60: Motherhood Missteps: Embracing Our Perfectly Imperfect Journeys with the Moms of The Real Mother F*ckers Podcast

Ever feel like motherhood is an uncharted territory with its own set of wild adventures? Well, strap in, because Stephanie Cooley and Vanessa Anderson of the Real Motherfuckers Podcast  bare it all about the rollercoaster that is raising kids.

Whether you're navigating the choppy waters of making mom friends or weathering the storm of solo parenting when your partner's away, this episode's raw momversation promises to be your compass through the highs and lows.

Say goodbye to taboos and hello to candid talk about aging like a fine wine, yoga farts included. As we crack the code on turning 40 and the newfound freedom it brings, Stephanie and Vanessa offer up laughter and solidarity. Our tales from the trenches of motherhood serve as a reminder that in the midst of our personal renaissances, we're all in this together—sprouting grays, nurturing friendships, and finding our footing as our kids grow more independent by the day.

You can find Vanessa and Stephanie:
-Podcast: https://patreon.com/RealMotherFuckersPodcast
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realmotherfuckerspodcast/
-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RealMoFosPodcast

📺 Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOpw5ui4uxJHx0tLFVtpnfSkpObfc4d-K

You can find Katie at:
website: burntpancakes.com
YouTube: @burnt.pancakes
Instagram: @burntpancakeswithkatie
Email: katie@burntpancakes.com

🚽 Did you know Katie is also a Certified Potty Trainer? 🚽

☎️ Schedule a 1:1 chat today: Schedule Here
💻 Digital Potty Training Course HERE
📖 Potty Training E-Book HERE
🆓 FREE potty training resources HERE
Instagram: @itspottytime
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Transcript

00:10 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Hello, hello and welcome back to another episode of the burnt pancakes podcast. I am your host, katie Fenske, and, like always, I'm here to remind you that everyone burns their first pancake. Today, I have on friends and podcast hosts, stephanie Cooley and Vanessa Anderson. They're the hosts of their own podcast, real Motherfuckers Podcast, so their catchphrase is they are real, they are moms and they F up too, so is this not the perfect pairing for my podcast? I absolutely loved chatting with these two. 

00:45
I always love when an episode just feels real, natural and it's just like a chat between friends and it just flows and we banter. And that's exactly what today's momversation was. We talked about what motherhood felt like when we first became moms, how it's like making mom friends, some of our big mom fails, how we feel about having teenagers soon and what it was like for us turning 40, because all three of us are in our forties. This is a great one. You can just sit back, listen to these moms chat, because it is gold. So please enjoy. Stephanie and Vanessa, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having us. 

01:27
I'm very excited about this one. Why don't you start off and introduce yourselves? Let us know how old your kids are. 

01:33 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
All right, go ahead. Do you want to go first, steph? I'll go first. I'm already talking. I'm Vanessa Anderson and my children my son's just turned seven last month and my daughter's halfway through nine. And yeah, I always wanted to have two children. They're the same order as my brother and I and same age difference. Didn't plan that, so it's very relatable to me. Some of the situations that happen, especially for my daughter, cause she's the older one, and so it's a very relatable experience for me. I've been enjoying it. I'm a single mother, sometimes because my husband's profession he's a firefighter, so sometimes I do a lot of D, do it yourself, mess ups and do it yourself, fix up. So it's all the things. 

02:17 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I love it. Love it yes. 

02:20 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
Yeah, I'm Stephanie and I have two, two kids, and they are the same order as Vanessa's kids and our kids play with each other as well. 

02:28 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
I've got a nine. 

02:30 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
I know it aligned very nicely. My oldest is nine and my youngest is six and I also have like a pseudo kid. We took in our 15 year old nephew a few years ago. He's off to college now but he lived with us for three years and taking in a teenager without having experienced raising teenagers was it was interesting. But he came to our house already as a good kid but he was also a regular teenager. So there are those issues that you, you can, you can think of all of the regular teen things, but it's just kind of like a shock when you it's like when you're dealing with little ones and then you bring that kind of sort of energy in. Um, it was actually a very nice welcoming energy to have so many different ages in my house, um. But yeah, I also love to write. I write a newsletter called unpacking and I basically unpack all different types of aspects, typically ones that are annoying or hard about the human experience. 

03:38 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Yeah, I didn't add to my resume, I just did the mom part. 

03:43 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Let me let me add as moms, we're like that right. 

03:45 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, totally. 

03:47 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I'm being mom. It's like, oh wait, there is more to me, there's other to me, other things to me. 

03:51 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Yeah, so, besides you know, helping with this podcast, I teach a parent child class in a Waldorf curriculum setting. I've been in the Waldorf movement for about I don't know oh God, 15 years now, I guess, Plus, um, I, I specifically speak, uh, teach Spanish in the Waldorf curriculum. Um, I love to teach yoga. I do that very minimally these days, just once a week, but it's still very much a part of me. Um, and yeah, just, I love do it yourself projects at home. 

04:27 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
We build everything ourselves. I'm not specific enough with that. She built a fucking house, wait, a house. Yeah, so they have like a like a ADU, like you know, guest house, and her husband built it during the pandemic. 

04:42 - Katie Fenske (Host)
That is incredible. My dad built the house that I grew up in and then they ended up moving. But I'm always thinking like, oh my God, how did my parents do on like weekends? They were like we just go to home Depot and like this weekend was the floor? Yes, exactly, so we? 

04:57 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
just did it piece at a time. You know, just learned a lot. First of all, talk about marriage counseling, right, like, especially as women, I'm like, okay, don't say that, that doesn't look very good. Like how do I say we need to change that? And it's like I had to learn new ways to communicate. And but it's also we're so proud of it and we've helped a lot of young ladies out, young in their careers, to be able to afford to live in our area. So that's always been kind of our goal. So I always look for, you know, someone that just got out of college or someone who's in the middle of college that doesn't have a budget to have their own place. So that's always been. 

