The Security Circle
An IFPOD production for IFPO the very first security podcast called Security Circle. IFPO is the International Foundation for Protection Officers, and is an international security membership body that supports front line security professionals with learning and development, mental Health and wellbeing initiatives.
The Security Circle
EP 152 90,000 Heartbeats, One Security Chief: Wembley Stadium- Behind the Scenes, with Steve McGrath
In this powerful and engaging episode, YoYo sits down with Steve McGrath, the Head of Security at Wembley Stadium, to explore what it really takes to protect one of the world’s most iconic venues. With a background in counter terrorism policing and years of operational leadership, Steve shares an inside look into managing security for events that bring in up to 120,000 people at a time across Wembley and the surrounding estate.
Steve explains how security has evolved far beyond protecting the stadium itself. Working with transport hubs, local businesses, residents, police, and Wembley Park stakeholders, he highlights the need for a holistic, layered security approach that begins long before visitors reach the turnstiles. From behavioural detection teams on Olympic Way to the surprising role passive detection dogs now play in identifying pyrotechnics and smoke devices, Steve reveals the human and technical innovations behind crowd protection.
The conversation also dives into his counter terrorism experience during landmark events such as the Manchester Arena attack and Salisbury poisoning inquiry, and how those lessons continue to influence stadium security today. Steve reflects on the changing nature of risk, from extremist threats to everyday momentum attacks, and the increasing role of human behaviour in modern security strategies.
Blending humour, real-world anecdotes, and deep operational insight, Steve brings listeners into his world: the pressure, the purpose, the joy of creating world class experiences, and the emotional reminders—like the Peace Bear on his desk—that keep him grounded in the mission.
This episode offers an unforgettable, behind-the-arch look at the complexity, responsibility, and heart behind securing the UK’s largest stadium.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-mcgrath-fsyl-ctrm-gcgi-3a969519b/
Security Circle ⭕️ is an IFPOD production for IFPO the International Foundation of Protection Officers
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Yoyo:I have with me as always, a top class. Guest a class act in a class role representing the security industry in its finest way. Steve McGrath not to be called Steven. He thinks he's gonna be in trouble, but he is today. Steve, welcome to the Security Circle podcast. How you doing?
Steve:I'm fine. Is somebody else joining us?
Yoyo:No. Can you see the fairy ears?
Steve:No, I'm just, I could see the furry ears, which is a cat for everybody who's listening. But that introduction, I'm not expecting somebody else to come in, but I like the voiceover voice. Wow. Are you gonna be doing movies?
Yoyo:I, I don't know, but uh, who knows? Steve. Look, most people know you'cause you hold a pretty cool job. I think. We've discussed, haven't we? How things have changed in the security industry when you hold a job of such mammoth kind of significance. I would say there's a lot of pressure. Big shoulders are needed, and I noticed that when I was in London working in the tall buildings district. There is a certain pressure to get things right all the time. When you come home at night, and I know you're seasoned, you're experienced. How do you deal with that pressure now compared to how you dealt with the pressure, perhaps when you first started working at Wembley?
Steve:So, thanks. You're telling me I'm old.
Yoyo:Just a little bit.
Steve:No, not really.'cause it's Everything's relevant or relative? Relevant. Relative. Sorry. I must apologize for my croaky voice. We had the capital summertime ball last night and because it's so loud trying to talk to the person next to you, you're constantly shouting. I. Which my Is it because you're going a bit deaf Steve though, really? I, no.'cause yeah, I have to take, health and safety very seriously. So I do wear my ear protection just to make sure that I'm protecting my ears.
Yoyo:You wear what? Sorry?
Steve:Ear protectors. What? This is gonna go really well, isn't it? Welcome to the Comedy Hour.
Yoyo:So you have explained your Bonnie Tyler voice this morning. What? Oh, and, and you've got a drink. You are fully ated, I hope. And if you need to cough, just mute yourself.
Steve:Wow. I have no idea what that means, but yeah, look, we'll go with it. But no, as I say, previously I worked in in policing account terrorism policing, so I was looking after a whole country. So the fact of, you know, coming to Wembley, it's 90,000 people plus all the staffing you've got on working with you as well. You've got probably about a hundred thousand people can be in the stadium at any one time. Then of course, you look at, we look at the venues in the immediate vicinity. So with the area around Wembley Park, you know, you're getting closer to 120, maybe that's 150,000 people that are in and around the area. If it's a busy weekend with us and the arena and everything else. If you've got good plans, if you've thought things through, you've identified what the risk is, you've mitigated that risk, then it's not anything to be concerned about because what you're doing is you are providing world class experiences, you know, stuff that people can't get from other parts of their daily lives, and making things special, creating those memories that matter more.
Yoyo:We've had to be fairly agile, haven't we, in how we approach stadia because, and, and I, I learned this just with a short stint with Chelsea Football Club, that it's become more about how we collaborate with our partners, certainly in that local vicinity. And it's become more about what goes on on the outside more than ever before, hasn't it?
