98. Being a Gen X Mom Raising Gen Z Daughters with Jaime Townzen

Let's Discuss Jaime's Book Together: Click HERE if you are interested in having a book club in June with her book Absorbed

Jaime Townzen never imagined her path would lead from the watercolor canvas to the pages of her debut novel. Yet, amidst the chaos of motherhood and unexpected caregiving roles, she discovered profound insights and resilience.

 Jaime discusses her journey from stay-at-home mom to caregiver for her elderly parents. Her creativity became a lifeline, helping her maintain a sense of self while raising teenagers and caring for aging parents.

Jaime talks about what inspired her to write her debut novel, Absorbed. Her story, set against the backdrop of the '90s, draws from personal experiences as a lifeguard and mother, weaving humor and pop culture into the challenges of adolescence. It's a narrative that encourages understanding and dialogue, inviting listeners to reflect on the power of creativity at any stage of life.

Parenting teenagers is no small feat, especially when dealing with ADHD and the pressures of academics. The conversation with Jamie highlights the importance of unconditional love, empathy, and open communication. By fostering environments where teens feel safe to express themselves and pursue their dreams, parents can better navigate the complexities of adolescence. 

As Jaime prepares her daughter for college, she shares the bittersweet mix of emotions that come with watching your child embark on their own journey. 

Connect with Jaime:

website: www.jaimetownzen.com

Her Book: Absorbed by Jaime Townzen 

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/jaimegetscreative 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jaime.townzen/ 

Tiktok: https://tiktok.com/@jaimegetscreative 

📺 Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOpw5ui4uxJHx0tLFVtpnfSkpObfc4d-K

You can find Katie at:
website: burntpancakes.com
YouTube: @burnt.pancakes
Instagram: @burntpancakeswithkatie
Email: katie@burntpancakes.com

🚽 Did you know Katie is also a Certified Potty Trainer? 🚽

☎️ Schedule a 1:1 chat today: Schedule Here
💻 Digital Potty Training Course HERE
📖 Potty Training E-Book HERE
🆓 FREE potty training resources HERE
Instagram: @itspottytime
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Transcript

00:09 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Hello, hello and welcome back to the burnt pancakes podcast. I'm your host, Katie Fenske, reminding moms that everyone burns their first pancake. Now, before we get to today's incredible guests, let's talk a little bit about poop. Okay, I know I'm sorry, but as someone with young kids and working as a potty training consultant, this is actually something that comes up a lot, and today's podcast sponsor is here to help. If you are in the trenches of potty training or you're just trying to keep your little one's tummy happy, you need to check out Growing Up Prebiotics from Begin Health. This high-quality, gentle blend of prebiotics is designed to support your toddler's and young child's developing gut microbiome, helping with digestive comfort, regularity and softer stools, because no one likes dealing with those rock-hard surprises. Give your kiddo's tummy a boost it needs and make potty training and just general daily poop a little bit easier. I am giving it to my son and I have seen a huge difference in this area. Use code ITSPOTTYTIME for 10% off your purchase at Begin Health, because a happy gut means a happy kid. Now back to today's conversation. 

01:32
Today we're diving into motherhood, identity and the unexpected twist life throws our way. My guest today is Jamie Townsend. My guest today is Jamie Townsend. She is a internationally recognized watercolor artist, a storyteller across multiple mediums and now an author. Her debut novel, absorbed, is a coming-of-age 90s story that bridges the gap between Gen X moms and their Gen Z daughters. But beyond her creativity work, jamie's journey is one so many moms can relate to balancing the chaos of mothering teens while also stepping into that role of unexpected caregiver for aging parents. She's here to share her insights on navigating those challenging seasons, the surprising lessons she's learned over motherhood, and how prioritizing creativity can help moms reconnect to themselves. If you've ever felt like you're losing yourself in the daily grind of motherhood or struggling to get your teens to actually talk to you, this episode is a gem. So please enjoy my conversation with Jamie. Jamie, welcome to the podcast. 

02:43 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Thank you so much. It's so great to be here, Katie. 

02:46 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yes, I think we're. I'm going to pick your brain about a lot of teen stuff and just the point of life you're in right now. So I'm excited to hear your insights. But before we start, why don't you tell us how old your kids are, where you're from? 

