The Truth About Book Marketing: Ads, Social Media, and Discoverability Myths

311 / Think you need to be on every platform, spend big on ads, or release a book every month to succeed as an indie author? We’re busting some of the most common publishing myths. 

✨ This week’s sponsor is Vellum: http://tryvellum.com/wish

But first, we catch up on life after a writing retreat: the post-draft crash, newsletter plate-spinning, and the genuine weirdness of evaluating promos when the market keeps shifting 

• Honest BookBub promo numbers and why results look different now
• Why discoverability matters more than "good enough" writing
• Why you don't need every social media platform to succeed
• Newsletters, Goodreads, and BookFunnel as practical visibility tools
• Why direct sales and Kickstarter can work even with a small audience
• Why rapid release is optional and genre dependent
• Why ads don't require huge spend, and how AI is changing targeting
• Genre zeitgeist: how trends like cozy and romantasy impact your strategy

💙 Become a supporter of the podcast https://wishidknownforwriters.com/support or https://wishidknownthenpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

• Access to backlist of exclusive supporter episodes
• Shoutout on a future episode
• Thanks to long-time supporter Delaney Smith 💜

⚡Links:

• http://tryvellum.com/wish
• Alessandra Torre on Goodreads: https://open.substack.com/pub/wishidknownthenpodcast/p/alessandra-torre-on-goodreads-movie-10c?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web

Transcript

The Jungle Feeling In Publishing

Jami 0:00

The tried and two path is not as clear anymore. And so people are trying different things all at one time.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Sara 0:09

It's like we're all in the jungle with a machete trying to find our path.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

We don't know which path we're on. Trying not to whack each other while we're at it.

Sara 0:20

Welcome to Wish I'd Known Then Podcast. I'm Sarah Rosette.

Jami 0:23

And I'm Jamie Albright. And this week on the show, we have me and Jamie. Me and Jam. Me and Jamie.

Sara 0:34

I'll leave this in. We'll prove we're real. We're not AI.

Jami 0:39

Exactly. Yep. It's us again.

Sara 0:41

And we're going to be talking about some myths people have around publishing and whether they're true or not, and our thoughts on them. So we'll do that. But first, this week our corporate sponsor is Vellum. Yes. We'll talk about them a little bit more in a minute.

Post Draft Crash And BookBub Results

Jami 0:56

Yeah.

Sara 0:57

What do you have going on?

Jami 0:59

I sent my book to the editor on Sunday. And now I'm now I'm in a pump because I'm like letdown.

Sara 1:10

Yeah. It's the post-book completion letdown. You hit the high and now you're in the low.

Jami 1:16

The high lasted all of about 30 minutes, and then it's just been a tailspin after that. This is the life of the author. I know. And so I'm just I'm doing some marketing stuff. I've reached out, sent some emails, I'm working on influencer stuff. But yeah, it's a bit of a letdown. I'm like, what am I supposed to be doing? Because I had just developed this habit. I get up, I get dressed, I get out the door, I go to Starbucks this morning. I got up and got dressed, but I didn't go to Starbucks. I ran a couple of errands and I just, yeah, I'm just feeling a little lost. So I don't know what to do. So yeah, that's me. Nothing much. Like literally nothing much. We were at that retreat last week, which was great, but now I'm here just twiddling my thumbs.

Sara 2:09

I feel like I feel like it's hard anytime you finish something or you transition to a new phase of something, you can have to readjust. And then being out of town and coming back on top of that probably makes it more intense.

Jami 2:22

Yes.

Sara 2:22

Right. Yeah.

Jami 2:24

All of that. Yeah.

Sara 2:25

Yeah.

Jami 2:26

Oh, I do want to say that I had my book bub not so terribly impressive. It was a 99 cent. But it's interesting because on the day of the book bub, it said I had 449 downloads. That's all. A little shocking. Also, I do know someone sent me out in their newsletter and it was a really large newsletter.

