Why Men Are Terrified of Love: The Truth About the Manosphere

The TRUTH About the Manosphere, Toxic Masculinity, and True Masculine Leadership

Welcome back lovers! In this spicy and deeply raw episode of Sex, Love and Everything In Between, we are unpacking the cultural phenomenon of the "Manosphere" and the modern crisis of toxic masculinity.

After watching a recent documentary on the topic, we had to take the conversation to the mics. We explore the stark difference between immature, fear-based control and mature, service-led masculine leadership. Why are so many men terrified of vulnerability? Why does our culture push the narrative that it isn't safe for men to feel?

We dive deep into the psychology of the "little boy" searching for his father's validation through money, status, and control, and how this spiritual dehydration is impacting relationships, women, and the next generation of young boys. Most importantly, Jacob shares his profound insights from men's work, highlighting the incredible healing power of emotional safety, brotherhood, and bringing deep presence back into the home.

If you are a man wanting to step into your true power, a woman desiring deep leadership in partnership, or a parent raising boys in today's world—this episode is for you.

What We Cover:

• The dangerous illusion of the "Manosphere" and red-pill culture.
• True masculine leadership vs. dictatorship in relationships.
• Why suppressing emotions destroys intimacy and true connection.
• The deep "spiritual dehydration" driving the pursuit of money, cars, and status.
• How fathers can protect young boys and heal the culture by simply being present.

Let’s Connect! If you loved this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your lover or friends.

Episode Highlights & Key Takeaways:

• [00:00 - 03:00] Intro & Catching Up: Jacob and Meg check in from "cloud nine," talking about their current spiritual era, before diving into the heavy topic of the day: the manosphere and toxic masculinity.
• [03:00 - 07:00] The Illusion of Leadership: Meg breaks down a triggering quote from the manosphere, explaining why a man acting like a "dictator" is not the true masculine leadership that women actually yearn for. Mature leadership is in service to a partner's nervous system.
• [07:00 - 11:30] Leading with Fear vs. Connection: Jacob explains how the inability to be vulnerable causes men to lead with fear and control. We discuss the lack of relational attunement and the "frenetic feminine energy" of constantly needing to be stimulated.
• [11:30 - 17:30] The Myth of the Stoic Man: Should men hide their emotions from their partners? Jacob explains the difference between emotional dumping and true emotional containment. We discuss the vital importance of men having a safe brotherhood to process decades of pain so they can bring tenderness back to their relationships.
• [17:30 - 24:00] Terrified of Love & The "Daddy" Wound: Jacob dissects how a lack of emotional safety leads men to chase material wealth, cars, and status. We explore how these outward displays of dominance are often just a wounded little boy begging for a father's validation and attention.
• [24:00 - 35:00] Changing the Culture of Men: How do we shift away from this? It starts with presence. Jacob shares beautiful stories from his men's work retreats and everyday life, emphasizing that men don't need to be hardened—they need to be seen, held, and allowed to have emotional range.
• [35:00 - 45:30] Protecting the Next Generation: The conversation turns to parenting. Meg and Jacob discuss the critical role of the father's presence in the home to protect the innocence of young boys. Why true success isn't about working yourself to the bone for material things, but serving at the "sacred altar" of your dinner table.
• [45:30 - End] Outro & Call to Action: Final thoughts on finding freedom in connection rather than consumption. Don't forget to subscribe and follow Jacob and Meg on Instagram!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You know, it's it's continuing this cultural narrative of like men aren't allowed to feel and it's not safe for men to feel.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

When they say men don't see a partner, what they're saying is don't force your partner to be a therapist to feel it. But if we rub the pattern of what we're feeling, then we actually rub the ballot connected to us. We rub the bullet connected like they want to feel it. Yo lovers, welcome to Sex Love and Everything in Between with Jacob and Meg.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

This is the place we have real, raw, very deep and sometimes incredibly spicy conversations about relationships and sex. Let's get into it. Enjoy the episode.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Hey lover.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Hi.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

How are you doing? I'm great. You are so good. Am I? You are. You are beaming.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Am I? You're loving your life, aren't you? I'm really loving my life. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:54

