Midlife Mastery - with Daniel Wagner
Midlife - the main words associated are 'crisis' and 'spread'. But what if we challenge the societal narrative and make midlife the opportunity of our lifetime? What if it was our invitation to become more intentional, live more purposeful, and use our accumulated wisdom to contribute to the world around us? In Midlife Mastery we'll explore ways to do that. So that the best is yet to come.
Midlife Mastery - with Daniel Wagner
Art Blanchford on Beating Workaholism, Burnout and Finding Fulfilment: A Midlife Guide to Authenticity and Intention
Have you ever caught yourself equating your worth with your job title, or felt trapped in an endless cycle of work addiction? My guest, Art Blanchford, joins me to share his profound journey through Workaholics Anonymous and how embracing the concept of 'having enough' can lead to midlife mastery. Together, we examine the spiritual roots of workaholism and the liberating effect of disentangling our identities from our work, offering insights that promise to guide you toward a more balanced and fulfilling existence.
Burnout can be a transformative force, as I found out personally at the precipice of my 50s. This episode is more than a recount of my own story—it's an exploration of transition, courage, and purposeful living. Art and I discuss the pivotal conversations and courageous decisions that have reshaped our lives, underscoring the importance of intentionality and trust in a higher power. We aim to arm you with the wisdom to navigate your own life transitions, especially for those in the throes of midlife, seeking to redefine success and find genuine fulfillment.
This conversation is a heartfelt celebration of the healing powers of authenticity and intention. We dissect the journey of self-discovery, from confronting trauma with therapies like EMDR, to the invaluable lessons Art has learned from endurance sports. Art and I invite you to join us in creating a world where vulnerability is a strength and authenticity is championed, understanding that true healing, both personal and planetary, begins within. Tune in for a heartfelt narrative that promises to connect you deeper with your authentic self and inspire a life lived with unwavering purpose and intention.
Hey, daniel Wagner here from Midlife Mastery, and in today's episode I've got Art Blanchford as my guest. Now there's something quite unique and special about Art, and not just all the great stuff he's got to share, but the way he came to this podcast is that I was approached for the first time a proud moment for a fledgling podcast host. If people start to notice you and reach out to you and somebody said, hey, this will be a great guest for you. And I absolutely agree. Very aligned in so many things. We agree on values, the mission in itself. His mission is about life in transition, helping people transition, and obviously that's what Midlife is for so many of us needing help with transitioning our values, our careers, our relationships. So much going on. So, without any further ado, let's have a great episode. Art Blanford, here in the studio with me. Speak soon.
Speaker 2:It's really good to be here. I love listening to a few of your podcasts. I knew right away when you're talking about God and faith and when you're talking about Michael Singer I'm a big fan of Michael Singer and listening to about midlife transition, I mean, there's a lot I'm doing in that space. So I'm really happy to be here, really happy to get to know you and, as you said, see so many parallels.
Speaker 2:And that story that we were just talking about that I heard from Ryan Holiday was this party with a bunch of billionaires and there was a, you know, a guy more like you and me, a normal guy author, and he was talking to this billionaire I think it was Peter Thiel. Actually he was talking to, yeah, and Peter was talking about all the stuff that he was doing and all this that he was accomplishing. And this guy said, well, I have something that you will never have. And, of course, to a guy with billions of dollars and big ego and a lot of accomplishment, that's really hard to hear. And he said, no, you can't have something I don't have. And he said yes.
Speaker 2:I do. He said I have enough Wow.
Speaker 1:Didn't see that coming.
Speaker 2:That's really you know. I let that one resonate. I think you know, as we just talked a minute ago, I've been a Workaholics Anonymous now for coming on four years. I've taken it really seriously. I've completed the 12 steps. I sponsor a lot of people and one of the affirmations in there is I am enough, I have enough, I do enough, and there's a lot of those that I remind myself every day and it's just a completely different life than the driven life I used to have before my midlife transition.
Speaker 1:I think it's really fascinating art because, you know, accomplishment in the world is one thing, but what it is driven by is the actual key right. You can be a very wealthy person, and if it's driven by a real desire to help others, absolutely fine. But if it is driven by a lack, by a fear of not being enough, it will never be enough. Exactly as you shared, that's definitely a key moment. Talk to me about Workaholic Anonymous. I've done the 12 steps, not in that specific flavor, but when I discovered it first, I mean for me it was recovery, a real recovery from drug addiction twice in my life. For me, this is a spiritual program. Whoever downloaded that 12-step blueprint? It starts with a couple of really key distinctions. Would you mind sharing what, for you, was the big aha? You said you've been working the program now for four years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I mean the realization. A lot of people, especially in America, but in the culture you lived in London as well, workaholism is almost a badge of honor for a lot of people. Right, I work so hard and all the time and I am my job and I act like you know, it's my company and the big distinction for me, the difference between workaholism and not workaholism, is not even so much the hours that you work, daniel. It is whether you identify with your job, if you think you are your title, your position, your power, your work and you find yourself at your desk to avoid feeling, to avoid the difficult conversations with your spouse or your kids or things that you're not quite as good at. That's what makes you a workaholic.
Speaker 2:There's actually studies done at the University of Rotterdam and Syracuse I want to say the joint university where they studied hours and there's no correlation between health degradation and the hours. You work between 30 and 65. They only went up to 65 because that's the only. That's as far as the data was really accurate. After that people are saying they're working more, but it's hard to verify. There's no correlation in workaholism for the hours, but the to turn it off. That's where the health effects come into it.
Speaker 2:You can't turn it off if you think you are your work, if you're thinking about it when you're going to sleep, if you're thinking about it in your dreams and when you're waking up, if you're thinking about the dinner table. Right, this is what makes it workaholic, and there's 20 questions they have to help. You see, when I first took the test, when I was sick in bed and my wife's like maybe you should take this test, honey.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you scored very highly.
