E020 Myths about the Military Part 1

Passionately Wrong Podcast Episode E020

Myths about the Military Part 1

Key takeaway: The military is a subset of society and reflects society. That’s why, for example, not everyone in the military has guns at home. It’s why you’ll see people with high school degrees, college degrees, and advanced degrees join. The military offers many opportunities. 

Topics covered in this video: 

• Ownership of personal weapons, guns at home
• Learning how to shoot: expert, sharpshooter
• Special forces - do they become unfit for society, or are they a subset of society?
• Relative risks: college, cars, and combat
• Who joins & why? 
• It's Harder to get into the military than in college
• Financial benefits of service
• Relevance of a college degree, before joining and during service
• Why the military trains its members

Transcript

James: 0:00

I gotta say from all of our conversations in including that description that you gave, just there, I get the sense that the military is an exceptional organization when it comes to continuous training, continuous development. Greetings, friends. I'm James.

Randy: 0:15

And I'm Randy. You're listening to The Passionately Wrong podcast where we challenge your assumptions, offer some different perspectives, and hopefully help you make better decisions. hello everyone. Uh, welcome to the Passionately Wrong podcast with James Bellville and Randy Searles. I'm Randy. And, uh, today we're gonna talk about misconceptions in the military because I have 32 years in the military and, uh, and I know from just my son's talking to me if nothing else, that there's a lot of misconceptions that civilians have about how the military functions and day-to-day life and things like that. And, and James has already asked me a few questions on the side, so we thought this would be a good topic. So I'm actually gonna turn this over to James to start it out with like, what do you want to know about the military that you think's weird or you're not even sure of?

James: 1:10

I appreciate that, Randy. And you're right, we. I had a few sidebar conversations and went off on such tangents that we didn't think it was appropriate. Uh, but we're gonna try and channel it a little bit here. I think the one that probably got us off to start with, and I'm gonna start there myself today, is, uh, weapons and the military. Because my sense as a lay person is that if you are a soldier and you're in the military, then you are surrounded by weapons all the time, whether you're on the base or off the base. And I would assume at home you've got a gun strapped under your table, a gun strapped to your die. Uh, and. I don't know why I should think that other than that's sort of your job. You need to know how to use weapons. So wouldn't that be a big part of your life all the time? Do you spend your spare time practicing shooting your weapons? Uh, you know, do you have pistols lying around the house at home? And it, it sounds stupid for me to say it out loud like that, but honestly, I have to admit that is a little bit what I think. Do you have'em in your car? Do you, you know, do you, is there one under the baby stroller? Do you strap one to your dog? Where do you keep your weapons? And how many do you have? So how many did you take with you when you left the military? Right? Did they give you So I assume you must have a bunch of guns.

Randy: 2:27

Yeah, I've never owned a gun myself in my life. Um, maybe I, I, I would, I would say that the majority of my peers in the Green Berets probably owned a gun, at least one. I know some that are exactly as you described, but they're their personal weapons. Let's get that straight, right? They're not the ones that we shoot on the military ranges. They're not the ones that the military issues us to, to use. They're their own personal weapons. So, Just like, uh, any average Texan probably has a bunch of weapons in his house. So, you know, the, a lot of these guys joined the military because they love weapons and they owned some before they joined. And as they got up in ranks and made more money, they bought more. And some of them have, uh, a, a gun safe full of pistols and rifles and, you know, hopefully not any grenades or anything. But, um, but, uh, I, I know people, uh, that are just like you described, they have, uh, one under their dining room table and they have one under their couch and they have one under their pillow and they have two in their car. Um, I never felt. This need for that. I never felt unsafe where I was living. Um, so I, I'm never felt like I needed that. Um, the military, I never shot a gun before I joined the military. Um, I didn't get the, um, gun shooting ma badge when I was in Boy Scouts. I got an archery one, but I didn't get a gun shooting one. So I never shot a gun before, except maybe at a festival, if that's com, like a BB gun or something like that, like a fair. Um, so the army taught me how to shoot, which in some cases the army prefers it that way cause you don't have any bad habits. So they teach you how to shoot. And I came out of the, I came out shooting expert, um, which I'd say probably 20% of basic trainees do that cuz they give you good classes. And some of the people who had been shooting their whole life don't necessarily make expert because they have bad habits.

