E028 The Camino de Santiago

Passionately Wrong Podcast Episode E028

The Camino de Santiago

Key takeaway: Randy decided to hike the Camino de Santiago the year he retired from the military, a 500-mile pilgrimage traveled by 1000s of people from around the world.

Topics covered in this video: 

• What’s the Camino like
• Why do people hike the Camino

Transcript

James: 0:00

So was this a religious journey for you? Or maybe I can ask, what was your motivation personally for wanting to take, uh, you know, the better part of a month and, and walk 800 kilometers? Uh, what was, what

Randy: 0:15

was your thought process? Well that's the year I turned 50. It was also the year that the Army, uh, said that it, I'd spent too long in the Army and I needed to leave. So there was a lot of changes going on in my life.

James: 0:30

greetings. Friends. I'm James.

Randy: 0:32

And I'm Randy. You're listening to The Passionately Wrong podcast where we challenge your assumptions, offer some different perspectives, and hopefully help you make better decisions. Hey, welcome back everyone. I'm Randy. This is James, and today we're just gonna talk about something that maybe you guys aren't familiar with, especially if you're Americans. It's called the Camino. The Santiago, which is a approximately 500 mile hike across northern Spain, starts in the. Mountains in France actually starts across the border in France. And then you walk somewhere between, uh, let's say an average of 20 miles a day. Obviously not 20 miles a day for 30 days, cause that's 600 miles, but somewhere between 15 and 20 miles a day. Sometimes a little longer, sometimes a little shorter, depends. And, uh, you walk along. A lot of it's a trail. Some of it's a dirt road. Some of very, a few parts of it are along kind of, uh, Some paved roads, unfortunately cuz of, you know, PR progress and, um, you carry a small backpack, uh, with a couple changes of clothes. You stay in hostels every night. Um, and some, uh, sometimes you'll pass through some large towns where you can stay in a, a real hotel if you want. Um, and you eat breakfast at the hostels or the, you know, kind of a continental breakfast. You, uh, eat lunch on the road and cafes and, uh, they call'em bars, but they're just like little cafes along the way. And you eat dinner when you stop at the final destination where your hostel is. You can eat dinner at the hostel or you can go to a restaurant, obviously, so it's not Appalachian Trail, carry your whole life on your back for, you know, six months. It's, uh, and there's different versions of it. The traditional one's called the French Way. It's 500 miles, but there's, there's one that goes through Portugal. They all end into the same city though, which is Santiago Deela, which is a very religious ci uh, city in the Catholic church. So that's supposedly where, um, St. Uh, St. Or James is the. Apostle James' Bones was buried. Um, and so this whole thing is very religiously connected. It was supposedly all the, uh, the, um, pilgrims would walk this route and, and to get to, to pay homage to, um, the, the, the cathedral there in uh, uh, Santiago to comp string. Is that what it's, I think Anyway, so, and I did this in 2018, so it's about five. Five years ago almost.

James: 3:10

So, okay. Thanks for that introduction, Randy. It sounds interesting. I had been familiar with the concept of pilgrimages, uh, in two senses. One is just going to a holy place. And the other one is

Randy: 3:28

the journey

James: 3:29

of getting to the holy place so you can go to a place without taking a month to get there. A lot of the pilgrimages that, uh, people are aware of now, uh, from a historical perspective required a long and arduous journey to get there because that's just, it was the middle ages and there was no buses or planes. You had to walk if you wanted to get there. So it was a big deal just to, to make the journey. Nowadays, I think many people visit holy places in a more simple way than what you're describing. They don't, they don't walk a long time. They, they go there, they have a a, an afternoon there, they kiss the blarney stone or whatever it is, and then they, they leave again. So was this a religious journey for you? Or maybe I can ask, what was your motivation personally for wanting to take, uh, you know, the better part of a month and, and walk 800 kilometers? Uh, what was, what

