EP 139 Hard Landings, Stronger Standings: Matt Hill’s Journey and Leadership Lessons from the Paras to Softer Landings in Security

“From the drop zone to the boardroom — Matt Hill reveals how hard landings and soldier grit forge stronger, smarter security leaders.”
  

BIO

Matt Hill is a former Parachute Regiment Officer, Farmer, Martial Artist, and teacher of Systema — the natural movement based Russian Martial art blending health and real work self defence skills. From the Systema Academy in Wiltshire he has taught thousands of students, blending martial arts with timeless health practices and practical skills for everyday life.

Beyond the Academy, Matt leads Jungle Expeditions around the Globe and international seminars, guiding groups through transformative experiences in some of the world’s most demanding environments. As a farmer he runs Montecello Farm with his family, where he integrates sustainable land management with a vision of creating a place of healing, growth, and community.

Matt is the author of three books on Systema with a fourth in progress. He tries to live fully, share generously, and help others discover strength, calm, and freedom in both body and spirit.

www.matthill.co.uk

matt@matthill.co.uk

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Security Circle ⭕️ is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers

Transcript

0:01

If you enjoy the security circle podcast, please like share and comment or even better. Leave us a fab review. We can be found on all podcast platforms. Be sure to subscribe. The security circle every Thursday. We love Thursdays. Hi, I'm Yolanda And welcome to the Security Circle Podcast, produced in association with ifpo, the International Foundation for Protection Officers. This podcast is all about connection, bringing you closer to the greatest minds, boldest thinkers, trailblazers, and change makers across the security industry. Whether you are here to grow your network, spark new ideas, or simply feel more connected to the world of protection and risk, you are in the right place wherever you are listening from. Thank you for being a part of the Security Circle journey..

Yoyo: 1:13

Well, I have a very special guest. Everybody is special. And a very experienced, uh, uh, young man, still young man, uh, joining us on the podcast today. We're going to start off by talking about his, uh, career starting out in the parachute regiment. I'd like to welcome to the Security Circle podcast, Matt Hill. How are you doing?

Matt: 1:34

I'm good. Thanks, Yolanda. Pleasure to be here. Thank you.

Yoyo: 1:37

It's a pleasure to have you here. Um, I have to tell you. going straight in. I'm going through a phase at the moment of watching old Black and White movies. I think they're quite nice. And it's, it's, I find it fascinating as well, watching all of the old Black and White propaganda, uh, war, World War Two stories. And I think I'm quite fascinated about how different those times were and a lot of it is transcendent. It comes through. I've just finished watching a movie with, um, bless him. The Right Honorable, I have to check this because I always get them both confused because they're both amazing men. The Right Honorable, um, Richard Attenborough, when he was a very, very young man, he's almost unrecognizable. The movie's called Journey Together and it is a propaganda movie. And it was designed to raise awareness of what the RAF do, and in particular, what the RAF pilots do, and most importantly, the role of the navigator, which was very much overlooked. So for those of you that don't know, this is what's so great about this movie. You learn that the navigator is using a number of very crude pieces of equipment to tell the location, the weather, to be able to give the pilot directions without that navigator. If that navigator gets shot in battle, the pilot can literally not find their way back to, their landing strip. A really critical role. And the story was about Richard Attenborough's character really wanting to be a pilot. But he had this, what was quite funny, he had this kind of condition where he couldn't tell the difference between heights and so he couldn't land the plane, which is rather bizarre. And so he went into this navigator role and it was phenomenal. I think there are a lot of us coming to you, Matt, who don't really fully understand what the paras do. And I think there'll be lots of people that do and lots that don't. Give us an idea about the kind of idealism you had. When you joined our British military and you wanted to go explore a career in the army, what's going through your mind?

