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Buying Tampa Bay
Buying Tampa Bay
The Virtue of Home Ownership
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What happens to our character when we own property? Does the responsibility of homeownership make us different people? In this thought-provoking season premiere, we're diving into "The Soul of Homeownership" – exploring why real estate matters far beyond its financial benefits.
We challenge the growing sentiment that renting is superior to owning by examining the deep moral and character-building aspects of property ownership. From the discipline that comes when there's no landlord to call for repairs to the community bonds formed when neighbors help each other with projects, homeownership shapes us in profound ways that renting simply cannot.
Drawing from their experiences as real estate professionals, fathers, investors, property managers and now college professors, Chase and Peter contrast the American democratized approach to homeownership with Europe's multigenerational property legacies. They discuss how owning property connects us to our communities, creates wealth that transcends generations, and even reflects our personal values to those around us.
The conversation reveals that real estate isn't just America's biggest wealth builder – it's America's greatest character builder. When we accept the responsibility of maintaining and improving our property, we develop virtues that extend into every area of our lives. Our homes become physical manifestations of who we are and what we value.
Whether you're currently a homeowner, aspiring to buy your first property, or simply interested in the deeper aspects of real estate, this episode will transform how you think about the place you call home. Subscribe now and join us for a season of exploring the moral, ethical, and spiritual dimensions of property ownership.
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Introducing the Soul of Homeownership
Speaker 1Welcome to Season 3 of the Buying Tampa Bay Podcast. In this first episode, chase and I will be discussing the virtues of homeownership. There are great moral reasons why real estate is important, and all kinds of good comes to those who own real estate. The ownership of land not only builds up excellent virtues within your character, but it contributes to the greater stability of society and to our cultures. It presents us as reliable and dependable citizens, and it's a storehouse of wealth unlike almost anything else, and it has the ability to well outlast us and the lives that we live and to spread our legacy multi-generationally.
Speaker 1So there's been a strong impetus in the last 10 years for people to disparage homeownership, to suggest that a renter lifestyle is the more attractive way of living, and I understand why this has happened, because it's certainly the case that it's more expensive than ever to enter the housing market, but just because it's more expensive doesn't mean it shouldn't be one of the top goals in your life personally, and so hopefully, our episode today will tee up the concept of the virtue of homeownership and that throughout the season, you'll stay with us as we talk about all the things that owning a home does for your character and for your soul, and so our first episode really our season we're referring to as the soul of home ownership, and this first episode is about the virtue of being a homeowner. I hope you enjoy our conversation and I look forward to being with you throughout the season. Okay, well, chase, welcome to season three of the Buying Tampa Bay podcast. We've been doing this for a long time now.
Speaker 2Yes, yeah, man, it's been a long break, though Glad to get back in the saddle here.
Speaker 1Well, why don't you tell our listeners some of what you've been doing over the break, so they can be up to speed on what you and I are spending some of our time doing, at least?
Speaker 2Well, it's been a wild ride. I know we both kind of jumped into somewhat of a second career over the past year, becoming college professors, right. So we've been involved in that for at least the last semester and some prep throughout the summer, and we're beginning to start another semester at that, teaching business classes over at Florida College, which is really stimulating and a great opportunity for us and the ability for us to take a lot of what we've learned and some of what we profess here on this podcast and disseminate it to students of all ages. So really excited about that continued opportunity. Yeah, as though we didn't have enough to do.
Speaker 1This is another iron to add to the fire, but it has been stimulating, and you know, it's occurred to me in recent months that we're living in a very interesting intersection of disciplines at this point, you and I, and so it's probably worth sharing with our listeners where that is.
Speaker 1You know so we've spent. Of course, if they're familiar with our background, they know that we had careers out of real estate prior to joining the real estate sector, and so we have professional experience in the consulting and the banking sectors. And then, of course, we've spent many years now in the real estate sector, primarily in property management and investment properties, but also in residential housing. So we've done that for quite some time now. We also are now college professors, and so that's an interesting overlay that allows us to take some of our technical expertise and figure out how to make it academic and communicate what it is, what the essence is of what we do. And then, of course, we're both fathers of children who are getting ready to go to college for the first time. So congratulations on that. You've at least got one almost out the door.
Speaker 2Yeah, a big milestone, right Huge.
Speaker 1Most of us are celebrating right?