Steve:Yeah, absolutely. It's being recognized far more. Than it ever has done before. If you look at different stadiums, um, Stanford Bridge is probably a good example because Chelsea was built up around a, a local, local area. Most teams across the country are named after the town or the city, which they've come from. So for, to be accessible to people, they're generally within housing states or they're within local streets. So it makes it more challenging to try and protect those local areas. When you look at Wembley, uh, with the national stadium. A stadium on this site now for over a hundred years. First built 1922 for the British Empire Exhibition, so it was a centerpiece of an exhibition with lots of activations that went on around it. So it was always constructed that way of being a centerpiece. After that, it turned into a sort of industrial land that was in and around it. Then in 2007, it was rebuilt. And there's a local developer that saw the potential of developing the area around Wembley Park. So it's, we've got, it's what I've often refer to as the egg. We've got transport hubs that are at the north to the east, to the west, and when you go around the back of the stadium up to the shoulders of Wembley Park Estate, no, sorry, Wembley Park train station, which is at the North Point, it creates the shape of an egg and that is Wembley Park Estate. So working with those various different stakeholders, we look at a holistic security plan that's built into that whole environment to make sure that we not only protect the stadium, we protect the residents, we protect the businesses, the London Design outlet, the tubal theater, Wembley Arena, you know, with, there's World-Class Acts, events that are going on within this area in amongst a residential space. So it's, I can't protect the stadium unless that area is protected too. So it's vitally important that we do work together to mitigate those risks.
Yoyo:And look, we all know what happened in the Manchester arena and it's now becoming very fast embedded into our history. I thought it was very helpful to read the list of learning outcomes. I. From that incident, and it must have been very much in the forefront of your mind. I know that even not working in Stadia, at the time, we all looked at that and thought, wow, okay, there's some significant learnings here. What were you thinking at the time and were you in the police at the time, the Ariana Grande incident?
Steve:Yeah, and it was, um, back in 2017, so I was working in counter-terrorism policing at the time. Probably the busiest year of my policing career. Um, and then of course 2018,'cause I was based in Wilshire, so the, the Serge Gral Salisbury inquiry, I was, I was working as part of that too. So it was, you know, very, very busy couple of years then moving into, into Axo. So Axo was at the heart of that preparation for the Manchester Renewal Inquiry. Um, working very closely with the, with the home office of. Exactly what had gone on. So there was a lot of work we did before the the, the inquiry took place to understand it an awful lot more. And where people will understand things around Martin's law and the legislation that's come out from it, you wouldn't necessarily know some of those internal things that took place of trying to understand and pick apart incidents that take place. So, to give a bit of an example, um, camp Sara Policing created a Palo, a protect, prepare liaison officer that works alongside an investigation to look purely at that protect and prepare element so that you can, an investigation will always look at the evidence that will lead towards a, a conviction and finding the person that's responsible for something that has happened, learning those lessons. What it didn't always have was the ability to look at it from a readiness response, recovery perspective, protective security so that we could provide advice and guidance out to the rest of the country to be able to, um, prevent such things from happening in the future. And it went wider than that because when you look at the protect and prepare arm of counter-terrorism policing, it's got an international requirement to it because the contest strategy looks at. It's not only the UK and protecting the UK, but also the UK's interests abroad. So it's a massive remit that they've got. And by putting in place some of those things, of getting that in depth investigative knowledge to then build into protective security was was was massive exit.
Yoyo:It's big job, no doubt about it. Did you think when you were in the police that you wanted to do that one day, you know, have such a critical job in counter-terrorism policing?
Steve:When I joined policing, I thought I would be walking around with my tall hat on helping communities. And when I joined, that's all I really wanted to do was just be the local community, Bobby, because Tony, my local community, Bobby, had such a massive impact on me. He was brilliant, he was friendly, he was jolly, but he had that air of authority that you always knew that that nice guy that you spoke to all the time. Would suddenly change if the situation demanded. And he would be that person who would stand in front of anybody else and protect the weak and the needy, those who needed his help at that time. And he'd do it alone with a small piece of wood in his pocket because that's all we had protection then just that trenching that officers had. But when I came to joining and within. Probably about a year or two of starting then. Um, my ambition was, yeah, I'd like to do 10 years as a pc, 10 as a sergeant, 10 as an inspector. If I finished it as as an inspector, I'd be really, really happy. And then as it transpires of how my career changed, um, it's a really privileged position to have been involved in stuff that I could never have possibly imagined. Been and seen and done things that, um, yeah, it just mind blowing. Uh, but my go, going into, into cancer terrorism, policing was unusual because it's you, you don't talk about what you do and having to have that sort of cover story to just so people don't ask you those questions, you don't necessarily want to answer. My, my niece came up to us for Taylor Swift, massive Taylor Swift fan., She's 10. Just had the time of her life. I met her beforehand. Um, she went out for dinner with my wife and my sister before they went into the concert. And it was all great. And then as soon as I walked out, walked out into the public arena. You go back into work mode. I could hear her saying to my sister, Steve's turned into James Bond. I'm not James Bond. It's just when you're in that role for what you do, you are aware, you are vigilant, you are looking out for threats, risks, gaps in what you've got for your security regime. You go back into work mode. But she'd taken that as I turned into James Bond.
