Getting your Books into Libraries with Erin Wright

Episode 180 / Do you want to reach library readers? Erin Wright is here to help us understand how libraries buy books (ebooks, audio and print), what formats libraries prefer, and how to let libraries know about our books. 

Author website: https://erinwright.net/authors

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome

Indie Author Success and Library Strategies

SPEAKER_00 0:06

to the Wish I'd Know Men podcast, where we focus on how authors found success, looking at strategies that have taken them to the top of the bestseller charts, as well as what they've learned from their mistakes. Because being an indie author is more than knowing the latest marketing trend. It's about being innovative and creative and learning from your mistakes.

Jami 0:25

Welcome to the Wish I'd Know Them podcast. I'm Sarah Rosette. And I'm Jamie Albright. And this week on the show we have Erin Wright. Yes, and we have her again, but it's not a rerun. It's a new, a new podcast. We're going to talk about libraries, or we talked about libraries with her and how to get in and the just kind of demystifying the process a little bit because it is a little confusing.

Sara 0:52

Right. It's very different from just selling to readers directly or through a store. There's uh she talks about the ways to get into libraries and um how to let libraries know how to get your ebooks, audiobooks, and print books into libraries, what what formats libraries like, and how to let libraries know about you and your books, because that's kind of the discovery again. That seems to be the the issue. A lot of that's what we're uh trying to all figure out is discovery.

Jami 1:23

So I think I'm gonna have discoverability tattooed on my behind. That's what I'm thinking. That doesn't seem like a very good place to do it, does it? If I want to be discovered.

Sara 1:37

No, maybe, maybe somewhere else. Maybe somewhere else. Dang it. It's kind of a metaphor for our problems for discoverability.

SPEAKER_05 1:47

So true, so true.

Sara 1:49

Oh, anyway, what's been going on with you? Um, not a lot. I've been getting the final touches on the Kickstarter and I've had a thought. I've been researching it. So I want to know if anybody else has done this, has anybody used Shopify to fulfill their Kickstarter? Because I'm going, I have a store, I have the ability to do all that. So I'm researching it and I think it can be done. I'm just having a hard time finding details on how to do it. Not that I need to know it right now, but I do want to know if it's a possibility.

Jami 2:20

So yeah, that sounds interesting.

Sara 2:22

Yeah. So then that way, because like last time I had to put everything in uh Kickstarter, and then I put everything in again into book uh backer kit. And then I was thinking this time, if I'm gonna put everything on my website, then I gotta upload it all to my website, you know, each product. So I was thinking maybe I could just do it all on Shopify, and that would simplify things. So if you've done that, um, let me know. Uh you could post in the group or get in touch with us, you know, send me an email or something, and uh we can dig into that. So been working on that. And my other bit of news I was gonna try and remember to talk about is I watched the extraordinary attorney woo. I've started watching that. Have you seen it? Oh, yeah. No, but I've heard about it. Yeah, so uh I think it was Inez who mentioned it and recommended it. So I started watching that and I really am liking it. I've never watched like the the K dramas, but I think I'm about to go down a big deep rabbit hole.

Jami 3:25

Yeah, you know, there's some days that I'm like, oh yeah, give me some good subtitles. And then there are other days I'm like, I want to scroll my phone and listen to this TV show or movie.

Sara 3:37

Sometimes I'm like, ah, I just can't do that today. I don't want to work that hard. I need to find a show in English. Yeah, I know, me too.

Jami 3:44

Me too. Yeah, so anyway, well, um what about you? What's going on for you? Not much, not much, just still, you know, plugging along, trying to write a little bit every day. And um yeah, that's it. I don't really have a whole lot of news. We just recorded the last intro a few days ago, so I'm pretty boring. So um I uh don't really have much. So that's we can get on with uh the show and Erin, because she's got some amazing information.

Sara 4:18

Okay, well, we will do that. Here is Erin. Great. Well, today we are really happy to have Erin Wright with us for the second time.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Welcome back, Erin. Thank you.

Sara 4:30

We had so much to talk about last time. We've asked Erin to come back and talk about libraries and a little bit about her marketing that she's doing for her books. So let me read her bio and then we will get into the questions. Erin Wright is a full-time contemporary Western romance author, but unless you're a fan of sexy cowboys, you've probably heard of her instead because of her work in Why for the Wind Facebook group. She conned Susie O'Connell, close writing friend and fellow cowboy romance author, into co-founding the Facebook group back in March of 2019 and has been avoiding writing books by posting in the group ever since.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Which is great. And there's so much, there's so much truth in that.

Jami 5:11

Well, Erin, tell us what's the most important lesson you've learned recently.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Oh wow. Um I'm glad you're there. Y'all just like to start out with the easy stuff, don't you?

