Sara and Jami on How to Craft Perfect Endings: Six Ways to Conclude your Novel

Episode 246 / It’s a Jami and Sara episode this week as they discuss the importance of endings, their favorite (and not-so-favorite endings) as well as the six different types of endings. 

Spoiler warning for these books/shows we discuss: 

Extraordinary Attorney Woo

Pride and Prejudice 

Sugar Daddy

Sixth Sense

Ted Lasso

The Partner

Nobody Wants This

Fourth Wing

The Serpent and the Wings of Night

Truly Devious

Cheat on Me, If You Can

And Then There Were None

💙 Become a supporter of the podcast https://wishidknownforwriters.com/support

• Access to backlist of exclusive supporter episodes
• Private slack group
• Shoutout on a future episode. 

⚡Links:

https://blog.reedsy.com/how-to-end-a-story/

Transcript

Jami 0:00

It's optimistic, right? That's what I like about it. And it fits with the cozies. Right. And for me, for a romance, you know, of course you gotta well, there are people that will argue with me, but I'm gonna say you gotta have a happy everything. I think you make more people happy if you have a happy ending, right? You make more people happy if you have a happy ending or a happy for now. It's just it's just good to kind of wrap it all up and with a nice neat bow.

Sara 0:33

Welcome to the Wish I None Men podcast. I'm Sarah Rosette and I'm Jamie Albright. And this week on the show is it's Jamie and I talking about endings, the importance of ending your novel well. Yeah. And how to do that and some different types of endings. We're excited to talk about this today. And we really don't have a whole lot of news or updates because we're recording this early. Jamie and I both have travel. So this we really don't have an introduction. We don't have anything new to talk about because we just recorded another one like five minutes ago.

Jami 1:06

For those of you who jump ahead and miss our introductions, don't jump ahead. We're about to start. Yeah.

Sara 1:13

So we're just going to dive right in and talk about endings. First, spoiler warning, we are going to talk about endings and spoil all kinds of things. So I will try and put a list in the show notes of the shows we talk about. And if you don't want to be spoiled, watch the show before you listen to this episode. But most of these things I don't think are going to be too surprising.

unknown 1:32

No.

Sara 1:32

I think they're pretty obvious. Yeah. We'll try not to we'll spoil things. You know, they're a little bit older probably.

Jami 1:38

That have been out for 30 years. Yeah. Yeah.

Sara 1:40

So anyway, we talk a lot about the importance of beginnings, the first line, the first chapter. Yeah. But you have to have a good ending as well. You can have if you hook the reader in the beginning and you give them so-so or a meh ending, they may not come back. You've got to leave them with that good impression. First, we'll kind of hit some general questions, and then we'll talk about different types of endings. Are endings hard for you to write? No.

Jami 2:06

Do you always know? I usually know. If I don't know before I start writing, I know pretty soon after I've started writing. Because my endings a lot of times will mirror my beginning. It's for me, I just like that kind of way to tie things. Yeah. And but I mean, I don't I was thinking about this last night. To do I just say I am really good at writing endings. I am really good at writing endings. It's and beginnings, it's the middle, you know, the middle that drags it down. Yeah, the the 50,000 words in between the beginning and the end that that really give me some issues. So I feel like it's okay to say I'm good at it because the majority of the book I'm not that good at. I mean it's hard.

Sara 2:56

Well, we all have certain things that are easier, you know, and I find I find beginnings easy and I do find endings easy as well because normally I know I usually know who did it, and I'm riding towards that. And then once I get there, I always have like a little like the last chapter or so is kind of the wrap-up, like what's everybody doing? How did it impact everybody? And you kind of want to, I want to give everybody that like, oh, so and so was a murder suspect, but now they're not and they're fine and everything's good. And you return the community to normal, you know.

Jami 3:30

Yeah, I like that about your book. You know, you get to see what they're doing, and they've they they too have a happy ending, sort of thing, or at least a happy for now.

Sara 3:39

It's optimistic, right? That's what I like about it. Yeah, for and it fits with the cozy's.