Yoyo:That's so funny. I was quite inspired when you talked about PC Tony from your, you know, your younger years. I mean. Remembering that far back, Steve. I also have the same challenge, remembering that far back I had a PC stone in my area and I used to deliver papers to his house and he'd always wave from the window, and we always knew. If we were naughty, PC Stone would be the ones dragging us home in front of our parents and saying, you know, that we'd done something wrong. That was the impact then of community policing or neighborhood policing. So I always grew up with a very healthy respect, but I also respected PC Stone because even though I was delivering his paper every morning, he still took the time to give me a wave out the window, and that meant that, you know, I mean, I ended up joining the police because I had a healthy respect for the police, and it wasn't. Just that there were other things as well. And I'm thinking, do children grow up now and think of the same thing? Do they have a healthy respect for the police? Is it a job that they can aspire to do? And I remember when I was in rural policing and we would drive through the villages and I was on my probation. We were little kids. You had to wave at the police car and we'd go into Northampton Town Center and they'd flip us the bird. You know? It was very much a different culture, you know, they'd all be yelling at us as we drove past and swearing and things. And Anna, I just, oh, you know, what a shocker. How have things changed, do you think, now that you look back and not being in the police anymore?
Steve:Well, life is very different., There are different challenges now for when we were growing up, life seemed relatively simplistic. But if you actually delve beneath the surface, it wasn't that simple. It wasn't that easy. The risks were still there. We just weren't aware of them. I think one of the biggest changes we've got now is down to media. So whether that's the national, global or social media information's available at your fingertips all the time, and because of that thirst for information and you know, we see it in a security setting, if information doesn't come out about an info, about an incident that's taken place, it creates that information vacuum and someone will fill that vacuum. And the challenge you've got for the authorities is to try and put that information out there that's accurate. It's correct, and it gives you the right advice because there's, there's always somebody that will sort of fill that void and where you've got the news agencies now have got that challenge of, you know, they're employing content news writers that have to produce something like 20 news items a day, so they don't have the time to be able to verify the information that we would do. Before it's being released and it was always a constant challenge. And again, back into my Nexto days, I pushed and pushed about this data share to give our information to businesses so that we can manage and mitigate threat and risk, but there's always that push of, well, we, we can only give out information that's been verified. If you wanna find out what's going on, we look at Sky News. Sky News seems to have outlets everywhere, and that's where every news, news editor's competing against. So you're getting unverified stuff that comes out. And with that information becomes, uh, people will have a thought, they'll have a view on it. They'll, they'll, they'll make a judgment on what they've been told. So of course, you've now got parents and kids that are seeing things that are happening in different parts of the world. They feel it's now next to them, it's in their neighborhood. So they, they'll worry about that an awful lot more. So where you've got, I say all the threats and risks that people sort of face or perceive the risks they, they face now, it's probably, no, not really more different than it was before. Criminals are more mobile, so, you know, the, the, the area that they can operate in is, is far greater. But really the threats and risks are still there. You're just more aware of them now. Um, but undoubtedly, society's changing. You know, you mentioned before about when you're driving around Northampton, the levels of violence we see now is far different than ever was before. People seem a little bit more angry, but you know, you can put that down to so many things from world events to stuff that's happening in your, in, your own country or within your own locality. It's, um, it's always a tough world to navigate. It was always tough growing up.
Yoyo:Hearing you talk there, it's almost making me feel because I don't feel very angry. I don't, I don't embrace anger. It's just so destructive o on me personally, and I think a lot of therapists will say anger is never good for anybody. But you're right. There seems to be an increase in anger and it feels like a virus. It feels like, you, when you watch zombie movies, all of a sudden you feel people turn and it doesn't matter what they turn into. Turning into an angry person is, is equally as horrible as turning into a zombie in an apocalyptic movie. I don't know. Maybe we just lost that loving feeling. Steve,
Steve:you can write a song about that.
Yoyo:It's just rolling off the tongue. Um,, but look, talking about angry people,'cause that is a big factor of how you have to mitigate with a big stadium like Wembley. It's just dealing with stupidity as well. And let's face it, we've both been in the police, we've both seen a lot of stupidity. Some of it is with a very mal-intent. Some of it is just completely idiotic. And we all have to mitigate that, to a certain degree. How have things changed over the years for you, since you've, started managing such an important site? How has the human element, I should say, factored into how you do things?
Steve:I'm quite simplistic person. I like to break things down into simplistic terms'cause generally I'm not an expert in anything. I'm certainly not an expert in human behavior. But if I look at things through some quite easy, simple formulas, then it helps me through my normal day and it also helps if you know, you're looking at trying to build a security culture, then if you tell people simplistic things, they can remember it. Things like the power of three. If you've got three things to remember, you can generally retain that. Anything more, it gets a little bit more challenging. Mm-hmm. So I look at most things of what, who and how. So it's what am I looking at trying to protect? Who am I protecting it from and how are they likely to attack things? So when you're looking at from a security perspective of understanding human behavior, if you've got a bit of an idea of. Well, what's the things that are important to you that you're trying to put those mitigations, those threats around what the asset you're looking at trying to protect crowded places, people, the FA cup, the pitch, then you know what you're having to put your laser security around. Then going up to this bit about the human behavior.'cause you go, where's you going with this? The who bit is well, who's likely to do you harm? And you'll have those hostile people that are intent on doing something and you can understand what their ideology is, um, and why they'd be then be looking at trying to do something, which you can then understand their methodology of how they would look at trying to do things. But in amongst that, you've gotta consider the everyday person. I was talking the other day at the, because security advisor that come, also a security coordinator that comes to the events from, from the police. And we were talking through some of the incidents that have happened in other parts of London. Um, and there was, there's been a couple of, uh, and, and of course nationally, so the big one that's hit the news has been Liverpool with what's happened up there with the, the vehicle driving into the crowds.
