Midlife Mastery - with Daniel Wagner
Midlife - the main words associated are 'crisis' and 'spread'. But what if we challenge the societal narrative and make midlife the opportunity of our lifetime? What if it was our invitation to become more intentional, live more purposeful, and use our accumulated wisdom to contribute to the world around us? In Midlife Mastery we'll explore ways to do that. So that the best is yet to come.
Midlife Mastery - with Daniel Wagner
Embracing the Midlife Voyage: Wisdom from The Midlife Mentors on Andropause, Relationships, and Presence
Find out more about The Midlife Mentors
themidlifementors.com
facebook.com/themidlifementors
twitter.com/midlifementors
instagram.com/midlifementors
tiktok.com/@themidlifementors
Embarking on the transformative journey of midlife can feel like charting unknown territories, yet James and Claire Davis, The Midlife Mentors, join us with a compass of wisdom guiding us through these uncharted waters. Their expertise illuminates the crucial health, fitness, and mindset shifts necessary for navigating life's second adolescence. As we delve deeper, the Davises shed light on the often unspoken trials of andropause, offering powerful strategies for men to embrace the change with positivity. Their approach is both holistic and heartening, ensuring that listeners walk away with a newfound outlook on this pivotal phase of life.
The dance of partnership, especially in the ebb and flow of midlife, is at the heart of our conversation, where we share heartfelt revelations from our relationships. Relationship dynamics, as we discover, are intricate yet rewarding, demanding a deep understanding of oneself and one's partner. We address the delicate balance of personal and professional intertwinement, sharing stories of love, growth, and self-discovery. The Midlife Mentors remind us that the strength of any bond is honed through triumphs and trials, advocating for reflection and accountability as cornerstones for enduring relationships.
As the London winter sun casts a reflective glow, we conclude with a stirring discussion on the power of presence in cultivating a life rich with meaning. The city's charm underscores our gratitude for the connection and insights shared by our guests, Claire and James. Their guidance on embracing change and seizing midlife's opportunities leaves us with a sense of joy and presence. For those yearning to delve further into the topics covered, resources are available to continue the journey, as we bid a warm farewell to The Midlife Mentors and reflect on the invaluable lessons imparted throughout our enriching dialogue.
Ah, recording is on Daniel Wagner for Midlife Mastery another episode and my personal journey in Midlife Mastery led me to two quite amazing human beings that are on the call with me today, james and Claire Davis. And when I googled Midlife Crisis, one of the first things I found in the Google results were midlife mentors. So I was curious who are these people and what are they doing? So, Claire James, welcome to a Midlife Mastery podcast episode.
James Davis:Hello, thanks for having us here. Hello, thank you, it's so so much.
Claire Davis:We're really excited to have this conversation with you.
Daniel Wagner:Thank you. We had maybe half an hour. We've been on this call already 20 minutes before and we started exchanging personal stories, which is always exciting because there's a reason why we do what we do, Unless we've been accidentally pushed into some career which is maybe off. How we start life, you two have chosen the title and the work you're doing consciously. I don't know who wants to go first. This is a special challenge, having two people full of energy who want to share. But how did you come to become the Midlife Mentors? And if you want to flow into, what is it you're helping people with? What is it you're providing?
Claire Davis:I think it's okay, because actually we've done so many interviews now together that we actually do quite jump off each other quite easily.
James Davis:I always, like Claire, speaks to those things you have been visioned absolutely live.
Daniel Wagner:A wisdom of a man in midlife. That's an absolute lie.
Claire Davis:So I'm going to make you go first now. You said that how did we become the Midlife Mentors?
James Davis:We've been working in personal transformation, health and fitness fields via our retreats for about a decade or so, but we were seeing lots of our clients of our age group so late 30s, 40s, 50s and the similar kind of issues we're starting to present over and over. But more than that, it was a bit more personal. It was actually our friends saying things like this is it? This, is it? Now? It's the beginning of the end. I'm not going to advance in my career anymore. I've got to accept low energy levels, expanding waistline. It's basically downhill from here. And we knew with the work we were doing, we were like no, it doesn't have to be this way.
James Davis:Yeah, there's undeniable changes that we're going through at midlife, but it can be such an opportunity. We like to call it the second adolescence. We've got these hormonal changes going on for men and women, but it's a really an opportunity to embrace life. So we set out first of all with our podcast, midlife Mentors, which is just us talking about how to have a better, a healthier, a healthier midlife changes you can make to your lifestyle to get better results. We'd have guests on and then from there we thought we can build a program around this and we know we can, something that's truly holistic.
James Davis:A lot of people obviously are struggling with things like excess weight and midlife. So, yeah, there needs to be that component. We want it to be fit and healthy. But more than that and easy way out, what's addressing going on with the mindset, with the psychology which was our background originally? So, yeah, my background was psychology, claire's was like coaching, stress management.
James Davis:So we put together this program which was all around helping people basically, yes, lose weight, get healthier, get fitter, but more than that, move to a more positive. We talk about moving from obstacle to opportunity thinking. Really start to recognize, I think, at midlife, something that happens is which I think is a combination of experience, accumulation of things, but also the hormonal and neurotransmitter changes we experience that we start to play not to lose rather than play to win. We start to be more fearful about what we've got to lose rather than where we can go. So we wanted to really change people on that and people thinking in a more positive, uplifting way, combined with their health as well. So that's how the midlife mentors came about and how the midlife reset program came about.