Randy: 4:21

was your thought process? Well that's the year I turned 50. It was also the year that the Army, uh, said that it, I'd spent too long in the Army and I needed to leave. So there was a lot of changes going on in my life. Uh, I also started, uh, my divorce before I, um, started the Camino. So like I started, I, I started walking in May. And I'd started, I'd been planning it for a year, uh, buying equipment and researching equipment and stuff like that. Um, just having the right backpack and the right shoes and things like that. Um, but um, started my divorce in March, so that was two months beforehand. So there's a lot of changes in my life going on there. Also, for me, initially, I would say because of the physical physicality of my job. And then, um, I was, uh, had a lot of injuries in the military along the way, and maybe I wasn't as fit as I, I didn't, I know I wasn't as fit as I used to be. Um, put on a couple pounds. Um, my whole life has been about, you know, Competition and trying out and being the best of the best to get into the Rangers and the green bras and, and all these things. And you know, I, in my, when I was in my mid forties, I was doing the Spartan race. Um, but I hadn't done anything in five or six years for sure. My knees were kind of shot, my back hurt, my shoulders were wrenched. And, uh, this sounded like a way to kind of prove to myself, That I was still, you know, that I could still had it, I guess is kind of what I knew originally. Originally, and also was a month away from the clutter, you know? Uh, and, uh, but primarily, I think initially it was a physical thing. Like, I can do this and then I can brag about it. 500 miles. Yeah. Um, but it quickly turned into something else where I was thinking about what I was gonna do with the rest of my life. What I was gonna do after I left the army, you know, what if I was gonna travel, which is what I really wanted to do, if I was gonna, you know, live in Europe and bounce from country to country and learn languages and you know this, that's the dream, right? Um, and so I was, you know, it quickly turned into a lot of self. Looking into myself and figuring what I really wanted to do, what I really could do. Um, kind of reflecting back, if we look at back the last episode, we were talking building wealth, you know, where w where was I, wealth wise to complete my dreams and things like that. So I, I would also say that there's some people that do this as a challenge. And they never, for lack of a better word, learn the lesson. Um, there's these Appalachian hikers and you know, a lot of'em are American, unfortunately, where they're just, they just like to collect, you know, the Pacific Coast Coast, uh, trail Crest Trail, I think it's called the Appalachian Trail. Whatever trail they can mar, walk and conquer, that's their goal. And when they walked this trail, They were disappointed and obnoxious in some cases. I remember reading like blog posts of this one American were like, this is the easiest thing I've ever done, you know, and I didn't get my certificate. So when you finish this, you go into the Catholic church and they have a kind of a welcome center. And while you're doing this walk, you get stamps at every city you go through at a rest. You can get'em at the restaurants, you can get'em at the hostels, but they stamp your. It's called your passport, but it's not a passport, it's just a, a book of squares where you put stamp, they put stamps mm-hmm. For the different cities, and you have to prove that you've walked at least a hundred miles, basically along this route. Um, and it, once you, if you prove that, then they'll give you a certificate of completing your pilgrimage in Latin, signed by a religious supervisor or, you know. Mm-hmm. And, um, This guy didn't get it because he didn't get all the stamps and he was whining because, hey, they weren't open. When I stopped by and I didn't stay in the hostel, I stayed in a tent cuz I'm tough and, and so and so the hostiles are closed usually until, Three in the afternoon. They open, they're open, they, they stay open all night. They give you dinner, they feed you breakfast, and then they push everyone out the door by nine. And then they clean the whole place up and they buy all the food for the dinner, for the ne the breakfast for the next people. Mm-hmm. And some of these cities, these little villages are only there because of the pilgrims. They call'em the pilgrims, the people who are walking this, their only way to make money is the pilgrims. And during, when the, when in the winter months, they close down because there's no pilgrims, and then they, they go on vacation and then they open up, you know, April the next year and, and there for the pilgrims. And so they're closed during those times. And so yes, when you walk by, no one's open. And then they have siesta too, so there's no restaurants open if you walk by the wrong time. So they, this guy, obviously, there's. People who don't learn the lesson, who are taking taxis from, you know, through the whole thing and don't get the stamps or do get the stamps or whatever, and that that's their own priority. But the majority of the people there, even if they don't figure it out like I did at the beginning on day one, within a couple days or a week, they figure out why they're really there. And when you talk to the people that are walking it, they don't. Like I said, with first couple days, most of'em don't know why they're there until, and then after the first week, cuz you walk with a cohort, basically everyone who starts on the same day is gonna stop at the same place on the first day cuz there's only one city over the mountain. Mm-hmm. Within 25 miles. So you're so tired after walking up and down the ESE mountains that you're just like, screw this. I'm stopping. So everyone stops in the same place the first day and everyone meets all these people, and then the second day, everyone stops around the same city again because most of the hostiles are built at set distances. You're gonna, you're not gonna walk 10 miles, otherwise you're not gonna finish in a month. You're gonna walk 15 to 20 miles. Well, in the 15 to 20 mile mark, there's really only one semi large city that can hang so many hosts. And some years before covid, 102 thou, a hundred thousand people were walking a year. So there's a, and depending on what time of the year you walk, you could have, you know, 10,000 people on the trail at once, you know. Wow. Or, or, and maybe, you know, 500 at each stop along the way or something like that, you know? So, I don't know the numbers. I'm trying to, trying to do the, the calculations in my head, but there's a lot of people that, that need to stop here. So most of'em stop in the big, there's books and most of the books tell you Stop at this city, this city, this city. Mm-hmm. This city. Mm-hmm. And then on the. Cities on either side. The small villages that are one or two or three miles away from the big cities, there may be two or three hostels, but most of the city, most of the hostels are in the big stops. And so you meet the same people every day cuz you end up staying in the same hostels. There's only so many hostels. So you may see them in the same hostel. You'll see'em in restaurants along the way. The guy that you had dinner with. Because the hustles all eat in the like big tables of 10, 15 people. So you're sharing food

James: 12:03

reservations or do you just, you know, you have a rough idea and you just go, do you, I mean, just logistically how much planning did you do to know where you were or think where you were gonna go and uh, how did it

Randy: 12:13

work out in practice? So, I purposely left in May, which is. Not as active as June and July with the, uh, with the anticipation of finishing around mid, late June. Um, because there's not as many people traveling at that time because school's not out. If the college students go, you know, people finishing college are going on these things cuz they're trying to figure out what they're doing with next in their life and things like that. Um, they usually don't, most of those people aren't starting until June, until after school's out. So because I did that, I ne I never made a reservation. But if you go in the heavier months, you probably need to make a reservation or you'll, there was one time where I walked. Through this town passed at least 20 hostels and they were all full. And I got to the edge of town on the last hostel before the, there was nothing after the road. Like I'd have to watch, walk to the Next Village. And they, and that hostel was completely empty, like none, zero. Nobody was there. It was just me. So, Um, so, but that was really lucky. Otherwise, if that hustle hadn't been been there, I would've had to walk to the next one or, or stay in a, maybe there would've been a hotel. I don't know. I, I did stop at two hotels and they were full too. So you take a risk by not doing it. You can make the reservations the night before too. Like I was a super slow walker, so I would get to the city in the last 10% of the people that were walking, I'd say 10, 15%. And so as a result of that, You know, I had slim pickings. Uh, so wait a minute, wait a minute. Yeah.