03:00 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
I live in Southern California, in Seal Beach, and I have one daughter who's 18, about to graduate high school, and another who's 16. She just got her driver's license a couple days ago. And yeah, I, I have been on this wild ride of parenthood, figuring it out as I go, just like you. So like I would think, like, oh, when my kids are that age, you know I'm going to be that experienced mom, but it's almost like you're a new. 

03:22 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I would think like, oh, when my kids are that age, you know I'm going to be that experienced mom. But it's almost like you're a new mom all over again. It's a whole new stage that you're navigating and trying to figure out. 

03:33 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
It really is. Every stage is a new life lesson for me as they're figuring out their own lives, yeah. 

03:40 - Katie Fenske (Host)
And I don't know about you. Like I always worried that like that little baby, that little little kid, stage I'm like I'm just going to miss it so much. But I feel like each stage there's so much fun. Like I do miss when they were little, but I'm stage and there's those frustrating moments at every stage too, for sure, okay well. 

04:01 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Your journey as a mom and an artist now an author has kind of taken some unexpected turns, probably not what you thought your life would be. 

04:29 - Katie Fenske (Host)
What was the moment that pushed you to shift from being a stay-at-home mom to becoming an unexpected caregiver? 

04:36 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Oh, so our family in 2014, and I'm sure you can and a lot of your listeners can attest to this, and I'm sure you can and a lot of your listeners can attest to this In 2014, I had a second grader and a kindergartner and I had just accepted a position at their school to just work part-time. I was finally going back to working and I was like yay, a little time for me. 

04:58
We lived in Pasadena at the time and it was a private school, so it would help with their tuition also that I worked there private school, so it would help with their tuition also that I worked there. And we had notification the day after school started that we had to move out of the rental we were in. So we decided at that point we really talked and thought a lot about our choices and we decided to make the big shift from Pasadena to a beach community where they had great public schools. But that meant we would be picking up and moving two months into the school year and we would be getting to know a whole new school district and friends and everything. 

05:36
And then, two weeks before we moved, we lost my grandmother, who I was very close to, and two days before we moved we lost my father-in-law. So we were in the midst of this just really, you know, crisis moment and dealing with a lot of grief, and we, um, we came to seal beach and I had to give up my that job, that I was trying to have a little time to do adulting things and, um, and sadly that was the beginning of six years of loss. We lost eight people in those six years, and some of them to very hard to deal with terminal illness, one of them being um, my stepfather from Parkinson's. He passed away in January of 2020. 

06:22 - Katie Fenske (Host)
My dad had Parkinson's. 

06:24 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Oh, so hard to watch. 

06:26 - Katie Fenske (Host)
It's a lot. 

06:28 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Oh yeah, I'll let you keep going, but yes, well yeah, and then my stepsister, his daughter, at the exact same time that he was diagnosed with Parkinson's, she was diagnosed with ALS and she passed away after seven years, in 2019. And so, being a caregiver to them and my father was also hospitalized for about four months before he passed away In addition to being a caregiver for my children and really trying to hold it all together, with all this grief that then was bookended by the pandemic hitting, oh my God. 

07:02 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Like my stepdad, it was a lot. 

07:05 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Yeah, it was a lot to get all like, year after year and loss after loss, and I I really tried to. Um, I went to therapy. I had a great therapist who helped me work through a lot of my grief, and I was walking the dogs every day, listening to books and podcasts, but none of it was really helping me with the constant hum of anxiety and stress and grief that was going through my whole body because I was just pouring out to everyone else in every way possible and I wasn't filling my own cup. I really I was doing what people told me to do, but I wasn't really doing what my, my soul, my spirit really was doing what people told me to do, but I wasn't really doing what my soul, my spirit, really was calling for. So, in January or sorry, in July of 2020, after doom scrolling, like all of us were- to try and survive. 

07:57
I kept seeing these let's Make Art ads and Sarah Cray with let's Make Art was saying on social media, anyone can learn to watercolor and there's free tutorials on YouTube. 

08:09
And I decided to sit down and try it and what I gave myself in setting that time aside to learn how to watercolor first with one lesson every two weeks, then with a lesson every week, then maybe a lesson every day was time to reconnect with my creative self and that time actually gave me back so much peace. 