Jami 3:44

Right, right. And for me, for a romance, you know, of course you gotta well, there are people that will argue with me, but I'm gonna say you gotta have a happy everything. I think you make more people happy if you have a happy ending, right? You make more people happy if you have a happy ending or a happy for now. And and so writing those, it's just it's just good to kind of wrap it all up and with a nice neat bow. And I know there are people that are that might be writing literary fiction that are listening to this. I have no idea why you'd be riding listening to our podcast if you write literary fiction. Welcome, but yeah, that are going, oh my gosh. But I mean, genre fiction does like that things come together, and it even if it's not like it there's a satisfaction in the ending. So with a romance, I want people to close my book and have that moment like oh, that was just perfect. Perfect. That was perfect, and and I know we all want that, but you know, that is when I I am specifically writing to that when I'm writing an ending. And if it's not, if I don't have that feeling of oh, then I haven't done it right, and I need I know I need to go back. And I have written a mediocre book, a book that is not everyone's favorite, but because I ended it well and ended it on a high note, people went on and read the next book. And I do know that because reviews said, they let me know that. And actually, it's one of my favorite books, but but everyone else found it to be a less funny than the Brides books. So for them it wasn't as good. But because I ended it in a good way, then they went away. They were okay with it. Yeah, they were okay with it because it's like loving it, but they were okay with it.

Sara 5:52

Yeah, it's like the ending, it's like it's an aftertaste. It's either a good thing or a bad thing. If if you didn't enjoy it, it's like, oh, I just don't know if I want to put in the time and invest reading or listening to this next book because I'm not gonna get that what I want at the end. And it may not necessarily be an optimistic ending. People may like like the ambiguous endings that we'll talk about later. And if that's what you're promising your reader and that's what they're reading for, that's fine. It doesn't have to be happy. Right.

Jami 6:24

No, I mean, whatever promise you're making at the beginning of that book or with the genre you're writing, you better fulfill on it. Like you better fulfill, or you will not that reader will not read the next book. Or if they do, they'll read they won't be willing to stick with the next book if it doesn't open well. So yeah, that's very true. Yeah, yeah.

Sara 6:47

Yeah. Well, this question is kind of the same. When when you're writing a book, have you ever not known the ending?

Jami 6:52

Not really. Not not really. I mean, I haven't known how I was gonna set it, but I knew what would happen. I mean, of course, with romance, you know they're gonna get together, but it's it's not just that they get together. It's how you the details. Yeah, it's just how you put those puzzle pieces together to make everyone just happy. And so I haven't always known like this, you know, like the setting or where I was gonna do it. But and and too, with with romance, I think you really have you have two endings, really. The end of the book, I mean the end like the end of the last chapter, and then the epilogue. If the epilogue is about the previous couple, you really need that. You really need both. Like I I'm thinking about my duking it out book. I have an ending that I knew I was gonna do for the last chapter, and then the epilogue, I knew what I was gonna do, but I didn't know how I was gonna set it. But it became obvious once, you know, and it does usually my epilogues in particular reflect that first chapter. It is a mirror only, you know, the the image has changed a little bit because now they're together.

Sara 8:22

Yeah, and so you get to see yeah they're happy together. Yeah, I'm I'm the same. I feel like there's two endings for my mysteries. There's the who done it. And I want people to get to that point and be surprised, but also say, Oh, of course, that makes sense. I don't want them to be like, wow, that came out of left field. Who is it was the priest? Where when did he come in? I don't even remember him. Was there a priest in the book? Yeah. So I want the whodunit wrapped up in a way that's satisfying for the reader. So it's been a good puzzle, a good chase for them. Yeah. But then I feel like, like you were talking about the epilogue, yeah. Mine is that kind of denouement where you're bringing everybody in saying, okay, here's what everybody's doing. And a lot of times I won't know exactly how I'm gonna give everybody that they're back to their normal or things have changed, but in a good way. And so sometimes I don't know that as I'm writing. There was one time, I think I talked about this in another podcast. I had I was writing the Christmas book, and I just had a great time pulling in all these new interesting characters because it was like all these people coming together that didn't know each other. And I was like, Oh, I'll put in a lawn tennis champion and I'll put in the traveler and all this stuff. And then I was talking to my family about it, and my daughter said, Well, who did it? And I was like, I don't know. And I really liked all the characters, I didn't want to make any of them a murderer. Yeah, yeah. So so that one I had to work that one around a little bit, but I got going. Yeah, so but most of the time I do know who did it, and I do know how I'm going to have that kind of the world is okay again feeling at the end. I want that in there too. Yeah. So yeah, I for me the middle part is harder too.