Speaker 2:I had 13 out of 20. I'm an alcoholic, but when I looked back a year later, Daniel and I wasn't in denial anymore I had 19. Wow, this is how we. That's what I had a year before, but this is how we.
Speaker 1:that's right, I had that year before, but this is how we insert expletive swear words with ourselves, right we?
Speaker 1:We trick ourselves into believing all kinds of things we spoke about earlier when you shared part of your story. And I would love to talk about identification, because if the spiritual path is anything in my own understanding now, it is the mistaken identification with a set of traits or persona or who you believe yourself to be and of course that's a very fragile self-image, right, If that was taken away and we both have a reference. My own reference is you know, when my company was taken away, I had identified so much with the guy on stage, the seven-figure pizza boy, the guy who came from nowhere and became this thing, that when that role was taken away, there was boundless, it was groundless, it was a bottomless fall until I landed where I had to land, feeling all the things I had not felt right. But I want to talk more about you because you shared. It was pretty much the beginning of COVID, when you had your experience of this understanding how identification with the work became a problem. Do you want to share that story in some detail for us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would love to, and I think it's really useful. And it's one of the things that I think especially men and you know, with positions of power or success don't talk about. And that's what I'm really about now in my life is to open up these conversations. So I found myself in bed during COVID here in Nashville, outside of Nashville, tennessee. I had been running this in super intense global job traveling around the world once or twice every month job traveling around the world once or twice every month and I was sitting in bed thinking, if my company finds out I'm sick I was executive officer number two in a big public company If my company finds out I'm sick, they're going to fire me and I'm going to starve. Like that's how fast my brain was right. They're going to fire me and I'm going to starve. And I had a million dollars in the bank and that's what I was thinking. I mean, that's how driven I was, that I had to be perfect and I couldn't make any mistakes.
Speaker 2:And then the news came on in the TV and the news was saying hey, if you are out of a job or if you're afraid to go to the grocery store because you're afraid of COVID this was April or May of 2020. So we were right in the teeth of it, where everybody's dying, nobody understands it, everybody's afraid, schools are shut down, everything is shut down. They said you can come to the NFL team, the Nissan Titan Stadium, and there are people and they showed them there's people in hazmat suits in the back of semi trucks taking baskets of groceries and they'll set them in the back of your car. And I thought, oh, I'm not going to starve because I can go to the Nissan Stadium and get groceries from the back of the truck, you know. So that's how tightly wound I was at that point. Super successful, looked like I had it all together. You know, married 25 years.
Speaker 1:Super irrational, my friend.
Speaker 2:Very irrational, very irrational like what's driving, you know, but that's where I would, that's where that's how tightly I'd been wound and how tightly I'd been running, and that's that. That perfection was driving my workaholism, like thinking I didn't have any worth if I wasn't perfect at work all the time and in some ways I'm really successful but it also almost killed me but this is success as defined in a Western world, right, the outward traits of success.
Speaker 1:Going back to the beginning of our podcast, the story about you know, I have something, you don't have. I have enough, right, I mean that is success. This is, oh, it's, maybe it's better than that, right. But I'm curious because you said you had this super successful job and everything looked great from the outside, but you literally came back from Asia and you went into. The German word for burnout is a Schöpfungsdepression, which is literally depression of exhaustion, right, which I think is something men don't like to call it. Burnout sounds like hey, man, I've worked so hard Exactly, my mind was even working harder than my body could ever do. So here I am, burned out, but a shock from separation, I think, is a beautiful word. I mean like you exhausted yourself to level where your body should say no more.
Speaker 2:Right, share what that meant to you and what you did with it, because, yes, it's tragic I've been through a version with myself but what he did with it, I think is important yeah, I mean, I think the thing and this was with a lot of help from the fellows in WA to let go and let God to be willing to tell the truth about it, right. So I had a conversation with my boss that said, hey, I'm sick, I'm really sick, and I'm filing for a long-term disability. And he's like, no, that's okay, don't file for long-term disability, we'll just pay you and we'll take you. Know, we'll get the job spread around to other people and then you get healthy and we'll see what you know, we'll see what comes. But then also to say and I don't want to work any, I don't want to work here anymore. You know, I had been interviewing for other positions but I didn't have the courage to. I didn't have the courage to ask for what I wanted, to leave the company.
Speaker 1:Is it tightly wrapped up with self-worth? You didn't have the courage to ask for what you actually wanted because you were afraid a no would mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it wasn't that obvious that it was around self-worth, self-worth, what it was that I just didn't trust, like I thought I had to control everything and I had to leverage it. And I'm a master negotiator, I've taught negotiation classes, I do multi huge part of recovery. But what I did is I just I had the you know, through recovery I had the courage to say, hey, I'm done, I really want to leave, I need a break. I mean, to admit, that was really hard. I mean I was Superman and I said, hey, I need a break and I don't want to go work for the competitor, but then I'd really like to be able to take my stock with me, even if it's not all vested Cause. Otherwise, I need to go work and make more money and I need a break in between.
Speaker 1:How old were you at this moment?
Speaker 2:49.
Speaker 1:Isn't that the age yeah?
Speaker 2:exactly. That's amazing, and I heard you talk about this on some of your other podcasts, Daniel, but I also thought I was alone in that at the time.
Speaker 1:You know now I know a few years later that almost everybody goes through this much exactly to that day 4950, that year and it is so devastating because it felt like everything was going linearly towards the illusion of there is a flag on the top of the mountain right, just got to climb the mountain once. I'm there and of course that never happens right. And when that's taken away it's devastating. And men and I think this is a particular men discussion they do identify through status and prestige. We need to understand whether we belong in tribe and society to find our bearings right. We need to fill that role. But I think what's fascinating with your story is what you made sense of it, because not only did you say no to the job, you actually decided to move into something very different. Do you want to share a little bit what you do today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and that was a very yeah, it was a very scary thing for me to do, but I really I learned a lot through my own transition and I realized there's a lot of other people. I have a small blog called Friday Reflections I shouldn't say small blog, I'm 90-something episodes now. I do every week and a lot of people started reaching out to me. I post on LinkedIn, which is the only place I had any kind of social media presence, and a lot of guys started reaching out to me and I realized that I learned a lot about transition and that I always you know, at a heart I've always been a teacher and a learner and a teacher right Both. And even in business, it was all about leadership. That was the way I was successful in business was about leadership, and so I have that blog going.