Sara 2:50

So you don't know exactly what came from each thing.

Jami 2:55

But my rank on that book was down in the 500s. So 400 it doesn't seem like 449 downloads would get me to the 500s, but that hadn't changed those numbers, have not changed at all. I don't know. It's weird. It's just really I mean, I'm getting read-through. That's good. If all I move, I mean, I had some other promos and newsletter swaps, but that I was definitely counting on more than that. Now I did make it according to my dashboard, I made$100. The the promo the promo was$280 and I made$380 that day or whatever. But again, I don't know how many came from book five. I don't know. And I'm a little embarrassed, but I thought I should share it because this was also in romantic comedy. It wasn't in contemporary romance, but and someone did say that possibly that romantic comedy list is not as curated as it should be. I don't know. But yeah, just FYI. So the that list would be smaller than it. It is smaller, clearly, because the difference in price is$400. Yeah. I was for a 99 cent in contemporary romance, it was like$650. I was like, I just don't know. Given what I had heard about Book Bub, I just was worried. And y'all, this was the first time I've ever had a book bub. It's not like I flooded that market or anything. And yes, this is the first book in the Bride series. So that book has sold a lot of books, but it's been four and a half years, five years since that book was really selling, and certainly have had any exposure like this would have. And that's plenty of time for that list to turn over or to get new people. And yeah, not changed. Yeah, the reviews I'm getting are great. That there have been a couple of TikToks, they've been great.

Sara 5:06

It's just I can't move those books. I think the market has just changed. The market has just changed in what maybe what five years ago? Yeah. A book bub, you really saw huge results from that. And now you just don't. We still love book bub. I would still recommend if you can get one to do one, because those are people that will have seen your book that maybe have never seen it. Yeah. And people who read it, if they read through everything, that's great. But still, it's I know it's a little disappointing.

Jami 5:37

It is. It is, but it's okay. I mean, you know, I'm just choosing to look at it since this book is not this book I'm putting out, it's not romantic comedy. That's just the universe's way of protecting.

Sara 5:49

If I had thousands of rom rom-com downloads, then yeah, they might be really disappointed if they pick up your book, read through it, and then your next book isn't a rom com. The next one you release isn't. So it'll probably all work out fine. But I don't think even the people that used to get a huge spike. And Amazon's changed the way they do their algorithm now. So even if you got a huge spike, it sounds like they might depress that a little bit, a little bit so that it's not so big and doesn't impact the rank as much.

Jami 6:21

The good, the bad, the ugly. I'm here, y'all. You get it all. You get it all with us. I'm not gonna lie.

Retreat Reset And Too Many Tasks

Sara 6:28

That is the truth. Yeah. Well, for me, we're back from the writing retreat, like you said, and I've just been cleaning up things that need to be cleaned up, doing email. I've got some newsletters that need to go out. I signed up for some book funnel sales promos. And to be in those, you usually they require you to share with your list. And I have this, I don't know what it would be, this compulsion that once I sign up for one, I just have to go ahead and do the newsletter and schedule it, or else I can't sleep. Yeah, that's exaggerating a little bit. But I have to get that done because I feel that's a responsibility I owe. And it just bothers me. So I'm working on that. And I did a couple of paperback giveaways, a Goodreads giveaway. I have two of those going. So I did it in phases and separated them by a few weeks. So one is completed, sent those off, mailing out the trope books, the giveaway that I did on Substack. So if you got contacted for a trope book, those are going out. And I have a lot of plate spinning, and I don't know which ones I'm gonna focus on. Right. So trying to narrow it down. We got a lot of ideas and information and mindset things during the retreat. So I'm trying to sort through all that, figure out priorities.

Jami 7:38

Yeah, that was a lot, and I did do a like a hot seat, help seat kind of thing, and for this launch, and I got a list here, and then on top of that, Claude has given me a list set for marketing stuff. So that's it's a lot, but I got a lot done Saturday. I needed there were emails I needed to send and just people I needed to reach out to. I did a re-engagement campaign for my newsletter. Yeah, so just that kind of thing. Yeah.