James: 4:28

How much of your time do you spend practicing learning how to shoot? Is it something that happens at the beginning and then you're done? Or do you have to continue with it all the time? So

Randy: 4:36

everybody goes through basic training and in basic training they have basic rifle, marchman ship and they teach you how to shoot and they, you go to the range a number of times. I don't know how many, I wasn't ever, I wasn't ever a drill sergeant, so I don't remember how many times we went. It was a long time ago, but we went a number of times to practice shooting, to um, to practice our marksmanship and then to qualify. And, um, and then you, you have to shoot 40 targets. And if you get a 38, 39 or 40, you get expert. And if you shoot another, there's another margin for a sharp shooter. And then there's another margin for marchman. And then if you shoot below a certain amount, I think it's 23, then you don't qualify. And then you get a little badge to wear on your, your dressed uniform. Um, and then you can get badges for machine guns. You can get badge badges for grenade launchers. You can get badges for. Tanks, I think, you know, and, you know, if you become a tanker, things like that, you know, an an, uh, anti-aircraft, guns, Howard's and stuff like that, there's different badges you can get for, for, to get, to be an expert in your profession. You know, they, they give you kind of that, that motivation. It's kind of like all the games you play on your phone and you get the little, the little and stuff. Widgets and stuff like that when you do really good. Uh, they learned from the military probably. Um, so I learned, uh, how to shoot a machine gun, how to shoot a grenade launcher, how to shoot, uh, uh, a rifle in basic training. Um, and then I went to the Rangers and we shot machine guns, grenade launchers, and rifles a lot. And we did not shoot pistols at all cuz pistols were issued to, Medics and chaplain assistants and most other people didn't have pistols. And so we didn't have access, they didn't have the ammo to shoot it. We didn't have enough pistols for everybody. And this is back before nine 11. after nine 11 for sure, in maybe as early as the mid, mid late nineties, before nine 11, they started, um, issuing pistols to special operations as their secondary weapon. So if you're shooting your rifle just like you, if a lot of people are playing called a duty and all these, um, you know, first person games on their computers and stuff, when your character shoots its rifle and it runs outta ammo, uh, then you, you'll you put, you pull your pistol out in like a couple seconds and you'll still be able to engage. And then once you have cleared all your targets, you'll host your pistol and then you'll load up your rifle and you'll be ready to go again. And that's, that's the way the world works. Um, but that wasn't. That wasn't the way all rangers and especially all infantry, they just didn't, didn't have pistols for everybody. So not everyone learned how to transition from a rifle to a pistol. Not everyone learned how to shoot a pistol. And that became very obvious when I went to the Green Berets and they gave me a secondary, uh, weapon as a pistol and I never shot one before. And so, uh, the team was trying to teach me how to shoot, but they didn't really know at that time how to teach me how to shoot. Cuz it wasn't, it just wasn't a priority. And so I was a really bad pistol shooter for a while, and then I, something clicked. I went to some special, like two week training, uh, and uh, and something clicked and I became a very good pistol shooter, like overnight and just, I, I got all. Things that you needed to do. The breath, the, the, the hold, the how to hold it, you know, how to end it. It just seemed to all work out all of a sudden, and I got better. And then we started, actually after nine 11, we started prioritizing the transition and the pistol shooting and things like that. So, but I never brought any of my, obviously my weapons from the, we from the military home. And I didn't own any weapons and I didn't shoot in my free time because honestly, I didn't enjoy shooting that much. Funny enough, uh, that, that why I joined the Army to shoot. I joined the Army. I mean, I, I went, I, I came in the SF as a medic. Um, and so I did, you know, you know, first aid and amputations and stuff like that. Shooting was interesting. I ended up being pretty good at it. It wasn't the best by any means, but, and I ended up going to sniper school at one time, so, Hmm. I was, I was sniper qualified, but, um, but it wasn't my favorite thing to do. I didn't fi, I didn't wanna sit out in a range with a sniper rifle and shoot all day. And some people love to do that, that that's their dream job. And they, and their, their and, and the, and they did it. But I, that I was never interested. They never interested me, never did. So, um, that's,

James: 9:19

so I think what you're saying is it's somewhat individual. You will be surrounded by, um, rifles mostly. Uh, but now also depending on your occupation or role within the military, also pistols. But you can certainly have an, uh, your life outside, um, entirely free, uh, of weapons as, as you do. And I'm sure others do as well.

