S1E04 - Top-down cultural failure

On this episode we talk with Glenn Sibley, General Manager of the Wellington in Springdale, Arkansas. Glenn has over 30 years experience and has established himself as a leader and mentor in the bar and restaurant industry, as well as his local community. We discuss fatherhood, mutual respect, and top-down cultural failure.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey there, faithful listeners. Just wanted to jump on here and apologize before you start listening. We had some technical difficulties with the audio, so the sound is a bit wobbly. So I apologize for that, and I hope that you're able to enjoy it anyway. And I appreciate you listening despite this tragic audio failure. Coming up on points of failure.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

But if I close off my thinking, instead of seeing two images, I will only see one. I have lost the ability to see more.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Today I am with Glenn Sibley, the general manager of the Wellington in Springdale, Arkansas. And uh we're gonna be touching on some standard topics, failures, etc. Uh so Glenn, why don't you take us out and just uh tell us about your background and what you're doing now?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Um so you know, like Steve said, currently I'm the general manager at Wellington's in Springdale. Previous to that, I've had many uh management positions uh from anywhere from assistant manager up to director of operations with restaurants and bars in the southeast and up to Chicago uh for the past 30 years. A lot of things have brought me to this moment, and I'm sure we're gonna talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Absolutely. So start from the beginning. What got you into the restaurant career? How did you fall into that?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Um I mean, it's a it's a very it's a crazy story. Uh I was a uh opening manager for a Chevron gas station in um Marietta, Georgia, which is a suburb suburb of Atlanta. And every day we had uh anywhere from three to four hundred people that would come in. And back in the day, you know, you had your cigarettes that were above the counter where you would pull them down, right? Well, we had a gentleman that would come in every day, and he always had to smoke the same cigarettes, uh, Marlboro regular, the red packs. But I noticed uh after you know weeks and weeks and months that um whenever he would have a cold or was congested, that he would order a uh he would get the menthol version. So one day he came in and he had his handkerchief out, back when people carried handkerchiefs, and uh blew his nose and went and got his coffee and came up and I had a pack of menthol cigarettes waiting for him. And he goes, Um, how did you know I wanted menthol cigarettes today? And I told him, I said, Well, it seems to me that every time you come in, if you're congested, have a runny nose, or otherwise aren't just completely, you know, in great health, you get menthol cigarettes. And he asked the question, How many people do you see a day? I said, I don't know, two or three hundred. He goes, How many cigarettes do you sell? I don't know, a couple, ten, fifteen cartons, you know, various kinds. He goes, and you remember the kind that I smoke. And not only that, you remember the kind that I smoke based on my health conditions. I said, Well, I guess, yeah. He goes, Have you ever thought of being in the restaurant business? And I said, No, I I haven't. Um, you know, I I'm not a server, I don't or you know, at the time, I mean I'm gonna use some different terminology because sure my vocabulary has changed a lot in thirty years. Fair enough. So that's two stories. Um so he said, I'd like for you to talk to me in my office. I go to his office and he's continuously talks about Fat Tuesdays, which is a daiquiri bar that has it's just a it's a nightclub atmosphere, but it does have food. And he says, No, I I'd like for you to work for us or at least talk to us. I'm like, uh okay. I said, but I don't know that I'd be a good waiter. I just don't know that I could do that. And he goes, I'm not talking about being a waiter, I'm talking about being a manager. And I'm like, I'd I've never never worked in the industry, you know. And he's like, Well, it's it takes a lot more than than just taking people's orders. I'm like, okay, well, I didn't know. I didn't know that. I didn't know any of that. So he sent me to a store, talked to a guy named Mike Dacey, who is a wonderful person, um, great leader, and he was eating his lunch, and I walked in, he looked up at me, and he's like, Yeah, how can I help you? And you have to imagine at the time I looked like I was about 14. And I told him Bill sent me over. He goes, You're who Bill Glendon sent over? I'm like, Yes. We talked for a while, didn't even I didn't think anything of it. Went to uh went home, and at the time there were cell phones, not yeah, not not as not a thing. Not a thing. Not in 99, or excuse me, 89. So called me on my phone and said, We'd love to offer you a job. I'm like, you're kidding me. So went to work for them and then just that's you know, just kind of how it went. Just from there, just moved when I could. I always equated moving, moving or relocating and moving to moving up, and just a series of moves from Atlanta or Baton Rouge to Atlanta to Chicago to Cincinnati to Augusta, Georgia, to Charlotte, to Charlotte to Columbia, South Carolina, to Augusta to Atlanta, Atlanta to Dallas, Dallas, McCallan, McCallan, Dallas, Weslico, Northwest Arkansas. Wow. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Moving around.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Yeah, I was.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Did a lot of stuff. So we met in 2006 and uh at Buffalo Wild Wings. How did you end up there?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Um, before that I was with uh on the border in Rogers. And uh a couple of the owners of Buffalo Wild Wings at the time were wonderful friends of mine, uh, that I still dear friends with today, um, just on the phone with one of them. And they asked me to come over to help with their training because of the dynamics involved with training and and teaching people how to not necessarily how to sell a wing, but how to sell themselves, so to speak, and how that they could, you know, because one of the biggest uh challenges in the service industry is to get people from being on a script to being themselves, but incorporating your culture and what you're trying to do inside their inside their culture, so to speak. So that's kind of why they brought me on with them.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Okay. So to that point, because you know, I of course I I spent uh about six years myself in restaurants, and it was you and Eric Capo from back in the day that really helped me cut my teeth and and find my my way there. And I notice to what you said, a lot of servers um, I don't know that if it's they get stuck on a script, they don't feel comfortable. But um, what would you say, in your experience, your opinion, is the biggest kind of failure for those servers when they don't they don't really bounce out? You know, they just walk around, oh hey, can I offer you the Coke special today? That kind of thing, where they're not really feeling it.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Well, I think they're afraid. I think there's a healthy fear inside the industry that you're gonna do the wrong thing because people are beaten down um in the past. I mean, it's it's actually gradually getting better, but in the past, as managers, and we talk about failures, uh management has failed to connect with servers and let them know that we're on the same team. They've always kind of been that thumb on top of the server, and that just doesn't work. I mean, it's you know, the one thing that I've learned over 30 years, I've changed with the different generations that we've had to work with. And when you don't change, you do fail. Um, but I think that what happens with servers is A, when they're new, they're afraid to go anywhere other than that circle you put them in, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