Claire Davis:So I told you we could talk. I just basically, I'll just step in the background now.
Daniel Wagner:So what would you add, claire? What would you add? Or maybe give us a female perspective? Because for me, being a man and looking at midlife, I see men struggling more, which is potentially not true but I see that they are less able to share. I always thought the women had that side sorted they sharing, that they're not afraid to speak about changes. But what was their motivation for you to join James in his benton?
Claire Davis:I think you're right. I think I absolutely agree with you. I think men struggle a lot more than women at midlife to express how they're feeling, to actually even acknowledge how they're feeling, to even know what they're feeling, actually taking it right the way back, to actually be able to sit with any feeling and actually understand what's going on. So I think you're completely correct there. I think one of the things actually you saying about having two people on and having masculine and the feminine perspective, I do think that's what's quite unique about James and I, because when I speak to men there's that kind of, there's that feminine approach balanced by the masculine and vice versa. So women, absolutely, it's really beautiful to see how because James is a menopause practitioner as well he's taken the time to understand not just the andropause, which is the male version of the hormonal changes. He's taken the time to do his menopause qualification as well and now obviously he goes into companies, talks to men and women about the different hormonal changes happening. So from that perspective, I have massive respect for James that he's bothered to even understand that side for women. But I do see that response from women as being understood by men and it's a wanting as well with the work that we do to bring men and women together, because I think we've already spoken about this on the 20 minutes before we jumped on to record.
Claire Davis:Relationships really break down at midlife. We're going through these huge physiological changes. We're going through these huge psychological changes, these huge, I would say, spiritual changes. What's my legacy, what am I here for these big questions? And if there's no communication in the relationship, they just start to break down and we're feeling more and more isolated. So the fact that we can bring those two perspectives together in our program and the work that we do, I think is a real blessing for us.
Claire Davis:But, yeah, I think for women, we are struggling, we're struggling, we are struggling a lot more with the hormonal changes is a fact. We're going through perimenopause. That's why I wanted to start working with women, particularly as a menopause practitioner, because I started having my own symptoms of hormonal changes and I really understood how that was making me feel particularly psychological, like, psychologically, the anxiety, the low mood, the depression, the body changes. So, yeah, and I think, having that balance of the male and the feminine masculine the feminine and being able to help women navigate this very uncertain time of their life, we're actually we tend to. What we tend to do is really put everyone else first.
Claire Davis:That's what that's inherent in every single woman, like the priority is everyone, everything else, I would say this is a correct me if I'm wrong, but to the degree that men don't necessarily do their careers, they're very career driven, that they're not necessarily constantly concerned and worried about what everyone else is thinking of them, how everyone else is feeling, putting everyone else first. And so I think when we get to midlife and we suddenly realize we haven't prioritized any of our well being, that can be a real shock as well.
Daniel Wagner:Got it, got it. So there's a few things that my internal barometer just said. Remember what she said here. I want to go deeper here and this is number one menopause, andropause because for most men they might have never even heard their words. So I'm definitely earmarked that for later. We're going to go there because I need to understand or no, I don't need I would.
Daniel Wagner:I have a desire myself to understand what's going on, because there seems to be very little and maybe this is just my ignorance but very little real conversation about that time of life. We seem to be giving people in adolescence support. We then are set on some career path and then it's retirement and decrepitude right. So these are the next phases of life and as we live longer and there's people use, I have different entrepreneurial ideas as well. This is very different.
Daniel Wagner:Also, what you spoke to, claire. I find it really fascinating. The focus changes from outward to inward, even allowing yourself to say what about me? How am I feeling? What am I going to do with those feelings? I think we live in that respect and beautiful times because we have got science, we got some tools. We can actually help people to have what I think is the best part of life yet to come, even if certain things don't work as well as they used to. But where we go next, I would love to go andro-pause, mental-pause. First up, james, how does it feel to be a man who understands women?
Claire Davis:finally, that wouldn't go that far.
James Davis:Well, I think it's really important, right? The menopause didn't get enough airtime. It wasn't well enough understood, it wasn't discussed enough. It does have a massive impact on women's physical, mental and emotional health. We're very fortunate that, certainly now in the youth, there's so much information about it. There's so much awareness around it. Companies have menopause policies. It's fantastic. So being able to be part of that conversation go into organizations and talk to women about the menopause, talk to men about the menopause so they can understand what's happening to their partners feels really great actually to be part of that.
James Davis:I think what we've got catching up to do is on the andropause, because, as you say, not many men have heard that phrase. Not many men are even aware of it, right? I think it's similar to the menopause and the andropause is basically so for men. Our primary sexual man is testosterone and that will peak typically in our 20s and then it declines at a steady rate. So, unlike menopause for women, where you've got this kind of like big fluctuations in eastern and progesterone and then it just tails away. So it's happening in quite a narrow window of time, although it doesn't feel like it for women when they're experiencing it, but for men it's very gradual Could be. We don't actually notice it. Some men won't notice the symptoms at all, but they think between 20, 25% of men and that's a conservative estimate because obviously there's no awareness of it are going to experience the symptoms of low testosterone, which can be confused with aging. So it's things like increased anxiety, loss of confidence, loss of energy, loss of motivation, loss of drive all the things we associate testosterone with. On the physical side, it's the breaking down of muscle mass. We'll start to put on more body fat and of course, libido is a big part of that. So men might start to experience no libido or fluctuating erectiles dysfunction. Then that can lead obviously then to psychological triggers and issues. So it becomes quite complex.
