Lucy Score on Building a Backlist with Series as well as Standalones

Episode 060 / Romance author Lucy Score joined us to talk about how staying in her lane and creating a backlist of titles, all with a similar tone, has contributed to her success. Our conversion ranges from craft to setting boundaries to how Lucy works with her publishing team.

Jami’s novella launched last week, and Sara locked up her computer trying to install an update.

Come over and say hi to Jami and Sara in the WIKT Facebook group! You can find show notes and links at wishidknownforwriters.com.

In this podcast episode, you’ll discover:

• Why every detail in a book is a way to deepen character
• How Lucy uses series as well as standalone novels to build her readership
• How she transitions new readers into her back catalog
• Her assumption that writing would get easier and how that was wrong (we all have a good laugh about that one!)
• How she nurtures a positive atmosphere in her reader group
• Lucy also breaks down her publishing team and their roles
• How Lucy uses exercise, meditation, and boundaries to help her handle stress

Links: 

Lucy Score’s website

Instagram handle: scorelucy

Facebook Author Page: https://www.facebook.com/lucyscorewrites

How to Write a Series by Sara Rosett

Write Better Faster

The Big List of Craft and marketing books mentioned on WIKT podcast episodes  

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome to the Wish I'd Known Them podcast, where we focus on how authors found success, looking at strategies that have taken them to the top of the bestseller charts, as well as what they've learned from their mistakes. Because being an indie author is more than knowing the latest marketing trend. It's about being innovative and creative and learning from your mistakes.

Sara 0:25

Welcome to the Wish I'd Know Them podcast. I'm Sarah Rosette. And I'm Jamie Albright. And this week on the show we have Lucy Score.

Jami 0:33

Yes, we do.

Sara 0:34

Yeah.

Jami 0:35

Love Lucy. She's the best.

Sara 0:37

Yes, it's a great interview. And we just we talk about so many interesting things. Um, one thing I thought that was really interesting was she talked about how um she had been writing in series and she switched to writing standalones, and that was how she kind of broke out and got new readers in. And I thought that's so interesting. You know, I'm all about a series.

Jami 0:59

She she still writes a series, but she will do she commits, I think she said to two standalones a year. Yeah. And um, yeah, they they really do well for her. And uh she grows her email list, she gets new people into her series that way. Yeah, she's that's she's just so smart, but more than that, Lucy is really and truly one of the kindest people I know. I mean, she's just so generous and so kind in the community and to other authors, and she's she always tries to stay positive.

Sara 1:31

And um yeah, and we talked to her about that about like how she handled 2020 and you know what she what changes she's made to kind of stay sane.

Jami 1:41

Um parameters around her life, and you know, you guys will hear about it in the uh podcast. But yeah, I mean, just she's really someone I I really do look up to in the community. So yeah.

Sara 1:55

Um so stay tuned for that. So what have you been doing this week?

Jami 1:59

Uh not a whole lot. Um I've been writing and um yeah, just I well, my novella launched that happened on Monday and it's done really well. Um great reviews, but um and I am seeing an uptake in my bride series. So hopefully that means that people are getting the no, you know, the bride's novella and then reading through. Um it's been interesting because this week um my ads as soon as um March 1st hit, it seemed like my ads were going up the cost per click started going up on my ads. It's kind of weird. I don't know if that's a thing. But uh they're still okay, but yeah, but other than that, that's just what I'm you know, just normal stuff. How about you? You had anything but normal.

Sara 2:49

Well, yeah, my computer just did not want to install an update. And so I've been to I have a desktop and iMac and I've been to the genius bar to drop it off and pick it up. And um, I have everything backed up. I have a time machine and I have so much now in Dropbox and Google Drive that when it happened, I was like, I'm fine, it's okay. You know, and it I even had, you know, that day when I finished writing, I exported my file, which I don't do like all the time, but I've I've started doing it more often. And and I have all those script files in Dropbox anyway, but you know how it is.

Jami 3:26

It's like oh it's scary, it yeah, it's scary. And you think, oh, what if there's one thing I need that I don't have? But um, yeah, I'm glad it worked out for you.

Sara 3:37

Yeah, so it seems to be I'm reinstalling everything right now, so we'll see how that goes. But I did that and um been a pretty good writing week. I'm getting near the end of the book, and that always goes better for me once I get through that saggy middle part. It's much better. So but um I was one thing I was gonna mention is that um in the podcast we talked to Lucy about um she's taken the strengths finder and she said one of hers is one of her high number things is input. And I have that too. And I was thinking about this the other day that that means that like you just want information, you just want to bring information in and take it in and just learn stuff and find out about things, and you don't ever know if you'll ever use it, but you just want to know it.

Jami 4:20

Right.

Sara 4:20

And um, and it also you have this thing where like like if you have a notification, a little red dot, you want to go see what that is. It's harder to ignore things. And so I don't have trouble ignoring social media, but I've started doing this thing with my email because it really bothers me. If I open an email and I don't answer it right away, I'm like, well, I'm gonna do my whatever I need to do, and I'll go back later at the end of the day and answer email. It drives me crazy if there's like 10 open emails in there that I need to respond to. So I've created a new folder in my email that says to answer, and I just move all those down there, and I'm trying to just go in and work in that folder maybe twice a week and just answer everything all at once, you know.

Jami 5:00

Like Oh, that's a great idea.

Sara 5:01

Yeah, yeah, I'm doing okay on it. I've you know, there are some things that you have to answer or that that it's to my benefit to answer them right away, you know, and keep things flowing, like a cover or something like that, that you don't want them to wait three days before they get your reply. But um, so it's going okay. It's uh I'm gonna try and keep trying to do that, but just having it out of my inbox, it just makes me feel better. So I thought I'd pass that along if yeah, if anybody else has that issue.