James: 13:46

That surprises me, Randy, knowing what I know about your competitiveness and your physicality, uh, I don't care how young some of the people were who were on the trail, uh, how, how is it possible? I

Randy: 13:58

got, I can't even run time. I can't even run anymore cuz of my knees. I literally can't run. So, so I, I can only walk and, and also when I walk for too long and they swell up, so I had. You know, and every, almost everyone uses the, the walking sticks as well. But, so I knew I was gonna walk slow. Um, I ended up losing, uh, 35 pounds Wow. Through the whole thing over a month. And, uh, but, but, uh, I've heard

James: 14:31

about that actually, that, you know, it's very unusual for people to ever walk. 15 miles once, let alone every day for an extended period of time, and I've heard that it. Creates quite some physical transformations if you are able to stick with it. Um, do you have any idea how many people, uh, aren't able to finish and drop out somewhere along the way?

Randy: 14:55

Well, that's the thing, right? So first of all, not everyone goes there with the intention of finishing, right? Some people. Walk week long, they, they wanna walk the whole thing, but they don't have the time off. So they come down, they fly down, they drive down, they walk a week, and then they go back home, especially the Europeans cuz they're close by, do, you know, do whatever. And they come back the next year, start where they left off. Some Americans have been known to do that too. Um, and the, there's, there's the competitive people that, once again, I don't think that they ever learned the lesson that are like, you didn't finish. Quitter, you know, they're that kinda thing, you know, you're, you're not a real pilgrim, you didn't even finish it or whatever. Right. And then, uh, or, or there's some people that just start at the a hundred mile mark so they can get their certificate. There's a lot of, there's a lot of tourism. Communo tourism through church groups in the States where some guy's like, I did it, I'm gonna organize it. Everyone pays so much that'll pay for your plane and your equipment and, and, and my ticket because I'm gonna be your guide and, and fly that. Like I, we met somebody like that at the a hundred mile mark cuz there's a big city where there's a big, there's a train station there and, and basically it's hu huge. Support just for the Camino cuz people wanna do the last a hundred miles cuz they get the certificate, so it's more significant to them. So they, they, they're just have big groups sh shipped into there and, and they all walk together and you don't have to walk with equipment if you don't want. You can, they have a system in place to support the network for whatever you want to do, and they have a system of taxis that'll take it from your hot. If you make a reservation, they'll pick it up. You leave your back. I had, this was one lady, she had a huge suitcase that was bigger than her full of shoes and clothes so that she'd have enough attire for, because. I don't know why she needed all that, but that's what she did. So she, she, she walked every day with a, a water bottle and a apple and some money to buy lunch. And then when she got to the destination, her. Her suitcase was waiting for her at her hostel. She made the reservation be day before, the night before. She'd called the taxi, say, I'm at this hostel, I need you to take it this hostel. They're like, no problem. Uh, and then you'd leave it with the hostile administration with the little thing saying You're with your name on it. And then at some point during the day, the taxi would come up, the van would come up, they'd take it to the next place and, and wait for you there. So what you're saying

James: 17:25

is, if I hear you correctly, Randy, there are. Many different ways to approach this, both in terms of your state of mind, what you hope to get out of it, and in terms of logistically, if you wanna have it completely unscripted, if you want to have it completely planned, if you want to have only what you carry on your back, or if you wanna indeed bring a suitcase with a change of clothes or every

