Even If He Doesn't: Trusting God Through Chronic Pain and Illness with Carolyn Dale Newell

What happens to your faith when chronic pain shows up uninvited and refuses to leave? In this episode of the Why She Trusts God series, I sit down with best-selling author and speaker Carolyn Dale Newell.

Carolyn opens up about trusting God as her spiritual flame flickered out during two years of debilitating pain, and how she fought — devotion by devotion — to resurrect hope when suffering and hopelessness threatened to take over completely.

Carolyn recently released her newest 30-day devotional, Embers of Endurance — a book born from her own harrowing journey through severe scoliosis, spinal fusion surgery, and the slow, disorienting grief of losing her health.

We cover a lot of ground in this conversation: why grieving the loss of your health is not only normal but necessary, how physical suffering becomes a three-front battle against your body, emotions, and faith, and why the enemy's favorite weapon in chronic illness is the what if. Carolyn shares how the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego gave her a powerful reframe — trading what if thinking for the bold, surrendered declaration of even if.

We also dig into Philippians 3:10 together and land on something I believe is true with everything in me: suffering creates an intimate, experiential knowing of Christ that nothing else can.

If you or someone you love is walking through chronic pain, chronic illness, or the long, wearying wait for healing, this episode was made for you.

Resources mentioned: 📖 Embers of Endurance on Amazon: https://a.co/d/01xNHlBl 🌐 Carolyn's website: amountainoffaith.com ▶️ Carolyn on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC126VS7qlK8MFwJgdyiqCQQ 👥 Facebook Group – A Mountain of Faith Women's Ministry: https://www.facebook.com/groups/140942697610835/

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Transcript

The Why She Trusts God Series is back, and my guest today is Carolyn Dale Newell, author of her newest book, Embers of Endurance. 

And here's a little something about her. Carolyn is a best-selling and award-winning author and dynamic speaker who empowers women to break free from emotional strongholds and embrace lives transformed by faith. She has published eight books, including the beloved Guide Dog Tales devotional series and Faith That Walks On Water, a devotional journal. Carolyn's writing is infused with depth, encouragement, and the wisdom gained from her personal journey. 

I'm thrilled to have her as a guest. Welcome, Carolyn. 

Carolyn:

Thank you. I'm thrilled to be here. 

Terri:

Well, Carolyn, please provide some background on your latest 30-day devotion book, Embers of Endurance, and the story behind it. 

Carolyn:

Yes. So about four years ago, uh, I had a backache, which was not anything unusual. Um, I deal with... I've dealt with backaches on and off. And that day, I was just busy. I didn't have time to, you know, use the heating pad or anything, and that's where I was headed after I did my last chore for the night, which was to go outside and water my flowers. 

And as I was out there watering the flowers, I, I was praying off the pain. I was praying, you know, "No weapon formed against me shall prosper." Mm. And I was just really intense in that. And as I kept going, I could feel the pain was starting to get worse. And when I hit the last flower pot, suddenly a pain went down from my back into my hip and into my knee. 

And if you've had sciatica, that is what that pain was. But it was caused by scoliosis, and that it took them four months to figure that out. Uh, within a few weeks, I was using a cane to n- to get around, just to get around the house, and, uh, I was screaming in agony every time those nerve shocks went through me. 

So from there, nine months later, I had a spinal fusion surgery with 18 screws and two rods- And when I woke up from the surgery, that pain was gone, but my body did not feel normal. So I had to deal with, uh, complications of nerve damage, and neuropathy, and restless leg syndrome, and things like that, which brought me down a road of discouragement, 'cause the healing was so slow. 

The pain and all the complications. And so because of what I went through, as a writer, I wanted, I had to write something to encourage people when they go through their chronic pain and illness. Because it is definitely not just a physical journey, but one that is also spiritual too. 

Terri:

Yeah. Every day is just k- kind of a, a, a torture. And I know you said that at that time you were on fire for the Lord and developing your ministry. And so that pain and illness, the discouragement, the depression diminished your spiritual flame. 

Carolyn:

Yes, it sure did. Um, pain and s- and sickness, physical suffering, and emotional pain, like depression and stuff, that is very hard to deal with because it hits you. You know? It's, it's different than financial suffering or, you know, suffering in a relationship or with your kids or something, because it's affecting your body so much that you, you can't necessarily do the normal activities of the day. And when, when you go on so long, the doubt begins to chip away at your faith. 

Terri:

Mm. That, that's a for sure thing. So in each devotion you reveal your story, and I felt that throughout the book you describe the ways you fought to resurrect your hope. Um, what was behind that, that feeling compelled to show others how to resurrect hope for themselves? 