So they look like they're not doing anything. And then when the manager says, Why aren't you doing anything? It's like, I don't really know what to do. So what's really happened there? Has that server failed? No, the manager failed. You know, this is a discussion that's had, I mean, literally four or five times a year over 30 years. So you can imagine I've had this talk. But it's it's where they fail is they're afraid to be themselves because they're afraid it won't conform to what the company wants. And that that's where the failure is right there. And and it's not a fail, and to be very honest, it's not a failure on the server's part. It's a failure on on um the the company, the the management. Uh it's a failure on their part to allow people to be themselves.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah, I would agree with that. My time as a manager, that was one of my biggest complaints that I found was that my management team, especially my GM, um, very, very, like you said, that thumb, just always beating them down. The servers are so stupid. And I remember sitting in in management meetings with our um with our regional manager, and you know, we're going through the challenges and the you know, what we need to work on, it always seemed to be a gripe session from the other two managers. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, it just frustrated me. Oh, server this server that. And I never understood it because I didn't have any issues with the servers. Because again, coming from the way that you and uh you and Capo really sort of raised me, if you will, in restaurants was um I treated them with I mean as people, you know, as with respect and just asked them, hey, you you know, do you think you could get your table cleared off so we can move that table again, turn it over? And that motivated them, you know, as opposed to walking around being a jerk.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Right. And and and and therein lies where you have to you know have to teach people the why so that they'll be more apt to learn from the uh about the how. Yeah. And it's just, you know, there's when you have a restaurant management team, there are different facets of a team, right? You always have you always have the pushover, you always have the dictator, and then what you should have is the GM.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