Matt: 3:49

Good question. I,, just as an aside, I love those old black and white films as well. And I used to watch them with my dad and, and I watched one a couple of years ago. And the thing that really struck me was there were, they were doing the selection phase of being drafted into a new unit. And part of it involved some, uh, swimming and there was some work in the swimming pool. And they were all lined up in their kind of bathers on the side of the pool. And it was just stark how different the body shape was then to now, you know, in the space of 50, 60 years. You know, and I guess nutrition and food had had the biggest part to do with it, I guess, the change in diet. But if ever you want an advert for what they ate then and what we eat now in terms of body shape, that was it. You know, these guys were all And they were all actors, maybe some of them had been soldiers and then got into acting like, you know, the David Niven types, but they were all lean, muscular, um, very, very different body shapes. It was just a stark, thing. So the question, yeah, I didn't come from a military background. Both my granddads served during the war. And so many grandads, they didn't talk about it too much. One of them did a little bit more, but he was more like the home guard. Um, rather than, um, overseas, but my other granddad served in Egypt, um, so he's with the desert rats and, um, uh, yeah. And then I had another uncle who joined the intelligence services. Um, so actually I say I'm not from a military family. A few of them did, but it wasn't anything I'd ever entertained or held an ambition for. And it was actually, like so many things, it was a conversation. So I, when I was 19, I finished my levels. I was going to go to university and I deferred my entry for a year and a friend and I went to Canada for three months and we hitchhiked across Canada and back. And then I had about nine months before my course was starting and I, I wanted to go somewhere and do something for that nine months and, um, and I was doing martial arts at the time. I was really into Aikido and, uh, and. To cut a long story short, I, someone gave me the opportunity to go to Japan, and this was in the early 1990s, like 1991, I think, and, um, so there was no internet. I couldn't, like, get on a browser, but it was just my conversation with him, and he, he said he would give me, so I attended a course that he delivered. And he knew my Aikido teacher in the UK and he said, look, you need a letter of introduction to go, like a handwritten letter of introduction to go there. So you could only, you couldn't just turn up, you could only get there from someone who'd been before and would personally recommend you and give, put their name on the line as a sponsor for you to go, like a recommendation. And, um, so I thought, wow, what an amazing experience. And, and so I went there and there was a, I was there for about 18 months. And it was a very traditional. almost like a basic training camp. So in a way it was like joining the army before I joined the army. Um, and it actually made my time in the army, certainly in basic training much easier because I, I'd seen that process of, of what you go through. And so I was there for 18 months and then I came back to the UK for a little bit and I was, I was lost. Um, I didn't know I'd always thought I wanted to be a martial arts teacher, and then I came back to the UK and I realized just how different the experience was of teaching it here, as opposed to living it as a lifestyle out there, like, fully immersed. And, you know, the dojo there was, it was a farm, and there was a temple in the woods, and you cleaned the dojo during the day, and you worked on the farm, and then you trained with the teacher, and it was a proper kind of, almost a bit monastic, and like a, um, Like maybe an, you know, an old apprenticeship to a man at arms would have been. And, um, and I loved it, but I knew I couldn't do it forever. And so I came back and started to teach and realized it wasn't for me. Or at that stage of life, it wasn't for me to set up a full time thing, you know, in the UK. Um, I just didn't have any of the skills that you'd need for that in terms of people skills. Or, um, you know, I was, I was good at martial arts and I could, you know. I could stand there and deliver that, but I had no business skills, no people skills. And so I really struggled. And so I went back out for six months just to figure out whether I was gonna just try and find a way to live in Japan permanently and stay at the dojo or to come back to university or to really come back and make a good teaching or something completely different. And I was about five months and two weeks into that stint and I still hadn't figured out what I was going to do. And, I had lots of conversations with lots of people and gone down the road of different things and nothing had really caught me. And then this guy turned up, from Australia and it was my job then. I spoke Japanese as well, so I was the senior or the longest serving person there. So when new people came in, I showed them the ropes and where to put their stuff. And, you know, I took them across to meet Sensei and he traditionally presented with a gift. And then we were walking back down this lovely little path and I said to him, I said, you're from Australia. He said, yeah. I said, but you've got a bit of a British accent. And he said, yeah, I lived in the UK for eight years. And I said, oh, whereabouts? And he said Aldershot. I said, ah, home of the Paras. I didn't really know anything about the army where they were based, but I'd seen that program in the eighties called the Paras, really famous one now where they. They followed a load of recruits through basic training and pea company and the jumps and things like that. And he said, yeah, that's right. Home of the British Army. and it didn't go any further then, but we got on well. And after training, a couple of nights later, we were sat outside having a glass of water. And I said to him, so you're in the paras. And he said, yeah, he said, I spent five years in the paras and three years in the SAS. And as soon as he said it, I thought, yeah, that's what I'm going to do. And it was very odd because it was like an immediate, like a body confirmation reaction, maybe, you know, you get a couple of those moments in your life that are just, you look back and they're still strange. And it was strange at the time, but it was like, yeah, that's it. And I'd gone down. Certainly for the six months I've been out there, but for, you know, the two years before that I've been, it had been percolating that this isn't quite what I want, and I don't know what I'm going to do. And then, for that two weeks, I just, he recognized a kindred spirit, I think, and he, gave me all of the prep. We went through what would be, you know, the route to, and I had no idea about the difference between an officer and a soldier. And, uh, initially the soldier route sounded great to me because, you know, you get to do so much more in terms of adventure training, different courses and things. And, um, he said, you know, no, if you, if you've got the. Uh, qualifications, which I did at DNA levels. So, like, I like, I had them, but barely. Um, he said, you know, you, you should try and go for it if you can. And so, he gave me the, the route to, to make the first phone call, told me who to call and make the first phone call, and then, you know, you do a, a two day stint with, you first go to an army careers office, speak to an army careers officer, um, and if they think, okay, yeah, you, you, you tick all the right boxes and, and you come across okay, then they'll put you forward for a two day insight course with the parachute regiment, which was physically horrendous. Um, and, and, and they really tested you, you know, through how you come across the interview, what your general knowledge is like, what your current affairs are like, how you cope standing up and having things thrown at you, um, you know, problem solving, planning, and then all of the, like, the physical tasks and, um, I came home absolutely beaten, but, but I did enough for them to say, okay, we'll sponsor you to Sandhurst, and then we'll see how you get on from there as to whether we'll take you into the factory regimen. Um, so I did that and then if you do that, then you can go to the RCB, which is the regular commissions board. And then you, you do another one of those two day assessments and then a three day assessment. And then if you pass those, then you, you can go to SandList. And then, so that was my routine, really. It was just a conversation with someone and just an immediate click and just like I knew straight away and then that was it. And then the more I spoke to him about what that life would entail. I just thought that's exactly me, you know, that's, that's what it's meant to be.