Jami 5:25

Yeah, we just knocked you right out of the park right there.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

So uh, you know, it's really funny because the very recently within the last within the last week, I have been starting to realize that um, again, I I come to this realization regularly and then I sort of forget because apparently I have memory issues, but um, that I really need to start prioritizing writing because uh it's it is very easy for me to put off writing and post in groups or teach classes or be on podcasts. And and I love all of it, like you know, um I love helping people, I love having that light bulb moment. Um, and so, but but at the same time, like I really do need to write my own books. I have not released a book since April of 2021, um, which is definitely not a release schedule that I recommend to anybody. Um and so at least part of it for me is um Megan actually said this the other day uh on on her podcast, um, but it's the tyranny of the urgent where something is on fire and so I have to go put that thing out. Yeah. Um my writing isn't on fire and thus it it literally and figuratively, if you're like me. Right, yeah.

unknown 6:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

So so I'm I'm trying to reset um again of and I've tried this before. Like I said, I I have a hard time sticking with it because there is that that element of urgency, but I genuinely just need to be writing every morning before I get into other things. And then I at least have some sort of progress towards the book, even if it's not you know as much as I thought that I wanted to get done, because it never is. Um, at least it's something. And if I had been writing something every day for the last two and a half years, I would have at least a couple books out.

Sara 7:31

Yeah, you'd at least have a book or two, yeah. That's so hard though, because it's so easy to put that on the back burner because you've got all this other stuff that must be done this week or today. Exactly.

Jami 7:43

Like we were talking about just before we got on. I mean, you're you're what you're a helper and um I am too. And that's more fun sometimes than writing a book. Uh huh. Yeah. It's it's more, it's more satisfying because I'm also number one activator. So if I sit down with a client and we go through a consultation and we see those light bulb moments, then I'm like, I get off the call thinking I've accomplished something. And the book writing, I don't see, I don't accomplish anything until I've finished the book.

unknown 8:19

Yeah.

Jami 8:19

In my warped thinking. And so it's very hard.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Um, absolutely. Um, yeah, so so a number two helper in the Enneagram profile. Um, if anybody wasn't sure what that's referring to, but yeah, I I'm number one. Yeah. Yeah, it's uh I'm a very strong um uh helper, the the number two in the Enneagram because I just that's what makes my heart happy. Um since I was a little kid, like I wanted to be a teacher. Like I would line up my dolls and I would teach my dolls and you know that sort of thing, right? Um, and and so I actually was a teacher there um for uh for a bit. Um and I thought when I left the teaching world that I was just going to be an author, um, and I didn't think that I was going to be getting back into teaching. And then now I've sort of married the two together. Um, but one of the parts of those partnerships is is um definitely large and in control, and the other half is kind of fall under the wayside at points, and so yeah. Uh that's something I'm just working on.

Jami 9:25

Yeah, that's a great lesson.

Sara 9:28

Yeah, I think that's a lot of people be able to identify with that, definitely. So well, has your business model changed recently? Do you have do you still have the same business model you started out with? Have things shifted? Um, you mean in terms of teaching people or in terms of writing? Just your writing, like how because I think a lot of people get into writing like they're going to be a writer all the time, like that's going to be their full-time job. And then sometimes their mindset shifts and they do different things.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

So yeah. So um I obviously am not putting out books fast enough. Um, but I am lucky in the regard that I have a fairly diverse catalog. Um where I mean, there the the topics of the books are are it's fiction, it's all in one world, Long Valley, they're um all Western romances, they're very focused in that way. Um, but I have a lot of different formats, right? So I I have my ebooks and then I have my print books, and then I have my audiobooks, and I have translations. Um, so at least I have diversity in that regard. And then obviously, of course, I'm you know on all the different platforms, of course. Um, so that really helps, but uh, but I've also realized that um not everyone is driven to teach, and not everyone is good at teaching. And that is a skill that I that I possess. Um I just naturally am good at teaching. Um and so I can really help people in that regard. So then I've started um using the information that I get from the writing world um to teach and help other people. And like I said, that's been you know taking over sometimes um a lot of times. But um I have been able to make a really big difference in the in the author community. I feel like maybe I'm deleting myself, you know. There's always that no, I think that's probably the truth. But you know, by by running white or helping lead the the wide movement and and letting people realize that this is a valid strategy to publish and be successful on my platforms. Um I've been able to make a difference in that regard, and that that means a lot to me. Um so, but I have started, I at first I was just doing the Wide for the One Facebook group, and then um I started doing one-on-one consultations, and then uh I've now added on classes because there's just not enough uh hours in the day for me to teach everybody. Right um right now, if you went to my consultation calendar, I believe the next opening is either in December or January. Um, and that's and and I get people all the time who are like, I'm begging you, just like put me in and I will pay you. And I'm just like, there is really just only one of me. You have no idea how hard this is for the number two helper over here to be like, I can't help you right now, but I I can't. There's science is letting me down. There's no duplication machine. So, so I've I guess I've been diversifying in terms of the teaching part of things of by trying to teach these classes. Maybe I can help more people all at the same time rather than doing one on bottom.