And the GM should never be either of those. The GM should be both of those, kind of balled into one, but no one would ever know it, right? So so let's say I have two members of my management team, one of them's the dictator, and one of them's the real passive. They'll grow from that. They'll learn to be the other. But the GM has to be that person that says, okay, I'm gonna be the cheerleader, but I'm gonna be a very consistent cheerleader. I'm not gonna be that person that comes down. My managers have their areas. I will go to them when this something is you know in default and say, why is this happening? Explain it to me. I'm not gonna go to their subordinates and ask them, right? All I'm gonna do for their subordinates, happy, help, helping, unless it's on a shift and I'm a direct report. But if I ever have to talk to a team member, because I have not been either of those, they're going to take it much more seriously. Sure. Right? Um, whereas if you've got the barking dog, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, well, you become numb to that bark, right? And the person that's never, never, never, never, never, well, then they're you're you're never gonna listen to them. And when they do bark, you won't believe them, or you'll say, Well, they're being an a-hole. Yeah. Why are they being such assholes? Well, they're not. All they did was do something that's way out of the norm. Whereas with the person that's continuously barking, when they actually stop, then you're like, Well, why don't they like me anymore? Because you're so um, you've become such a you've become so used to them beating you up when they stop beating you up. It's almost like the subs, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, you're just like, why aren't they beating me anymore? Because i they must not like me. And then what do you do? You do something bad, so they do beat you again. Yeah. So you condition people. So all management failure.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I agree with that. And I wonder, I wonder what the what the solution is. I mean, how do you you top down that? Because a lot of it, especially in corporate environments, it, you know, the culture goes all the way to the top and it actually starts there. And in my opinion, it does. So I wonder how we how do we correct that? What do you think that is?

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Well, it's there's a couple of ways to correct it, and sometimes it can't be corrected. It has to either be reset, right? Or, you know, you people have choices. You can go work for someone else to treat you better, or you know, you can you can assimilate. Um, but the the correct the correct way to do it at the when you get down to the assistant manager, even general manager level, is time and learning and seeing the results of what you're doing and making sure that you're able to change. Um, but as far as as you're moving up, first of all, there should be never no one should change more than the leader. The leader should always be ever evolving and changing. Consistency within policies is one thing, but being able to change your management style on the on the fly is is paramount. I mean, and listen, I've been with different concepts, as you know, tons of them. It hasn't, nothing's really changed about the the industry. We sell a product, we sell a service, we sell an experience, right? Right. How I lead people, every single one's different. Yeah. So you're always changing, always changing. But how do you fix it? You either fix it by time or with a reset. You know, you say, okay, you haven't, you know, and this is where it's kind of how do you fire the boss? Yeah. Right? Well, ultimately, if the boss is the owner, the guest will fire them by not going there, right? If the boss is in a corporation, a board will let them go because they're not achieving results, and why aren't they achieving these results? And you can only fire so many people below you before you have to say, well, the root problem may be you. Right. So that's, you know, it's really either time or a reset.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

So, you know, one of my experiences has been that I I've had, you know, everybody experiences the I've had the good managers, had the bad managers kind of thing. I've noticed that, and this may only be because of my time in restaurants, it seems to be a draw for what we might call the douchebag managers. It seems to be a lot of those guys that are maybe they're power hungry, maybe they got picked on in high school. I don't know. But um, what do you suppose that is? You think that's just coincidence? Do you think it really it really is or is an attraction piece there?