Randy: 9:39

Yeah. And, but, and also, you know, the military, some people think that everyone in the military is a fighter. But the, they al the, the rule of thumb is you have nine people supporting one trigger shooter, trigger puller, right? Oh. So, so one combat guy has nine people behind him. Between hr, you know, finance, medicine, you know, medical, dental, legal, uh, supply, logistics, all those people, there's all there, you know, 90% of the military is supporting that 10% that are in the front lines.

James: 10:14

I suppose that makes sense, and I understand it. You know, there's a lot of logistics that goes into making everything work. Let's, since you do have experience in the special forces as a ranger and as a green beret, let's get to another misconception, perhaps, uh, or you tell me, which is, okay, you are that one out of 10. The, the, the, the trigger and off doing dangerous things. You know, there's an impression in popular media, in movies and in books that if you are. I won't, I, I won't specify cuz I couldn't say which. If you're somehow in one of the special forces, you're likely to be a psychopath. You like going around killing people. You're dangerous and inherently, inherently unstable and unsafe. Right? You're not fit for human consumption anymore or societal consumption because you've just been trained to be lethal. And so how do you take a person who's been put through the rigors that are required to turn someone into a lethal killing machine and expect them to be, you know, acceptable and polite society? You're just somehow, I'm sorry if this sounds rude or dangerous or damaging, Randy, I don't mean it that way, but that is a little bit what you get. You read a Jack Reacher book and the special forces guys are off, you know, serial killer in their private time and he's gotta hunt'em down. And it seems like there's not an easy life outside the military for someone who's spent a decade or more becoming a highly trained, um, dangerous person. How would you assess that myth?

Randy: 11:41

Well, I mean, I think the military is a subset of society, of the, of American society. I think if you look at all of the, unfortunately the many mass shootings in the United States, you, I don't, you're not gonna show, you're not gonna show 50% or 40 or 30. I think you'll probably maybe show 80 or maybe more, uh, that are not military. Right. Um, especially the ones that are happening in the schools that don't, that don't seem to be attributed to military at all, which are the big

James: 12:13

good point actually. You don't usually hear about mass shootings involving military. There's not often a connection there. Okay, so that's a good point, um, to say, well, okay, there's not a lot of correlation, at least with what is happening in broader society.

Randy: 12:26

Uh, I mean if you're, and then if you want to talk just violence, I mean, once again, we're a subset of society. We have people who are, you know, have domestic problems and, but there's, uh, plenty of civilians out there that are do, that are involved in domestic violence too. I don't think you'll see a higher percentage with the, within the military culture than, than civilian culture. I think it's probably about average. I had an argument about, cuz there's a huge amount of, um, press whenever there's rape or something, or, or, or sexual assault in, in the military. But I think, I think, uh, I've seen statistics on that too. And it, I don't think it's any higher than college. Uh, you know, I, I had an argument with, with, uh,

James: 13:12

I've actually seen statistics going the other way, saying that you're safer in the military than you would be on a college campus. Uh, seriously.

Randy: 13:18

Right? I know. I, I was going through my master's program. A lot of them were teachers and, um, and I ha and I had an argument they never served in the military and then we had an argument about rape culture and the military. And I was like, what are you saying? He's like, he's like, oh look, you know, all these things are, there's just so many rapes in the military. It's like so many compared to what, I mean if you're, if you're looking to be, to send your children to a safe place, maybe you don't send'em to a college. Cuz that's probably the biggest rape culture there is. And they're like, well, but I was like, but what I mean, if, if you're saying that they're more likely to die in combat than on, on the street driving a car, they should probably go to combat cuz there's a lot more. You know, fatal accidents in the United States on the road than people getting killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. I mean, you look at the statistics, it's not even close. So I don't even know what, what, what we're arguing about, you know?

