Midlife Mastery - with Daniel Wagner
Midlife - the main words associated are 'crisis' and 'spread'. But what if we challenge the societal narrative and make midlife the opportunity of our lifetime? What if it was our invitation to become more intentional, live more purposeful, and use our accumulated wisdom to contribute to the world around us? In Midlife Mastery we'll explore ways to do that. So that the best is yet to come.
Midlife Mastery - with Daniel Wagner
Mark Carolan on Navigating the Depths of Midlife: Authenticity, Intentional Living, and the Power of the Word
Embark on a journey to the heart of what it means to live authentically with transformation coach Mark Carolan and me, Daniel Wagner, as we peel back the layers of desire to uncover our true needs. Mark's wisdom shines as we navigate the complex terrains of personal growth, embracing the transformative powers that come with aligning our lives with our deepest values. From my own leap of faith, leaving the corporate world for the wisdom of Buddhism and shamanism, to the art of mastering attention in our fast-paced existence, we share stories and insights that promise to illuminate the path to intentional living.
The art of decision-making and the courage to redefine midlife take center stage, as we converse on the importance of "no zero days" - a commitment to make every day count toward our personal aspirations, be it through meditation, time with loved ones, or merely reading a good book. We underscore the delicate balance between self-discipline and self-compassion, offering solace for those times when our best-laid plans are overthrown by life's unpredictable tides. The nuanced power of language emerges as a key theme, shaping not just our self-perception but our entire worldview. Words wield power; we explore how thoughtful communication and storytelling can foster healing and growth, especially in the realm of men's mental health.
As we close this chapter of Midlife Mastery, we turn to the theme of self-sovereignty and the importance of personal responsibility in crafting a life of meaning. We ponder the potential for a collective consciousness tipping point, contemplating the role of ancient wisdom and the current cultural shift toward alternative sources of fulfillment. But it is in the recognition of the world's inherent goodness, the potency of presence, and the grace of gratitude that we find the true essence of a purpose-driven existence. Join us in celebrating the everyday moments of beauty and the profound impact of mindfulness on our journey through the midlife landscape. Mark leaves us not only with a wealth of insights but with a renewed vigor to uncover the goodness that surrounds us at every turn.
Hey, daniel Wagner here for Midlife Mastery, and I'm so chuffed and I'm so bubbling right now because I've already had my guest, mark Carolan, with me. For the last half hour. We've been like let's just have a little chat before we get started, and one of us said, mark, we've got a press record now because we're touching on such cool stuff that I really would love to share. So, without any further ado, mark, welcome to this little chat. We're having this interview. Brilliant, daniel, I'm delighted to be here today. Great, so you said you had some internet challenges in Ireland. You're currently streaming off your mobile phone on mobile data.
Mark Carolan:Unfortunately. So yeah, my internet decided not to work properly for me at the moment. Maybe it's tired. It needs a Christmas break as well.
Daniel Wagner:Maybe. Yeah, it's worked hard all year round. So, the most important things we can hear you, I can hear you well, and this will be a podcast on my YouTube channel and also on my Midlife Mastery podcast. I just want to dive straight in, mark. We've just been speaking about all kinds of things from a Irish philosopher that you read a 700 page book, who wrote a book about homecoming, and you used the Greek word and it really touched me deeply. We spoke about Michael Singer and Jan Tetherd Sol. We talked about people struggling for meaning and the courage it takes. We talk about a resurfacing of a form of Christianity in our own lives. So, wow, but actually officially, you are working as a coach, life coach, business coach, leadership coach. Who comes to you, mark, and what do they want from you and what do you give them? So why do people come to you and what's the magic? What do you bring to their lives that they want? That's a big question.
Mark Carolan:I like to think I like to talk to myself as a transformation coach, daniel, because I like to help people transform wherever they find themselves, whatever space they find themselves in, so they can transform that into something new, into something that they need, into something that they desire where they want the direction of their life to go. So what I help people with and I finally described it perfectly then, when I was working with you, when she gave me a testimony she said Mark doesn't just help you with what you want, he helps you find what you need. I think for me that's one of the key things in life. But because so many of us are out there looking for what we want all the time, to satisfy these desires all the time, but in this constant and consistent search for what we want, we miss out on what we need. And if we don't meet our need, our wants don't satisfy us at the end. Once we meet our need, our wants are fine, but it's these needs that are key. So, for me, what I help people with is to understand what it is they actually need.
Mark Carolan:And often people come to me with a problem. They'll say oh, mark, I'm not happy with my job, whatever it is, we go fine, let's figure that out. And that's not the problem. That's never the problem. That's only the superficial idea of the problem. That's not what's really going on. So we work and we find what it is that the real truth is, and that's what we want to get to. We want to get to the truth of things, and you mentioned earlier truth with a capital T. What's really behind all of these kind of things?
Mark Carolan:Because only when we find that truth, then we can move forward and then we can work forward. And in all of this, all about this perspective, how they see the world, how they see the world around them, how they've been interacting with the world, how they're language that they use internally and externally is controlling that word.