Jami 5:29

I do have one other thing, and it's kind of one of those things that ties back to the storm and everything. I had just um found um uh like hired narrators for my homecoming king that I'm gonna produce, you know, do myself. And turns out, and I was really careful because I wanted somebody with a good Texas accent. Because in my other books, I'm not as happy with that Texas accent as I I think I could be. And um turns out that the nar the male narrator that I got lives in Texas and had just a ton of damage and a studio was yeah. So the the female narrator who's actually coordinating everything, and um, she messaged me and said, like, do you want to recast it? And I said, No, it's hard enough to find. It's been hard. So right now let's wait and see. So we're gonna kind of touch base in a couple of weeks and see where he's at. Because at this, you know, I I know exactly how he feels. I mean, you can't get anybody out, you can't so um anyway, but yeah, that's just a little thing that you wouldn't think would affect the your the book world, but it does. So yeah, very weird. So yeah, I'm just being really I mean, the book's already out, so I'm not it's not like I'm on a strict timeline or anything like that. But I think it's important if you're gonna do it yourself, you get the people you want. Yeah, yeah.

Sara 7:03

I mean, it's not like you have to have it out by a certain time, you know. So you might as well get the people that you want. And it's probably not gonna be more than a couple of weeks, I would hope. I hope for him, it's only a couple of weeks.

Jami 7:17

For him, more than more than me. But anyway, yeah, that's that is one thing that happened this week that I thought, oh, that's kind of weird. But um, it's good. So, and then also just real quick, we you guys are the nicest. I mean, I have just you guys are posting in other groups about us and and um you know just saying how much you enjoy the podcast and it's just so great, and we really appreciate it so much. And it, I mean, I just it just warms our hearts when we see it. So thank you so much for um telling your friends about us. And um, you know, if you haven't left a review, leave a review. But if not, even if you don't do that, we still appreciate all your kind words. And yes, we do.

Sara 8:00

It makes our day.

Jami 8:01

Yeah, and don't hesitate to reach out if you have a question or you have a suggestion or anything like that.

Sara 8:07

Yeah, yeah.

Jami 8:08

All right. Well, let's get on with Chev.

unknown 8:11

Okay.

Sara 8:11

Here we go. Well, today we're super excited to have Lucy Score with us. Hi, Lucy, how are you doing?

Jami 8:18

I'm great, thank you for inviting me. We're so glad you're here. So happy.

Sara 8:22

Very exciting. Let me read your bio and then we'll get right into the questions.

Jami 8:26

All right.

Sara 8:26

Lucy Score is the author of the Wall Street Journal and the number one Amazon bestseller, Pretend Your Mind. She grew up in a literary family who insisted that dinner table was for reading and earned a degree in journalism. She writes full-time from the Pennsylvania home she shares with Mr. Lucy and their obnoxious cat, Cleo. So I love that about the dinner table being time for reading.

Jami 8:48

Yes. Love that.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Oh, Cleo's there with you right now. She is. She is. She and only because she refused to move. Yeah. It's hers.

Sara 8:58

I'm sure she'll be a fantastic podcast guest.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

I think so. She will definitely show you her butt.

Jami 9:05

So, Lizzie, tell us how you got into writing.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Um, I think it I can blame my parents for it. Uh, they were huge readers. So growing up from, you know, my my first memories are going to the library and sitting down and reading with my parents, or my parents reading to us. Uh, we definitely spent more time reading at the dinner table than we did talking or watching TV. Uh so I think it was almost predestined for it. I definitely had, I grew up with a huge love of books. And at for a long time, I thought that my mom kept saying, why don't you write novels? That would be, wouldn't I think you could be a novelist? And I was like, no, that's I can't write a novel. That's that's that's too hard, by the way. It totally is.

Jami 9:51

Yes, it is too hard.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

So I ended up going to school for journalism uh because I thought that that was still writing, and I thought it would be easier and more interesting uh rather than spending all of that time on one project. And so went to school, got a degree in journalism, and I hated it. I hated it, it was definitely not what I wanted. So I also happened to take a bunch of creative writing classes while I was in college and fell in love with writing fiction. And uh I worked after college, and it, you know, it just was not, I wasn't happy. It wasn't what I wanted to be doing. So I would come home and just scribble little scenes and notebooks. And um, when I was working at the newspaper, Fifty Shades of Grey came out, and the women in the newsroom were passing it around, like, oh my gosh, you have to read this. This is wild. So I read it. And when I read that, I was like, you know what? I I think I can do this. I I delusionally thought, you know what, I I'm gonna give this a shot. So I started working on a novella and started digging into self-publishing. And I I knew very little about writing and very little about publishing. Uh, but I managed to release a tiny little novella and sold 35 copies of it on Amazon, mostly to family. That's great. And I was really proud of myself, and then I was shocked when the money didn't come rolling in. So I kind of just let it go, you know. I was like, well, I gave it a shot. And my brother, in the meantime, he was in a forum online that kind of covers all topics of everything. And he had been sending me information on self-publishing and things like that. And he posted in that forum when I published my book, he said, Hey, my sister wrote this if anybody wants to read it. And about six months after it came out, I got an email from another author. She and her other author friend started their own publishing label. And she said, I read your novella. I really liked it. Can you turn it into a novel and can we publish it for you? So I said, sure. And that was it, it was my first book, Undercover Love, which came out in March of 2015. And it did reasonably well. So I immediately started working on a second one, and that's that's how I got started. I mean, it's I was working full time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, full time, and I was writing at night. Um, but my second book blew up. That was the one that hit number one on Amazon. So it was, you know, if you if you ignore all the years of writing and scribbling, and and took me over a year to write the novella in the first place. So it's it was an overnight success, but I didn't have anything in place. I didn't have a newsletter, I didn't have a website, I didn't have any way to capture those readers. So for a few days, I had two books in the top 10 on Amazon because those are the only two books I had. And there was no place else to send readers. So I lost almost all of them by the time. Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah.