Carolyn:

Well, hope is something you do not wanna lose. Mm-hmm. And I think of Mary and Martha when I think of hopelessness. Um, they, they had lost all hope. There was no hope that their brother was gonna be resurrected, at least that's what they thought. And, um, we don't want to lose our hope. 

But I look at the things that they did when Jesus did show up. And when he showed up, they both went to him and said, "If you had been here, our brother would not have died." I don't think, I know I don't, go to Jesus and say, "Look at me. If you would heal me, this wouldn't be happening." But He knows our thoughts, and He did not rebuke them. 

So I think they had an honest conversation with Jesus, and I think when we can do that, that will help us. You know, we want to pray, "Heal me" all the time. That's our prayer. Heal me- Yeah ... help me. You know, g- give me my joy and peace back because I lost joy and peace, and then hope was, like, right behind that. 

And, uh, we need to hang on to that hope. Um, the other thing is they still worshiped Him. Even though they were disappointed, even though they were discouraged, they still worshiped Him, and that is very important for us to continue to do, is to worship the Lord. And even, even if we can't get to church, you know? 

Turn on some worship music, open your Bible. Keep worshiping the Lord. Also, um, I didn't discover this till after the fact, after... I mean, I still have some chronic pain and stuff, but after I came out of that season of very down and out discouragement and depression, that, um, the Bible speaks in Romans 8 about hope, and it, it clearly says, "Hope that is not seen is not hope." 

And to us, that's what we're looking for. Okay, I don't see my healing coming, so I lose hope. But if we saw it coming, it wouldn't be hope. Right. The... And that's what the Bible says. And so we need to hope because if we see it, that's not hope. 

And we need, it says we need to hope patiently, and that is the word we all struggle with because my healing was very slow, and s- that is true for many people. And some people, you know, like myself, will never be totally healed.

 So the processes are very slow, and it's hard to hold on to hope, but you have to hold on to the hope that is in Jesus Christ and in the Word of God. 

Terri:

Yeah. Hope. Hopelessness is the absolute worst place to be. .. You know, Paul says, "Fan into flame the fire," you know? And I believe that applies to your hope. Um, you gotta do anything to fan those embers, those dying embers. Yes. And one way is worshiping the Lord. 

But just, it's that honest conversation saying, "Okay, God, why should I have hope? What, what am I supposed to be hoping for?" And I think if you ask those questions, God, you know, the Lord will bring something to mind. And I think as long as you stay in communication with God, hope is not dead. , 

You were talking about Mary, and Martha, and Lazarus, and I, I just wrote, why did He wait? You know? And that's the thing. In the suffering, they were suffering, um, grieving. You're suffering. And Jesus is waiting. That's what it feels like. Yes. Jesus is waiting, and you're, you're saying, "I, I, I don't understand," ? Uh, "Why can't we just get this thing moving along?" 

Carolyn: 

And it does not mean that He doesn't love us, because the Bible really tells us He loved Mary, Martha, and Lazarus. Mm. And when they contacted Him, their, their contact was to come heal him, and He didn't come. But the reason He waited was for the glory of God. Mm-hmm. And sometimes we have to realize that our suffering and the length of time we suffer is for the glory of God. 

Terri:

Yes. Yes. All right. Now, in one of the devotions, you write you were fighting three battles: the physical, emotional, and spiritual. And you touched on that a little bit. Um, so one of the things you said was, "Confusion arose in the midst of pain, along with grief over the loss of normal health." How or why did you trust God during the physical, emotional, and spiritual assault? 

Carolyn:

The enemy will come in and plant seeds of doubt. Yes. And the only thing we can do is to trust God through that time. Don't let your physical limitation become a mental limitation. Because what I, what I mean by that is it will... You will start becoming discouraged.  

You will start getting down, and, and despair, and disappointed. And don't let that happen, because you are on your way to a very dark place when you do that. Mm-hmm And it's very important that we will renew our minds, renewing our minds daily. 

Taking those thoughts captive that cause us to go into that. We, and, and it goes back to the same thing with the hope. You know, we have to hope. We have to trust God. But the whole time, the enemy is trying to say, "Look what He's allowed to happen to you. Are you going to trust Him? Are you going to still serve Him?" 

And you're laying there in bed in pain, and you feel like your ministry is lost. And with it, that was what was happening to me. And I, I'm like, "Yes, yes, I am. Yes, I am," you know? But he continues to bombard you every day. So physical battles are not just physical alone. 