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Well, Steve, I mean, you know, I'll pull the curtain back on this a little bit, on how I feel. And it's really almost it's sad, and a lot of people say, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. I think a lot of restaurant managers, and this is not going to be a very popular opinion, and it's probably the first and last time I'll say it. A lot of them at the assistant manager level, especially if they're a little bit getting up in their high 20s, feel like they're failures because they feel like they haven't achieved what they want to achieve by a certain time. Because society has told them you have to be here at this age, you have to be here at this age, you should be this at that, this at that. Yeah. And they look at it and they go, What am I doing? I'm 29, I'm an assistant manager at wherever. Let's even say McDonald's, which is a good job, actually. Sure. Um, they think that they haven't made it. So even though you won't admit this, you you kind of project that and you kind of say, Okay, well, I haven't made it, but I'm over you. Yeah. Right? So you it's just, man, I think a lot of them are the douchebags, and I'm not speaking of the good ones. I'm speaking of a quote unquote douchebags. I believe those are ones that feel like they haven't achieved what they want to in life. Sure. And it makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yeah, I I I can't disagree with you on that. Uh uh, you know, the you've heard the we've all heard the phrase hurt people, hurt people, and you know, victims create victims. So yeah. I I think that's I think that's right. That's um I I felt some of that myself actually when I was a when I was a you know bar manager at in my 30s at Buffalo Wild Wings, you know, trying to not understanding why we went through three, four GMs in that location when I was there and trying to understand, well, I've done these things. Here's my here's my data points, here's my numbers. Why are you not just promoting me? And they just, you know, actually, I remember now they told me specifically, the regional manager told me one day that I wasn't a big enough dick to my staff to get promoted to GM. I was like, wow.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Well, and and just uh to be honest, I mean, he could have said that in a way that you would have understood he didn't have the ability to effectively communicate to you. Because A, no one needs to be a big enough dick to their staff. But what he should have said, remember, we talked about the person that was too passive and the person that was too much of a dictator. So you may have been on the passive side and you just needed to have a little bit more of the dictator in you, right? You didn't have to be the complete ass. Right. You just need to have a little edge to you so that people would so so your consistency level would have been where people listen to you, but they can also like you. People, you know, and you know, Nick Saban said, you know, if you want to be liked, don't be a leader, go sell ice cream. True. It makes sense. Yeah, but I will also I would also maintain this with even Nick Saban. You can see he gets the angriest on the sidelines you'll ever see, right? But he gets the happiest sometimes too. You can see him give out the praise where praise is needed. You know, and he just expects people to do their job, and that's it. So to say you need to be more of a dick, that's just someone that can't effectively communicate.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Yeah, well, and and looking back, that's exactly, yeah, I would I would totally agree with you on all those points. Um I think one of the things I noticed too was that uh because of the the nature of the industry, there's so much turnover and so much need for for in for staff, for employees. I feel like there's a lot of early promotion uh and really moving people from server to manager in you know in six months when they don't have any idea what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

It's it's a definitely um it's something I like to call tenure over talent. And uh it's probably the worst thing someone can do. You should run without a GM before you promote someone to GM that can't do it because you do more you do more harm than good. Oh, absolutely. Um, but it does happen. It's a very real thing. Well, who do we have? Well, no one wants to hear no one. You know what I mean? So leadership wants to make it where they don't have to fill in. So like, well, who do we have? Well, no one. Well, sure you do. They've been here for a long time. Just because they've been somewhere for a long time doesn't mean we should promote them to mediocrity, right? And so that's very true. I mean, it it does happen as a very live thing in our industry. And it's very, it's it's um it's a sad thing in our industry because we take someone that's just an incredible server or an incredible shift leader or an incredible assistant manager or an incredible general manager, and we say just because you've been here for a long time, you deserve this. And people are like, Well, shouldn't you give them a chance? You give them a chance, but you give them a chance, but make sure they're qualified to do it. Yeah, you know I I I you know I've never seen a snapper, uh a long snapper go to being a freaking uh special teams receiver. You know what I mean? Well, they've been here a long time, they should get a chance. Really? So how are you gonna be there to mop up the tears when they can't catch that ball?

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Yeah, sure. I I agree a hundred percent. I think that's uh one of the biggest things that uh is is that notion that, yeah, well, because you've been here long, you must know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

I should be the president of Brinker International. Yeah, I've been around 30 years.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

But what am I doing? I'm an operating, I'm a general manager. My position is a little different, different than most general managers, but I'm a general manager at a restaurant still. Why? Maybe I'm not ready. Maybe I'm not ready to be more. Yeah, fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

So um let's let's touch on some some personal things or professional, whichever, but um let's walk backward and where do you think um, you know, along your trajectory here, where do you think your big detours were? What's uh you know, let's let's start talking failures here.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Sure. Um, you know, there I believe that I failed in some inst in some some instances by not staying the course um by feeling that I should be at a certain level because I had been somewhere a certain amount of time, or that I should be this when I really shouldn't. Um very specific, uh, on the border. You know, I left on the border because I thought I'm ready to be this great training guru. I was not ready. Um had I stayed with On the Border, I would have learned more principles from Brinker International, which is a tremendous company. Um obviously they don't own On the Border anymore, but at the time, Chili's on the border, macaroni grill, Magianos, Big Bull. I mean, just a huge corporation with tons of tons of resources to learn. And I did learn a lot the time I was there. But leaving there, I would say that was probably the biggest failure on my part. And it's self-inflicted. I mean, big time. As far as personal failures, you know, Steve, I mean, we've we've all failed in a lot of things. Uh unfortunately, you know, I'm of that of that ilk that, you know, if I hadn't made done this, this wouldn't have happened. You know, you it almost manifests. But, you know, the the failure I have is um I've always felt I could have been a better father than I was. You know, and the industry, and I can't even use them as a crutch, but you you know, you can blame the industry saying that the industry caused you to not be a better father, but the industry didn't do it. I did it. I chose to let the industry run, tell me what to do, as opposed to having the industry um be a supplement. I chose the industry over family. And you know, for that I missed soccer games, I miss football games, you know, I got into the lifestyle of I would, you know, go out, things like that. And you know, my biggest failure was not being more uh of a father. Do I say I'm a horrible father? No. But there are things that I missed that I should not have missed. And the one thing that that I can't replace is time.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