I'm I'm up there with you. I've joined you on Cloud Nine. I've joined you on Cloud Nine. I'm I'm team grateful. I'm team love and light 1111. We are back in our spiritual era.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Yeah, we are.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

We are releasing ebooks. We are doing photo shoots again. We have got affirmations all over our walls.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

We are listening to Abraham Hicks 24-7.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

It's good to be in a great place with you. Yeah, it is. Yeah. What are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_01 1:25

We're talking about the manosphere.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yuck. Toxic masculinity.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Yeah. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

No, I'm excited to have this conversation. I think it's an important one.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

So many people have messaged me and be like, what do you think? And I'm like, it's so easy to react to something and be on the hype train. But it actually kind of I went really internal with it around like, well, this is a product of the environment that these men have been exposed to, and now they're trying to give these other men something that they obviously didn't get. So like I was like really, I felt like a bit of a mad scientist actually, like trying to understand the complexity of it and not just jump on the oh, these guys are the bad guys, and hey, I'm over here doing the good men's work, but they're doing the bad stuff. I was like, actually, where does this sit in my body? Where does this sit in my work? Where can I actually start to see the the part of me that exists within their movements? And it was like a really I was like, let me hold up the mirror here. Let me actually see where I'm where my judgment of them is actually me not taking a good hard look at myself as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Oh, okay. That's not where I thought this conversation was going.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

No, I'm it we can go there, but I'm also excited to see where it goes. Well where is it going?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Well, for anyone that does when we say the manosphere, we watched the Louis Thoreau podcast on the manosphere. Yes. Um, probably like six weeks or so ago now. So I feel like when I watched it, I was ready to spit fire. So hopefully that's fire is still alive. It's still in there. I can feel it.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

It's here, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

And I was uh are you just happy for me to dive in? Yeah, you go. Um I was launching at the time my program called The Claimed Woman, which is really a program all around you know, supporting women to feel deeply met and deeply led in partnership, right? So it's for the women that are wanting, yeah, to feel more of like their man's masculine power and leadership. And so in in the time that I was watching the Manosphere Docco came out, I was, you know, having all of these conversations. I just run a masterclass called Evoke His Leadership, you know, having lots of these conversations around leadership and this being with this desire many women have for leadership. And there was this line, and I did a reel about it on Instagram. There was this line one of them said in it. It was like, and I'm I'm not even gonna try and repeat it. Um, and it was like disgusting, but it was basically like, you know, a true man, like um I'll tell her to make sandwich, like when I want a sandwich, I'll tell it, like she'll go, I'll tell her to go make a sandwich. When I want to fuck, like I'll tell her we're fucking. Like basically just saying I'm and he said, That's that's what all women want, a dictator. Um, like that's true leadership. That's that's what all women want. And yeah, it was just like, oh, it sparked this like deep, deep rage within me. Um because of, again, like I I use the word lead, and a lot of women that come into my world desire to be led, but that is not what I'm fucking talking about. And that is not what the women that truly yearn for a man's leadership are fucking talking about, right? It's not like true masculine leadership that women yearn for is in service to them. Right? Like the immature masculine truly believes leadership is just I'm gonna tell a woman to do whatever I want her to do. It's self-serving. I want a sandwich, go make me a fucking sandwich. I wanna, I wanna come, come and be like, you know, fucking flesh light for me.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

