We've All Done It: Leadership Development Tips for New & Struggling Leaders

Discover Your Path:Rachel Burr's Insights on Transformation and Personal Growth

• Kimberly Benoit • Season 3 • Episode 8

Share episode

Work with Kimberly 1:1 to build stronger teams and lead with confidence.
--
In this episode, Kim sits down with Rachel Burr to discuss her transformative new book, "Butterfly Goo: The Down and Dirty Truth of Transformation." Dive into an enlightening conversation on personal growth, embracing change, and finding your unique path.

  • Rachel Burr introduces herself and shares her professional background as an executive coach.
  • The conversational, personal tone of Rachel's book and why she chose this approach.
  • The analogy of the caterpillar and butterfly in discussing transformation.
  • Challenges and misconceptions regarding transformation, including facing fears and self-awareness.
  • The concept of gremlins and understanding your gut instincts during personal growth.


Rachel BIO:
Rachel Burr is an executive coach, leadership consultant, and people expert known for her blend of insight, action, and humor. With over 20 years of experience in leadership development and human behavior, she helps executives and teams unlock their full potential by embracing their unique strengths and values. Rachel specializes in coaching leaders, facilitating team sessions, and guiding organizations toward high-performance cultures. She holds two master’s degrees in organizational development and clinical psychology, along with numerous certifications. Connect with Rachel on LinkedIn to learn more.



#Transformation #RachelBurr #ExecutiveCoach #ButterflyGoo #SelfAwareness #PersonalGrowth #Psychology #Leadership #EmotionalIntelligence #GutInstinct #InnerDialogue #Gremlins #FearOfChange #SunkCost #OpportunityCost #SupportSystem #Vulnerability #MessyJourney #JosephCampbell #SelfHelp #PersonalExperiences #EmotionalDecisions #KimberlyJBenoit #PodcastEpisode #BookRecommendation

To learn more about Kimberly J Benoit or how you can work with her, check out her website, kimberlyjbenoit.com, or find her on LinkedIn.

➡ NEXT STEPS

👋 Say hi on Instagram and and share your favorite takeaway from this episode in your stories. Be sure to tag @kimberlyjbenoit so I can say HI!

📖 Purchase a copy of We've All Done It: Getting Real About the Role We Each Play in a Toxic Workplace HERE!

📆 Book a call to discuss how we can work together.

😍 Loving the show? Hit subscribe/follow so you don’t miss out on more podcasting tips.


Have comments or questions about this episode, send them to podcast@kimberlyjbenoit.com.


Special thanks to Esplanade Studios for mastering support & Melissa Argyle Designs. Music by Denys Kyshchuk from Pixabay

#leadership #wevealldoneit #professionaldevelopment

Kimberly Benoit:

Get ready to dive into the world of transformation with a sprinkle of humor and a dash of butterfly magic. Today with Rachel Burr, we are going to unravel the sticky, gooey truth about change. Spoiler alert, it's not all about the emergence of the butterfly, but embracing the delightful chaos of becoming the best version of yourself. Grab your curiosity, maybe even a pin for those self-reflective exercises, and let's get messy on this adventure of growth and discovery. Welcome to, we've all done it, the podcast for leaders who get the work done, but find the people part of leading frustrating. I'm Kimberly Benoit, author, award-winning former corporate executive and leadership coach with over 20 years in the corporate world. I've seen it all. The good, the bad, and the downright messy. If you've ever avoided a tough conversation, played favorites without realizing it, or just wondered why is leading people so hard, you're in the right place because we've all done it. This is your space for real talk, real solutions and no judgment. Together, I'll share practical strategies to help you navigate workplace drama, build stronger teams. And lead with confidence. No more pretending, no more suffering in silence. Just honest, actionable leadership from someone who's been in your shoes. Are you ready to lead differently? Let's do this. Hey everybody. So today's episode is going to be a lot of fun because we are going to dig into the dirty, nasty, gooey parts of transformation. Um, today I'm really excited. We have Rachel Burr joining us today and we're going to talk about her book. So I'm going to give her a chance to introduce herself in a second and then really dig into not only just the book, but like some personal experiences about transformation. Um, so Rachel, thank you so much for being here.

Rachel Burr:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad to be here.