08:33
Those activities of just sitting there and focusing on something beautiful and putting it to paper with a brush was the meditative breathing that you do naturally when you're doing a creative act like that, the focus on something beautiful and positive and, um, that I wasn't doing it for any other purpose than just the the process, just the joy of it. There was. There was no deliverable expected at the end and, as Sarah says, it's just a piece of paper, so if hate it, you can just throw it away. And it was so freeing to me that that shift in my my perspective on how I was spending my time really changed everything about the way that I mothered and the way that I was a wife and a daughter and a caregiver to the people around me, because I started really making that time for myself and it gave me so much energy and joy to pour out to others as well. 

09:29 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Oh my gosh, that's a fascinating A few things came up that I thought of I was recently listening to. I wish I knew the name of the book, but a book that talks about how using the creative side of your brain helps with anxiety, and it was such like she goes into the science of it and why that happens, which is fascinating, but it made me like think, yeah, like if you put time into yourself and you get to that creative side. So I have recently picked up embroidery. I got a kit over Christmas and it had the video tutorials, cause I just thought like, oh, that looks like a fun thing to try. 

10:06
I cannot tell you how much I'm enjoying it and, you're right, how relaxed I feel. It puts my phone down so I'm not scrolling at night and I just kind of I, you're right, there's no, this has to be a project that I'm selling or doing. It's like I'm just doing it to do it. It's fun, it's relaxing, enjoyable, and I have now since completed like four projects and it is kind of like my me time now. 

10:33 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
I love that. It's so good. I mean, I I get a lot from going to yoga, I get a lot from going to breakfast with my girlfriends, but there's nothing quite as restorative as really just sitting and doing a creative act, even for five minutes. So from that point in 2020, I've really shifted how I start my day. Instead of picking up the phone and scrolling through it, I start with three pages of journaling just to clear my brain of all that stuff that's running around in it and stressing me out. And then I do a quick, a quick sketch in my sketchbook and I'll even watercolor it. Um, but just to start my day on that better place of of peace and and gratitude and joy for the ability that the ability to actually do creative things is such a gift that anybody really can find time for, and I think it really has helped me so much Were you always like drawn to art as a kid, or this is something. 

11:30
I was actually a really academic person. I was really good at school and I was really encouraged to be very academic um, because I was good at it. But I was surrounded by artists. So my grandmother that passed away in 2014 was she had gotten a dual master's in mathematics and fine art. Her daughter, my mom's twin sister, an aunt, is an English teacher and an artist, and my other stepsister was also an artist as I was growing up, so I was always surrounded by it, I was always intrigued by it and I always considered myself crafty, but I didn't think of myself as an artist until just a couple of years ago because I, I just I thought that I, you had to, you had to be someone formally trained to be an artist, major in it, yeah, yeah. 

12:22
And I've since accepted that if you create anything you are an artist. So a baker is an artist because they are creating, and my husband is exceptional at spreadsheets. He can make a spreadsheet do anything and that is an act of creativity. That is talent. 

12:42 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yes, and I I envy people who are like that. My husband's the same way. He's very. Yes, he can pack for a camping trip Like I'll see all the stuff out and I'm like there's no way this is ever going to fit and he can Tetris it into our back. 

12:57 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Yeah, I love that. 

12:58 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yes, um, is that your artwork behind you? 

13:01 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Yes, this is um some of my artwork. So, as I told you, I started watercolor in 2020. So the those two actually all three of these I had painted only in 2021. So these are old ones for me, but that's a pet portrait of my dog, blondie. That's one of the Plumeria that was growing on our we. We lived down on the boardwalkwalk and so our our yard was our roof and it was growing on our roof at that time. 

13:26
And then I spent my mother's day of 2021 painting that for eight hours, learning how to paint water drops, because it's covered in thousands of water. 

13:37 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Wow, and this is all just from like online tutorials that you took. 

13:40 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
I started with tutorials and it really opened my mind to learning more, and so I would do harder and longer tutorials and more complicated techniques, and then, as I was walking the dogs, I would take pictures of things. So, yeah, that rose is a rose. I passed on a walk, determined to figure out how to paint it, and so I just sat down and did it, and all of that then led to me actually being inspired to, because I was back to being a student and back to learning and creating. I ended up going back to get my master's in literature and writing in July of 2021 and by 15 months later, when I was finished, I had started the first 10,000 words of the book that has now become my debut novel. Um, because it just it opened up my brain to all of these possibilities and and I was so invigorated by the creativity Wow. 

