Navigating Career Breaks and Relaunching: Insights from Carol Fishman Cohen- CEO, iRelaunch, TEDx speaker, Podcaster

How do you reenter the workforce and relaunch your career successfully? Carol Fishman Cohen provides insight from her personal experience and that of 1000's of women that iRelaunch has helped traverse this very path.  There are even ideas on how to prepare ahead for a potential career break.

Carol Fishman Cohen is a trailblazing advocate for relaunching careers after a break. Her own story reflects the struggles and challenges of re-entering the workforce after a long hiatus. After realizing the futility of submitting countless online applications, Carol took a bold step to connect with people and have meaningful conversations. This experience inspired her to help others navigate the often daunting process of relaunching their careers. Through her work, she empowers individuals to embrace networking and pursue alternative paths to re-enter the workforce. Carol's story serves as a beacon of hope for anyone facing the daunting task of relaunching their career.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi, sits down with the impressive Carol Fishman Cohen, co-founder of iRelaunch, to explore the ins and outs of relaunching your career after a break. From the importance of documenting milestones during career breaks to the impact of COVID, we discuss it all. We touch on the valuable skills relaunchers bring to the workplace, the significance of networking, and how to effectively manage time. Join us as we gain insights from Carol's personal journey and learn about the essential tools offered by iRelaunch to help you map out your own career relaunch. This is an episode you don't want to miss!

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I'm a former tech executive, a podcast host and  an entrepreneur. I work with Universities on Organizations to transition students to the corporate world   and building successful leadership pipelines ensuring a healthy financial future.

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Transcript

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:00:00]:

One thing that, a theme that runs through a lot of the stories is that it takes a long time, and it takes longer than people think to relaunch. And the idea that you're sitting there submitting hundreds of resumes online and hearing nothing, think. Not even a rejection, but nothing for a really long time, and realizing that you need to take that next Pete's hard step, which is actually to start having conversations with people and connecting with them in different ways. And how do you actually do that?

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:00:30]:

Peep. Welcome to the Women, Career and Life podcast. I'm your host, doctor Sarisha Kuchimanji, a former semiconductor tech executive at Texas Instruments, people. A speaker and an entrepreneur and definitely a working mom. Take a listen at this episode as I open the wall to bring back some classics, which have really resonated, not only with me, but with a lot of listeners. I hope this helps you in whatever stage you are in that you're trying to navigate at this time.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:00:59]:

Today, I have a guest speaker. She is a pioneer in the career reentry space, is a podcaster, has also done a TED Talk with over 3,600,000 views, And he's the author of the Harvard Business Review, the 40 year old intern. She also coleads and cofounded the peep Reentry task force with the Society of Women Engineers on the STEM space. I would like to welcome Carol Fishman Cohen. Carol, thanks for being here today.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:01:26]:

Peep. Hi, Sarisha. Thank you for having me.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:01:29]:

Thank you. So before I jump into iRelaunch, which is the organization that you lead, I wanted to take a few minutes people. To hear your story and what made you get into the space, and how do you empower women?

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:01:43]:

Before I got into this space with iRelaunch, I lived this myself. So I was a financial analyst at peep an investment banking firm in the late eighties, long time ago, and my company collapsed while I was on maternity leave with my first child. And so that began my career break. I decided not to go looking for the next big job and I had 3 more kids in close succession and I was home with them for 11 years people from 1990 until 2001. So, you know, that was 30 years ago at the beginning of that. Peep when I returned to work in 2001, I returned to an investment firm where there were people who used to work with me from the investment bank peep years before. And they remembered me, and that's how we got this whole concept of being frozen in time when people remember you from the pass with if you went to school together or worked together. So they had a frozen in time view of me, I got hired, and I have been through every phase of this transition firsthand.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:02:45]:

So first, I lived it. Then subsequently, I wrote a book about out it. With another relauncher, Vivienne's Dear Raven, we got a book contract to write a book called Back on the Career Track. There was an auction for the book. We got paid in advance. It came out a in 2007, and that was the same year that we cofounded iRelaunch.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:03:05]:

Peep Nice. Very good. Seen some of the podcasts that you've had and some of the workshops you have. I know you have other events as well. So can you actually talk a little bit about iRelaunch itself? What does it do to help women enter the workforce?