Speaker 2Yes, Nice trip across Europe for three weeks to give our kids the best send-off possible.
The Discipline of Ownership
Speaker 1Yeah, well, that was wonderful and lots of fun. So well, Season three. We want to make it a little bit special and, because of some of these overlays and interactions, I thought I'd like to spend a lot of our time this season talking about really what is what we would like to call, I think, the soul of home ownership, and so we're going to be addressing a lot of the macro topics of real estate. As it relates to things like real estate as a moral imperative, it's not just that we all want to live in a nice home or we want to get rich from housing. That might have been this really basic and immature desire early on in life about owning real estate and owning a home.
Speaker 1But now that we've been about that for a while, I think our perspectives have evolved to say that owning real estate is more than just something you do to add to your resume or your portfolio. But there's a moral imperative behind that and we talk about things, or we want to talk about things this semester, like ownership of a home or a real estate parcel or real estate in general, as a part of your identity, about something that reflects your values in a real way, maybe even more macro than that, just how critical it is that people actually own homes. I mean, what does it do to society when its citizens own real estate versus when the majority of the citizenry are renters? And so we want to hit on subjects like this, I think, throughout this season. So talk to me a little bit about your just kind of your overriding philosophy, on what you think about that, and you know why is it even important. Do you think that we're addressing these kinds of matters in our podcast this season?
Speaker 2Well being that we've been in the property management business for a couple of decades now. I think we both know very well as anyone else who's been in that industry does, the difference between the ownership mentality and the renter mentality in the game, your outlook on things, your level of responsibility as you alluded to before your moral imperative to be a good steward of the things that you own comes to the forefront, and it changes how you look at things and changes how you make decisions in your life. And so I think that's kind of what we're talking about here this season is that difference between an ownership mentality and a renter mentality.
Speaker 1So there's this kind of philosophy that I'm thinking as it relates to the discipline that comes about through our ownership of properties. I think about what it was like the first time I bought a home and how, although I wasn't particularly, you know, home, and how, although I wasn't particularly, you know, unhandy, I had never in my life repaired a toilet until I owned a home. I had never done anything with an air conditioning unit in my house. I had never fixed anything broken around my home. It's like, you know, if there was something broken, either my dad would do it or it wouldn't even get done Right, or he'd call a handyman or repairman to get it done. And that was so common.
Speaker 1But there were so many things, so many disciplines that just didn't even happen in my life until I took that primary step of owning a home. And well, so, in the absence of ownership, to motivate that level of discipline, I don't know what does? I have three kids and I try to be very purposeful in helping them get to work around the house, but it's just not the same, is it? Because if they're at school and the air conditioning breaks, I can't wait around for them to get home and teach them how to fix it. I need to get that fixed right away, and so there's a discipline that comes only through owning a home. That just doesn't seem to happen through any other mechanism.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think that's right. I've got three tenants living in my house too, and me and my wife are constantly trying to spur on this mentality of taking responsibility. Like you are an owner, right Not to just kind of, you know, ride on the coattails of what everyone else is doing for you. You know, it's so easy to be like, hey, the light bulb's out in my closet or, you know, in the bathroom or the toilet's clogged, you know, and someone else is going to rush in and fix it for you, but you don't learn anything right.
Speaker 2You don't learn how to solve some of the simple problems of life, and housing shelter is one of the fundamental needs of life, and I feel like, as I think we're going to address this season, that people should understand how a home works, how housing works, how to fix minor things, how to be responsible and be a good steward, and there are so many of these things that you can do on your own. So many of these things my kids could learn how to do, but I've got to force them to do it. I've got to be there and take a teachable moment and make that happen, and sometimes that's hard to do because that does require discipline. It requires discipline on my part to teach my kids that, just like it would require discipline on the part of someone who doesn't own a home right now to step into that role and actually be a good steward of an asset that they decide to own.
Speaker 1You know, while you've been talking, I've been thinking about all the examples I know of people who don't do this right, the homes that I've been in where the owners of those homes, even if they own a home, have not yet developed the discipline of ownership, right, the level of attentiveness to problems that we're talking about right here. Sometimes I'm inclined to think, well, it's money. They don't have enough money to make the repairs that they need to make. But I'm not sure. It's just that I think, even though you might own a home, there is an additional level of drive and uh stewardship that comes into play for those, uh, for those who you see owning homes as responsible, disciplined owners, which is really what we're trying to inspire people to be.