Jami 10:04

Mm-hmm. That gives me a stomachache just thinking about it. Okay, well, let's not talk about middles. Let's go on. You read the next question. Okay. Do you have any favorite endings to a book, movie, or TV show? What made it so enjoyable enjoyable for you?

Sara 10:20

So this one there are certain books that I've enjoyed so much, but they're very specific to what I read. So I figured I would talk about a TV show, the extraordinary attorney Woo. It's on Netflix. And I the I love the ending of it because, like you said, it mirrored the beginning. So in the in the beginning, it's about a woman and she has autism and she's going to work in this law firm. And she starts out, and you can see she's worried, she's tense, she doesn't know how it's gonna go. And she takes the train, commutes by herself. And the end of the show, she's also leaving for work again. It's like the same same things happen. She talks to her dad, she gets on the train, but her demeanor is different. Yeah, and you just get this feeling that oh, she has gone on a journey and come out the other side. And I love that. I love the mirroring.

Jami 11:15

Me too. I think for me, one of my favorite romantic endings is the ending of the cure nutly Pride and Prejudice. Yeah, how you know he calls her Mr. Mrs. Darcy. And I mean, I just I mean, that's not from the book, but but I do love that. I love how and they kiss, you know, they didn't kiss the whole movie and then they kiss. And it's just I love that. For a book, my vi I'll tell you the book that I I always have. I will, you know, if I if I'm reading a good book and a good romance and I close, you know, I finish and I'm like, I love that, you know, I have that feeling, but the one the book that stands out where I had that feeling the most was a book by Lisa Klapus called Sugar Daddy. And it it's a saga, like it really probably could have been two books, but it's but it follows this girl, and man, she's had a hard life and a hard time. And but you know, she gets her happily ever after, and he does too. And and and you're just like, I mean, that just the way she did that, the way, and it was kind of a surprise who the hero was. You think it's one person, but it's not. That's why it could have been two books, but it it's just so I don't know, it she it's just so satisfying. I mean, it's just so satisfying. Liberty just gets her happy ever after, and man, did she work hard for it. So, yeah, that's a good one. TV shows.

Sara 13:02

I think TV shows are harder, Western TV shows, because they're episodic or they're they try and have the hook to pull you through to the next season, so you don't ever really get that satisfying ending. I think.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

No, I don't think so.

Sara 13:15

Yeah. There's certain books that like when I read The Thursday Murder Club by Richard Osman, that one, the be the end of it, I was like, oh, that was a lot of fun. And I I want to go back and visit these characters again. Yeah. You know, so I think that's for like a cozy mystery type or uh episodic. You enjoy the mystery, but then you're like, oh, I can't wait to get back to these people and see what they do next. I like that little hint of what's upcoming.

Jami 13:44

Yeah, and then there's always the sixth sense. I mean, that ending one just out of it was out of nowhere, but not but a satisfying ending. I mean, there's a comedian that says the funny thing about that one is that we could it we could believe that they didn't speak for a year. It was easier to believe they didn't speak, they lived in the same house and didn't speak for a year than it was to believe he was dead. I mean, and I'm like, yeah, you're right. So anyway, but yeah, that that was such a great ending to a movie that I really had a hard time sitting through, but but the ending really made it worth it.

Sara 14:25

It was so memorable, though, right?

Jami 14:27

It made it worth it, yeah.

Sara 14:28

Yeah, yeah.

Jami 14:30

What makes an ending unsatisfying to you?