Yoyo: 13:03

So why is the Parachute Regiment one of those parts of our combined military services that has always been really cool? What is the coolness to it? What's that about?

Matt: 13:16

Uh, it was hard to get in two for one, you, you can't just walk into it. So there's, there's a couple of units in the British Army that you can't, the whole army has a basic, called the barbed test, I think it, it was that when I was in where you have to. pass to a certain standard, you know, uh, some questions and tests, but it's generally somewhere for everyone in the army. Um, and then depending on how bright you are, they'll kind of steer you in a certain direction. For example, my uncle was really bright, um, but way brighter than I, even when he was at school. My nan always tells me, when in maths, when they were doing the lessons, the teacher would do a problem on the board, and you'd turn around and say, Is that right Peter? And Peter would say, Yeah, yeah, that's right. So he did his barb test, and he'd like, finished in ten minutes, and the guys came round and said, um, He was a really good runner, cross country runner, and the guys came round and said, You sure you finished? And he said, Yeah, I think so. And they looked at his paper and said, Okay. And when he did the interview afterwards, they said, what do you want to do? He said, I'd really like to be a truck driver. And they said, no, you're not going to be a truck driver. There's a couple of avenues and probably you're going to go into the intelligence services. So he did. And then the whole family had to sign the Official Secrets Act. Well, his parents and siblings. But, um, anything that he mistakenly let release at home, he couldn't talk about because he was involved in, it was a long time ago now, and he's passed away. So I can probably say he was involved in the design of the Exocet missile and testing and things. So, yeah, he was like, off the scale, right? Um, so, but the Parachute Regiment and the Royal Marines are the two that have, aside from the SBS, they have a selection process that you have to pass on top of those basic ones. So, that kind of sets them apart a little bit. Um, but also they're, contrary to popular belief, their educational requirements are a bit higher too. So, like for the paras for sure, because they operate in much smaller groups and often when you enter into theatre you're jumping out of a plane. Um, there's the chance that they'll get separated, so they have to have the wherewithal to be able to, even like as newly qualified soldiers, they have to be able to, um, understand where they are, know where they've got to be, navigate to that point. So there's um, there's a slightly higher educational requirement on it. And then they get to do the, the kind of sexy jobs, if you like, so they're what they call the tip of the sphere. So if something happens, they'll often go in first, secure the area, ready for everyone else to come through. And often to secure an area is, you know, it's, you're dropping in so hot DZ, which means that there's People there already, fire there already, so like often maybe the SAS or Pathfinders would go in first, and just scout an area, find the best sort of place, but the enemy kind of know roughly where those areas are, and they'll be monitoring them, so, when you go in with any kind of size of force that can secure and stabilize an area, for everyone else to come through then. Yeah, the Parachute Regiment are going to do those jobs.

Yoyo: 16:35

So for those of us in the, I don't know what the paras do, box, it's more than jumping out of the plane.

Matt: 16:43

Yeah, they need to jump out and the reason they have, one of the reasons they have the selection test is they've got to jump out with enough kit to be able to, support themselves without any resupply, anytime soon. So the kit is heavy, you know, ammunition weighs a lot, food weighs a lot. and kit these days weighs a lot, so they've got to jump out with a lot of kit and move fast over,, medium to long distances. There's one of the tests, the parachute regiment is the 10 miler, and during the Second World War, for sure, that was about the average sort of distance where you'd have to jump in and then move to a particular area that you've got to hold or take. And you have to do that really fast. And so that, you know, one of the tests, the classic test is the 10 miner, one of the benchmark tests really.