Jami 13:11

But I learned a lot. That's why you're here today. And you have learned a lot because I was we were just talking. Lucy released a book yesterday, correct? Yes, yes, yes, her yesterday. What number book was that for you? 26. Number 26, and it launched to number four in the Amazon store, and today it's number three. So Lucy has learned a lot since. I really have.

unknown 13:36

Yeah.

Sara 13:37

And she does have a newsletter now to catch all those.

Jami 13:41

I do. A gigantic newsletter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Yes, those poor subscribers hear from me every single week. Yeah. Wow. It's a great newsletter. Yeah.

Sara 13:49

That's awesome. Well, so how has your definition of success changed? Because I imagine it's different now than it was when you first started out.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

It really is. And you know, when I growing up and even in the beginning of my career, I really wanted, I was going to measure everything by money. You know, I if I'm successful, I will make X amount of money. And what I came to realize is success to me is really being in control of my own time. So me not having to go punch a clock for someone else, me not having to be responsible for someone else's responsibilities, I guess. Um, I get to wake up and decide how I'm spending my hours every single day, which is magical and very freeing, but it's also super frustrating when you realize you're you might not be real great at that.

Jami 14:42

That is that is a wake-up call, isn't it? It is. Oh, I can't wait to do this full time. And then you get home and go, whoo, this is harder than I thought it was gonna be. Yes. Make myself actually do the things I need to do. Yeah. It really is.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

And I I really felt for with the pandemic, I really felt for people who were suddenly working from home because yeah, it always sounds like a dream and it's amazing, but the reality of making that transition is so difficult. And you were faced with a whole different set of distractions than you are in an actual workplace. Yeah. So it was, I I felt for everyone.

Jami 15:19

Sometimes parameters are not bad. Right. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Yeah, yeah.

Sara 15:23

Do you have certain boundaries that you set up now for to help you?

SPEAKER_02 15:28

I do. Um, I my office doesn't have a door, and it's the very the very front room in the house. So I'm also very easily distractable, and the cat will come in whenever she feels like it. And so I actually have to set up, I have to open the basement door all the way, and then I take um a poster board and slide it between the gap of the door and the wall so no one can come in. And then I work in sprints, so I have a timer, but it's a visual one, so it has like this red, you know, um indicator of how much time is left. So I set that up against the front door. So if Mr. Lucy comes upstairs and wants to have a chat with me, he peeks over the poster board and sees that my timer's on. So he can't talk to me. And I have noise-canceling headphones, which have saved me. So I I barricade my I literally barricade myself in my office and block out the world and blast some music and get to work. Yeah.

Jami 16:30

I remember, didn't you lock yourself in a closet?

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Yes, I have done that. I have done that more than once. Um, we have a big walk-in closet upstairs that's in a guest room, and I was on deadline, and we were having work done in our basement. And so there was construction people coming in and out, and I knew them. So they were constantly chatting. And yeah, so I was like, I can't do this. I can't, so I I ordered Panera, I got two meals and took a bag of food into the closet and locked myself in there and just started writing. And I was in there for a couple of hours and the door opens, and Mr. Lucy peeks in. He's like, Is this the beginning of a breakdown? He's like, No, this is the end of a deadline. Be gone.

Sara 17:20

Sometimes you just have to do that.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

You just have to take control of that environment. That's right. That's right.

Jami 17:26

What do you wish you'd known about writing in craft when you started?

SPEAKER_02 17:30

I think I wish that I would have realized that everything that goes into a story is an opportunity to deepen the story, to reinforce the character or the character arc, the conflict, you know, every description you write, every word you of dialogue you choose, that is an opportunity to tell the reader exactly who that person is and what's important to them. And I didn't realize that. So, you know, I would be like, oh, that sounds like a fun hobby for someone to have. I'll just do, you know, I'll just mash those two together when really I could have been creating much stronger arcs.

Jami 18:07

Okay, that's great. So, what do you do to deepen that story now? Like, are there things you do?

SPEAKER_02 18:13

I think it really comes in the beginning when I'm sitting down to plan a book. Um, I really try to dig into not just the main characters, but also the secondary characters and and think about, you know, their backgrounds. And I I took um Shonda Rhymes' masterclass on screenwriting, which didn't sound like it was gonna have much to do with book writing, but I really got a lot out of her section on how to deepen the characters. Um, I watched Scandal. Did you guys watch Scandal?

Jami 18:46

I watched some of it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

So she she was talking about um each of her characters like has a signature drink that tells you about something, something about them. So Olivia has really, really expensive taste in wine, and she has these wild, huge wine goblets that she drinks out of. And then there's Melly, the president's wife, who drinks like homemade hooch that she hides in a closet in a bottle, and she drinks straight out of the bottle. So it just tells you a bit about who they are or where they came from. Uh so I like, I really like trying to think of those kind of things and put sprinkle them through a story.

Jami 19:25

Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome.

Sara 19:27

Yeah, that is great. Um, what do you wish you'd known about marketing?

SPEAKER_02 19:32

All of it? Yeah, that's whatever marks is.

