Episode 119: Why Men Matter & The Gathering Of Men

“Every man deserves a place to unravel, to be witnessed, and to remember who he is.”

In this episode we go straight into the heart of The Gathering of Men, the four-day immersion that has become a fire in the belly of men’s work in Australia. 200 men, fathers and sons, elders and young ones, leaders from across the country… all circling up to wrestle, to sing, to drum, to weep, to celebrate, and to remember what it really means to be a man.

Jacob shares what fatherhood stripped from him, how it forced him into deeper responsibility, and why suffering through life isn’t noble, it’s avoidance. He talks about the three pillars of the Gathering… challenge, celebration, and camaraderie, and why without brotherhood, none of it sticks.

If you’ve ever wondered what happens when men are willing to be raw, messy, creative, and real together, this is it.

🔥Here’s What We Dive Into:

• “Suffering isn’t strength. The pain of becoming is.”
• “Every boy deserves more than one father—he deserves a community of uncles.”
• Why rites of passage matter (and what happens when men never get them)
• How poetry, music, wrestling, and storytelling all belong at TGOM
• The three pillars: challenge, celebration, and brotherhood
• What happens when men stop proving themselves and start remembering themselves
• Why TGOM is a prayer, not a product

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Transcript

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So many men listen to podcasts, read books, try to do the work on their own. And the issue is, is that they're still trying to fix themselves or understand themselves without the actual support of being held. So brotherhood provides that containment that allows you to let go of control of your life. And when you let go of control, you can start to unravel. And when you unravel, you start to find the places within yourself that you have hidden from the world. Brotherhood gives you a place to be witnessed and to refine, and to bring that through in a safe way, so that when you go back, you can then share this part of you with your woman, with your work, with your children. And it's not as raw or as volatile as it once was. Yo, yo yo, lovers. Welcome, welcome, welcome to sex, love and everything in between. Where the O'Neals. You're here with Meg and Jacob. And this is the place we have really uncensored conversations about sex, intimacy and relationships. Well, super excited you're here. Enjoy this episode. Yo, what's up guys? It's Jacob here. Before you dive into this episode, I wanted to talk to you guys about the gathering of men. This is a four day men's retreat that's happening really, really soon. It's on the third till the 6th of October in the Gold Coast hinterland, and we're bringing together a variety of world class facilitators into the one place for four days to deliver what we call men's work. And men's work is the opportunity for a man to step into an arena and challenge himself, to be celebrated for being a man and what it means to be a man. And he's going to get the opportunity to experience the powerful medicine of brotherhood. What it means when you come together with other men who are dedicated to doing the deep work so they can become better men, better husbands, better fathers, better leaders in service to essentially the rising in the thriving of humanity. So if you're a man, if you're a man who knows that you've got deeper work to do here on this planet, if you know that there's a level of greatness that you haven't yet actualized, and you want to come and really work on yourself and cultivate your masculine leadership, this is the place to do it. This is the land to do it on. These are the men to do it with. We're spending four days together. Over those four days, we're going to be doing 15 different experiences. We're going to be feeding you and fueling you with organic meals, deeply enriching whole foods. Over the course of these four days, you're going to have the opportunity to connecting with Mother Nature. You have the opportunity to connecting with other men on the path. And most importantly, you're going to be able to connect in with who you truly are, and you're going to develop the capacity and the confidence and the immeasurable courage to go out and be that version of you, no matter who you are with, no matter where it is that you're you are existing in, no matter what it is that you're doing. This is the power of men's work. This is why brotherhood truly is the medicine that allows us to live our lives greatly. So, brother, you deserve to live freely. You deserve to love deeply. You deserve to serve greatly. But it's going to cost you. You've got to come and do the work. The gathering of men third till the 6th of October. The Gold Coast hinterland tickets are only $999. We've got payment plans available. Head over to Instagram. Hit my bio. It's the Jacob O'Neal. Go to the link in my bio. Click on it. Check out the website, get your ticket and we'll see you there. Looking forward to deepening in brotherhood in service to humanity. Together we rise. Let's go. Hi. Beautiful humans. Yo, yo. Welcome back to sex, love and everything in between. I'm here with my glorious husband, the Jacob O'Neal. I'm here with my. No, I'm interviewing you. No. You can't. Hello. Great to be here. We, This conversation is all about the gathering of men, which is an event you founded. Is is the fourth year. This is the 2018, the fourth year in a row that you've held this event. And I facilitated this event, and we just got to talk about it. And I talk about the power of the gathering of men. And we're going to talk about the epic men that you've got lined up. To facilitate this, yes, we're going to talk about last year how you couldn't make it because I was birthing our son on the exact moment of the opening ceremony. Yes. That was, that was a big I still haven't fully, told my, my version of the. I know we did like the birth story, but I've never I haven't actually just, like, shared my own perspective. I was still been sitting with that. And I think it's like it's coming up to a year and it's feeling more real than it ever has. It's like, I feel like that was such a huge thing that I worked. We were moving toward having a child, and now that we've got Irish and it's coming out to a year, I'm like, really? In that, I mean, a contemplative side around like how what has the last ten months? What is what is the last ten months meant for me as a man and for me as a leader? And yeah, how I'm choosing to do things differently because I no longer have the same level of like freedom, the same type of freedom that I had before he came along, before I could just fuck around and find out. And now I actually have to create a level of structure because I have a responsibility to a child down and to you as a mother, which is completely different to just being responsible to you as a lover. Do you want to talk more about that? Well it's got a lot to do with