Yoyo: 17:31

And that's carrying weight as well, isn't it? How much is that that you have to carry in training?

Matt: 17:37

So, and for the test, you have to, you have 35, your helmet, your weapon. And you have to do 10 miles in, I think it's an hour 40, I think it's another, with all that kit. So it's a fair pace, you're between running and really fast walking and you alternate between, it's crucifying. Over time you get used to it, but in the beginning it's like you're running and you're thinking, please stop, please, you know, everything in your body is screaming, please stop running. And then you stop running and you start walking with a really long stride. And then all your muscles are screaming at you to say, please start running, please. So you just alternate between those two. Kind of hells, if you like, of running or a really long stride, fast walking.

Yoyo: 18:21

And then is your brain thinking, I now know why they get us to do this in training because you can see how it's a matter of a survival or not in, in real, in a real situation.

Matt: 18:34

At the time you're just trying to get through it, but, but even then, like they're better and better now at explaining the purpose behind these things and, why you've got to be fit. And I think, you know, most of the guys going through it know that. but certainly then, like, for example, I went back a couple years later as an instructor, which is the common career path for an officer in the army. it was amazing, you know, when you go back and you do it and I, you know, I was doing it, I was probably doing 120 miles a week, you know, training recruits to go through it and you carry the same kit, but because you haven't got the pressure of being assessed and selected. Just how different the experience is and it was like an enjoyable 10 miles, you know Very different not having that stress and pressure on you It's a very different experience. Enjoyable

Yoyo: 19:19

seems to be stretching it a bit though. On a good day, when

Matt: 19:25

the sun was shining, it was good.

Yoyo: 19:28

So whenever you went on Ops, was there a certain terrain that was your favourite? I. e., I know that we're going to talk a little bit about Jungle, but was it a case of, oh, that's my favourite, yay! Or is it like, oh, desert, no, my least favourite. Or literally does that never cross your mind? Did you have any favourite kind of environments to get dropped into?

Matt: 19:50

Good question. Well, you learned to, excuse me for saying it and I don't now, but you learned to hate, the British countryside because it just was just cold, wet, pain and suffering. Um, I mean, it's an amazing training ground because it prepares you for almost anything else. You know, yeah, Northern Ireland was very similar. It was often wet, boggy, cold. Um, my favorite without a doubt was the jungle. I loved it. Some guys just absolutely hated it and just couldn't get on with it. And for good reasons, you know, like some guys just unfortunately suffered with a thing called prickly heat, which is where you start itching and you can, they guys would literally scratch themselves raw. Trying to get rid of it and just like it's a condition where your sweat and dirt gets in through your paws and into the skin and causes rashes and, you know, can get to quite bad infections. But even mild, it can just drive you crazy. and you get sores because, you're always wet from the humidity and sweating, or moving through rivers or the rain, so you know, you can develop soils on your body. but I loved it from the moment I got in there. I can remember being in there for a couple of days and then we went on a usually stationed in a camp just outside and then you go in and do some training and you go in and do, longer patrols. And I was on a patrol. I've been for about two days, quite a small team. We were walking kind of down this river and then we came in a corner and everything just opened in the jungle. Everything's quite close in, in a lot of places. And then we came in the corner and everything just opened up and I could see like down this river and, there was a little small waterfall, nothing dangerous, but just the water's flowing down over rocks and there was some pools and the sunlight was coming through and I could just see these trees in the distance. This just went on forever and vines hanging and smoke going up and you could hear bird calls. I just thought, wow, this is, and I'd always, I'll embarrass myself now, I'd always loved Tarzan when I was a kid and, you know, try to pretend to be him and, you know, running around my woods in a pair of pants. And, I just thought, this is just like I imagined it would be. and I loved it. You know, I love the temperature, I love the environment, I love the challenges of it. And the jungle, really specifically, which is why the SAS do their selection there, or phase two of their selection, really what they really term as their selection is the jungle phase. Because it just demands so much of you in terms of your basic soldiering skills. Everything's harder there. You know, fitness is harder, navigation is harder, personal admin is harder, you know, staying on top of your kit and yourself, command and control is harder, like everything is more challenging. It just If you can keep hold of yourself there and your skills, you can do it pretty much anywhere. But yeah, I loved it. I just, everything about it, the heat and everything was just so much, more at home for me.

Yoyo: 23:07

Sounds like the best of times, the worst of times, all in one.