Supporter Thanks And How To Help

Sara 8:13

So we're busy about many small things, basically. Yeah, yeah. Thank you to our supporters that support us every week so thankfully. We really appreciate it. And I want to give a shout out to a longtime supporter that we've had for over three years, Delaney Smith. I don't have a link to a website or anything for Delaney, but we just want to say thank you and we appreciate it, along with all of our other people who support us each week. If you've gotten value from the podcast and want to help us out and let us know that you support us, one way to do that is to support us through the podcast. You can click on the link in the app, or you can support us on Substack, or you could share the podcast or post your review. We never ask for those, but we do appreciate those as well. And if you become a supporter, you get access to the backlist of supporter episodes and a shout-out in a future episode. And this episode that we're gonna do today, we're gonna split it up and we're gonna do part of it. We'll be going out to all the on the regular feed. And then the last half of it we will do for supporters only. So that's our plan for today, at least at this moment, right now. That's the plan.

Vellum Formatting Tools We Rely On

Jami 9:28

Things change all the time around here. Yep, they do. And we just want to especially thank our corporate sponsor, which is Vellum, this month. We just appreciate them so much. Sarah and I both use them, and we find them so helpful. Just the software itself is so helpful, but they're also so helpful.

Sara 9:50

The software works great. It's easy to use. And they are just very responsive to requests and issues that people have in the author community. They go to conferences and really stay in touch with what's what the needs are of authors and try and improve it. If you don't know anything about Vellum, it's a Mac only software that you can use to format your ebooks and print books. And it takes Word documents and files and it creates the EPUB or print version, PDF version that you need to upload to Amazon, Kindle, Kobo, Nook, all the different places. And it also creates the print files for you. The they're just beautiful. You can modify them and use them in different ways. Yeah. And it's got a really, I like the this is such a simple thing, but I like the little tab that you can open and see the preview of what it's going to look like. Yeah. It's easy to tell. Oh, especially with the print stuff. You can see there you need to change things. Right. I hate having the that they call it an orphan, where you have one line of text or one word, and you can fix that. It can, you can see and fix that. And then they've got styles for chapter headings and block quotes and ornamental breaks, and just makes it really pretty, but it's not like I have to spend even hours, I was gonna say a day or two, but not even an hour or two. I can get a book formatted pretty quickly. Yeah. Because it's pretty easy to use.

Jami 11:15

Yeah. You know what I really like about it is once you create it, it creates this film file that goes in your files. Like I always put it in with the book under my book file in my on my computer. And then if you have to go back in and update it, or I inevitably forget something and I have to go, it just keeps that same file. It's not like you're having to find it in different places. It just what's the word I'm looking for?

Sara 11:43

It keeps the most current file.

Jami 11:44

Yes, it keeps the most thank you. It keeps the most current file. And I really like that because half the time I can't find most of my stuff. So I always know where it is because and always know that whatever's in there is the most current of that book.

Sara 12:00

So that is nice instead of having me final, final, final. If you have your title, V1, V2, V3, final, final. So they've saved us from ourselves because they knew we would have trouble with that. Exactly.

Jami 12:13

So thank you, Vellum, very much. We appreciate your support, your support, sponsorship.

Myth Great Books Automatically Sell

Sara 12:18

It means the world. Yes. And if you're interested in that, you can go to trivellum.com slash wish W I S H. So that will help us out if you use that link. And let's see. So I guess we're getting into the myths now. Are you ready?

Jami 12:34

I'm ready.

Sara 12:34

Okay, so let me get to my list here. All right, these are just common publishing myths, and we're going to talk through them. And I don't know, maybe I'll go back in and add a sound effect later if they're busted or if they're true. We'll have a maybe see how much time I have when I edit this. Okay, so myth number one: if your book is good enough, it will sell.