gathering a man's and everything. I guess a huge reason. I don't know, I'll just speak from what I see. But I think a huge part of why you got into this work and a huge part of what I see the gathering of men doing for so many men. And your work in general, doing for so many men is having them. Cultivate like the fortitude to stay rooted in their responsibilities and not want to run from their responsibilities. Yeah. I think that's such a and just, you know, your work in the world is so much for supporting men to to stay rooted and be the men that their wives and women and children need them to be. And allowing them to choose that rather than seed is like, oh it's been forced upon me. I think that's a huge thing that a lot of men avoid the pain of responsibility and choose to suffer. In like mediocrity, the suffering in the, the story that this is too much. And I think suffering is such a celebrated part of society. It's like, oh, you just suffer through life. It's just, you know, this is this, this is good enough. And there's this undertone of suffering. Whereas when you fully embrace responsibility, you're saying yes to the pain of of letting go of who you were and stepping into who you're becoming. And I'm really learning this, you know, especially in the last couple of weeks being sick and really going through a somewhat of an identity crisis is that, I've been avoiding feeling this, this deeper pain of letting go and the pain of becoming. It feels literally like I'm, like, in a chrysalis, and I'm having to actually, like, turn to goo and then find this new, structure in this new posture, in this new version of me, even though I don't know what it actually looks like just yet. And that's really what we help men we like. Who you. Who you've been is great. And it's served you up until now. But what's coming requires a new, more, mature, deep, more rooted version of you. So let us help you develop that. In an appropriate way, where it's contained and the focus is on providing you safety, providing you a sense of belonging and making sure that you are understanding that you are valued and you have value to develop. For those I'm sure many people listening to this have seen a lot of the footage from the last three years of the gathering of Men. How many men did you have there last year. 150 I think. It was, it was close to 150. Yeah. Yeah. So imagine just a glorious bit of land. 150 men. I think like some of the content that I'm sure people have seen and that you guys have shared is a lot of like wrestling and like you, you do a lot of like physical activities and all of these things. But what I love about the gathering of men as well is that there's so much creativity and there's there is truly like the full spectrum and breadth and width of what it is to be, in your masculine or to be a man. And I think sometimes, maybe when that footage is shed of just like, like that's a huge part of that. But there's so much more to the gathering of men than just that. And I know that's evolved over the last few years too, and I would just love you to speak a little bit more on just like the celebration and the even like the culture piece that you really speak about. Yeah. Yeah. The, the first thing that I love about the gathering you men is that, like, you get such a diverse reflection of man because there's just so many men there. You also get a diverse reflection of leadership because we bring in realistically like some of the best men's work facilitators in Australia, together in the one place which you don't get anywhere else. You don't get that is very unlikely for an industry to come together in the way that it does at the gathering of men. Yeah. Because ideally we're all actually in competition with each other. If you put a side by side, you'd say that our programs, in competition, our coaching is in competition. But because of the relationship that we've built and the way that I've developed the pressure of the gathering of men and had it so beautifully supported by the other leaders. Now, Ryan, Luke and Scott is that this is something where leaders can come together and serve something deeper than just our pockets, something deeper than just our our status or our number of likes and comments and followers on socials. It's something that we all get to serve from a place of it's bigger than me. And that, I believe, shows men that there's no one right way of being a man. There's a beautiful texture, a beautiful tapestry of, of manhood presented from, from the facilitators but from the whole entire group participants, crew, facilitators. We have men as young as 12 and guys as old as 70 plus. So we get we what we not only get is like men that, have different vocations, different experiences, but we have men at different stages of life as well. So you're getting like this full range of, perspective around what it can look like to be a man in this modern world, whether that's in a relationship, in a career, just in know, or your own, development of self. And you also get to see what that looks like a different, different ages from different locations. This is a it's very hard to replicate what we do because every single person has a purpose. Their it's so beautiful. I just got a little teary then when you were sharing and when you said that it's like men from as young as 12. Up to how old? 70, 70 plus. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just reflecting on, I think the last two years there's been a particular man that's brought his sons both times, and they've come two years in a row, and there's a lot of fathers that come with sons. And I know that you, for any you know, of the the boys are like the young men that come. You create certain experiences just for them, and, Yeah. Like what? I just I'm so moved when you tell me the stories of the fathers coming with the sons and this being like an initiation or a rite of passage for many of those, for many of the men, you know, even the men that are in their 50s and 60s like to me is a rite of passage that they never received, but so powerful that these young men get to be receiving a rite of passage at the age that traditionally young men should be moving through rite of passage. Yeah. With like providing that in a way that doesn't have the the soul responsible. So responsibility fall on the father. Yeah. So there's this kind of, Narrative right now that men, you know, there's all the bullshit. I don't really give a fuck, but it's like there's a bit of a narrative with it. Like, men have to be everything now. Like, we have to figure out how to do and be and give everything sort of, so this is like, oh, I've got to be a good father, good husband, a good provider. So what that does is it actually pushes a man back into a corner and has him believing that he doesn't have anyone that he can rely on. So what I actually love most around about and fathers and sons coming together is seeing the sons actually get to learn from other men. Yes. And what I see is that that father learns to trust