Kimberly Benoit:

I am. I am happy to have you as well. So tell the listeners and the viewers, since we got both going on, tell them a little bit about you. What are the most important things you want people to know?

Rachel Burr:

The most important things. Well, let's start with the things everybody actually talks about. So, Rachel Burr, I'm an executive coach and people expert. So, mostly I work with leaders. I work with their teams to help them really step into the best versions of themselves and The book itself is really about all of us as people stepping into the best versions of ourselves. But I like to say even in my work, leaders are people first. So we're all people that's we all bring that to our work or wherever we are. So I love that my backgrounds in psychology and organization development. So I get to bring all of that in terms of how people work, how we work together. And I get to bring that all to working with my clients.

Kimberly Benoit:

Uh, I was so happy when I met you, um, because so, I feel like so much of our. Kind of our backgrounds align. So, because I started in psychology and have done, took it in very different directions than you. But we somehow have ended up in the same place about writing books about how do we help people show up as a better version of themselves. Um, and from just different, very different angles though. And so, um, So first off, for people out there, you have to go get the book. It is great. And so I kind of wanted to start with the things I'm loving about the book, which are one, you created an opportunity to talk about a very tough topic. Transformation is not easy. Change is not easy, but you've done it in such a miraculous way where it's so conversational. And I felt like, I felt so seen because when I wrote my book, I wanted it to feel like a conversation. I didn't want it to feel like I was preaching at someone of like, this is what you do, you know, step one, step two, step three. That's not how self awareness and transformation happen. Um, so there's a graphic you have in there about how messy it is. And, um, so talk to me a little bit about why you chose to go with that tone.

Rachel Burr:

Well, first of all, anybody who knows me will tell you it's basically having a conversation with me. It's my voice. It's definitely my humor. So for anyone who's listening, this is a conversation with me. There is And when I do the audio, I will read it because nobody else can sound like this. And for me, that was a big piece of writing this book. There were books that I started to read where I could hear the author's voice. Before I thought, Oh, I have to write something very formal. I have to write something about coaching and business and very serious and transformation is serious. But one of the little clicks that I like to talk about in the books or the little awakenings that I had along the way to transformation along the way to writing this book was that I could use my voice. In fact, that was critical. People will say when they're writing a book, well, what can I say that hasn't already been said, and I'm like, probably nothing, but it's your voice. It's how you bring it. And the thing is. Our experience and how we talk about it can open it up to someone new who maybe hasn't been able to relate to that or hasn't seen themselves in that. So that's really important and that was a, that was a big aha moment and a driver for me to finally write this book.

Kimberly Benoit:

I, uh, I resonate with that. in the sense that I don't feel like there's a lot new out there. Um, and I, it's something I say with clients a great deal. It's not the, what it's the, how, so how we do things is what can differentiate. So much. And so I think for you, when you, you know, transformation is not new, but you're talking about maybe a how that will relate to somebody in a different way, our stories, people see what they need to see in other people's stories. And so I just really loved the how personal it felt. That it was a conversation. I love the exercises. So I have something very similar in my book, where it's like, I didn't want you just to sit there and read, like I wanted it to be an opportunity, you know, while you're in there, like rumbling around as if we're having a cocktail and discussing the most challenging things about being human and being a leader and whatever. How do we capture like lightning in a bottle? So in this moment, as you're in this thought and in these feelings, how can we maybe generate some insight. And so was that part of your thought about having that in there as well? Is that the people who are using this can kind of gain that insight from kind of that moment that you're with them?

Rachel Burr:

You know, it's funny. This book originally started off as a self help book and in my mind with narrative around my own life to support self help. And what happened along the way is it basically got flipped on its head, which really is part of the transformation. And Embracing that that mess in and of itself and being open to, you know, taking a hard turn or even a switch back along the way. As I was going through, it really, for me, is important that it's a choose your own adventure. So you can do whatever you want with this book. You can, you can try the exercises as you go through. There are self reflection questions. There are things to kind of think through. There's ways to take that out into your real life or where the wild things are, as I like to call it. If you just want to think about it and reflect and come back, I've got some takeaways at the end of the chapters, and you know what, if you just want to read it and you want to laugh at me and my mistakes and my mess, As you go through, then do that. It's totally up to you. And it's really important, I think, for transformation in this way. We get to choose when and how we're ready to do that. I'm not here to tell you you have to go through transformation or you have to engage with change. I'm here to give you a playground. So, you have a place that if you just want to start to mess around with your own mess, Yeah. And do that.