And so it's all self-serving. It's all like what, like I'm I'm using you. You're like you're a toy, you're this thing that I get to have to um get my get my needs and desires met.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Right? It's so the leadership is you're gonna do what I say so that I get what I want. That's not the fucking leadership that women want. And that's not the leadership that expand, truly expands a man into the depth of, you know, masculine practice practice and like, you know, yeah, masculine power. Like that, that kind of leadership, mature masculine leadership, I believe, is in service to the feminine. It is in service to her nervous system. It is offering her direction and containment and leadership in a way that supports her to relax, to be more in her body. Yeah, to feel safer, to feel more alive. Yeah, it is it is deeply of service to the feminine. So that was one of the biggest things that I like just got me fired the fuck up from watching the Manispeed Dogo. And just how these men, and I know there's so much out there, like very dogmatic, black and white kind of polarity teachings, and people that take things and you know, just just make them very fucking black and white. That yeah, um a woman should surrender, a man should lead, and then you know, take it as that. Like that's that's not that's not the depth of the teachings of polarity at all. And that's not the depth of what I truly believe a woman wants when she says she desires deep leadership.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Leadership requires a level of vulnerability that these men are terribly afraid of. So when we see a man who is stepping into a position of power that is afraid of vulnerability, he will only ever lead with fear. And leading with fear means that we must have control over others. And this is what we're seeing the idea of a dictatorship is that I am in control of you, not I am in devotion to you. And this is where we see the lack of relational attunement in these men. They're not in a relationship because a relationship would require them to connect, and they are not connecting. And if you're not connected, then you can't fully feel what impact you are having on the other person. And the thing that I was tracking in that documentary was the the woman's nervous system. She does not feel safe. She feels scared, so she is acting in a way that will keep her safe. She doesn't feel safe to relax.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Are you talking about the women, like the partnership? Yeah. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

And these men can give the woman all the Louis Vuitton and the Range Rover and the big house and all these things, but all of that is hollow because he's not actually giving her the one thing that would g that that a man is here to give to a woman, which is presence. And yeah, it made me so I just felt sad that this is what men believe happiness is, what they believe success is, what they believe fulfillment is. And what I noticed was all of these men spoke incredibly quickly. They were all fast speaking men, which tells me that they lack depth. They are men that have to continually be on the move and stimulated to have some sense of self. There's no depth, there's no stillness, there's really not a whole lot of masculinity going on. For me, it's a lot of frenetic feminine energy in them, which is very much related to the little boy that needs to always have something and do something and be something to someone else. And it made me upset that our society doesn't have appropriate phases that men can transition into, that we don't prioritize this for men. And that we let these men fall through the cracks, and then when they don't get the warmth and the love and the nourishment, they then go and lead these movements which are in really designed to tear down the fabric of culture. And the worst part is is that the the people or the the women and children that they say they are here to protect, they actually do the most damage toward. And it's almost as if they are allowed to do whatever they want, but then everyone else has to do what they say. It's do it do as I say, not as I do, which is that what got us into this whole fucking problem anyway. A lack of embodiment, a lack of being in it in the practice of integrity. So these men, whilst they may be successful, whilst they may be uh loud and uh shiny and fast and uh on trend, they aren't in integrity. Their behavior and their businesses are out of integrity. So they have to then be in control over their home life because if they actually if you really knew them, if they were really to open up and share what was really going on in all areas of their life, we would see an incredibly big gap between what they say is true and what they are actually living.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Can I ask you a question?

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

I feel like in I'm I'm assuming that this would very much be in the manosphere kind of uh you know, world and belief system. And then I know there's some men's work, maybe not even men's work, but some male coaches that believe this that men shouldn't show their emotions to their woman and they shouldn't express or share their emotions with their woman. Can you give me your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Men should practice containment so they can share their emotions in a way that serves them, their partner in their relationship. So the one thing that we say, like that is so important is can you plug yourself into a nervous system outside of your relationship so you can process what is what you've been carrying. So when like when a man like that, a dickhead life coach that doesn't know shit, they these guys do my fucking head in, when they say, Oh man, don't show emotions to your partner, what they're saying is don't force your partner to be your therapist and your healer. Like if you've got 20 years of fucking backed up emotions and you bring that to your relationship, that is not going to create a sense of safety, it's not going to create a sense of polarity, and it's going to create this sense of caretaker and child. So, what I believe they're trying to say, which they're not doing very well, is like, hey, do your work, do the inner work.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

And then you can bring yourself fully to the relationship. And if your wife's beauty moves you to tears, if your son does something and like it makes you feel something, you can feel it in the moment, you're in relationship with what's alive here, and then you can feel that. And if it's tears, it's tears. If it's frustration, it's frustration. If it's joy, it's joy. If it's grief, it's grief. But if we rob our partners of our of what we're feeling, then we actually rob them of a connection to us. We rob them of the connection, like they want to feel us. That so do your inner work, find a group of men that you that can hold you. And you know, I've held a lot of men through the deepest, darkest processes. And if we didn't have 25 men around that man, holding him in place, literally plugging him into our nervous systems and holding him in the in the safety of brotherhood so he could release this this torrent of and of heaviness that he's carried for these guys are carrying 30, 40 years of pain. That is where you take that to the brotherhood, and then you bring the okay, the the the the tenderness that is now available, the the gentleness that is now available to your relationship.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