Daniel Wagner:Okay, that was already so much in here. We could unpack that and spend the next half hour, but for me a couple of things stood out. So what do you believe people actually need? Because you said the ones distract them and they think they want something, but actually there are some needs. What are those human needs that you identified everyone is looking for?
Mark Carolan:Wow, yeah, and I know your platform is midlife mastery and I think for a lot of it, these needs are. For me, gnostics is the word, is that Greek word is coming home to yourself, am I philosophy and coaching? And if you notice, my TEDx talk was actually titled the Magic of being Yourself Because I thought my coaching philosophy of coming home to yourself was a little bit too, maybe much for a TEDx title. But coming home to yourself is what I really think it's all about, because so many of our problems that we have in the world are because we're divorced from who we really are. We're divorced from what's really important to us.
Mark Carolan:One way people talk to me about midlife and midlife crisis. What is a midlife crisis? I would define it in some way as your life is going in this direction, a way it's going and it's been traveling fast and hard in this direction for a long time, and you know it's not right and you know that a crash could be coming, or maybe a crash isn't coming. What you know deep down it's not right, but your values, your mission, your purpose are in this direction and you try and get the values and mission and purpose to meet your life. That's not going to happen and that's where the crash is going to come from. Your life has got to meet your values, your mission and purpose, and that's the coming home to yourself part, when you begin to understand what it is that really matters to you and you get to understand what you value and you begin to live a life in line with that, when things begin to make sense, and then you could find the stuff that you need out of that.
Daniel Wagner:So pretty much this idea that our life that we're living and the values that we actually really hold, but maybe not even aware that we hold our true values, our authentic expression that we haven't been able to express because life just taken us down a road. When that gap becomes too big, that's where the pain happens. Right, this is where the crisis appears. You're like I don't think I can do this any longer. I feel stretched. I feel just not myself. Right, this seems to happen. You spoke about values, but before I go to the values question is how come we find it so hard to be ourselves? At what point do we forget who we are so that we have to come home later in life? It seems to be an arduous journey. Why don't we just stay who we are through the beginning?
Mark Carolan:Wow, okay, have we got a couple of days here? I think where it begins is I think it begins so young it begins. We were talking earlier and I mentioned you mentioned this and I said look, that talk was about an hour and a half and there's so many other ways. I wanted to talk about stuff like that because so many of the concepts, these would be broken down, so try to simplify them is quite difficult. But I think why we begin?
Mark Carolan:We become divorced from who we really are at a very young age, from the moment we start school, when we try to fit into the world and we adopt and start playing roles at a young age, and we spend our entire life trying to fit in and not being ourselves.
Mark Carolan:Because it's easier to fit in, because to not fit in, to be ourselves, means rejection, means being pushed out, means being pushed away from the tribe per se, and if we go back into our ancestral history, the idea of rejection was one of the most difficult things to deal with because it means you're outside the tribe, it meant you didn't live anymore.
Mark Carolan:So the fear and rejection is massive. So we spend our time playing these roles and protecting ourselves because of these roles and as we get older, daniel, these roles become a senior manager, I have a nice car, I am a father, I am whatever else, and we live our life as these roles and we identify in these roles. But the problem with that is, if that role is taken away, where's your identity now? Who are you? What are you now? Because those things can go in an instant, none of them are guaranteed. And if your identity isn't based on who you really are, then there's where your problem is straight away. But because we build up these things to keep us safe that we end up not knowing who we are as we get older and older, and then we've distanced ourselves so far we don't know who that person was.
Daniel Wagner:Got it. I'm nodding, not just in agreement, but because you asked me before our interview I should share some of my Midlife Crisis moments. That's exactly my experience. What was taken away? What I thought was my safety. My definition of who I thought I was in the world changed so rapidly that my identification had no grounding. I was suddenly so who am I if I'm not this Austrian successful internet marketer, blah blah, whatever was attached to that right, these roles, and I really feel this crash landing where I had to start at what is the ground floor, whether we actually start with what is still real. When everything's gone and everything's taken away, what remains? That's a place to start from, and that takes different shapes. I mean, you said earlier you've been searching or you are searching. You feel like you're always looking. What is it you're looking for? Is it to remember who you are? What is it you're looking for or searching?
Mark Carolan:Yeah, that's it. It's hard to define what you're looking for and I think differences in our life. We look for different things. I know in my teens I was looking for fun. In my twenties I was looking for adventure. In my thirties I was looking for fun and adventure. I was looking for solidity. In my forties I'm looking for myself. I'm looking to know what I am or who I am, and I think part of it was always.
Mark Carolan:I was always looking for those answers. I was always curious as to what is the purpose of life? What are we reading here? What's the meaning of all of this? Are we simply organisms that live and die, and that's this. Is there more to all of what's going on?