Kimberly Benoit:

I, like I said, I just loved it. There was so much about it. I was like, Oh, this feels so good. This feels so familiar. Um, and because I want to make sure, because I don't know if we've actually said the title of the book, I've alluded to it, but it's Butterfly Goo, I'm going to say glue, Butterfly Goo, um, The Down and Dirty Truth of Transformation.

Rachel Burr:

Yes.

Kimberly Benoit:

So let's talk about what transformation is. So, um, I think like when we say the words transformation, what does that mean for you?

Rachel Burr:

Well, I think a couple of things are really important. And let me just talk a little bit about how I came up with the butterfly analogy. First of all, it's not a new analogy. Again, nothing new. And it's, it's kind of that, when we think about transformation, it is one of the easiest metaphors or, you know, examples for us to really relate to. It's beautiful. It's, it's such a drastic difference. And therein lies the problem. We look at the butterfly as this beautiful thing, and it completely distracts us from the arduous nature of transformation, the reality of the step by step process that goes through it. So when you take the caterpillar and the caterpillar begins to spin, you know its cocoon, it goes into the cocoon and it completely dissolves well, mostly dissolves into this green gelatinous goo, and then it starts to rebuild itself into a butterfly. What's important is that the caterpillar takes everything it needs. into that cocoon to become a butterfly. It is not about turning it into something it's not. It already has that butterfly inside of it. It's about bringing out the best in, you know, in what it is. Well, one could argue that maybe caterpillars think they're the best. That's fine. Um, but for the transformational metaphor, we're going with butterfly. Yeah. And people make the mistake of Myself included when I say people, I'm a people. So this is a really, you know, representative example of my own experience, but we focus on the emergence when the butterfly comes out of the cocoon. They think that's the transformation. And it's not. That is the result of transformation. So for me, transformation is really about becoming the best of who we are, who we can be, based on the core of who we are. And we all have different, it is not about turning ourselves into something we're not. It's about really stepping in to who we want to be and the life we want to have.

Kimberly Benoit:

Hmm. I love the, the idea that transformation doesn't require you to take anything new. I

Rachel Burr:

mean, there'll be skills that you want to learn along the way. Yeah. There'll be things like that. But you don't have to fundamentally

Kimberly Benoit:

change, like you have the pieces and parts, like you have the raw elements in order to become a better version of yourself. You know, and I also, like, there's a part of me that thinks in this day and age of social media where everything, we're being bombarded with what we don't have, who we're not measuring up to. There's a, I feel like there's a strong externalization of in order to be better, I have to go get more things.

Rachel Burr:

Yes.

Kimberly Benoit:

Um, and so that part of what I love about your, your thesis or your approach to this is that the basic fundamentals are already there, you know, the, the work that has to happen isn't, is, is internal. It doesn't have to be necessarily a lot of external, um, additions or, you know what I mean? It's, it's, it's, I like that. That's a part of what I love was like, it's in you already.

Rachel Burr:

Yes.

Kimberly Benoit:

It's in you. It just needs to chrysalis. How do you say it? Chrysalis. We need to. It's a

Rachel Burr:

chrysalis.

Kimberly Benoit:

And I, it's funny, just

Rachel Burr:

as an aside, I use the term cocoon and my brother's an entomologist and he assures me that cocoons are actually for moths and a chrysalis is for a butterfly. And I said, yeah, I'm going to stick with the analogy that's more familiar, even though he says. Moths are much cooler.

Kimberly Benoit:

That's such a brother conversation. I've had my brother on the show a couple of times. I love him to death. And our conversations usually have some kind of random thing like that in it. So I can appreciate that tremendously. So. So with that in mind, when you think about transformation in your experience and in writing this book, what I'm hearing you say is there's no right or wrong way to transform.