James Davis:And the thing is, if a man is in his like 50s to 60s, there's a good chance he is going to be experiencing some of the effects of low testosterone just on a time basis that testosterone would have declined so much in the system. So I think we need to start opening up the conversation, because the flip side of this is, we've already alluded to women tend to be a lot better at maintaining their social networks and definitely a lot better. The research says they're a lot better about going to their health professionals, about seeking help, actively seeking help. If something's wrong, I'll vocalise it and I'll seek help for it, whereas I think men, we still have this very strong and silent. I've got to internalise it. I won't say anything, I'll bottle it up, which is why, sadly, we have the highest suicide cohort is midlife men.
James Davis:Because we're facing these challenges, we might not even know about the low testosterone affecting us emotionally, mentally and psychologically, certainly physically. A lot of men identify very strongly with their physical bodies. At the same time, it could be we've reached that point in our careers where, as we talked earlier, we thought we'd be somewhere else and we're not there and that's a big disappointment. And how do we adjust that? Or we've got to where we thought we wanted to be. We've invested like 30 years to get there and then we're like it doesn't quite feel the way we thought it would.
Daniel Wagner:Yeah, this isn't what I wanted to do. All these things come to play.
James Davis:And I think there's a danger for men that they can mask this by distraction, the old thing of the midlife crisis of, okay, I'll just go out and buy a sports car and get a 20-year-old girlfriend, or I'll just start drinking more or take drugs. It's a bit scary Rather than, I think, realising what's going on, having that awareness and, like you said, breaking down the ego. I think it's time in life that Jung actually said he thought by midlife, like our ego had got so tired we could finally learn to overrule it, and I love that idea. Like we've spent so long in this ego position, by the time we get to midlife we're just like, oh you know what, it doesn't matter now, what's going to serve me and those around me best?
Daniel Wagner:Beautiful. I find it really fascinating because this is pretty much a new conversation. You must be one of a handful of couples worldwide or my new percentage who acknowledge each other's hormonal changes in a way that you understand what's going on. How did that play into your relationship dynamics? Because I think most couples from my first two marriages and many relationships in between I found it very hard to honestly share what's going on for the fact that I felt I'd be judged, I wouldn't appear strong, I wouldn't appear in control. So, knowing that level of detail about each other, what does that mean for quality of relating? Because that's, I think, another part of changes You're like, what's important getting older is quality of relationships. At least that's what I'm experiencing. So how does it play into it? I'd love to hear your perspective, claire.
Claire Davis:I think I resonate so very deeply. This is my third marriage, so I know what it feels like to Actually and this is nothing against them, because I believe at the same time they were compromising what they were looking for. There's always those two parties, there's two perspectives, but I think I was compromising actually on the depths of that emotional connection with someone and I don't have to compromise on that anymore. I have a hugely deep emotional connection and spiritual connection to James and it is something that we've absolutely had to work on. So I think what the misconception is a lot of the time when people actually see us or they see other couples and they've gone through divorce and they put, oh, it's OK for them, they must have something really unique and really special. But I actually have to really work on it and it wasn't. Yes, there was a connection between us at the beginning, but we really struggled to align, especially in the business and actually in the relationship. To be honest, we had to work really hard because we went straight from dating to working together immediately. That is a tough gig. That's a really tough gig. And I moved over to Abyss. There's to be with James. I left my entire life very quickly to be with him and all the baggage that I thought that I'd worked through, with all the therapy and all the work that I'd do, all the baggage. I was like, oh yeah, the baggage is done. Oh, my goodness, I didn't realise there were still rocks in there, boulders. I didn't realise it was dragging me down.
Claire Davis:And actually when we get into our relationships, it is actually the opportunity to know ourselves even deeper. Actually, I know it doesn't seem like this when you've gone through a relationship break up, but that time where you're single is actually it's very hard but it's actually a very beautiful time because you get to be with yourself, you get to master your own mind and your emotions and really spend time working through those things. When you're in a relationship, that's when the hard work really begins, and I don't ever want to sugarcoat that and I don't ever want to make it seem like that doesn't happen, because it's really going to be hard, especially in midlife. If you get into a new relationship, you're going to have to do a lot of your own self-discovery as a new entity in a relationship, because there's not just the two of you. There's the James, there's the Claire and then there's the relationship and you both need to invest in that beautiful thing called the relationship by working on yourself still individually and coming together to work on that relationship.
Claire Davis:So it's a very long-winded way of saying for the first. We've been together eight years now. The first, I would say, the first three years. We're just really working through so much stuff and actually I'm so glad we had all of those difficult times we had. I can't tell you externally how many different things we had flying at us for family, friends. Then we had the business. We had that kind of being thrown at us. We've had so much to work through and it's because of those things that we are so deeply emotionally, spiritually in love and connected to each other. Because of the hard times, because we had to either work through it or leave each other and it was good enough and worth it enough to work through those difficult times.