other men and see the value of having other men in his sons lives. So in ancient cultures, it was many fathers and many uncles for every boy. So in some, like some unintentional way, the gathering a man is a remembering of that. It's like, hey, like these young men now have, not just one man that they have to rely on for all of their teaching and learning around what it means to be a man. They now have this beautiful brotherhood, this beautiful community of uncles that can share their wisdom and share their, insights into what the next stage of life could look like for them. And that thing gives them a better understanding of like, oh, cool. I'm not exactly like my dad. My dad's great, but I also I really like what Lindsay's doing. I love learning from him. Oh, I like jujitsu. My dad's never done that. I want to do that. Oh, this guy plays guitar. My dad does. Oh, I like guitar. It's a beautiful opportunity for them to see that manhood has, many different ways of expressing itself whilst being rooted in the values of, of healthy masculinity. I have so many questions I want to ask you. Do you want to speak a little bit more around healthy masculinity and how you feel? Yeah. Even like if you want to add in around like how Teagan came to be and like why you feel like this is a really powerful place for, yeah. Like the the rerouting of healthy masculinity. Like one of the key things that most people don't see us promote or forward face on lot is in the gathering of men is actually deep ceremony. So ceremony is a for me, ceremony is a way to relate with my own heart, the heart of Mother Earth and the and the the essence of spirit. So the gathering of men is a deep ceremony where we get to relate with the earth, with spirit, and with the heart within our body, in the heart, within this, within each man. So it's it's a very, very deep, ritualistic prayer this whole four days. It's not actually just some formula that we come up with. Like, this is what you need to do. Go through these seven steps to be a man. Every year for the last four years, we have literally sat down and with a blank sheet of paper and said, what does the gathering of men want to be this year? What is it asking of us? What is life wanting? To experience through this and the the, the essence of healthy masculinity for me is that it's it's being able to sit still long enough and allow life to communicate with you and build a relationship with the. Creation that you are taking part or taking some responsibility in bringing through to the world. Masculinity for me isn't around for forcing my rule, on my will, on the world. It's not about this is how it needs to look. Masculinity is like show me and allow me to be with this as I then tend to and guide and support the creation as it comes to form. That's a very vulnerable position to put yourself in, because it means that I'm not squeezing it to be squeezing it to get something out of it. The whole concept of the gathering in men is like, we're not here to get something from it. We're here to be in reciprocity, where we continually give me that expectation, and in that we trust that we will receive whatever it is that we need as well as, so, like healthy masculinity, I believe right now is really going to be a focus on quality and a quality of presence. And that's what we really want men to experience at the gathering. A man is a quality of presence in how we deliver this, and we really invite men to slow down to the pace of nature so they can reset themselves to the truth of who they are, which is nature. And then from that place, they get to fortify a structure around a set of values that allows them to deliver their gift, their medicine, their offering to the world, whether that's to drive a bus, build houses, do men's work, coach, heal whatever it is, it's can you actually connect with the truth of who you are, which is nature? Can you then fortify a structure that is aligned with the values that you hold close to your heart, and then deliver your authentic expression, whether it's in relationship, whether it's in your career, whether it's just in walking down the street. And this for me is what masculinity is. It's a it's the ability to stay connected to your depth and deliver the truth of who you are, regardless of what you're doing, who you're with, where you're at. Yo what's up. It's Jacob here again I just wanted to drop in and remind you about the gathering of men. This is an incredible men's retreat that's happening on the 3rd to the 6th of October here in the Gold Coast hinterland. Tickets are only $999. That's for four days, 15 incredible experiences. We're going to have 30 world class facilitators. We're going to feed you incredible food, put you through an amazing rite of passage so that you can step into and cultivate your masculine leadership. This is in service to you and all that you care about. So if you're a man who's ready to step up, if you're a man who's ready to live fully in alignment with the truth of who you are, and you're really ready to do that in a way that's appropriate, then come and join us at the Gathering of Men. We've got an incredible lineup. We've got an incredible, incredible piece of land that we do this work on. And we'd love to have you there. Hit my Instagram bio. It's Jacob O'Neill. There's a link there. Click on it. Go out and check out the page. Grab your ticket and we'll see you on the land in the circle on the 3rd of October. Let's go with that of it all. Love the show. No, I love it. You know. I loved that so much. Tim. Yeah. One of my favorite pieces that you just said was like, you, you know, you're not trying to squeeze things out. It's not like an event where it's like, this is the result and you will leave being, you know, having this results. And it's it is it's a ceremony. And, yeah. Like this I even just oh my gosh, it's one of my favorite things to speak to because a lot of our community go to the gathering, and I know a lot of men that, you know, go into and have been for the last three years. And just like being in conversation and receiving men when they finish the four days is just one of my favorite experiences in my entire life, like seeing how deeply they feel changed and how deeply the, the just, the, the, the energy of the four days and the experience of the four days shifts them cell ually and they they can't really put it into words and they know, like leaving those four days that they are going to be a different like they're going to be changed as a father, as a husband, as you know, whoever they are in the world, it's so fucking profound to to witness in a man. And I'm so grateful. And I know this is a huge part of why you do what you do. You know, I'm so grateful for this work because for the ripple, like for the ripple on, you know, the women or whoever, you know, these men's partners are for their children for, you know, all all this work is so important for the way they father, for the way they husband for the way they are in the world. Yeah. 100% like