Jami 13:12

That's wise. That's just I think that's a wise choice for you. Um especially given your um strengths and uh and talents, you know. I I think I think that's great that you're doing that. Um tell me how do you view mistakes and how do you recover when things go wrong?

SPEAKER_02 13:37

How do I view mistakes? Um honestly uh I mean I always get frustrated, you know. I don't know anybody who's like, I made a mistake today. This is awesome. Um but I also don't tend to um I don't I don't honestly get that depressed or like driven down by it um because I'm naturally a very optimistic, positive kind of a person. And so I'm like, well, you know, I mean that sucked. That's that wasn't fun, but um I did learn XYZ from it. So I guess, you know, there was that. Um and then I just sort of move forward. I don't know. I don't I don't get sucked down into negativity very easily.

Jami 14:30

You know, Inez

Navigating Failure and Resilience in Libraries

Jami 14:31

Johnson will tell you that she feels fast, like she is one of those people that just like now I have the data, and I can we were talking about this at lunch at IncertCon, and I was like, I was just listening to I was listening to her and said, I hear the words you're saying, they just don't make sense in my head. And she was like, What do you do? And I was like, Oh, well, there's a period of self-loathing that could, you know, that I have to work through, and it can last a while. And she just looked at me like I was nuts. She was like, Why do you worry about it? And I'm like, because I fail and I have a bad view of failing. I know that, but yeah, so most of us are like me, I think. Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I feel like I'm more kind of in the middle, you know. I don't go through long phases of self-loathing, but I am also not like the best thing ever. I just failed. But I'm like, all right, you know, hey, I I learned something from that. Don't do that again.

Sara 15:35

Um, there's there is not yeah, yeah, that's really important when you can kind of reframe it, even if you start out, I'm more like Jamie, start out and like, oh, I made a mistake. But if we can reframe it in our minds, we go, okay, we've learned something, so it's a good thing. It takes a while though to get to that point.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

You know, it's really interesting because um um for anybody who's a Clifton Strengths um super fan, uh like I am in terms of stuff, yeah. Um, I'm number four, positivity. So I'm naturally hardwired to look at the positive things and be like, okay, well, you know, I mean that kind of sucks, but we'll we'll we'll go forward and um and I I always find it interesting to talk to people who don't have um a natural inclination to just bounce back um because you genuinely have to fight for that. And and for me, I'm I will literally say, Okay, so this evening, like I'm kind of in a bad mood. By morning, by the time I wake up, I'll be fine again. And I will be like I'll wake up the next morning and it's like a reset button. And now I'm just like back to being fine again. That's right. But I don't, it's not like I'm like, oh, I've worked so hard to to make this happen. It's literally just baked into my personality. So I don't feel like I um I I have not had to strive to make that happen. And I really have a lot of um respect for people who are not naturally optimistic and still pull themselves back from bad things happening because that's genuinely very difficult. It would so it would be like me learning another language, which I absolutely suck at. I cannot speak other languages. I've tried, I can't even tell you how many other languages I tried to learn. I it does not make sense to my brain. English, I only speak it half the time anyway, it's my native tongue. So, you know, there's things that you're just naturally good at and there's things that you're just naturally not.

Sara 17:39

And so yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense too. So well, this is a weird transition. I can't figure out how to transition it from that into libraries, but we're going to go that way because we wanted to have you back to talk about libraries. So um tell us a little bit about your background working with libraries and um kind of how what you've done with libraries in in your in the past.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Well, I will help you make that transition more smoothly, more smooth. Um, I got fired from the only time I've ever been fired in my life. I I was a library director for 18 months and I got fired. Um, well, there you go. And that like put me into a funk that lasted more than one night, I promise. Um and uh because it just made me question my self-worth of like, what happened? Like, I am not somebody who gets fired, right? I'm an overachiever and it just really made me question like there's something wrong with me as a human being. Like I'm screwed up. And and I mean, there was a lot of it was just um being in a small town. Um and uh they hired me. I was an outsider, uh, they told me they wanted me to make all these changes, and I was uh naive enough to go, oh, okay, and make all the changes without necessarily realizing that small towns are a little bit change averse and risk adverse. And I was sort of dragging the library along behind me, and the library board didn't, despite telling me this is what they wanted me to do at every single board meeting. They were then like, Well, I mean, did you really have to do that though? And I'm like, Yes, like this, this is what you guys wanted me to do, right? I'm really confused right now, and so and then I ended up getting fired for it. So that's fun. Um I had to go to therapy for that one. That really messed with my brain. Um so, but you know, I am now back in the library world and I'm the chairman of the local library board um for the town that I now live in. Um, so I eventually got back to the point of like, I can still love libraries, um, even though I had this really traumatic experience, um, which, you know, hashtag thank you positivity. So um, so let's