Mark Carolan:I think for me, the search for the search is a consistent attempt to answer who you are and to see yourself better, To actually find a mirror that shows you a bit more of yourself every time, and I think that's really the search that I'm on, because we spoke a little bit earlier. But that time when you come across something, you come across language talk, you come across a talk, you come across conversation you have with someone, and that conversation moves you, and I always find that that's an interesting word around is that it moves you. You haven't moved. Where have you moved? What part of you has moved? How have you journeyed through a conversation, Through that? So what has moved? I think it's always that you've moved a bit deeper, a bit more into your own understanding of self and understanding of the world as it lives around you.
Daniel Wagner:Only get it and I recognize what you speak to. It's like almost you're dropping down into a deeper understanding of yourself. Something widens and deepens and it feels more clicking into place, but again and again until you arrive at a level where you're like I think I'm okay. Now I think I'm getting to a place where okayness is here. With the book of Michael Singer's book and I had some young hazards sold I had a lot of moments in reading that or listening to that, but I'm like I remember this and there's no way I could have remembered it. So it feels like he taps into a knowledge that is just in the collective realm and somehow it means something to me. Already you talk about an experience which I found fascinating when you were very young been dragged to church and really listening hard to the sermon, trying to make sense of the sermon. Do you want to recall some of that, what you shared earlier? I found it.
Mark Carolan:Yeah, I suppose that's kind of where, for me, the idea of searching and journey started. Like, my background before admission to coaching was 20 something years in the Corporate World Daniel. But during all that period of time I wasn't not doing courses on Buddhism, courses on meditation, I was not doing shamanic weekends, I was not doing all this other types of searching, because I always knew I needed to find something more, I needed to find other answers and need to find other answers. When we sat and somebody only asked me that earlier on they said to me that you said that after one week in the whole world, you knew it wasn't for you. Yeah, you spent 20 years. Did you always know that? And that's what years is like? I didn't. It's like it was always there, that knowledge that aware of something or I didn't know what to do about it, I didn't know how to change it, I didn't have the courage, the conviction, so used to the money and all the rest of it. But I think that consistent searching and I don't think I'd ever stop searching. I read a ton of books and a ton more than I thought and have to read and they're sitting there and I'll find it at the right time.
Mark Carolan:But if I go the whole way back to the start, like come from Ireland and the countryside and back in the years it was a cat in a country and I remember being at Mass with my family and we'd all be in the car, granny, and all like seven or eight of us, and seven of us in the one car all squeezed it, people lying across the back window because of the easy's and the laws that can count to the same extent. And we'd go to Mass and, like every single person in the locality would, and the priest would give his sermon and ask it a gospel and I would listen to every word he said. I would listen to it gently, to what he was saying, trying to understand it for myself. He was 80 years old, maybe nine years old, maybe 10. And we'd come back in the car, we'd go on the way back home and I would be talking with the sermon and I'd be dissecting it and pulling it apart until I didn't agree with this. What did he really mean by this? How does this fit into the world that we understand? And after a while my father would just say you just shut up, mark, and I just don't want to be happy to be on your factual with father.
Mark Carolan:I think he was an incredible man, an incredibly deep and spiritual man, himself in his own space and his own way. But it dawned me that I was the only person Listen. No one else was listening to the sermon. Everyone else was in their own world and maybe in their own space, and they can have a lovely personal space in a church as you're sitting there. But no one else was paying any attention. So it was like no one else paid any attention. Why am I paying attention? Why is anyone paying attention? Why is this guy talking to us Like where are the answers here if he doesn't have any that no one's willing to listen to? I think for me it was formative in terms of you have to understand that this is their opinion. That's him up there trying to and it doesn't reflect enough. It doesn't work for you and that's not for you and you need to find it. You find it in searching until you find the stuff that makes sense to you and, like you said, the stuff that feels like you already know it.
Daniel Wagner:And there's two parts in here, mark, and thanks for relaying the story. I just loved it. I loved it a second time as well. But when you speak about this real desire to understand what's behind it, how it works, why are we here this very deep, I remember asking my mom these really annoying questions like why are we here? What's the purpose of this? And she's like, look, there is no answer to this, stop asking. But I didn't stop asking and I still don't stop asking. I do believe it can be gleaned, it can be understood, it can be felt why and what. I really don't believe we're just here for a while and then we're done. I really believe there's purpose and maybe there's this. I don't know, I cannot prove it, but I definitely feel it's a better life with purpose. I definitely know that a man needs a mission. He needs to know why he's here for him, what he's doing, what he's contributing.
Daniel Wagner:But there's a word that you mentioned, mark, which is something inside of me what is your intention? Why does anybody pay attention? What's your take on the power of attention and how do you feel we can use it better? Because everybody seems to want our attention. Life, the world, seems to permanently try to pull me out of me into stuff. I'm not just saying marketing advertising, but I live in the countryside. When I go to a city I'm like, oh my Lord, what's going on? Everything seems to be pulling away my attention. How did you learn to? I say master in a loose way, but master your attention so that you use it for your own betterment and not just get pulled from pillar to post.