it's, that's the whole thing is like we don't try to squeeze anything out of it because we know that this is something that is here to be regenerative and serve more than just out. You know once again our pockets are our, our egos. And that's a very vulnerable position to be in in this like this current state of the world where we're taught that we need more, we need more money, we need more things. We need more, more clients. We need more, more, more, more, more, more scale this, scale that. And even, you know, this year it's been like, oh, we want to we want to get a few, you know, cut 200 men this year and we want to like, really build it and, and keep the fire burning strong. But the truth this year is that the gathering of men is the gathering of men, where the one man shows up with 500 men show up. The gathering of men is not a event that needs to sell out to be good enough. The Gathering of men is an event that provides a space for whoever is ready, and whoever is willing. And I cannot force a man's hand. I cannot, tell a man that he should be there. Yeah, I'll create some polarizing content and do the marketing thing and play the game online. And, you know, hopefully I'll get you over the line. But the practice here is this, like the gathering of many is the gathering of men, regardless of who shows up. No, I love. That and that that is what makes it the gathering of men is that we're willing to run it regardless. We're not going to like, we'll, we'll circle up and we will light the fire and we will bang the drum and we will do the processes and my, my ego will have to be the one that, that that dances with. Whether or not it sells out or not is not the actual truth of whether it's valuable or not. This is me being asked to embrace what I said before, which is, am I actually choosing to be a man of quality, or am I just focusing on quantity? Am I just being the discount store of men's work where I'm like, I've got to get as many people in? It doesn't matter if we slash prices or we undercut it. It's like, no, this is not about that. This is about owning the quality of our creation and delivering it regardless of who sees the value, because we know that it is valuable. Yeah I think that's a huge thing. I think a lot of men and this is something that I'm working with at the moment is a lot of men are out there trying to convince the world that they're good enough by overextending themselves in ways that they think they have to, just to be good enough. Like I have to do this, this, this, this, and this, just to prove and convince the world that I'm worthy. That's what has got us into a lot of problems and issues, believing that we need to convince the world of our validity as men. It's like, I'm done playing that game. We're here and we're essential and there's nothing that can change that. We need men. Yeah we really do. I love the piece around. You said earlier I'm like coming home to the like pace of nature because we are nature. And I think that's just a huge piece of that. It's like as a nature, like knowing that we don't have to. Yeah. You don't see like a tree trying to like prove itself or slow or trying to prove itself or rush its growth and. Yeah. Just coming home to, to ourselves as nature. And nature has four seasons and like honoring the season of life that you're in. Like that's the beauty of us moving in a more natural way is that you're going to go through seasons of winter. You're going through seasons of like spring and growth. You're going to go through seasons of like enjoying the summer and enjoying the, the, the, the, fruits of your labor. And then it's going to come time to start to shed, before you go into your, your, your internal world and go through the winter again. And this is, the the more I learn about myself as a nature, the more I am called to live in a much slower, simpler way. And that's not to say that I don't want great things for myself and our family and all of that, but I also know that none of that actually like when I actually tune into what feeds me on the deepest level, it's it's nature and it's the natural world. And to get caught up in pursuing things and abandoning that, that connection, I normally end up exhausted, highly strung, and really good for no one. For the people. Yeah, that's the piece. It's not that I. I'm allowed to want what I want in the world of material possessions, but if I abandon my connection to nature to try and get them, that is where I lose myself. Because I put my value in those things. Whether it's an outcome, whether it's an item or whether it's a, a $1 amount, if I place my worth, if I place myself in any of those, I have lost already, even before I started. Which is a huge lesson that we continually, invited to learn ourselves as the leaders of the gathering of men. And then we practice supporting other men, and we facilitate supporting other men in finding that truth out for themselves, because they may have been walking a path that is not theirs because they were told that, hey. You value your worth exists on the other side of that dollar or on the other side of that car, or on the other side of that, achievement or that other side of that deal. It's like, no, that's not how we play the game anymore. I know a big pot, and I, I know you used to have, like, three pillars of team. I don't know if you do that anymore, but I know one of the pillars is celebration. And I really love what. Everyone else gets to be celebrated, but not me. Is that an Etsy? That's the one that I'm out of integrity and, I just love because I really see again. I've never well, I have entity. I've dropped milk off one time and did I come last? No I didn't oh, sorry. When you said milk, I thought breast milk. Dropped a lot of breast milk off for all the gorgeous participants. And we do a lot of. Yeah, high level biohacking. The the morning coffee. I can do that if anyone want. No, I a few years ago, I dropped milk off and some things that. Yeah, needed me to. And I just was like, oh, because no women allowed in the land. That felt really special. But other than that, I'm just in the footage and I just love how, you know, if you want to take us through, like, do you still work with the three? Yeah, I can a challenge. Yeah, that's the second one. So the three pillars a challenge, celebration and camaraderie. Brotherhood. Yeah. I like them all to be CS. Yeah. Do you want to speaking to that? And I think just like that celebration piece and I would really love because again, I've had even I hear some, some people in the men's work space be like men's works just like, all the time. And I'm like, yeah, sometimes people see that. But that is not what the gathering of Men. It's like, if people really knew the culture and the like, the like, I'd love you to talk about Leon and storytelling. And last year you had a Bush poet come and like, there's just so again, like the depth and breadth of what it is to be a man and, the creativity that's involved. And it's not just wrestling, although there's, you