Matt: 23:11

Yeah. That's not to say I didn't find things challenging. I did, for sure. but if you feel at home somewhere, things are easier. I think if you're fighting. the environment and you're trying to deal with the challenges of operations or training or courses and things, then yeah, it's so much harder.

Yoyo: 23:31

It's interesting, actually, that you say that because I should imagine that the way that you support each other is as critical as knowing your own weaknesses and your own vulnerabilities and the things that you find harder. How does that work within a team environment? Because I'm sure that becomes very critical to what you talk about these days. You know, when you're talking about corporate team working environments, what did you learn back then about how you literally have to work together? Yeah.

Matt: 24:04

The, the first thing they're looking at is whether you can look after yourself. So if you can't look after yourself, you forget being a good team player or, you know, look after anyone else. And even more so if people having to look after you just on your basic admin and keeping yourself together, then, then you are detracted from the team. So the first thing really is, you know, can you function? Can you, keep your feet in good order and you keep your kids in good order? Can you keep up with the rest of the team? Um, and, and can you just, you know, be at a level where, you're not taking away from the team? Um, and, and then when you can do that, can you then be more than just a bit more than just that cog in the team? Can you, you know, help other people? Um, and or is there a selfish nature to you that I'm right. I'm just going to conserve my energy and keep myself in good order. So yeah, it's a really good place to see that. And, you know, you've, you've got to find that balance between knowing what you need to do to be able to look after yourself and like, conserve yourself a little bit, but also be able to step in and help out and be a good team player for others. And it's, it's understanding that balance between, Yeah, looking after yourself and then being a, being a good teammate. Because in the army there's never, never say never, never say always, but you're hardly ever as a single person. There's always, the lowest denominator is a two in the army, so you've always got that buddy pair. And, and especially in the jungle, you know, you, that buddy pair should always know where the other guy is. So even if he just says, look, I'm just hopping down that side of the hill for a pee or whatever. Then he lets you know what he's doing, where he's going, when he's going to be back, so that if he's gone for longer than a couple of minutes, you know, and that may mean he's fallen, that may mean he's been bitten by something, that may mean someone's grabbed him and taken him off, uh, you know, and you know to do something quite quick.

Yoyo: 26:12

And I guess even in corporate environments, When you're a team, it's always easy, isn't it? To know and identify who the weakest link is. And I say the weakest link very candidly. We always know the people that are givers and the people that are takers. And, and just listening to you talking about that, uh, was, was making me kind of resonate within, you know, the kind of teams that I've been in, in my career. Was there a time where you thought, I'm never going to get out of this hellhole, and we're never going to get picked up at our rendezvous point, and I'm never going to get out of this alive, or more than once?

Matt: 26:54

No, I, quite often in Northern Ireland, on operations, you'd, because we, I was in a, what they call the Rulemont Battalion, you do stints in the QRF, which is the quick reaction force, so, We'd, um, come in and stay by a, helicopter pad in a, and so a small team of eight of you, eight or ten of you would be next to the helicopter pad in a small porter cabin. And, you'd be there just in case something kicks off anywhere in the province or in a region. And then if it did, the phone would go, pick it up, run up to the ops room, get a brief about what was happening. And then the helicopter would come in, pick you up and take you off to help to deal with whatever was happening. Whether it was an illegal vehicle checkpoint, an IBCP, or, you know, a disorder problem. And, and and, so I was in, the, the battalion that would often go out and do patrols, and they'd do, be helicopter patrols. So, you'd sit down, you'd plan a route, and, and some things you're gonna check, and a helicopter would come in, pick you up, and then drop you somewhere. And then you'd walk a little bit through the countryside, check a few culverts that were, like, known to patrols. potentially be weapons caches and things. Then you'd maybe walk through a town and just be a visible presence. You know, you'd have the names of a few people to look out for to see if they were out and about. But it was really, I mean, you'd walk down some roads and then you'd go into a field again, helicopter would pick you up, take you to a different place and then you'd walk. So just so that, the players would never know where was a safe route because they never knew at what time the army would be dropped in to just walk an area. But it was always, helicopter journeys would be fine all day, and then just when you're about to be picked up to be taken back at the end of the patrol, the rain would come in, and the helicopters couldn't fly, so you'd have to walk back. there were, they were more funny times than, dangerous times. And in, in the jungle, you don't really get helicopter pickups. So, in emergency evacuations you would, but you might have to cut a winch hole, because it's all trees and a helicopter can't land, generally. you'd have to cut an area like a hole in the canopy and then, it would drop a winch down and pick someone up in an emergency. But also, helicopters would give your position away in jungle work, But no, I never really, thankfully, I never had a, I never had a time when I thought, I'm never gonna get out.