Understanding How Libraries Acquire eBooks

SPEAKER_02 20:05

see. So I started working in libraries as a cert clerk. So if anybody listening is worked in libraries, it's a circulation desk, which is that desk you walk in the front and you check books in and out. Um, that was uh where I started, was just checking books in and out for patrons and um went really well, uh super enjoyed it. And then I my boss uh moved on to another job and I applied and I got her job, and I was now the circulation manager. Um, so I was managing the schedules uh for a large uh group of employees, and and I used to joke that that was my job title was to get yelled at. Like if anything bad ever happened, they were like, let's go get Aaron, and I'm like, thanks. So so it was my job to get yelled at there for a while. Um, and then I uh applied for and got um hired as the library director in another town. Um and I was there for 18 months um before I I got fired. Woo! Um and so I spent a total of seven years in the library world. That's great. And so fairly significant um time spent there. And I I love the idea of libraries, the equalization of access um in our society and the knowledge that is contained inside of a library, just genuinely um I I guess it's part of my my helper personality that that is something that really makes me uh feel like I've I've helped. a difference in the world by providing access to knowledge and um information to everybody that there is no there are no gatekeepers really in the library world it's it's open to the whole world so um it it's a big part of of who I am um but uh yeah so so with all that in mind uh when I started in the author world um I originally published in Kindle Unlimited because that's where everybody published and then when I realized that my books couldn't be in libraries I was like well screw this I'm I'm gonna go I'm gonna go wide so I can get my books into libraries. So uh one of the things that I I I've been thinking about what I should talk uh with the audience about today is just the idea of how how does the whole process work. Yeah because without the library background it's it is sort of like just a big black box of like not very entirely sure yeah yeah it's very murky so yes in lightness yes absolutely so um I think the first thing that a lot of people get very confused about is the fact that um uh libraries cannot purchase ebooks from a regular retail platform so um a lot of i've i've had authors say well i yeah my book's in KU but why doesn't the library just buy it from Amazon it's for sale there the print book they can buy from Amazon um they don't always and I can get into print in just a minute but right now there's there's there's a lot of different facets so let's focus just on ebooks for the this first bet um a library has to have a way to manage that ebook to lend it out to their patrons so if you think about a patron of a library saying okay I want to read you know J.R. Ward's latest novel um if the library were to just go and purchase an ebook from Amazon then they would need to have some way of lending that ebook to that patron um and then getting it back when it's done. You could build your whole internal lending system um Colorado actually was doing that there for there at the beginning. Colorado you could do what Colorado was doing or was doing back at the beginning of the ebook revolution where they were building an entire system in order to lend out ebooks from the library to the patron. It's incredibly complicated and um not something that can be done library by library that would be just crazy. So instead libraries use companies to buy the ebooks from and then those companies turn around and they deliver those ebook files to the patrons so that the library is simply using this company here to do all of the tech work. Okay you also don't want libraries buying your ebooks from retail sites and then lending it out to patrons if that was even an option which is not um you wouldn't want that happening because I can tell you in the library world um you have a constant um weeding process where you get rid of older books and you're bringing in newer books. And a lot of times books will just sort of weed themselves um by not being returned by patrons who check them out or the dogs eat it or I mean if you really want some nightmare material I can tell you because I worked at the circ desk I can tell you about the the condition that books would be returned in with milk and blood and all sorts of things all over the books and people just drop them off like nothing happened. I'm like um yeah so we don't really want this back as a matter of fact. So and then just books fall apart right so print books have a finite shelf life on them before they're really just not usable anymore and you have to replace it. Right ebooks don't have that so you are selling an ebook to that library that library has access to that book until the earth falls under the sun right so you wouldn't want a library to be able to go to a retail store buy your book for $499 and then be able to check that book out for the rest of eternity to their readers. It's not a great deal for the for the um the author so what ends up happening is is that you have this this um company in the middle that that uh sells the books on behalf of the authors to the libraries and then checks out the books to the patrons which the library libraries have purchased them the other option that um that there is is instead of um purchasing a new book a library can rent it um and so a librarian's whole job is to have a very educated guess about what it is that their patrons want to read now you're gonna have a lot of things of um you most libraries have a a line in their budget um in their acquisitions that is just for patron requests right so you go into the library and you're like hey I really want to read this book and they go okay cool they buy that book they pull the money out of the patron request line um that aside you shouldn't just have an entire library of nothing but you have to request it before um it's going to be available on the shelves um you have to have books other than that um and so it's a librarian's job in that in that case to decide okay and there's going to be some gimme's right James Patterson's latest book you're gonna buy it right that's and a lot of copies right uh absolutely absolutely um and libraries libraries actually have an auto buy list um in case anybody's curious um so you can say okay um every time James Patterson releases a book I want you know three copies of his of his release and you sign these contracts with a uh publishing or a print company like Ingram Spark and um and you just go through and you're like okay this is on the autobuy list we would have you know we had a big old list and we would say okay yes this this this and this um every time they released a book we just automatically would get it we didn't have to know anything about that book again this is print so I just switched three in case anybody's curious switch from ebook to print um but if you're ever like man how is it that James Patterson and Debbie McComber and you know JK Rowling always hit the top lists even like no matter what like they could publish their their their grocery list and they would be hitting the top of the New York Times bestseller list, right? It's because of these autobuy lists it does not hurt. Let's just put it that way because they have a built-in readership of all these libraries that are just going to purchase okay so back to ebooks though um a librarian is going to guess like okay this this ebook um is going to be checked out we think that there's going to be uh our local readers who would want to read this book so we're gonna go ahead and buy it um you can also say um I'm going to let readers have this as an option and if they pick it then us live the us as the library are going to pay a rental fee to rent this book um which is going to obviously be much smaller than the cost of the book itself we're gonna we're gonna pay this rental fee and then the reader can read it and we don't have to pay for a full fledged copy of that book and you can you can get a lot more books in front of your readers without paying as much okay um so if you're ever curious uh why it is that like for example overdrive does that they have a two they have a two system um two tier system where you can purchase it as a library or you can rent it um and you may be looking at your statement and going why the heck am I paying why did I get paid so little for this purchase like I got screwed it didn't get screwed um it was rented instead of purchased um but when that happens it goes to one patron and then it goes back and the library has to rent it again if it's going to be read by another patron. Okay well I didn't know that so speaking of overdrive what are the companies that kind of the middleman that um libraries get their ebooks from yes okay so obviously in in terms of dominance of the library ebook world overdrive is kind of like the Amazon right um they're they're definitely the big kahunas um and so there's there's that um and then the for the patron what they are seeing on their app or on their e-reader device is liby so overdrive and liby it's just which one is one is facing the librarian one is facing the reader but it's the same company okay okay I have people who are like so how do I get onto Libby and I'm like if you're on overdrive you're on libby um so it's just how it's marketed. Right so um overdrive is a Bikahuna