James: 14:14

I mean, the reason, misconceptions and myths arise is that people draw wrong conclusions from, available data. The availability heuristic. You read what's in the headlines and you read about an airplane crash, and you assume airplane crashes are more prevalent than they are because they're always reported. Same thing with actual, you know, mass shootings. You assume they're more prevalent than they are because they're always headline news. And I, I expect that is indeed how some of the misconceptions about any profession arise. But certainly also the military, since you said, and I think you're correct, that the military is just a subset of society and is so gonna reflect all sorts of things. Let's get to another one about who joins the military. I think I would say. The misconception is it consists of either Patriots people who, you know, put America above everything else and so serve for altruistic reasons. And then, um, misfits is probably the wrong word, but people who don't find an e easy way in the other, you know, in our previous podcast we talked about work in the system, right? So you go to school, you get a job, you do a profession. People who don't have an easy way with that because they don't like school, they don't wanna go to school, they, you know, are chafing against the existing system, often find their way to the military. Am I wrong to say that those are the two buckets, or should you say it's all the rest of society as well? Who do you think decides to go because it's a volunteer service?

Randy: 15:36

Well, well first of all, um, there's a famous, um, green Beret who's also m m a fighter called Tim Kennedy. And he often, he often says this someone to quote him, it's harder to get in the military than it is to to college. Is that, so why? Yeah, of course. Well, um, first of all, we don't take obese people,

James: 15:59

Uhhuh, the physical fitness, uh, standards, se

Randy: 16:02

Second of all, we don't, if you have a history of doing drugs, we don't take you, if you have a history of mental illness, we don't take you. I mean, that just, just those three things right there. I mean, you can see how it's high 70% of, uh, the population, right? So, so as, and then also, you know, they have wish washed back and forth. But the latest thing I think is you have to have a high school degree, right? But you don't have to finish high school to take a test to get into college, to get in a community college. You can start community college without a high school degree. You just have to take an entry exam. All right.

James: 16:38

That doesn't, I mean, I accept, and I like that quote, harder to get into the military than it is to get into college, but it still doesn't address the point of whether you're attracting psychopaths or patriots or who.

Randy: 16:50

you're getting a bigger and larger and larger subset of educated people in the military, you have en, so first of all, officers are come from a college somewhere. They've gotta go to college first. So you're getting college students from the colleges around the world. Every college has, you know, pretty much someone I, I've met people from Harvard, I've met people from, you know, Princeton. I've met people from ut so I know all the have was their motivation.

James: 17:17

Would you say, what, what do you think they see as the value?

Randy: 17:19

Some, some of, some of them is patriotism, some of them is college money. Some of'em is a, a steady paycheck. Some of'em, I mean, why, so doctors, you get your med school, you get college and med school paid for. And you, in 20 years, you get a, uh, you know, a probably a eight or$9,000 check every month automatically. And that's a, and, and also they give doctors huge bonuses. I mean, you may not get getting your, the annual salary of, you know, the neurosurgeon, you know, and the civilian world, but all your insurance is covered. Uh, you, you, you're not gonna get sued. You're, um, you're getting huge bonuses at the end of the year that aren't taking you up to that level, but, you know, maybe halfway. And then you get this, you get this, you know, retirement check every year for the rest of your life and, and not including all this stuff you put in your four Oh. and everything else. So I think money paying you paying,

James: 18:15

I think is, it's a good job and provides you with a good value proposition.

Randy: 18:19

It's not a bad job, but, so a, a private at the lowest level starts at$2,000 a month. That's, that's better than working at McDonald's. And you, and you get, and that, and they cover your, if you get private, you're single, private, they cover your housing, your electricity, your water. You have to pay for your cell phone and if you want a car. But

James: 18:40

everything else before about how, if you are clever in how you manage your money, no matter you know, what level you start at, including as a private, you can start saving a really good amount of money, uh, taking advantage of all the other benefits that the military offers. So, I mean, you

Randy: 18:54

can, you, and within four, you start with two, 2000 a month. And by the end of, uh, four years, you'll probably be making around 4,000 a month depending on the promotions your wage goes up every two years no matter what if you get promoted or not. But you should be able to get at least three promotions in four years. And if you go to special schools, like if you go to a Green Beret school, you'll get an extra thousand dollars a month for being a Green Beret.

James: 19:19

So you're saying that. It's selective in the first place because there's several criteria that'll just knock you right out. Um, so it's a small subset of people who are actually even able to apply It is,

Randy: 19:31

you also have to take, you also have to take an intelligence test. I mean, they haven't, they have a test to get in, and if you score the lowest on the test, you're a cook, you know, or whatever. You're cooking, you're peeling potatoes. We don't peel peel potatoes anymore. We have potato peelers. there are jobs that require, you know, the least score on the test to get in. But no one really wants those. I mean, even infantry's, not even the lowest on the thing. There's lower jobs.