Rachel Burr:

There are more painful ways. Um, and, and I, I would say that we're going to go through mess. We're going to take paths that aren't ours initially. And some of us, myself included, stick to that path for a very long time, even though it's not ours. Yeah. Because It's scary. It's scary to get off the path, especially if you don't know where else to go. You don't know what else you might do. And that's part of the mess. The important part is, and I quote Joseph Campbell in the book, but the idea is that if there is a path all really like already laid out. It's not your path. I truly believe we have to build our path. People will say, I have to find it. You might find the start. You might find a foothold, but we, we build our path. And it's really important for us to embrace that. Just like you're saying on social media. We look at these curated lives, right? Other people's life, and it makes, it looks so easy. It's like, oh, that's what I should be. That's what, you know, I'm missing out. I, my life isn't good enough. I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough. I'm not enough. It is such a horrible, toxic conversation that we're having with ourselves. And I talk about gremlins in the book. Mm hmm. Right? And it is so important for us to fundamentally understand that who we are and the path we take and the goo that we go through is critical to our transformation. There's no going, you know, the caterpillar has to go through the goo and it's not just a messy byproduct. It's the journey and it's how we get to the other side.

Kimberly Benoit:

Well, and I also think none of us are the same. Right? And so transformation will look different for each of us because the, the pieces and parts of ourselves, even if, I mean, like, look at twins. They're even, like, identical twins are not the same. They're not going to have the same likes, desires, all the, all these things that, So it shouldn't be assumed that we're supposed to have the same thing as somebody else. You know, I used to teach this little class about, with like new, younger, like our younger gen, um, employees around the idea of whose ladder are you climbing.

Rachel Burr:

Right.

Kimberly Benoit:

And so, um, and it goes back to kind of what you said, if the road, the map is already there, then that you didn't create that. That's not your creation. Somebody is creating that for you. You are serving someone else's agenda. You are following what someone else thinks is a good career path for you. So where are you like, so. But where is what you want in there? Does that align with the development you want to have? The career you want to have? The life you want to have? Um, because they're not divided. These are all merged together. And so I, I agree with you completely on that. Is that there's almost like we're trying to make people feel like they have more, like you chose this. Well, and the truth is there's so much that's already chosen for us.

Rachel Burr:

If we're

Kimberly Benoit:

not paying attention,

Rachel Burr:

you

Kimberly Benoit:

know, it's how do you advocate for yourself? How do you, how do you, you know, do you know yourself well enough to say, here's what I want and here's what I don't want?

Rachel Burr:

Yeah, that's a huge part of it. Knowing yourself enough to know what you want and don't want.

Kimberly Benoit:

I mean, cause even that, like when you think about. In my mind, when the constant evolution, so you call it, you know, transformation, I, and I laugh because I actually was just having this conversation yesterday and I said, I just feel like I've lived a lot of lives. It's almost like different chapters. In a book, right? And so, but each chapter has so much growth that builds on the next chapter. So it's kind of like this ever, this wonderful novel called Kim's Life. Um, but the truth of it is nobody else is living that. And so, to your point, it's like how are I get to choose what I want to do next. I get to choose to say what does that next chapter look like. And, you know, when I was younger, I probably let other people dictate that a whole lot more because I thought they were smarter. I thought they knew better. Um, I thought that people had my best interest at heart. And maybe they did. But there's always an agenda if you're not the one. Creating that map

Rachel Burr:

well and other people can only tell you what they already know right and it comes from their experiences and their life lessons and your point best intention, but that's not your path. I mean, yes, can you take some advice that could be good for you when it makes sense. Ignore the advice that really doesn't and you never know it may turn out to be the right it may turn out to be the wrong but the problem is we do tend to default to oh, they're an expert. They must know and I talk about that in the book. There were many times that I thought, well, they must know what they're talking about. Oh, when I hear that in my voice now, I'm not thinking they might, but that's a little red flag. If I'm telling myself, oh, yeah. They must know what they're talking about, even though my experience, my gut, my all says, I don't think that's a good idea. It's important, at least I talk about the fact that we make a lot of decisions based on emotion. In fact, my understanding is most of our decisions are actually based on emotion. And then we use facts to, you know, justify it and think we're being objective. That gut instinct is really important and people, I think, I'm not sure what people think it is, but the way I look at it is that, you know, we have this conscious thought process that we use and then our brains are working in the background, the kind of ticking and tying and putting things together outside of our consciousness. And so. I think that gut is really tapping into the place that doesn't quite yet have access to our conscious awareness. And it doesn't mean our gut is right. It means that our gut and our conscious decision making process need to have a conversation. Ooh.