Sara 19:36

Yeah, none of us come trained as marketers rarely.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

That it's true. I mean, I I worked in a marketing agency for eight years when I got out of school. However, that was before Facebook and AMS ads. And, you know, so marketing changes so fast that I think really the thing that I waited a little bit too long to focus on was actually building my backlist. That ended up being more valuable to me because the more books you have, the more opportunities you have to market. And so you're not, you're not putting all your dollars into an ad to sell one or two or three books. You're putting dollars into an ad to sell 26 or or 10, you know. And I think for me, really the magic backlist number was eight. Eight books that have a similar feel. They don't have to be a series, but eight books that have a similar feel for you as an author. So readers can get into that and they know what to expect and they know they're looking forward to it. Um, so really I think growing the backlist was the most important thing. Um, marketing, it's just changing all the time. You know, we I launch about every three to four months, like four months mostly. And between launches, every time the Facebook ads dashboard is completely different and the audiences are different, and and it's you know, it's so rapidly evolving or devolving that it it's really hard to keep up with. So it's I like focusing on the thing that I can control, which is growing my backlist. Yeah.

Sara 21:16

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say, is that is something that you do have control over. And if you know you have, you know, six or seven or eight more books, then you have some stability that you can create, even if it's not a series. So do you yeah, do you like if you have a new release, what do you do to help people find your backlist?

SPEAKER_02 21:39

The I think a really big thing is so I do a couple of things with new launches. If I I love to write big shiny standalones. So I I plan to do two big shiny standalones a year. And in the back of those, I will do a regular epilogue, which is in the book. I will do a bonus epilogue, which um readers have Have to give me their email address in exchange for this big bonus scene. Um, and you know, they don't, they don't have to. It's and they can unsubscribe right away. But anyway, they they so they go onto my newsletter list and the I only have one autoresponder. So it's one email, it's a welcome, this is who I am, um, this is the kind of stories I like to write, I love tacos. And but in the back of every book, um, I'm also nudging them towards another one, uh, another specific book that is similar to the one that they just finished. So if they read that book and they signed up for the bonus epilogue and they're still interested, there I'm directing them to another book that I'm pretty sure they're gonna like. Um so the the back matter is really important. Bonus epilogues have been the way that I've grown my entire list. Um so both of those things have been really helpful. And then after that, you know, after that comes the Facebook marketing for launches.

Jami 23:02

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's important because um you were saying they don't have to be in a series, but they have to have similar fleet similar feels. So really while you're writing those books, um toning your voice and making sure that there's a feel to all the books that are a Lucy's four book. And um I I think that for new writers, that's so important to kind of realize that you don't have to, you don't have to write a bunch of series, but you do have to have the same sort of voice if it's humor, if it's drama, if it's if it's sexiness, whatever it is, it needs to kind of follow through in all the books. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Yeah, it does. Because I think that kind of consistency, readers feel they can rely on that. And and that's important, you know, when they're when they're looking for what they're gonna pick up to read next, they're like, I remember that the last book of hers I read was great. I'm gonna I'm gonna give this one a try.

Jami 23:58

And they're they're they're wanting that that dopamine hit, whatever it was, if whatever that feeling was, they want to continue to have that. I mean, it like for Sarah's books in the mysteries, they want those, you know, they want those little red herrings, they want to feel like they're part of the mystery. And you know, in romance, they want to feel however they want all the feels in romance, right? Yeah, exactly.

Sara 24:22

Well, I think that's really interesting too, that you plan on writing two standalones a year because you know, so much of the um like the the mantra is you know, write a series, write a series, write a series, which is really good. And I love a series, and but I think there is an advantage to having a standalone book because you can draw in people that maybe won't pick up book seven, eight, nine, or ten in a series, but they'll try something new, and then you can get them into your fault that way.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

Yeah, that and that's that's really what I found because I was writing in a in a small town series that I loved, but I was also getting bored with it, you know. I wanted to write something new and I didn't know how it would go because when I when I was doing it, everybody's like, you can't you have to write a series. That's the only way that you can make money. And and I was like, but I don't want to. And it wasn't until I wrote my first standalone that we really started to see growth. Um, because uh we had left uh I had the I was with the original publisher for five books, so it was um two standalones and then a trilogy. And once the third one was done, I was like, I I think I asked Mr. Lucy, I was like, How do you feel about becoming my publisher? I think we can do this. And I made a huge misstep. I was I was going to write this romantic suspense, which I hadn't really written before, and I branded it differently, and I just made all of these not right decisions, and my readers were like, What? Uh so when I realized, and it turned into a duet with a cliffhanger in the middle. So I just made all of the wrong choices at that point, and I wrote a standalone after that. I was like, I just need something new. And that standalone was when we really started to see readers coming back. And which one was that? What's that?

Jami 26:20

Which one was that? Mr. Mr.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Fixer Upper.

Jami 26:23

Oh, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

And I I loved that book, and it was I just had so much fun writing it because it was different and because it was something that I was excited about. Um, I felt a little bit less pressure because I had failed spectacularly on the duet. So I was like, well, I guess we'll see how this goes. And and that's when we really started to see readers coming back to us. And that was when I also had a newsletter and I had uh Facebook presence and things like that. So I was stickier.

Sara 26:55

Yeah, you were set up and ready.

Jami 26:56

Yeah, yeah. So what assumptions did you make at the beginning of your writing career and did looking back, did they turn out to be right or wrong?

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Um I assumed that it writing was going to be easy. And we all laughed. And and guess what? That was wrong. But I also so I assumed it was gonna be easy, and then when I realized it wasn't easy, I made the assumption that it should be easy. Yes. Because I, you know, we all know authors who can write very quickly, who can turn out a story in two weeks, who can publish a book a month. And I thought that that is that. There was something wrong with you. Yes, exactly. I thought that was saying something about my own talent. And it took me a long time to realize that uh writing is hard and it's okay that it's hard. And sometimes it's the hard that makes it really good. I had I had a friend who was into photography and she was great at it, but it was hard, and she quit because it was hard. She she thought because it was hard that she wasn't any good at it. And that always made me so sad for her because you know, art is hard.