Daniel Wagner:Wow, wow. I think we should just let that settle and James just feel the blessing of this which he just said, because that's really special. That is really special. I also love the fact that you say this is your third marriage. That's coming up for me next year, my third marriage, and I feel for the first time, thank you, yeah, and for the first time I feel that's a voluntary.
Daniel Wagner:I'm like, yeah, I'm actually wanting this. This is not because I feel I should, and this is what it's meant to be, because I'm very different, but I love what you spoke about. This In my world, I call it me, you and us, right, so that's, I am easily merging and melting in the us and I sometimes forget who I am in the relationship. And when you're so much with each other, like in your case, we also spend a lot of time together, me and my partner, and I feel sometimes I only sense myself almost with her through her. When she leaves the house, when she's gone, I'm like, oh my God, this is me without her. When the energy, kind of is further away, I have a chance to feel who I am in myself. Right, because there is an us. The relationship is an entity. It is an actual energetic entity that exists between two people. That's the uniqueness between the two energies.
Daniel Wagner:I love how you described that class Beautiful, what kind of. When you say you work on it, work sounds like work. But what kind of work is it? Are you? What is it how you're exploring these rougher parts of the unexplored territories, the when you feel something's not fully aligned, you're not connected. What do you do? You sit down, you face off, you wrestle.
James Davis:All of the above. No, listen, I think one of the pandemics of our time is that everything is so surface. Now. We live in a quick fix society. Everyone wants a quick fix to everything. There's no self reflection and I think we probably fallen out of the practice of it, but it's so important. You want a date, you swipe the app. Oh, this date is no good, doesn't matter, I'll get another one.
James Davis:Actually, when you find the right person, it's so important to to, I think, do the work on the relationship, honor yourself and the other person by doing the work on yourself as well. So this is about, I think, taking time to understand that there's an us, as you said, but there's a me as well, and so making sure I don't lose my priorities, because it can be so easy to compromise so far, but that's a quick way to lose respect, I think. So I think it's important really to have your own priorities and have you do your own things as well and stand strong in your own power. So I say that's one thing, but in a really positive way. I always think when, when relationships go wrong, people say oh, that was good. How, how often do we hear they're like oh, a narcissist. They're a narcissist. It's always blame. I'm like, okay, what could I have done differently there? What can I learn from this? I think that self reflection is so important Always think what could I have done better there, what can I do better next time, where can I learn?
James Davis:So, for us, when we're having issues now, I think it's really important that over time, you build trust and respect and doesn't take the fear out of those vulnerable conversations, but it makes you more able to have them, knowing that you're not going to be judged, you're not going to be ridiculed, so you can have honest conversations. I think it's so important, like I'm feeling this way today and you can say in such a way that the other person says, yeah, this isn't a reflection on me, this is what's going on for me at the moment. I think having that, because often we'll assume we'll try and fill in the gaps. This is what the human brain does We'll fill in the gaps. We observe someone or have a conversation, we're like, oh, what are they thinking? What are they feeling? Actually, the best way to do is just hey, I'm feeling like this today, how are you feeling? Or how are you feeling about what I've said, and just have those honest conversations.
Claire Davis:I also think it's about taking responsibility for yourself, because we often, in any relationships, at work, even we project our own version of the world on everything and everyone and I think, like James was just alluding to there, about, oh, it's their fault, they're the narcissist, they're this, they're that. Actually, I think the biggest internal growth you can have, the biggest growth you can have, is actually, like James said is okay, that's really annoying me in that person. How am I doing that? How am I and how am I doing that? How am I showing up that I don't listen, that I ignore that person or that I'm selfish, like we're in my world, in my internal world, because a lot of the time we're projecting that stuff because we don't want to see it in ourselves, and it's about taking responsibility.
Claire Davis:It's about taking responsibility for that absolutely and that's I think both of us do that. We didn't used to do it, but we do that now and it really brings a sense of peace and calm. Because what also we don't understand is we can't control any person. We cannot control. We try, don't we? I know absolutely I did in my first two, my first marriage is I absolutely tried to control and try and change them. Actually, we absolutely can't. The first time we will have real acceptance around that that we can't change that person. But what we can do is use that relationship to reflect back to us, learn more about ourselves, and in doing so you actually become stronger together.
Daniel Wagner:Yes, there's a lot in it. Actually, in the middle, when James Boker really felt, my heart softened, almost welling up because this fast live society, we can't fast track trust when it's so hard to understand. There is a quality in a relationship that can only come from having been together for a length of time, because, having gone through the ups and downs, my girlfriend I try to fast track things and she said certain things will take time and I found it so hard to accept. I'm like, but I must be able, I must be able to do something to get there quicker. And now we're together for years and I'm realizing what she means. She's opening up sides to herself, to the female wonder that I just didn't have access to before, and she says, yes, there's more trust here. I can open to certain things and as we navigate the rough, the rougher territories or terrains and we realize it doesn't break. That is also that builds something. You're like oh, we can navigate these things. This is beautiful and what James says as well.