Kimberly Benoit:

So, so, so, so what is happening then? Like that feeling, you know,'cause you know, you talk about,'cause that's a big thing going with your gut. Mm-hmm Um, you know, people saying like, so. Tell me more. I'm fascinated by this. Like, I'm like, oh wait, this is, I didn't, I wasn't thinking about this one. Um, So what role do you think your gut feel, like, what do you think, is that a good thing? Is it a, like, is it just go explore more when your gut says it's good versus bad?

Rachel Burr:

Yeah, I definitely think it's a go explore more because sometimes our gut is wrong. Sometimes our gut is right. It is not the only one making the decision. So it's important to be able to explore that and and being able to step back and say, Okay, what's going on? Because So, um, our gut is tapped into that emotional base and emotions are data. They are telling us something. Now, it may not be a clear message, but it's, it's, you have to stop because it's trying to tell you something. And one of the things I talk about in the book is All these red flags that I ignored for so long or push them away specifically because I didn't want to listen to what my gut was telling me. I wanted to stay in what I thought was an objective intellectual realm and it wasn't. I was able to justify all sorts of things and all sorts of decisions that were not there. The right decisions for me, even though my gut was screaming in the background, but I just kept pushing it down further and further and further until one day, my gut is like, this is it. You need to listen to me. We're not doing this anymore because you're miserable. And this is whatever you think is working is not working. So we got to figure out what will work.

Kimberly Benoit:

That's so funny. I mean, I think about first off, Amen, sister, been there, done that, got the medical bills. Um, I think it's so funny that I like that you talk about this, um, simply because I think, and I wonder if it's more of like a type a ish personality where you will overanalyze and over rationalize. Like, when, when you, when the gut is telling you one thing, how you want to try to outthink the emotion. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm going to outlogic this. Like, I just had that Mexican last night. That's not what's going on. Like, or something. Like, it's just, but we try to out Strategize our, what our, our body's natural reaction is telling us. Um, why are we so stubborn? Like, why, why do we fight it so hard?

Rachel Burr:

Because we're scared. We started off this conversation with change is hard. Even change we choose is hard. And our comfort zones are just that. They are comfortable, even when they're uncomfortable. And I talk about the comfort, we're comfortable in our discomfort. You know, people talk about the devil we know versus the devil we don't. There's a reason we have such great expressions and ways to talk about this because it is ubiquitous. It is part of being human. And if we're not consciously pushing outside that comfort zone, it is comfortable, it is, you know, pretty solid, it can be miserable. And I talk about, I talk about the difference between the two. I think change happens when the fear of the unknown is finally dwarfed by a looming dread of the same. It's almost like the, you know, the old, the physical scales where you have the little plates and you can think about for a long time, the fear of the unknown outweighs and you can just. Feel the little, you know, the additional pieces going on that dread of the same, that dread of the same until finally something clicks. And that, and it's been, again, it's been that transformational process. It's been those little clicks all the way to that point, but there's some kind of tipping point.

Kimberly Benoit:

Oh, there's a thought coming to mind. Um, because I think something else that sometimes holds people back from transformation is, um, is the idea of sunk cost. Oh, absolutely. Right? Well, I've gone, and I thought about this when I was reading about, even though you didn't say this in the book, but I was thinking like how I, in my life that has kind of played out is I've invested so much time, so much energy. I know this is probably not right, but I want to finish this out because I started it. And whether it's because I don't want to feel, look, somebody think I'm a failure. I don't want someone to think I'm a quitter, um, or that I'm not good enough. To finish XYZ out, um, how much sunk this, this concept of sunk cost, like I've already put so much in, I need to write it out, like, I wonder how, for how many people that plays a factor, so it's not necessarily the fear of change, but it's this other, like the, the trans, they know the transformation needs to happen, the change needs to happen, but it's this other weird little element of like how we convince ourselves Well, I can just write it out till the end. Like, it's not that much longer. I can do another year of this. And then, you know, cause then I will have met whatever little imaginary benchmarks we've created for ourselves. Um, I don't know. Do you, in your experience, Is that a factor that you see that sometimes holds people back from embracing their transformation?