know, some parts of that too. I would love you to just speak a little bit into that as well. Yeah. And I sorry, I, I just want to add one more piece. And I love that you spoke about like, every man belongs and that. Yeah. Like it's. And I'm sure you have some men, you know, being like I really feel like going there, but like I've seen this thing of the wrestling or I've seen they do this and I don't know if I'd be any good at that or like, that feels scary. And it's like, you know, knowing that there's this, like wider breadth of what you really do and not, you know, everyone is welcome and everyone belongs in all of it. Yeah, yeah. The three pillars challenge, celebration and camaraderie, there to ensure that we have a well-rounded approach to men's work and we don't get lost in just one aspect of the work. So challenge is, and it's a necessary part, if you don't challenge yourself, you will continually choose what's familiar, and what is familiar will serve you up until life is asking for more from you. So the challenge part is to actually show you that you're capable of more than you actually realize. So yeah, we do physical, physically challenged things. We do emotionally challenging things. We do spiritually challenging things. We do mentally challenging things to show you that you are not who you think you are. You are so much more, well, that is just a natural part of it. We don't get lost in just warrior work. We do that. We challenge you spiritually to consider what it means to be a spiritual man. We we challenge your mental capacity, your mental fortitude, and show you that your mind is actually so much greater than just the stories it's created up until now, emotionally, we show you that you've got emotions, and not necessarily that you have emotions, but you have the capacity to feel emotions. And you can be moved by things that you may not have expose yourself to before. Whether it's a beautiful story in poetry from Leone, whether it's to dance or whether it's to hear music in a way, or whether to witness another brother share something that he's been holding on to for 40 years, and you allow the witnessing of him in his process to move something in you. So challenge is not just us grabbing each other by the neck and fighting to to one of us is on our back screaming. That's not what challenges challenge is the ability to reveal that us capable of so much more than you originally believed. Celebration. This is a beautiful one. If you. The way that I frame this is like, I'll always say who he, enjoys it when people sing happy Birthday to you and pretty much zero, except for one guy who thinks it's funny to put his hand up. And I'm like, dude, you're a liar. Stop lying. Not many men, I would say 0% of men in Australia have the capacity to be celebrated just for who they are. They believe they are allowed to receive an award once they've done all of the things. But to be celebrated just for being who you are is is a foreign concept. So what we do is we weave in celebration and we show men how to to drop the mask of comparison and competition and, and inject celebration into every single process that we have. So we do that from the start, all the way to through to the end. And we celebrate each other. We celebrate the hearts of men, we celebrate masculinity. We celebrate the land. We celebrate the stories that are weaving themselves and emerging. And in that, we teach ourselves that it's actually essential to honor and Revere. That which makes us men. There's a lot of people that want to say, men are this men or that men are bad this year. Cool. All right. Boring. I'm done with that. We're here to celebrate the beauty and the essence of man. Without it, humanity wouldn't exist. It's just how it is. You need a man. You need a woman to have a baby. Therefore, the lineage continues. You can't have it. You can't. You can't have humans without men. You can't have humans without women. So we're both essential. But we're not the same. So that's a huge thing, is celebrating the things that make us men, and letting the men know that it is actually essential for them to be who they are. The third piece is camaraderie, which is brotherhood. And we believe that brotherhood is the medicine. So many men listen to podcasts, read books, try to do the work on their own. And this issue is, is that they're still trying to fix themselves or understand themselves without the actual support of being held. So brotherhood provides that containment that allows you to let go of control of your life. And when you let go of control, you can start to unravel. And when you unravel, you start to find the places within yourself that you have hidden from the world. Brotherhood gives you a place to be witnessed and to refine and to bring that through in a safe way, so that when you go back, you can then share this part of you with your woman, with your work, with your children. And it's not as raw or as volatile as it once was. A lot of the stuff that I've brought through in this space with men I couldn't bring through with you because it's actually too volatile. It's actually too unbecoming that for you to hold that on your own is not appropriate. Some of the processes that I've been through, and the releases that I've had have required ten, 15 men to hold me in place physically, spiritually, emotionally. So camaraderie, Brotherhood is the essential structure that allows this work to actually stick without it. None of it could happen. This challenge in the celebration, none of it could happen without the essence of brotherhood. So for me, that is the the the essential piece. Yeah. Is there anything else that I need to share on around that. The, the pieces like. Yeah. And with, with those, those three pillars, it then invites us to embrace them as we are developing and creating the gathering. And so what's challenging for me is to continually find new ways to bring in like textures or, or or perspectives of what it means to be a man. So we don't just do wrestling, we have poetry in storytelling. So we have Leon come in and he weaves mythical meaning to the very practical part of the work. So throughout the entire four days, we continually going on a journey of what it means to go on on this journey of man from a mythical lens. He tells stories and weaves this imaginary world so beautifully. So we have something to we have deep roots. We're not just on the surface. We have wanting to come and dance with us, and he teaches us how to move our bodies in a way that is more representative of what artistic expression than it is around. What does it mean to be a man, a strong man, a very, you know, a high value man? You know, wanting us shows us that there is a whole other world available to us through our body when we actually allow our authentic expression, our art, to move us. So that's a whole other you know, you guys just told me that they like that was the thing that got me. And I was like, bro, I'm, you know, thank you. That's exactly like I can't believe I had no idea