Terri:

Yeah. Well, I had that written down, that quote, "Don't let physical limitations become mental limitations." You said we need the mind of Christ in pain and suffering. And from personal experience, I know that, when I am overwhelmed with what's going wrong with me or something that I can't fix in somebody else's life, um, especially because I care too much, I think I'm, I need to fix it for them because I can't stand their hurting and, and what they're going through. 

I, I've been on the floor, on the floor saying, "God, , how, how can I trust you with this? What's going on here?" And it all boils down to the fact that everything else around me will fail. Systems, people, , - Even doctors ... yeah, even doctors. They'll all fail. 

The only thing that I have to hang onto is God. Amen. I, , push everything away, the only thing that's left that I know that is true and real in my life is God, and that comes from a history of faithfulness with Him. 

And, you know, God says over and over again, and Jesus did, too, "Remember. Remember me. Remember. Remember what I did for you." It, it's, you know, it's plastered all over, but in those times of hurting, we're so desperate and desolate, I think we just gotta go down to what is the one thing- That is keeping me grounded, that grounds me, and for me, it's God. And it sounds like it's God for you, too. 

Carolyn:

Oh, definitely. And let me add about the grief about your physical, um, situation or limitation. I, I am blind, and I didn't lose all my sight at one time. I had sight as a child. I was never able to drive. And, um, my slight, my, my sight... Let's do that over. My sight diminished very slowly until I reached age 50, and then the decline of my vision was very drastic. 

And so at that point, I had to get with the Department for the Blind and learn how to do braille, a computer with speech software, and using a white cane and later a guide dog. So one of the things I learned from them was that it is natural to grieve the loss of something physical, like your eyesight, your hearing- . your ability to walk. 

If someone, you know, is in a accident and loses an arm, it's normal to grieve that. So I did know that going into this thing. So when I was barely able to walk, I knew that the sadness over that was normal, and I'm thankful that I already knew that because that could really throw you even further into a depressed state if you don't know that that is normal. 

Terri:

Yes. You actually go into what, is called chronic sorrow, and you never move through it because you're not able to recognize and, and work through it and find some level of acceptance as to your new normal. And, um, a new normal, that, that's not w- it... 

You can get there, but it takes time. Yes. Because otherwise, it's despair. Yes. It's either acceptance or despair, and despair is only gonna lead you to hopelessness. You know, acceptance is slow, just like, the process of grieving and healing, but it's an emotional healing versus the physical healing. 

Carolyn:

You say that so well because that, that describes me. That, that was what I went through because I didn't like my new normal after the surgery. I thought everything was, was going to be- fixed during the surgery. I was gonna come out better than ever, and . It took me a long time to accept that this is, this is the way things are gonna be. 

It took me a long time to accept that healing is slow, 'cause I still kept hoping for an improvement, but things only improved to, you know, a certain degree. And so that was a discouraging time and a hopeless time for me, and that is what I went through. And yeah, it does take a long time to get there. 

Terri:

Hmm. Well, something else you wrote about that I love, you said, "Waiting isn't passive, it's active." And I've said that, too, and believe it. But in the moment, waiting feels like stagnation as God works and moves. And you, uh, quoted Philippians 3:10, and I think it's out of the New King James version. And it says, "That I may know him," God, or, uh, "That I may know Jesus and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings." And so in suffering, this verse, I think, is really powerful. So you go first and explain how this verse anchored you in trusting God, and then I'll share my reason. 

Carolyn: 

Okay. To know him does not mean to just know about him. It means I want to know him experientially. I want to have a relationship with him. So we have to understand that. And the power, the resurrection power, when we are saved, we have that power within us in the, in the Holy Spirit. 

And we forget that when we are feeling so horrible. We forget what, what we have within us, 'cause the Holy Spirit indwells us at the moment of salvation. But the part about partaking in the sufferings of Jesus, it doesn't have to be persecution to do that. Any suffering can do that. 

And what happens when we suffer, we don't like to suffer. Yeah. But we get to have a special closeness with Jesus that we never will experience apart from suffering. And there are moments- That when He, you know, tenderly reaches out to us as we're praying or we are reading the Bible and we find a word that is like, "Oh, that is what I needed." 

And those are the moments that are so precious. And I so often thought, because the, the pain was primarily in my back, I so often thought of what He had to endure and that cat o' nine tails- Oh you know, as they whipped Him. And- Yes ... the, the pieces of bone on those, on that cat o' nine tails would tear His flesh and everything. 