Getting eBooks and Audiobooks Into Libraries

SPEAKER_02 32:33

however there are lots of other ones out there um hoopla um is one and hoopla is only rentals right there they do not you cannot purchase a book from hoopla um it's all rentals then there's oh man um out of Spain they have a company called Adillo um there's biblioteca there's uh book in a box um um yeah the list so all okay okay but um that's those three who uh overdrive hoopla liby those are the ones that we see when we're when we're trying to put our paperback you know if we're in KU and we're trying to put our paperback in the library system those are the ones that we see correct no well no no no that's not right that's not right audiobooks yeah the audio books those are the ones tutorial um use the conversation shocking um but yeah so those are the three though that I wanted digital products are the ones that people will see and not maybe not know what they are yet exactly again.

Sara 33:51

Well so tell us like if an author wants to get their books onto Overdrive or Libby what would you recommend for that like draft a digital or cobo or something like that. Is that the easiest way?

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Right so okay so number one um if you're if you're wanting your books on Libby you're sending them to um um overdrive right um and then actually I just went ahead and pulled this up uh there's just so you know there's overdrive adillo biblioteca baker and tailor hoop la borrow box and palace marketplace okay libraries that are in draft to digital and there's lots more libraries than that around the world okay um so incredible what was your question again oh just like if an if I mean it's okay no if an author is interested in making sure their books are in libraries like their ebooks especially how do they do that what do they do draft a digital would you recommend or how would you recommend they do that? Yes thank you um so one thing that ties all of these libraries together is the fact that none of them want to work with individual authors um it turns out that we are a bunch of whiny people who want to we're annoyed and yes we break we can't figure out our password we don't know how to upload something all of that customer service the libraries are just like these library companies are like we don't really want to deal with all y'all you're kind of a pain in the patootie so you know what we're gonna do we're gonna use a distributor um so even if you wanted to go direct you cannot so just to have because I've had people who like so how do I upload overdrive and I'm like not by going to overdrive um you're going to either so there's okay um bit of a history lesson so Kobo and Overdrive used to be owned by the same parent company called Rackaten which is a company out of Japan at that point Mark Leslie Lefave uh ran Kobo Writing Life and he negotiated a really great contract between Kobo and Overdrive um that that when you upload to Kobo it is as if you were uploading directly to Overdrive oh in terms of the money that you're making from it. Again back this is all back to just ebooks that I talked about right now. So then um Rackaton sold off Overdrive it's no longer owned by them they still own Kobo but but Kobo and Overdrive are no longer sister companies but they still have that relationship in place. They still have that contract in place um so you can absolutely get to overdrive through Kobo. Okay um that is the only library that you can get to in some other way other than uh one of the main distributors um so typically I recommend either draft to digital or uh the other distributor that is quite good is Streetlib. Um Streetlib is a company out of Italy and they they're a big distributor and the the thing that I like about Streetlib is that they have access to a lot of um libraries and retailers that you can't get access to otherwise uh you can't get to them through draft to digital and it doesn't make sense to go to them direct um and so you can really get your books out to a to a worldwide audience um draft to digital is getting there they're getting they're adding more partners all the time um but but I feel like street lib sometimes isn't get enough love from and in attention so I'm just saying like if you haven't heard of Streetlib they're totally a valid option also so um so you're going to as an author you're going to either upload to draft to digital or to street lib to get to every library except for overdrive you can get to overdrive through streetlib or draft to digital you can also get to it through Kobo okay so at that point it's kind of your choice yeah um once these companies so book in a box um Palace Marketplace once they get the item then they turn around they sell it to libraries libraries purchase or rent it turn around and get it to the patrons so it's kind of a long usually when you're selling books you're like hey you reader you want to buy my book and the reader's like sure I'll buy your book and it's you know it can be as direct as off your own website right they don't even have to go through Amazon. With this it's like okay I'm gonna upload it to draft to digital who's going to send it to Palace Marketplace who's going to send it to the libraries who's going to send