Rachel Burr:

Oh, yeah. I mean, I talk about in the book, you know, I was like eight years into trying to be a clinical psychologist. I mean, it is at that point. It's like, well, what else am I going to do? And people think I'm a failure, which, by the way, is fear. And, you know, all of these things and, oh, I just have to get through this. I just have to do this. I just have to do that. The sunk opportunity, you know, the sunk cost. What about the opportunity cost? Yeah. What are you giving up in that time? What are you losing out on that you can't see? We can see what we're going to lose out on if we quit. And by the way, sometimes we have to quit. And I talk about that too. It's like, if you want to do, if you're doing X and you want to do Y, you may have to quit X to do Y. And that is really hard, that piece of it. And to your point, we've been doing this for so long. And I think also we kind of delude ourselves that if we can just get through this part of it, then it'll be good then we'll be happy. And yet there's all this opportunity cost with in that time, what could you have been doing? What could you have done that would have actually gotten you someplace you want to go, instead of just Getting you mired deeper and deeper in that gooey swamp of, you know, feeling stuck.

Kimberly Benoit:

Yeah, I, I, I, you're right. It is a ton of fear. I like that you call them the gremlins, right? Because it's basically, it's this narrative. That, like, will do everything possible to kind of keep you where you are or convince you of something that you don't want to do. I love that you call them the Gremlins because it feels so very, it feels very accurate for fighting the narrative that's not necessarily real. Um. Oh. And it's, it's so funny because sometimes like in, in my circumstance, when I finally came out on the other side of the narrative and just decided to make the change, it was so shocking to me how supportive people were. Yeah. It was the opposite of what I, the Gremlin, or this negative narrative I had in my head actually was. It was very different. And I just remembered thinking, I wish I'd have known I had this kind of support. Like, how did I not see it before? And I think that's part of the, the, the Gremlin component. Is like, I think we don't always see what's there because our stories may only have us looking for the pieces that validate the fear. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I just remembered thinking on the other side of it being, wow, well this, look at all this support. Like everybody else knew I was on the wrong path.

Rachel Burr:

Oh, yeah.

Kimberly Benoit:

And they didn't come out and say anything because they wanted to support me because they thought what I was doing was what I wanted. And that they thought they were, they thought they were supporting me in the right way. And so, I don't know, in a certain way, I feel like that has been a huge evolution of like, how do I show support to people?

Rachel Burr:

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Kimberly Benoit:

you think, not just thinking about yourself, but knowing that this exists for every single person. We all have the gremlins, the narrative. How do we show up and support people, particularly when we know that they are maybe not in the right place themselves?

Rachel Burr:

Yeah, I think, and by the way, gremlins is not a new term for me. I mean, I think it's gremlins, inner critic, all of it. in the book. I do, yeah, it's kind of the inner dialogue. I say not monologue, dialogue. You're actually talking to these gremlins. And, and just an aside to this, and this may be just me, but I think a lot of times. We're wired for threat, human beings, we're much more likely to see threat than we are the positive stuff. You know, it's kept us alive for thousands of years. That's great. Some of those gremlins I think are very old, at least mine are. So somewhere in the, you know, in my own history, something happened and I took something away from that and said, okay, I'm not going to let that happen again. The problem is, one, I may have taken a, you know, a much more dramatic step based on that situation instead of stepping in and saying, okay, wait, what did I learn here? What did I, you know, as opposed to trying to get as far away from that situation as possible. Second, I'm an adult now. I mean, most of the time. I'm physically an adult now. It doesn't mean that's true anymore. You know, I mean, there's so many things that were maybe dangerous for us, dangerous for us as kids. But as an adult, we have the skills, the capabilities, the awareness to deal with things differently. And in terms of, you know, the staying small, the feeling like What if we fail? What are people going to think of us? You know, the imposter syndrome. I mean, again, we have a term for it because it's there.

Kimberly Benoit:

Yeah.