Yoyo:Yeah.
Steve:It'll probably surprise people that there are around, on average, about three vehicles of weapon attacks that take place across the UK every week. Now they're not terrorism related, which everybody sort of thinks about from the terrorism related stuff of stuff happens nationally, internationally. Abusing a vehicle as a weapon, they could be, you know, it's, uh. A domestic violence incident where there's been a couple that have fallen out, and then one will drive into their partner using the car as a weapon. So it's using a vehicle as a weapon and a momentum attack. Or there's someone falling out with somebody in a, in a town center or on a Friday or Saturday night, and then they drive at the door staff or they drive a crowd that has thrown'em out of a nightclub. You know, these things happen all the time. So it's those elements of stupidity you need to cover off. And those elements of understanding a little bit of human behavior of fight or flight, what's the person thinking at the time that would cause them to, um, do something like that? So you've got all those elements to try and cover, uh, including the, you know, the blatant stupidity you get with some fans that will come to an event that will just do something really random and stupid. Um. And the one that comes to mind is marine flares. So at football matches, there's a massive problem at the moment with marine flares and smoke devices coming into Stadia. It's come from across in, in, in Europe's coming into the uk These things burn a thousand degrees, thousand degrees. You know, that's, that's pretty hot. And you're gonna hold this in your hand, or as we're finding with some people, they're giving them to children to hold. You know, what craziness is going on in somebody's mind that you'd give that to a child. You know, you, you see pictures of horrific burns, people losing hands and just stood in a tightly packed crowd. You should be sat in a tightly packed crowd because we don't condone people from standing in the stadium. They should be seated. That's why the seats are there safer. Yeah, and, and you've got this thing that burns at a thousand degrees or a smoke device that's pumping out all sorts of chemicals that people in and around, they're not able to breathe because of it. It's these sorts of things that we're having to combat and it's, it's a stupid thing to do, but people are doing it'cause they see it on television and they think it's acceptable. And that's where the challenge comes in of educating people of, look, you know, a lot of people are doing this because they really don't understand. And, and, and other people are sort of marketing this stuff as well, which encourages people to do things which are, which are crazy. And that's where the challenge comes in for us, of trying to find ways of educating people. Especially for us because, you know, our crowd can come from any part of the UK and come from any part of Europe or with a big tour that we had last year. We had people come from America, um, come across the Atlantic purely to stay in London for the weekend to see one of our shows. Always a challenge.
Yoyo:Well, I, I was referring back also to how they get these items into the stadium because you told me that they, they're, they're hidden in inside the body, and I think we can just leave it to everybody's imagination that you, you to even put something like that inside you, let alone hold it or let it off, is particularly terrifying because how do you mitigate against that, against somebody who's hiding it inside them? To how can you prevent it being there? That's incredibly challenging, isn't it?
Steve:It's, uh, amazing. You get ingenuity of people trying to hide things or defeat your laser security. You try and think ahead of how you can cover it. So from a technology perspective, we're looking at new pieces, technology to detect different levels of. You know, we're talking to different manufacturers of how we can get new and emerging technology. So we're testing some experimental stuff over the next couple of weeks to sort of see how that can work. But I mean, some of it's simplistic,
Yoyo:you think it would be quite hard for someone to walk with that inside them. So maybe that's the check. The test is to get them to do one of those sobriety tests, like the on the movie was Steve Martin.
Steve:I have absolutely no idea because I've never tried it.
Yoyo:It's so funny, it's a very famous movie scene with Steve Martin where he had to convince a police officer on the side of the road that he was sober and it came down to him having to do back flips and gymnastics and something. It was obviously, it was satire. Um, but I'm thinking it, it's gotta be hard to walk in it surely. Something like that inside you. So I'm thinking there's gotta be a simple kind of, I don't know, squat, test, and cough. Going back to my policing days. Good Lord. I wait for your
Steve:book to come out'cause this is gonna be quite entertaining.
Yoyo:Honestly. You don't wanna know what I did one Christmas day? Uh uh. No. I think we
Steve:do.
Yoyo:It's just literally the worst Christmas day ever. And I remember speaking to my family afterwards and I just remember thinking, I'm really glad you had a lovely meal. What I did today was I had to strip search a woman with severe mental health problems'cause she'd hidden lots of razor blades around and inside her purse. And I was like, oh, the things you have to do, like Merry Christmas.