14:37 - Katie Fenske (Host)
And this just shows, like you don't have to do something in your twenties Like you majored in this. Like don't have to do something in your twenties Like you majored in this, like you know, I can be 40 something and start a podcast. Like that was not on my my list of things to do when I was 20. I love that. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about your book. I'm going out of order from the questions. So your new book, your novel, um absorbed. It's a coming of age 90 story that bridges Gen Z moms with no Gen X moms. I'm always sticking those with Gen Z daughters. So how did that book come about? I love, love that idea. How did it come about? 

15:18 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Well, as a mom of two teenage girls and just determined to write my first novel, I really asked myself, as so many people are told to do. You know, what do I know about that I can write a lot about, and being around teenage girls. 

15:33
I can absolutely write about the experiences of teenage girls what it feels like to be a teenage girl. I was that and I also see it daily, and I also I wanted a setting that I had fond memories of and that I found a lot of kind of humor in as well. I happened to be a lifeguard in the nineties at a community pool way out in the boonies of San Bernardino County and I always kind of felt like the environment where I worked was like Caddyshack a little bit. 

16:04
So I really thought like this is a great way to show my own teenage daughters and their friends that I get what they're going through, because I can like really put it all out there in this story of this 17 year old girl getting her first summer job with her crush feeling insecure about putting on the bathing suit and how she's going to look every single day, having to walk around this pool in just a bathing suit and crushing on her best guy friend at the same time, and how she rejects her mom's help and she gets herself into this big mess, experimenting with drugs and alcohol, and her first sexual encounter is not what she hoped and I wanted them to see that we understand it because we really lived through it. 

16:58
And I wanted the Gen X mom moms to be drawn into this story that's so familiar to them, that's filled with the pop culture of our own teenage years there's music. There's k-rock playing in the background k-rock. 

17:11 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, she's going to show me in the mornings. 

17:13 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Yep, that's the premiere of independence day on july 3rd. Oh my gosh, all of these things are happening that I knew would draw on the gen x moms and then could maybe open that dialogue Like why wasn't Stacey talking to her mom in the beginning? 

17:28 - Katie Fenske (Host)
And what? 

17:30 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
what did her mom actually offer? Was she going to rip her apart and like punish her forever? Or was she really empathetic to what it's like to go through this experience? And because I'm the writer, I get to decide how it goes. So of course, the mom is like empathetic and understands and had gone through her as well, who helps get um Stacy, get an emotional and sort of um artistic new perspective on things as well. So it was great to tie all of that into this one story that would hopefully bring together um moms and daughters. 

18:22 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Oh, have your daughters read it yet? 

18:26 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
So this is the funny thing I don't know how much you follow like other, you know like celebrity people, but they always laugh. Like my wife and daughters don't watch my, you know, jason Bateman, they don't take me seriously or whatever. Like so many celebrities say that. And my husband has been the greatest. He read the first draft, he read the second draft. He's been my greatest champion in all of this. My girl's friends have read it. My girl's friends' moms have read it. But I think they're just. They've told me they're like mom. We know that some of this is like drawn from your own experience. 

19:02 - Katie Fenske (Host)
And we don't want to know. 

19:03 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
We don't want to imagine our mom in this scenario. 

19:06 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I get it. I get it. I think she will someday. 

19:09 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
but Right, right, my nephew, though my nephew is 16 and he read it as his outside reading for his honors. English class. 

19:19 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Oh, wow, wow. Is the book meant for like adults, or could it also be like a young adult book? 

19:29 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
I would say it's an older young adult, she is 17, the protagonist and it's definitely meant for anyone who is coming of age or has come of age. I've had, I've had great feedback even from boomer moms who are now grandmas to teenagers I raised were the mom at that age and they were like I was right there as the teenager's mom and wanting to shake her like wake up, what are you? 

19:53 - Katie Fenske (Host)
doing. The 90s are totally back in style now, so this is like hitting perfect. Is that the cover in the background? Yes, okay, tell me about the cover, because Cause that is so cute. 