Rachel Burr:

And because it feels like really good at kind of keeping up the image of being fun. You know, successful or even competent. And we don't want to let that down. We don't want people to find out our secret air quotes secret. So we don't reach out. We don't ask for help. So we don't want to make ourselves vulnerable. And so the gremlins become even more powerful because we We push all that into the dark and they're like mushrooms. It just festers in the dark. It just thrives. And it's really, the gremlins do not want you to take this into the light because then you're going to find out that it's kind of a bunch of BS. I mean, yeah, there are things that are, that are going to be embarrassing. There are things where we're going to fall or fail, or unless you call failure, you know, just not getting up again. There are going to be all of these things. And most of them don't kill us. You know, if I jump out of an airplane and I don't pull my chute, probably going to kill me. Um, yes. So, and I would say too, you know, you were saying other people could see that you were on the wrong path. I've definitely had some of that. I also have had it where I am such a master at the illusion that nobody had any idea. Everybody thought, Oh, I'm, I'm this. And it's funny. I think I have finally gotten to the place where I am the person that people already thought I was. I think one of the best things we can do, because we don't always know who's struggling. We know when people are struggling. I think one thing that I wanted to do with this book was You know, open myself up, you know, be vulnerable with people say, here's my mess, right? It's like this illusion that it's not my experience if it's your experience with transformation and you were born a butterfly. Well, good for you. But being able to see yourself in this, you know, and again, in the privacy of your home reading this book and saying, Yeah, me too. We break that down. It makes transformation more understandable. It makes it more accessible, and therefore it makes it more achievable. This whole myth that we have bought into as a society, but a whole humanity, species, whatever, it's, it's destructive. It's not even delusional. It's destructive to us engaging. And so I think One of the key things, and especially for us as coaches, that we do is this idea of listening, not only listening to what people say, but listening to what they don't say, you know, really being in conversation with them and yeah, somebody, you know, like me at certain phases of my life, master at the illusion. It's kind of the old Wizard of Oz, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And yet other there are things that happen, and As a society, as, as humans, especially in this fast paced world, we're not good at listening. I think one of your previous podcasts, um, the guest was talking about, you know, listening and how important that is and honestly, how difficult. So sometimes we have to listen very, yes, yes, we have to listen very closely or pay attention. And sometimes we may really not see when people are in trouble, we can, we need to do the best we can.

Kimberly Benoit:

Yeah, it's and I it's in great part, I believe, because our attention spans have gotten shorter are, um, and it's not just for kids. It's for adults to, um, I think it's, it's the it's a part of it is a learned skill. And how do you attend to the world around you? But I would agree with that. I You know, huge components throughout my career and in part why I've been successful is it's, it's not only same thing you said, being able to be very aware of what people said versus what they didn't say, and then did their words actually match like with what they actually said? Does it make sense? Look at the picture in front of you. If somebody says they're happy, does the affect match? The statement. Yeah. No, I'm really happy. Well, you don't sound very happy, and you don't look very happy. So help me understand, like, where's the, where are the actual visual cues of joy? Yes. Because they're not there. And so, um, you know, and yeah, so I just, I find it interesting, because one, I think we can lie to ourselves, and two, I often think about how do we help show up for others. Um, just because, you know, our community is so important and all of us are stuck in our own goo, if you will. And so being able to be that supportive element and being able to ask good questions and pay attention to the people around you and, and, and also I think just also being open to like if someone approaches you and asks. And coming from a genuine place, not necessarily a nosy place, you know, manipulative place, but if people are actually like checking in on you, then there may be something for you to look at because you might not be seeing yourself.

Rachel Burr:

Exactly. You may not even be seeing

Kimberly Benoit:

yourself. The lack, the ability to lack some self awareness. And we all do it. I mean, I think, I think we all try to hide the things we don't want other people to see about ourselves as best we can, but sometimes it just kind of ekes through.

Rachel Burr:

Yeah. And to be fair, it's a continuum, right? It's, it's this whole, I'm, I'm fine, which is funny, just as an aside, I have a really good friend who, uh, came to the U. S. from Germany, and, Initially, she was, you know, talking to somebody just, you know, I don't know, a stranger or a clerk at a store, and they said, Oh, how are you today? And you know, for the rest of us, like, Oh, I'm fine. How are you? I'm fine. And it's just this completely nothing like fluff of pleasantry. She misunderstood. She thought they actually cared. So she responded. So they care. You know, how sad is that we've gotten so used to that fluff. And that's it. It's just, yeah, the caring. I honestly have forgotten your question. I got so caught up in that.