Steve:No, I don't remember one Christmas it was. We, we'd found a chap on the, on the streets with very large knife. Um, and he was, he was intoxicated. Um, very angry. He was just shouting at random people. So there was clearly mental health issues that were going on, but we had to remove this very large life from him. Um, and he was disabled and he threatened to kick my head in, but he didn't have any legs. So it was, um, yes, strange Christmas.
Yoyo:I just, that's just crazy.
Steve:Maybe we shouldn't include that one,
Yoyo:but listen, going back to Wiltshire, because we just skate over that quite quickly. The, the thought of there being a noxious substance, certainly in a policing role is a pretty terrifying thought because it activates a lot of people within the policing community and outside the community, the policing community. This is the day that everybody dreads. Do you remember what, when you were on duty that day and what happened?
Steve:It was one of those things of no one really expected it, and there was some brilliant work that was done by the officers who attended, you know, we were attending to a, a. A, a couple you, it was father and daughter that were clearly in some distress. Um, in the, in the center of Salisbury City, you know, it's in, in the city center. This is a highly populated area. There were people walking in and around and for the, the officers to sort of the, the first attending officers that were trying to establish what had gone on,'cause these were symptoms that hadn't been seen anywhere. Um, you know, this is highly unusual for a hostile state attempting an assassination within, you know, a sleepy city within rural wheelchair. This is highly unusual, but for the officers of doing their basic investigation stuff, of looking online, uh, looking at, um, what form of identification have we got, doing some searches through the police information databases that are available, and even something really simple of. Having a look online of just doing a search on the person's name and then finding out who he was, which then put a different twist into it. So it was the whole thing of having the illness in the street, providing that care, providing the medical support, the ambulance service, needing some, um, assistance with trying to identify what it was, and then the policing skills coming in that helped with that. And then the work of Nick Bailey. Um, it's been much publicized. Nick Bailey, who was the Ds who was working that day, and the investigation stuff that he did, uh, if he hadn't been as Digi di diligent, I. Detailed in the stuff that he did in those early stages. Now, long before he, before the, the illness then, or the, the effects of the substances start to take effect on his body. Um, that really kickstarted that that whole investigation, which then ballooned into what it was, but the, the aftermath, the effect, um, this is a substance that's designed for warfare. That it is designed to affect people, incapacitate them, and be sticky. So it transfers so that you can't wash it off, but it will transfer into other areas of which affecting more and more people. The potential for what could have happened, uh, was massive. Um, what did actually happen was, um, it, it was big enough as it was, but you know, it being Salisbury, being so close to. UK scientific centers that were able to identify it really quickly and having the specialisms of some of the doctors within Salisbury Hospital that picked up on those symptoms at that early stage and went, do you know what? I think this is a chemical weapon? And people went, no, surely not. But because of Port and down being so nearby and the. The doctors from Salisbury Hospital working alongside with, with put and down on certain things of'cause they know it. Just that close working relationships. You go back to stakeholders again and good solid partnerships and it was that that identified what it was. So it could be contained as quickly as it was at an early stage,
Yoyo:When you look back, you think, my god, you know, it's almost like. If everybody had known how serious it was, they would've acted differently. Do you know what I mean? And now you can't help but think we would act differently, but it was the naivety of everybody but the cautiousness that led to it being managed so well. For example, you can imagine, can't you, that anything that presents remotely like this in the future is gonna have a very, very different type of response. And one could even think an overreaction. The British government did end up accusing Russia of attempted murder. They announced a series of punitive measures against Russia, including the expulsion of diplomats because of this incident. And the UK's official assessment of the incident was supported by 28 other countries which responded similarly and altogether an unprecedented 153 Russian diplomats were expelled by the end of March, 2018. So it led to a very significant breakdown in diplomatic relations, and quite rightly, this was. This was a, I can get you wherever you are, move, wasn't it?
Steve:Yeah. And if you look at the way the world is at the moment, there's a massive amount of conflict that's across, across the whole, of, across the whole of the globe. And that's gonna have an impact on how we deal with security within the uk. You know, we're moving away from where you've had, Groups that are looking at attacking different parts of Western Society's. Probably the Islamist extremism has been the, the most prominent part of terrorism that's been talked about over the last few years. And I do underline that bit of extremism'cause it's, the extremism is a bit that causes the issue. And now we're moving into angry countries. Angry countries that are looking at, trying to change their position within the world order. So whether it's economic supremacy, looking at taking additional land, and I'm not gonna get into the politics of different things'cause that's a, Hey, that's a whole podcast by itself. Mm-hmm. But we've gotta be aware of those different risks. And, you know, when you bring into that even targeted assassinations of dissidents on foreign soil, that's a, that's game changer.
Yoyo:Yeah.
Steve:A game changer as much as it's becoming more frequent, because it's always happened, you know, all you have to do is read a John Le Carey book and you'll sort of see all the stuff that's happened before. You know, the poison tipped umbrella on London Bridge. You know, these things have gone on in history, but it's now becoming a little bit more mainstream, I suppose.
Yoyo:Of all the things that you did get to work with on your experiencing counter-terrorism policing, what's the one thing that you always seem to go back to, with either a fond memory or a troubled memory? What's the one thing that you go back to in your mind?