You know, I can make another dollar. I can burn it outside and make another one today. That day I lost with Anthony, I will never get it back. And that's a to me, that's a single largest failure in my life.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

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SPEAKER_00 20:25

You know, and my failure will help others because you can ask any manager that works with me now, I will never allow you to put family over the business. The business will fail before your family does. I promise. Plain and simple.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Well, and that's I think that's the you know, like I said, kind of growing up in the industry, if you will. I mean, I only spent six years in it, but um that was one of the things that I really I saw in um in you and and Eric both was that, you know, it was the uh having the the values and and really knowing what actually mattered. Um, you know, and at the end of the day, I mean I I remember going back to um my time, I really wanted to be a bartender. I'd only been a server for about three months, and I talked to the bar manager, and of course she was just like just laughed, you know, there's no way you're ever gonna be a bartender. Some people want to do that. And I just remember one day I talked to uh I was talking to Kpo about it. I was like, hey, you know, uh, what would it take to get behind the bar? I know it's a long line, but and he just said, Is this something you want to do? And I said, Yeah, he said, Really? Is this something you really want to do? And I was like, Well, yeah, I really want to. I think that'd be, you know, pretty awesome. So he said, Okay, come in Saturday if you're not working. So just took me behind the bar. And the point of that, I feel like, is that the the value there was not so much um to me, it wasn't about who's the best and who's that. It was that I think he saw in me something where I wanted to go above where I was. And I would really want to do something where I could excel. I wasn't a great server, I was okay. I made decent money. Um, I pr I could have been better. I'm severely ADD. So, you know, writing things down was critical. But for some reason, when I got behind the bar, I could just remember everything. And it was bizarre that how I I just I felt like I was really good that. Um, so I think that's a that's a key. thing is is that understanding what's most important um in a person and being able to see that and I see that you know in both you and K Po and so I appreciate that you you know you mentioned that with um fatherhood and stuff because I for me as well you know I mean that's a that's a huge one um in in my failures there for sure as a as a dad. So you know that time there what do you balance I think is the key. How do you uh how do you manage that? What do you what do you do now to you know keep that balance I know that your son's he's in college now but you know what is that balance for you now?

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Uh I mean it's now it's I make sure that I I make the right decision. But but I use the criteria I use now is different than it was 15 years ago. You know now it's when I make a decision I'm like is it gonna be good for my family? Yeah. You know I ask, you know, I always ask in in in the in the restaurant world there's three questions that you know I ask is it good for the guest? Is it good for the business? And when I say the business that means the servers, everyone down and then is it good for me? Right? So but now I've changed I oh my that's good for our business. But for me is is it good for me and my family? Is it good for the guest? Is it good for the business? Right? That's how I make my decisions now. Um very fortunate that I've learned that you know my time is worth more than money now. And that's easy to say people are like well you must have a lot of money. No, I live paycheck to paycheck plain simple but but guess what I don't do? I don't miss my family. Yeah you know and look when I die and I got you know more years behind me than I do in front of me. But when I die they're not gonna say wow he had a lot of money. Now they may say wow he was a great restaurateur but I really hope they say he was a great dad a great a great husband and a great friend. That's what I want. That's where your legacy is. All these things that I teach people, that's all going to live on. I get that. I love that. I'm very proud of it. But in the end the only legacy you have is what you leave behind with family and friends.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yeah I I I've come to a place now I know that in the past I've always looked at you know oh my gosh I'm not making enough money here you know I'm not making enough money there and a lot of times I didn't make enough money. Um money's great though don't get me wrong oh absolutely I have to agree with you at this point in my life it's a lot more important to me to do things that are um that are gonna last you know and and the money's not you know it's not gonna be a you know I can make I can make 180,000 a year you know next year and then I the next year I might make 2000 who knows but um it's just one of those things where that that amount of dollars in my bank account just doesn't go with me. Um money's nice like you said it's great to have it you know there's a lot of things you can't do if you don't have it but yeah I I try to focus more now on what I can do with my family what what struggling now a little bit got my 17 year old son trying to sort that out with him and and and you know fix things with him and make make him see those things and grow into a better man uh and that's the time thing.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