05:31
We had that paid forward to us when we first moved to San Diego. It was a shock when we came from Arizona to see, oh my God, our rent is how much and our bed is next to our stove. Like we were like how is this going to work out? Exactly Like I'm going to cook while I can take a nap at the same time. Like what are we going to do here? So my aunt actually had a friend and her mom had this little house that was condemned and she's like, if you can fix it, you can live in it. So that was our first deal yourself. So she gave us a great deal and I thought you know what Some you know I told my husband someday when we when we can do this and we are we're going to pay it forward to people to afford to live here and not only just give their whole check to where they live actually be able to still live. So that's the whole purpose of behind that little house. 

06:17 - Katie Fenske (Host)
That is so awesome. I love that. Yeah, all right, let's talk a little bit about becoming moms, cause on your podcast, you're just very open about real motherhood, so what? 

06:32 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
was it like becoming a mom? Was it what you expected or did it rock your world? I, yeah, I always say that. Aren't we all the best moms before we're moms? 

06:41 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
I would never do that to my kids. 

06:43 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I would never do that. My kids never ate junk food, never. 

06:48 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
You know, and no, I think that that's probably the universal answer for every mom is it's never what we expect. But I think the thing that I realized is that, as a mom, I'm always re-examining how I, how I do motherhood, and it's never what I expect. Each day, you know, I'm like, okay, wait, that's not working for me and our family, let's change it up. Yeah, and I think that when, before becoming a mom, I'm like I'm just going to be this way for the rest of my kid's childhood, and you know, know, and I think it's probably a lot of has to do with how we were raised and we're like, okay, we don't want to do it that way, the way that our parents did, and we're so hard pressed on the idea of what we don't want to do or what we do want to do based on our childhoods. And I think that that's another aspect of motherhood that I did not expect is like facing things that I dealt with as a kid. 

07:47 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Coming up, yeah, becoming a mom, yeah, that's that's the part that you forget, that that's going to happen and you it comes intensely Right. So yeah, I'll echo. I definitely feel what Steph did. I was able to observe lots of families and also babysit lots of families in the school setting that I had. They'd be like, hey, you want to, can you? We trust you so much. Will you take our kids over the weekend? So I, you know we'd take them on. So I knew, okay, there's no break here, like you got to be on all the time, but it was definitely. You know, all your basic human needs were taken away right from the get-go. Right when you have your child, there was the body image stuff that happened. I was always really fit. So having to deal with that and I didn't even think about that you know like loving your body and appreciating it. 

08:30
Took a while for me to say thank you for making this human. It's okay that you're. My mole is, you know, two inches below where it used to be? 

08:37 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
on my right thigh Like it's all good. 

08:38 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
You know, like my breasts aren't what they were, but they gave food, like it's so much of that process. But I also on the on the beautiful side. My children have made me realize the simplicity of life is what's best the walks, the taking our time picking the dandelions, the taking our time to lay on the trampoline and look at clouds, the laughter, the giggling. I, when I thought of these questions, I thought my children put a magnifying glass on time and it stays still when you're in the moment with them and when you're not, you can feel it. And when you are in it with them, you can feel life and it's really worth living when you're in that precious moment and I think that's such a gift of being a mom that you cannot describe until you are in it, and I would say that is more than what I expected as far as joy. 

09:32 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
It's funny you say that because I'm thinking about. Some of the best days with my family has been when we're like you know what, let's screw all the plans that we wanted to do today and not do any of them, and that's when we felt the most connection is just doing nothing together at home. 

09:49 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, yeah that makes me think of summer, summer break. 

09:53 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
I'm like do I fill it with lots of activities and like camps and this, or do we just be and like brother time, and you know yes, I just read a book and um, it was saying you know, we only have 18 summers with our children and after that it's. You know, you'll see them 10 percent of their life and yours will be spent with them on holidays, dude, I was sure I wrote that down. 

10:17 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, I know nine summers with my daughter so putting that my son no way putting that in perspective, 10, I'm like, oh my god, my oldest. 

10:26 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
No way, yeah so it's like if we yes, we should you know, if our children are into something, send them to these beautiful spaces where they'll be enriched and stuff, but to for them, for us to be like we need to occupy every minute and it needs to be spent doing something. 

10:41
My personal opinion is no. It should be, you know, really savoring the moment and connecting with your children, if you can and have the time and the means to do it, because there's mothers out there that do have to support you know the whole household and do have to work, and you know when they can pause. It's not only a gift to the mother, it's a gift to the children, because that's what we're doing it for. We're doing it to be present, to provide this consistent connection with this human being that you are sending off and hopefully, with your values and love representing themselves, because they'll have their own formulation of whatever you concocted those 18 years, or you know, the values that you all decided were yours in your household the values that you all decided were yours in your household. 

11:27 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, and I I look back at my childhood and my mom was so fun, like she just always seemed like she was having so much fun. I asked her I was like, was it hard? Like was it really hard? She's like, oh, it was draining, it was exhausting. I'm like you. You seemed like you were loving it. I'm like I hope my boys see that, or like feel that behind all the like do this. I'm like I hope they're still like my mom was fun. It was fun growing up. 

11:50 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
You know, I think it's a mixed bag, isn't it? Cause we are also our a hundred percent selves with our children, and sometimes we give them the brunt of our frustration us, and but they also get the excess of our joy. So it's a little bit of it all. 

12:05 - Katie Fenske (Host)
That's so sweet, yeah, and yeah, I am totally myself in front of them, like I can be myself. 

12:12 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
I used to butcher myself over being myself in front of my kids, Cause you know they see the ugliest part, and I have to remember and I don't remember it sometimes, but then I do eventually as like the importance of repair and moving on the kids know cues too, that, like my daughter, my son will go you have that look, you have that look. 

12:36 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
And I'm like, oh, so now we're born, I know. So I'm like, do I go to the mirror real quick and freeze and be like what is that? That look? 