Speaker 2:Then I started a podcast called Life in Transition, looking at how do we make the most out of the changes that life gives us right. How do we really, you know, to have richer, more deeper, more meaningful lives? And yeah, I have a small consulting company too, but, as I shared with you a little bit and that's it's good and it's the old life and it's paid a lot of bills the last couple of years, which is great, and I'm really leaning into this. How do I help us? You know, in the narrowest sense it's also men. Of course it's everybody, but in in the narrowest sense it's men that are successful, as you've said, that have gotten to the point where they said, yeah, I've arrived. You said, well, we never really get there. Well, I thought I had got there. All the goals I put in have gotten there. Why do I feel like shit, right.
Speaker 2:And to help people in that situation, people as a whole, whether it's losing a spouse, or I have an episode coming out tomorrow with Steve Kiefer, who's a former president of International General Motors, who lost a son at 19 years old. And how do you deal with that? Right? So these really tough transitions, how do we make the most of those? So that's where my focus is right now, and I've written a book. It started just being to my kids, but I don't know if my kids will ever read it because, you know, kids can't hear their parents. They have to hear from somebody else. But I'm hoping this can be the wisdom for the other people's kids that are coming of age, called purposeful living, wisdom for coming of age in complex times. That's coming out in april 6th and, uh, you know. So that's what I'm leaning into, and just leaning into a life better and trying to give back and make a difference for other people and have meaningful conversations you're using slightly different words to me, but it's the exact same mission, right?
Speaker 1:I mean people who are successful and just wonder what's still missing, or you know this emptiness that you never I mean. I really I'm so grateful that I at one point was a millionaire and I want everybody to experience that, that the money, what you think it will give you, it won't give you, but you need to experience that yourself. The illusion that it holds holds. It's so powerful. I mean, I think it's, I think it's in conversations with god, neil donald walsh, who says wanting can only produce wanting. And it took me forever, but at one point I recognized what he was speaking to the energy of wanting, the frequency of wanting can never be going away by receiving or having, because wanting is a frequency of wanting. And I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. What a realization. So let that be there, but do not expect it ever. The thirst will never be quenched. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think we have this. Sri Kumar Rao talks about this that we have this if-then equation with happiness If I have a million dollars, if I have the BMW, if I have the marriage, if I have the title, if I have the seven-figure income, then I'll be happy. It's this if-then, but it never works out that way. No, and that happiness really comes from and I love this what he says Shushi Kumarao. He says happiness comes from being fully present and accepting and loving the moment that's around us, fully, with no alteration, like a rainbow. You know when a rainbow arrests you when you stop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is awe right. This is the moment of awe and I speak to the same thing and I'm fascinated that we have so many. I guess that's why we found each other in the world.
Speaker 2:I love Neil Donald Walsh.
Speaker 1:Heard him speak about 15 years ago in Michigan and have his book. This is what Michael Singer speaks to, right, the lostness in thought and emotional worlds and missing the moment. This is one of the greatest sad tragedies of modern life. Right, this, living the tomorrow, living the better tomorrow, just the striving, the illusion of that is so painful if you actually and I lived years of that when I wasn't present with my kids because I was planning the next whatever, right, and looking back it's a lot of sadness still to this day for the moments missed. Right, and you're absolutely right. Being present to the present moment and accepting how you feel, that's it. That's the secret. You can finish the podcast here. Ladies and gentlemen, we've just revealed to you the secret to happiness. Now living it is a very different story, right?
Speaker 2:There is another piece, too, that Shri kumarau talks about. I mean, michael singer and I have his little card deck and every most mornings when I'm home I pull one out and take a look at it, and the one I like the most is where he says you should not spend a single moment wishing for something to be different. Just appreciate the moments you're given, full stop. And that's's what you're saying. But Sri Sri Kumar Rao talks about that.
Speaker 2:That's the first piece, except and be in awe of the current moment, with no adjustments. But he said there's a second piece and this really resonates with me and this when I was going through this transition, this dark period of total liminal space, you know, where everything was unknown and I had no direction and was trying to figure out what's next for me, I see the importance of this. So the second piece that Sri Sri Kumar Rao talks about is he says and there's something that pulls you, there's something that God made you here for to do not for the result of doing it, for the doing it, and to know that and to let that pull you out of bed and let that be the action that pulls you forward. He said a flower doesn't bloom because someone's going to take a and to know that and to let that pull you out of bed and let that be the action that pulls you forward, right? He said a flower doesn't bloom because someone's going to take a picture of it. Yeah, flower blooms because it's its nature, right?
Speaker 2:And for us to bloom is to do what is our nature to do, and not because it's going to be a bestselling book or we're going to make a million dollars, but because that's our nature to do.
Speaker 1:This is the inside out approach over the outside in right, instead of saying where is the new market I can go to, western niche I can exploit, but saying what am I in service to or what is what? Am I taking guardianship over right? And I? I do not know the gentleman you speak of, shri kumar kumar rao yeah. So I don't know him. And from my experience, the second aspect arises out of the first aspect.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because if you're attracted to what is and accept what is, then you can even listen to the so-called pull or the impulse. And I just feel our whole society has been so obsessed and even the purpose question can drive you crazy. I sat in countless seminars where people say just listen to your heart, find that purpose, and I would go home more depressed than I arrived. Right, I'm like, so how am I gonna do that?
Speaker 2:right and the purpose is not often like the vehicle of the purpose can be a lot of different things. Right, I did this process and you can see I mean I have this journal that I've been working in the last four years with a lot of work and I did this one with and I've looked at this every moment, every day, for two years to start my day, but I did this with.
