this very publicly, my life changed when I joined ASIS. I don't mean this is sort of to be very self aggrandizing. It just, it really did. I was connected all of a sudden with people who I get to meet people like you, Darren. And cause we wouldn't have met, do you know what I mean? when someone suggested you join ASIS, it was and do you remember joining and how did your, how did things change for you? Yeah. Yeah.
Darren:Well, I do. I mean, I think I'll probably just go back a couple of steps. So I first, so 1999. I agreed to take over the Heathrow hotel watch from the police sergeant that was leaving. It was always looked after by police actually. And I had no clue what I was getting myself into actually. So I chaired that organization for a couple of years and actually at that point realized how dependable I was on others in order to understand more about my industry and stand more about life and I've never left it since. So since 1999, so 25 years, I've always had some capacity somewhere where, I'm involved in an organization, at a voluntary level. Never paid actually something I need to think about. so yeah, but it is, but it's, Yes, I remember it well. So, it was kind of a mixture of, the fabulous David Clark. yeah,
Yoyo:I forgot David there. Not, not, I mean, no one can forget David, but when you mentioned him, he brings back such a well of emotions, doesn't he?
Darren:Yeah. So he was working, closely with, our, security provider at the time, actually. Um, and we become friends back then, and it was actually Graham Bassett that took me off. I think I was kind of fed into Graham Bassett by David, maybe I don't recall. So, we're at Canary Wharf, so Graham Bassett and he talked to me about joining ASS, which I did. and yeah, I mean, literally, the fact that I work domestically within the UK, I don't have a. I've spent eight years traveling the world. I've got no desire to work outside of the UK, actually. I actually recall someone saying to me, that, that was, you know, on planes two, three times a week. He completely freaked out one day because he had no idea where he was flying to. He completely forgot where he was going. I'm not in for that kind of journey. So I've got no desire. So ASIS, I joined and, I think quickly within a Couple of years, joined what was then the ops board, the operations board, it was constructed in a slightly different way within the UK chapter. So from quite an early stage, I was kind of involved in the sort of the running of the organization, I guess the chapter. and, that, that really opened my eyes to, um, a whole new world of, just, well, you say knowledge, friendships, community. I mean, it's just huge. It's massive for my business, actually, I'm, it's a huge, asset to my day job, which is why my employer, thankfully, wholly supports my work that I do, in a voluntary sector, not just because of the, the whole giving back type thing, but it's actually beneficial., there are fruits to be, taken from this relationship, but yeah, so ASIS, for me, Working with, a team of people from really diverse parts of our industry as you sit on the kind of boards and management teams. Throughout, I guess, was eight years or so I've been sat within that kind of organizing team, if you like, those responsible for actually the doing. We've always had a real rich and diverse mix of people, pretty much all of them, I think. and wow, how much I've learned from these people. They are from very diverse day jobs, some in global roles, some business owners. and I've learned so much from these people, over the years and we'll never fail to. That's, that, that's what the journey is about. You never stop learning and taking lots from your giving into these things. It's a small price to pay, I think, for the stuff that you take out of it.
Yoyo:So am I talking to the future chair for chapter 208, London?
Darren:Well, it's a wholly democratic process, you know, I have no idea. Well, even, even
Yoyo:from my perspective, I'm sitting here thinking, well, it's quite normal process for vice chairs to move up to chair after, you know, the tenure of the chair moves on because I know that, eventually everybody does. And there's no doubt about it, you know, big kudos going out to Letitia for all of the work she's done. Do you have aspirations to take 208 by the reins?
Darren:I take far more out of that relationship that I put into it, I think, even despite the hours, it is. it can be quite all consuming sometimes. You asked me about the weekend. yeah, some of that was spent on that of course, but, that's no hardship. So look, I'm not going away from it. And, and if come the opportunity, that was supported by the membership, then absolutely I would support, I would. You know, give it a go, I guess. But yeah, I mean, Letitia, past chairs, the existing board. I mean, well, I mean, it's, you kind of miss it. I had a gap between 20, we had quite a busy year at work actually. 21 we were opening up a huge project on Leicester Square. And I knew my time would be, it had to be exclusively given over to my day job. And I kind of moved away from that, that role for a year. And I missed it. You're always thinking. Right. What decisions are they making? What are they discussing? What's going on? And you're just so I wasn't obsessed by it. Exactly. It is a hundred percent. I've been there. it was, you know, you do feel, better being part of it than not actually. In all the years I've been involved in that, yes, you can have some tricky moments, there's decisions, there's, there are things it's quite, you know, it is busy planning things, but, you know, I would much rather be part of it than. not actually, I get far more from it and as challenging as it might be, and it can be, I'm not putting future policies off the ratchets. I do generally get more from it than I ever, put into it. yeah, so should the opportunity come about, then yeah, we'll see. We'll see where we are,
Yoyo:I love it that you didn't completely sideswipe that question because it was deliberately meant to put you on the spot. I know as a chapter 208 member myself, I want to see a succession plan in place. I want to know, gosh, the day that Letitia does step down. Oh, bless. I don't want to see that. We want to feel comfortable that there's no scrabbling around who's going to do it, who's going to step into the shoes. It is comforting to a degree to know that there's a shoe in for a successional replacement, Darren. I don't know if you know this, but a lot of guests on the security circle podcast do go on to win awards. They go on to have great notoriety. This is certainly a, a bit of kudos for us, certainly in the sense that I believe I'm talking to the future chair. And all I can say is, thank you so much for your voluntary service. It is just giving,, it does take a lot of time. You were being very humble about the dedication and time and consistency you need to have in a voluntary career. It's more than a job. It's a family. Darren Carter, thank you so much for joining us on the Security Circle Podcast.
Darren:Thank you very much. Appreciate it.