Kimberly Benoit:

Oh no, I was just laughing about like how, like how you show up for somebody else, like in the idea that if someone comes to you and expresses, like basically if the facade is falling and you aren't aware that the facade has fallen, you know, if there is, if there are people in your life showing up. Um, with concern, genuine concern and care that that may be an opportunity to evaluate. The story you're telling yourself and what you're doing and why, and really like ask some deep questions about what you're doing, why are you doing it, and is this where you're really supposed to be?

Rachel Burr:

Yeah. And you know what, I think some people are scared to engage, especially when it's really big stuff. Yeah. They don't know what to say. And so they don't say anything. And I, I've had things like that in my life. And you know, sometimes the best thing you can say is, I don't, I don't know what to say. I'm here. I am here with you. I am willing to sit with you in this goo. I, I don't know the answer, but I'm here and that's it. That's all you have to say. But people get so afraid of saying the wrong thing. Or my favorite is people will say something that makes them feel better. Like, Oh, you know, this is just part of the challenge. This is this or you know what? That happens to me too. You know, I, my father, I hope he doesn't care that I'm sharing this. He has Parkinson's. And so there are, you know, pieces about memory and things that are very different for someone with Parkinson's than even just our normal aging process. And he'll say he's struggling with this and somebody will want to make him feel better and say, Oh, me too, blah, blah, blah. And I, I know I've done that with him and he was, we talked about, he's like, that actually makes me feel more isolated. That makes me feel more alone because you're, you're pushing me away. You, you don't understand. And so when you don't know what to say. Don't worry about what you say. Just worry about what you do. Be there for them. Especially, I guess, when it's big and scary.

Kimberly Benoit:

Yeah, I think sometimes it's just how you show up. Like I said, it doesn't have to be the what. It just has to be the how. Just being there and saying, I'm here if you want to talk. You don't have to have an answer at all.

Rachel Burr:

Yeah.

Kimberly Benoit:

critical and huge, and, and just knowing that you have someone that's willing to hold your hand through the goo.

Rachel Burr:

is huge. Huge. Huge. And yeah, and we, one of the things that I talk about, you know, when you get through You still need to figure out your path. You still have to be the one leading your way, but it doesn't mean you can't take a whole crew of people with you. You can take friends, you can take family, you can take therapists, you, you build your own village. You are still choosing your path, you are still building your path, but you don't have to do it alone. Correct.

Kimberly Benoit:

Well, I am, I am have loved this conversation with you. Um, I, I genuinely am so grateful our paths have crossed. I am so excited about this book. Um, I think this is going to be really good for people. I, and I love that. Like I said, it's a huge topic, um, but it's, you've written. An amazing piece of work that just is so approachable. And, uh, I value that because I know how hard it is to do that. And what it requires to put yourself personally on paper about something that is really difficult. So, I just can't say thank you enough for doing it. Um, like I said, once you've become an author, it changes your perspective about, like, everything. You're just like, I know. How hard this had to be. Um, and so I want to make sure to not only just say thank you, but like remind readers like get out there and support Miss Rachel Burr. Um, any final thoughts before we end the show today?

Rachel Burr:

No, I'm so, well, yes, maybe, but I, I've so enjoyed, first of all, the conversation and. the ability for us to have that very approachable, very real conversation. I feel like so many conversations in our lives aren't real. I mean, they're verbally they're just not real. And I hope I do hope that this book is something where People feel they can see themselves. Again, my path is not going to be their path and that is not the message to take away. But when you resonate with pieces of it because you see yourself, in those experiences in your own way, in your own unique story. And if that helps you feel comfort, if it helps you feel energized, if it helps give you courage to step on that first step of the path you're going to build, And I am,

Kimberly Benoit:

well, just so you know, we're going to have links to the book in all the show notes. Um, so please, please go out and support, buy it for somebody, even if you don't think you need it, buy it for somebody else that you clearly know does, because we all know somebody that does. Um, and I just want to say thank you again for being on the show, um, love to have you on again at some point because I have a feeling we could talk about a lot of different topics and the ways we can go here. Um, but just thank you so much. I genuinely appreciate the time. Thank

Rachel Burr:

you,

Kimberly Benoit:

Kim. I've got two things before I let you go. One. If you've ever gotten any value from the show, please leave a five star review. It really helps and absolutely makes my day. The second thing is, if you have any thoughts you'd like to share with me, please shoot me an email at podcast@kimberlyjbenoit.com. I'd love to hear from you. All right, see you in the next episode. I.