Mark Carolan:I haven't. I still get pulled from pillar to post, but when the stuff I know I need, the stuff I need to prioritize, I learn to prioritize the stuff that matters. I learn to be clear about what actually matters, to become aware of how I'm using my time. You're so right. There's such a point of my attention in the modern world and I would put an awful lot of that down to this technology that we have now that there's always something else interesting. There's always something else better, something else shinier, something new, and we're constantly seeking that because as people, we also we love these dopamine hits. We love to change how we feel all the time by finding the new, finding the exciting, finding the different, and there's that pull of attention. Like for me, I leave my phone upstairs for a while. That's such a relief. I never want to guess. Or at least a nice analog watch. I don't want a digital, I don't want a modern watch that tells you what's going on in your world and how your heart is beating, and all that kind of stuff.
Daniel Wagner:Same.
Mark Carolan:Because I don't want to know. Yeah, I don't want to know. Every notification is untrue because that's my attention being dragged away all the time and when our attention is always gone, that means we can't focus on any particular thing. We can't focus on the thing that matters to us, so it's an awareness piece. Attention comes to awareness. If we are not aware of where we're spending our attention, then there's nothing we can do about it. Once we become aware and conscious of how we start to use our time and how we start to use our attention and we can do that to do different tools, different exercises that we can work on ourselves and understand ourselves then suddenly we have our time back and to expand on a little bit at the time, thing Daniel and in our modern world, time is nearly a bully.
Mark Carolan:I was given a day personal development in a session last week and I was asking the guys who were in the room saying like and they were on the middle edge, majority of them were in their 40s and 50s and I said to them do you remember when this technology first came in 15 years ago? 20 years ago, particularly from a work perspective, and we were celebrating the fact that our work life was going to get easier. We're going to have so much more free time because if this technology is going to do things for us so much easier, why have we got less time today than we ever had? We've less because there's so many other things to drive our attention, to demand our attention. And if I even bring that to the simple thing like, I will listen to loads of podcasts.
Mark Carolan:I love listening to podcasts. I have real old books through it. I'd be a big fan of sport. I want to spend time with my family. I love doing exercise. I love getting out. I still have to work. I get out for a walk as much as I can. I live five minutes from the beach, the mountains up there that I can see every so often that I want to get to, I can't do it all, and there's that want in me to do everything and it goes back to the needs. Well, what does it need to do here? It needs to take it easy. I need to do the stuff that's important to me. I need to do the stuff that matters to me, because I can't do all that I want to do, because I can't give my attention to every single piece that's happening.
Daniel Wagner:So what's for you, your own yardstick? How do you create this decision, this measure? Do you check with your body? You just take a few deep breaths, or you sense into it and say you know what? Now, I need to do this because I feel all of us struggle with choice. Which choice do you make Now, my ego wanting is this, my body lusting, or is it actually my soul yearning right? I'm using three simple examples to do some layers of existence. How do you, personally, make those decisions? What's important? What do you need?
Mark Carolan:I would do struggle with choice and I think part of the struggle with choice is because we have so many options. We don't want to lose out on anyone and therefore we struggle to make a decision on anything. But I love the lack and root of the word decided. The lack and root means to cut away, so once we make a decision, suddenly we cut away the things that were there and we're free to put our attention and focus down that way.
Daniel Wagner:For me.
Mark Carolan:It's about being clear on what's important. I was speaking today. I posted on LinkedIn about no zero days and I met no zero days in a number of different ways. No zero days are the factor If you're exercising right, okay. So no zero days If you want to make sure it's excellent in your life.
Mark Carolan:I go to the gym most days, or I'll get out of my bike or I'll get out for a walk. If I don't have time, if I can't do those things, what can I do instead? Can I do a hundred press-ups, sit in a hall? Can I do something that says no zero days? But let's bring that further, because there's no zero days for me. I could drink in a cup of tea. There's no zero days. I'll drink in a cup of tea. There's no zero days that I don't do my Qigong practice, which we might have in meditation. There is no days where I do not read a few pages of the book. If you don't have time to read 20 pages, can I read two pages? Can I pick up a book of poetry that I've sent out and read a call? So no zero days.
Mark Carolan:So you focus on the things that matter to me and making sure they happen in my life and I think, as well as that is, it's also key to know what you want for your future, because everything we do today dictates who we're going to become tomorrow.
Mark Carolan:So if you say what's priority for you, who do you want to be, if, whatever person you want to be, what has to happen for that person to be who you want to be, then that's your priority is to make sure those things happen. And if those things are, you want to be a good body, you want to have relationships with your kids, or you want to make sure that you earn whatever it is in terms of money. We want to make sure that you're fit and strong and healthy as you're into middle age and as you're going into your senior age, which a lot of us aren't conscious enough of, because if you let the body go too far at this point, you've got a real big problem later on. And that's the kind of things and if that's what I want to have, that's what I need to have, what do we need to do today in order to get that want?