20:04 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
So, again, like having fallen in love with art and watercolor again, I um last, uh, when the book was finished. I had this epiphany one day while walking the dogs everything you know comes to me while I'm walking the dog. 

20:19 - Katie Fenske (Host)
No, that is where I heard you get lots of downloads when you're just quiet and out in nature. 

20:24 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Yes, I heard, you get lots of downloads when you're just quiet and out in nature, yes, showers. So I I knew what I needed the book cover to be and I just came home and I opened up Canva and I started putting it all together and I was doing an art show in September and I had it out like talk to me about this and I got so much great feedback on it that when we were actually designing the cover for the book in October, my art director for the cover gave me 10 different suggestions of art and I was like, sorry, none of them are quite like mine. So she ended up using the art that I made and so you did the cover. 

21:05 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I did my own cover I love it, hold it up again for everyone on YouTube so they can see it. Hold up the cover again. It is so cute. Oh my gosh, I love it. Um, I actually follow someone on Tik TOK who is a book cover designer, and so she'll go through and show like the the 10 revisions to get to the final product. It's so interesting to see, like how a book cover can transform, but I love that you had so much control over. 

21:33 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
It was so wonderful because I mean especially for my debut novel I just had so much pride and looking at it and and knowing that you know this brain created this and like if it's attracting, you know, great readers. 

21:49 - Katie Fenske (Host)
And just the fact that you were able to get a book out of you like that to me seems like such a huge accomplishment. I'm like how do you sit down and do a book start to finish? That's incredible. 

22:00 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
It's great when you can turn on nineties music and be inspired. 

22:03 - Katie Fenske (Host)
It's great when you can turn on nineties music and be inspired, love it. Okay. So let's talk then a little bit about parenting teenagers. So, like how do you, what are some of the struggles with parenting teenagers? How do you navigate that? 

22:17 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Well. So it's interesting. Um, you know, I know you like to ask people what their burnt pancake moment is way too many of too long, but it really, um, it really does tie into the when, the time when my parenting style with our girls really shifted. Um, so when our oldest daughter, who's 18 now, when she was in sixth grade, um, she had gone from in elementary school being just this, really outgoing, bubbly, helpful, award-winning kid, doing great in all of her classes, all of her studies, rather. And then she got to middle school. She had seven classes, two lockers and her ADHD had always been unmedicated at that point, because we didn't want to medicate her too soon. And it it, she, it was like she hit a brick wall. She couldn't keep up with the assignments. She would leave something in the car or in the locker and then they'd give her detention if she needed to go get it. She was getting in trouble all the time and she just started shrinking inside and retreating to her room and becoming angry and becoming very just distant. 

23:33
At the same time, I was having meetings with the administrators at the school, trying to get a 504 plan. I was setting up doctor's appointments and pediatrician's appointments and psychiatrist appointments to try and get her medicated, and I was trying to figure all this out and I was so frustrated that this kid that I was doing all this for was just pulling away further and further from me, and at one point I just remember sitting there in the afternoon and asking myself, like in the afternoon, and asking myself, like, what do I want at the end of all of this, like 20 years from now? What will be the most important thing to me? Because I had been parented as I mentioned before. You know I was highly academic and so I was really pushed to be performative academically. So I had always thought, like well, you have to get good grades because you're smart Like I can help you get your homework done, I can keep you organized. 

24:33
And by doing that, I wasn't seeing what she really needed. 

24:38
She needed to know that I was her advocate for whoever she was. However, her life turned out no matter what, and I realized in that moment all I wanted at the end was a relationship with my daughter. I didn't care if she went to college or didn't go to college, if she found her passion at 12, where she found her passion at 42, it wouldn't matter to me, as long as she knew that she could always talk to me, that I would always be a safe place for her, that I was always on her side. And suddenly, like all of the tension around whether she turned in her homework or whether she had, you know, been late to class melted away and I was like, well, all right's, okay, but we're, we're still in this together, right, and to this day now, where she's graduating high school and, of her own accord really, truly, she did it all on her own is going to a four-year university in New York next fall and she's extremely talented in film and television and fashion design and like the makeup for film. 