it to the patrons and then we're like I don't know why this is you know murky and dense for people to understand it totally makes sense there's there's just a lot in the middle um so so some important things to know is is that when you are selling ebooks, I think I started to make this this um point and then I got sidetracked what um that you should be selling at higher than retail to libraries because they do get to keep your book for the rest of eternity um so you should not just be selling at retail prices to them. I mean libraries will be like God bless you and all your children but um it's it there is actually also a librarians tend to be a little bit more traditionally published focused Pet Hub focused than than indie pub right and so honestly if your ebook is too cheap they will kind of look down on it. It's perceived value yeah yeah yeah there's there's got to be something wrong with this book like obviously the author didn't have it you know proofread or whatever it's got a big plot hole in the middle whatever it is um so so sometimes authors who are like well I want to make my book really accessible accessible to all these libraries because I love libraries so much um you can actually almost be hurting yourself in terms of sales by making your book too cheap.

Sara 40:24

Right. That makes sense I I know like when I'm going to put that library price in I always feel like oh you know I I love libraries and I want them to you know I want to give them a good deal but we should not be afraid to up our price like is there like a recommended multiplier of like your like if you have a regular price of like $499 do you want to do like two or three times that or is that like right exactly so no so I have a really handy dandy rule of thumb um y'all are free to use um which is where I take the price of the book um just the dollar amount so say $4.99 you're gonna take take the $4.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Okay multiply that by three and add the 99 cents back on. There you go $4.99 book would become $12.99.

unknown 41:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

$299 book would become $6.99. Yeah if you're like oh I just I can't handle that then maybe multiply it by two or by two and a half. But that's that you know add the 99 cents back on and call the day. Now um just to really confuse the waters let's switch over to audiobooks for just a moment. I was talking to uh Will Dages over at Find Wave Voices um within the last week and we talked about library pricing. And um I asked Tim you know what is a good rule of thumb and he said two to three times. So um whatever your retail cost is for your audiobook it should be two to three times that for the for the libraries um and every platform is going to give you the ability to set a library price versus a retail price. Okay so yeah that's great to know

Print Books in Libraries, Reaching Readers

SPEAKER_02 42:11

so we've talked about ebooks can you tell us print books how do we get print books in libraries yes okay so um number one um libraries are in love with hardcovers because they just last so much longer um books get returned in return shoots and they they land on top of each other and they get all smooshed up and um uh libraries are are tough on books even if the patrons are nice to it just the system itself can be tough on it um so if you're really wanting to get your books into libraries um focusing on getting hardcovers is is important um the second thing is uh in terms of getting into libraries uh large print is a very useful format that many authors overlook um print paperback regular print books are so easy to buy and everybody has them large print is not done for all books even in traditional publishing you have books that are released that are never put into large print versions um typically in terms of your library uh patrons um I can speak from experience here the ones who tend to be their most um uh religious about coming dedicated you know every week they're coming in and returning a stack of books and getting another stack um are are older, uh retired and have lower eyesight. Right. So there's obviously um people who have lower I sight um who are not older. But I'm just saying statistically, that is the most, yeah, the most common thing. So in that case, it these patrons are also the ones who are there and they are voracious readers because this is a big, this is their hobby, right? Some people go out golfing, some people sit there and read all day. Because so many people don't bother to put their books into large print. And so especially depending on the genre that you write in, um, large print can be a really big part of your income for print books. Um, so like I write Cowboys and my my um demographics, my audience skews older. So for me, I I actually make like 60% of my income from print books from large prints. Wow. Now let's say that you wrote in um uh YA or middle grade um or horror things that don't tend to have an older audience, then the large print may not make as much sense for you. So, but especially if you write cozy, especially if you write cozies, um mystery, thriller, suspense, um, romance, yeah. Yep, yep, you really should be looking at getting your books into large print.