Sara 14:34

Okay, so this one we have to talk about Ted Lasso. Yeah. Because I didn't enjoy the ending of season three, which was supposed to be the end of the whole show, although apparently they're gonna do the season four. I felt like with Ted Lasso, even though I know he was modeled on the flat art character, he drops in, yeah, does his thing and leaves, sort of the Jack Reacher type character, the James Bond type thing. Yeah. Even like Perot is like that. He comes in, he solves the mystery, he leaves. I I I realize that's what they were using, but it had such a strong found family aspect to it that at the end, I felt like they were sending him back, and I knew he would probably return to Kansas, but he was going back, and we didn't see that he had a support system there. It seemed like he was leaving everybody who was who knew him and understood him as this new, like he did go through a journey and came to a place where he realized he didn't have to be always be the happy upbeat person. Right, right. And everybody who understood that, he was leaving. So to me, it was like the found family was so strong in the London portions, yeah, that I didn't feel like it was a happy thing for him to go back, even though it should have been.

Jami 15:53

Yeah. It should have been, but yeah.

Sara 15:56

But you like the ending, right?

Jami 15:57

Uh I didn't mind it like you did. You you didn't like it, but but but I didn't mind it. But you're right. I mean, it it's really he had to go back.

Sara 16:09

He had to go back.

Jami 16:10

He had to go back. His son was there. And I did like how you knew that her relationship with that guy was not gonna last because of the way he was acting during that game and the things he was saying. The boat guy? Yeah, the okay, I can't remember. Or no, her psychologist, her their therapist.

Sara 16:29

Oh, yes, yes. Okay, the ex-ho the ex-wife, yeah, the guy she was dating. Yeah, that was a big mess.

Jami 16:34

I don't know if they got like together, but you did see that they I mean they were happy he was coming home. She was too. So yeah. Anyway, I I didn't mind it as much as you, but yeah, I did hate that he had to leave everybody.

Sara 16:49

Yeah, and I think part of it too is they almost treated it like a death. Uh, there was that one scene where Rebecca said, he's not dying. And I was like, Yeah, they can't zoom, they can't go visit each other. Even if they had been like, Oh, I'll come see you in the spring, Ted, or he would come back for a visit, it would have made it not quite so sad. Right, exactly, exactly. So did you have any unsatisfying endings?

Jami 17:13

Well, nothing specific. I mean, I can give you a list. I mean, the other day, my mom and I watched this movie, and I'm like, Are you kidding me? It was so bad, but but it basically boils down to one in movies, bad editing, because what they've done is they rush the edits and they haven't they rush the story. They you know, they have I always felt until I really understood editing. I always thought, did I miss something? Like where go to the movie, especially with rom-coms. I felt like I would like I didn't get up and go to the bathroom, but what happened here? So what did I miss? Yeah, yeah, what did I miss? But it's that whole, you know, we and I have I have either been guilty of it, and thank goodness I had somebody to say, Hey, you've done this and you need to fix it. Or I've noticed it myself and fixed it, but you know, you just you're almost done and you just want to get done. Or you have a deadline and you're like, I gotta get done. And so you you rush that ending. It's not like you don't get to see everything play out the way it should play out. And that will create an unsatisfying ending almost every time.

Sara 18:33

Almost every time. Yeah, there are lots of movies that I've seen lately that I think that could have used a few more rounds of revision, that script, because it's like it has all the parts, but it just doesn't come together in a satisfying way.

Jami 18:47

Or they shot the scenes and then they just edited them out because of time. And you need to Yes, to make it fit a certain length, yeah. Yes, yes. So yeah, anyway, but it's yeah, just rushing an ending, just really will I and I will tell you the most unsatisfying ending of all in a book. I'm still mad at him, and it's been 25 plus years, and it's a wonder I kept reading, you know. I didn't read a book until I was 30, and it was a John Grisham book, and I really liked it. I think it was the firm. I can't remember which one of those I read, but like the second or third of his that I read was the partner that had the worst in the it was one of those. Wait, was there a priest in this book? I don't remember. I mean, like that the the female character acted so out of character in the last eighth of the book. And that was the whole plot twist and everything. I mean, you never saw an indication, even the slight because I went back and read it again just to make sure, not the slightest indication that she had any sort of ulterior motive. It was the worst ending of a book that and I feel like I can call his name, John Grisham, be and say it with my whole chest because my negative review of the partner is not gonna hurt his fortune. No, his name, not even a little bit.