Speaker 1You don't just want to buy a home and then be just like a passive owner of that home. You want to be an excellent steward of it. Because if there is a leak dripping under your sink and you fix that right away by tightening the P-trap or by putting some more plumber's putty around the drain, the problem costs what? $5 if you've got to buy new plumber's putty, but if that drip drips through the plywood for a long period of time and rots out the base of the sink and that drip becomes an actual leak which eventually floods your floor. It's thousands of dollars of repairs. So it's a totally different mindset to realize that a problem caught early on is cheap and fixable. But conflict avoided is conflict magnified, right, or a problem magnified. And so you've got to get on these problems right away and be a disciplined, excellent steward of your ownership.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I think one of the concepts we tell investors this and I teach this to my students in my real estate investment class at the college is that one of the most important things in any kind of asset ownership is to have a team, and I think I've got a team. I can't fix everything in my house. I've recently been having conversations with some of the guys at church that are doing some of their own DIY remodel stuff and they've used teams of guys from church to come over and help them. That all have specialties or expertises in different areas to get the project done. And that's part of the discipline too. Right Is developing relationships with people that can be on your team and help you steward your asset and then have the discipline to be able to bring them together to try and knock out a project that needs to get done at your house. So all of that works together. But I think team is very important, right.
Building Community Through Homeownership
Speaker 1Yeah, I love that idea, you know, because if you have, if you now have, a home and that home is too much for you, that job is too much for you to do on your own, then what choice do you have, right? Well, you can dig deep and pay for it all yourself and kind of outsource it, or you can do what you've described. And what does that force us to do? That creates for us community, right? So the team that you've described there is now community, a community of men or a community of people that you know, who can then come and rally to support each other's needs when those needs arise.
Speaker 1So it's not even that you're paying out lots of money, it's that you're willing to serve that friend of yours who's got a problem in their life, and now they're willing to serve you when you've got a problem in your life. And what a beautiful picture that is. And that kind of community does not happen when all you're doing is renting a house because you're just going to call the landlord when there's a problem. And isn't there a beauty in that kind of synergy, that kind of supportiveness, that kind of civic growth that happens when people learn to depend on each other in just the right way. They depend on each other because they're willing to be servants to one another. And then, when everyone's willing to serve, then you kind of have a mindfulness of dependence as well, because you know that that equity you're building through your service will result in something good for you one day as well dependency, mentality, right, this almost like entitlement wave that has come over this country in some ways.
Speaker 2That wasn't there. At least I didn't see it 25, 30 years ago in our generation, as we were coming up through high school and college and becoming professionals. And there is such a difference in your outlook on life, how you view people, how you view things, how you view responsibility. When you have to actually get things done, when you're responsible for them, when you have to take ownership of the problem and come up with a solution, you can't just pick up the phone and call someone.
Speaker 2And I think about all the commercials and I don't see a lot of them, but most all the commercials that I see when I'm watching TV or that pop up in my newsfeed. They're all about hey, don't do it yourself, just call us. Well, that's expensive, right, that's the expensive part of it, calling other people to get things done, unless it's your landlord, and he's got to do it because he's obligated because of your lease. It because he's obligated because of your lease. And so learning about this stuff, creating the community, being a disciplined steward of a home is just such a valuable thing to develop inside yourself throughout your, especially your young life.
Speaker 1Yeah, I was thinking while you were talking about the whole, the old home depot slogan. Now it's been several slogans ago, but it was you can do it, we can help. That was the idea, and, of course, the whole ethos of a home improvement store is about. It's a DIY store is what they used to call it. You do it yourself, right. And that's not the same message behind Thumbtack, which is you're walking into your front door and your door is sticking. Well, you should call a pro and pay a lot of money to help them, help make your door not stick anymore. Instead of you do something about that, you take responsibility for the things in your life and do it more cheaply than that vendor can do it, and be proud of your accomplishments because you did something with the skill that God has given you. And so there's a totally different message there.