Speaker 1:It's from joe dispensa yes, I like joe's work as well, where he talks about something to the cloud for contribution, nice.
Speaker 2:What's interesting is he doesn't talk about like a big purpose. He talks about what are your intentions and what are the feelings that you want to experience yeah, I like how he works.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, there's so many modalities that look at the past forever. I call it rear view mirror driving right. It's useful to a degree. We need to look at the past forever. I call it rearview mirror driving right. It's useful to a degree. We need to look at some of the big traumas that keep us blocked. But once that's done, I really feel, let our prayer, our intention, our desire, our longing, you know, take us to where we know we can be, and let that inform the field. And you're right, the miracle is set up right. Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2:And we don't have to know the outcome. Right, that's the big thing. We don't have to know the outcome. There's another wonderful book right here, the Lion Tracker's Guide to Life. I heard of it but never heard of it. Very simple book, but the one takeaway that I have from that is that don't try to think about where the lion is. Just look for the next track. Beautiful, he's an actual lion tracker. He's like if I find the track and then I lift my head and try to imagine where the lion is one I can never imagine because there's a million options and two I'll lose the track.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. They just do what's so. Are you aware of a guy called Tim Rohn? Do you know Tim Rohn?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I love Tony Robbins.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Tim says you know, he said you keep sowing the seed. And he said if you leave the field, if you leave the field, right, I mean, your job is to sow the seed the miracle is set up. The rest will take place. Is that if you chase the birds, you leave the field, don't worry about the birds. Some seeds will be eaten by the birds yep and this is so similar, this same analogy.
Speaker 2:All I need to do is focus on what's right in front of me yeah, and I've been living into that like this was right when I wrote this one for the career was right before I got sick. It was March 2nd of 2020. No 2021. So it was after I was sick. But I put down there for my intentions, for my career or contribution. These were my intentions my thoughts, teach others, share, learn, travel, but only once a quarter, not once or twice a week. Once a quarter to interesting places with my wife, meet and hang out with great people. That helped me grow. Make at least $250,000 a year one quarter of what I was making. But I said that's enough, right, make $250,000 a year, be my own boss, have my own business, work less than 30 hours a week, have fun at work, connect and help people. Connect with and help people and tell useful, fun, interesting stories. That's all I had a picture of at that time.
Speaker 2:As far as my intentions and the feelings, the elevated emotions, I was even more connected with that and still am. So the first one I wrote down and think about this coming from a corporate world right, freedom, joy, peace, gratitude in love with life, enthusiasm, worthy love and connection. I have none and when I look at those, I have all but one of those intentions already checked off, but it's not because I was doing a particular business. It's I was doing consulting business where I was doing these things. I'm doing podcasts, doing these things. I'm doing real estate business with my family, which is doing these things. So all but once I'm not traveling yet once a quarter with my wife. I'm traveling once a quarter, about once a half, with my wife, but everything else in that list I'm already running.
Speaker 1:Pretty exacting, isn't it.
Speaker 2:It's shocking, but it's not like, oh, I didn't know at that time I didn't put I'm going to have a podcast or I'm going to have a book or I'm going to have a book. I didn't know what it looked like, but this was the features that I wanted to have.
Speaker 1:I feel it's really important to notice, even just for you and me, because I run this podcast, just because I want to speak to interesting, but if somebody should be listening, I think that's a component here that if you create a list, like Arthur's speaking about the expression, the form of how it will find in the world is undefined and Grace has a million ways to express that. As long as you're clear about how you want to feel, in what way that shows up is so much wider and deeper than we can ever imagine. The idea of saying I will design this, how, the way it's going to look, you're limiting the creation by 99.99%, right. Why on earth should it happen exactly the way you want? You are setting yourself up for unnecessary trouble and hardship, right? But if you just and I'm such a fan of this simple idea of saying if I can get clear about I'm a musician, so for me, frequency or tone is something I can really understand If I am resonating no, resonance is the law that's set up but if I'm getting clear on my frequency and I think speak and act in that frequency the clearest way I can and this is a daily, you know, excavation then I don't have to worry about the second part what will be brought to me, what the universe will bring to my door. It's going to be a match, because that's how frequency match works. It's how resonance works. But, of course, if I can send, if I send different, distorted signals, thinking of who I should be, what people expect of me, and I create that frequency, then of course I attract confusion because that's the frequency I send. I attract chaos, which is not chaos is the order of the universe. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:Um, I'd like to go to a topic that we touched on a little bit in our short preamble and you spoke about your drive for your success. Was, I say, toxic? You didn't say toxic, but you said it was driven by something that, very early in your life, through an experience in a cult, was an imprint that was very unhealthy, that led you to, ultimately, the burnout and also this beautiful new life you're creating for yourself. Do you mind sharing a little bit what was wrong and this is not about the cult or the, but what was the imprint that created so much unhealthy, painful behavior for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm happy to do so because I think it can be really useful for others as well. And this is in episode seven of Life in Transition podcast as well, if people wanna get a more detailed story on this. But I saw a very tough abuse situation of my mother when I was five or six years old by the cult leader and at that time I had thought that the cult leader I knew he was God because that's what he was set up to be for us, but at that point he was a benevolent God up until that point, and now he was an angry, violent, vengeful God and I got it that if I was going to survive like if I wasn't going to be beaten and maybe killed because I was a little kid this was the thinking that I need to shut up, quit crying. In other words, shut up and please the man. And I got that message really clear and I immediately did that right then.
Speaker 2:And then I had been doing that to some or less, more or less degree my whole life with teachers in school and professors at the university and in corporate America, which served me really well, and it's not that I had good values and principles, running big businesses and did well at those, but the underlying fear and that anxiety that drove me to that fear of if I make one mistake I'm going to be fired and starve, that unhealthiness, that obsession came from I have to please the man. And I didn't realize that until I was in a therapy session at 49 years old, when we were doing EMDR on that event, and then realized, wow, that's what's been driving me my whole life and that episode is called From Cult to Captain of Industry, because that was both the good and the bad that came with that.