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:03:19]:

At iRelaunch, our people. Mission is to normalize the career path that includes the career break. Our vision is that every company that runs a student teach. Internship program at the entry level should be running a mid career reentry program side by side, and we're the pioneering company in the return to work space. We work extensively with employers to help them create can expand their own in house return to work programs. And we work with over 200 clients on return to work programs and programming over the years. And we also lead and support a peep community of almost 100,000 relaunchers who are in all stages of returning to work after career breaks from 1 to over 20 years for a whole range of reasons. And it's men and women, even though it's predominantly still a female pool.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:04:19]:

That's awesome. You are absolutely right. It's not just a female oriented thing. It is men and women. And I think with COVID right now, peep The way the situation is, it affects everybody from all walks of life in all spaces. And I really like the fact about your book. I know I didn't mention it before, but that's Pretty neat that you have a book that actually helps women or men or other people to just see where to get into that space as well and what to do.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:04:44]:

You know, and I should say the book came out in 2007. So instead of doing a 10 year anniversary edition to the book, we decided that we had so much knowledge that we had gained through working with thousands of relaunchers since the book came out that we created a product called Roadmap, which you can access through the I relaunch site, and it has some of the original principles from the book, but it also has tremendous new learnings, and it's it takes 30 steps in 5 phases. We really get into all the details of how people can make that transition back to work. So that is the the primary offering we have now for relaunchers that captures the bulk of our knowledge in terms of strategy.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:05:27]:

That is really good because I think it peep When anyone is making the transition, I've had my own career breaks twice, got laid off, and then I took a break for for kids. And when you're making that transition, you're already mentally overwhelmed with a lot of stuff going on, so it will help to have a road map and someone who's had that experience to help you walk through it. Peep. Either through the lead launch community, the 100,000 members you're talking about, or even just having a sheet of paper that I can just check off the box and say, yes. Okay. I've got this step.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:05:54]:

I've got this step. It's peep worksheets and podcasts and videocasts and lots of content, and people can jump in at any point that's relevant for them. Keeps. So it's a really effective tool.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:06:08]:

I know you did a TED Talk. Like I said, it's got over 3,600,000 views. Very impressive. Peep. So what were some of the key takeaways?

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:06:16]:

The TED talk I actually did in November of 2015, and it was a local Boston TED talk from TEDx Beacon Street. But then in spring of 2016, the big TED platform editors selected it to people be on the big TED. So that's when it started to amass the millions of views, and it's been an amazing vehicle to connect with individuals companies all over the world that are interested in career reentry strategy and helping people return to work. So the key messages In it are, first of all, that's completely possible to relaunch your career after a career break, even if it's an extended career break. Peep. And, in fact, on our podcast, we have a miniseries of people who take longest career breaks, and peep the range of the longest crew rates range from 25 to 31 years. Even people returning to technical roles. It's almost 6 years after the original talk.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:07:15]:

And we have documented so many more success stories. It's completely possible to relaunch your career. You have to think about exactly what you wanna do. That's your job, not the employer's job, to figure out where you can add the most value. Peep you have to reinvigorate your neck network. So connect with those people who have that frozen in time view of you. People. You can connect with people who are junior to you, who've been moving up while you have been on career break.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:07:47]:

They can often open a door for you. People. And you can start that reskilling and upskilling part at any time. Peep. So one message I wanna make sure to communicate to relaunchers is that we know we're realistic at iRelaunch. We know that people take career breaks people for a reason, and that they're not immediately taking their career break so they can then be strategizing on how they can get back to work. People. You have to do what you plan to do on your career break.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:08:19]:

And if you can keep up on the side with what's going on in your field, That is going to be helpful to you later, but it's not it's totally possible to relaunch if you haven't done that. And let me just put in one piece of advice for people who are still working, who are anticipating the future career break. And that is to document Some of your milestone moments right now, while you're living them, anytime you've learned something positive or negative, write it down. Create an e file, and it doesn't have to be anything being perfect or grammatically correct. Just dictate into your phone and add to it. Because if you take a career break years later when you're returning, One of the key things you need are anecdotes from your prior significant work experiences so you can people. Talk about examples of what is relevant to an employer even years later based on something in detail that you actually did. And you will remember that, and you will thank yourself if you had taken notes when it was actually happening as opposed to having to recreate the past years later.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:09:30]:

Peep. Yeah. That's really good advice because I think the story stick with us, not the verbiage that we use. And Yeah. Like you said, now with video and audio recording devices, it may not be a bad even record yourself and just save it on tape. Yeah. I like that. And, the upskilling and I think peep What you emphasize is key.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:09:49]:

Right? Some of the onus lies on whoever is coming back, on what it is that you want to come back to because it may not be where you were before, peep But pivot that, and your energy and your passion might be a little different based on your break, if it's 5 years or 15 years or 20 years on how you want to drive that career when you return.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:10:07]:

And I say make that work for you because what we tell employers at one of the attributes of relaunchers is that peep. We are not in exploratory career mode anymore like we appropriately should be early in our careers. We are more fully formed as people. We're more self aware. Peep. We have a better the career break actually gave us the opportunity to reflect on whether we were on the right career path to begin with. So once we're relaunching, You're getting someone who has already gone through this thought process of where their interests and skills are strongest now and where they can add the most value to an employer. So that's why we say to relaunchers, if they're at a career fair, even at one of the at the iRelaunch return to work conferences, don't go up to the employers and say, I'll do anything.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:10:52]:

They don't wanna hear that. They want you to have already done the work to figure out where you can add the most value. And I'll just mention one more thing from the TED talk is I talk about That you have to go public with your job search and tell everyone that you're interested in returning to work. And you have to expect that you are peep going to have many conversations that don't go anywhere. And out of those many conversations will yield a few That will ultimately lead to that that special opportunity for you. But don't get discouraged when you have lots of conversations that don't go anywhere people. And don't only rely on researching companies online and applying online because that almost always does not work for the relaunch. Or you have to develop those personal relationships.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:11:39]:

And it could be someone at your place of worship or someone who you know casually or a friend of theirs who turns out to be that key person. You don't have to officially figure out how you're going to network professionally, although you should be doing that too. But it's really a mix of lots of different people that you wanna be networking with.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:11:58]:

Very true. I think networking is not going to LinkedIn or Going to 1 space, but trying all the different avenues and around your community as well. And LinkedIn does give you the opportunity. Right? Peep Looking for work and looking to be hired, and there are different tags that you can put that helps you reconnect. And I've had couple of friends. Peep. Myself, that's how I got back to work, but I've had other friends who just reached out to someone on LinkedIn. Mhmm.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:12:21]:

And they sent her opportunities and invited her to come and interview. So That wasn't the that wasn't what she was looking for, but it really was a big leap that really enabled her to tonship.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:12:32]:

Lee, one of our people. Engineers, who was also a military spouse returning to work, said that she started commenting on a thread on LinkedIn and connected with some people people in her area she's a civil engineer through that, and they ended up being the key people who that led to an internship that that she had that she treated as a return ship.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:12:54]:

That's good. There are so many ways now. I think more people are used to the idea of people taking a career break and coming back people. Probably from 15, 20, 30 years ago. Yeah. The culture is more prevalent now, so there are opportunities, and people are not going people. Your career break as much as before. They understand that people take them.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:13:11]:

The question is, how are you gonna make that jump and entry back?