Jami 28:05

It is, and I think the I I think the assumption for a lot of people is okay, it's hard now, but it'll get easier. But I think it gets harder the longer because you know more. You're you're a little more, you know, you want you expect a little more from yourself. And um so for me, it gets a little harder, but yeah. Yeah, I think that is exactly what you're like. It just means that's the process.

Sara 28:29

Wow, yeah, that's really yeah, that's a good one. I think that's something that we all struggle with. So yeah. So you've already touched on these a little bit, but um, have you ever made a mistake that turned out to be a good thing? Touched on mistakes a little bit, but have you taught do you have anything that you were like, that was not what I thought, but it turned out okay?

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Yeah, I think most of my mistakes I learn enough from that it it turns out to have been important to make them. Um The Sinner and Saint duet. I still love the stories, but it's it's just too off-tone from the rest of my catalog that they still don't sell very well. Um, but I, you know, I learned so much from making all of those mistakes in one project that it really helped me um focus on my own strengths and focus on figuring out how to deliver something to readers that I was really excited about.

Jami 29:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

So that that helps.

Jami 29:28

Well, what about the opposite? Have you ever thought this is a home run? Like this is gonna be it, and then it turned out to not do as well as you thought.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

I I think um the I I went into the center in Saint Duet thinking that it was gonna be uh I thought people were gonna love it. I thought I thought readers were gonna eat it up because it was a bodyguard um with a really alpha hero. And but it spans five years of the relationship, which I love. I love when a cup when it's a second chance romance and everything. A lot of a lot apparently a lot of readers don't like that. So that whole project was really like a stripping away of false assumptions and a realization of I have no control over the outcome of these books. Uh, you know, I can write the best book that I can, but eventually I have to let it go and put it out into the world, and I have no control at that point.

SPEAKER_06 30:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

So that's that has been a big lesson as well. Um but yeah, there's there have definitely been plenty of things. I I also I used to be, I used to really like to say yes to people. So I ended up in some group projects like um anthologies and things like that that turned out to be just absolutely not what I should have been doing with my time. Uh so those kind of things really helped me remember that no is a complete sentence and it's okay to say it, you know?

Jami 31:09

Like exactly. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that's great. I think that's yeah.

Sara 31:14

Yeah. I we just talked to uh Joanna Penn and she was talking about how the things that she messed up earlier that she learned from helped her create like boundaries that things she says no to now, and I think that you know that's something that I'm learning that I'm not very good at saying no. So how do you decide like, oh, this is a project I want to do, and this isn't, or I would like to do this, but I can't do it right now. How do you decide? What are you saying no to?

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Well, right now I just have really hard and fast rules of I don't do group projects anymore of any kind. So no anthologies, no box sets, no, um, because I it takes me, it takes all of my energy and focus to write my own books. So it always I love to see the romance community, like, you know, with the fires in Australia, how they put together this massive anthology to raise money. I couldn't do that. And they were like, hey, can you uh author A, can you write a 7,000-word story and have it to us in two weeks? And everybody's like, Yeah, sure, no problem. And then they did it. I can't do that. I also can't write short either. But so I um I just have rules where like I don't do newsletter swaps either because um my newsletter is it's very long. It's very, very me. So the only books that ever go in that newsletter are ones that I have read and that I think my readers will love. And, you know, I need to keep it that way because otherwise, if I were to keep sharing things that I haven't read that I haven't loved, um, I think it would lose its uh power. You know, I I think people would they would glaze over, they might not see it because, well, this is just another PR thing or whatever. So yeah, I just have hard and fast rules of I don't do any of these. And then when somebody asks, I can just say, I'm sorry, I don't do this. So it's not, it's not a personal thing, it's just I don't do these.

Jami 33:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Yeah.

Jami 33:15

And and I think you've you've like with your newsletter, you've just cultivated the I mean, over time, you've cultivated this environment and this thing that you want, and that's what it is. And and you make no apologies for that. And I think that's fine. I mean, I I think that's awesome. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Yeah, one of the one of the cool things about the newsletter came from the pandemic. Uh, from the very beginning, I'm very sensitive. I'm very uh high input, very empathetic. So me seeing all the news all the time was devastating. So I would have to go out digging for good news, you know. Like I love stories of neighbors helping neighbors and and good community stories. And those were those were stories that I wasn't seeing. I had to go find them. So I started a good news section in my newsletter, and I it's the most popular part of it. Um and I look forward to it. I like I cry every week when I'm rereading the newsletter just because the the stories are so wholesome. And you know, readers send me stuff now, and my my Lucy team sends me stuff so we can we just we have a spreadsheet of like these are the good news stories we're putting in in this. And you know, if we have a if the country or the world has a really bad week, we're gonna do double the number of good news stories.