Speaker 1:But to let that go. There are two aspects of it and thank you for sharing that. You know, and I agree that we're sharing these things not to look at me, what I've overcome, but to say maybe it's helpful for somebody who experiences similar patterns and wonders what could be underneath, and I think it's interesting. You mentioned EMDR. From my knowledge, is one of the more successful complex trauma interventions we can use, because the nature of trauma is that it's so beautifully tucked away. Obviously we couldn't deal with the situation back then. So there's a reason we create a protective behavior set and the story and tuck it away for later. But later never comes. So these techniques that allow you to look at it and I applaud whoever did the therapy with you, because many times these things cannot get unearthed unless there is a safe environment and there is a fear that we will never go there.
Speaker 1:And this is, I think, why many people who do not do let's call it personal development on a very broad scale, why their middle age and old age becomes narrow, because they're avoiding getting triggered to a degree where life becomes very small, because more and more is stored up and pent up and not processed to a degree where they become irritable, which is often how old age was portrayed, until the new breed of super ages, right, but this is maybe why people get grumpy, because they just get the tanks empty and the system is full and they have no way of processing, right? I mean, if we keep getting rid of some of the old stuff we talked earlier about joe jordy spencer and this idea of rearview mirror driving it's great to resolve some of the traumas of the past, but you can look in the past and find something forever. Or you can say great now, with this newfound freedom and energy and unbound, what am I going to do with this free energy? And I think this is where what you call contribution comes in.
Speaker 1:You still seem incredibly busy writing books, running this, doing that, doing this. What's the vision? What is it you're moving towards? Where you're like? Art is in heaven. Art is fulfilled, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean I think it comes back to what we talked about earlier is these two things One is to really be in gratitude and present in every day, and I have very, I'm gonna say, strict practices that I do to help me to stay on that rail, so that I'm in the present. I'm checking in with my feelings, I'm praying, I'm checking in with God, I'm trying to see your universe, whatever you wanna call it, what their desire is for me that day. I'm addressing these parts of me. You know these. You know whatever I'm feeling is connected to a part of me that may have served me well in the past, if it's a negative emotion, anxiety or shame or fear or anger. And I'm doing these things every day to keep myself in a good space, which I'm still not always, but I'm much more than I used to be.
Speaker 1:And then, I'm Sorry, go ahead, carry on. Yeah, just when you said negative emotions, you'd made a little quote mark. So the people that haven't seen the video you made quote marks in the air. It's an interesting discussion for me. You know, human beings have created duality of emotions the accepted ones and the ones we don't want to show and hide. But for me, all of them are aspects of ourselves, or parts, or and. And. When you said I'm not there always, maybe that's not even the goal, right? I?
Speaker 1:yeah, absolutely, it's just it is what it is, but being with it and not judging yourself is definitely right. I for me, it's so hard to have a bad day and say, oh, a bad day, wonderful right. So to be detached from the oh man, I should be better, I should be stronger, I should be more positive, I should be further along in my path, I should be more grateful. What am I doing?
Speaker 2:you know, I'm not being with what is right, yeah, no, that's for sure. And making peace with what is the first step to happiness. But I think when, as a musician, I think you'll like this analogy as well that I see that if you don't have the low notes, then you can't have the high notes in a symphony, right, yes, if you didn't have the bass, how do you know what's high and what's low? And so it's not that those are bad emotions, but the ones that, by trying to avoid them, we get stuck in them and we need to be able to move through them instead of let them be stuck with us. So I used to like, I used to really avoid feeling sad because I thought I'd get depressed and be you know, be stuck.
Speaker 2:And now, you know, I notice it and I don't like if I, if I'm doing a morning check-in with myself and I'm like, okay, what am I feeling right now? And I'm like I have both fear and joy. And then I go to the fear first because I don't want to get stuck there. A lot of people say, oh, we should focus on the joy glass half full or half empty, which I mean that's also true. In some mornings I do. But I'll usually go to the fear, because that's the one that's going to be blocking. If I don't experience it, I'll say, okay, where am I feeling the fear in my body? Who's feeling it? What part of me is feeling it? It's usually something that's come from a trauma or something in the past that's wanting to protect me or wanting to get a certain, and I'll have a conversation with that part of myself and then that clears it.
Speaker 2:And it clears it. So, then, what I can experience is the peace and presence of the current moment.
Speaker 1:And then I can be clear. I almost would love to slow down the conversation here because in my world that landed us a massively profound statement. Right, and I do that myself. So we have a similar practice. When I do my morning check-in and I see what's alive, I call it or what wants my attention, and I feel attention here and fear sits normally here and anger sits somewhere else.
Speaker 1:And to even invite that to the table, if it was a part of you, and say, okay, what is it you want to tell me? What is here To avoid it, shut it down, overrule and say it means it will come out somewhere else, right, but if you invite it and it is felt through and it had its moment, it naturally, I say, dissipates or transmutes Transmute is a better word it is actually not there anymore and it's not suppressed, it's not caged, it's not locked away, it is invited, felt, seen. And then you said a second part which I absolutely love, and then the nature of the present moment, which is joy, which is peace, is felt. Right, it's always, I find it fascinating. The world is always peaceful, but I cannot feel it as such. Right, it is always. The nature of the universe has not changed, but I am not in sync with it so I can't access it.