Daniel Wagner:In our relationship we have this rule Everyone's allowed to feel whatever they're feeling. This doesn't make me wrong or good or bad or the world, but I'm allowed to whatever childhood triggers or traumas this comes from. I don't even freaking know, and at points I don't care. The fact is, right now I'm feeling a certain way and it might have been triggered to something you've done, but it's not because of you. I'm recognizing my inner world is complex like the weather, and right now I'm feeling this way and whatever that means to you, what it triggers in you, then that's your, that's what happens in you and that is possibly, that's a form of maturity that you need to get to a certain age, to possibly I don't know, but when I was young, I definitely did not have this awareness.
Claire Davis:I agree. I think that also watch, start practicing that you also start to see that in all other relationships as well. And that's why I think when we also get to midlife, our circle of friends change, or who we allow in changes and who we actually say that's not right for me anymore, those relationships aren't right for me anymore. Because I think, once you are able to take responsibility, that I'm being triggered by X, y and Z. That's my thing, that's my responsibility. You can see the relationships for what they are, and so many of my relationships have healed in the last few years because I'm like okay, what is that triggering me in me? Why is that triggering me? That's my responsibility. That's nothing to do with them, absolutely nothing to do.
Daniel Wagner:Cool. You spoke about responsibility and I remember I can't remember which teacher said it to me, but he spoke about living. That below the line is blame, justification, complaining I think it's what James pointed to and above the line is responsibility, and he even said the word means response ability, your ability to respond, which is suddenly a word that we feel we can have a say in. I can increase my ability to respond, I can widen my gaze, I can be more open to what happens again, potentially, I think, an upside of midlife and beyond. I wanted to ask you about the typical people you're helping and what are you helping them with. Claire, you spoke about the letting go of relationships and it immediately showed up for me. I'm like there are certain relationships I just feel have run their course. Difficult decision Is it time to work on them or is it time to say thank you and goodbye and make space for something new to come in? Is this something your clients or people who come to you struggle with? Because this is tough right Making those changes.
Claire Davis:Those changes, yeah, and I think, if you're completely new to it, it is stuff that we help clients with and it's really interesting, I think, for us because our background was always in health and being. I think a lot of clients do come to us because they're physically not feeling Originally. They come to us because they're not feeling particularly good about themselves, they're not feeling body confident, they're avoiding mirrors and this is making their work life suffer. Actually, how they're showing up at work, how they're showing up for their children, how they're showing up for their partners. But I do think that deep inner work that we help them with and give them tools to work through is the stuff that they always leave saying my goodness, I wasn't expecting that, I wasn't expecting the kinds of transformation that I've experienced through your program. Yes, I've got the physical results, because that's our background, that's our qualifications, everything based on science and we need to train in a certain way, eat in a certain way at midlife. There are specific things we need to do in order to get the results we want. But I think mentally and emotionally and spiritually, they walk away to so much more and I think, prioritizing their own well-being by doing our program and working with us or coming on one of our retreats.
Claire Davis:It actually does put a line in the sand of oh my goodness, I am important enough, I am important enough to prioritize myself and it's okay for me to say no to certain things, because every time I say yes to everyone else and everything else, I'm saying no to myself and there's a real empowerment that comes from that. Just even the decision of I'm going to prioritize myself over these next eight weeks or I'm going to go on one of Clare and James' retreats, I am prioritizing myself. So, naturally, once we do that, it's almost like something, a little flame. It goes on inside of us again of oh my goodness, I am worthy, I'm enough, I'm important, and therefore we become a bit more discerning about who we allow to infiltrate our own energy space. Yeah, I absolutely think it could be.
Claire Davis:We have had this. People have left relationships. Having gone through our program, it does happen. They've gone on to find new relationships. They've left jobs, they've started new businesses. So it's a real, it's almost like an act of self love that begins to create this and manifest in no to that, yes to that, no to that, yes to that.
Daniel Wagner:Is it mainly by obviously leading by example. Having built a tribe of people who've gone before, must be huge for you. Oh my God, I'm not alone. This is one of the first huge positive impact. But then the actual practices, the actual change of nutrition or seeing your body change, this empowerment you spoke about. I really feel that is an antidote. It's almost a remedy to what James said earlier, this idea of a decline in the going down and suddenly this new life comes in, this new opportunity. Did you say obstacle to opportunity? Right?
James Davis:Yeah, I think we forget. It's really interesting Forget that we're holistic beings. Everything's interconnected. What we eat is going to indirectly affect our mood, our anxiety levels. If we're stressed, we're going to reach for certain foods, and a lot of this is unconscious for so many people. But when we can actually bring awareness to that, oh, of course. So it's understanding.
James Davis:I think where people go wrong is people like oh, I'm not feeling great, so I'll just do a diet, right, okay, you restrict yourself, you lose some weight in the short term probably don't do your body any good. As soon as you finish, the weight goes back on. So you haven't worked on what's going on inside for you. Why did you get the weight in the first place? You're not working on your energy levels by moving your body. Or, yeah, the other extreme someone might do nothing physically but just go and be like oh, I'll meditate every day, I'm meditating, but I don't feel any better. No, because you're still sitting on the sofa eating pizza every night.
James Davis:We're so interconnected and once you understand how all these things flow, it actually becomes a lot easier. I think it's not about going. I need to meditate for four hours every day for the next six months. It's oh, if I change my diet this bit, if I move my body here, if I do these mindset practices, just small things, actually has a massive change over time. So it's, you're right, we've got the community there, which is great, really supportive community I think they can see people who've gone before but really helping people understand what's going on for them holistically and giving them the tools they can just do on an everyday basis that just take five, 10 minutes to do and then over time and they see the impact that has on their lives positive impact that has on their lives.