12:42 - Katie Fenske (Host)
do I need to like relax my face, but also like yes, I am human, you guys, I am human, your noise level is making human eaters go crazy. 

12:54 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Respect our space here, yeah. 

12:56 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yes, yes, um, okay, one thing I did not expect with motherhood was how lonely it was going to feel. Um, I don't know if you guys making friends felt different becoming a mom. Did your friendships change? Did you guys know each other before becoming moms? 

13:14 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
No, and what's funny is we have like parallel lives, that we literally she's the Filipino version of me and I'm the Mexican version of her, and some of our stages in life were like me too, me too, and I'm like yeah, it's just crazy. 

13:27
We both moved to this area before we were pregnant, or you were on, you were pregnant, yeah, and uh, I didn't know anybody here, neither did Steph. Um, I did feel super lonely. My husband's always working. I was by myself, my job was in another city, all my friends and that I hung out with were in the you know hour away and they didn't want to drive here all the time. And I want to say that I honestly didn't start making friends until my daughter was able to make her own. So things that we would do, like going to the parent child class that I now teach, or, you know, any activities that we did if we connected with the mom that I sat next to all the time at dance, or but my true core friends, I want to say I'm going to be dead honest. 

14:16
I don't feel like I made them until two years ago two or three years ago ones that I can completely be vulnerable with and the ones that I can have bad day and good days with and not feel judged, but accepted and supported. I would say it's been about three, about around COVID, so three, four years, and Steph obviously is one of those. But that's how mine went. Hers is a great story. She's all about doing you want to tell them how you feel? 

14:39 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
Yeah, I was. I was desperate for friendship. That's how I felt I was desperate for friendship. That's how I felt yeah, I mean, I worked from home before everybody worked from home and I connected with my coworkers virtually, but it's not the same. 

14:54 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah. 

15:02 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
And the first year of motherhood I had pretty bad postpartum depression and I got a dog, so I would have some sort of like live presence next to me. But I was so desperate I went on to meet up and just I remember the name of the group was like North County cool moms and dads, and so they were meeting at a brewery. That's me, yeah, that's me, I'm cool, let's go. So we, we went to Oceanside at a brewery and there were just a bunch of other moms and dads who were desperate for friendship as well and it was kind of like speed dating and I met a couple of friends from that and that was probably like eight years ago and they've since moved across the world and we're still really good friends. I've made friends also. One friendship I made was through Facebook. I met, I was in the camp of baby sleep training my, my kid and you know the very controversial baby wise method. 

16:01
I did that because, sleep is imperative to me and it worked for us. And there were these Facebook groups for other moms who do baby wise and there was one mom whose older son was the same age as my daughter and then her baby was like a week away from my baby. So like what we did was after we had our second it was so nice because she was two hours ahead of me she would send me a Facebook message and like, oh my God, I've been up since like whatever time the baby pooped on me all of these things. And then I get up two hours later when it was time to feed, middle of the night, and like there's someone that's out there that is alive, because you, you know, when you're in the middle of like newborn phase, you're like I'm up at 2 am and I swear nobody else is awake except yeah definitely not my husband. 

16:54
Yes, yeah, and so I made connections there, but then also just same school. But like a lot of the friendships that we have made here at our school, a lot of us were not ready for like close friendship until like a year or two ago. 

17:12 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Yeah, we're just saying like it's another. Even though it's a beautiful benefit, it's something else to maintain. You have to create time for your friends. You know and, and and it nourished that. It's a relationship that you have to constantly give to and it's a exchange right, and she's absolutely right. Most moms aren't ready, not because they don't want to, it's just you don't have the time, you're tired, yep, and it's just there's so much going on. 

17:36 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Like my best friend, I've known her since high school and the amount of time we see each other is like oh, it's been three months now, just because her kids are in school minor in school we have sports, we have that. It's. For me it was the like making time to see people when and I did feel like when mine were younger it was a little bit easier because you could just say hey, I'll meet you at the park, cool. 

17:57
Right Now they're in school and it's like, oh wait, they have homework now and they have this, but I still have one home and you don't have any home. That has, like that, shocked me about elementary school. Absolutely Just like, oh wait, now we see each other less and our kids are in school. 

18:12 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
I know you know. It's a good one, though, when you don't see each other in a while and you see each other and it's just like you pick up right where you like. 

18:19 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Well, I just I saw her last night at baseball and I had 10 minutes between getting there and then having to be in the dugout doing parent duty. And I was like okay, ready, we have 10 minutes go, and we were just talking like they'll be in. Let me know. I want to know what it is. 

18:34 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
I think that I also think the important thing about friendships was I made friends like at yoga and stuff, and some people didn't have kids and the dynamic of that was just a little off. Like it was horrible, but it was just hard for them to relate, or you know, it was just, it's just different, I love hanging out with kids or people who have no kids. 

18:56 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
I love it. I love non-mom talk so much I. Well, it's funny Cause I like. The podcasts I listened to are not. They're not mom podcasts. Very often they're like single women who have no kids, and I don't know, I just love hearing the young voice, and I just love hearing just another perspective. That's not motherhood sometimes yeah. 

19:17 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
I think the hard part was just trying to sync up like meeting, because I had children and I had no one I trusted at the time to babysit my kids. So it was like I do want to spend time, just one-on-one time, but it's hard to find time. So it was that. 

19:32 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
But it is fun, though, finding that friend who doesn't have kids, who doesn't mind being around. That too yeah. 

19:38 - Katie Fenske (Host)
That's cool. 

19:39 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Those are treasures. Sometimes it's not so yeah. 

19:47 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Well, I found that podcasts early on in motherhood became my friend. Like my son would get up at probably five in the morning so I would just throw him in the stroller, go for a walk. And it was these podcast women. At the time I was listening to a lot of mom podcasts and those just became my friends. I was like I need to know these people like you'd follow them on Instagram. 