Daniel Wagner:Like I said, like start, this is what it wants. I love that. It's a very simple and practical example in everything you can do. When I'm listening to us right now, I'm like how can somebody listening to this derive value? Is it just going to come in? I'm thinking of the sermon of the priest. Right, they're going to try to understand what we say or just to wash it over. Is there just an energy with it? But if there's practical stuff, that would be clearly one. If you say, if you have an idea of who you want to be in the future and that define it, then you can clearly say what needs to happen between now and that assumed future to make it happen more likely. Right, no guarantees, no 100%, but there's definitely we can. How do you say you can definitely move the odds in your favor? I really feel that's the key. I like it, I like that and in those zero days, that's a form of self-discipline. Right To also not allow yourself to have any form of lame excuse. You say, no, I'll find the one.
Mark Carolan:Yeah, can I expand on that as well? Sorry, because I was talking about it like when shifted into the final point, because I know zero days as well and it is. There is a part of it that I don't have time for lame excuses. If you want to achieve something in this life, if you want something, then you don't have time to not go for it, right. But there are times when life is hard. There are times when you mentally and emotionally, physically, are not up to the challenge you set yourself, and that is okay.
Mark Carolan:And where I think no zero days can be. Really important is no zero days for not having some self-compassion, for making sure that part of your no zero days is the ability to save yourself. You know what? It's okay today. I'm going to do this whenever I can do, because if you have a journey in mind and your intention is to run 100 miles towards that journey today, if you can run 100 miles, if you can take one single step, then you are one step closer to where you're trying to get to, and some days that's okay. So no zero days for self-compassion as well.
Daniel Wagner:Love it Now, self-compassion. That is a new man word, right. Some years ago, if somebody said, oh, we need to have self-compassion, that would not have landed well. So I love the fact that our definition of what it means to be a man, how we in society, start making inroads and what I find really important, right. I'm a great believer that certain definitions need to be redefined or softened first and then find their own new shape, and I think that's one of them. Right, that we say self-care is important or that I have compassion with myself, that I'm kind to myself, right. I feel that it's really important for the new definition of what it means to be and not even forget the man part just a human to be long-term happy and healthy and not being too hard on yourself. I think most of us have an inner critic and inner judge that is harsh, much harder than we are on others. So I think that's I mean something definitely I work on from. So it means, when you spoke to them like, yes, Daniel, that's you Be kind to yourself, have self-compassion.
Mark Carolan:Come into the real definition.
Daniel Wagner:Oh, sorry, go on. It's just this redefinition part I said to you in the beginning. I feel that midlife is one of those terms that is archaic in how we look at it and as we live 20, 30 years longer than we did 100 years ago, I really feel it needs our attention, like mental health needed our attention as a term. Now trauma is suddenly a term that people are. Okay, we can accept that. We all need to be more trauma aware because we can't get through life without being traumatized. And if you define it the correct way dealing with events that we don't know how to handle in the moment and put away into our body for later processing and we never do that's gonna bite you the butt at one point. You got so much accumulated stuff you haven't dealt with. Your life will get narrow and harder, right. So if we can acknowledge that is trauma, we all have it and then, luckily, there are ways to process it In the same way.
Daniel Wagner:I just feel there are new and for me, midlife is my mission. I made that. I want to redefine, rebrand what it means. What do you feel or sense or know? Needs to happen that midlife, and moving into I mean you said to me. You're 46, so you're officially moving into that time where value shifts should occur. What could help men and I'm passionate about all humans, but men, I think, have a harder time admitting and acknowledging that that shit isn't quite how it should be. What do you think would help people through a transition or a phase of reevaluation on all levels?
Mark Carolan:It's a fantastic question, daniel, and I think what's interesting being exposed to the world and being exposed over the last few years, and you see things in different spaces and I think what's important is what is a space for men, let's say, what is a space where it's safe to be a man and safe to be a man in a modern world, because we fear that judgment so much. We fear that being ostracized, we fear being a slave of the tribe, because we find it so difficult to imagine ourselves. Hence we have this ego in front of us and this ego is there to protect us and defend us and try to keep us safe all the time, and that ego is protecting us from the shame we feel or we think about if we think about vulnerability, and the shame is simply a cycle that we go through all the time and hence we put on our suits of armor to protect ourselves and we wear these suits of armor all the time. We need to find a space where it's okay to take off that suit of armor and okay to speak and okay to talk and find an ear that will listen and not judge us, because it's in that judgment. Is that what we fear all the time.
Mark Carolan:I asked some of these questions the other day and this was something that they couldn't answer from me and I was very disappointed to them. They were speaking on an event I was asked and they were speaking on mental health, that suicide challenges they went through, and I asked them how would you help someone who was having real difficulty from a mental health perspective maybe suicide, or I couldn't speak about it. How would you encourage them to speak? And they couldn't answer the question from me. And I think the fact that they couldn't answer the question from me tells us how difficult that space is for a man to find his way out of that space, and that's an extreme version of it. But the men of times, I'm cultured with a man and he would say something to me and he'd say to me my God, I've never spoken that before, I've never said that out loud, I've never said that to my partner, and they're deep, hurtful things, but only because they've been held onto for so long.