Randy: 17:49

evening, it is so pretty flexible. I met, I met a lady that felt moved. By the G by God felt or he, he spoke to her is what she said. She bought a ticket that with all her money that she had to get to the start and she didn't have any money. Wow. And she did the whole thing. Now, there's certain places that are run by the church that are only donation, only certain hostels that are run by the church. They're donation only. And you don't have to donate anything if you don't want to. And they have, um, they have, uh, almost every hostel has a community kitchen where pilgrims before you, before you bought a bag of spaghetti and only ate half of it, and they left it in there. And they bought, you know, they have, there's tomato sauce in the fridge from the last guys yesterday. They didn't all use, and they just, it just gets passed on. And there's clothes that people, you know, most people bring too much. And on day three, like me, they spread everything out. They said, all right, if I haven't used you yet, I'm throwing you away and you put'em in the, the, the, the hand down box. And so every hostel has a hand me down box with clothes in it, shoes, anything. So this lady basically walked. She found a water bottle along the way, filled it with all there free water fountains all along the way. There's free wine, wine fountains in some places. Uh, and, uh, you, you get, she got to a place, she found an extra large T-shirt, put it on, uh, washed her clothes, took a shower, washed, washed the t-shirt, put it back in the, the, you know, hand me down thing, put her clothes back on, and, and walked the next day. And she took any, any food. She cook, she took out of the community kitchens. And people like me who heard her story and was like, well, I'll buy you dinner. And maybe we were all chumps. I don't know. But so, but I saw her, you know, you, you, I say you had this cohort, but some people get hurt, they get blisters, they take a couple days off on purpose. Some of them plan like, Hey, I'm gonna stay in this, uh, I forget, what's the name of the city with the running of the bulls? Could you pass right through it? Um, Pamona, Pamona, whatever. So you pass right through Pomona. And you can people stay there. Uh, if you time are right, you can see the running of the bulls too. But, um, that's probably really crowded. But, um, but you, but you can stay there for a couple days and see all the sites and stuff. So there's, there's you, you pass through a couple large cities along the way and a lot of people plan those as long-term recovery days and they just stay in a nice hotel, get a nice shower, have some privacy, and then get to see the sites and then they get back on the road. Um, so how many people actually finished was, was your original question? Um, I don't know. I, I, I don't know what the statistics are, but I know that, um, I didn't go as fast as I wanted to and I skipped five days. So, I mean, I skipped ahead because I, I did something special where my dad took a different trail from Madrid. So he flew to Madrid and he walked north and he left a week before I did. Mm-hmm. And I left from France. And I walked and I say, I walked th this way and we were gonna meet halfway and then walk to the a hundred mile mark and then my mom was gonna bring my son in. Wow. And my dad and I and my son were gonna walk the last a hundred miles and my mom was gonna take taxis from each hostel to hostel and meet us at the next hostel. Yeah. Cause she didn't wanna want. So we did that. But then my dad got really hurt. Got really bad blisters and, uh, social medicine in Spain. The doctors for free were looking at it and like, Hey, you need to stop walking for a week. So he, um, stayed. He stayed, stayed put at a friend of mine house. I had a friend in Spain, so he flew to Bill Bao, stayed there for a week, recovered. Meanwhile, I, I, I kept walking and I didn't make it to the a hundred mile. I wasn't gonna make it to the a hundred mile place in time to meet my son. So I got on a train and skipped a hundred miles, and so I only walked 400 miles. So I got there and then my dad flew down and we met my son and all three of us walked the last a hundred miles together. Which was really cool. Um, but so you can, you can plan all these things and do all these things and, and, and you know, initially I was like, ah, I can do this in like three weeks. I'm a ranger. I, I've, I've walked, you know, I've carried heavier rucksacks, I've walked farther. And, and then, uh, and I had to, someone along the trail was like, why are you carrying so much stuff? And I was like, well, I mean, I haven't used most of it. He is like, well, I mean, And, and by the way, if you don't feel like carrying something that day, you don't have to carry it. What are you trying to prove? Who are you trying to prove it to? Some, some random person, right? And I was like, no, you're right. You know, I, I mean, there's no shame in this. I'm not trying to, I'm, it's me against myself and what am I trying to do and why am I here? And so you get to thinking and, and, and when I say people don't really know what they're there, therefore, and they don't know what they're gonna get out of this. There's, there's so many books written about this and so many vlogs on YouTube and stuff like this, but you, uh, you know, there's, there's guys that just finished medical school and they don't know what they're gonna specialize in. There was a woman who was just chosen by the Anglican Church to be one of the first five women to be a Anglican priest in the uk and she didn't know if she wanted that burden to be, you know, to have that, you know, misogyny, you know? Mm-hmm. Women, me and the priesthood or whatever. She didn't wanna know if she wanted to do that, so she went on this, this thing. People go for all kinds of religious reasons. People go, they broke up for their boyfriend, they just got divorced. There's a lot of romantic. Relationship issues that people get through on this trail too, and there are people from. Literally everywhere around the world there, there's eight Koreans and Japanese and they're every, everywhere from Europe, there's people from Africa, there's uh, you know, Russians, there's, uh, all of course South Amer, everywhere from South America and, and the United States and Canada, they're all walking this trail together. English is the common language, surprisingly enough, even though you're in Spain, cuz everyone around the world knows a little bit of English and everyone, all the hostels and restaurants pretty much speak English. And a lot of the signs are in English just because of that. Um, and, and, uh, you, I mean, I met, I met so many people. It was crazy. I met my wife there, my current wife, um, and uh, And, uh, you just get to know all these people. You get to sit down and talk and figure out what's important to them and realize, you know, you, you, how little you are as an American in the world and how much, how many, how much other stuff is out there to learn and, and people learn from, and everyone's got their opinions and everyone's wrong and right. And, and, uh, and it's, it's really, it's super eye-opening and interesting. I mean,

James: 25:07

It does sound rather special from the perspective of people have been doing this for centuries. Right? And it's a global phenomenon. And already from what you described, there's a huge diversity of people there and motives there and, um, experiences that people have. Um, I, I want to come to maybe some of the goals or thoughts about goals you had when you started and how that turned out. But I'm stuck on something that's much more pragmatic in between that. I'll ask you first, which is, you mentioned planning for some time thinking about shoes and rux and what you'd put in it. What ended up, if you can still recall, being the most practical things that you had? With you for anyone who might be thinking about doing it, what would be your advice in terms of, you know, some, uh, really useful trip planning activities? Uh, I, I'm curious about what you actually ended up carrying with you and having with you that you really felt best about, or, or worst about that you jettison for that matter, but

Randy: 26:06

mostly what you kept with you. You know, I went back and forth over at whether I should bring a computer or a tablet or something. Yeah. Yep. And, uh, I really practiced. With my phone. Uh, and, and this was in 2018, so smartphones were pretty advanced by then. Now, now even more so this is before TikTok. Mm-hmm. Uh, but, but they did have YouTube. There's, there's some, there's a few blogs, vlogs out there where people were posting every day. There's definitely a lot of people that were making blogs and posting on blogs every day. So I had planned on doing that, and I didn't do it as much as I thought I would, but I did do it. I have a blog. I still have a blog out there somewhere. I have to find it if anyone's interested. Um, with pictures too. Nice pictures. Um, so I ended up getting a phone, uh, bringing my phone cause I wanted to write cause I wa I wanted to be a writer. When I got out I thought, I got one of these that was a lot lighter and so to hold my phone cause I'm, mm-hmm. Is this a want or a need? I don't know. Yeah. And uh, and then I bought a portable mini typewriter that blood Bluetooth that folded up to the size of my fingers and then you could unfold it so I could actually type. So I didn't have to do the, cause I'm not an expert at that. And, uh, and, and so that's what I brought for that. I brought a, you have to po have a good poncho that can fit over your backpack cuz uh, it, there was a whole week where it rained and then there was a whole week where it was hot as hell. So especially when you're going through the planes. Um, and then, uh, I brought two pairs of clothes. I actually brought four pairs of clothes, but I, but I, you can get away with two beers of clothes almost. I didn't expect this, but every hostel I stayed in had a washer and, and a dryer. For the most part, almost every single one. And you can, there's books where you can get, and they, it'll tell you, you can make, you can call, make reservations if you want, if you're really worried about that. And you can see what they have as far as washers and dryers and breakfast and things like, and, and dinner and things like that, and how much it costs and, uh, all. And then you can also get onto websites where people leave comments, you know, worst place ever. Best place ever. Whatever. And so you can see all that and you can make, you can make your reservations a couple months out in most cases. Um, so you can have the whole thing planned if you think you're gonna make it right. Um, that's a good point. There's a lot of stuff that can happen online, but most of them, most of them won't take, uh, you know, won't take the payment online. They'll, you can make the reservation and if you don't confirm the day before, they just cancel you. Yep. So there's a lot of, lot of, lot of flub and fluff in there cuz they know that some people get hurt and some people don't quit and things like that. So, um, but you can plan the whole thing. So two pairs