Yoyo: 29:18

That's really good, to be honest with you, considering, the kind of role you've been in. I learned about the Quick Reaction Force when I was watching Lioness, and, I would urge, I, I think it's such a great show, and I know it's very American, it's very American, but, I, there's this particular group of very older, um, you know, top, top guys, that go into, zones where they need some, I don't know what they call it. They, there's an American term for them. They go in and provide all of the gunpower and they get mocked because of their age. And then after going into a QRF with, The team, uh, they were the ones that came out alive and they were like, there's a reason why you trust, an older. military person because they know how to stay alive. Now I'm not selling that really well, but there's such a strong message in that. But yeah, I've heard

Matt: 30:11

good things about it. I should watch it actually.

Yoyo: 30:14

Look, Zoe Zaldana is great in whatever she's in. She's an incredibly versatile actress, but it's also got a very cold. Brigiddy, you know, Nicole Kidman, who is basically playing a very senior person in the FBI and SCIA in the clandestine department, or isn't all of it. Um, and then there's another actor in there who's really, really good. And I think he played alongside Kevin Spacey in, House of Cards. He was his advisor, very good actor. So it's got a really good cast and every episode, they end up leaping into something and then it's quite intelligent as well. So it satisfies the intelligent brain that doesn't just want to see guns and fighting. There's a real backstory. It's about the lioness program and what they do is they, they basically mold women to go in and get very close to the daughters of hits of marks that they, they want. And it's just so, so clever. And you know yes, it's a drama and it doesn't always happen like that in real life. I know. I only had a chat to Gavin Stone to remind me of that., and that not all British spies are like James Bond. We talked about that. Gavin is our very own James Bond. How did you meet Gavin?

Matt: 31:33

he doesn't live that far from me. He only lives,, about an hour and a bit. and he got, he got in touch and just said, um, you know, we'd be up for a quick chat over zoom. I think he must've been looking for, the system or I guess, and came across me and then we had a chat, got on really well. and then I did a podcast with him and then, that's the link to your good self. So he said, yeah, you've got to meet Yolanda, which is great and got an amazing podcast and really good.

Yoyo: 32:00

Yeah, he's, recorded a second episode with us, literally focusing on corporate espionage. It's not the sort of subject, there's not loads of people around, you know, talking about corporate espionage. And I think there's a huge thirst for that. So your career in the power is going really well. What happened then? What happened after that?

Matt: 32:19

Yeah. I don't know if I'd say really well, but I had a, an amazing time. Stayed

Yoyo: 32:25

alive. Stayed

Matt: 32:26

alive. I loved it. But then you, you kind of, the army banks on a huge number of people leaving at around captain level. So I got to captain. Well done. Uh, thank you. Well, it's kind of you on a treadmill really, unless you're really bad, you're going to get there. but I got there early actually, and cause I was a non grad. So if you're a graduate, you kind of a captain in about three years. If you're non grad, it could be about five years. but I got them in three years, but some of it was luck. You just, I was, I had good enough reports and then they wanted me to go and do a job, that required me to be a captain. So I was lucky. and at that point you start to, you move away from kind of, I guess, the jobs that you sign up to do, which is. Being out on operations and tours and things, with the guys and,, a small group of platoon. And then, you know, you're out getting dirty and, crawling around and doing those things. And you start to do it. Captain, you do another course, which is, um, you know, test your intellect a little bit more. And then you go, you generally go and do two or three years of desk jobs, to expose you more to that side of. the officer career ladder and those sort of jobs. And

Yoyo: 33:38

what's that like after jumping out of planes for a career? I mean, that's got to be hell, right?

Matt: 33:44

Some people, do it because you've got to do it. Some people actually find that they've got a good predisposition for it. You know, they're kind of very good at that. And some people just hate it. So that, that's not my natural inclination, like office jobs and desk jobs. I kind of half thinking about, maybe leaving and doing something else at that stage so that I've done six years by then. For me, I can remember having a conversation early on with my platoon sergeant and he'd said, you know, just get to know him and his family and things. And he said, yeah, he said, I've got four children. I said, oh, what are their ages? And he said, I can't remember exactly, you know, from 16 down. And I remember him saying he'd only been there for one birthday out of all those four children's birthdays. And I thought, I didn't have a, didn't even have a girlfriend at the time, I don't think. And I remember thinking, eh, that's probably not the life for me. But it was nothing more than a whimsical passing thought. And then, you know, by this time I had met someone and I thought, Yeah, that's probably not the life I want, you know, to be married and in the army. but you know, it was no, no huge loss to the army. They bank on losing people at that stage. And so I, um, uh, so I made the decision to leave, uh, at, uh, so that was in 2003. I was just going up to 30.