So going back to that how do you how do you feel about you know what are the best the best and the worst if you will of those moments uh with your with your son that time um if there is a worst well i I mean I mean the the the best times as far as being able to create the time with him is you know because I did that and you know I know this is kind of not a failure but because I failed so horribly there it makes the time now much better. Um the worst was you know I think that if I had spent more time in those years there were some certain instances and circumstances which I can't bring up that I would remove I would have removed him from some situations. Anthony's never done drugs never had alcohol none of that um but I believe he was exposed to some things not anything like bad bad like you're thinking but you know there were some situations and scenarios um that I would definitely have kept him out of. Yeah I would have definitely removed him from a situation and not waited till he was out of high school to remove both of us from it.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Sure that makes sense that's funny I can think of several of those instances myself. Um so with with your um as you impart these things uh these lessons and and and things to your to your staff and whatnot, a big thing I think uh in time is is uh conflict resolution and I think that's one of the biggest things that is missing. That's the the largest gap I think in anybody's life um professionally or personally is conflict resolution and being able to productively fight if you will through something. What is your what is your take on that? How do you w how do you teach your servers especially and your son and your friends whatever how do you sort of pass that on with your conflict resolution?

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Well I mean look look we we all know this and it's been said a gajillion times different ways but it's all the same thing. Three sides every story their side your side and the truth because everyone has a perception and you always have to have that arbitrator and mediator to kind of see both sides and do the things um the one thing that people should try to be better at is empathy. You know when I speak to you I need to think okay how is this making this person feel you know what I mean so how it is is what I'm saying attacking them personally is or is it just the behavior I'm attacking? What I teach people to do is just realize that what you say the minute you say it, you can't take it back. Yeah first of all. Secondly do not say something you don't want acted on right so you know don't say well you never clean and then get mad because they're cleaning too much. Right? So as far as conflict resolution is, you know you are always an arbitrator or a mediator. But whenever you have a conflict with someone else you really do the bend, you know, bend break thing you know if you don't bend you will break. That's there's truth to that. There's absolute truth to that. Should you ever bend on your values? No. You know as long as they're good moral values. Should you ever bend on your opinion? Absolutely you know you would say well I have my opinion and I I'm entitled to it. Yeah yeah you are that's true. But understand that other people can have an opinion don't close yourself off so much that you can't bend your opinion right because I may see a a thing of clouds and say oh it's a puppy dog and you may see that it's a cat and I'd be like no no it's a puppy dog. Well listen man they look a lot alike. Yeah could be a cat but if I close off my thinking instead of seeing two images I will only see one.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