Speaker 1:I felt this is one of the most fascinating things when I learned early in meditation that I don't have to. It's not about a process of going somewhere or augmenting or reaching, but the opposite right, take away the mass, the occasions, the confusions, the thoughts, and what's left is who you've already been anyway. It's like what a joke, right, right, what a divine joke and riddle Crazy. Hey, you say you help men in transition. That's weirdly what midlife Mastery is meant to be. I thought it's for everybody, but the people coming to me maybe because I'm a man, I'm sharing my transition moments there seemed to be more resonance. How do you help them? I mean, what are you? I mean, what's the process to help them through transitions?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's several things. I mean, obviously, the podcast is serving that space as well, and hearing other people's stories, but I think one of the main things that I do is I host these groups, these mastermind groups with men that give a safe space for people to start to have conversations that they thought they couldn't have, that they thought they were going through on their own. And I have this on my website. I have this booklet, eight Steps in Midlife Transition, that you can download, and it's the eight steps that I've found over the last four years for my own transition. Like what has it been necessary for me to be able to let go of everything, in a sense, that I thought was important in the past and come home to myself, as you said, and then to be able to go forward. And so we host these spaces. And then we have retreats too.
Speaker 2:I just had one in my home in New Mexico in February. I have another one coming up in September where we get together and have these conversations and we're engulfed in nature and have meaningful, real conversations. And these are, you know from my own judgment, men that I wouldn't think would be into this type of thing. These are successful, fit, financially well-off, you know leaders in their communities, but they're looking for a connection and looking for real conversation and looking for what's happening. And one of them said the september or this february event. You know they said there's something magic about this place, like there was. There was two pairs of brothers there at that event and and that was one pair of the brothers saying, the connection that I just had with my brother and the way that he opened up, I've never seen that before in at least 10 years.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:So those are the things that I'm working on, whether it's the podcast in general about transition, which I have a really ton of very interesting guests from all over the spectrum, whether it's dealing with paralysis or loss of a spouse or a child or retirement. There's really interesting guests on the podcast, as well as my own story. And then there's eight steps to mastering midlife transition and the support groups that we have there and the retreats around that.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. I'm really happy we have online mediums, right. You and I wouldn't have met if it was not down to these digital ways. And yet, when we meet in 3D, when we do retreat 3d, when we do retreats, when we do men's circle, when we do men's retreats, magic, I think, is the right word, because it's mysterious when you let the field inform the group. I'm doing some really profound work with a guy called taj steiner. I'm doing a facilitator training right now in in group dynamics, in heart circle and circle dynamics, and it's unbelievable what is available to us if we allow it in and we're not blocking it with our doing mind and our controlling, and I am facilitating a thing. So I really like what you shared. That are life retreats right.
Speaker 1:Interesting, absolutely when you say it's this man is successful and got all the trimmings. If you had to say and it's a bit preposterous to even say there was one thing, but what would you say? Uh, is the one thing they're looking for you. You said connection, but what is it? They were missing until they realize it. What is it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it is a sense of a community where they can be authentic without the risk, you know, without the. You know that's it a community where they can be authentic? And I think you know there's especially if you're successful there you're always worried about well, how is this going to affect this person If I say this? What are they going to think about that? Or what does it mean for their wellbeing? Or, you know, I had one guy on those midlife transition group. He said, can you drop it to just MLT, because my assistant sees midlife transition group? He said, can you drop it to just MLT, because my assistant sees midlife transition meetings and she thinks, maybe I'm going to shut down the company. Yeah, Like what am I going to shut down the company or something.
Speaker 2:So there's just, you know, there's so many places in our world where we're worried. Well, what will my partner think? Or what will my business partner think? Or what will you know that my employees think? Or all my parents think? You know we're so couched we don't need to be, but we think we have to be. And then to have a community where you can be really authentic and really open and see that there's other people then also struggling with the same thing. You're struggling with Cause most, and that's the main difference, I feel like, between men and women is that women talk about this stuff and men don't, and I'm trying to give a space, a container, a safe container community where people can talk about this yeah, I believe the exact same thing.
Speaker 1:and awareness, a normalization, experience of knowing I'm not the only one is huge. And then the second aspect and is if you're not being judged, when you have the courage to open up, you're creating a new blueprint that, oh my god, I'm still loved, I'm still seen, I'm still loved, I'm still seen, I'm still respected, although right now I admitted a weakness, right, and I was always fascinated by the idea that what we call a personality trait of a low empath profile, narcissist, sociopath, psychopath these people are quite rare in normal society, but in leadership and politics they say it's up to 25%. So we're rewarding a personality disorder disproportionately in our society because they show the so-called qualities of leadership. And I know it's going to make you cringe, thinking right, but that's the so if these people admit weakness. I mean you've got a presidential race coming up.
Speaker 1:We've got two beautiful examples of that. It's like where is the humanity, where is any sense of authenticity or realness in this? And the answer is if they were to flip into that, it would be devastating. They would be gone, minced right, gone, minced right. So giving men an opportunity to say no, it's not just okay, it's encouraged, it's a quality. It's a strength right, I think you're doing very good work here. My friend.
Speaker 2:Very important work, Thank you, Thank you. It feels like it to me and I, you know I don't know how it'll end up, but I'm very encouraged by the people that it's helped so far. I'm very encouraged by the way that I feel doing it and the energy that it gives me, and my life is in a way that I couldn't imagine a few years ago. And so far I'm still eating and I'm not worried about starving.
Speaker 1:I think that's fascinating, and my health is back 100%.
Speaker 2:I'm training for Boston.
Speaker 1:I've done my first Ironman, that's pretty extreme though man, I mean I'm I can say my health is better, my mental health is better, my emotional strength is better, but training for an Ironman, that's pretty intense. My friend, yeah On my 50th birthday.
Speaker 2:You know I had this wonderful gift on my 50th birthday. I have five brothers and sisters and another four cousins that I'm really close to and they were all here for my 50th birthday at my house here a couple of years ago and it was the most complete feeling of belonging and acceptance and love I've ever had in my life. Wow, when these you know 40, 50 something people that are so close to me toasted me impromptu and all these different ways and some that I had no idea how I had affected them, and in that moment I thought you know what I'm going to do? An Ironman before I turn 51. And I did. I picked one 11 months later and I started training and got a coat and completed the Ironman and that sort of felt like okay, now my health is pretty well back.