25:48
I just see that she. She blossomed as soon as I gave her the space to figure out who she was and she it didn't. She is not my kid who gets straight. 

25:59
A's the other one is but that doesn't matter, it really doesn't. I needed to figure out that. She just needed. She just needed me to show her unconditional love and support. And now that I've you know many years ago now accepted that as my main priority, the whole way that I parent both of my kids is different. Including my younger one is very academic, very high anxiety about getting A's on everything. Being a starter on the basketball team, she's very. She just took her driver's test and she had to pass the first time. There would be no accepting anything less than passing the first time. And my way of parenting is that same thing of okay, well, I love you, no matter what you get on this test. My support, I'm so proud of you for working so hard. But I'm here to encourage you to get a good night's sleep and not stay up until 2 am. But it's okay to give yourself more grace and space to just be a teenager. 

27:07 - Katie Fenske (Host)
You don't get this time back, right, I bet that was so hard, though, to step back and cause, I mean, I have a almost an 11 year old and I do feel like I'm just trying to control it, still, like he doesn't really care too much about ghoul, and I'm trying to make him come in. It's like that's where we get into our butting heads, like I want you to care, I want you to you know, and he's just like it's fine, it's fine, mom. I, I got to see, isn't that great? I'm like it's funny. 

27:38 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
I don't know if your husband and you have the same personalities or not, but mine my husband has ADHD and ADHD and I didn't know him in his high school years, but his parents really struggled with parenting him in his high school years. He wouldn't get out of bed, he was late to school at a time, he was very disorganized, he didn't turn in a lot of things and he turned out highly successful. He just kept reminding me as long as we can get her safely through high school, we can just keep her foundation solid for her and just safely through high school, she's going to rule the world someday. 

28:16 - Katie Fenske (Host)
She's just not going to be able to convince her brain to care about things she doesn't care about, like trigonometry, like she doesn't care about trigonometry and she never will and sometimes we look at like our society and our school system and it's like it's it's kind of made for one type of person, but there are lots of different personalities out there and there are boys who won't sit through class. Like I'm looking at that and thinking like it's not made for them to sit all day. But you're right, just get them through and I I'm backing off now. I used to teach so I'm like homework needs to be turned in. But the other week we took a family vacation and I just said we're missing school and that's okay and we had a great time and that's our priority is like we had a good family time. 

29:02 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Yeah, because you figured out that the priority was that family time. I think too often as parents we um, we believe that our children are a reflection of us and so if they don't turn in their homework, it's because we failed. If they can't get their spelling words right, it's because we didn't hold them accountable to it right. And I think we really need to step back and say our children are not a reflection of us. We show them how to live in this world, but they make choices, they have free will as well, and they will live in this world the way that they want to. 

29:38
And it's whether we're going to be alongside them as a partner in that or we're going to expect them to figure it out on their own and just like the. I want them to know that we'll be their partner in that, right. But they don't want to be a reflection of us either, even though eventually, as they grow up like we have, they'll figure out they're actually so much like us. We are just like our own parents. They'll figure it out. But they don't want that. As they're coming into their teen years and through their teen years, they want to be an individual and they want to be seen as an individual. So the less we can consider everything they do to be a reflection on us, I think, the healthier it is for our relationships with our kids. 

30:15 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Oh, my God, that's such a golden nugget, especially like I thought that when they were little and they would get in trouble at the playground. Well, in trouble, you know, they're just being themselves, they're being active and physical. And I was like, oh, my kids are the ones that are always getting in trouble. It's me, I'm not parenting them Right, but they were just active, physical boys, like that's who they are. And when I do look at my older son, he talks back the way I talk back. You know like we're very like. 

30:41
I need to have the last word. He has to have the last word. I'm like we're so similar, yeah, and I need to just let them be. Let them be. 

30:54 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
It's funny when I was listening to your episode on embarrassing moments and it brings up all my own embarrassing moments. I think that we do feel that embarrassment because again it's that reflection on us and like a kid who's talking back to an adult, like no, you're not supposed to talk back to an adult. But I and I agree we need to, you know rein that in a little bit, but at the same time, like what about this confident, brave person who has their voice and can use it and and speak it with honesty and truth. 