that that was that. I could, I could move like that. It's like amazing. And then we have this year we have Murray Kyle coming to Yeah. To lead us in a, to resuscitate the authentic voice of humanity. Is that his line? That's his line I love that, yeah. He speaks so beautifully. Yeah. Let alone sing. Is he going to do, like, a voice activation? Yeah. So we do it. So it's called Voices of Man, where he's going to teach us all how to access our hearts. And then channel that through our voice so we will, you know, utilize the heartbeat of brotherhood as the as the baseline. And then we will collectively harmonize and create the authentic expression of the gathering of men through song. And that is something that I'm, I, you know, I'm so passionate about music and singing because for so many men, they're so quickly to to use their hands to get things done. It's like, what if song could actually move things? What if your voice could move things? What if there was a more easeful, more graceful way to allow ourselves the experience of emotional alchemy? And that's why a song can be such a powerful, powerful part of the journey. So we've got that, and then we've got 15 facilitators that are going to be delivering their own specific workshop in Windows of Time over the weekend, and you'll get to go along and choose different things. And we've got three key categories where we're going to have guys teaching, relationships. We're going to have guys providing transformative breakthrough experiences. So different ways that you can like, break through and have your, I guess a rite of passage within the overarching, retreat. And then we've also got education. So we've got guys coming in and educating you on, we've got, bennies to an emotional mastery. We've got, another guy teaching on grounded spirituality, another that God teaching on consciousness. And it's like all these other things that, we really want you guys to get educated as well as have, like, really, really incredible experiences. We want to, you know, we want to feed your mind, your body and your soul. I love that layer because that was only fresh last year, wasn't it? Like the, the, the workshops that you get to choose from. And just like, because there's so many collective experiences and some big experiences and incredible celebratory things and the music and the magical and all these different things, but then to like, pick and choose, it's like, oh, actually, I want to come and I want to learn how to love my woman really well. I want to learn how to clean up my relationship and, you know, be more, you know, open hearted in that. Okay, I'm going to go to Lindsay's workshop. So I said, there's Charlie doing something. Is doing it. Yeah. An epic, communication and attachment style. So like, he's got he's he's on a genius. So there's so many ways in which he can, get what you need from this, this, this four days. And, you know, so many people might look at men's work as this one little window, but for me, it's this window to ultimate possibility. Men's work really is such a beautifully, named thing. It's not just breathwork. It's not just relationships. It's not just, meditation. It's it gives us essentially the the opportunity to do whatever the fuck we want. Provided that it is governed by a set of principles that ensure that men are valued, women are safe, and children have a can play. And that's the the essential framework that we have is like, does this make this does this honor that men are valuable? Yes. Does this ensure that women will be safer? Yes. And does this allow children to actually play and be children? Yes. Okay, cool. Then it's men's work. Then it's serving the actual, prayer that we all in some way, in our own words, carry. Is there anything else you want to speak into. Like anything I know, I don't want to give too much away because I want the men coming to also just you know, not know everything that's awaiting them. Oh yeah. You know. Experience food as good as this at any other retreat. Yeah. We we we, That's an upgrade. Yeah. If you came a few years ago, this. Is. A trillion times better. You see, we we we we started slow and we we stuck to our guns with organic and that's, you know, that's a big part of this is you know, I spoke about quality. It's like if I compromise on the quality of the food then I'm compromising on my values. So we provide organic meals every day, cooked fresh on site over the coals, like on fire. From an incredible team of volunteers led by our wonderful chef Yosuke. Yes. Skate. And he'll be back. And he's got, he likes to take us around the world. You definitely. Seen. Yeah. And he's, Yeah, he's passionate about, you know, the food. Not just being a nice to have. It is an essential part of the experience. So all of this food is curated to reflect where you're at on the journey over the four days. And that's, that's something that I'm super passionate about. I'm making sure that the food is in service to the experience, not just to, we have to have food, so we'll just feed you whatever. We're going to make sure this food is we've taken the time to not just focus on the quality of the food, but how the food adds to the quality of the entire experience. I love that so much. And your dad is in the kitchen in the kitchen, and you're running this year. This will be his third year. He'll be. Everyone loves John is the entity. You know John. You know who he is? The he's the mascot. He's what? What I love about it is that, he has he like, because he's in our world, it's just like it consumes him, and it's. And it's a beautiful thing to see him consumed by guys that just don't give a fuck about, personal space. Like, it's like, intimacy is so like, he's such a just a, you know, we we respect each other's boundaries, of course, but, like, we don't respect the story that you are holding on to. We will lean into that and we'll press against it. And, dad says that he gets like, his quota of physical touch, his annual, quota of physical touch, just in that in the first, in the first day and then the next three days, he's got to endure it. But on some level, it's like for him, it's a place where, you know, I asked, I don't need him to be there, but I asked for his help and he said yes. And in him offering his help, he's also able to receive something that, you know, he he doesn't necessarily get in anywhere else in his life, which is this feeling of being valued and also, slightly, you know, getting challenged as well by the all of it. You know, Keegan just won't leave him alone, can you? Just wants to cuddle him all the time. And it's so funny. And so it is raw. And I just want to just jump, jump all over him and just continually touch him and like, that's, you know, for someone who's in his 60s now, it's like, that's that can be a really, really necessary part of, of, of a man's life is like physical touch. It's like the young cubs, you know. Yeah, it's annoying, but it's a it's actually feeding a part of, the needs of a man, which is to feel wanted, to