20:01 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
You're like oh my, god, my just I know these parasocial relationships are so interesting. Like, okay, I just want to hang out with Katie. 

20:14 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, yeah, okay, let's listen to her yeah. 

20:17 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
I loved it. 

20:18 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Okay, so we are all in our forties. Um, that was a very big adjustment for me and the more I talked to like some friends who are about to turn 40, we all kind of have similar feelings about that. How was it for you guys turning 40? 

20:36 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
I think it was a mixed bag, but it was a happy bag too, but other things started bagging, okay, so there's, there's a mixed bag, right? So I I think that I feel really confident inside of who I am and who I'm not. I had this, like I know I call middle life pause, not middle life crisis, because it was more like I looked back and I was like, okay, this is where I've come from and this is where I'd like to go, and really reassessing where am I going to spend my time now? Like what's important? What can I start taking out? That is not worth my time and same I did an assessment of the people I want to be around and the person I want to be. 

21:18
I was also, you know, like okay, and I'm going to give credit to Steph for encouraging me, not encouraging me like saying she, you should do this, but she has let her hair go, you know, naturally gray for the past couple of years, and I just started doing mine and it was like letting go, not saying that you have to do this, but it was been very liberating to just say this is who I am and I'm great for that. 

21:46
And you know, just like going back to what I said, thinking my body for what it's done so far and then saying, hey, we still got more to go, like we're going to do great things. And I'm not, you know, ugly Cause I'm 40. I'm beautiful Cause I'm 40. I feel great Cause I'm 40. But then I was also thinking my dad walked me down the aisle when he was 42 because he was a young cat. So it's like, putting that into perspective, that I'm still raising my kids. I'm like, I'm old, I'm getting older here, like and also realizing that you know, you can still have a juicy love life and a juicy just life in general um and uh yeah. 

22:21
And there's funny things too, like now I to see my husband, you know intimately, it's here. You know it's like you got to zoom out a little bit and I'm kind of like, is that on purpose, cause we're getting wrinkles? We still look great. You know, it's like the dark bar. It's the dark bar, look when you're this close. But no, I really celebrating it. But I did have a moment where I was like, oh my God, these lines are getting deeper. I'm just being straight up Like I don't look the way I used to. But I think that's why I'm working so hard inside to say this is all going to change, but my heart and soul will not. 

22:54
That's the way, it can still be me. 

22:55 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, I read that studies show where did I read that? Okay, so studies show that women over 40 are more confident and they have a decrease in self criticism oh, which I feel like is representative of me as well that, and I sweat differently, I smell differently. It's weird, but you know, it's really cool. And I feel like I have a friend who was talking about starting this website to really like showcase products and services for women who are going through perimenopause or menopause, and she's like it's weird, no one, there's nothing out there like this. And I'm like, yeah, because no one cares about aging women. 

23:55 - Katie Fenske (Host)
And you're not allowed to age. 

23:56 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Yeah, we're like thrown to the side. We have to be fresh our whole lives or you're just you're. 

24:01 - Katie Fenske (Host)
We can't breathe anymore or like aging is bad. It's like yeah no, it's not and I don't know. 

24:09 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
I feel like the more we talk about it, we're like, okay, it's, it's happening and it's okay and I don't know. I feel I find lovely comic relief in us revealing to each other like what weird things are happening to our bodies, um, but it's also really cool because we are we do by expressing these things. 

24:30 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
It is proving that we are having more self-confidence to just be able to just really express that totally like I I texted her what last week or a week ago and I'm like I totally was the loud fart and yoga like, and I didn't even mean to fart, like just dropping happening I was just like getting in there tucking my pelvic floor and out it came and I'm like you know, I wasn't even embarrassed. I feel like so good about that. 

24:53 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, I love how you described it, though, as a midlife pause, cause that was kind of like. The six months leading up to it for me was like oh my God, I think for me, cause I had my last at like almost 39. 

25:05
So then it just kind of felt like the end of like the baby, like the having kids stage and I wasn't quite ready to transition to like oh, now we're just raising the kids, but my mom had said like my forties were my favorite, I loved my forties. And I was like, how did you love your forties? I get it now Cause it's like I feel more free. I have you know. My kids can buckle their seatbelts now, like that is heaven. 

25:29
Um and you're right, the confidence. It's like you, like I'm constantly working on that, but it's like, why can't we age Like I don't need, to like get rid of these wrinkles? It's cause I smile, I spent time with my son. 

25:42 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
I love the beach Like yeah, so my neighbors are the coolest retired couple, like when I see them like retirement goals, yes, and when I talk to her about. I have some yeah, when I talked to her about being 40, she's like oh, you are such a baby. Jesse, you wait, wait till the 50s and the 60s And'm like, okay, thank you, thank you, I need to hear more of that yeah, exactly yeah. 

26:10 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Baby boomers have paved the way for the new way to see the elders, because I feel like their parents kind of aged quickly, like in their 40s and 50s. I don't know if it's because we were young, but then I look back and I'm like my grandma was really 40 in that picture. 

26:21 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
She was a little older, like just you know what Like what'd you? 

26:25 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
do that for. But you know, they're just still like. They're still actively saying you know, yes, we're still having sex, yes, I'm still going to yoga, I am eating healthy. Like there's this new wave of just preserving what you've got. Yeah, you're preserving what you got and, like my husband goes, we're just getting older and that's what's going to happen and it's okay. 

26:44
And I think it's great for my husband to embrace. You know him aging and telling me I'm beautiful as we're aging. It's nice to like laugh about it too. Like, oh my God, that was totally an old fart moment. 

26:55
Like you know it's to embrace it together is nice, and he's not. You know a partner that says you should be dying your hair, or you know, I'm sure that there is some of that for some people, which is unfortunate, but it's, it's. This is life. You know we are right now. Are the what were the seasons? We're like in the beginning of fall, where everything's blooming and it's like ripe and delicious. I think that's what 40 is. 