Jami 13:00

I'm gonna say that's that is definitely a myth. Unfortunately, there are some really great books out that very few people have read because it's about getting those books in front of the right readers.

Sara 13:14

They're undiscovered. And sometimes I discover a book and I think, oh, this is amazing. Why don't more people know about it? Yeah. There is something to be said for you've written a great book, people read it and they like it and they talk about it, and that can spread the word. But I that's probably if you're a professional author trying to make a living at this, that's not a good strategy, right?

Jami 13:38

Hope is not a strategy that we all do. I would say, yeah. And there, you know, there are a lot of different ways you can try to get your book in front of the right readers, you can pair up with other authors in your genre and do some sort of promo. You can run ads, you can do social media stuff. Again, visibility is all of ours, all of ours. I guess that's right. Ours.

Sara 14:06

Sounds good enough to me.

Jami 14:08

Okay, it's all of our biggest problem, it's our biggest challenge, I should say. How do we get visibility? We're all trying to figure that out right now. And yeah, but there are ways to do it.

Sara 14:26

Yeah, that's the challenge right now is making your book visible, finding readers' discoverability, right? The ability to find people who haven't read your book and enjoy it. Yeah, so yes, that is a challenge. And you've got to write a good book, that's important. That's like the first step, but there's more to it than that.

Jami 14:45

That's the bare minimum. Yep.

Myth You Need Every Platform

Sara 14:47

Yep. Okay. Myth number two, you have to be on every social media platform to succeed. Yeah, no, that's yeah. But I think in the past there was a time when it would have been good to be everywhere. Like when social media was working for discovery. Yeah. You could find readers that way. But now it's not, it doesn't work the same way now.

Jami 15:12

It doesn't, and it's weird because you know what was working, Facebook was great for authors and readers. It just isn't anymore. You just people don't people in groups aren't seeing the posts that are being in groups. You don't have to be on social media. And you don't have to be everywhere either.

Sara 15:31

Yeah, and you can do different things. You can do always a newsletter. That's always the recommendation is have a newsletter and use that. And then if you want to invest in something like direct sales, you can do that. Networking with other authors, like I'm doing the book funnel promo, sales promo, and that is just networking with other authors, basically. It's a book funnel set up this kind of medium to let us do this, a platform where we can connect with other authors easily. But you could do something like that on your own. Correct. Find three or four authors who write in a similar genre or even just related and set up some share, sharing that way. I was trying to think of other things that you can do besides social media, since that seems to be everybody we often feel like we have to do social media. And there's podcasts, there's Pinterest, which is not really a social media platform, it's more of a search engine. And if you can figure that out, there's Substack. And there's plenty of options.

Jami 16:35

Yeah, I would say even Goodreads, though, most of the time when people when I say Goodreads, people flinch. According to Alessandra Torrey, you know, it's a great way to find readers and have readers find you. That's the important thing. It's a place where readers can find you.

Sara 16:53

So that's yeah, and it is a huge platform of readers. They're over there a lot of times on social media, they're looking at book stuff, but then they're also look shopping, looking at pictures from family and friends. And so if you're on Goodreads, you're pretty the discussion is books. So you're over a hurdle there. At least you've got your readers there. So that's a good start. And I'm doing the Goodreads promos or the Goodreads giveaways because that makes my books more visible over there for a little while. It comes to the top of people's feeds. I'll link to Alessandra's interview we did with her because I think she talks about how when you run a giveaway, it goes in their feed several different times.

Jami 17:36

It does. Yeah. Anytime anyone mention mentions your book, anytime you shel a book to be read, which to enter a giveaway, you have to shove the book to be read. Anytime you leave a review or make a comment about a book, it always goes it goes into their feed. And so it's a kind of a constant way to, or while that book is in the giveaway, to have it be seen. Yeah.