James: 28:55

of clothes is what you ended up with because you can wash'em along the way your particular needs, uh, included. Having a, the phone and the typewriter and anyway, people are gonna have their phone because that's just the way of the world these days. Um, how. You know, your dad ended up with bad blisters. Was that because his boots weren't worn in and he wasn't used to walking? Or I assume you didn't have that problem because you're used to, uh, death marches or long marches, I

Randy: 29:19

should say. I thought I would have less of a problem, but what happened was I hadn't really worn my shoes going up and down hills. Ah, and my, my, my, um, second toe is a little bit longer than my big toe, and it hit. It kept hitting the end. So by week, by by day 10, I had a big blister on the end of that sucker. Yeah. Uh, but that was like the only blister I got. Um, and if I had to do it ahead of time, I'd make sure the shoes fit a little bit better. My dad, who's not used to walking like this, I, I would say that I would say that everybody gets blisters except my wife didn't. So I would say that my, uh, my about 90. At least 90% of the people get blisters, uh, probably by day 10 at the very, uh, latest. Um, or the very, very, the very latest. Um, and then by the end it's a suck fest of popping blisters every night and just sucking it up to the last week, uh, um, to get through it and then ha be, you know, getting, being the champion when you get to the end with your feet, all bloody and stuff. Now they have. They have clinics all on the way that are free, that are there just for the pilgrims that are professional blister poppers and, and, and help you out and to, to get you through the end. So they have the medical care there is, is great. And my dad, I mean, my dad was like, tried to pay and they're like, we're Spain. We don't pay for medical care. He's stupid American. And they, you know, put him, push him on his way. So, Um, that's, that's not a, that's not a problem. So, yeah. So I had packed the, the, the advice is 10% of your what you weigh. Yeah. Which for women's not gonna be a whole lot. Right. Uh, and I packed 30 pounds and I should have packed by the 10% thing. I should have packed probably 20 pounds. And what I ended up was ab with about 15 pounds and after about the second day, I met my wife, who's my girl who was my, was nothing to me at that time, but she ended up being my girlfriend a year later. Um, and she had a little kind of purse thing over her back and that was it when I met her. And I said, where's, yeah? She's like, oh, I shipped it. I shipped it in the taxi because, um, because I wasn't ready for it. So, cuz she just was like, I don't, I didn't think I could get over the mountain with it. And I didn't want to go through that. So I shipped it and now I, now the second day I'm like, I decided to ship it again. And I was like, really? She's like, you know, and that's, she's the one that told me, Hey, you don't have anything to prove to anyone. You know, if you're hurting, you should probably think about shipping it until you're better and you're used to walking and then you can start taking it. So I did ship it the next two days, cuz that fir my fir the first day is like the, one of the hardest, it's all uphill for like, 75% of the day, and then the, it's, the 25% is the same distance. It's just all downhill. And so it's faster. And there's this movie called The Way that Amelia Estevez produced and directed and his father, uh, Martin Sheen star in. And it starts out the very beginning is someone walking up on the first day of the Camino walking up in this lightning storm and dying, getting killed by lightning on the Camino. Not a very great beginning. It's a very famous movie, right? Because everyone watches the everything they can on the and thing, and almost everyone's seen it. And then Martin Sheen is a retired businessman of some sort. He's on the golf course and he gets the call that his son died. And he has to come pick up the remains in France. Mm. So he comes and picks up the remains and he doesn't understand what his son was doing here. He doesn't know what the Camino was. They didn't communicate very well, obviously. And he's getting briefed by the policeman, the French policeman, and talking about what the Camino is and everything like that. And he, and he gives him his son's backpack. And his son's ashes. And so it's, the father decides to walk the Camino and leave his son's ashes along the trail, and that's the whole point of the movie. But, The big piece of that is that in my life and my wife's life, cuz we both left on the same day, we're in the same cadre, for lack of a better word, is the first day was the worst storm like ever. And it was raining all day. And when we got to the ver, I mean, I was literally like 50 meters from the top of the mountain before we went downhill. The hail, hail, hail started and lightning. And, and everyone, everyone was running, trying to, trying to, I don't know where they're running too. There was no trees, but there's, they started running past me and they're like, it's just like the movie. We're all gonna die. It was hilarious. And I just start, I just, I couldn't run anyway, so I just walking through it and I, I, I, I remember this one, this one girl pushed up against my back, so I would take the brunt of the hail. I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, there's hell. I was like, yeah, I know. I could feel it. Anyway, it was, uh, it was, it was, and, and, and, uh, Erica, my wife was also on the trail, and she remembers that day and she's like, why did I do this? Why am I here? I mean, I'm sure there was so many people thinking that it's like, what was I thinking? This is the dumbest thing ever. And then, but then every, every day after that, when we went somewhere, If we met someone who was before us, or someone from behind us caught up to us or something like that, especially the guys in front of us, if we caught up with somebody who took a day off or something. Mm-hmm. Like, oh yeah, the, this, there was this really bad storm on our day two or day three. And I was like, yeah, it was day one for us and we were at top of the mountain. We're the late story. We almost died. So I don't wanna hear your wimp attitude. Uh, but anyway, so That's true. That's too funny. It was