Sara 20:19

So no, we try not to nitpick other authors, but no, yeah, I think he's probably gonna be fine. Yeah, he'll be okay. He'll be okay.

Jami 20:26

There are a lot of his other books that I did love, so yeah.

Sara 20:29

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so we're gonna switch up and do different ways to end your novel. There's many articles that kind of cover the same thing, but I found this article from Readsy, and it's how to end a story, six ways all stories end, and I'll put a link to that in the show notes.

Jami 20:46

Yeah, it's a great article.

Sara 20:47

That's really good, it has tons of examples. So we're gonna talk through a little bit of it and give some examples that come to mind for us. The first one is the resolved ending, and the article says answers all questions and no loose plot threads. There is nothing more to tell because the characters' fates are clear clearly presented to the reader. And this is kind of what we've been talking about. Yes, mysteries, romance, very common on standalone. All my books have a resolved ending. Yeah, mine too.

Jami 21:14

Yeah, too. Yeah. Unresolved endings. This type of ending asks more questions than answers, and ideally leaves the reader wanting to know how the story will continue. It lets them reflect on what the hero has been through and pushes them to imagine what is still to happen. Episodic mysteries, linked romance series, sci-fi limited series, book one and two of a trilogy. Mention cliffhangers, but I guess this is unrealistic. I don't think this is as severe as a cliffhanger. As a cliffhanger. But you know, I mean, here's the deal romance readers say they hate cliffhangers, they lie. But they they will get mad. But I think if you if you resolve I mean you can leave them on a big cliffhanger as long as you resolve some other things. Or in like episodic mysteries, or as I think about sci-fi too a lot of sci-fi stories, so they because they just they continue and and you can resolve like a small battle, but you still have the big raging or whatever.

Sara 22:27

Or book one is like building the team, getting everybody together, and then book two is you're doing the heist or something, and then book three is something else, but like you continue the story, right?

Jami 22:41

Romanticy is kind of big, like you know, if you've got multiple books, and and I will say the second book in fourth wing series, Iron Flame, there were a lot of people not happy about that ending, not happy at all. It was cliffhanger, but it also kind of it hit the I mean it it it felt like it was dissolving, abolishing, destroying the relation, any potential relationship between the hero and the heroine. And I think that I think I think that's what people were afraid of. I can't imagine that would be the case. So, you know, I'd love I'm I'm excited. I'm excited to see how they fix it. Yeah, yeah. I'm curious.

Sara 23:26

But it's just one of those impossible setups, yeah, and that will bring people back, but they may be mad while they have to wait.

Jami 23:34

Right. There was a there's a book and it's got a really long name, and I will not be able to think of it because you know, my brain, I can only hold a couple of words at one time. But it it is, you know, it was a two-book series in the end, like it had built this this romance, this relationship of them two being of the two of them being together. And then when it ended, you were like, Oh my gosh, how will they, how will they ever be together? But I knew that they could possibly be together, but it put them, I mean, it was a betrayal, you know, and so because of that, I really wanted to see what how they fixed it. It was The Serpent and the Wings of Night by Carissa Broadbent. I don't know. It's the Serpent of the Wings of Night and the Ashes and the Star Cross King, Star Curse King, and really and truly I loved this way, it's Vampire book, and I really loved that series, it was really good, and I thought she did a great job making it so oh they can never be together, but can they? But can they? But can they? Yeah, and she did resolve a lot of other things in the process.

Sara 24:56

Yeah, so talking about that made me think of it's Maureen Johnson, I believe. Yes, Maureen Johnson. She wrote a series, the truly devious series, and I would not recommend this. I wouldn't do this, but the first book has a mystery that's not resolved, like the main plot is not resolved. You had to read all three books.

Jami 25:20

Oh, wow.