Speaker 1I think it's a message that our young people absolutely need to hear, because I'm not sure this training has taken place in the home about the virtue of self-service in this regard, the virtue of being independent enough to do it yourself. There's been way too much support and provisioning for the well, really the passive fulfillment of needs. And now what we're saying. What I think we want to say in this season is that young person, mature person, old person, you can do it and people like us can help. But your communities can help. Everyone in your church can help. Potentially, your neighbor has the tool that you need to get that job done If you just open the door and ask him. And if he doesn't, why don't you be the neighbor who has the tool that your neighbor needs to get the thing fixed? Talk about a cohesive experience for your community. If that's you in the mix.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I think all that is right. And I don't want to discount the place of professionals. Sometimes you need a pro, because I also run into people, sometimes on the other end of the spectrum, who are trying to rewire their house themselves and they have no electrical training and they're not licensed to do it and it's going to create a huge mess and potentially burn their house down. And so there is a balance there on what you need to do. But having that first thought of, oh, I can do this, or oh, how could I do this, or oh, who do I know that can help me do this, that's the right kind of mindset, that's the ownership mentality. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1And, of course, yes, if you can't do it, wisdom says you know find the professional or the advice you need. So don't dig yourself into a deeper hole. I think about how many times I pridefully assumed I can do something or thought that my YouTube video is sufficient, and I put myself in a deeper mess. So well, hopefully I've dug myself out of that hole before. It's caused more problems, but not always Right. That takes some humble reflection at times.
Speaker 1But I do think that what we're talking about here, at least to some degree, is that when you own a home, the imperative for you is to take action. You cannot wait. You cannot wait till someone else comes and fixes the leaky window. No one is going to show up to solve the appliance that's broken. No one's going to fix the hole in the roof. You've got to do it. You can't make excuses. There is no legitimate excuse when someone walks into your home and they smell mold because you've allowed water to accumulate under the sink. Homeownership removes that from your arsenal. You must take responsibility for things in your life, and I think we all desperately need that. We need things to hold us accountable, because otherwise there's a lot of enticing things to spend our time doing that. Don't hold us accountable. Homeownership is not one of them. It forces you to mature up and be accountable for the things in your life.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I think one thing about mindset that is important in all of this, because sometimes people get bogged down in the idea of well, home is costly, it's costly to maintain, repairs are costly, I'm going to have to do all this stuff, I'm going to have to paint every few years. I've got to replace a roof every now and then my AC is going to go out. I'm going to have to paint every few years. I've got to replace a roof every now and then my AC is going to go out and I'm going to have to fix that and the water heater and the appliances and all this stuff.
Homeownership as Wealth Building
Speaker 2And one thing that we start out with every year and when I teach my real estate investment class, is this proven fact that real estate is the single biggest builder of wealth in the United States. Biggest builder of wealth in the United States. And you need to be looking at every dollar and every hour that you invest in your home as exactly that, as an investment in the vehicle that is creating the single largest source of wealth for you in the future. And I don't think people think about that often enough, because so many people are like, oh, I paid X dollars for my home and maybe they go on Zillow every year to check the value and then, 10 years down the road, they're like oh, my house is worth 100,000 more than I paid for.
Speaker 1Wonderful, but they don't look at it as this long-term wealth builder that is working for them in a way that nothing else is able to do Right that is working for them in a way that nothing else is able to do, right, and what I've experienced as a realtor as it relates to that, it can go either way, right, because, yes, it's sitting there building wealth. But you watch two different types of homeowners engage their home. One who's proactive about repairs and maintenance and upgrades. They spend time each year elevating some aspect of their home which needs elevation, right, so that at the time comes when life calls them to sell that home, their kitchen doesn't look like it's 40 years old, right, and their roof doesn't need complete replacement and all the potential profits they were going to make at the sale of their home are going to be gone because they're going to make at the sale of their home are going to be gone because they're going to now need to pay top dollar to some contractor to do those things which they could have done a little bit every year all along through their homeownership. And so I watched that kind of homeowner who owned that home and it's not going to create the wealth opportunity it could have created for him.
Speaker 1And then I watched the homeowner who takes pride in their property. They make it a beautiful reflection of the control and dominion that they have in their lives over their stewardship. They upgrade their home so that they can enjoy it more thoroughly each season. Right, they don't wait until they sell it to fix their kitchen. They upgrade their kitchen now and they enjoy living in their beautiful kitchen and then, when the time comes to sell, the home is a showpiece. It looks like new because all along they kept it as a positive stewardship and built that equity more affordably using some of their own sweat equity. I watch those two kinds of mentalities and I warn any homeowner out there who's accumulated a lifetime of deferred maintenance that there is no time like the present to get on that, because at some point in time they're going to be held accountable for that failure to modernize.