Steve:It's relatively recent, to be honest. Gordon sits on my desk. So Gordon's a Peace Bear, and Gordon was knitted for me by Figan Murray. Oh, you've got one too. What's his name or her name?
Yoyo:Layla.
Steve:Layla. She's
Yoyo:a, she's a belly dancer at night, but she's also a corporate high flyer during the day.
Steve:Oh, fantastic.
Yoyo:Tell me about Gordon.
Steve:So Gordon sits on my desk and because he was given to me by Figan Murray. And for those listening to the podcast who don't know, Figan a amazing woman. She is Martin, he's mom. So going back to the Manchester Arena inquiry, she couldn't believe that there wasn't legislation that forced venues to look at security. And she started the campaign that has become Martin's Law. The Terrorism Protect Premises Bill or Act. It received royal descent on the 3rd of April. So Gordon sits on my desk and he reminds me every day just purely by his presence of being there, of why I do what I do. And I take him to briefings and he's been to the FA Cup final. He goes to concerts as well, um, to remind other people of, you know, what's, what's the purpose that sits behind Gordon? And the whole Peace Bear movement, it's for those people who have been involved in bringing this law into, into, into fruition. Um, and he, he fulfills that role. So if there's any time that, um, uh, I, I would possibly waver from what I do. He sits there and he looks at me and it's sort of, yeah, okay, Gordon, that's why I do what I do. So it's, yeah, it's really simplistic thing, but um, it one of those things that sits in your memory and I guess that's why you've got No, that's why she sits there.
Yoyo:Well, Lola says hello to Gordon. She's not sure if she can make the peace spares picnic yet, uh,'cause it's quite a, a long way away from home, but it would be certainly it's on her diary to attend. Um, you are right and we've interviewed, uh, Figan and Nick on the Security Circle podcast, and I was able to get right down into the nitty gritty with Figan. It's, it's a fabulous episode where I wanted to look at the partnership between herself and Nick. And of course it's not just about herself and Nick, other people were involved, including an amazing and supportive husband. But, um, I said Figan was the only person who'd really come into the security industry. From the outside, I. And was brave enough to take on the whole industry, win their hearts and minds, and then instigate the biggest and best change it could ever have in terms of unifying everybody and giving that sense of purpose, uh, a purposeful layer, uh, to what we do. And I said for that, and being a woman as well, which is, you know, it's a challenge. She's a very male dominated industry still. To come in and, and win everyone's hearts and minds is an extraordinary thing to do. Um, and she just, um, I said to her, look, you know, grief is a, is a very incapacitating thing, but it's also sometimes the opposite. She just explained that sitting down and moping and crying all the time was not gonna get things done. And she's a getting shit done person, right? Oh yeah. Including making many, many peace spares and, um, that they've traveled the world, her peace spares, and I think she's phenomenal and certainly deserving of her. She got an ob, didn't she? For her work. Yeah. So, uh, credit to you, Figan. Oh, look at Gordon. Gordon. This
Steve:isn't Gordon.
Yoyo:Oh, who's that?
Steve:This, I don't know the one's name in Canada. Um, yourself ready to be shipped back to, to Canada.
Yoyo:Wow. So for those that. Couldn't see that Steve was showing me a wrapped up, uh, peace bear, which you're gonna send to Canada. Um, and they, they arrive with a letter, don't they? They do, which explains all about them personally written and each peace bear's got a personality. So yeah. If you haven't got a peace bear and you're a huge, huge supporter of Figan, where have you been? Get in touch with her. Tell her you'd love a peace bear. Um, sure. She'll knit one for you. Um, she does have a waiting list all the time. She gets through them quite quickly and I think. I think she's amazing, brave woman, um, stadiums shout
Steve:out to, um, to, to Figan and to Stewart. They're amazing in what they've done.
Yoyo:Oh, thank you Steve. Um, stadiums are not just for sports anymore, are they? Let's talk about how stadiums have changed into very dynamic places that. I mean, my goodness, when you told me your schedule for this coming week, I was like, whoa, that's significant. They are money making machines for concepts, venues, and what did you say turned up the other day? Some you, you said earlier you had a whole bunch of something turn up.
Steve:Oh gosh. Yeah. So, um, so in terms of money making machines, the fas a not-for-profit organization, so we don't make any money at all. It goes back into grassroots football.
Yoyo:Wow. I had no idea.
Steve:Into grassroots football to sort of develop the game within the uk.
Yoyo:Wow. And I'm wondering how many people didn't know that. So I'm loving that you corrected me there. Mm. But from a head of security perspective for a very, very widely known venue, how does that. Change your sort of viewpoint in terms of every single day you've potentially got a different type of customer base coming in.