I have lost the ability to see more right yeah I you know I read something the day that said uh try being informed instead of just opinionated and I think that's a a big thing and and I man I tell you what I I spent a large part of my life being opinionated and not nearly as informed and so I I think that's where I'm as I get older and I get into my ripe old forties here I uh or near 50s I guess almost I uh I realize it's better to keep my mouth shut and listen because I hear actually a lot more when I'm not talking and you can learn um something you said about um you know saying being careful that what you say you can't take back. I think that's one of my one of my biggest pet peeves is when people say something and then their apology is well I'm sorry I said that I didn't mean it. That frustrates me because um then you're full of shit. If you're saying things you don't mean then you're just you're just talking at your ass. And I think it's I think it's important to be able to say okay I shouldn't have said that you know you meant it.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Right. I said that out of anger it was inappropriate anything you can say other than I didn't mean to say that. Well you did you wouldn't have said it.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Yeah exactly it may have been latent.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Yeah you know yeah it's hanging there and uh you definitely felt it in that moment. So I think that's key and that's um uh you know I told I raised my kids the one thing I I hope that I did right with them is that uh I you know I told them you don't need this list of things you should and shouldn't do you don't need 10 15 20 commandments just one don't be a dick because I feel like that covers everything you know it does it does just be nice yeah that's really all you gotta do is it doesn't hurt yeah a little bit of kindness goes a long way nothing's gonna come from nothing is going to nothing will define you worse than not being nice. Yeah absolutely yeah um you know I I've told this story before and uh I remember a few years ago maybe more than a few um I was at at the at a at a local joint here in in Bentonville and uh you and Kapo happened to be out with some friends as well and I remember we were standing there having a conversation and uh I was looking at the 20 somethings whatever they were dancing in there and I remember looking at you and I said you know Glenn we used to be cool and we're just never going to be cool anymore. And I remember you looked at me and you said see you'll always be cool and the reason that you will is because you treat people with respect. Yeah and that's something that has stuck with me because not only just you saying that them but it's something that I remember learning from both you and Kapo years ago in in my restaurant days. And I think that's big um is respecting people. And I think that's a huge failure that we have right now in in society just roundabout. I mean whatever side of the fence you fall on um respect I think is what's missing.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

It's just too easy to not it it we've made it we as a culture in society have made it too easy to disrespect people.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

People assign emotion to text wrong it's words. Yeah you shouldn't have to put a smiley face emoji behind everything to let people know that you're not upset. You know you don't read things for what they are you read things like a novel and put yourself in it and it's like stupid. Facebook has is be has been bastardized from what it really initially was probably for. We you know we've all become experts at everything because we have Google. You know it's we've all stopped being people and and we've forgotten that you know whatever your religious beliefs are we've all forgotten that in the end we're only here for a certain amount of time and I'm not saying everybody needs to go out and become anarchists and just have fun every day but what I am saying is just enjoy life. Enjoy the per people you're with but more importantly allow them to enjoy the time with you.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Yeah I think that's key. Yeah right now is all that matters because the past is gone the future isn't here yet so you know it's uh I I you know I I I had this conversation with my my youngest son uh a few weeks back and we were talking about respect and um I think the confusion has come to where one we think that we have to respect people's opinions and I disagree with that. I don't think you have to respect opinions I think you have to respect people and show them respect. And I think there's the notion of earning respect um and whether you earn it or give it or you know whether it's earned or demanded I suppose and I think that demanding anything puts you in a position of not really deserving it. And so yeah I I you know respecting people's opinions I disagree with that because Hitler had an opinion and I don't think any of us really respect that opinion. You know so I and whether we should respect the Hitler I don't know but I think it's the person that matters and not so much what they're thinking and saying um so yeah that's kind of my take where where do you how do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Well I mean I mean you know you say right I don't have to respect your opinion I have to respect your right to have one. That's all I have to do. Yeah that's I mean that's you know look your your opinion is your opinion I respect that you have one. You don't I don't have to respect what you're saying but I do have to respect the fact that you have an opinion. Because if you didn't then what the fuck are we talking about? Exactly. Why why am I talking to you? Yeah I I could talk to that center block you know or I could just talk to a bobblehead doing this just agreeing with me on everything I say. Yeah yeah okay but yeah I don't you don't have to respect someone's opinion but you do have to respect the fact that they have one.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

And I think that it's key that you know when in in in that communication you know and talking to somebody I think that you know something my son I tried to impart to him because he has this a problem with one of his teachers in school last year that you know they just did this and did this and the way they talked is I just I just I'm not gonna show them any respect and I try to explain to him it isn't about whether or not they deserve the respect in the position that you're in. You know uh when you're a teenager for one you have teachers uh you know as an adult you'll be in a job and your boss um might be a jerk you might be a you know a a POS but at the end of the day even if you don't actually respect him you gotta at least show some respect when you speak to him and you gotta listen. And I think there's this it's this weird I don't know if it's a it's a break in the mind where people are are struggling with understanding that you know I don't have to like you to be nice to you. I don't you know and I don't have to be mean because I don't like you. Um and I think that's a that the key in that communication and you know like you said it it makes no sense to try and talk to somebody if you have the same opinion. I mean it's great to have the same opinion.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Oh I'd love it.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Yeah it's just um you know I you know I my some of my friends when we are we're of one mind in most things that we just don't talk about the things that we all agree on because it just doesn't stimulate any conversation. No yeah we're like okay cool. You know so um I think that's I I kind of think it's key to have differences of opinion.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