Speaker 2Yeah, you know, there's so few things in life where you can spend a lot of money on yourself, on things that you can enjoy for years, and then recoup all that investment on the back end when you go to sell your home later. There's so few things you can do that with Truly.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think there's maybe one more idea within this context and that's how other people view you. We're talking about you're growing up, you're embracing responsibility, you're nurturing your investment. We'll talk about this a lot in this season because I think it's very important how your real estate is a mirror of who you are and your values. And other people see you through your ownership of real estate. They see what's important to you, they see your competence, they see your incompetence and it's not just my opinion that says that.
Speaker 1I mean, the sacred texts talk a little bit in the Proverbs about walking by the house of a man whose wall is broken down and what is that thing that he thinks? It's a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest, and your poverty will come like a vagabond and your need like an armed man. And how do we make that assessment? By looking at the broken down wall that sat in front of someone's house. So I think it's wisdom, I think it's reality that when your lawn is overgrown and weedy and your wall is down and there's mold all over your fence lines, what are you projecting to the world about you?
Speaker 2Yeah, it's true. It's definitely a part of your identity, and especially those of us that are given to hospitality, that want to have guests over and entertain people and have company in from out of town that stays with us, and things like that. The yard makes an impression. The way that you steward everything that you own makes an impression, for good or for bad and I think that is something that is quite often put on the back burner in a lot of people's minds but is a true reality in every situation, from your car, to your house, to your yard, to the clothes you wear.
Legacy and Emotional Connection
Speaker 1People are making judgments about your character based on those things. Yes, I suppose we should also maybe have an episode on your home as an idol to offset the person who does too much right. We all may be guilty of from time to time, but I recognize what you're saying and because I not only do I do it, but I experience it right, when I pull up to someone's home or I hear feedback from someone who pulls up to mine, it's an absolute law of life that we're going to have to contend with one way or another. Let's talk a little bit about the idea that we're going to address this season, about ownership as legacy, and we've come back from Europe, and Europe does this exceptionally well in its legacy families.
Speaker 1It's old money culture, right? So inside of Europe, you've got people who have owned homes and estates for centuries and they've passed that on. And, man, there's something special about that. Right, in the United States, our home ownership culture has been democratized like. Everyone should own a home, no matter how poor, no matter how rich. We should all own a home, and that's good. I think it's very good that we've introduced home ownership to the lowest income of people as something that you can aspire to and you can achieve, but maybe also we've lost a little bit about the ownership as legacy. And so what are your thoughts? You went to Europe with me. Did you notice that? Did that resonate?
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean, obviously it's been around a lot longer than this country.
Speaker 2A lot of the places that we were and the buildings are hundreds of years old older than even this country, and there is something to be said for that. There's something to be said for the structure and design of the communities there. You know the way that people interact with one another because they're living in places that they grew up in or have a heritage in. You know this kind of happened by accident, but now it's definitely purposeful. We've been blessed to own every home that we've lived in, and so, from the time we got married the townhouse that we bought to then the single family home that we purchased and now the home that we're in we still own these three homes and it is a thing of pride. It's not necessarily the best financial decision sometimes to do that, although in the future down the road it probably will turn out to be that way but it's something that is legacy building. It's something that reminds you of where you came from, where you've been, and it establishes your roots in a way that a lot of other things can't.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think about. So I moved around a little bit growing up and since I have been a man, I have been stable. I came. I started going to the same church that I'm going to today when I was 18 years old. So I've been a part of that church now for going on 28 years, being in the same community, being dependable and reliable within that same community over a long course of time, having neighbors that you've lived in the same town as, who know you from the time that you were a child. You almost don't need introduction anymore. When you've lived around long enough and you have acted in a consistent fashion, people know who you are and what you stand for. There's nothing like that kind of emotional, relational equity that we develop. When we've lived in one area for a long time. We put down deep roots. That's very special for sure.
Speaker 2Yeah, and it's really neat for your children too, you know, with the house that we lived in prior to the one that we're in right now, two of our daughters lived in that house for several years before we moved to this one, and it's kind of neat sometimes to drive by that house and they're like, oh, I remember that, you know, I vaguely remember this memory or that memory associated with that property, and even to know the people that we're renting it to now and to be able to go inside and be like, oh, remember the living room, remember the playroom right, remember your bedroom, you know, and it's, it's, uh, I think, establishes even for your children those types of memories that they cherish from childhood, and does so in a way, again, that very few things can, because your home is such a valuable part of your identity and who you are and provides something for you in your life and that comfort, that place of safety and shelter that a lot of other things don't do for you.