Mark Carolan:And it was the classic like if I hold this gas up for a while, it's fine. If I hold this gas up for 10 years, my arm is going to get sore Because we hold onto it for so long. And then the net govitt is really difficult, but the net govitt is numerating. So I think for me it's to have the space to come to where it's safe to speak. And then, when you are listened to and listened to without judgment, it is incredible and I find one of the things I find was interesting when you start coaching with someone who's very wary of giving into this kind of spaces and it takes a while to work on it and they begin to realize that, no matter what they say to you, you're not judging them and you're not thinking oh, you're somehow less.
Mark Carolan:Because you said that to me and I always couch this as a start with anyone I said I don't care what you tell me, I do not care. I mean that as splitantly as possible I don't care what you say, I only care what that means for you, has that impacts you, has that affects you, and how we need to change that so you can live a better version of your life.
Daniel Wagner:Beautiful. That's really, really king. I love that. I really love that. I don't care what you say, but I care what it means to you and how we can change what it means to you so you can transform. I really know that this bringing it to a safe space where you listen to without judgment. Luckily, I've had now almost seven years of my life where I had experiences of that.
Daniel Wagner:I was invited into many circles and this kind of non-judgmental listening. But you and I both know that something magical happens when it leaves the inner space and is spoken. If it's spoken and not judged, something that you felt was so shameful or so horrible or so bad, and you speak it and the reaction, the public humiliation you were expecting does not happen. People are just like, oh great, me too, potentially even me too what that can do for someone. It's magic. That is really magical because it can lift the burden that you did not believe could be lived. It's like light shining on a shadow. The shadow disappears effortlessly. There's nothing needs to happen. Light goes in, shadow gone. Amazing Power of words. We spoke about words. We spoke about Avra Kadavra, which is the Hebrew form I create as I speak. Tell me more about your relationship to language and words and how obviously in coaching it has a big relevance. Just share some of your passions around. Conscious yes.
Mark Carolan:Okay, if I start with the words piece, I am an absolutely avid reader. I probably have four books in the go at a time. I'm always reading and reading different things. I mean, I'd be reading a book of poetry. I'd be reading a book of fiction. I'd be reading a non-section. I'd be reading some philosophy. I'd be reading a graphic novel. I'd be reading all these different things because I love the words.
Mark Carolan:If someone has a word in place in the book, it actually disturbs you. That word is wrong, it doesn't fit the sentence, it doesn't fit what you're trying to do here. It actually puts me off. I think. For me it just goes to show you where the words are working, where they're not working right. In the coaching space I am continually and constantly helping people. I'm not going to say correcting, because that's not a fair way to post.
Mark Carolan:I think people see and realize the language that they're using and the impact that's having on how they see the words. After a while I work with me, my clients call to me and they say things I say oh, joe, I just need to, and then they go. Actually, no, I tell you what I'm going to do because this language, this wishy-washy language, I showed and I might and I just need to it's got no value. There's no strength behind it, there's no meaning or feeling behind it. All it is is a potential idea of what do we really want. We want to get things into concrete and get things to be what they really are, because our language has such extraordinary power and if we take it to understanding ourselves culturally and understand ourselves sociologically, particularly in the Irish culture and I come from it's an oral culture. It's been an oral culture for thousands and thousands of years.
Mark Carolan:And how we learned and rose by stories. So we learned by passing stories along to each other. This is how we learned about the world around us. This is how we learned to use the things that were in the world around us, and we have adapted to that as we are today, because we grew up on stories and we tell a story for ourselves. So a greeting in Ireland is what's the story? That's what we say to someone as a greeting, and they would they're oh, the story. And then they'll tell you oh, I was there this today and this happened to me. But we spend our time telling stories and we tell a story and we spin a story in our life and the more we tell that story, then we are touched, that story and we come. And that's the power of our words, because our words are telling the life that we live. And if you want to live a different life, then you need to tell a better story than the story you are already telling. Beautiful, and that within the power of our language.
Daniel Wagner:Beautiful man. That was so much in this. I like how you say when you and I have a similar experience. If I read something and I am sometimes speaking slowly because I'm looking for the most specific word I know of and I'm sure there's an even better one that actually says what I'm feeling that I can really translate it because I want to be understood, I want this to be landing and I want this to move the other person. So, casual language or sound bites, repetitive patterns, filler words, fluff language, as you say. Yeah, I work on that constantly. I want to be more aware of what I say and how I say it.
Daniel Wagner:In German, there's a word, and MacGuffin and I use it a lot and we're like why are we doing it? It's like, even though it's like, right, you're filling in a word called actually eigentlich, said we're actually quite happy. And then we said what if we just said we are happy and that? And that's so scary because like, oh, that's very definitive, right, yeah? And then we said I'm standing ambiguity, and that means you're standing on something, which means you might be attacked, which means and there goes the idea that we spin, and I'm like wow, everywhere I hear it. So, speaking clearly, speaking with intention and knowing the power of words. Huge, okay, can I?