And I would think, "He endured so much more than me, and here I am, you know, whining and complaining, and He did that for me." And it's something very precious about those times when we can go to that mode of thought. 

Terri:

Yes. And listeners, I'm telling you, I did not coordinate with Carolyn, but- what I wrote in my response to this question is almost the same thing. So I like the New Living Translation version, which says, "I want to know Christ and experience the mighty power that raised Him from the dead. I want to suffer with Him, sharing in His death." 

And I too, I wrote, "Suffering creates an intimate experiential knowing." And so it was in suffering that I came close to God and to Jesus, more so than I ever had before. I mean, losing the strength to walk and to speak properly isolated me from the world. And so, no longer distracted, no longer having an agenda, it brought me to the feet of Jesus. 

And that's how I came to know, really know the Lord. And I believe we can know God on four levels, but the deepest and richest level is that intimate experiential knowing born from suffering. And so this goes with what you said in the book, that in the waiting, our character is being transformed to look more like Christ if we participate with God. 

All right. Give us your thoughts on fear and suffering. You write that fear taunts us, and I wholeheartedly agree. I see fear as a stalker, a bully. It's always reminding us to what if, awfulize, or expect the worst. And Carolyn, wow, how do we stand firm against fear? 

Carolyn:

Wow, that's, that's a great question. Um, for God does not give us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. So that fear is not coming from God. It's coming from the enemy. It's coming from our flesh. And we need a sound mind to deal with it. 

 And it says God gives us that sound mind. That, you know, that is also a fruit of the spirit when it comes to, you know, discipline. Uh, we have to make sure we take thoughts captive, and that we, I touched on this earlier, renew our minds- Mm-hmm ... daily. 

And we do that in the word of God and in prayer. And we have to do that. We can't stop doing that. Um, another thing I found that really helped me was the story of the three Hebrews in Daniel chapter 3- Mm-hmm ... when they were facing the fiery furnace because they would not bow down to Nebuchadnezzar's image. 

And they did not ask what if. Yeah. And like you said, fear causes us to ask what if. You know, when something happens to our bodies, that is a very fearful time. 'Cause like you and I have both gone through seasons of not being able to walk and experiencing, um, loss of normal human function, you know, with you not being able to speak as well, and then I've had to deal with blindness and different things. 

So they said, they told Nebuchadnezzar, the three Hebrews did, "We, Go- our God will deliver us, but even if he does not, we will not worship your statue." And I took those words, "But even if." Mm. And I to- I said, "I'm going to quit asking what if." And I try to live this out daily. No what ifs, but even if. But even if this horrible thing happens, God is with me. God will see me through. He has a plan. Mm. And that's very encouraging for me, and I hope someone else can, can get a hold of that and that it would help them. 

Terri:

Yeah. I, I wonder- How many people think it's either faith or fear. You either, you, if you have one, you don't have the other. And I, I don't think that's true. I think, you can have faith in the fear, and you said something about that. 

Carolyn:

Yes, because I was one of those people at one time. But no, no, you, you can have fear. That's why it says, "Do not fear" so many times in the Bible. Um, God knew we were fearful people. Right. So yeah, you can have fear, um, as long as you don't, uh, let it control you. Let the faith control you. Mm. Well- 'Cause fear will freeze you. 

Terri:

Yes. Yes. Faith, let faith control you, or fear will freeze you. That's great. That is. We came up with that, didn't we? I know, we did. No, you did. 

Well, Carolyn, this has been such a delight. I truly enjoyed our conversation. And so you can get more of Carolyn's wisdom by purchasing Embers of Endurance on amazon.com. I encourage you to visit her website, amountainoffaith.com, and she's also on YouTube. And I'll provide all the links in the episode description. Well, thank you, Carolyn, and thank you for listening. And after you visit Carolyn's website, amountainoffaith.com, go ahead and open another tab and visit my website, anchorednotanxious.com. All right. Until next time. 

Carolyn, this has been such a delight. I’ve truly enjoyed our conversation. Get more of Carolyn’s wisdom by purchasing Embers of Endurance on amazon.com. I encourage you to visit her Web site: https://amountainoffaith.com/. She is also on YouTube and I’ll provide all the links in the episode description. 

Thank you Carolyn, and thank you for listening. After you visit Carolyn’s website amountainoffaith.com, open another tab and visit mine, anchorednotanxious.com.

All right, until next time.

Amazon link for Embers of Endurance 

YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC126VS7qlK8MFwJgdyiqCQQ

My Facebook group A Mountain of Faith Women’s Ministry

https://www.facebook.com/groups/140942697610835/