Daniel Wagner:Got it. So when I joined you on the call or when I decided to reach out to you, I was thinking I could either try to extract some detail what exactly are we doing here? What exactly are we doing here? But I feel this is really for people to find out if they want to work with you based on what we speak on here. But what I wanted to get is the overall philosophy, and I'm now we're now, I don't know 40 minutes in or something, 30, 30, oh, 33, it says a time and I'm getting some really beautiful cornerstones, and that is the holistic approach that these things take time.
Daniel Wagner:That is actually about self love and waking up to the fact that I am. I have to be feeling worthy of doing something good for myself. I'm allowed to do it, I'm editing my life, I'm a creator of my life, and that those things might not happen overnight and they're not easy. That's what I, that's what landed in my world from what you said. So the question that's next for me and this is a personal interest question, james, and actually both can answer, I'm sure what can? I'm laughing now because I'm slipping into a roll.
Daniel Wagner:There's a friend of mine who is 57 and needs some help. James, it's not about me, I'm fine, but I think he's. Yeah, I mean ask for my friend. No, I'll be honest, I'm asking for me myself because I'm worth it. How can men this man here, and men in general, when they are experiencing what you earlier called a sign of the client testosterone, which is not a, it's not unique, it is something that's scientific and medical. But what can we do to counteract it? Because it's great to say, oh, I'm acknowledging it's happening. But what can we actually do? And this is when I would love some specifics. What can I? Let me speak for me. What could I specifically to increase my testosterone, which makes me have maybe more of an edge, bring back some of the lost libido that I sometimes wish I still had? What can I do?
James Davis:The ultimate. There's a lot of lifestyle adjustments you can make. The first one is we know we're losing muscle mass. So for men and women but for men, for testosterone it's really important that we do some form of resistance training. That could be in the gym lifting weights, or it can be at home with body weight or simple equipment like kettlebells, resistance bands. But we have to start building muscle. So that's number one resistance training. When we train in that way, we actually will give a temporary elevation to testosterone levels and human growth hormone levels.
James Davis:The second way of research on this instances of rectal dysfunction are much lower against men who have higher levels of cardiovascular fitness. So we want to work on our fitness levels as well. We want to combine, maybe like high intensity interval training because it sure gives you the endorphin boost as well for your mood, it's good for the cardiovascular system with resistance training. So that's the physical side. On the nutrition side, we want to make sure that we're eliminating endocrine disrupting foods from our diet. So these are foods that will actually interfere with hormone pathways. The main culprit, to be honest, is sugar, and in the Western world sugar is placed in absolutely everything. So we want to start educating ourselves on food labels and reducing the sugar in our diet. Sugar is inflammatory to the brain, to the body, to the gut. I'm a move to a diet that's more into like whole foods and get more protein in as well. So, of course, if we wanted to build a muscle, we need more protein. So you'll lean red meat, your fish, your poultry, nuts, seeds, with lots of leafy greens, fresh vegetables, fruit, stuff like that. That's the nutrition side.
James Davis:It's also really important to note that testosterone has an impact on your psychology as well, so we need to be actively working on our mindset To be something like every morning just doing a short gratitude practice. So three things I'm grateful for from yesterday, three things I'm grateful for generally in my life. What's my intention for today? Exercise like this. It's so important that we work on the mind as well as the body, and if we do all those things, we are going to start to feel a lot better. Now, of course, if your testosterone levels are very low, you can have the option of going to your doctor and getting tested, and then you can go on to testosterone replacement therapy. But that is not for everyone, because once you start, you'll shut down your own testosterone production. So that's like. You will then on it for the rest of your life. So there's a lot of factors to consider with that.
James Davis:I urge anyone to make sure you're doing the lifestyle adjustments first, right, yeah, similarly for women with HRT Some women they get the HRT and they're like I'm not feeling any better, you're still not exercising, you're still drinking a bottle of wine a night. So we have to make the lifestyle adjustments. But there's so much we can be doing. I'd say for men as well. Really important to, I think, make sure you have a connection with other men. Have a friend or friends that you can talk to about this stuff. Get out, spend time with men doing stuff in nature. This will all make a difference. It's so important that we can be totally invested in our relationship with our partner, but we need time around with other men as well and just having these open, honest conversations and allowing that vulnerability to come through, because by sharing what's going on from us, we get permission for someone else to share what's happening with them.
Claire Davis:I would also just say on stress, because obviously my background is stress management consultant and actually what happens is when we're all highly stressed, especially in midlife, we're called generation squeezed is another term that we're called at midlife, because we're squeezed from all directions.
Claire Davis:And I think, man, we know that physiologically, when we raise our cortisol negatively impacts our sex hormones. It actually depletes our sex hormones even more. So if you, as we're all experiencing, men and women, a dip in our sex hormones, cortisol is a negative amplifier for all the other hormonal changes that are going on. So we've got to learn to manage our stress levels and it can be through physical activity, it will absolutely be through nutrition, but it will absolutely be finding stress management tools breathing techniques, meditation, like James has mentioned, getting out in nature, where the Japanese call it forest bathing, because it actually allows the cortisol to go down. So doing things and actually even acknowledging it, acknowledging that stress is the silent killer and I say that with so much passion because that's why I became a stress management consultant in the first place years and years ago because it has such a negative impact on our health and mental and physical health. So making sure that we're looking at stress is really important.