Sara 18:03

Yeah. And then I think there are people that just look at the giveaways. They go in and browse the giveaways and see what's in there. And they may see your book and think, oh, I love this subgenre. I'm I may not win this, but I want to read it later. So yeah, absolutely.

Jami 18:16

Absolutely.

Myth Direct Sales Needs A Huge Audience

Sara 18:17

Okay, so that was our third one. Let's see what's next. Or no, wait. That was our second one. So the third one, direct sales is only for authors who already have a huge audience. I would say this one partially true.

Jami 18:32

I don't think you have to have a huge audience for direct sales. If you have, if you can get Facebook ads to work for you to drive traffic to your store, I think the majority of people who are selling well direct have they have a constant stream of customers coming to their store from other places and not necessarily their newsletter. So they're driving traffic there from Facebook or some of the other places. Yeah.

Sara 19:04

So I think this one is not true actually, because there's that, and then there's if you're doing Kickstarter, that's another way to do direct sales. And you can do a Kickstarter without any audience. It's easier, I think, if you have an audience, but you can do it with a small audience. But Kickstarter does bring people to you. If you can get your if you can start show that there's interest in your page, they bring more and more readers or I guess viewers to it. So that would be a way you could do direct sales with a small audience or no audience. It yeah, you could do that.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Yeah.

Myth Rapid Release Is Required

Sara 19:41

And you there are ways to do, even if you have a small audience, you if you use something where you just pay it, where you just have a single page, and you don't have to set up a whole store. You don't have to have a whole Shopify store. You might just do a single sales page for your offer, whatever it is. Yeah. So I think this one's busted. Myth busters. Yeah. That's right. Yes. All right. Myth number four rapid release is the only real way or the only way to make real money as an indie. So I think. No.

Jami 20:16

I was proof that wasn't true. Yes. Back when I was releasing. Yeah. They were both proof of that, I think. Yeah, we were both proof that wasn't true. And we know people now that don't rapid release and they're doing just fine.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Yeah.

Jami 20:30

Yeah. Yeah.

Sara 20:31

It you can use that model, but yeah. There seemed to be a philosophy for a while. That was the best way to do it, or that was the fast fastest. I mean, it is rapid release, but that was the fastest way to gain traction. And not necessarily true. You don't have to do that. You can be a slow releaser and or moderate pace. And it's fine. And readers will stick around. We're both examples of that. That they will stick around and wait for the next book and not forget you.

Jami 21:01

Like I just sent out that re-engagement campaign, and I think I had 64 unsubscribes off of a 15,000 more 15,000 person list with a really good open rate. It's like they're sticking around. So that's thank goodness. But yeah, I don't I just don't think that's true anymore. I also think that with AI and everything, that there's some indication that rapid release could hurt you. Could not hurt you, but you might not get the bump you used to get from rapid release. I know some people that are still rapid releasing like once a month in some of the genres like monster romance and stuff. They really but that genre really is good for that. They they they have the appetite for a book that comes from an author that releases once a month. But like mystery and thriller. And even women's fiction, they don't necessarily need a book in that.

Myth Ads Must Cost Thousands

Sara 22:04

I was never at the pace that some people were in rapid releasing, but I did have a time when I think I had one year where I released two books or three not three books within one year, but it was close. And I remember getting an email from a reader saying, Oh my goodness, you have another book out. I can't keep up. Yeah. And so that's definitely not. I have other things to do besides read, I guess, was the philosophy. So sometimes going you can go too fast and overwhelm the readers occasionally, depending on what genre you're in. Yeah. That was myth number four. Rapid release is the only way to make real money. And not true at all. Myth number five, you need to spend thousands on ads before you see results. So I'll let you take this one.

Jami 22:51

That's I don't believe that's true. I do think that ads are trickier than they were before. But I know people that do not spend a ton of money, but they see really good results because their targeting is really good. They've honed their process, they have great graphics, they have great copy. Yeah, so I don't believe that's true. It would be great that if you spent thousands, you would make thousands and thousands more, but I just don't know that's necessary right now. Yeah.