That was really beautiful. Because I feel, and and we've had conversations on this in the past, that there is, and and I think I you f I feel this is manosphere related, or that kind of like, you know, yeah. Um that it's like, yeah, a man, like this stoicism, like a man shouldn't shouldn't bring any emotion. Um, that that is yeah, that's gonna kill a relationship, that that's not what a woman needs. You should never really share your emotion with her. And I just really truly feel like that is like keeping men holding them as that little boy that was told, don't fucking cry, your emotions aren't welcome. It's not safe for you to feel. And I just that's that's heartbreaking to me now as a mother of a son. And I truly believe some of my favorite, you know, most like life-giving moments in our relationship has been, you know, watching you ball your eyes out or like holding you as you're feeling a sense of grief, or you know, or or move to beauty, or seeing you so deeply in your heart you are just like radiating with gratitude or crying with gratitude. Like that, you know, that that that is also that that creates such a depth of intimacy. And it just, it just yeah, makes me so sad that there is a culture that you know it's it's continuing this cultural narrative of like men aren't allowed to feel, and it's not safe for men to feel. And it's just to finish sorry, go on, yeah. I was just gonna say, one of it has been the deepest privilege in our marriage to be a safe space for you and to support you as a man to remember your fucking birthright of safety, emotional safety, and to uh be a part of that healing for you and offer you a space where your emotion is welcome, like you as a man that deeply feels is so welcome here. That's been just such the deepest privilege for me.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

That like men like love isn't safe. Yeah, like that's what's going on. The menosphere is on the myth of that love isn't safe. Yeah. So why would I be intimate with you if love isn't safe? Doesn't matter if you were you know you you are the perfect on all on paper everything. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. I've got I've got all the money, I've got the I've got the the the body, I've got the cars, I've got now I've got the wife and I've got the kids. If I don't feel safe, and if love doesn't feel safe based on my upbringing and all of the experiences that I've had, then I will not be able to connect with you. I will not be able to let you love the parts of me that I'm still hiding away. Uh that's tragic. Unbelievably so because then men will go and try and earn that love in dishonorable ways. That's why we have the Amazon being cut down, that's why we have horrible, ugly buildings going up every which way. That's why we don't have a deep reverence for for life because we're terrified of love, and love is the thing that sustains life. It's not just biological. These men are like deeply spiritually dehydrated, spiritually dehydrated. And what I say and why I say that is, and and I'm not going to apologize anymore for going on the spiritual tangents because that's what I love. Go for it. And I love myself. But realistically, in in the mytho, like poetic and the mythological uh lens that a lot of the men's work we are doing with Embodied Man Institute looks through. It's a woman is a reflection of your soul. And if you don't trust a woman to love you, then you won't ever trust your own soul, the deeper part of you. So you'll always need to be in your head controlling the outcome. You'll never actually rest into life. So you'll never actually truly receive. You'll consume, but you won't receive. So you'll consume, it'll be like you'll need the things that feed you but don't nourish you. There's a huge difference here. This is like when you eat fast food and you still feel hungry. When you watch porn, but you don't ever really feel that sense of love. When you buy, when you reach a new target in your business, but then a new target appears. All of these perpetual uh reachings that these men have is like maybe at the on the other side of this, maybe through this I'll get the feeling that I'm looking for. But if you do not have safety registered in your nervous system, if love inherently hasn't been safe in your upbringing, you will become one of these men that essentially sets the village on fire just to feel its warmth. You'll destroy the thing that is there to love you. And you will use the thing that is there to love you.