Mark Carolan:search up there as well. Daniel, when you talked about saying we're actually quite happy and switching to we're happy, one thing we don't realize with our words and what they do to us is how they make us feel. And to say like I'm all actually quite happy, I don't know, that kind of makes me feel maybe I'm like yeah, I don't know. Whereas if I say I'm happy, that makes me feel much more confident, secure in myself and how I am. And it just goes to show you how changing one word in a sentence it changes how you feel about where you are at the time. Like if I bring it to the story piece and this is maybe to reflect it to your listeners and we don't realize that we're telling the story of our life. We don't realize this. But people will say, oh, yeah, I have a tough day today and somebody did a day and they said to me oh, it's going to be a tough day today, you're better.
Daniel Wagner:Will.
Mark Carolan:You're just in sure, and I don't doubt that they're right.
Mark Carolan:They knew all the stuff that they had on the music. They knew it was going to be difficult to get through all the work that they had to get through that day, but before they even set out on that journey to it, they were already hating the day as a tough day and telling themselves how tough it was going to be and how difficult it was going to be, how tired they were going to be at the end of the day, because this is the story they were spinning for themselves, rather than it's going to be a challenging day. But I have the tools to cope and say that I'm going to plan my day in a way that I can get by the best of what has to happen today, which is the same thing but feels completely different, and that's the power of the language and the power of the story that we tell Is this part of what you do in your coaching, you help people become aware of these unconscious language patterns, how they put themselves into a corner or limit their life or their ability.
Mark Carolan:Yeah, yeah, it's a critical part, even when I'm giving talks and wellbeing or when I'm doing this kind of work on the coaching space, I'll tell everyone beforehand this you'll notice that we will be working in language and working on mites at the whole time. You might not even be conscious of it, but as we come to the end and we're wrapping up, you'll realize that all the time we've been interspersing it with these points around language and points around how we speak, you begin to see oh right, that's what I'm doing, that's where I am, that's what's going on for myself, because it's all about that awareness. If you're not aware of something, you can't change it.
Mark Carolan:And if you're not aware of something, then I think one of the critical things is that you're not in charge of your life and life is happening to you instead, and when life's happening to you, you know power over that story. So we need to take back our power over how our life is happening and I understand, and I love it your own personal background, which, your ancestral history. There's times where we have no control whatsoever over the circumstances we find ourselves in. And if Victor Franklin says it personally, if you cannot change the situation, you are still challenged to change yourself. And that's the power we maintain in every situation the power to change how we feel and our attitude towards the situation powerful, and does that mean at this moment, we're giving up the victim mentality and taking responsibility, full responsibility?
Daniel Wagner:Isn't that a scary thought?
Mark Carolan:It's a scary thought, but do you know what's an even scarier thought? And it's only scary because you can see for what it is when you're talking about it. Somebody said to me a while ago. They said to me okay, did you look outside and it was raining? It always rains on me. I thought maybe it was raining on everyone else who's outside, but that's such a perfect examination of the victim mentality. But it's not taking responsibility. It's taking responsibility with yourself. It's not rain, it's inappropriate weather. You can't change that. You can't do anything about that. Your story earlier of your midlife crisis and losing all that you had and all that you identified with to now be where you were it's acceptance of it's raining. I just need to deal with the rain instead of oh no, why is it raining on me? It's just a flip and that's. It's two sides of the same coin. Which side do you want to be on?
Daniel Wagner:Yeah, I mean. That moves me into one of my big topics of my life self-sovereignty. Are we moving? Is our society moving more towards self-sovereign beings who become more aware, self-aware, making responsible decisions, sensing deeply, recognizing, remembering who they are? I seem to meet more people who are on that path. If you call it a path, what's your sense? I mean, I guess you're spending time in that space all the time as a coach. Do you see that we're moving towards that or we're moving away from it?
Mark Carolan:That's a very interesting question, something I've been thinking about too. Daniel, tomorrow, on Thursday morning, okay, I'm going to go to New Grinch. New Grinch is an ancient site here in Ireland. It's 5,000 years old it's older than the pyramids and it is built in such a way that it has a burial chamber inside it and on the 21st of December, on the Swincer Salons, as the light, as the sun, comes up over the horizon, the light hits the top of the burial chamber and lights the whole chamber up, so it marks the Salons. This is 5,000 years old and there's a lovely kind of celebration.
Mark Carolan:All sorts of people and all sorts of people have different beliefs and different stuff go up there and there's a lovely atmosphere in the place. And one thing I was thinking about when I was up there last year was we have this idea that we dismiss the people in the past because our progress today is so much more than them. Yes, we have technology I'm sitting in a house with light and heat, which is thank God. I live in this generation to have that, and that's a fantastic thing to have but this idea that they weren't asking these questions, this idea that they weren't challenging what was out there, this idea that they weren't also pushing boundaries.
Mark Carolan:I think, because our world is more globalized, we can find more people in our tribes who can speak like this, who can talk to us, and I think maybe there was a possibility that people were less exposed to other ideas, so, unless they did a lot of work on searching on their own, they didn't find them.