Speaker 1What we're talking about here, I think to some degree, is the perspective of your home is not just a financial asset in your life, but as a deeply connecting emotional asset, one that bonds your family together in a special way and, I think, one that bonds the community to you in a very distinct and special way, when they see that you've been dependable and you stayed around and you've maintained what you've had over the years at a high level.
Speaker 1That creates a connection and a legacy for you, a name for you that I think is well to quote the Proverbs again to be chosen rather than great riches, right, because there's not a lot that can replace the kind of reputation that's wrapped up in relational consistency, in community consistency, in the way that you've described right here.
Speaker 1So the legacy of owning a home is significant and I think, even to think about it this way, the legacy of offering an inheritance.
Speaker 1You know, I think about my grandparents' homes, and some of them owned them right to the time that they died and then, although most of us grandchildren didn't want to inherit their homes from them, it was absolutely a container of wealth that people recognized and were deeply grateful for, and the ability for you to preserve your legacy and to pass on something significant and meaningful to your heirs in a home is well. We talk inheritance is a wonderful gift, but especially the inheritance of real estate is a very special one because it gives people the choice of using that as a store of cash, or as a store of cash or as a store of memories, if they want to keep it. We have an employee right now who's one of his grandmothers passed away and his family will now buy her home and use it as a family, almost like a family vacation house for them. And what a wonderful gift for that old person who passed away to leave her descendants A storehouse of memories in that fashion.
Speaker 2Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2It's such an emotional thing for most people that live in homes.
Speaker 2The financial side is what it is. We know it kind of takes care of itself, but you can't underscore the value also that's created in owning a home. Most people have a 30-year mortgage and so you own a home for 30 years and the mortgage is paid off and it becomes such an important asset for your family, especially if you're in a situation where maybe you have some family members struggling who can't afford to live in the community that they've always lived in anymore because of economic circumstances or financial struggles. And then having an asset that provides this such important aspect of the need of life for shelter and housing and community to someone where you're not strapped with a high monthly payment, high cost of living, and be able to utilize that asset in such a wonderful, even a charitable, way to either family or friends or people that you know that are in need, one of the things that I maybe the subject that will kind of wrap up our conversation today will be, as it relates to ownership and our civic responsibility, the stewardship that happens within a community by owners.
Speaker 1And I think, if you live in a town where the majority of its citizenry are renters, how different that is, how different that looks like when you live in a town where the majority of its citizens are owners.
Speaker 1And I'm thinking about the fact that owners, in a very unique way, pay taxes to support schools, pay taxes for local infrastructure, have a special care and a special interest for the parks and the recreational features in their community, because, while there's an ownership ideal there too, that this is something that you're paying for in lots of very specific ways and I care a lot about how it's going to be developed. So I'm going to go to the civic meetings and the zoning hearings and I'm going to make my voice heard. And who am I going to meet there? Am I going to meet other renters there? No, I'm going to meet other owners there who have been in the community as long as me, and together we'll fight those fights against whatever the big bad developer is that's coming in right. But think about that level of cooperation and integration that happens when you're an owner that just simply you're not a part of as a renter.
Speaker 2Yeah, sadly, you know, over the past 30 years we've seen the advent of Karen, right, karen the HOA president, right, it's almost created this nanny state, right? We talked about this when we were in Europe, about how strict the regulations are. It's created this culture of rule following and, you know, keeping things all kind of status quo, no-transcript, all these rules and regulations that we have to force on people to get them to act like they already should. They should already want to be engaged in their community and do what's best for the community, but so often, sadly, that's not the case, and sometimes that is because of the landlords, but not always.
Speaker 1No, I think it's related, in fact, to what we saw, what we maybe talked about in our first section of this conversation. It's the steward of that property that just sometimes doesn't care. They have not taken the ownership perspective. You can own a home and not have the right ownership perspective, because it's not just the four walls you own, it's the outside of the four walls and it's the lawn, and it's what that says about you and how that affects those around you if those are falling into disrepair or neglect, if you're letting your trash overflow and pests are rolling in, if you're parking cars and they're oil leaking and you watch the deterioration of the community because you don't care enough about your own stewardship to well shoulder up under the burden of that responsibility and do what you, in your heart, absolutely know to be right Maintain your stuff, keep it clean and tidy, be a nice person to live beside.