SPEAKER_03 19:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Just like you said, these men expect women to make them a sandwich, give them a blowjob. It's like these men are essentially wanting a servant that will feed them, like their mother, and then they want to masturbate with a woman's body. That and that's that's that that's that's it's it's it's it's a tragedy because that's not if you really did the work, the internal work. That's why when we see these men trying to control women, they're actually trying to control the inf the eternal, they're trying to control their soul, and the soul cannot be contained. That's the beautiful thing about this. It's like these men will attempt, but they will never succeed because the soul is greater than any worldly limited belief that they have. So realistically, like the manosphere for me is just actually a um it's kind of like uh a warning light. Hey, if we keep doing this, things are gonna have to get harder and worse off for us to actually come back to what is already here, which is the beauty of connection.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Yeah. What do you think? Like you were talking about that um that you know, if love like love isn't safe, this is a lot of of a lot of those men in the manosphere, like love isn't safe to them. Would you also say there's like a piece? Because when I was watching the the Docker, I'm like, these are little boys, just like desperate for daddy's attention or desperate for mommy's attention, whoever it is. Yep. And there's still these are little boys in the bodies of men being like, Daddy, look at look at the look at the shiny car I got, look at the other shiny car I got, look how many women I have. Like, it's the whole, the whole, their whole existence is just look at me, look at me. Like, am I enough? Look at me, validate me, validate me.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Daddy, see me. Daddy, daddy, have you seen what I've done? Daddy, look at my daddy, look what I did at at at school today. Daddy, daddy, did you see me? Oh, dad, no, no, dad dad's not at no dad's not coming to sport today. Dad's not coming, oh no, dad's not gonna be at graduation. Oh no, dad dad's, dad's, dad's, dad's got other things on. He's working hard for the family. No, he's not. He's avoiding his responsibility because he probably didn't get it either. And now we've got all of these young men that are like searching for their dad's attention in all the wrong. places. They're doing whatever they can to get some level of attention from other men.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

It that's what it feels it it is. It's a daddy's attention because it's not for watching that too, it was like these cars aren't for women. These, these like all of it and and the I have a wife and she's monogamous, but I'm gonna go and fuck as many women as I want to. That's not for women. That's not that's I want to show all the other men look at all my fucking trophies. Look at look at how like validate me, see me, look at me, look at me. Like it is, it's like this yeah big dick swinging competition.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Do you all of it? Um I'm reading an incredible book called Matrimony and matrimony is the mothering of culture. And they were it was either in that book or I was listening to I'm obsessed with old dudes at the moment. Martin Prechtel and Steven Jenkson but he says a lot of ancient cultures didn't have a whole lot of counting because they only ever carried what they could in their hands. Right? They don't they never ever had to like have all of these grand things to uh to prove themselves to anyone. It's like oh I've got one apple in this hand and one apple in that hand cool I've got two apples I don't need to count to 30. I don't need to have all of these things to prove that I have enough I trust that I will be able to create enough in that process and I just think that's such a I think these young men are just trying to gather all of these things to prove hey look finally see me look at all my trophies look at all my awards look at all these things that I've done so that you'll love me so that you you'll say I'm proud of you that I'm good enough for you where does out because this is a cultural thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

This isn't just that documentary and the five or six men that were shown in that and what was so I just did not understand the degree to which these men and this whole manosphere is a culture and there are like some of them have millions of followers and you know majority like in this documentary if some of these men were being stopped in the street it was always like 13 14 year old boys which was terrifying for me now as a mother of a a boy you know to be like what like the this is the narrative and these are the values being instilled in in these boys so like as you know you you do such deep work and you work with men every day but like culturally like where do we go from here?

SPEAKER_00 24:35

It's a shift in like it it's a shift back to well not back to it's a remembering of our role in in the home and in the community. We're not just valuable for the money that we make or the material possessions that we uh gather it's our presence that is val is of value to the ones around us. So for young boys it means that we have a responsibility to their nervous systems and to their wiring. Yes. Like this is this is what I've like I was saying I've been speaking to the guys about I'm like the only thing that my son needs to know is that it's safe to be him that's all he needs to know. He doesn't need to know about whether he's allowed to cry or not if he wants to cry he cries. Like this idea that we must mould men into these hardened stoic numbing them of anything that what it means to be human. We need to reinstall beauty in their lives reinstall like music and dance and song I love what they say about in many ancient cultures there was no um there was no word for warrior or singer or dancer it was you were just a man that's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