Sara 45:40

Um that's great. So how do you let the libraries know about your books? You're probably going there.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

I am, I am, yes. Um sorry, sometimes my answers are so long-winded, it drives myself crazy. Okay, so in terms of selling to libraries, um libraries can buy print books from Amazon. Okay, that is a thing that they can do, but a lot of libraries don't tend to like to do it because of several built-in baked into the um system uh uh features that that are true. First off, libraries are still very old fashioned in that a lot of them have um purchase orders. PS um Amazon really just doesn't is like what is a P, what are we doing here? This is not how, right? You're built for retail. This is you can't send them a purchase order for a retail for a retail purchase. Um so so they're not really built in that way. The other things that library or that Amazon isn't really built for is um they don't have the the records. So in the library world, there's something called a MARC record, M-A-R-C. Um, and it is gives the library information about the book itself so that when the library, the book gets into the library, the reader, excuse me, when the book gets into the library, the acquisitions clerk um can easily then catalog and clerk can easily put it into the system. They don't have to create a whole record from from scratch. They can pull in and it sort of fills a lot of it in, and then they can add things in if they would like. That again doesn't exist with Amazon, that only exists in uh companies like uh Ingram Spark. This is why I'm constantly saying, you know, you got to get into Ingram Spark. Um Lulu. Um, and I'm actually not sure at this moment about Book Vault. Um I I am putting together a meetup with them so I can pick their brains about a lot of stuff, so I can have better information in terms of Book Vault. So yeah, so put a pin in it, at least in terms of my information on Book Vault. I can't speak to that yet. But Ingram Spark does have that metadata um information to help create the MARC record. So, so again, back to this is something that Amazon can't really offer. The third thing that Amazon can't really offer that that a company like Ingram Spark um uh or Lulu, I don't know about Lulu, but I know Ingram Spark can, um, is a library can say, look, when we get a book, we don't have a lot of people on the back end to help us um put dust jackets on and put barcodes on and put security strips in and do the stamps and do all these things. We would like it be to just be shelf ready. So um if you could just do that, that would be great. I mean, it does it cost money? Yes, it does. But you can order books from Ingram's Park that already have the spine label in place, already have a book, a barcode that is set for your library. Um, it can already have the dust jacket and the security strips and the stamps, and it's like you literally take it off the cart, scan it, put it on the cart, somebody goes and puts it out on the shelf.

SPEAKER_05 49:07

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

That is again is not available from Amazon. So when people are like, oh, just go buy my book from Amazon, I'm like, you don't quite understand. Like, there's a totally different world in terms of libraries. Um so if you're wanting to sell the libraries, you really do need to put your books up on Ingram Spark, at least at this point. Um, that's a very big, it's a very big thing. I'm still researching Lulu. I'm I'm a little bit unsure about them, and I'm completely unsure about Book Vault. I'm 100% sure about Ingram Spark. You get it there, they will get it to libraries. Um, if if Ingram Spark is intimidating to you because um they're not the most user-friendly website on the planet, an option is to use draft to digital. They do print that then gets sent to Ingram. So at least in the book world, um I've been saying forever, all roads lead to Ingram. Um if you upload your book to Amazon and you check mark that expanded distribution box, they're literally sending it to Ingram. That's how they're doing expanded distribution.

Sara 50:20

Yeah, and you're getting paid like a tiny little portion donated that you could have received a little bit more, yeah, or a lot more in case some cases from Ingram if you take the time.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

100%. Yes. I remember the first time I got paid for a print book through Amazon because I didn't have money for my own ISPNs. So, and I'm an American, so I don't get my own ISPNs like some cool Canadians do. Um, so I didn't have money to to upload my books to Ingram Spark. So I put expanded distribution um on my print book. And this is back when it was create space, right? And I remember the first time I got paid for a print book and it was six cents. And I called because I was like, there's something wrong, right? Like you can't have just paid me six cents because I sold a print book. And they were like, No, no, no, that's how much you made. And I was like, What? I was unhappy.

Jami 51:16

A few exclusives later, we found out it's because you checked expanded distribution, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

Exactly. So so if you aren't wanting to do um the full fledged to Ingram Spark, you can use Draft to Digital. They send it to Ingram Spark. Um, do you make less? Yes, you do. Um, are you in the because draft to digital has to take their cut, so you are going to make less. Right. Yeah. Do you have less opportunity to make sure that your metadata is optimized? Right. Yes. You will show up for less searches because your metadata isn't as optimized.

SPEAKER_05 51:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:56

Um, do you have any control over the discount or the return policy if you go through draft to digital? No, you don't. It's set by the company. You can set all that yourself if you go direct to Ingram Spark. So are there some big positives that go indirect? You betcha. But are you one of those people who's like, I hate my computer, and if I have to deal with this website, then I'm just not going to do it? Go through draft to digital.