27:19 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Love that? Yeah, I think too. It hit me like right around 40, a few people passed away in my life and I started looking at my mom and like my mom's getting older and so you start thinking like in your twenties it's like your life is going on forever. In your forties You're like okay, like I need to make sure I'm living it up right now, like I need to enjoy, I like I'm not going to waste my time anymore. I'm going to enjoy this. 

27:46 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
Absolutely, absolutely, I think, that's if you put in one sentence, that would be it. I think it happens that way for a reason, I think, cognitively, when we're 20, we can't grasp that. We're so in the moment. We're so, yeah, I, I think it. I think that the way that our bodies go on, our brains go and the ages that we are, it just makes sense, whoever this creator is on purpose and having kids later than previous generations, I think, did. 

28:14 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I think it's keeping us young. So I'm, like I'm my youngest, not going to graduate until I'm in my sixties. You know, like I, I'm going to have to stay young because he's a young kid with it? Yes, Okay, so on my podcast, I really want to make it clear that you know motherhood. We're just making mistakes all the time. Um, would you be willing to share some of your best mom fails with us? 

28:37 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Oh my God, where do you want us to go? Maybe? 

28:39 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
your top your top one. 

28:41 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
I think honestly, I was like where does where first of all? Like where do my top conflicts of needing to learn on fails stem from? And that was when I'm tired or I have like this podcast sometimes will take over my mind and I'll be in the middle of it and my kids want my attention and I'll get frustrated. And not only that, I'm not fully connecting with my child, Say like they're talking to me, but in my mind I'm thinking about something else. That's a start. Fail right there. And then they'll be like hey, I told you this. And then I'm like, oh my God, they did and I didn't pay attention. I didn't pay attention. So it frustrates them. 

29:18
And so then it's just like how we are with our husbands. If you're talking to your husband, you're like hey, are you listening to me? Like our kids feel that too. Like our kids know that when we're not on with them, I feel like I have noticed I've done that the last six months. I felt like trying to juggle everything I do had that fail and where I felt the most. That seems topical right now. But I'll give you an example. Now I'll get juicy. My daughter was, you know, telling me something that really hurt her feelings about an experience she had at school and I wasn't fully present for her, and because I wasn't fully present for her it really hurt her even more. She was already hurt, so I feel like that made me feel like crap. 

29:59 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
How did she? Did she call you out in the moment? 

30:02 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
uh, yeah, she was kind of like mom, like my reaction wasn't as sincere as it could have been if I was in the moment, like I'm usually a very physical person, so I would probably have hugged her more, held her hand, and I was not. And that's when I was like woman, to my own advice. You have me prioritizing these children. Yeah, that have your mind being off to the next project. And I know we're in a world where we're constantly looking at our phones, doing this, doing that and then so it's like when you're on with your kid, it's like you're trying to still be there but you're onto the next. So I had to really stop and think about that. You know what I mean. And the other thing is is, um, when I am already frustrated, say I didn't, you know? Same thing, if it's not with sleep, forget it. I'm, I am not patient. So say it's just been a bad morning or a bad day, um, and then my child comes with the conflict and I'm trying to have them do something. Maybe it's a chore or something they're responsible for and they're resisting to me. 

30:57
I have noticed that where I'm learning and I've learned since but still am practicing is that banter. I'm like I'm bantering with the nine-year-old Like I am literally are making a nine-year-old argument, like I'm not going to win this and she's not going to win this. And it's she and I wrote, I wrote this down that you know she's learning what conviction is like. She's like there's a judge, there's a jury and she's trying to convince, you know, the judge and the jury that she's right about whatever's happening right then and there. And I'm like okay, I'm like pause button, I. It's not about who's right or wrong. Let's look at the situation. What are we learning? Whose needs need to be met and why isn't she doing what she's doing? That's the real problem. So it's managing all those little things and sometimes it's you know it's hard Like you're not your best self. 

31:42
I might roll my eyes or I might not have the best response. I might put my hands up in the air and be like I just don't know what to do right now. Or I'll say I need my space to take that pause and be like I don't want to them to think I'm giving up. So I come back and I'll say, okay, I cleared my head and I understand that this is what you meant. And then there's some times when I've let that moment pass, like I didn't know what to say, and I would say I'm still learning from that. 

32:17
There's moments where I'm like I don't know what the fuck to do here. You're going to have to beat that out. I'm sorry, I just don't. And it's a new situation. I'll talk to my friends, I'll talk to my husband, I'll reevaluate it and I will have dates with my kids. Once I have and I'll say you know what? Do you remember this moment? I would like to apologize for it and this is what I could have done better. That's how I've been trying to repair those moments. But yeah, for me it's like the more getting the children to do things and I'm learning that it's not getting them to do things, it's showing them it's in your value and in your rhythm right To do those things as a family. So I've been implementing that a little bit more, because being busy it doesn't become the rhythm, it's more like just get it done. So I'm trying to slow that down for my family. But that's where my current conflict is, I guess. Pick up your underwear, pick up the bathroom, you know all those good things. 

33:05 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, and it's so hard when you think like, just listen to me, like I know, we just need to have this bathroom cleaned up. 

33:12 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Why are we? 

33:13 - Katie Fenske (Host)
fighting. 

33:13 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
Exactly, exactly. Do you ever find yourself where you're like wow. The only things I've said to my kids is orders. 

33:22 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yes, no, no, no, no. 

33:24 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Yeah, don't do that yes exactly that's when it gets ugly for everybody, because you're not making that connection. Um, say hey, what are you doing right now? And then connecting oh, that looks lovely that you're playing with those Legos. Um, but sometimes it's not always like that. You're like hey, you left your undies in the bathroom instead of yeah, you yeah, we don't like being ripped out with what we're doing when they come ask us. It's the same for them, right? There's no difference and we forget, we're human yeah human. 