31:22
That's something to be proud of. That is that confidence is great, just knowing how to appropriately apply it. But that's what they're figuring out right. 

31:31 - Katie Fenske (Host)
It's going to take him somewhere one day. That's going to be a great asset. Oh my gosh, so true. What about, like talking to girls? How do you get cause? I know a lot of parents of teenagers say their teens don't feel like parents listen to them. Like, how do you open up communication and make sure your teen feels comfortable talking to you about things? 

31:53 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
That's a great question and, um, I'm going to, I'm going to bring out a little pop culture reference here. Listen to Ted Lasso If you watch. 

32:01
Ted Lasso, you'll know the quote in which he talks about being curious rather than judging, I think for me, with my kids, I, and with their friends, I've positioned myself as somebody that they can talk to, because instead of passing judgment, instead of being critical all the time, I try to be curious, being critical all the time, I try to be curious. So there, you know, there are moments in teenagers lives and my oldest one went through it in her sophomore year of high school where they get invited to parties and they get exposed to things that you don't want them exposed to. Maybe they hang out with people you don't want them to hang out with. Instead of jumping to this conclusion that my kid is a bad kid and they've done all all these terrible things, instead of I'm going to punish you and lock you in your room forever and you're never going to get out like Rapunzel, instead just asking the question like so how did you feel when you were at this party and you realized that you know this kid's parents had no idea that he was throwing a party and that we might find out? How did that feel? 

33:08
And how did it feel seeing somebody that you had so much respect for, one of your friends get so drunk that she was, like you know, being fondled by somebody on the couch that she hadn't given permission. Like I know, you got mad at him, but how did that feel? Looking at her that way, also like what you know? What do you think should happen in the future? How can you, you know, help your friends make better choices, and how can you make the right choices for yourself so you don't find yourself in that position? I think curiosity is a much better way to approach the relationships with teenagers, because it shows that that you recognize that they might not have actually wanted to be in that position, or where you're giving them at least permission to share with you how they got there and why they got there, and if that was what they wanted in the first place. 

33:59 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I'm so impressed that you're so open with them, Like that's what I hope I can be like with my kids. Um, I was not super open with my parents, not that they weren't willing to. I just didn't ever feel like I wanted to talk to them about anything. We recently had to have the sex talk with my older son. 

34:17
And I was kind of like, okay, katie, we can do, like we're going to do this. And we did. We had the full talk and I let him ask questions and I said, hey, if anything comes up. And he's since then been like, what's this, mom? And I'm like, but it, it, I had to psych myself up for it. I'm like we're going to be open, we're we're going to share what like I want him to be able to come to me with things. 

34:39 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
So I'm so impressed that you were able to have those conversations with your girl, and it is so important that you did have that conversation and that he knows he can ask you those questions, because the reality is those questions are going to be there, whether you like it or not, and he's going to find the answers from somewhere Wouldn't you rather, he gets those answers from you or my dad and dad? 

34:59
Yeah, I have a couch that has stains on it from kids who have puked on it when they were brought here instead of being allowed to drive home, and I don't love that aspect of it, but I do love that those kids were safe and I love that they knew they could be safe here and that they were taken care of until they were able to be home. 

35:19
And I think I will always choose that over the alternative of being the strict, angry, trying to control parent, because I recognize that it doesn't work, just like you can't force a child to use the potty when they're a toddler, you can't make them go to the bathroom when you want them to. 

35:40
You can't force a teenager to not have these instincts and desires that they have, so it's much better that they have a safe place to talk about it and to learn the healthy ways to move forward in life with those instincts Right, I love it. 

35:55 - Katie Fenske (Host)
This is really eyeopening Cause I mean I'm I'm heading towards that. You know they're my fifth grader, is going to be in sixth grade next year, and then junior high, like it just seems like it's going so fast and I do want to prepare myself for that that stage. How are you preparing yourself for your daughter? 

36:14 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
leaving. Is that? Are you okay with it? Yeah, I'm trying to be really excited, I am. I am thrilled for her in so many ways, um, because this is her dream and she's and she's gonna, you know, be able to experience it coming true very, very soon. I am trying to look forward to getting to visit her in New York City and spend time with her in her world that she's creating for herself, and I'm also trying to remind her that, no matter what happens in her college experience, it's all going to turn out okay. 