The only time you see where where it's a very uh animated conversation and really if you really think back think on this. So the only time you have an animated conversation with someone else and you're both agreeing on something is when something's really good or really bad.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Those are when you have them that's those are you know that's when you have them. But it's just the middle of the road you won't talk about it. So that's where your differences of opinion have to happen. But when you both agree on something that's really really good you'll have a great animated conversation. When something's really really really bad you have a great animated conversation. But if you both are middle of the road on something you won't talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Oh yeah 100% of the time yeah it's uh and it's funny that those those two ends of the spectrum um always seem to be somewhere in the realms of well I guess religion and politics seem to be the two things that really spark those massive conversations when it comes to the the disagreements. You allow them to yeah exactly and I I think that's the you know there was a time I was extremely political and um on my Facebook even I was always this this post and that post and it came to I eventually I realized that that's just sort of ugh which is gross.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

It is and you know we we have a lot of friends right or a lot of acquaintances. I don't know that a majority of my acquaintances have the ability to disassociate themselves from their opinion to allow me to have mine.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

So what do I do? I don't say anything. Because I value their friendship more than I value my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Exactly and that's I think you know and and I of course I I want to be clear that I'm not shitting on anybody that wants to share their political point of view on Facebook um because I you know a lot of my friends do and I respect um and I respect those people um and and typically I agree with their opinions. I think for me I guess what I was like you just said I w commenting on something I think that's where I'm going with it is that you know because I disagree with things with a lot of my family and I think it's more important to protect that relationship than it is to blast them on Facebook with a disagreement.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Why would you it it makes no sense to do so. Yeah yeah why would you ever do that? Right I'll be a keyboard thug you know why I mean it makes zero sense. Back before this how would you have handled that would you have just not talked to them right that hey I don't you know I can you explain to me why you feel this way because maybe I'll see why and I'll understand or maybe we can talk it out and I'll make you feel how I should feel yeah so maybe you know but but you know I mean that's that's you know that's we need to stop. We need to stop with the keyboards we need to stop with I mean Facebook is great. I love it you know I'm on it a lot um but I think when it all boils down to it I still make a lot of phone calls. I'm a phone call guy. Yeah I want to hear inflection. Yeah you know what I mean I want people to hear my inflection. I want to I'm very mono a mono so to speak.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

And we got to get back to that. And people would be like oh you're just that old man saying you kids get off my lawn. No I'm not I'm saying hey kids I want more of you on my lawn.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Yeah yeah yeah yeah a good a good friend of mine and actually he was uh uh my first uh guest on the show um he said that if we come to a place where we understand uh that as people we are we go toward the things that we want and we go away from things we don't want if we can actually begin to understand that and I'm paraphrasing him so I don't want to misquote but um if we can begin to understand that then we can understand why people do things we don't necessarily have to accept that it's right you know that it's okay because it could not be the greatest thing that they're doing but we can understand it and then we can have a conversation. And I think that's the key is you know you mentioned it earlier is that empathy. We don't understand each other and we don't try to understand we're trying to be understood all the time. And uh we're very self-motivated self-centered in that in that respect.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Any uh final thoughts any parting words no I mean you look I I'm I'm really proud of what you're doing. Um you know I know Capo is too we were just talking uh he says he wants to you know sign up and and listen I I encourage everyone to listen to and I encourage encourage everyone listen failure when when people say failure is not an option those assholes have no idea what they're talking about. Failure is the only option right success is an option and I I truly believe that if you stay the course and you when I say stay the course I'm not saying just completely you know stay down the line. I'm saying that just kind of set yourself a goal and keep working at it and don't and fail. Fail fail miserably fail big fail huge I'm not done failing. Yeah not sure and as you fail just embrace it and figure out what you can do to not fail the same way look for new ways to fail. So you'll you'll be okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

You will too Steve you will I think so thanks I love this by the way well thank you Glenn I appreciate your time and I will I will let you get back to your day and uh I'm sure we'll see each other again soon. I know I got a lot of walking around looking busy to do. All right thanks sir