James: 35:35

so, yeah, I, I can imagine. You know, if you're not used to being outside, uh, for the better part of the day, that's also a very strange feeling to get used to. I remember the first Ultra I did a hundred k, just the sensation of being outside and walking from sun up till sundown was utterly unlike anything I had done up until that point. Because right, you're inside, you're, you're, you're, Your, your life is not meant, um, or is not actually practiced for most of us outside all day. So just the, the practice of being outside and hiking for a big part of the day. I'm curious, what caused you, do you think, to um, lose so much weight? Was the food not good? Did you miss meals or is it just you're on your feet for that long and you're not, what was the, did it happen well sort of gradually ever the whole time? Or what, what was the deal

Randy: 36:25

with that? Um, I met my wife this as a weight loss cure. I, I do actually, I'm, I'm planning on writing a book about how, um, people can train for the Army for this. Oh. And specifically for a Green Berets, because you're immersed in Spanish. So if you wanna learn Spanish and you have like dual lingo, and you say the language of the trail was English though. It is, but, but everywhere you go is speaking Spanish. Right? Okay. They speak English if you want, but you can also speak your Spanish. Right. Okay. It's, it's freaking Spain, dude. Just checking, speaking English everywhere. Universal language is English. Everyone can, can, can agree on. I mean, I don't think most people in, you know, Japan and, and Korea are not like, I wanna learn Spanish because it's the language of the future. And, you know, they're, they're thinking that they learn English cuz the computer and tech and stuff is all in English for the most part. They go to school in the United States, they don't go to school in Spain. So that's why it's the universal language. But wait, how does this help

James: 37:27

you train for the

Randy: 37:29

Green Beret? Oh, cause Green Berets have to learn a language. So you can come to the, come through the, to the Q course. I didn't know that. Already learning, already speaking Spanish if you want, or if you wanna focus on another language for a month where you got eight hours a day to listen to taped recordings on the language. And you can meet someone from the girl from France who's walking next to you and Chuck chat with her, um, Amy and, and so, so special forces and green brace specifically, not necessarily basic training, but if you need to lose the weight, then this is a good way to do it too. You know, you'll ruck marching, ma Marching with a backpack is one of the pivotal. Uh, physical elements of any elite training in rangers, seals, green Berets, delta force, all of that. And so, you know, you're gonna be carrying a larger backpack, like 50 pounds, but you can bring 50 pounds, ship 30 to the hostel, and carry 20. And then after a week you can start carrying 30 and after a week you start carrying 40. You know, you can, you can escalate. Can I just say it seems somehow

James: 38:27

in ous to take what was a religious pilgrimage and say, I'm gonna use it for potential, getting ready for special forces training. I, I totally get it. And I accept everything you're saying. It just strikes

Randy: 38:37

me as strange. But however, you know, you get yourself in the right mindset to be a, a ninja warrior commando, and you make good choices after you become a ninja warrior commando. I like

James: 38:47

that. So you, uh, let's talk about your mindset, uh, as we come to the end of this fascinating description. Um, you know, you talked about potentially having a variety of different, uh, objectives in mind when you started out from a little bit of a fitness, uh, aspect, getting yourself back in shape to challenging yourself to what sounds like also a bit of an emotional journey, going through, uh, different things in your private life and your professional life, and then the, the time to think element H how well. Or, or how did your experience play out in terms of what you thought you were going there for and what you ultimately ended up getting out of it, besides your future spouse, which is a significant benefit, but in terms of the journey you had in mind when you started, how did it play out in practice?