Daniel Wagner:That's incredible. I think we're under so much from news and social media and the devices we use, the little I know about our neurology. If we are constantly in fight, flight, freeze response and so-called trauma response, our healing part of the body, the parasympathetic can't the rest and repair part of our body cannot really function right, and I don't think most people even know the addiction to dopamine, these short hits of something to stay constantly, to feel a certain aliveness, but it comes from stress. I think that's why it's so hard to slow down. I'm speaking to I'm speaking to Carl Honore in a couple of weeks, a written boulder, and he's the founder of the slow movement.
Daniel Wagner:It's a challenge to slow down, especially if we're getting older. We think we have less time, so we need to speed up. Right, get it done. I'm behind on my promise, right? So I really I think it's almost a separate conversation, claire, on stress. Maybe we can meet again and just dive into that, because there's plenty in here for at least a course or a couple of episodes. So, summarizing what you said, james, this is absolutely something we can actively address and tackle through small lifestyle changes, but not something extreme, but literally starting to add certain things, edit out other things to keep doing that. Is it something you? Can? You go to doctor and have your testosterone tested, because I'm always a believer in mixing the science in as well. Having it on paper what kind of levels are healthy that we can look for?
James Davis:So, yeah, you know, and get a blood test which will show you the amount of testosterone, but you'll get a lot of doctors. It's probably best going to a specialist clinic, right? So doctors, I think in the UK in their six years of training they'll get two hours on the menopause and probably nothing on the andropause or low testosterone. So when you get a blood test, you get like total testosterone, which is telling you how much there is in the system in total. But actually the important number is free testosterone, because 98% of our testosterone is bound to stuff in the system. So it's that 2% level that's really important. You could have like normal levels of total testosterone, but you're free to be low, meaning you'd still be feeling the effects of andropause. So, like I say, if you are feeling it, then do go and get tested, but if you're going for testosterone replacement therapy, do talk to a specialist about it in depth, because it does have another impacts down the line for you.
Daniel Wagner:I would be honest, that was a huge alarm bell for me, because you know when you look at, oh, how can I supplement it? And then when you said, the terrible result is that then you're shutting down your own production. So I think that's a huge consideration to make. Would you want to become dependent on any form of external supply or anything? Got it, Claire? I would love to ask on behalf of all the women listening. James has given us a little breakdown on certain bits we can do to combat or dance with andropause. I don't think combating is a good attitude towards it, but what can women do? Is there a similar thing? Is it compatible with what men should do? Can we do it together or the opposite?
Claire Davis:No, it's absolutely. It's really interesting Because actually that's why our program is for men and women, because actually, what we're speaking to different hormonal pathways to a degree, and we're talking about different sex hormones, but actually lots of other pretty much all the other hormones are doing pretty much the same and actually how we manage to boost our metabolism, which is slowing down at midlife, also to align with our hormones. They're quite similar. So absolutely it's about doing resistance training, it's about doing cardiovascular fitness, a particularly hit that's actually been proven to really help at midlife, and it fits in with our lifestyle because it's short and intense. It's absolutely the same with the sugar, with the alcohol, with going to a more whole food diet and all the mindset stuff, managing stress.
Claire Davis:So there isn't really anything over and above what James has mentioned specifically for women, like James, was talking about connection and going out and just making sure that and this is across the board just really making sure that you are doing new things. So this is one of the things we talk about a lot, just generally, but in our program as well making sure that you are stretching yourself outside your comfort zone, because when we young like James I think James said this right. At the beginning, we play to win right. But then when we've gathered all this stuff around us the partner, the house, the car, the car, the status, the ego we're really afraid to lose it. We're really afraid to try anything new or fail at anything, and that's actually like our demise. Our brain starts to a trophy because we're not learning anything new, we're not putting ourselves out there. So one of the things that we say on our program for both sexes is making sure that you might be trying a new sport, a new hobby, going and meeting new people. Just get yourself out there in the world and allow yourself to experience new things. It's really important to life longevity, but to make sure that we just feel more alive, that we actually feel like we have a purpose, it's so important. This is the spiritual side.
Claire Davis:I don't necessarily like using that word. We don't really use that word. We use emotional wellbeing in our lives, but that emotional connection to your why we don't have to have all the answers Again. That really frightens people. I don't have a purpose, I don't have a passion, you don't need to. It's fine. Go and try some new things. If it's not for you, go and try something else. That's how we start widening our heart space. That's how we start widening our experience and our connection and our energy to things. Because we try new things, then we stay, we feel stuck because we're bored.
Daniel Wagner:Got it what I'm hearing, and thank you for this passionate plea for life and the life in it, because it's very true that it's quite normal. Right, people are starting to play it more safe, but what they're unbeknownst to themselves? They narrow their experience, their emotions, they let in what is allowed and not allowed, and it's protecting and protecting the body and keeping what they got. Of course, that signals to the whole nervous system. It's hibernation time, it's the end of autumn, we're getting into the cave. It's the time right. I read a book once called Younger Next Year and it says springtime in the savannah. We need to signal to the body it's springtime, we're out, we're about, we're alive, we're. All senses are engaged, we're trying new things, we're excited, and that opens everything. It's not how most people live and it's also not how midlife and beyond is represented in the media and shown right. So I think both you and both I have, luckily, our work cut out, which means no retiring yet.