Jami 34:39

Right, right. And I think just to piggyback on top of that, let's talk about your your group real quick. Um, your Lucy Score um group, and tell me the name again because like all of a sudden it left me. Bras. Uh yeah, Lucy Scores Binge Readers Anonymous. Yes, Lucy Scores Bras. Um you've really just grown that and cultivated that, and it's just such a great place and a happy place. And you don't really restrict what's posted or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

You just kind of let your readers yeah, we I I got really lucky with that group. I don't know if I can take credit for it. Yeah. Um, I when I started, I it was funny when I was when I was first writing, I didn't know any other authors at all. So I didn't have friends that I could ask questions of. And um I met Claire Kingsley. Uh, she was one of my first author friends, and she was like, Hey, you should do a reader group on Facebook. I'm like, what's a reader group? She's like, Well, here, look at mine. This is what we do. I was like, Oh, okay. I'm like, what do I do in a reader group? So I just I started it, and through that I met um some amazing readers, and they really helped set the tone of the group. Um, it's we don't have post approval on, uh, which is highly unusual, I guess. But it's also it's a really respectful group. So we don't, um, there's no man candy, there's no like mean people of Walmart posts or things like that. It's, you know, it's it's uh it's just a really happy vibe. Um, we're all about five-star book recommendations. And I love, you know, I love when readers are talking about other authors that they enjoy. Um, and every month uh we do tell me a story, which a guest author will come in and on the first night they will post a series of polls, and readers get to vote on the the um criteria like uh the hero's name, uh, what's the setting? What time of year does this story happen? What trope do you want this? And so at the end, the um at the end of the polls, the that author has to go and they have 24 hours to write a story with that with that criteria. And it sounds terrifying. And we bras, we totally treat it like we're going to battle. We're like, we're gonna break you, we're gonna, yeah, we're gonna take you down. Because we also have a wild card section, so you can just suggest the zaniest, most ridiculous thing. But for the author, it ends up being the most freeing uh writing exercise because it's 24 hours, it's gonna be crap. The readers don't care if it's gonna be crap, they're just excited, and it just ends up being like such a fun little exercise.

SPEAKER_06 37:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

That you know, we we really get into it and it's it's a blast. So yeah, I'm I love bras. They're they're amazing. They're we didn't even call them bras for a long time because I didn't really notice the um initialism there. Or the acronym wait, which one is it? Acronym. Acronym. Yeah, dang, I always get that wrong. Um, I didn't notice it at first, and somebody's like, We're bras, welcome to bras. So when new people join the group, they're the training bras. It's it's we have we have men in there. Um you know I that's the probably the fastest growing demographic of new romance readers, especially since the pandemic hit. Yeah. So it's you know, it's awesome. It's really fun.

Jami 38:12

It is awesome. I really um I I talked to you about your group, but um I really try to pattern my group after that. Like we don't do main candy, we don't do, but and and it it's still growing, but it always makes me so happy when one of my readers, one of the readers is a posts something and then the other readers comment and say everything. And I'm just like, oh, that's how Lucy's group is because it is such a happy place, and it's a place where readers can go and kind of be supported. And I really love that about yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

Thank you. Yeah, it's it's awesome. It's it's romance readers are the best people in the world, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sara 38:50

And places like that are rare on the internet. So if you can create a place like that, people will be interested in being there.

Jami 38:57

Happy and safe, yeah.

Sara 38:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, we also wanted to ask you some questions about working with your spouse because you mentioned Mr. Lucy and how you asked him if he would become your publisher. So can you tell us how um how that's gone and if somebody is interested in some tips? Do you have any tips for transitioning to that or working with the stuff?

SPEAKER_02 39:19

What does he do?

Jami 39:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

Yeah. I mean so I mean, you guys are obviously super familiar with writing and publishing. So I write the books and I do the social media. He does everything else. Um so he handles the accounting, he handles the payroll, he handles the formatting of the manuscript. Um, until very recently, he was the one who was uh dealing directly with the cover designers. Um, he runs my ARC team. He does everything. Uh so he, you know, he if there's a quality issue from KDP, he takes care of that. Uh he takes care of all the piracy stuff. Um everything. And it was, you know, we grew. So we've been working together since 2018, is when he came on board uh to to take over the publishing side of things. So we've both added a lot to our plates since then. And uh separate offices are important and um a clear delineation of responsibilities is also really important. And we still struggle with that occasionally because every once in a while I'll do something online that he's like, why did you do that?

unknown 40:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Or or he'll do something like, I won't like the categories that he picks for for a new release. Yeah. Those publishers, man, they just it's definitely, and it's funny because we are both really invested in this. Um, but there's a lot of pressure on me because I'm the one who's writing the books. Uh so the bigger our team has gotten, it feels it's more and more pressure that I put on myself uh to do the best I can. And and um I'm also we have very different personality types, which is why we each gravitate towards different kinds of work. But he has to deal with me when I'm uh in the phase where I hate this book, but it's not working. I can't, I'm not a writer. I need to work on my resume so I can get a job. You know, he has to deal with that part, or he also has to deal with um, you know, I don't read my own reviews, but he he sees almost all of them and you know, he really takes it to heart when when we get the mean ones. And so so it's uh it's an ever-evolving balance between your personal life and your work life. Yeah. So we don't have kids, but I I can imagine how it feels like to be a parent when you and your spouse sit down at the end of the day, and the only thing you can talk about are your children. Because when Tim and I sit down at the end of the day, we pretty much only talk about work. So it's, you know, we still have not found the right balance of maintaining a personal life and a professional life because we both work from home. So there's no boundaries, you know.

Jami 42:23

It's it's it's hard to turn it off. Well, I mean, just as an example that my husband he for his company, you know, he has never, ever in the 20-something years he's worked for them done anything after, say, 5 30 in the afternoon. Never. Since he's been home this year, I cannot tell you the number of times he's gone and gotten on a call after 5 30. He's gotten on an email. I mean, he's had to return emails after I mean, it's like when you're at home, they're really it's very hard to have boundaries and your computer is in the next room. It's just super hard. And uh when it's just the two of you, I can, you know, their you know, children would add some distraction. But yeah, I can see that. That would be really, really tough.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

It's it's so true. But I mean, on the other hand, it's it's really nice to be able to talk to him and he knows exactly what I'm talking about. So, you know, I I'm not some some spouse coming home from the office complaining about TPS reports or or Marge from accounting, you know, he knows exactly what I'm talking about. We and so we have a really deep understanding of the work that each other is doing. Which is great. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and you speak to the other thing. Yeah, we just need to find that uh personal life, I think.