Steve:So I'll cover both of your questions in the, in my answer. Um, Wembley Stadium, everybody knows it as a, as the, it's the home of English football. It's known as a football stadium, but we do an awful lot more than just that, even from a sporting perspective. Over the hundred years that Wembley Stadium has stood, you know, it's two guises of where the Twin Towers and now with the iconic arch. It started off the original stadium was designed to last for five years. It stood for 79 years, and it was bought by a guy called Arthur Vin, who saw its potential as a dog racing track. How many people know that? So it's had dog racing. We've had rodeos, we've had the Race of Champions, which I know you will love because you're a big Formula One fan. So we've had Formula One cars that have driven around the stadium. It's been used for car racing in both in Twin Towers and in the current guys. The one you were talking about is it's the 50th anniversary of Evil Knievel's Iconic Jump over 13 London buses at Weby State. Right. That was 50 years ago. We had 60 motorcyclists turn up just about two weeks ago to note that historic event, including members of Evil Knievel's family, and that was quite a sight. 60 motorcyclists, all in the iconic evil Knievel sort of outfits with the small capes and the steals and stripes and everything. We've had ski jumping rodeos. We do currently do, we had rugby league last week. We've had rugby union, we do American football. We've got bull title boxing match coming up. We've had wrestling that's different. And that's just talking about some of the sports that we've had. I. Then you go into, you've had the visit the Pope. It's hosted the 1948 Olympics. We hosted parts of the 2012 Olympics Champions League finals, um, and then world leading concerts. So this year we won the award voted by promoters of the venue of International Venue of the year. Wow. Last year we had record breaking attendances for Taylor Swift This year, um, Coldplay are gonna do 10 nights, which is more than anybody else. We've got the reunion gig of Oasis. We've got, um, I said last night we did the capital Summertime ball. You know, we'll have 3 million people coming through our doors each year. 2 million of those will come in for concerts. So you've got to change the venue from being a sports stadium into a concert venue, into, uh, American football venue, into rugby within a very quick turnaround, sometimes very short space of time so that everybody who walks in through the door has the best possible experiences they can have. There's a quote that we've got on the wall in the office that, you know, you can score a goal at any venue. You can play a gig in any part of the world, but it matters more at Wembley.'cause it's that globally iconic place that it does matter more. So when you're putting together that world class experience, it's just, amazing. A fantastic place to work, we've talked earlier about the many layers. We've got security and it's everything from where, from the transport hubs working their way up towards the stadium. So where you are looking for those pyros, you're looking for those smoke devices, then we've got, we'll often have big behavioral detection officers are in that area that will be looking out for. The Public Spaces Protection Order of which you've got police officers, council officers, Wembley Park Security, our security, that will be looking to identify people who have them and educating the as they're coming up towards the stadium that they can't be used. And one of the best pieces of technology that's available is the Dog's Nose. You know, we are training our dogs now to pick up on the scent that comes within smoke devices and marine flares. So that we can, the dogs, passive detection dogs are then picking up on who has these things. So if you are secreting them inside or outside the body, then it gives you that ability that the dog will provide that indication. That then goes to further depth of search, which is often supported by the police. So there, there are so many different bits and different layers we're putting in place. So we're not only investing in that technology and new experimental pieces of technology to identify where people are secreting these devices or trying to smuggle'em into a venue. But we're also using the long established versions. With marine flares because they're tightly packed and there's not a huge amount of scent that comes out, then we're looking into the manufacturing process to identify those scents because the dog isn't interested in necessarily what it is. They just want to identify the scent because once they've identified the scent, they indicated to the handover and they've done their job. There's lots of different ways that we can look at doing that, just so we can make sure we've got that whole safety, security, and service element of delivering to our customers.
Yoyo:Yeah. In other words, don't bring them into Wembley. You'll get caught.
Steve:Don't take them anywhere. It's from health perspective. They are dangerous. Please do not take them. we're even looking at, speaking with mps, speaking with ministers, to try and change some pieces of legislation. We're working on trying to create some legislation for tailgating, which will be for the benefit of all stadiums across the uk. And again, of looking at this whole piece around Pyros main part is the education and getting the clubs to push that out through the sports ground safety authority that you can educate people of. Don't bring them'cause they're dangerous. People don't know. We need to educate people. We need to explain to them what it is and then enable them to be able to, come and have a safe event.
Yoyo:I'm just beyond belief about some of the lengths that some people will go. But on the flip side, actually, it was Coldplay that I saw at Wembley, and I don't go to Wembley very often, but you never forget that war cup. It's very nostalgic. Walking up to Wembley. It's just, it's like, it's almost like a chapel, like a church in the sense of you're going to this amazing, iconic location and just walking there is all part of the experience, isn't it?
Steve:It's amazing. And I know it's, it sounds a real cliche, but the buzz about doing this job is that you see parents bringing their children to Wembley for the first time. You can see in the parents' face how much it means to them and the excitement they've got for bringing their children. And you can see the anticipation in their children not quite understanding what it is. And where you're talking about is Olympic way. When you come out of Wembley Park Station and you've got that long road that leads up to the stadium with the iconic arch in the background. The whole thing has been framed that way specifically. So it is that jaw drop moment. You see it when you, when, as soon as you come out the station, you're down the steps and it builds and builds the excitement as you go up Olympic way to the stadium itself and where the ped ramps were in place previously, when it was previously built, they've been taken down to create the iconic Olympic steps. So it just frames the whole stadium into that, that one thing. And I have, I'll often have, um, high profile guests be coming, or you'll get police officers coming in as part of their security setup, and they come and go, oh yeah, well, I'm a rugby fan. I'm not interested in this place. It's just a, it's a football stadium. You go, okay, Jimmy, just show you around a little bit. Yeah. And you walk down pitch side and they stand inside the bowl and you could fit three football stadiums into Wembley. The different tiers are the same size as Stanford Bridge, Hurst Park, and the King Power Stadium, which is nest as ground. Their capacities fit on three of our levels and we've got five levels. So it's massive. It's currently,'cause there are other plans for other stadiums. Currently the biggest stadium in the UK at 90,000. And I defy anybody to walk in there and not be all inspired by the whole place especially.