feel needed and to feel valued, and that's it. And that's, you know, the sense of belonging is that is why I think the gathering of men works so well in the way that it does, and why so many men come back each year and give their time and their energy to the cause. Yeah. And I just love that you're and I think this speaks to what the Gathering of Men really stands for. But your dad is, like, not in the world. The the what you play in, in terms of just, you know, all the things we're into. And so the gathering and is kind of outside his comfort zone and yet and he doesn't understand a lot of things that go on. And yet he's so and he's so you know, he also can really just see even sometimes he's just like, I don't get it. But he can see the transformation in the men, and he can see how deeply important this work is for men. And I think this is just a really important piece to speak into. It's like, yeah, there's not. And you kind of spoke to this before. There's not just like one, you don't have to be like ultra spiritual to join this. You don't have to be super fucking fit. You know, you don't have to be anything at all if you're a man, you're welcome. And I think that again, like you said, it shows the full texture and and all the different, you know, textures of men that get to be weaved into the full fabric of manhood. And, yeah, I think. When you look around like, God, there's some funny looking people in this world, like, look around you, look at it, and then you look at it. Or you may say, like, we are all so weird and wonderful and amazing. It's like we're all funny with different shapes and sizes. We've got different smiles and different haircuts and, different clothes on. But at the core of it, when we strip away all of the story, all of the, you know, who we think we are, we're all men and we all, you know, deeply care about the world. And we all want to do better. Like there's a genuine when you strip away all of the the weight and the burden that, you know, so many men carry, like there's this genuine a like a heartbeat and that happy when we all spend time together actually synchronizes and we all start to see the things that make us who we are as individuals. But we also see beneath that. We start to see. We start to see the qualities that make us men. And that is what creates a shared value system. And when you have a shared value system, you can then start to share your stories. And when you start to share your stories, not from a place of I'm the victim, but from hey, this is what I've traversed. You start to you start to create wisdom. And when you have wisdom, you start to see the the roots of a culture deepen into the soil. And then you start to feel the foundations for communities to be built and to thrive. So for me, this is just the beginning of a culture that is wanting to be birthed. And I don't know if it's, you know, I don't know if the gathering of men is going to last. I don't know what's happening next year. I don't know what happened in ten years time. I just know that all we can do is continually feed the, you know, the emerging culture that we want to see in this world. And, you know, at the end of my days, I hope that that's I know that that will be enough, but I hope that I get to see some level of change on, on, on a level that means something to the world, in my lifetime. And if I don't, I'll trust that the next generation will pick it up and run with it in a way that it feels right. And it might not be called the gathering. It meant it might not be done as men's work. It might be something completely different. But we have I know I have to be open to, to continually evolving and changing. Otherwise I'm just trying to force my control onto the world and saying that this is how it has to look, when in actual fact, it's a feeling. It's a living, breathing entity. Culture. Culture is not stagnant. Culture is not static. It is a it is a continual turning of the soil that feeds the wisdom of humans, that then allows communities to, to, to, to, to, to receive what they need to ensure that humanity doesn't just survive, but it actually enjoys the experience of being human to enjoy and embrace and and live a life that is one of contentment. Big picture stuff. When he said you might not see it in your lifetime, I would say, I know many men, that I know many homes and families that have already be transformed by the gathering of men and the work that you do, and then just the whole vision that you hold and all the men that are involved in this work and, yeah, it's it's already happening. And yeah, I know many, many women that have messaged me after the men have been to the gathering of men and, you know, the last you and I had our son during the gathering of men and men, found our address from people and stopped by just to bring you gifts, to say thank you for creating that, even though you weren't even there. Like, thank you for creating that and creating such a transformational experience for men and yeah, it's it's such an honor. It has been such an honor. And so and I've been so, so in awe over the last four years to watch you create this and watch you become so much bigger than you. And yeah, I'm just so proud of you, so proud of the men involved. And and I always we've joked about this before, but, a lot of the single women in my world want to line up outside the gates of the gathering of men as the men finish the four days and the single men commune to one side, so they know who's been freshly initiated. Should I dress up as Cupid day after the other men and hold a little? Should I do that? The single men, the men desiring love can stay one extra night and the women arrive. The next single women arrive the next day and. Here they are. They, choose. We do like a bachelor, freshly initiate style. Maybe it's a love is blind kind of situation, and I can host it because that's my favorite show. I promise men that that will never happen. The amount of women that, oh, I don't think any man ever asked for this is any. No, no men have ever. It to the women that asked like, can you please do a date night? Can you please do it any night? And I don't think any man has ever asked. I think we've had probably close to 50 or 60 women ask us to do that. Yeah, I love that desire. Women do not start with that desire. It's not something we want to do any time soon, but maybe in the future. Yeah. And it's, it's all unfolding exactly as it's meant to. So, like, for the men that, you know, the women that are aching for their men to come along like, you're, you're gifting that is to is to reveal that, not to hold it back and only go. Will you go? I hope you get it. So you get to reveal it. You say, hey my love, I would really love to see you go along to something like this because it looks like it's really valuable for, for, for, for men to do this stuff. And I know that you I know that there's things that you that I can't help you with. This is the place you have to be humble enough to know that you don't know better. But you