So I think that and the range of men yeah like I know our friend Keegan was talking about this the other day like I don't think that's spoken about enough like men holding range and having range like being able to sing and dance and be in pleasure and ecstasy and also fight and fuck and you know all the things.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Yeah and when we we we need more grounded centered men with the ability to hold very very wide views like I and and bel and and like what I mean by this is like we need to be able to not push these men away these these menace fear men we don't need to label them wrong would be easy. To make them the bad guys would be easy but then that means we're the good guys so then we're not allowed to fuck up either we have to always be perfect.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

What we are do what we have what we're really asking to do is reinstall a sense of humanity amongst ourselves and yeah this is so even though there was so much of that documentary that had me just like in such deep rage and I think that obviously these men need to be held accountable and and responsible for you know the the actions that they're having yeah um and this is like this is so deeply woven into our culture this is a symptom of of the sickness of our culture. Yes and I I know this is such a deep thing like I'm just seeing you know this in a wider perspective and we have these conversations all the time but like the work you do with men like you work with a lot of fathers you know a lot of men that come to the gathering of men are fathers and the deep healing work that you do with them the transformational work like allows them to have more availability in their nervous system which then has them going home to their sons or daughters and being more available to them. Like they're they're going to be the their children are going to feel a deeper like felt sense of their father's presence like that is healing to all of all of these symptoms that have created the manosphere right if a man feels safe to be himself then everyone feels safe to be himself.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Yeah uh man feels safe then the women and children are going to feel safe it's it's a by a man's safe like the byproduct of a man feeling safe to be himself is is a thriving healthy community.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Yeah because you're saying when a man feels unsafe that's when he wants control of women disconnected from children.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

He will control anything that has creative that has creative power he will control anything with the creative force of the universe within them he will he will want to dominate and he will believe that he does he he has a right to dominion over the natural world rather than see himself as a part of it. So he'll separate himself from it because he doesn't feel connected to it and then he will do his best to control it and in his controlling of it he will destroy. And that like that like look how powerful I am look how much control I have over you know my world my wife the women all of it see me dad see me yeah see me dad look what I've done it's it's and this is why men's work is so important like because what happens is that you come in and we will see you but we're gonna see all of you we're gonna see the part of you beneath the trophies beneath all the medals and say hey man well who's this guy yeah what's he need one of the most beautiful things um recently on our facilitator training and and and it was it was a work of art like the thing that happens in men's work is like beauty just erupts from from the beings of men and it happens it makes me emotional because like we were we were working with a uh one of the brothers who was so terrified in his own home that he had to always be in control and always look after everyone else this little boy's nervous system was the was how that family regulated and he was sitting there looking across from a photo of himself and it was so beautiful because he was seeing the part of him that never got to be seen and also all of the men around are getting to see him in that he's actually being held and we were then able to bring another brother in as his father and all he wanted was a hug. He didn't want a bigger house he didn't want a nicer car he didn't want to go on holidays to Bali all he wanted was a hug all he wanted to know was that hey I'm here I got you what do you want a cup of tea some milk what are you like we're not our needs as men are so simple yet we have created such a complex dynamic framework for living that we like it almost seems too simple. Hey I just need a hug hey I just want to spend some time with you and underneath like what did you say about that kid that we that I met the other day at the Sun Devil that lady said like I'm like I try really hard when I see little boys I'm like tell me everything I'm like even at um Mother's Day when um your cousin's son's and we said and I was like oh show me show like and I and I was like oh I can see he likes Pokemon so I'm going to be interested in Pokemon I already am but I'm gonna be interested in Pokemon and then they're kicking the okay let me be interested in the football let me be interested in the material that they're working with so they know that it's safe for them to be who they are around me. Yeah uh and that to me is like such a gift not to be like hey don't do that come and do what I do you're not a you're not a man yet you don't need to concern yourself with the ways of man just yet young boy yeah there'll be time for that and we will make time for that and I will show you what that is but if I try to grow you up too soon if I rip you up out of the soil and your roots haven't grown strong enough yet to actually resist me and push back and hold yourself in your centre if I rip you up and try to take you where I'm going I'm not actually honoring where you're at your little nervous system and there's so many men that emotionally their nervous systems can't handle this and they're regulating with dishonorable things with terrible things just to keep themselves afloat and it's sad man.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