Claire Davis:No, hallelujah.
Daniel Wagner:Hallelujah, Exactly, Retirement. Different conversation again, but I checked it out. The French word tiray means to pull away, to pull back, and I think the big question is why don't you have a life that you don't want to retire from anyway? Why have you got a life or a job you hate so much, you want to pull back from? Why did you not make those decisions? And I really feel some of these hard conversations about purpose and yes, I'm with you, Claire, it's so easy to escape some spiritual notion of oh, what did you come here to do? And to be All right, you might never find the answer, but you surely are. The human being knows what lights them up when they feel switched on and when they're not. And if you follow that, what Campbell used to say, follow your bliss. Greatly misunderstood. But really you need to try different things, Otherwise you don't even know what lights you up. Right? Most people definitely live a life where they're not lit up, where you meet them and you're like it drains your battery, it's just being in a great vicinity, right?
Claire Davis:I know I try and say just find. What we're going for is that feeling where we were like children, where we were in awe of things. Can you remember that time where we just well, we felt excited and grateful for the tiniest things? And that has nothing to do with this whole bigger story of having a purpose in life or making a massive impact. Yeah, okay, I want to make a massive impact in the world. I really do. But actually what I've realized as I've matured and got older is it's in those little things in life, in every single daily life, that I notice and I'm all over. I have that little moment where I'm really grateful and thankful. They're the things that make me feel alive.
Daniel Wagner:Got it. What about you, James? What makes you feel alive and connected to that in a crowd?
James Davis:People have just forgotten Do what makes you happy, and I don't mean happy in terms of an escapism thing. Actually, when you do it you feel joy internally, because I think we spend so much time not doing that in the modern world when actually we should just be. I say, chasing your bliss. Do what makes you happy, what lights you up, and when you do that you will find you've got an energy that then that attracts other people and gives them permission to do the same.
Claire Davis:Like cold water swimming, we do like cold water swimming. So it's like your things like that.
Daniel Wagner:We love cold water Did you just use the word like and cold water swimming in the same sentence, Actually love cold water, swimming, it's those little things.
Claire Davis:Actually, it's going for a walk in the winter sunshine. It's here in the crunching of leaves underneath your feet, and actually that's about being present. And we're so busy living in the past and the future we absolutely forget to be present. And that's where joy is in the present moment.
Daniel Wagner:Wow, that's quite a profound statement, claire. It's almost what can be said after. That presence is where the joy is oh, I got it, I got it. And actually I believe what happened to us from minute 33 to now 50 minutes is exactly that. We went into some timeless space. We just flowed, we had fun, we enjoyed each other.
Daniel Wagner:This wasn't about how can my podcast reach more people so I have more impact. It was just us human beings connecting being. I get excited if somebody reflect something back to me which already I know to be true and I'm like wow, it's true for them as well. Right, that makes me feel like, oh, this is good, I'm not alone, we belong.
Daniel Wagner:And I really believe that both midlife mentors and midlife mastery, what he tries to do is say to people you're not alone. What you're going through is not a unique human experience. It will feel very unique to you, but if you pull back the curtain and understand what's going on, speak about it, share what you're feeling, there is a great way through this and sometimes in life the only way out is through, and I feel, with my midlife master and the challenges, some of the stuff you can't avoid, you can't go around it, you can't go over it. You can't go under it. You got to go through it and with help, mentorship and coaching, which obviously we all believe in, otherwise we wouldn't be offering what we're offering. Really love the conversation. I have 10 more topics I want to get into and explore. The last thing is, for anyone listening if they're still listening what could they do to find out more about you, claire and James, and your program? Obviously, that's the website, but what would be a great first step to see if they could benefit from what you're offering?
James Davis:Yeah, I'll take them over to the website, which is themidlifementalscom. There's a button on there. You can book a call with us. We love chatting to new people, so you can just book a free 20 minute call with us. Yeah, I'd say that's the best way. And then follow us on our socials, as well as posting our personal stuff and the midlife mentors on Instagram, facebook, tiktok.
Daniel Wagner:Cool, yeah, but what I'll do in the show notes of the episode I'm going to put some of these links in so people don't have to remember them now. So I'm going to put in links to your preferred socials. Let me know what you want me to put there. I really enjoyed meeting the both of you and you're sitting in this beautiful winter sunshine in London. I miss London. Both my kids are there. I'm not living there at the moment, but I feel a strong connection to this beautiful town that you're hanging out in. Thank you for your time today. Any last words, although Claire's last sentence presence is where the joy, lives and gratitude, lives and timelessness and flow pretty profound. Anything else you want to add to that Both?
Claire Davis:No, just to say we've absolutely loved this conversation. It really is, like you said, so amazing to connect with other like minded people and to share this time with you. Thank you for having us.
Daniel Wagner:Yeah, thank you Cool, thank you Claire, thank you James, and for anybody want to find out more, links below and the Midlife Mentors. Thank you for your time today. All the best and take care.
Claire Davis:Thank you so much.