33:55 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
Okay, so my fail has to do with anger issues. Um, I grew up with a dad who was really really angry all the time, and we lived in a house where it was like we're dealing with someone who's incessantly shouting or silent treatment for weeks, and so it's funny, when you have kids of your own, you're so convinced you're never going to do that. And I was talking to some friends about how it's really weird and crazy feeling like when I get into these rageful moments, when I just erupt at my kids. I was talking about how and I wrote about this recently how it feels like my dad is channeling through me. It's like almost like the rage isn't coming from me, it's coming from my dad and it's it's like almost like the rage isn't coming from me, it's coming from my dad and it's it's it's being directed toward my kids. You know it's. 

34:51
When I told a couple of friends about this you should pull energetic cords and I'm like what is that woo-woo stuff that you're talking about? But I went to see this woman. She did pulling energetic cords. It's just basically this way to say that, like someone works with you to like pull away bad energy that may not be serving you. So this bad energy was, you know, this anger that I'm still holding on from my childhood? 

35:22
And you know, we did this weird ritual and pulled out these imaginary cords, sent it to the earth and then, after leaving that session, I'm like how am I going to know if this works, you know? And I'm like I went to bed that night thinking like, okay, I guess I won't know if this works for a while. And the next morning, as I was getting ready for school with the kids, my kids were being normal kids, saying normal things like I don't want that apple, I want a pear. You know, can you get me a spoon? And I was noticing, as they were saying these things, that normally when they say these things, I'm filled with tiny rage, like I'm like you get the spoon yourself. 

36:08 - Katie Fenske (Host)
You know like in my head. 

36:10 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
Right you asked me nicely. 

36:11 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, demand. 

36:13 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
Exactly, and and I realized that I'm filled with all this like mini rage all the time that I keep inside and I'm wondering like, wow, do I do this? And then one day that I can't handle it anymore, it just comes out. And so that session really just made me realize like, oh, I've got this like other anger that I didn't even realize that I need to work on. But anyway, that morning I felt neutral about all the things they said that morning. But I think that that session worked because it gave me information, it gave me awareness of, like the anger that's inside me and the anger that I can work on healing. Um, I don't think that it's new to any parent that they feel bad, that they've yelled at their kids. Um, yeah, we all, we all do it. We all do do it. 

37:05 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
We all have that moment where we're like oh my god, my throat is vibrating right now. When you're done with it, you're like your mouth it's like you're, it's kind of like after you throw up. You're like it feels better, but then you're like, but then it doesn't. 

37:17 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, you know all that. It is not pleasant, right it? 

37:21 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
is. It is our, our childhood, uh, you know, up to us, catching up to us, and it's whatever stage your child is in. Where you have the most difficulties tends to when you whatever you had a difficult say you had a difficult time at eight and when your child becomes eight, that might be the time you have the most difficult time, uh, raising your child, cause you're still dealing with your stuff. 

37:41 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Oh, interesting. 

37:41 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
So with that theory, uh, my nightmares are going to be happening. 

37:52 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Well, that's okay. That was. I was going to ask you um what stage of motherhood so, like, are you looking forward to the teen years, like, have you enjoyed the baby stage? And then you're like, oh no, that's coming. How are you feeling about? 

38:00 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
it. I did not enjoy the baby stage. 

38:03 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I think that's fine to admit to some people were like I hate to admit this and I'm like, oh my God, no, it was hard. 

38:10 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
It was. It's hard to say that out loud because I felt like lesser of a mom, because I did not enjoy my children as babies, Um, and I felt like what's wrong with me? I? 

38:22 - Katie Fenske (Host)
you can't talk to him. I'm a mom You're supposed to love every minute. 

38:25 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
I'm a great conversationalist and conversing with a one-year-old is impossible. Um, I feel like I I don't know. I'm just taking each, each phase as they come, and deal with it as they come and try not to worry about the later. You know, like I told you, we have our teenage nephew move in with us when he was 15. And I think that the biggest thing that I realized is that these earlier years are so important because we're so hands on, they want to be with us. It's not like when they're, when they're teenagers. It's not necessarily that they don't want to be with us, but they're figuring out who they are. So I remember, like I used to be like what the heck is, what are we doing wrong? When he'd come home and shut the door, you know, to his room and, um, I read somewhere that says, like they're not shutting the door on you, they're opening the door to themselves. 

39:24
When they're safe when they're when they're like keeping to themselves. You know right. 

39:29 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Someone told me too, with teens, don't take anything personal. Personally, don't take it personal like what they say, how they act, and it's like, yeah, that's a total example of that. 

39:40 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Yeah, I don't know. I guess my answer to that would be and I and I seem like I'm always dipping my toes in two sides, but I do like my life every day. I like to. I, when I review my life at the end of the day I look at both ends of the coins. I'm like, well, that end of the coin needs to be polished and that end of the coins pretty shiny. Yeah, so I would say that I enjoyed, I've enjoyed it all thoroughly so far, like I loved being a mom. I loved breastfeeding and having connections with my kids and having them play with my necklaces and talking to them and just seeing the world through their little eyes and seeing all the stages. I would say the hardest time was when my children started to verbalize and they were between three and four and you know telling me no, you know that thing and trying to be like, okay, well, I'm going to be firm, but loving that kind of thing. 

40:30
Um, I do look forward to the teenage years because, um, I feel like that's when like piggybacking on what, what Steph just said you know they are their own human beings and they're discovering themselves. 

40:44
So being able to form a relationship with who they're becoming and being able to travel more and do more of the worldly experiences that maybe I haven't even experienced and sharing it with them. And I remember, actually that was probably the best relationship I had with my parents. I feel like they were young parents, so from, like I don't know, 11 and under, I told them I gave you all a C minus and I'm saying this because I've told them that but from 11 plus, I feel like my parents were definitely a strong B plus, a minus. I felt like they were upfront with me about life. They also protected me and told me you know, this is the reality of this, but you know, gave it to me when I was ready. So I look forward to that part. I feel like the stage that my daughter is in now is when I had the hardest time as a child. So that's what I, why I feel like I'm working on that right now and I'm arguing with her because I'm arguing with myself. 