And underneath just like coming back to the like the cars and the women and like all the manosphere stuff it's like I don't think there's inherently anything wrong with wanting a nice car or wanting lots of money or like any of that. It's always like why? Why what is the driver? And you know I I I guarantee fucking tee you every man on that it's not just oh I'm co-creating with life and this is fun and let me see what's possible right that can be a very healthy way to create in these bodies but it was very fucking obvious in that documentary that again this was the little boy you know the the the I'm I'm I'm bidding for love. I need love I need to be fed with love. So this is the way this is the only way I I haven't learnt to get love just by being myself. Like I'm I've tried to be my authentic self and love isn't given to me. So the only way to get love is to you know grab all these shiny things. Perform. Perform perform perform and I think yeah just coming back like to this cultural piece or just how these individual men how we how we shift it is and you know and I think this is a question every fucking human needs to ask themselves like why why do I want this? What is driving me? Like that's the most powerful you know powerful question we can ask ourselves because when we are being driven by something like oh my I'm aching for my daddy's love right or I don't feel good enough right or you know fill in the blank we're net like nothing nothing is going to quench that thirst no amount of money no amount of cars no body count no fucking like nothing is going to quench that thirst right because it's it's not something that can ever be filled outside of us. That's where the work comes in and then just yeah I'm just thinking of the fathers that are like this is now that we're parents as well it's like if we're if if this conversation is about boys becoming men and you know these these young men or young boys being um exposed to these kind of manosphere influences and and conversations right with like the healing of this how our culture you know shifts away from this does fucking start in the home it starts with you know the the the father it starts with the boy in the home it starts with you know is is he being loved for who he is is he being given attention is there a depth of presence in that home yeah yeah are we attuning ourselves to his needs yeah and this we can extend this conversation to to women and girls as well but this this conversation especially right now with you know that just the influence of the manosphere is definitely around yeah you know boys totally and and like I'm even just like like these men are doing dishonourable things to earn money and then spruking values that they are not embodying they are disembodied.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

These men are not in their bodies because if they were they would be curled up in a ball screaming if they were feeling what they actually was in their body they would they would they would be curled up in a ball screaming for for weeks.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

If they stepped into a space with deep men that are not governed by money or women that or material possessions like you step into a deep place these men will find out what masculinity truly is that and like you don't have power you know there's nothing just because you got a cool car and X amount of dollars in your bank that that doesn't mean you are gonna die just like the rest of us brother your name will be forgotten.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Yeah you you there is one common factor that that that governs all of us is that one day we will die. And your grandiosity is not your greatness your greatness is the subtle micro things that you do like you like that like when we met that little kid at the cafe and you said and his mum said yeah he still talks I'm like oh that like that's one of the most proudest like that's one of my most proud moments like that wasn't me at the front of like 200 men that wasn't me changing a man that was me just like being present with a little when no one was watching and I was like I didn't do it for for any other reason and I was like this is this is my duty as a man is to move through the community and make sure that the young boys feel what it's like to be in the presence of safety to feel what it's like to be in the presence of depth to actually not be on my fucking phone to not be fucking laughing or or talking ill of women to not be focusing on all of the things that I haven't got yet it's like can I be with you here man good to see you. What's you know remind me of your name tell me again let me like be a be in the community be a villager yeah serve at the altar of your home man like cook dinner sit down set the table talk to the people around you connect and if you can't do the work on yourself and I'm not talking about do the work to earn more money and gain more success like do the work to know who you truly are so you don't have to run around the the planet raping and pillaging and gathering things to prove that you're good enough. Because it's it's it's a tragedy it's a it's not a waste of a life it's it's it's a waste of time it's all it's all it's all unfolding as it should I'm sure even though I find that very hard to believe sometimes but uh yeah like this whole Menosphere stuff this whole uh men not knowing how to really respect revere and relate um it's it's I was angry but now I'm just sad and now that I'm sad I'm I'm I'm like really being asked to dig deep into my own like soul into my own like deep waters and be like how what what is actually what is my what is my work do I just need do I need to sell out the next thing or do I just need to serve in every moment? And that's brought me I'm like I'm I'm tapped into a a re a reservoir that is I I'm certain will not run out now.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