can see that this something that your your partner is desiring, that he can't get on his own or in your relationship. And I think there is such an art to inviting a man to something like this. And where I kind of like, we are not for coaching you, man. We are not. So like trying to tell him what to do. And if you really see this would be really beautiful for your man to be a part of. Yeah, you get to invite it, but not from a place of you need this because you need to be more masculine, or you need this because I need you to be different. So our relationship is better. I know it can come from your heart. It can come from like, I can really see how powerful this would be for for you and our family and or I really I would, I would love to see you go to this. I think it would just be such a gift for you to take for days, just for yourself. I'm ready to hold it down at home with the children. Like, please go and choose this for yourself. Like that can be a real generous way in which you invite him. I always have women asking, right, how do I do this in a way where he's not going to feel like I'm coaching him and and you can never control how he receives it, but there's definitely the the energetic behind your invitation is so important. Yeah, 100%, 100%. And final pieces are. Just for the men that you know, that, that are sitting on the fence or that are wondering, you know, well, maybe I'll go next cuz it's like there's there's a beautiful thing, when a man takes a risk on himself, like when he bets, when he backs himself and takes a risk. There's a beautiful thing that the universe provides. He provides you exactly what you need to deepen into a greater version of yourself. And that greater version of yourself is literally just on the other side of you taking that risk. It might not. It might happen before you even get to the gathering. A man, but to to take, you know, to take your hard earned money and, and to dedicate four days of your time and to cultivate your energy to come and, you know, engage with this work. It's a it's a beautiful sacrifice. It's a beautiful thing to make sacred. And, you know, we we run this. We run this event really in, in service to you and what you really want to give the world. And for us, we charge $999, which if you break that up over four days, it's, it's 250 bucks a day, and there's not a lot of places leading, see, including food. And and you bring. I think we've spoken about accommodation, but do you want to just sneak into. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like you get to camp on a really beautiful piece of land, like, you bring a tent and or a swag or a mattress or whatever van or whatever, and you come and you get to spend time unplugged from society, away from the noise of technology, and you get to literally plug in to the natural source of living energy, which is Mother Nature, you to plug into the true source, the infinite source, the one that will always have enough for you to thrive. And I just think that there's such a, there's such a belief around, like, personal development and this idea that people are just out to take your money, like, yeah, we're going to take some of your money. That's that's a reality you have to pay to play. But that money is in service to you, that that sacrifice is in service to you. And we've priced it accordingly so that we can maintain this work. And we can make this work regenerative for everyone that's involved. But we're not here to line our pockets with gold. We're not here to say, hey, look, we've done the greatest work in the world. We're here to serve the deeper prayer. And we know that this work, the real, the real, measure and success of this work is the type of neighbor that you are, the type of husband that you are, the type of father that you are when you go home. Not what you know. Yeah. Cool. You you do a great job at the retreat. Awesome. But the real result is the type of husband, father, friend, neighbor, colleague that you are. When you go back and you're in the world and you're practicing all that you've developed at the four days, that's when we that's how we really measure our success. Is is the culture forming and is it serving those? That are here to receive from it, which is men, women and children. Gathering men. To the six of October 2025. 44 days away from this recording. Yes, gold Coast hinterland link is here in the show notes. Or just find Jacob on Instagram and the link is in his bio. Or just message him the gathering of men or to God and he'll send you the details. I think you guys are almost 50% sold out. Yeah, and a lot of the tickets went like in the last month, last year. So yeah, don't sleep on getting a ticket. There's only space for 200 men this year. Yeah, like 200 men, which will be like 250 men on the land if you guys sell out. Yeah. It's gonna it's. Yes. It's going to be fun like it. It's it's it's it's it's it's it's life changing and it can be life changing. And you, you get to enjoy this. Like, you can pretend like it. I know I'm the worst for this. I'm like, oh God, I got to. I've got to go out and. And you get to get excited about this. It's a fucking fun time. There's nothing like this in the in the world. I believe like for men. And we've done it in a way that is affordable and, accessible and, and super, super fun. Like, we don't we don't we don't get lost in the darkness. We don't get lost in the woe is me. This is. Yeah. You've got to become the hardened battle warrior. Now. We want you to dance. We want you to recite poetry. We want you to feast. We want you to be who you always have been. And we're just here to help you remember that. Thank you. Thank you. This has been a great interview. Thank you. You'd be an incredible journalist. I always wanted to be a journalist. Yeah, you're my little journalist. I am your little journalist. Is this meeting adjourned? I was trying to think of, like, a dirty word I could say as a journalist, I'll be your notepad. And I'll use my pencil to draw all of you. Yeah, okay. My HD, I mean, HB pencil. It. Dick was actually a gay, beautiful human. Thank you. This is really cathartic for me. I've needed to speak about this, and I haven't really had this space, so thanks for allowing me to take up a lot of room on this podcast. I love you so much. I love you, piece. Yo yo yo, thank. You so much for tuning in to another episode of sex, love and everything in between. Now, if you'd like to stay connected with Megan AI, you can head on over to Instagram and follow me at the Jacob O'Neil. And where can people find you love on. At the Dot? Megan. Oh amazing. And yeah, guys, check out the show notes for all other information in regards to what we've got coming up. And yeah, we're super, super grateful that you guys have taken the time to listen in to this podcast. If you do have any topics or any questions, like I said, hit us up on Instagram and we'll see what we can do. Apart from that, have a beautiful. Beautiful rest of your day. Thanks for being. Here. Big, big love.