Yoyo: 35:06

And had you made a plan? Did you know what you were going to do? And what was the transition like?

Matt: 35:13

It was a good transition. So that was part of that job of moving to Captain, so they asked me to go down to A place called Litchfield, which is no longer, an army camp anymore. because at that time, the Paris training, phase one was at Litchfield and phase two was at Cataract. so phase two was, phase one was the course that all infantry soldiers do, or all soldiers do. which is, you know, basically, aggressive camping and kind of teaches you, you know, how to dress yourself, how to iron your clothes, how to shower. What's,

Yoyo: 35:42

what's aggressive camping?

Matt: 35:48

Just like how to go out and keep yourself dry, set up a tarp and, you know, pack what kit you need and how to use the kit, what it is, how to cam yourself up. So, and you know, how to hide and things like that. So yeah, there was a transition between moving it from, uh, from a separate phase one and phase two, to all combined up in Cataract, um, and all of the infantry did it, but, you know, the pirates, so I helped that transition of combining the two courses together and moving to Cataract, um, as a company to IC, and, and then, when I was about to leave, and that, that gave me a bit of time to sort out what I was going to do in the future, not that I really did get it sorted, So then they asked me if I would do an extra year because I was doing a few other things there and I said, yeah, actually, I was quite happy to because it was, it was comfortable. And it was interesting. And it also gave me time to establish what I would do next. And then, at that time, a company had got a contract, a civilian company run by ex military personnel to deliver qualifications to all phase one recruits going through training. So what they did was they mapped, and it was government funded, so they mapped the skills they learned in security to a basic security, a level two NVQ in security. They were looking for someone to run that contract at Litchfield, and it was basically what I'd just been doing. So I did the interview and it was a good fit for them and for me. And so it was funny at Christmas time, I, we went, you know, The best time to attack Britain is at Christmas time because the whole army goes on me and I had two weeks off and I left through the back gate at that time me and my now wife, Sarah, I had some army accommodation on the patch as they called it. And I left through the back gate in my green uniform. And then I came back two weeks later after Christmas in a suit to run this contract. But apart from that, my life didn't change hardly at all. I still used to go running and do phys with the, you know, the guys that were there. And I would still go in the mess, and have tea and toast at ten, ten and four. and I'd still meet with the CEO regularly and VAs on the train where the recruits were going. And that sort of thing, I still helped them out with charity events. So it was as soft a landing as you can possibly get. The company was run by ex military personnel who were brilliant and, I had a really soft landing, as you might say.

Yoyo: 38:17

Home from home.

Matt: 38:18

Home from home. Yeah. So it was great. And then, yeah.

Yoyo: 38:23

Since then, you've held a number of senior executive roles, haven't you, within FTSE 100 companies. how difficult has it been to transform into sort of corporate life? Because it is very different. I know it's very different for those who have sort of migrated from policing into corporate life. Corporate life has its own jungle. Doesn't it, Matt? It

Matt: 38:48

does. If I'm honest, I didn't find it that difficult. I mean, I was in that job. I was quite lucky because most of my liaison was with military personnel recruits, training instructors. but it was, but there was enough of understanding, finance and money is quite a big thing. I know it's different now, you know, senior officers do have to contend with budgets and I guess senior police officers too much more than they ever did. but up to my level in the army, then I hadn't really had to think about budgets at all,, they might say, no, you can't have that if I was planning a training exercise or whatever, but, I haven't encountered that. And so the finance side for sure. Um, I, I was 24 when I joined the army. So. Um, I'd had a fair bit of exposure to working and it's not like I joined at 16 and done anything else, you know, so I kind of lived in the world a little bit. Um, so I'd like to think I could have had a little bit of diplomacy, um, in terms of how to deal with people and. And, you know, especially the army, people kind of think that it's all about just shouting until you get the result you want, but of course it's not like that at all, you know, it is a lot of understanding and, you know, good use of communication and, you know, of course, knowing when to be sharp and, and, and know when to, to, to listen and to understand. So, um, yeah, I always found it quite a, quite a, quite an easy transition really. I, um, It's my nature to, I'm generally quite calm anyway. And

Yoyo: 40:23

I also think your background in, martial arts, having met other people with the same. I can't help but think this is a critical founding kind of tool that gives you a really good start, because let's face it, for many, transition outside of the military is not an easy thing. Have you kind of identified a tool with why some people find it so hard?