I'm not motivated I am like I am resourced on a spiritual level that's so fucking good I am like connected to some spiritual wickedness within me that is like it is undeniable like I'm I like and this is you know from our podcast that we did with press I'm like show me show me life show me how to give show me how to receive show me how to be in relationship with what is here let me serve and I believe that most men that are sucked into this red pill menosphere nonsense is like life give me what I want that give me as much control make me you know and and the more things I have the more powerful I am yeah yeah it's it's it's a consume consume consume consume and as we've been having this conversation I also just think of like porn and I'm like and just the like it makes me emotional just like how devastating it is for how available porn is and for I think literally the average age of a boy seeing porn is like 10 or 11 or something and like how like often what fucking hope do they have if if if a boy is not having a very rooted protected safe emotionally you know available and fertile home life you know something like witnessing porn having that available to him at that age you know is just so right like how how that's I I literally have no words to describe the pain I feel around that.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

How do we change the culture? We protect the young boy's innocence. Yes that we protect their innocence like I'm just thinking of Of I'm like dude you are like you are like you have no idea the lengths that I'm gonna go to to ensure your your safe passage into manhood.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

And that and I fucking love that and that then protects our women and children like that right and that to yeah I'm gonna protect your innocence as a boy I'm gonna prepare you for manhood.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Yeah and those are two very different things and I need to be present to be able to do both yes I can provide for you but I've only got two hands you've only got two we only need four apples we don't need four hundred to be to be content to be happy and I'm not saying we're not gonna be rich as fuck and have all the beautiful art the wonderful yes it's all coming it's all here it's all arriving but I am not for one second going to stop giving you my undivided attention and presence to go out and get more of something that we do not need right now I am not gonna you will not lose me in the pursuit of giving you all of the things that I think you need when really you need me. My success and our abundance will not come at the cost of my presence it will be the reason that I am successful and abundant.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

And where and and we'll close up in a moment but um where is there for for the men that are just disembodied you know and and it's very unsafe for them to be with their emotions right where is it more comfortable to go out and hunt right hunt the the women hunt you know the the more money the more money where is that just so fucking comfortable and familiar where the home life the being with the children the being with the wife's emotions the like being so present that that that is an uncomfortable arena to really be deeply present in because it it is you know reflecting back a man's inability to be in his own body right even we're in the early stages of parenting like eight 19 months in but oh my gosh I I cannot I cannot imagine what you would feel you know or how challenging parenting would be if you weren't connected to your own emotions.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Or maybe not maybe you just then shut down your child but if you can't feel your emotions your child will learn to not feel theirs. Yes exactly so your job is to feel yeah and they will copy you. Uh-huh it's very clear that they copy everything we do. Yeah that's that's very apparent. So the fact that you think oh no I'll just go out and make all the money or do all of this and then they'll have the No they want they're gonna they they are looking to you they are emulating you it's there like there is no if you are not choosing to connect deeply with the ones closest to you then you have work to do. If you're not choosing to relate with them and can and and get curious about the deeper places that you can connect with them then you are you are avoiding something. So the work is to feel what hasn't been felt and be able to open yourself up to the deeper love that is already here. And then share that with the ones you love like have dinner like make the dinner table the sacred altar where you go and pray every fucking day to the culture of your home and then let that culture spill out into the neighbors yards, out into the community. And smile when you go for a walk go for a bike ride there's so many things that are here that will give you the sense of freedom that you think exists on the other side of a dollar sign that exists on the other side of a big deal and yeah that doesn't mean that you can't go out and crush it please do but not at the expense of the quality of presence that you bring to your home that's your gift.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Love it we got work to do my loves thanks for being here we'll see you next week. Big love bye thank you for joining us for this episode my loves and if you would love to support this podcast and we would love it if you did the best way to do that is to subscribe wherever you are listening to this episode right now. And also share share this episode share this episode with your lover your husband your wife anyone who feels into listening to very real spicy episodes on relationship to sex. And then if you have any questions come over and join us on Instagram and atm.co on Instagram and my husband is at shot and over on Instagram as well as any questions episode and we will see you very soon right here