Randy: 39:34

All right, let's talk about, let's go back a couple questions, uh, to, so that I'll answer this too, but Okay. You know how, why did I lose the weight? All right, so that's right. Was the food sucking? Not everyone loses the weight. Because you, once again, it's about choices. You know, you can eat, you can buy as much food as you want to eat, you know, you're burning calories. I mean, if you, if you go by my, my step counter, you know, I was burning like two, you know, 2000 calories a day or something. I mean, it was whatever. I it. Once you do the Camino and Ha with your, with your Fitbit, you'll never match that again, ever. Because you, you know, you walked 25 miles today, how, when's the next time you're gonna walk 25 miles when you go back to your real life? Exactly. Never. And then if you, for your weekly averages, you w you know, hey, you walked 140 miles this week, you know, you're never gonna match that again unless you're ultra-marathoner and you do like six a week or something like that. So, um, and by the way, I did, there was somebody who, in my opinion, probably didn't, uh, didn't get it. But he was there to run it. And he would run, he would run 20, he would, he would run the 20 miles a day, like a marathon a day, or you know, about a marathon. And he'd stay in a ho and then he, so he'd get it done in like, Couple, three, four hours as opposed to six or eight, you know, whatever, whatever the, whatever the, this, if he was running 15 miles, he maybe ran it in three hours or whatever, while everyone else is doing it six to eight. And then he, you know, he'd, he'd be there ahead of everyone before the, but he had three hours to waste before the hospital opened. And then he would, uh, you know, wash his clothes and get ready for the next time. I think sometimes he ran, you know, a double shift and maybe he ran the 30 miles that the next day. And, uh, I, he, I, I remember seeing him pass past me a couple times. So there's some people that do that. Um, there's, there's certain paths you can go where you can bike it. And there's a very, I think, I think it's called Push Me. There's a book and a, a video or a movie they made, and it was actually in the movie theaters for a couple, uh, months called Push Me and there's a guy in a wheelchair and his buddy that pushed him. Wow. And he pushed him. And, and of course people who, who saw him go by or walked up on him, cuz they probably caught up to him more than often than not. They helped him, especially up the hills. So they would, they, he, they would meet people because they would help him push him up this hill or, you know, for a distance and then someone else would come along and, but it's, uh, it basically, he did the whole Camino on in his wheelchair and his buddy helped him. So, um, but anyway, as far as losing the weight, I mean, If you eat only if you eat your dinners at the hostel, which is whatever they're serving that night, and you eat your breakfast at the hostel, which is some kind of continental breakfast, which is like, you know, some breakfast or some, some bread, some jam usually, uh, and maybe a piece of fruit. And then you eat lunch on the way at one of these. Casino bar, you know, not casino, casino, but they call them bars or casinos, and they're not real bars. They're cafes. Yes. For lack of a better word. You get your coffee, your cafe, and then, uh, you know, a tortilla or something like that. It's not a lot of calories compared to what you're burning. Yes. Now you can spend as much as money as you want. Getting whatever you want. So if you go there with an idea that you want to lose weight and you watch what you eat and don't, don't go outside of what they're feeding you in the, with, with, uh, the normal things, you'll lose. I'm almost positive you're, you're gonna lose weight. Okay. Um, so that's the thing. Also, when I met my wife after about the first week she had, she was vegan and I was always trying to lower my cholesterol. And, uh, she suggested a book to me that ve uh, going vegan might help you with my cholesterol. Once again, you don't have anything to do if you're not talking to someone. You're just walking and enjoying the scenery. You can also listen to a book on tape if you so desire. So I listened to the book in one day, uh, that she was called How Not To Die. And, uh, and I, I, uh, I said, well, it sounds like it's worth a try. So after the first week on the Camino, I said, Hey, I wanna go vegan. I'm just gonna eat what you eat. And so I did that and that also cut down my choices because while they're, it's not impossible to be vegan on the Camino. They have some things along the way. You, you have to really hunt'em out. So that helped a lot too, I'm sure. So that's how I lost weight. Um, the. So I wanted to get back in shape and I wanted to prove something to myself. And I felt like I did that I didn't complete the whole 500, I completed 400, probably four 20, and I did complete the last hundred. So I got my certificate, um, and I, and I didn't feel bad about it. I, yes, I, uh, uh, like I, but I did feel bad about it in the beginning cuz I was falling behind and I was like, oh man, I'm gonna have to walk, walk 30 miles tomorrow. Because I only walked 22 today and, and my, my, uh, wife is like, why? So, um, so it was nice to have a mentor, even though she didn't, she was, shouldn't start that way, uh, to kind of be a Jimmy cri cricket for my, my, my head. And then I did write while I was, I did write on my phone. And I had a lot of, uh, good ideas and I still have things that I haven't implemented that for. My notes and my short stories I wrote along the way. And it, and, uh, it also so happened while I was walking, I got an email that kind of changed my life. Um, it was an invitation to go to an editor, a course, to how to be an editor of books. Uh, and I, and it would cost a lot of money, but I also got an email. Right after that, that from the army that said, Hey, when you on your way out, we're gonna pay you this much money for your, your kind of, uh, bonus or whatever. And it was the same amount of money. And so I decided I would go to that editing course when I got out and I signed up for it right then. Uh, and then I went to the editing course. Um, three months before I got outta the, well, I was on terminal leave, which, which means they pay me my normal paycheck. It's just vacation days. I saved up mm-hmm. For three months. So I basically, um, they, uh, They let me go while I was on, still in the military getting my paycheck, but I was on my vacation days, so I went to the editing course and I became an editor and that's how I make my money now. So, and I get to travel where I want to and work when I want to and, and I'm very grateful that I made that decision and I made that decision on the Camino. So it's hard not to connect all that stuff. My wife, yes. My current, my current living. My current health, uh, to, to the, to not, to, not to connect at the Camino. It seems disingenuous. No, and it's

James: 46:43

hard not to see, you know, um, I don't wanna say fate, but there, there, you know, there a lot happened there from just that description and, uh, that little summary that you made. So to bring it home, I have, uh, more questions, but I'm sensitive that, you know, we've already talked for a while. Maybe what I would ask you as a final question, Randy, is this. For people who might be thinking about this themselves and asking themselves whether it's for them, what advice would you give to somebody who's evaluating and just wondering, Hey, is this something that I might wanna do? What would you suggest people either think about or do to get ready? Should they watch this movie or the guy die at the top of the mountain or not watch it? Um, What would you say? Yeah,