Matt: 40:52

Yeah, I think there's a, before I say that, the point on martial arts I think is quite interesting, because I always say to people, Probably your first line of self defense, apart from how you carry yourself, whether you're a man or a woman, if you can walk cleanly and neutrally, you know, straight, you're not going to, A, you don't attract attention so much, but B, there's nothing about you that draws attack, you know, someone who's a bit cocky as they walk down the road, people will notice them and people want to kind of challenge that or take them down a peg and also people that walk a little bit too introverted, will draw attention for the wrong reasons. It's like easy prey. So, you know, to walk confidently, cleanly with, you know, some purpose helps, but also I think the first line of self defense is good manners and respect because you never know who you're dealing with. I always just chuckle sometimes that people who shout and scream at someone in the car, they've got no idea who that person is, what they've been through, you know, what they might do. it always just astounds me that the lack of. good manners and respect. And if you got good manners, I think generally you're going to be okay. So I think my martial arts teaches you that to be respectful and have good manners. so I think, that's an important thing. The question as to why people struggle coming out. I think, there's such a thing as being institutionalized. I think there's a comfort from, from, from, from knowing your environment and your surroundings. and especially in the army, you are taken care of. Probably to a larger extent than you would be anywhere else. so many things are taken care of for you. You can't really fall, the army won't let you fall too far because you need to be ready to go on operations at any moment. So, whether you've got big financial problems, legal problems, social lifestyle problems, the army will look after you and keep you functioning and keep you okay. So when people come out of that. Um, they haven't got that anymore and where they've been used to leaning back into that, whether it's a collective group of mates, your platoon sergeant, just keeping you in line or, the army helping you out in certain areas. You, you do have further to fall and also the army again, I'm 20 years out now, and maybe it's changed, but the army didn't really have overt ways of helping to cope with. trauma, pressure, the stress that you're under. But it did have, I guess, timeless built in ways, you know, the culture of having mates around you, always someone to talk to, the easing of the pressure in terms of the drinking culture, the, when you come back from operations, you have a bit of leave, you have some R& R probably, where you can decompress. There, there was lots of fitness, there was lots of inbuilt decompression. in the army that you don't have, and structure, you know, and structure is a huge thing in terms of, um, keeping, uh, keeping you on track, a definite time that you get up, a structure to your day, a purpose to what you do, you know, meaning. So lots of that was built in a way that it's not when you go into civilian life.

Yoyo: 44:15

Do you still meet up with your buddies that you, were in hot zones with and talk about the old days?

Matt: 44:22

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, especially, yeah, sadly now a lot of times at funerals and things, but more of senior officers that were, or senior soldiers that were, you know, above me that had influence on my life. And, you go to pay your respects at those and then you see a lot of your friends that were there. WhatsApp, Facebook are great for that, aren't they? Stay in touch with people. And so I've still got, you know, WhatsApp groups that I'm a member of. And kind of, we meet up generally once a year or so. and it's great.

Yoyo: 44:55

Anything that you would have done differently, Matt? Thinking?

Matt: 45:07

Yeah, I don't think so. I think, I'm of the, I'm pretty happy with where I am now. And I kind of, I'm of the paradigm that,, if you did something differently, who knows where that might have led you, you know, a lot of things can change big things over time. So, yeah, yeah, I generally try not to reflect on it anyway.

Yoyo: 45:28

That question is always about understanding how consent somebody is in the moment. That's all that question is about, because if you are happy in the moment, what you're doing, you don't have any regrets about it. You know, you don't say, oh, do you know what, there have been a couple of days where I thought in my early career, yeah, I should have stayed home that day and said I was sick. Because that, you know, that didn't go down too well, but you can't do that, can you, when you're when you're in the military. How about you, would

Matt: 45:55

you answer that question the same

Yoyo: 45:57

way? Say again.

Matt: 45:58

How about you? Would you answer that question the same way?

Yoyo: 46:01

Oh, again, it's a really hard question. I am really happy with life right now. Happy with where I am, happy with what I'm doing. Yeah, I think there are some things I could have done differently and should have done differently, but where would I be now? Would I be doing this? Would I be chatting to you? Do you know what I mean? Would I be enjoying what I do now? but I think like you, I've always had to have purpose in my life. I've always had to have it. And I think that is a secret to good mental health. I think having some good hobbies that take your mind off things and loving what you're doing is all about having really good mental health.

Matt: 46:42

Yeah. agreed

Yoyo: 46:44

Matt Hill. What can I say? Thank you for, you know, just giving those of us as well that don't really know about what, what the parachute regiment do. Thank you so much for just giving us a short window into having a look at your life and career. And thank you for joining us on the Security Circle podcast.

Matt: 47:02

It was a joy. I just looked at the time. I can't believe how much time has gone by, but I really enjoyed it. It's great to, great to chat. Thank you. Awesome.