Jami 43:44

So if anybody has any tips, let me know. Ever evolving. Well, you were talking about a team. So at what point did you build out your team? And what are the what do the team members do?

SPEAKER_02 43:56

So it started, it actually started with bras. Um Um, I the group was growing and I was it takes me longer and longer to write books these days. So I needed to free up a little bit more of my time. So I reached out to two readers um in my group that had been there from the beginning that just had just the right vibe. You know, they're very loving people, they're very available, they're they're huge fans of uh the romance genre. They're they're outgoing, they're amazing. So Joyce and Tammy love you guys. So I asked them to be my admins for the group, and they were both so funny. I messaged them and they both were like, mm, no. So that was one of those things. I was like, this is gonna be a home run. They're gonna be like, yeah, that would be great. We're in the group all the time anyway. And they're like, mm, maybe not no. That that sounds like a lot of work. I'm like, I promise you guys, it wouldn't be, I just need somebody to be in there every once in a while when I'm not around, you know. And they're like, oh, okay, all right, we'll do this. So I mean, they really are the heart and soul of the group. So um, they both work full-time. Joyce evolved into being my uh personal assistant, so I pay her. Tammy has a secret spy government job. Um, so she she refuses to accept any money from me. So she volunteers her time with me. Um, so it started with them, and then uh Tim's BFF from I don't know, hundred, I they've known each other for a very long time. Um, Rick, he brought Rick on to be marketing guy, Rick. Uh, because as you guys know, if you're gonna run Facebook ads, they require constant babysitting. Um, so Rick has a full-time job, but he does our marketing on the side. And so he uh right now he's really busy uh curating those Facebook ads and monitoring them and you know building new ones and uh that that took a lot of that helped us grow a lot faster because Tim and I both had so much on our plates that we couldn't properly babysit the ads. Right. And then after Rick, we just at the beginning of this year, we just brought my brother on full time as a contractor. He uh he was doing all my audio production and which was took a lot off of me. And but we just Tim and I kept finding these places where things were falling through the cracks because nobody that wasn't on anybody's plate. And we needed to put it on somebody's plate. So uh we talked my brother into leaving his cushy job that he had been at since he graduated from college. Oh my god. Yeah, so it actually uh with the pandemic, it helped because Dan was started working from home. And he's one of the people, he's like me, working from home, it's exactly what you've been waiting for your entire life. Right. You know, start when you want, wear your pajamas, hey, take a break at 10, go ride your Peloton, you know. That's so once he got into that, then we brought the we brought the topic up to him again. And he was like, okay, let's do this. So that's that's my that's my team.

Jami 47:19

So he's doing all your audio?

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Is he is that it or is he doing he's doing he's doing a lot. Um, I actually don't know how to really encapsulate everything that he's doing because uh I kind of call him like a communications officer. So he's now communicating with all of our designers, so cover designers, teaser designers, things like that. So he's spearheading all of those projects. Um this launch was amazing because I I was able to get all of the assets that I like. I have a dream list of assets for a launch. And uh, we weren't doing anything for a lot of my books until very recently. So every time we'd go to put a title on sale, I would go back and look and be like, oh, look at that. We have zero teasers, I don't have any ad copy, I have I have nothing for this book. So I would have to go back to the book and start. Pull it out, yeah. And I hate doing that, especially because I would always be in the middle of a big writing project. Another book. Yeah. Yeah. So Dan's been helping with procedures and um setting up new processes for us. Um so we are this launch was really, really smooth. Um, we we had everything that we needed, which was great. So he's he's also starting to take over some of the piracy stuff, which could also be a full-time job. It's terrible. Um uh and other things. Like he's helping me with uh I use Smarter Q to schedule a lot of my social media stuff for my author page and and some other stuff. So he has been helping build up some content there, uh, which has been very helpful. Uh it frees up a lot of my time to just focus on what I need to be doing.

Jami 49:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaking of power sleep, my new book on Monday, uh, on the day that it released, I got some I do mention, but I do the lowest thing. I got a little mention that my my new book was on a pirate side. Day one. Wow. I know, yeah. Congratulations. You want to go to your art team and go, um, can I talk to you guys? Big deal. So yeah. We always say that. Yes, it's it is crazy though. I mean, and there's just I mean I don't have time to deal with that. So having someone to do that would be fantastic, but yeah, I mean that's just that is a full-time job in and of itself. So I get that. Well, so speaking of 2020, this has been quite a year, and but I noticed uh because we know each other, we're in a group together. I mean, I s I I I see a lot of what Lisi says and does, but um you've really I think even before 2020, really started kind of working on your mindset and um just exercise and meditation and stuff like that just to kind of disaster proof yourself and your business. And I can you just talk about that a little bit? I I know you feel like you haven't really done that, but I've seen I've just seen a lot of things that have inspired me. Um so it'd be great if you just talked about that.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

Sure. Um, I actually one of the best things I did was I took a class from Becca Syme called Write Better Faster. And yeah. So technically I'm still not writing any faster, but you understand yourself better, right? I do, I do. And um so in this class, for people who haven't taken it, uh it's uh personality driven. So you take some assessments and and you you learn a lot of reasons why you do certain things. So my in this one assessment that I took, my number one skill or trait was input. So I am constantly looking for content. I am constant, you know, I'm the person where if I have that red notification, I need to click it. I have to, I need to see what's going on in the world. I'm curious about what other authors are doing, I am curious about news headlines. And as you can imagine, that is really not helpful for when it comes to sitting down and writing a book.

unknown 51:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

Uh, if I'm constantly on my phone returning texts or reading stories, and uh when the pandemic started, I I was following the news earlier, I think. I realized earlier than some that it was going to be a huge global issue. And so that's when my panic started about it. Uh, it was before it was even, it was before anybody knew that it was in the US when I was already like, okay, this this could be bad. I had no idea how bad it was going to be.