Jami 52:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

Yeah. Then at least I have that.

Jami 52:21

That's great.

Sara 52:21

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we only have, oh, go ahead, Sarah. Oh, I was going to say, I think we're kind of getting close to the end of our time. We are. I want to ask one more question. Yeah, go ahead.

Jami 52:30

Well, okay. So let's say, how do how do I get to know me? Just play no Jamie Albright. How do I get them to know about my book, the libraries? Is the best way to have readers go request them? Is it to email them? I mean, what's the best part to show an event or to ask for an event?

Sara 52:54

Agree to host something.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

Yes. So this is the number one question that everybody has in terms of selling to libraries because there is no book bub that you can get that sends out your book, sends your book out to all these libraries, right? Um, so we're so used to being able to access our readers easily. We're gonna run Facebook ads, we're gonna run AMS ads, we're gonna do a fussy librarian, we're gonna get a book bub. And it's like, I found my reader. Um with libraries, it's like, uh, but how do I get my book in there? So um so there's there's a couple different things. Number one, if you're um have a library that is local to you, um, libraries almost always love to have your book in their library because they want to have a lot of libraries, will actually have a local author section. Um, and so you can either send them an email or you can go in in person. Um if you are not a big uh if that's intimidating to you, then definitely do the email one. Um if you do go in person, do make sure that you're not picking a super busy part of the day. So I would not recommend the first 30 minutes of the day because that's when the librarian is opening up and they're getting things set up and um and and don't pick during like a really big event to go. Um, but instead, like you know, 10:30 in the morning, like it's it's quiet, every all the regulars have come in, gotten settled in, and they're just starting to get to work. That's typically a pretty good time. Um right before closing, not a good time. Right in the middle of summer reading program, not a good time. Um so so you know, you've got that. Um, there is the ability that readers have to request books at their own library. So every library, like even the little baby ones, are getting to the point where there's a button on their website that says um request a book. You can send out an email to your readers and say, hey, look, I'd really like to get my books into more libraries. Um, and I have approached some libraries and stuff, but but I know that it would help a lot if the patron was making the request. Um and they will um you can you can hopefully convince at least a few of your readers to go to their own local library and and fill out a request form.

SPEAKER_05 55:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 55:23

Um for it. So um if you do go into a library, it's useful to have something called a cell sheet, S-E-L-L sheet. Um, and if you Google that, you'll be able to find what I'm talking about. Um, and it's just basically like here's the ISBN, here's the blurb, um, here's any you know, nice things that people said about it, here's how to buy it. Um, and it's just a one-page um flyer. It's like makes it easy for the librarian to purchase the item. Yeah, because that's that's super key. And then you can actually attach that as a PDF to emails you can put it into the um the email itself, or you can have it in your hand as you go walking into a library. But putting together a sell sheet is very useful.

Jami 56:15

Right. That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Wonderful and then yeah, and I just wanted to say really fast, just so people know, I am teaching a class just on print. Um, because like I know y'all are like, oh my god, Aaron, you just talked for the last however long about this, but um, it's gonna be a couple hours long class of like this is you know, um, different strategies in the end um return and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it it's there's just so much. Print is super complicated. Yeah, that's good to see.

Jami 56:48

In their ways. Oh, go ahead. Oh, we're talking over each other and we're looking at each other.

Sara 56:53

We've got a delay or something today, I think. But so will there be a link for that like on your website, or if you send it to us, we'll put it in the show notes. How about that?

SPEAKER_02 57:01

Yeah, yeah. Um, just aaronwright.net slash authors, or if you just go to aaronwright.net, um, there's an authors link at the top, and that will take you to wherever whatever thing I'm doing right now. Um, so actually at the moment, my next class is going to be a book bub uh prep class, but I'm going to be doing print after that.

unknown 57:21

Okay.

Jami 57:21

Book bub prep class, what is that?

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Yeah. So I've just had a lot of people who are like, I want help figuring out what the best book bub is, the best type of book bub to apply for. Yeah. Um, how you know, how to up my chances of being selected. And then once I do get a book bub, how do I best prepare for it? How do I best maximize that? Oh, that sounds fantastic too. Yeah. Yeah. So that's going to be the class that I'm that I'm um will be doing next. Awesome.

Sara 57:50

Awesome. Awesome. Great. That is great. Well, we will have all those links in the show notes. Thank you for coming back on and talking to us about libraries. We appreciate it. Um, we'll have all those neat links at Wish I'd Known Then for Writers. And um thanks to Alexa Blarberg for editing and producing the podcast and to Adriel Wiggins for doing the admin. We'll see everybody next week.

SPEAKER_01 58:13

Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to the Wish I'd Know Then podcast. We hope this episode inspired you, empowered you, and made you laugh a little bit too. If you loved it, tell your friends about it. And if you feel so inclined, leave us a review. We look forward to being with you again next week.