Speaker 1:What did that do for you? Did you need that to prove something to yourself?
Speaker 2:No, it didn't, it wasn't. It was about, and it was so interesting, like I see, athletics. I learned so much through endurance sports and athletics because, um, before I was doing them before, when I was still a workaholic, when I was still in my corporate job, I what I did is I turned them also into work, right?
Speaker 2:so I was constantly measuring myself and looking at my watch and, okay, calculating in my mind, like if I keep this pace then I'm going to finish at this time and I have to get this result. And then when I came into workaholics anonymous and I came into this part I mean of course I knew intellectually about being present, but to really start to practice it then the race is just like the goal is just an excuse for the training, like an excuse to transform my body. And then the race is like and not just the race, even the training, I'm hyper excuse for the training, like an excuse to transform my body. And then the raise is like and not just the raise, even the training, I'm hyper present with the training. And then the race, like I remember the first half Ironman I did after I had this realization, I never looked at my watch the whole time, only for heart rate.
Speaker 2:I never had it set on heart rate but I never, so I wouldn't go above a certain heart rate. I never looked at my time, I never thought about it. On the swimming part, there were so many lessons in the swimming because to learn to swim, the number one thing I had to do was to consciously slow down to go faster. It's this military approach Slow is steady is smooth is fast. Who was like this was really an amazing thing to think. Wow, actually, by slowing down and spending less energy and focusing on going slow and being in the stroke and body position and just on the process and don't worry about the outcome at all. You know, when I first did that 25 meters or 50 meters, to think I did that a year and a half later for 2.4 miles in this big bay with no stress, even though I was getting hit by a jellyfish almost every stroke no
Speaker 2:stress right, I love that. I love like I was standing in I knew I was there's jellyfish because I did a pre-swim the day before and I'm standing with all the other 700 people getting ready to do this iron man my first iron man and the guys I said what about the jellyfish? And the guy next me said, yeah, it's a great reminder to say a prayer for somebody you love. Wow, I'm like this is the people I'm hanging out with, right? It's not. It's not as effing jellyfish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so it did every so every time I get stung, which was probably I don't know, and they weren't like man of war jellyfish, but they still. My whole feast was like the unwelt when I got out and every time I hit one I just had to say a prayer for my daughter, for my wife and it changed my outlook.
Speaker 2:Like so I would get stung, so what it's not. You know, it's not that big a deal. I put on benadryl cream they had with the at the tent. When I got out rubbed it all over my face and hands because that's where I had the. I had a wetsuit on, so that's where I had the. I had a wetsuit on, so that's where I had this thing. Hopped on my bike, rode 112 miles just fine, you know so there's a lot of things I've learned.
Speaker 2:So now, athletics is an endurance, is about being present, you know, and it's also about the process, like and following the inspiration we talked about. You know, taking that next step without worrying about where the lion is right, just to find the next track and take that track. So in September, I had this inspiration. I tried to qualify for Boston when I was in my 30s and couldn't. And the time has gotten much faster since then because there's so many more people doing endurance sports, but it's always been in there. Can you do it or can't you do it? And I deferred the dream by telling myself which is this lie? We tell ourselves a lot like oh, I could do it if I really wanted to.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The fact is I don't know if I can do it or not. I still don't know if I can do it, but in September I just thought you know what I'm going to see if I can. I haven't done a. I haven that qualified. That's my age. I he gave me a couple of coaching recommendations. I called two of them that day. One of them called me back that day. I signed him up and we started in.
Speaker 2:October and since then I've improved my estimated marathon time already by probably 30 to 40 minutes, which is amazing. I mean, I and I'm doing a marathon next month which I think I will PR at, but I don't know. And people say well, why are you wanting to box?
Speaker 1:I really. I mean, apart from the accomplishment and I applaud you for going there it's true we tell ourselves in almost like an excuse story. We have this fear coming up. We're like yeah to right, maybe not maybe not make it real, right, make it real and then be with whatever. The result is exactly and I'm perfect.
Speaker 2:Fine, you know, if I can't do boston, I'll let it go. Fine, yeah, but and here's the thing I'm really clear about people are like are you really excited about doing boston? I'm like, actually not, I'm excited about the transformation and my health in the journey. I like that. I mean right, which I've already.
Speaker 1:I've already had, I mean this is a Jim Rohn quote from one of my earliest days in the nineties, when he said you know, he said become a millionaire not for the money, but for the person you have to become to achieve it. And I buy into that idea. And it's the same here run the Boston marathon, not to run the marathon, not to beat any time, but for what it means for you, who you have to become, to even be there. That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:So I and that's. I did a 10 mile run this morning. Six of those miles at eight minute pace. If you're two years old, that's pretty. You know that's pretty good.
Speaker 1:Good for you, man, that's a five minute kilometer pace.
Speaker 2:to put it in kilometers further I have no context for friend.
Speaker 1:I could I some people will.
Speaker 2:You said it for my age it's not fast. I mean that the winners are doing five minute miles right to win a marathon, right, but but so that that's the difference. So, yes, I am doing a lot of stuff, but I'm not attached to the outcome and I'm enjoying it as I go and like, even like I mean think about the fact that I'm driving back and forth from new mexico and tennessee you said 18 hour drives yeah, and so I.
Speaker 2:So I take, but I take two days, at least two days. I stay in and, like last night, I stayed at a night before last day in a nice hotel and Oklahoma city in a location where I knew it'd be pretty to run the next morning. So I had seven miles cruising around the whole city on my feet and this beautiful part of Oklahoma city. I stopped at a Canyon in Texas that most people never heard of it's like the biggest canyon in the United States and did a little bit of hiking there. So it's like I'm enjoying the process. You know people, oh, it takes so long to drive back and forth. Life takes long. What do you want to use it for? Right, when I drive back and forth, I'm with my kids, close proximity to my kids, for two days at a time. It's really wonderful.