41:37
So so, yeah, I think that looking forward to you know you helped create this child, but really they're their own entity and really getting to know what they're going to have to offer, already hearing their dreams and just being able to have that. And, on the other hand, though I'm not looking forward to I don't know like the restrictions of this, is the time you have to be home and really being like I want to trust. So you know much that when they're in the car they're going to do the right thing. When they're not going to be on their phone, you know, like letting go those strings of natural stress that you're worried about. When your children are out, are they going to be looking around and you know, as a boy or girl, if you know they go to the store late, you know it's stuff we have to do. 

42:22 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
That was such a shock when, when our nephew came to live with us, he's like when do you want me home? And I'm like wait a minute. 

42:33 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
It's another thing. And even my daughter yeah, my daughter's like when am I going to be able to be like dropped off? I'm like, is it 13? You know, and I told her, you know it might be be around 13, but as you show me that you can handle things, that's when I will give them to you, their opportunities yeah, because it depends on them, right? Yeah, so anyway, yeah, letting go. I think that's going to be. The hard part for me is their own. 

42:54 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
Well and be okay, with the expectation that they have to mess up so they actually learn, because that's how we I mean that's how I operate know I have to mess up to, to learn exactly what I need to do next You're like it's your mom's, like it's hot, it's hot. 

43:09 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
You're like it's hot, touching, touching verify it. 

43:14 - Katie Fenske (Host)
You're going to learn it. Okay, let's talk a little bit about your podcast, because it is so fun to listen to. How did it come to be? How did you guys decide to start a podcast? 

43:26 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
All right, true story. So here we go I have. When I was pregnant, I was journaling and kind of manifesting like these experiences, like okay, this is what it's like to be a first time mom. The honesty I was writing down was like some of it was embarrassing. I'm like this is happening in my body, this is what's going through my mind. And then I, as it was going, I was like okay, now I kept journaling and deep inside I'm like this would be fun to share this, like in a real time journaling kind of conversation. And it kind of sat with me. 

43:58
I met, did mention to my husband and it was always a back burner, like you should do it, you should do it, and it was always like it was always the last thing I would give energy to. So it never manifested Like at the end of the day I'm like I just want to sleep, I didn't want to do anything else. So it came to the point of my kids were old enough Now. They were at school. Um, I was able to have my own thoughts without being interrupted and able to hang out with great friends. We went to a medium on my 40th birthday. So for circle with that. Question number two you gave us um, had never gone, never had really, you know, never really had a feeling of I need to go to medium, I need to go to psychic. I was like, eh, but I was like, well, why not? One of my friends knew her and she's actually been on our podcast. 

44:39
Yeah, I was like it's 40. It's something fun to do. And so we went to Kelly and I went with Steph and my our other friend, sarah, and we had a little day and she told me she goes. You know that she was. You're an entrepreneur at heart and that dream you've been manifesting and you need to make it happen. It's going to be successful. 

44:59 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
And I always wanted to channel through your uncle. It was just through Kelly. Oh, it was through Kelly, yeah, and kelly, oh it was through kelly, just through kelly, yeah. 

45:05 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
And so I was like, okay, but I always wanted to co-host, like you and I I was like I just love that banter. I love because I I feed off of it. It's just something that I love to have and I've, ever since I had the first conversation with this gal, I was like I love talking to her like she knows my humor, we, we get each other. And so right after that we were at lunch and I'm like hey, you know that thing, she's talking about it. 

45:31 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Then you're in that, you want to do that with me. 

45:34 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
You want to be, I want to do a podcast. And she was just like yes, and what this was like, I don't know. We had a slumber party. We have slumber parties sometimes and because our kids a slumber party, we have slumber parties sometimes, and because our kids have slumber parties, and she comes over and my husband's gone and we do business trips, and I said what made you say yes? She said I said yes to you and that was such a gift that she said that. I was like, oh my god, but anyway I um, from then we had meetings and just kind of I messed around with some titles. I was like, and I, the title Real Motherfuckers was the third one, it was supposed to be a joke and Steph goes, that one, that's the one I'm like. All right, like there it is. 

46:16 - Katie Fenske (Host)
The rest is kind of Love that, well, that's what you were journaling about. The real stuff that no one really talks about. 

46:22 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
The real stuff, that's embarrassing and uncomfortable and real stuff that no one really talks about, real stuff that's embarrassing and uncomfortable, and it's not just a motherhood podcast. That's what? Yeah, that's what we're realizing it's. 

46:35
It's a it's a podcast about all things you know, difficult and beautiful in life, that we would like to share, because there's people who feel alone and not heard and not seen and they think, oh well, is this? Am I the only one feeling this? Am I abnormal? Just saying no, you're not like, you're not abnormal. This, these are feelings that you're allowed to have and now we're trying to share. We have also professionals that come on our podcasts that talk to you, know about you know we're going to have a crisis counselor on how to deal with that, how to deal with grief. What kind of birth do you want to have? We have specialists. We have dads that have been on. We have I mean, it's been we've had a sex traffic victim that's been on and how she survived and what happened during her life to lead her to that being what happened to her. So it's just a plethora of a lot of things. 

47:22 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I guess Even a voice to all these stories. A voice to it. 

47:26 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
I feel like I want to ask you too, is like with your podcast. I mean, isn't it incredible how much we learn from all of our guests? 

47:34 - Katie Fenske (Host)
And it's more than I thought that I would learn and like each person that reach out to you, you're like, oh my God, yeah, like I have someone coming on talking about divorce. And you're like, yes, like, how do you navigate that with kids? Or your child's going blind. How do you deal with that? 