James: 19:59

I see. All right. So I, I think that's a good answer to the question or the, you know, the misconceptions about who joins the military and why. You mentioned a moment ago, officers will have come with a college degree. Let me ask you, uh, or give you a misconception there,

Randy: 20:16

there's a shitload of enlisted guys that come. I've seen people with master's degrees. I have a, there was a guy that came in with two master's degrees and he wanted to be enlisted. He wanted to be an enlisted Green Beret, even though he was gonna earn less money, cuz that's what he wanted to do. And so there's people, and so Green Berets maybe are a different subset because you get a lot of really talented people that that's what they want to do. Right? But e, even in the normal army, I met a girl, she had a master's degree from Harvard and she was barely apri. She was a, just a rank above a private, she came in as a private, I mean there's a, some really educated now a lot of these people are bitter. I

James: 20:58

was gonna say, I don't understand it necessarily, what the motivation, so some, some people want to do it.

Randy: 21:03

Some people, um, get, feel like they got tricked by the recruiter, which just sounds weird, but I guess it could be done, but it just, I just, I just don't believe it. I don't, I don't believe that happens very often. I think they misunderstood it or they did it for another reason. They blamed it on that, so they didn't look stupid. But there are a lot of people, I, I had a guy in basic training who had graduated college. He was in RO O T C, and he came in as an enlisted guy thinking that's what he wanted to do. And after he got through basic training, he is like, I don't wanna do this. And he went to ooc s So as soon as you, if you come in and you don't like your enlisted job and you have a degree, you can apply for o c s and become an officer within a year. I mean, if you're, if they, if they check, if you check all the blocks, you have to get recommendations from your commander and stuff like that. But, but there, there's a really, and also I would also say that the Army today, If you don't, at some point within the first 10 or 12 years start towards getting a college degree, you won't get promoted to the highest levels as enlisted guy. It didn't used to be that way. When I came in, there was a lot of people who reached the highest level of enlistment, which is, uh, a sergeant major, and they didn't have a degree. There's, there's people that reach that level, but as I was getting out, it was becoming harder and harder. not only that, but the army is kind of integrating that into their leadership courses. So at every time you get promoted, you have to go to a leadership course that teaches you to lead at the next level. Mm-hmm. and that, and now they're incorporating college level leadership courses that they're, they're working together with universities and saying, all right, we're gonna give'em this leadership. Eight week, 10 week, 12 week leadership course. They're gonna have to do, uh, a year of online training before they even go to the, the one-on-one course. And we want to integrate with you the university here, the Army will pay for it. And we want to integrate you having instructors teach leadership courses and financial courses or whatever to our guys. And then we want you to give them an associate's degree when they got eight years in. And we want you to give'em a bachelor's degree at 15 years and we want you to give'em a master's degree at 22 years because they're gonna go, they're gonna get serious leadership, uh, courses and be, and, and, and um, maybe HR courses depending on what their specialty is and stuff like that. And that's what we would like you to do. And they work with these universities. The military pays for it, and they get these degrees in the military through going to these leadership courses.

James: 23:33

I gotta say from all of our conversations in including that description that you gave, just there, I get the sense that the military is an exceptional organization when it comes to continuous training, continuous development. It's not like you're ever, you're in a role and then you're, that's it, you're stagnant. I mean, maybe that happens, but there seems to be such a premium placed on training and, you know, trying to keep people advancing in their careers. And that's exceptional cuz a lot of organizations don't maintain that.

Randy: 23:58

What they teach, they, they assume everyone has the ability to learn, get a degree, and rise to the highest level.

James: 24:05

So they don't pigeonhole you and say, you came in as a cook, you're gonna be a cook forever, or, you know,

Randy: 24:10

Nope. They, they don't, they, they don't, they don't. And they don't, they don't. That's such a positive. That doesn't matter. Doesn't matter what race or what gender. It doesn't matter where you came from, where you were born, what, who, how, if you were poor or rich or me, medium, it doesn't matter. Any of that stuff. You're a soldier and we

James: 24:27

assume an ultimate egalitarian organization, if you, we

Randy: 24:30

assume perform, you can move up. Yeah. We'd love to hear what you think, so please comment on the show with your thoughts. We read all of your comments.

James: 24:38

Thanks for joining us, and thanks for subscribing. See you next time.