Mark Carolan:But I don't think there's any difference in the generations that can be forced in terms of always seeking, because we know what's there is not right. We know what's there is more, and I think it's a dangerous thing to think we are any further ahead than the generations who came before us. I do think, though, that we're more distracted by our world, and I think it's easier to re-band against a world that's trying to force us into certain ways. So I think there's a need, there's a desperate search in our world, because the religions that we lived with and lived by that gave us a lot of our good answers, and I don't want to dismiss any religion, because in every one of them there is a lot of universal truths that, unfortunately, a lot of them are couched around dogma, and couched around rules that are much more built by the institution than built by the God or the Mohammed or the Jesus or whoever came behind them.
Mark Carolan:So I think because of that, because we become more conscious of the institutions, that we realize we can't, that we're struggling to find our answers in those old spaces. So now we need new spaces to find our answers, and that's why it seems in this world now there's more people out there searching for these answers, because we need to find these answers in a new way. I think we're being exposed to the fact that happiness is this idea that we're striving for and we can't strive for happiness. Happiness comes and happens goes. Strive for well-being, strive for a sense of yourself, strive for a sense of what's right, strive for to understand who you are, what your mission is, what your purpose is, and live that way. That's what we need to be striving for. I think there's that breakdown in what we think is right, what we now know we need more out in this world.
Daniel Wagner:Beautiful, very interesting, very good point. It's something I think about a lot. Are we moving towards a tipping point of consciousness where people become aware of the truth? But I also read scripture and I read some Bible story. I'm like same same, just without electricity. Nothing changed, right, maybe? Shoes, same, jealousy, same everyone, the discreet, the temperate part Just out of EastEnders, right, just happy.
Mark Carolan:I can see that your life in England did have an impact on you. If you're referencing EastEnders, yeah.
Daniel Wagner:I just thought, yeah, I mean I want to say neighbors, like the Australian series, which I watched as well when I was in England. Yeah, fascinating, hey, really loving Hanging out. I'm looking at the recording time. I said to you we try to keep it below an hour so.
Daniel Wagner:I just wanted to know if there's something from your end that you would love to bring into this broadcast. This is an opportunity, potentially for billions of people to hear you. I'm not that I have this audience or reach, but what if there was a few minutes where you could really say what's important to Mark, what's important in your life, what are you working on? What's the mission right now? What keeps you excited and going forth against all obstacles and odds? What's important that you'd like to share?
Mark Carolan:I feel that there are days in life and times in those days when you just feel like the world is the most exciting, most amazing experience that is possible, when you feel like you're on the edge of anything that can happen and it can mean the strangest ways in going outside and seeing people interact with each other.
Mark Carolan:I love when you're walking somewhere and somebody is walking beside you and somebody has to recognize them and that moment when they're seen. And I think that's a beautiful thing, because when we were speaking earlier about when you find a space that you can speak in and not be judged, what's happening to you as you're being seen. And I think we all need to be seen and seen for who we are and seen in our own way. And there are times when we don't want to be seen. There's times when we want to climb back into our shell and hide away from the world a little bit, because the world can knock us down and the world can beat us up and we can attach ourselves to it in the wrong way and we can find it difficult. But there's always and also so much good in the world and our focus, particularly if we turn on the news or whatever, and we see the horrors that are happening in so many spaces, but we don't see the good things that are happening in so many spaces. So we don't realize how many good things and how many people are out there and they're doing the most basic things that are important they're looking after their kids, they're trying to teach their kids what's right in the world. They're trying to do the right thing with their networks. They're trying to create community. They're trying to create a sense of themselves in the world and be happy with what they're putting out into the world and happy with how they're adding to the world. The world is a far better place than we realize and I think for me, my mission is to help people see that and see that in themselves and help people come more in tune with that.
Mark Carolan:And for myself, I want to make sure that me, as I get to be into older age if I get to be into older age my father passed away at 57 years old of cancer and that's something that's guided a lot of my decisions over the last few years, because time is fast and it keeps on going and it keeps on moving and if we don't stop it's going to be gone and we're going to have missed us. So for me, it's about where are you right now? What's going on? You don't want to miss this life because this life has magic in it. It is amazing In the littlest things. It is amazing. You can go outside and sun guard 10 minutes without losing it and you will see something different and something interesting and something amazing of the life that goes on around us and that's the glory of where we are in the world and if we tune into it, being in the moment and living our life like that, anything is possible in this life.
Daniel Wagner:Beautiful. I feel that there's anything I would add right now, apart from saying thank you for being here, thank you for sharing your wisdom, your lived experience, with us, with me, because right now it's just me alone in my room looking into a camera and supposedly there's a person somewhere in the world called Island, called Mark oh no, that's even true, but I definitely am. I'm feeling invigorated by your sharing, by your energy, by your positive impact that you're already having on people's lives. So thank you, mark, for being here. On Midlife Mastery, it's been a real blast. I love hanging out with you Love you, Zanya.
Mark Carolan:It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.