Speaker 1And so, of course, you're going to have the rise of the HOA and the Karen when you are neglecting to do the thing that you should have done to begin with. And so I have a little bit of sympathy for that Karen out there who's like. Well, I have to, because this neighbor of mine isn't doing his duty, and well, she's right about that. So how about we all fix that and do our duty? And that will allow HOAs to step back and Karens to become none. What is the opposite of the Karen, the nice neighbor? Right, let her become that, because you have taken your responsibility seriously favor.
Speaker 2Right, let it become that because you have taken your responsibility seriously. Yeah, I know we talked when we were in Europe about the density right, so many communities in Europe you have people living in shared family dwellings, right, or you have multiple dwellings attached to each other and people are living in such close proximity. It's the thing that so many people here in the United States loathe, right, they want separation, they want space, they want land, they don't want their neighbor right on top of them or living above them, and so we don't have a lot of that. We have a lot of urban sprawl, which you don't see in Europe, right. And so when you're living with people in such close proximity and I know some people here do you've got to form that community, you've got to work together.
Speaker 2You don't even have a choice and sadly, a lot of people just want to sit back and complain about all the bad stewards of the property and the rule violators and all these things, but they don't actually want to get involved and help be part of the solution. But they don't actually want to get involved and help be part of the solution. You know, we don't need them to become the Karen, but we just need them to show up at the meeting or run for run for a board position in your HOA or show up at the county commission meeting. Right, we need. We need people that are willing to step up and try to help be a part of the solution so that the community community by and large is engaged and we get a better outcome that everyone has buy-in to.
Speaker 1Yeah, these are virtuous cycles, aren't they?
Speaker 1You know, you accept the responsibility that has been bestowed upon you.
Speaker 1You've had enough money to buy a home, so you buy a home, you take that responsibility seriously, and now you're diligent about maintaining that home and you're doing a good job. And then you care about your neighbors, and so you reach out and you help them and you meet them and they discover you're dependable and reliable, right, and so they start asking you to help out and you start helping. You start seeing the ability you have to help out in a more community, at a more community level, and so you step into that HOA role yourself and then you can broaden your influence beyond your own four walls, into your community and into your town and beyond. But that only comes from you doing your own fundamental responsibility right to begin with, and so maybe what we're calling everyone to do in this season is to just accept the responsibilities that you've been given at a fundamental level and then watch greater responsibilities, greater opportunities and really true growth come as a result of you just doing your part right to begin with.
Embracing Responsibility and Character Growth
Speaker 2Yeah, and sometimes that requires faith that all of your effort, all of the investment you're going to make in that process is going to actually turn out for good. And so many people have stories where they feel like they've been wronged in that way, like they've put a ton in and haven't gotten anything out of it, and we've got to reverse that cycle.
Speaker 1We've got to reverse that cycle. We've got to start creating environments where people can have that good outcome from these investments they're making in ownership and community and stewardship and everything else. World stage is that we tend to really honor and uplift those who do their duty and stand up tall under their burdens and accomplish the kinds of things we're talking about. We tend to reward them with more wealth, with more honor, with more responsibility and acclaim. We take our problem they rise up as elders among us right, and we trust them and depend upon them.
Speaker 1Generally is how that works. And well, that's a really good thing. That's one of the things that's worked really well about our country. And if we're blessed to live in the centuries beyond, if our country is blessed to survive for the centuries, as long as almost millennia, as long as Europe has, we will most certainly see the kinds of long term preservation of wealth in our real estate as they have seen. I sense that at one time that spirit, that ethos, is very strong in Europe too, and now it's held by just those few who hold on to the wealth, who hold on to the wealth. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we saw that same kind of experience held by the masses here in America, because we do say home ownership is for everyone, and so well, let's see if we can kind of promote that throughout the course of season three.
Speaker 2Yeah, definitely, you know. I guess I would just encourage everyone you know invest in a home, because investing in yourself it's investing in your character, it's building your character and your moral aptitude and it's engaging you in the community in a way that you're never going to be engaged if you don't have skin in the game. So make that investment and become an owner.
Speaker 1It's a deeply virtuous thing to do, so I love it Well, thanks for taking the time to chat today, chase. Good to be reconnected with you next time.