47:51 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
It's incredible, yeah, and I feel like I we take a part of not a part of them, but they become a part of us and we become a part of them. And I also think that you know, and I see that you're in your platform, you're doing it well, but it's it's not like if you added labels to us politically and everything like Steph and I are not like, oh yeah, we check all those boxes. There's differences between what we believe, and I think we're trying to say it's okay to not believe those things in a world where, if you don't, you're not my friends anymore or you don't talk to anybody anymore. 

48:24
It's like, no, we can talk about it. This is how I came to the conclusion to believe that this should be right, or we should vote this way, or I believe these people should have rights, and whatever it is, it's nice to not yell, it's nice to listen and it's nice to see how someone came to the conclusion that that is right for them yeah, and that it's okay to not agree and do it in a respectful way. 

48:47
I think that's what we're trying to also showcase on our podcast. Is that level of respect and trying to understand, being like you know what? I might not still agree with you, but I respect you and I'm one step closer to holding you know, to reaching out the hand and be like let's meet halfway. 

49:02 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Amen. 

49:02 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
We need that this year right, yeah, we do, we do. 

49:06 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Especially this year. 

49:07 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
Yes. 

49:07 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yes, okay. Well, if we want to find your podcast, how do we find you? 

49:12 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
Well, we're on all platforms. We have a website too. If you want to check us out there, it's wwwrealmotherfuckerspodcastcom. Awesome. 

49:22 - Katie Fenske (Host)
We're on. 

49:22 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
Instagram. We're on um. We have a video podcast as well, so you can check us out on youtube video on spotify, we're on apple follow them on instagram. 

49:32 - Katie Fenske (Host)
That's where I found you guys, yeah I know you too. 

49:36 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Yeah, I love it other fuckers podcast, so yeah, yeah, we do shenanigans, you know we, we play around. I love making people laugh and I love laughing in the process. So I have, I have roped her in and she's like the last post was she wrote me and she's like we got to do this nighttime thing while we're here in Nashville, but it's like it's it's fun, you know, it's fun to make someone smile and I really think that that's yeah. 

50:02 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I think that's why we connected because I've tried to do like the warm and fuzzy social media and I'm like I think I just want to make people laugh like I just yeah, we need to find more humor makes you funny, I should say. 

50:12 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
I'm trying to wrap my head around about hairy legs in the springtime and, like being real, about pale hairy legs, oh, do it. So I'm trying to find you know if anyone if you guys go to our Instagram you got any suggestions for music. I'm working to find you know if anyone if you guys go to our Instagram you got any suggestions for music. 

50:26 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I'm working on it. Right now I don't have to write this one on my own Like a sass watch coming out of the phone. Yeah, something I'm going to, I don't know. 

50:33 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Right now I'm trying to my husband's going to be like what I need to film your legs. 

50:38 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Okay, wait, is he on social media? 

50:50 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Cause not on Instagram, and that, I think, is why I'm like, okay, he doesn't see what I'm doing and that's cool. Like I don't follow them, go do your work thing. Yeah, no, my husband does not have Instagram anymore. He's not a very he's a very introverted person and yeah there, it's just you know, we try to respect them as well. Or if I say, hey, I might mention this. Are you okay with it? I get permission. 

51:05 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, yeah. I'm like oh, I'll just do my thing over here. 

51:09 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Yeah, exactly, exactly. 

51:11 - Katie Fenske (Host)
A random person at football was like oh, I think I saw you, are you that burnt pancake? And I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, like people in my real life can see that I forget. 

51:22 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
I forget that. 

51:27 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
A weird phenomenon, yeah. 

51:28 - Katie Fenske (Host)
It is really weird. I wanted to ask you how'd you come up with your name? Um, okay, so I was potty training my oldest son and it was a nightmare. Um, he just pooped his pants all the time and I was hanging out with my good friend Megan. Um, we would just hang out in her backyard, like every evening, or both our husbands worked late and so it'd be like bring your kids over at three, they'll play, we'll feed them, and then you can go home and put him in bed. And he pooped his pants in her backyard again and I was like oh, my God. 

51:55
I am dying and she's like Kate, don't worry about it, Everyone burns their first pancake. And I was like, okay, Like that was the moment. I don't know why it struck me so much, but it was like I don't have to be perfect. 

52:08
I love that it is okay If I'm screwing this one up and my second and my third like. So, when I was trying to come up with the concept of, like we're moms, we're making mistakes, it's okay, and I went through again all the names, like everything was taken. There's like a domain for everything that you want, um, and then I looked at my husband. I was like what about? Like you know, everyone burns their first pancake, like burnt pancakes. And so we went with that. 

52:34
So are you sure we're buying a website called burnt pancakes? Yes, but you're right. It was that like inner knowing. I was like, yes, yes, I'm doing this. I don't know where it's going, but yeah, yes, it's called the mom instinct. 

52:48 - Vanessa Anderson  (Guest)
It was totally. 

52:51 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, and that led me to quitting my teaching job and you know crazy road. But it was that forties midlife pause that I was like something's got to change. 

53:00 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
That's right, girl, pause, pause, pause and repeat. Yeah Well, good for you. I love that story. I think that's really cute. I love it. 

53:08 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I was like, because my friend's like are people going to think it's like a cooking show? And I'm like, oh God, I hope not. 

53:13 - Stephanie Cooley (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, you put it out there, you put the feeling and people feel it For real, yeah. 

53:19 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Oh well, I wish you guys the best of luck with your podcast and I so appreciate having you guys on. This was awesome. So everyone, please go listen to the podcast. These two ladies were such a joy to talk to. I think you're going to have so much fun. I follow them on social media too and I love their content, so go check them out and, if you haven't already, go watch some of these episodes on YouTube, because I have a YouTube channel where all of these episodes are videoed and you can come watch us. Come follow me on social media, follow the podcast. Get ready for another conversation, because I've got another one coming out Friday and I love having you here. So until next week. I want to remind you that everyone burns their first pancake. No-transcript.