Jami 52:17

I just I was I'm with you. I did too. I did it early.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

Yeah. So and I so I spiraled. I had my downward spiral of doob and gloom, and uh, but I processed it pretty fast. And at that point, I realized that if I was going to continue to write lovely romantic comedy books, I had to shut out as much negativity as possible. I had to really start reinforcing boundaries. And I had to even social media, social media became a really difficult place for me to be. And I think that was true for so many people. Um, you know, with with everything that's happened in the last 12 months for the the whole world, it it has been tough. And if you are naturally more sensitive or more empathetic, it was even tougher on you. So I uh really had to sit down and think about what was good for me. And I got way more consistent with my exercise, I got way more consistent with meditation. Um, I do both almost every single day, and it's usually the first thing I do just to set the tone for the day. Uh, I think I read I read a lot of nonfiction as well. So just kind of trying to work on certain areas of my life. The um miracle morning, I think it's called, was really helpful. Now, I'm I'm not a morning person, so I'm never gonna get up at 5 a.m. and do all these things. But the idea of how you start to the day is how you're setting the tone for the rest of the day really resonated because I'm very scattered and disorganized naturally. So if I were to get up and the first thing I would do is grab my phone and go through my messages and hop on social media. And that was it. That was the spy, that was the input. And one rabbit hole led to the next, and I was not being productive and I was getting more and more upset with the negativity and the, you know, the the reality of the world that we were living in. And I had to stop. So I actually I went off of social media just for a couple of days, um, a few times, just to hit a hard reset for my mind. And I just, you know, your diet isn't just what you eat, it is everything that you consume. So it's the things that you're reading, it's the people you're communicating with, it's, you know, the the books, uh, everything, the TV you're watching. So um, my TV habits changed drastically. I stopped watching a lot of shows that Mr. Lucy likes darker shows than I do, and that was our quality time. And I'm like, I finally was like, I can't do this anymore. I can't watch these shows. You continue them on your own. I'm going to go someplace else and watch happy things. And, you know, that's it's every day I have to make the conscious choice to fuel myself with a healthy, positive everything, basically. Um, and it's, you know, I'm not perfect. I'm still gonna eat like crap for a couple of days. I'm still gonna miss some workouts and some meditations, and I'm still gonna go down a rabbit hole on YouTube, of course. But I, you know, I'm constantly bringing myself back and reminding myself that I need to start my days with good intentions and I need to stick to them as closely as possible.

Jami 55:44

Well, I mean, I can see that you've done that. I mean, I know you feel like you don't do it perfectly, but I can see a change in your tone, a change and everything. And and one thing people don't maybe don't know about Lucy is that she is honestly one of the kindest people you will ever meet. I mean, she is genuinely supportive, she really wants other people to do well, and that just really comes across even more now, I think, than it did before. Yeah, thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. It's it's really inspiring. Yeah.

Sara 56:13

So yeah, and it's always nice to have it's another one of the your positive stories, you know, like you were talking about how people want the good stories. That's you have to kind of focus on that. So yay.

SPEAKER_02 56:28

Yeah, really. Yeah, and there, you know, there really is a ton of wonderful, beautiful things out there in the world. And you know, I know even when uh things go crazy in Romance Landia, and you know, it seems terrifying and upsetting. And it's really like there are way more amazing, wonderful friends out there. There are there are more good people out there than bad. It's you know, that's just the way life is. It's just we hear about the bad stuff because that's kind of and then you have what you're gonna focus on.

Jami 57:06

Yeah, good or the bad. Yeah.

Sara 57:07

Yeah. Well, what's the best thing you've done to set yourself up for success? You think? That's a big question, I know.

SPEAKER_02 57:16

Uh-uh. Uh staying in my own lane. Yes. I'm very good at that. Yeah, you are. I still struggle with it a lot because I'm so curious about what other people are doing. I like to try things on for size. I heard about an author who was writing 10,000 words a day. I'm like, why shouldn't why can't I do that? I'll go do that. That was that was ugly. Uh so staying in my own lane really has helped me kind of release the need to uh try everything on. You know, I I understand myself a lot better. I understand my writing process a lot better. And, you know, that's always evolving, but knowing where my strengths lie, that helps me utilize them better rather than diluting them and trying to take on all these other tasks and things like that. So staying in my own lane and doing what works for me and not automatically assuming that because someone else said that this is the way it works and this is how you have to do it, I I understand that I can like take a step back, question the premise and and decide, you know, decide for myself. So that that's really helped. And you know, and if anybody is out there telling you the only way you can make it in this career is to do this, there it's not true. It's not. And just because it just because something works for someone else who is writing, you know, in your genre, that doesn't mean that it's gonna work for you. It doesn't mean that it has to work for you.

Jami 58:47

Yeah, you can do it a different way, yeah. It just looks different, yeah. And the results are different for a while, you know. You have to build up to yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's great. That's great. It's been so great to have you here. Can you tell people where they can find you and your books? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

Um, I have my website is LucyScore.com and you can find me all over Amazon. All right.

Sara 59:17

We will have all those links at wish I'd known then podcast.com, and we just had a great time talking to you. Thanks for being here, and we'll see everybody next week.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

Thank you for having me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:29

Thanks for listening to the Wish I'd Known Then podcast. We hope this episode inspired you, empowered you, and made you laugh a little bit too. If you loved it, tell your friends about it. And if you feel so inclined, leave us a review. We look forward to being with you again next week.