Sara 23:23

So how much do you think if you were running an ad or ads, how much do you think you have to spend per day? What's the floor or the minimum? Do you know?

Jami 23:32

Gosh, I don't know. I've spent as little as twenty dollars a day and as much as a thousand dollars a day, literally. So it depends. It depends on the ad, it depends on the type of ad, depends on if it's an Amazon ad or a Facebook ad. Yeah, it really just depends. I think caution and uh being conservative is warranted, especially right now, with that the ad pla ad platforms being what they are. And because I think we're in this transition of them trying to utilize AI, seeing how well that will do. Authors, I don't think it's just authors, I think it's all advertisers fighting against that a little bit because we want the control to target who we want to target, but they're taking that away from us a little bit, especially in Facebook ads. I think that I know people that are running Facebook ads that are doing great, they're still making money. I know people that are running Facebook ads that aren't really that they've really pulled back because they're the ads just aren't doing what they were doing before. So I do think it may be genre specific too.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Yeah.

Jami 24:47

I think some the ones that I've seen struggle the most recently are romance authors because that a lot of the target targeting was taken away, and we're having trouble not having men uh having our ads served to men, and men tend to click just out of curiosity, but not because they want to buy, and or they'll leave weird comments on your ad.

Sara 25:16

And then that's always it just logs things down because you don't want that interaction, and then you have to go in and block it or change things up.

Jami 25:24

And maybe here's the thought, and y'all, this is just off the top of my head. Do not put any a lot of stock in this, but I think it may be true. In fact, when five years ago, when I was running ads and doing so well with them five, six years ago, it was because romance was really, really in rom-com in particular was really a strong genre, and a lot of people were reading it. And now I think it's more romanticy and some of the other things, and but I and the people I hear whose ads are doing well are people who are writing in those genre that genre or the genres that are really still strong. Not that romance isn't, because it always is gonna be, but also romance is just flooded right now, yeah. So I don't know. I really I if I knew I would be way wealthier than I am right now.

Sara 26:21

That's true. We all would be if we could do that.

Jami 26:24

I'm in a lot of groups with a lot of people, it's about 50-50. Some people are having really good luck with ads, and some people are not, and so I think you just have to kind of tread lightly and be conservative. And if you find an ad that's working or a platform that's working, go all in on it and see what happens.

Sara 26:47

Yeah, I ran some ads for the first time I done it in a long time for the letters back in the fall. And I think that it was difficult, partly because of the time of year, it was lead up into Christmas, and that's ad prices are always higher then. But yeah, I had trouble with it. It wanted me to use the AI to run the ads, and I didn't want to use it because I didn't want my ads to be delivered to men. Because I tested it for I can't remember maybe like a week, and the clicks and sales that I got were from women. And so I was like, why waste my ads going to men? And eventually it wouldn't let it deliver the ad because it said because I kept turning everything off and I didn't have a high spend. And because I it said it didn't have enough volume to complete the, I forgot what it called it, but to complete analyzing the ad. And so therefore they wouldn't run it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Yeah.

Sara 27:42

And for small advertisers, that's just a challenge that you're gonna have to either find a way around or find some other way besides using ads. So I used Facebook ads, I ran some Pinterest ads, and those I didn't see any conversions from those, but it was interesting to see who clicked and you got some data, some analytics from that. I was trying to think, I hear people talk about Amazon ads. Do you hear anybody talking about Book Bub ads, Google, Reddit, anything else?

Jami 28:13

No, not really. Not really. I hear people talking about, hey, I might try these, but I haven't heard anybody having major success with them. You don't need major success. Maybe you just need a little bit of success over several different platforms. That can be a strategy too.

Sara 28:33

Yeah, kind of like the wide going wide, my wide income usually, all my retailers besides Amazon. If I put all those together, usually what I earn with that equals what I'm earning on Amazon.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Right.