Sara 25:21

To get the answer to the question, which normally that doesn't work at all. Right. But she had a a fan base who would follow her. So I would not recommend doing that. And that's a little bit more severe than I think what we're talking about here. Right. The thing that came to mind when we first read this was the Netflix series series Nobody Wants This, see the first arc of their story basically. And it ends, spoiler, with them together, right? But you don't know how they're gonna work it out with all the family issues, right? Right. That's the question. So that will be the next season. So you've got a resolution, but then there's more questions. How will they handle? Yeah, how will this work out of barriers? Yeah, yeah.

Jami 26:01

Well, and that's like a lot of the like thriller books that I read. There's one series in particular, and you know, like the the mystery is solved, like we catch the killer at the end, but it's the relationship between the two main characters that has been serious about. Yeah, that has continued through the series, yeah.

Sara 26:30

Yeah, and people will come back for a romance thread. Yeah, they will. That was unresolved ending. So the third type is ambiguous ending. And the article says, and an ambiguous ending leaves the reader wondering about the what-ifs. Instead of directly stating what happens to the character after the book ends, it allows the reader to speculate about what might come next without establishing a right or wrong answer. So this one I couldn't think of a specific genre that does this all the time. But there are thrillers do it.

Jami 27:01

Some of the they do that whole, especially like the Jack Reachers or the, you know, that kind of like the mystery is solved, but you don't know what's happening to him. Usually it's him walking off down the road, you know.

Sara 27:16

Or I just watched a K-drama that's called Cheat on Me If You Can. And the whole thing, it was it had so many mystery elements to it. And there is a mystery that that is solved, but what's going on between the main characters you don't really know. And it and normally I don't like an ambiguous ending, but because it was a theme throughout the whole series, I was okay with an ambiguous ending. Yeah. And a couple people had mentioned it and they were like, I'm curious to see what you say about the ending. Do you like it or not? And I didn't mind it. And they did it in not just the main characters, but some of the other plot lines. Right. We weren't quite sure how it was gonna turn out. And there was no like, oh, they got together. No, they didn't. Yeah, you know, it was it was throughout the whole thing. So I was okay with that.

Jami 28:08

Yeah. Uh some of the Marvel movies do that too. They have like they they saw the like who's whoever's trying to end the world gets caught, killed, sent into the realm, whatever. But you don't know what's happening with their with our main characters, like there's this really ambiguous thread there sometimes, not always, but sometimes in my don't come at me, Marvel people. I am not I'm a novice, I am not speaking for the Yeah, and I can I can't help you out there because I'm not but that's about it. I don't like ambiguous endings. I don't. I'm just gonna tell you I'm I'm basic. Me too.

Sara 28:56

Normally I'm normally they make me mad. Yeah, because I want that, yeah, I want that complete circle like we talked about. Yeah, you know, where you get the resolution.

Jami 29:04

Yeah, I don't want I I want to think about them together. I don't want to sit back and have to wonder what happened, especially if there's kid involved or anything. I've seen some bad, bad, bad.

Sara 29:18

Yeah. I think some people like ambiguous endings because they like to think about the what-ifs and the possibilities. And I guess they make good book club books because you can have discussion. Yes.

Jami 29:31

The fourth one is unexpected ending. If you have led your readers to believe that your book will end one way, but at the last possible moment you add an unexpected twist that they didn't see coming, you've got yourself an unexpected ending. I would say that would be sixth sense.

Sara 29:53

Sixth sense, yeah. Yeah. And then there were none that has an ending that does have an ending. It was, you know, revolutionary, I guess, when it came out. Mostly thrillers. I think this happens a lot in thrillers. With the sixth sense, did you you weren't angry about it, right? You weren't like that came out of nowhere, right? No, not at all.

Jami 30:16

I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah. I wasn't. I mean, I I slapped my husband on the arm and oh my gosh. No, I mean, like I said, that was that made the whole movie worth it to me. Because the movie scared me. I didn't really, I don't like being scared. Yeah. So it scared me. And but yeah, I guess you do take you take a chance, I guess, of doing that, which is fine. I mean, I think we should all take chances.