36:46
I happen to have been a freshman who went straight to UCLA as a pre-med major and then had a professor say to me you're a freshman in an upper division English classes and you're leading the discussions. You're not a bio major like you, you're an English major. And realizing that that was the first time I had permission to follow what I wanted, and I shifted gears and I transferred schools and I went to a small liberal arts school midway through. But I also took classes at UC San Diego and I also studied abroad in Salzburg, austria, and I hope that both of my girls know that, no matter where they set out for college, no matter if they finish all four years in the same place or they go everywhere, like I did. That it's going to be okay and and they're going to have a beautiful experience figuring out who they are and the adult life they want to have. 

37:37 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, do you have plans? Are you taking her to school when she goes? 

37:41 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Yes, I mean we haven't had it figured out all together yet, but we've made deposits and we're meeting with housing department, so that'll be in September. 

37:49 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, we'll, we'll go out Are your girls close? 

37:56 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Like will it be hard for them to be separated? They are close in the way they're less than two years apart. They are a lot of their friends, have siblings that's the same other age and so they have a lot of mutual friends. That way. They both played basketball, so they they both hung out with a lot of the same people and I think it will be really hard for the young one to not have her older sister around, just because she's used to when she's frustrated with me going to her sister. That option won't be here anymore. But I think she's excited to have a little, you know, time with just mom and dad and not have the competition. 

38:28
I think I'm anticipating that they will get a little think I'm anticipating that they will get a little closer from the distance, that they'll reach out to each other more over the phone and zoom, and I'm so excited for my younger daughter to hop on a plane by herself to go stay with her. 

38:42 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I was going to say go visit her. Yes, I think it would be fantastic. Yeah, oh, that's awesome. Um. So, looking back at your journey, what's one lesson about motherhood you could share? Share with us. 

38:55 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Expect the unexpected. I guess I really am glad to be a teen mom now. I did not think that I would be a stay-at-home mom. I had really thought I loved my career before my kids were born and I thought I would, you know, do my maternity leave and be right back there. And I fell so in love with that baby and didn't want to leave her with other people. And we were blessed to be in a situation where we could make the bills you know, get paid with with me still at home, and so my, you know, everything shifted. And then again, you know, when I thought I was going back to work and I didn't like I still could make the best of each of those situations and expecting the unexpected in terms of each of my girls' personalities changing with each passing year, each passing stage of hormones and everything, and just just learning to go with it, I've become a much more flexible person and I think that that's actually a much happier, peaceful place for me to be too. 

39:58 - Katie Fenske (Host)
So, yeah, love that. Okay, when we need to get your book, where's the best place? As an author, where's the best place to get your book? 

40:06 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
While I understand that everybody really wants to support me and that's so great, I think it is available everywhere Amazon, Audible, Barnes and Noble. I happen to have book signings at lots of bookstores oh, how exciting this weekend at Huntington Beach Bella, Tara, Barnes and Noble. But I really encourage you to support your local bookstores and your local libraries by getting it that way. So I will be giving you, Katie, the information where they can just give the ISBN number to their local bookstore and order it directly or their local library If they don't want to buy it themselves. It still supports authors to get it through the library. I really love that. Libraries are out there supporting our communities with books available to them. 

40:51 - Katie Fenske (Host)
So love that. Well, thank you. I just love this conversation with you. I think you have so many great things to share about motherhood, so I really appreciate it. 

40:59 - Jamie Townzen (Guest)
Thank you very much. It's been so great talking to you about it. 

41:05 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I hope you enjoyed all of those amazing nuggets we got from Jamie today. I really, really enjoyed talking to her. I think we connected on the whole nineties thing and just getting her insights on what's ahead in my future for teens. So I loved speaking with her. I am going to get off right now and order her book and I think we should all do a little virtual book club. So if you are interested, I'm going to put a link below in the description. I'm not sure how fast I'll read the book, but let's say hopefully by May or June. Anyone who's read the book with me can hop on a Zoom call and we'll chat about it. Reminisce those days of high school. So check the link below if you want information about the book club, because I'm reading the book and I'd love to talk about it with all of you. So until next week. I hope everyone remembers that everyone burns their first pancake, so just keep flipping you.