Sara 28:48

So it's not one platform is going to be huge, but altogether it's a significant boost. So maybe it's the same way with ads. Yeah. If anybody is having great success with ads, let us know. Especially if they're not Facebook specific. We would love to talk to you. We'd love to hear what you're doing. See, I had another question since we're talking about or another thing that when you mentioned, oh, you mentioned romanticy is hot right now. And I feel romantic is hot and then cozy. Anything that's cozy, not necessarily cozy mystery. Cozy fantasy, cozy, cozy romantic. Yeah. So it's this divergence of I don't know if they're reactionary forces, you know, that people get tired of one thing and they bounce over to cozy and then maybe they go back, or it's two different things. Interestingly, I've heard two or three different people lately use the word zygeist. I know that the author update podcast, they have a whole zygeist section about how things are changing and the way people are feeling what they're searching out in their entertainment. But I do think it's interesting that people have mentioned that lately. These are not people who are related to that podcast, or I don't know if they listen to it or not. But I think it's interesting that people have mentioned that several times. I think things are shifting. And it's if you can capture which way it's going in your genre and get just a little bit ahead of it, you're probably better positioned for the future. Yeah. Absolutely.

Jami 30:19

Yeah, I mean, it it's a weird time right now, y'all. It's just weird, you know.

Sara 30:24

In so many ways, right?

Jami 30:26

So many ways. And I feel like if we just can write it out, keep writing your books, keep trying things. I don't think you should give up at all. I think that just, but you have to maybe iterate more than we used to have to.

Sara 30:44

And the people that have had success lately are not, it's not some technique that they're using. Oh, now I'm writing and releasing three books or five books and releasing. It's not something, not that it's not rapid release, but it's not a writing style. It's like they're going outside of publishing in many cases, and they're doing different things like Kickstarters. They're doing special editions and direct sales, you know, sort of combos of things that we hadn't seen maybe five years ago.

Jami 31:15

Or if you did those things, it was a here's my path. I'm gonna jump over here and do a Kickstarter, but then I'm gonna come back to this kind of tried and true path. Now the tried and true path is not as clear anymore. And so people are trying different things all at one time. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Sara 31:35

It's exhausting, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Yeah. It's like we're all in the jungle with a machete trying to find our path. We don't know which path we're on. Trying not to whack each other while we're at it.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

That's true.

Listener Feedback And Supporter Wrap

Sara 31:48

Yes. Okay, well, that was the fifth one. So I think we'll take a break here and we'll do the other half in the supporter episode. So that will be in the Substack, you'll be able to see that in the list of episodes. If you're on a podcast app, you can click the link to become a supporter and see it that way.

Jami 32:09

Yeah, and we'd love to hear your thoughts on this. If we're completely wrong or you think we're wrong, let us know. We decided to be a little more controversial. No, we don't that was suggested to us that we try to be more controversial. We're like, we're one, that's just not our nature. And two, we don't have the energy. We shouldn't have energy to be that. But if you think we're wrong, then that's fine. Let us know and we'll talk about it.

Sara 32:34

Yeah, let us know what you think and what your ideas are. And if you have suggestions on how to solve some of these problems, because each one of these things is sort of a problem that we face. How do you find people? How do you get your book visible? Yeah, how do you connect with your audience through ads? So if you have some solutions, let us know because we would love to hear it. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We'll wrap this up here for now and come over and find us in the supporter episode. And don't forget Vellum. They are our sponsor for this week, and that one will be in the show notes. And thanks everybody for listening. We appreciate it. Yeah, thank you.

Jami 33:12

Bye, everybody. I think I've snorted twice on this podcast, so you're welcome. Do you want that in or out? I don't care. At this point, I just do not care. I have no ego left.

Sara 33:29

Oh my goodness. Here, hold on just a minute. I have to put my page refreshed and I can't find something on my document. Hold on.