Sara 30:47

It's just but if it goes well, you've written an iconic book that people will talk about years later. How many horror type thriller movies do people continue to talk about? But six cents is up there. Yeah, it's memorable. And and then there were none as iconic as well. So it's a risk. Yeah. All right. So the fifth one is the tide ending or full circle. It's it can be metaphorical or literal. The story ends where it began. So it was like we talked about earlier. You've got the full circle example I thought of was good night moon, because you start out saying goodnight and then you kind of retrace back through the book to the stain point, but everything's different. So it's like if you everything there has to be a change, I think, for this to be a satisfying circle. Otherwise, unless that's your point, is that nothing ever changes. And that would be a different type of full circle ending.

Jami 31:46

Yeah, I think I'll did you put literary fiction under there? Yeah. Yeah, I think sometimes literary fiction books will do that. Not that I've read a ton of them, but I have read a few. I'm sorry. If you're again, if you write literary fiction and you're listening, I'm sorry.

Sara 32:02

Well, literary fiction doesn't really fit in any specific category. I think that's part of it. And so you and I tend to be genre readers more than anything else.

Jami 32:10

We are, we are. Again, basic. And then the last one, uh the sixth one, yeah, that is the last one, is expanded ending, epilogue, what happens after the story ends, look at the future. Uh, this is like a romance. I mean, this is what I write. I usually because, like with my bride's books, they were runaway brides. I ended all of them with weddings because they were running away from a wedding to the wrong person at the beginning, and then they were getting married to the right person at the end.

Sara 32:44

So it's their it's their happy ending. Like they start off with a terrible experience and then they get their happy ending.

Jami 32:50

Yeah, they get that like and in the first one, you know, she she wakes up and they're married in Vegas, which was not ideal for her given who she was, and then that so they have another, a real, you know, a root quote unquote real wedding at the end. And but you do wrap a lot of stuff up in that and you see the growth of the each of the each of the people in and it's a way you can bring in all the family, right?

Sara 33:22

And right, and you can even have the characters that maybe are gonna be in the next book right there, right?

Jami 33:27

So you can get a little hint about that as well. And then in my other two books, I have the engagement, like where they get engaged. Yeah. So yeah, yeah. I didn't do a wedding for them or a baby. Well, and then actually in one of my in the third bride's book, but it's a s it's a surprise pregnancy, so she's it's the wedding and the pr and the birth all at the same time, kind of thing. Just getting it all in that book, just wrapping it all up.

Sara 33:59

Yeah, so I don't normally do an epilogue. I maybe I've done one or two, but I do a thing with the 1920s series because it's episodic. Yeah, I'll have the wrap-up, the who done it, then I s then we see all the characters back in their world and everything's good. And then a lot of times I'll have the little just a little hint of what the next case is gonna be because that pulls readers back. Yes, it really does. Olive will get a letter from somebody or a telegram, or she'll have some sort of interaction that will bring bring her to the next case. Yeah. So the only drawback to that is that it makes the timelines really short. So if you want to skip from one season to the next, it's hard to do. But that has worked well for me. But I wouldn't consider that an epilogue. It's a cross between an epilogue and the unresolved ending. So you've got a taste of that, but not much. Yeah. Yeah.

Jami 34:55

I agree.

Sara 34:56

Okay. Anything else on endings? No, I think that is probably it. I would say that if you're having trouble with your ending, maybe go through these, try different possibilities. And I think mirroring, like you were talking about, is one easy way, at least gives you a starting point. Go back to your first scene and figure out how can I mirror this, but but show the growth. Or if you don't know how to start your book, but you know how it's going to end, you can do it the opposite way. You can you can set up your starting point to match your ending. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Jami 35:34

Yeah.

Sara 35:34

All right. So that's all we've got.

Jami 35:36

Yeah. I love it. That was fun.

Sara 35:38

That was fun. Yeah. So let us know by the time this goes out, we will be coming back in town and getting back to podcasting. So if you have a favorite ending, let us know. Send us a text and we'll talk about it.

Jami 35:53

Yeah. Or one you just hate.

unknown 35:55

Yeah.

Jami 35:55

Unless it's one of our sometimes those are more memorable. That's right. It's a private message.

Sara 36:04

All right. Well, we will have all those links in the show notes and we will talk to y'all next week. All right. See you later. Bye today.