Randy: 47:28

it's, I mean, everyone, if you don't watch it, you'll be the only one who hasn't seen it. Like my wife who did. Um, but my wife watched all the YouTube videos, so she knew more about Theo than I did. Uh, I, I, I, I did, I didn't wa I, I wasn't watching YouTube videos back then, so I didn't even think about that. Uh, she's a little younger than me, so she's thought outside the box. Um, I would say, It was for me and for a lot of people I know. It was it. It was, it's a life changing experience. It's very freeing. I mean, when you have nothing to do but think, especially if you don't force yourself to occupy. Like I listen to one or two books on tape while I was doing it, but that doesn't encompass eight hours a day, six to eight hours a day for 30 days. You know, that's, that's a lot of time. I didn't listen to books that whole time, so I'm the, I'm just looking at the scenery and walking and ex breathing in fresh air. And someone would walk by and you're like, Hey, what's up? I, I saw you at the, yeah, I saw you too. Where are you from? Oh, yeah. And then we talk for like hour, half hour, two hours. And then one of us would realize that the other guy's going slower. And so, all right, well I'll talk to you later and take off and go his own pace and then. You'd be by yourself for an hour and a half, walking through the woods, walking through the plains, walking through the flower fields, wherever you are, walking through a little village with a church that's 500 years old, or a bridge that's, you know, 300 years old or whatever. And then someone else would, someone would be sitting there drinking water and you'd sit down next to'em and you'd have another talk and you both get up at the same time and walk for a little while and you learn about somebody else's life. And, um, Everybody. The first week, everybody's just like, yeah, I'm from Texas and I do this and I do that, and that's it. And then a week later you see that same guy and is like, and he is like, and then she left me and now I'm alone with my kids. Or, you know what I mean? I, I don't think that ever happened, but, but I did. I did see this, uh, I remem I got up so early cuz I'm, I did get up early. Every day, cuz I knew I was gonna be slow and I didn't want to be the last one in. So I'd get up at like five or six before anyone else woke up and I'd leave at least an hour before anyone else. And every day, these two German girls, I. At about seven or eight o'clock, they probably got up like two hours after I did. They were the first ones they pa every day. They passed me at about the same time and we say hi and, and then they'd pass me and I'd never see'em again until the next morning. And that happened for like a week. And then one day, one, only one jury girl, Vanessa. And I was like, Where's your friend? And then it was just like, oh, you know, she started crying and it all came out and she, she was a German girl that she met. They weren't friends. They were two single girls. Lots of single women that feel safe, that feel safe on this trail, that traveled by themselves. There's a lot of single women on this trip. I don't know if I'm promoting it now, but, um, but anyway, so this, she just kind of broke down and. She was here because she broke up with her boyfriend and she just wanted to be away. You know, she didn't want thinking of any relationships. And she met this single girl and they were friends and they walked the thing together. And then she met this guy, and now she's walking with the guy. Now she's alone. And I was like, wow, I'm really sorry. And then she, and then she, she, after she got it all out, We talked for a little bit more and she's like, she was fine. And she's like, okay, I'll see you later. And she, but uh, but I had a lot of that where people, about 10 days, maybe 15 at the max, they all, the real reason they're there and they never really faced it before comes out. And so I think this is, and this is why a lot of churches I think do this as well. There's also there, it was funny because my dad was 75 and I was 50 when we walked it, and there's people. I saw couples that were 77 and 78 that were walking it together. I saw a father and a son walk it, the whole thing together, and then they had, like in the middle of it, it, the father's, the grandfather, the father's father, and the grandfather's son died. Oh dear. And there was some legal work. They, they, they had known that he was sick. I guess he'd been sick for a while. But then they had to fill up, sign some legal papers. So they actually had to leave the Camino to go to the capitol, to the embassy so they could notarize paperwork, and then they came back and finished it. Um, there's one guy that walked at Barefoot or what, whatever religious reasons, what he felt that, that, that was his penance. There was one guy that pushed a wheelchair with all his worldly belong, a wheelbarrow with all his worldly belongings because he felt that's what he had to do to free himself. I didn't, I did not, I didn't do any of that. But there's everyone, I feel like if you go there and learn the lesson, and I always say that, you know, you learn, learn what the purpose of you doing it is, is not to, it's not to beat everyone and be the fastest and be the hardest. Like, I kind of started that way cuz a, a friend of mine had done it the year before. Um, if you don't look at it that way, you're gonna learn something about yourself and. To prepare for it. My dad, uh, walked three to six miles a day for a couple months beforehand. I did nothing. My girlfriend, uh, week before a week or so before she left, she walked, she did two long walks of like eight miles apiece and she always smoked me like she woke up two or three hours after me. And we always got there at the same time. Cuz I was, I was so slow, cuz of my knees. So I'd say it's, it is for anyone. Obviously, the more you prepare, especially to get, make sure your shoes fit the shoes that you're actually gonna wear, I think I would suggest, that's probably the most important part. Don't over pack. Don't overthink it. You, you know, two, maybe three, if you're really scared that you're not gonna get it washed and dried in time. But really two sets and I brought three pairs of socks. You know what I did bring? What's that? My wife. My wife thought it was the stupidest thing, but I, I thought, I think everyone appreciated them. I got off Amazon. I bought 50 little American flag pins. And when I, when I talked to someone on the road and made friends with them, I'd say, Hey, I got something for you. And I'd give them, and then they'd proudly pin it onto their backpack and they'd walk with it. And then every time they saw me, it was like they'd point to their pin and it was just a little thing to hand out to everybody, you know? And my, my wife was like, they just do that cause they, they're polite. I was like, I think they really enjoyed having a memory of the Camino. That's nice.

James: 54:25

I like that. Um, well, thanks Randy for sharing us what was also a very personal journey. It helps explain, uh, some of what you're doing right now and some of what your life looks like right now. I didn't know so many threads tied back to that. So interesting, interesting discussion for

Randy: 54:44

us today. Thanks. Yep. All right, everyone. Talk to you guys next time. You've just listened to The Passionately Wrong podcast with James Bellerjeau and Randy Surles. If you like this episode, follow us on your podcast platform or subscribe on YouTube. Join us each week to help you make better decisions by challenging your assumptions. And check out all our episodes at Passionatelywrong.com.