Yoyo:Yeah. I mean, I wasn't awe inspired when I went to Chelsea for the first time when I went to Stanford Bridge. There's no doubt about it. These are beautifully designed stadiums, but I, one thing I can tell you is I just, I didn't enjoy Stanford Bridge from the West stand. When they were full of people, I did not enjoy that experience. Even as a contractor working with that location, I found it quite unpleasant. But, going back to Wembley and my experience being there as a customer. I've never found anywhere so well organized, even when it came to grabbing food beforehand. And I don't remember queuing, I just don't remember being claustrophobic, and I don't like crowds really a lot. But, I just remember it being incredibly well organized. So clearly the people there really care.'cause the customer experience isn't just extended to the show, whatever it is, whether it's sports or whether it's entertainment, the customer experience is down to that point of arriving. And the point to leaving isn't it as well?
Steve:It's amazing team and they work so hard on their attention to detail. We look at putting together customer experience from sofa to sofa, so it's all the information that we provide people before they come to the venue. It's working with the transport companies and the journey coming in. It's the experience As soon as you arrive on the footprint. So it just enhances and builds that excitement all the way through to the show and then people leaving as well.'cause it's challenging with that number of people to try and get them back onto their transport hubs of having had a such a great event. So we think of all of that to bring it in, and it's all centered around that safety, security, and service. We never forget that service bit in any part of what we do.
Yoyo:So before we finish, I have a great Formula One and Stadium question for you. And I think you're gonna, you're gonna know the answer, but which is the location where the Formula One race actually runs through a certain stadium around the world
Steve:through a certain stadium. Oh, that is,
Yoyo:you know this,
Steve:I do know it. I do know it.
Yoyo:And they adapt the stadium so the racing cars can go through it.
Steve:Yeah, they do. It's now it, well because there are actually two answers to this. One, I think one's Mexico. No it's not. Oh gosh.
Yoyo:It's let the, I mean, look, we've just had our 10th race and we've had the race in that particular location. In fact, I was there. You were there.
Steve:I was there. No, you, you to been mean now.'cause I've had the capital sometime Ball. Yes. I'm tired. I keep coming back to Indianapolis because they adjust that stadium, which is a, an Indy car track. To work with Formula One, and I keep, my mind keeps coming back to that one, but it's you.
Yoyo:You realize our listeners right now are going, it's Miami. Steve. Miami. It's Miami.
Steve:Yes. So see, things I haven't followed, right. Recent Formula One so much because I'm so busy with Stadium,
Yoyo:I'm a little bit, good answer.
Steve:Good answer with, yeah. My knowledge probably goes up to the early days of Louis Hamilton, but mostly Nigel Mansell.
Yoyo:the Miami International Autodrome is a Formula one track located at the Hard Rock Stadium Complex in Miami Gardens, Florida. It's a temporary circuit designed with a permanent feel and features a mix of permanent track and public roads around the stadium. The circuit is 5.41 kilometers long. That's 3.36 miles, has 19 corners, three straits and 3D RS zones.
Steve:Don't put this in the podcast because I know the head of security from the Miami Grand Prix and he's gonna take me for it. Sorry, Andy,
Yoyo:I think you need to introduce me to him. I think we need to get him on the Security Circuit podcast.
Steve:Yeah.
Yoyo:Brilliant. Of course I'm gonna leave it in Steve, you know Andy, you'll have to
Steve:take me out to Miami for the Grand Prix because, you know, just to make sure it's cemented into my memory. That's the only thing I'll say.
Yoyo:I was there. It was, it's a great track, by the way. Amazing. We, yeah, we were flying out to Heathrow, I think we had a 5:00 PM flight, so we needed to be at Miami International Airport, 3:00 PM which meant we needed to leave the stadium at 1:00 PM but we got there at 11 when it opened, and we had just two hours there to, feel, um, the experience of Practice one. And, it was amazing. We had the grandstand seat for that very short two hours. We spent a lot of money for just two hours. We were the first in basically,'cause we got there early to queue to get in early, and then we were the first to leave. It was just, they hadn't even set up the bi-directional, pedestrianized thing yet because they weren't expecting people to leave So early. People were like, we've got a flight to catch!! So, okay, good stuff. I thought we would weave in a little bit of Formula One there somewhere, Steve.
Steve:Well, it had to be done really, didn't it?
Yoyo:It did. world class experience, and a world class delivery from its head of security. Steve McGrath, thank you so much for joining us on the Security circle podcast
Steve:Thank you, yoyo. Yeah, it's always a pleasure to speak to you.