Speaker 1:This is taking long and thank you for sharing that it triggered. I had one of my deepest realizations on a long distance flight to America when I realized I'm not going anywhere. It was an absolute experience of oh my God, I am here and the world is moving through me. You know I'm not traveling, there is no arriving. You know illusion. I'm flying from London to New York, maybe, maybe not. The illusion is I'm flying from London to New York, maybe Right? Maybe not Right? Whoever calls these things and defines things and puts labels on who knows?
Speaker 2:But in life, yeah, but life definitely isn't a destination and we get so stuck in that Like, oh, I'll be happy when this happens, I'll be happy when I retire, let's drive, let's get the kids raised. No, let's not. Let's experience being with the kids.
Speaker 1:Because the truth is it will never be what you think. You know, we've done it countless times. This is not saying I'm over it I'm never doing it but I know that you're missing the moment if you're doing the, if this then that equation right, or you're waiting for the 21 degree eastern degree.
Speaker 1:Stay with you, know that's yeah. I learned a lot from michael singer in that. I really think he, the way he describes this virtual path, has totally demystified it. He took it away from eastern mysticism to. You need to be okay with yourself inside, you need to be okay with the emotional and mental world and then get on with it, right? I?
Speaker 2:mean you talked about a minute ago. You were talking about how a lot of people, as we get older, if we don't heal ourselves, then we have more and more. Our world becomes smaller because there's more and more things that trigger us and we don't want to become triggered, so our world just gets smaller. And that makes me think about, in the untethered soul where he talks about, that we're living in this house in the dark, yes, and we think then that the world is dark and scary, but it's really just the prison we've put ourselves in by not healing ourselves right. And so that's why I think I feel like right now to say it bluntly our most important mission as an individual which is going to translate into for the planet is to heal ourselves. Yes, so I'm working on that myself. That's my primary goal, myself, my friend, and then to help other people to heal themselves right whether so?
Speaker 1:I'm working on that myself. That's my primary goal.
Speaker 2:I'm working on that myself, my friend, and then, to help other people to heal themselves, right, whether it's my kid, whether it's the men in my men's group or the men in my midlife transition group or people listening to my podcast If we can heal ourselves and not have those walls and have our hearts be open whatever happens. Right and Michael Singer talks a lot about that too. That's the way I want to live and I'm making progress, I mean step by step, less complaining about things not being the way I want them to be, and just being present with what is.
Speaker 1:And being kind to yourself in that process, right, because the expectations we have for ourselves is sometimes. I noticed that many years ago that I'm so much more accepting and lenient in my judgment of others compared to myself, right, isn't that it? And I figured out in the meantime, or unearthed, some of these voices are not mine or where they come from, but it's very true.
Speaker 2:And I think on that one, you know, I've been reading the New Testament in the message version Eugene Patterson's, where it's translated directly into modern English, and someone asked me the other day, like what's the minimum you can do to be a Christian? And I thought about that for a minute and I think about where Jesus talks about you know, not the Ten Commandments, but these three things that you have to do. And in Eugene Patterson's version it's this Love God with everything you are. That's first. And then the second one is not love, it's love others, not love your neighbor. Some translations even say love your enemies, love others. That's the second thing. But how do you love others as you love yourself? So actually you have to switch these two. It's actually love God, make that connection, but then you have to love yourself and then from that love you have to switch these two. It's actually love God, make that connection. But then you have to love yourself and then from that love you have of yourself, then you love others.
Speaker 1:I hear you. I prefer to love yourself. You can't, it's by proxy right and it's not real. Who is loving?
Speaker 2:I've seen this most vividly in my children. Like the first, it's by proxy right, you can't and it's not real. Who is loving right? I've seen this most vividly in my children the first 18 years, 19 years of being a father. I checked all the boxes, daniel. If someone had been looking on the screen, oh, yep, he did everything right, but I wasn't loving myself. Wow. So my intention with loving my kids, with reading to my kids, with hugging my kids, with tucking them in, with buying them presents, with taking them on trips, my intention was about holding them in the same way that I held myself, which was that I had to be perfect and build this perfect life, and they were sort of accessories to my perfect life. Wow, that doesn't have anything to do with love. That's when I figured that out. It blew my mind and it was heart wrenching, but I completely shifted.
Speaker 1:I can imagine. I can imagine, but we do that. We have checklists for everything, everything including what a success look like, what is a good life, good marriage, a good father, like right. So I think these have to be dismantled and reassembled from truth, from what we experience to be true, right, yeah, wow, what a conversation. This is the longest conversation I ever had with anybody on this podcast and I feel we Sorry, I'm not a talker, you know, I could go forever this could be a four-hour podcast without breathing, without oh wow Any last words.
Speaker 1:not last words, but last words for today in this podcast, for anyone who's listening.
Speaker 2:Well, first I would like to say thank you, dan, for a very interesting conversation and for meeting another seeker along the path, another man in midlife transition and is really trying to make a contribution, so it's really a pleasure to be here with you. Thank you. And then I would encourage people listening, you know, whether it's my podcast or my websites but to reach out, to find a place where you can engage and be authentic on a regular basis and every so often, face to face. Yes, I love digital media, but it's not the same as making friends.
Speaker 2:you can smell as well I like that and so to engage and whether it's you know, you can find me on life and transition, podcastcom, or art blanchfordcom, or you can find daniel here on, you know, listening to podcast but I think, to find that community where you can be authentic and where you can start to I think midlife transition to me is another thing I'm thinking about right now, as it comes up as a place where you can finally lean into your authenticity and worry less about your belonging and trust that, because there's always this balance as we're kids we want to belong to our family, but we don't know if we can be authentic and belong, and so as we come into midlife, we can dial down the opinion of others and we can lean into our authenticity and from that authenticity, find our belong.
Speaker 1:So find a community where you can be up, whether it's one of mine or somewhere else it's been a great pleasure, art, as I said, I knew so little about you and I feel it was an intense, deep dive into getting to know each other and I really hope we'll meet again, thank you so much Thanks, Daniel.