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:13:14]:

And that is so significant that you can even say that because we feel that the complete reframing of the career break from something that used to be the basis of We're gonna toss out this resume because the person had a career break. Now, with more and more companies having formal return to work programs, people. You have to have the career break in order to be eligible to apply for and participate in them. And we consider that the first of an institutional shift that we're going through right now in terms of how employers view relaunchers, and that was accelerated by what happened with COVID.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:13:51]:

Peep Just going through the break, coming back to work, for me personally, it levels at a lot of things. It wasn't intentional, but I realized as I look back now, it's been a decade since I came back to work, that my mindset is significantly different from if I had not taken the break. And the sort of the risks I'm willing to take are a bit more than I would have. And there is a sort of maturity, maybe, is the right word or of a different type of confidence that, okay. I've done this. What can be done and how to make that change? And I to your point, when you were talking earlier about the confidence, the maturity, and just Where people are coming from, it's different from when you're early to when you're taking it at your mid or you've taken a break and you come back. Mhmm. Attributes you bring to work that are not as peep Easily upskilled or acknowledged when you're streaming through the process as such.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:14:40]:

And people. This is something we talk to employers about a lot. The attributes of the relaunch are not only 1, as you're saying before, where we talked about we're more fully formed as people and can pinpoint more about what we wanna do. But the idea that's always been true about relaunchers and just yourself peep is that we took career breaks for reasons that had nothing to do with our work performance. And that's why we're a hidden talent pool, and companies are or employers are discovering more and more about the skill set that relaunchers offer. So education, experience, the mature perspective as you're talking about. We've worked already. We've worked on teams with different personalities, and we've faced work deadlines before.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:15:22]:

People. That does not have to be taught perspective that we bring. We have an energy and enthusiasm because we're so excited to be back at work, and managers often people comment on that. And in general, more there's a critical mass of relaunchers inside organizations now for the programs that have been running longer, peep and we're starting to see changes because of that. We see relaunches wanting to hire other relaunchers and being we're not viewing that As risky, it used to be perceived as risky, and now it's we want the relaunchers because we know how great they are. So peep we're witnessing in real time a shift that's happening.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:16:00]:

Very true. In my own case, in other cases, I've seen where people are willing to reach out and help. Peep. And I think the frozen in time is very true statement because some of them have been 15 year breaks, 13 year breaks, and It doesn't take them long. And some of the reentries have been where people have had to take a step back from where their original roles were. And what's happened is in those cases, peep It's helped them also to returning, but also help them for people to get to know them. And they've gone back to their original roles in six months or 9 months. It hasn't taken them long to step back where they were when they put you

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:16:35]:

that you're highlighting that because, one of the things that we've been one of the I'd say a hot topic inside companies about return to work relaunchers and return to work programs is all around level peep and compensation. And at what level do people convert or come back to work? And we see some risk averseness on the part of the relaunchers themselves and the companies. Because the relauncher might think, I've been I've been away for 10 years, so maybe I should come back in at a more junior level. That's probably a better, gradual way to go. The employer might be thinking, we wanna set people up for success, peep. So let's on the side more junior, and so we're not pushing it. And then people. The relauncher advances at a quicker rate than getting used to performing on the job again than either they themselves or the employer anticipated.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:17:32]:

Anticipated. So then the question is, do we build into some of these programs like a level adjustment where that's off cycle people. That might be before the end of the year or whenever you normally do that. So it's interesting that you're saying that you've seen relaunches, I'm guessing, even outside peep side programs who come on board and then ramp up quick very quickly even if they've had been on a career break for an extended period.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:17:57]:

Peep Yeah. And you're right. These are people who have not necessarily entered through a program as such. It's been through this networking, reaching out, the opportunity coming, and peep People actually in in some cases, they've been extremely willing to help where you were not necessarily ready mentally in that space, but they were like, come on. You're ready for it. Let's

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:18:15]:

people Try it, and

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:18:16]:

it's been very successful. And I think the other challenge when someone relaunches, that's the work part, but it's the personal life space. Right? We're all trying to peep Figure out how to work. Very often, people take breaks for either family reasons or other personal reasons. So just how do you get back in? How do you adjust your schedule? There are lots of Things that they have to work through, something for everyone to think about. Yes. There's the work and the job and the pay and what you're going to do, but Make sure you have or you're at least cognizant of all the other pieces that need to mesh together when you're making that move.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:18:49]:

That is so true. And, interestingly, during COVID, where everything went virtual, not even nothing to do with career breaks or return to work, but everything went virtual, people. And so did the return to work programs. And what we found and we work with relaunchers globally now, so we're seeing this people. Across the world, it is so fascinating that relaunchers in all different countries face the same concerns, and they're excited about the same things, and Their trajectories and the conversations that we have are, I want to say identical, but nearly identical no matter where in the world. One of the things we are finding people is that for people who did take career breaks for childcare reasons, who still have school age or younger kids at home, the virtual relaunch was gentler than the relaunch, as you can imagine, because you relaunched and then I relaunched and we both had school age children, people. The idea that mom's back at work or dad's back at work today, and you're still sitting there in the house. You're working, but you have not left the home you're around is very different than the 1st day that you relaunch your crew.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:19:57]:

You You leave the house and go to the office, you go to work, whatever that means in the kid's mind, and that's just a very different thing. And the relaunchers have commented That's been a more gradual, gentler process for them and their families.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:20:11]:

You have over 200 episodes in your podcast. I think it was a 2 again, when I checked today. So you've talked to a lot of different people in different careers with different breaks.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:20:22]:

Yep. And

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:20:23]:

you only talked about the skill set and what they need to do get peep But I was wondering if you can share some stories. You said somewhat as much as 25 to 30. Some are probably quite short, maybe 1 to 2 years. What are some stories? Because those are the ones that are gonna peep with people that you would suggest that things to do and things probably not to do as well. We always get great advice on what we should do, but Sometimes I find the best advice is what not to do or what I don't want to do. It's just as important. So if you can speak to that.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:20:50]:

Well, One thing I wanna speak to, which it runs through a lot of the story so just to give context. So our podcast is called 321 I relaunch. We release it weekly. It's return to work advice, strategies, and success stories. So most of the time, we're talking to relaunchers about the details of their relaunch, and we are getting into a lot of detail, because we think that's where the value is to the listener. We also talk to experts who and ask them to take their peep. Frameworks and methodologies and apply it to the relaunch or even though we like, we did that with Laura Vanderkam for time management. We've done that with Michael Watkins, the 1st 90 days.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:21:29]:

People. We have that perspective too. We speak with employers. But one thing that a theme that runs through a lot of the stories is that it takes a long time and it takes longer than people think to relaunch. And the idea that you're sitting there submitting Hundreds of resumes online and hearing nothing, not even a rejection, but nothing for a really long time people. And realizing that you need to take that next hard step, which is actually to start having conversations with people and connecting with them in different ways, and how do you actually do that? People. I think that's really hard for people, but I hear over and over again, that's the step that made the difference. So people.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:22:11]:

Going public with your job search and taking that step we used to say, get out of the house. Now that has a different context with COVID, peep. But still this idea of having lots of conversations and telling people what you're that you're getting ready to return to work, what you're interested in doing, asking them what they do. So get in a conversation with them about work and then have them ask you and have prepared, You know, this elevator pitch is a succinct way of talking about what you're interested in doing and be very specific. So you have to not just say I'm going into finance, you can or I'm going to engineering. You have to say I'm looking for process engineering roles or or quality. I'm I'm looking for I wanna be a quality engineer. I was in manufacturing engineering before.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:22:55]:

Now I'm really focused on quality. I just got lean certified because I didn't have that before. You get specific peak in in terms of your goals and also the grit and resilience that people need to have when they're going through this process. Peep. And things are either progressing slowly or maybe they make progress and they actually get a few steps in, and then they get rejected. That are even at the finals, and they don't get it. And they have to pick themselves up, start over again. So I'd say I really appreciate it when our podcast guests are so frank and vulnerable About having a really tough time I just did an interview that's gonna come out in a few weeks, a nurse who now does legal compliance work related to medical procedures, but she went back into nursing first because her partner had a prolonged layoff, people.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:23:52]:

And finances were really tight. And she said, I know she listened to our podcast. She says, I know you talk to people who chose to go back to work. I had to go back to work. And still, you know, where she talks about her evolution now a few months, a few years later, peep. She talks about it with joy and enthusiasm, even recognizing how hard it was at the very beginning.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:24:17]:

Peep. Yeah. Very true. Because I think in my own space, I was maybe a year and a half into the break, close to 2 years when I was thinking, but it took 3 years to come back. It had to do with economy. A lot of things was 2008, 2009. So I went to a job fair. I think there were 10 jobs, a 1000 people.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:24:36]:

I took

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:24:36]:

a step back and said, okay. This is going to be hard. And, yes, you will not hear from anyone. Those are people. All things to keep in mind. It's and I think it comes back to again and again talking about what you wanna do I'm talking to people that information interview or information gathering because you're also trying to find out what opportunities are there. It has changed. The space has change.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:24:58]:

So it's for you to go find out what those spaces are so you can see where you fit in and even reach out to some old friends and send your resume. Because I've had people I've done it, and I've had people reach out to me and send their resumes. And then you're saying, okay. Reformat it. Highlight this. Have you talked about this? Because when you start talking to people, you find out what the stories are behind, and some of those are the ones that you want to highlight in your resume, not your title and what you did so much as some key aspects that peep People might be looking for that you need to step up and put there so that they can see it.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:25:29]:

You're absolutely right. And this whole concept. We actually use those words. We advise people when they're getting back in touch with people in the past, rekindling relationships, that they don't just go in opportunistically. Can you help me find a job? You want to re focus on rebuilding the relationship first and talk about being in information gathering mode. We actually use those. Say you're in information gathering mode. I'm trying to I want to become a subject matter expert all over again in preparation for my return to work.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:26:00]:

And can you recommend an expert? Or who do you follow? Or where people. Where are the most interesting conversations happening about what's going on in our field? And then the other thing that that you said that made made you think of one more thing during the podcasts. It's almost every person says my career break lasts a lot longer than I thought because I thought I was only gonna be out a year or 2, and then next thing you know, 5 years went by. Peep and that's why we're thinking these COVID career breaks. I don't think people are gonna be bouncing, running back into the workforce so fast. People. First of all, once you're on career break, then other things happen where you're the person on career break, So you then suddenly have responsibility for them, or maybe you wouldn't have before. Also with the COVID situation, we're not sure how stable is it.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:26:48]:

If you have kids, are they going to be back in school? Is there gonna be some, are they weird hours or weird days or people have come home. How are you gonna handle that? And then the fallout from it. There's mental health fallout. There's trying to make sure there's stability in the household in all different levels, peep. And that that is gonna keep people out longer to make sure that things are more stable before they're ready to go back in. Peep.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:27:12]:

So the segue comment I have to that is I know I when I took my break that I it wasn't like an intentional thing, but I actually got to peop Spend time building friendships. It's investing in that that many years later, it's really helped, and I think there are so many things you get out of that career break. That is that community, that friends, that tribe that's going to keep you going as either through the break. The interesting funny thing is every one of us who are on carrier break is working now, so we all went through that people. Transit difference. We're trying to figure out in different times in different ways, some through school, some through this, and peep. Some after even a longer break or their 1st time jobs 15, 20 years after. So there have been different transition stories right there.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:27:56]:

It's good to have a balance of all of that because there's just people going through so many different situations. You'll you'll learn something from all of it people. And just have that deployed.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:28:07]:

And along one of 1 of the podcasts that we did earlier on is with Quay Kelch Maddox, who is actually on our on our advisory board. Peep. And she returned to work as a producer after a 13 year career break. She now works for CNN. And that podcast is all about how enriching her career break was. People. And so the experiences that you have on Careerbreak and what you bring with you because you've had that experience then back to the workforce. And that's another reason I think employers are recognizing they want our viewpoint.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:28:37]:

We're coming from a different perspective and it should be in the mix.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:28:41]:

People. Very true. Like that you said you interviewed Laura Vanderkam because I've read her book a 168 hours, and me and a friend actually really like it because I think peep It's a great exercise. I don't know if you have tried it yourself, the 2 week exercise where you go and look at your time in, like, 15, 30 minute intervals, and it's eye opening. When we all say we don't have time, yes. We lead very busy lives. No doubt about it. But I think it gives you a perspective on where do you wanna spend your time and how do you wanna sort of level sets in, then gives you a nice visual to see, oh, maybe this is what I should or should choose not to do, and peep.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:29:15]:

Then you can have the conversation with yourself on what you want to do.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:29:19]:

No. I totally agree with you. I love so just to to give people a background. So Laura Vanderkam, time management for looks. Instead of looking at time as 24 hour days, she looks at time in terms of 168 hour weeks. And how do you spend that time, certain amount of hours sleeping. And she had a 1,000 people mapped out their time in 15 minute increments and did all these time studies. People.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:29:41]:

And I actually follow her on Insta, and she just she herself just had a 5th child. And so I'm always watching her to see teach. How is she managing the time so productively with the kids, and she's writing books and doing everything? So she really lives the exam the perfect example of what she talks about. Peep but, yeah, very helpful strategies there.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:30:00]:

We've had this has been a great conversation because it's not just about relaunching as much as everything else that peep So that the web the network around it to make people successful and think about it. As we're getting close to wrapping up So this is a question I ask every quest. What quality or advice would you give your 21 year old self for the decades ahead?

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:30:21]:

People. I've learned this from working with thousands of people who are at mid career on career break, who use that time to examine whether they were on the right career path to begin with. And I think that's because we tend to fall into something without a lot of thought when we're younger. First of all, people. We are not fully formed as people yet. We really should be in broad exploratory mode during our twenties because people. Either we'll fall into something by accident because it happened to be there and then you take another job in the same field and the next thing you know, you have a career. Or we're fulfilling someone else's expectations.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:31:02]:

My parents always wanted me to go to law school, so I went. Then I realized I don't even want to be a lawyer. So having enough of those conversations with people at midpoint when people are 21. And I give this advice to 21 year olds, people in their twenties is go out and have as many different experiences you can. And don't pressure yourself to have it all together by the time you're 30. And that's what I would do. And I wanna give the caveat that some people might say, yeah, that's all nice and good, Carol, as long as you don't have tremendous amounts of debt that you have to pay off. So I'm not saying to ignore that.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:31:35]:

You can certainly have a stable job that is not your favorite job because you're getting income from it and paying down your loans. And as a side gig or a side interest, you're exploring on your own time peep other options for yourselves.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:31:48]:

I like you clarified that because there are things you can do in your outside your work time as well that kind of balances everything out. One last question. How would you describe yourself in one word? Oh, peep Enthusiastic? That's good.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:32:03]:

I I love what I'm doing, and I love the impact. And I love watching in real time results a lot of work over a long period of time. So very enthusiastic, very excited about what's to come.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:32:16]:

It's amazing. Right? You've built a community of a 100,000 people. And if peep. If you have, you know, as many views as you have on TED Talk and you have so many podcasts out there, there's there's a lot of community that you are not aware of that is people. Listening or seeing this and taking nuggets out of it. To look forward and look back and say, okay. I've had an impact not just on a person's life or this, but also the people. Systemic change, like you said, over 15 years.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:32:40]:

Now talking about career break is a bit more normalized than it was before when you started. Just that shift in conversation peep It's it's a fulfilling experience in itself, and your enthusiasm carries through when you're talking about it. So that's fantastic, and thanks for doing that.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:32:54]:

Thanks Thanks. Thanks for the opportunity to have the conversation. I love, Sarisha, that you yourself are an example of what is possible in a relaunch. And I think those examples are So important not only for individuals to be inspired by, but for employers to see what is possible.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:33:11]:

Thank you, Carol.

Carol Fishman Cohen [00:33:12]:

Peep Thanks, Trisha.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:33:14]:

And if you want people. I relaunch on those 2 sites. Tune in every other Wednesday to catch the next episode. Please subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. I would love to hear peep from you about your stories and your journey. You can reach me on my blog, Instagram, or Gmail at women career and life. If you think a friend people. May benefit from this.

Sirisha Kuchimanchi [00:33:40]:

Please share this podcast with them. Remember, there are infinite possibilities to drive change in career in life. Which will you choose to make a reality today. People.