102. The Tween Hygiene Crisis No One Talks About (Until Now) with Sabrina Yavil

Have you ever wondered why there are so FEW skincare products tailored specifically for boys? This week on Burnt Pancakes, I unravel the often-overlooked gender disparity in the skincare industry with Sabrina Yeville, the brilliant mind behind Gryme. 

Sabrina shares her journey from being a beauty industry executive to pioneering a line of clean, age-appropriate personal care products for our young boys. 

Together, we navigate the whirlwind adventure of balancing motherhood with entrepreneurship while tackling the challenge of raising boys who are constantly on the move yet in need of safe and effective hygiene solutions.

Join us as we discuss fragrances in children's skincare, a topic most of us have never considered deeply. 

Sabrina courageously reveals the intricacies of formulating her products, touching upon the difficulties she faced when working with fragrance suppliers and the myths surrounding natural scents. 

Her commitment to transparency and safety while crafting appealing products for boys is nothing short of inspiring. 

Our conversation is filled with laughter and heartfelt moments as Sabrina and I share our entrepreneurial journeys, with all the bumps and victories along the way. From the joys of creating a product line that resonates with our values to the challenges of juggling business with family life, we cover it all. 

CONNECT WITH SABRINA:
Website: www.gryme.co
--- 20% off with code BURNTPANCAKES20 
--- or with this link: https://gryme.co/discount/BurntPancakes20
--- Get it on Amazon: https://amzn.to/42ZNpT9
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/gryme.co/

📺 Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOpw5ui4uxJHx0tLFVtpnfSkpObfc4d-K

You can find Katie at:
website: burntpancakes.com
YouTube: @burnt.pancakes
Instagram: @burntpancakeswithkatie
Email: katie@burntpancakes.com

🚽 Did you know Katie is also a Certified Potty Trainer? 🚽

☎️ Schedule a 1:1 chat today: Schedule Here
💻 Digital Potty Training Course HERE
📖 Potty Training E-Book HERE
🆓 FREE potty training resources HERE
Instagram: @itspottytime
Tiktok: @itspottytime_

Transcript

00:09 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Hello, hello and welcome back to the Burnt Pancakes podcast, the place where we get real about motherhood, mess ups and everything in between. I'm your host, katie Fenske, and I'm reminding moms that everyone burns their first pancake. Now today I'm chatting with the incredible Sabrina Yeville, longtime beauty industry exec, mom of three boys and founder of Grime, a clean personal care brand made specifically for teens and tweens. After nearly two decades working with brands like Clinique and Bumble and Bumble and Rodan and Fields, sabrina noticed a major gap in the market. Where were the safe, age appropriate products for kids, especially boys? So, like any good mom on a mission, she decided to create it herself. 

00:55
We talk about what it's like leaving the corporate world, raising three boys while building a brand, and the not so glamorous reality of teaching kids about hygiene. If you've ever wondered what actually is in your kid's shampoo or had to beg your teen or tween to wear deodorant, this episode is for you. Sabrina, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, it's nice to be here. Well, I'm going to say and this might sound very strange, but you are the reason my son can now shower or does shower. I hope that doesn't sound weird and creepy, but we need to talk about how you got my kid to actually want to shower, amazing. All right, well, you start by introducing yourself and just tell us how many kids you have and where you're from. 

01:39 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Sure, so we were just talking. So I'm originally from Los Angeles and we were chit-chatting about the fires, but I live up in the Bay Area now in California. We've been here for about 10 years and I went to school across the Bay, so it's kind of nice to be back up here and I have three kids now. I have three boys, and they are seven, nine and 11. Oh my God, wow, yes. 

02:03 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Okay, we're God, wow, yes, okay, we're almost the same. What are your ages? Almost 11, seven and five. Okay, yeah, all right, so we're in it. 

02:18 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
We are in it and it's so much fun and it is um shocking and frustrating and sweet and unexpected and all of those things. And I'm an only child, so, like all of the whole sibling thing and the birth order and the boy and I was raised by a single mom I am out of my element all the time. Am out of my element all the time. Totally. My husband don't tell him he is my fourth child he has. He's, you know, works really hard and then, you know, two seconds before bed he just decides to rile everybody out. Yeah, let's wrestle everyone. I'm just like get of here. 

03:03 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I've worked so hard to get to this point. Get them in bed, yeah, it's my, it's my time off. 

03:09 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
They have to go to sleep now. Yeah, so it's been. It's been a wild ride. We're a. We're a party of five. 

03:16 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I love it, I love it. I same with you, like the boy thing has thrown me for a loop. I was raised with one sister and boys are just different. They're, they're different. 

03:28 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
I like constantly. 

03:29 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I'm just like I did not know motherhood would be like this raising boys. 

03:35 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Oh, I'm constantly shocked. 

03:37 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yes, Are they always loud and always moving? 

03:42 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
I don't have an introvert in the bunch. So, yes, even my least active kid is on the move. They are into sports and they get my middle one. I call him a golden retriever. He needs to be like walked. If he doesn't have enough exercise in the day, he gets like really cranky and agitated. So he is probably my most active, followed by my youngest, and then my oldest is my most lethargic, but he is. You know, he's moving into that teen territory soon, so he is embracing it. He's got a Snuggie on and his podcasts. 

04:21 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Right, they want to wear like pajama pants all day. You can't wear that to school. Those are pajamas, he's like. 

04:29 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Oh he is. He is completely embracing teen life, even though he's only 11. I mean, he's got the dishes in the piled up in the bedroom. I mean he really he thinks that he's just like living on his own. He is out there on an iceberg by himself on his own. He is out there on an iceberg by himself and, yeah, he's loving life. He's, you know, graduating fifth grade, moving on to middle school. So it's like really exciting. Yes, we're in that transition One more year. 

04:55 - Katie Fenske (Host)
They go up to sixth grade in elementary, so one more year before that middle school. But he definitely is acting like he wants to be older. Yes, they are, it's fun. And I look at him and I still think, oh, you're such a little kid still. But I'm like, why are you calling me bro? And like talking back? I'm like don't argue, why are you arguing with me? 

05:19 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
I'm the same way. I constantly remind him that I am the gatekeeper to his entire life. But yeah, it doesn't keep him from pushing boundaries. His new hobby is, you know, the boy. Some of the boys like get on their bikes and they ride downtown and they're going to the burger place Like this is the new found independence. It's actually pretty cute, yeah. But yeah, I'm like wow, we're, we're really, we're really embarking on this, you know, independent life. 

05:47 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I'm loving it. It's that fine line between like I, I want you to experience that, but I'm not quite sure I'm ready to just trust you were the world. You know my son keeps going. Can I ride my bike down? There's like a a little market around here, little market around here, maybe less than a mile. But I'm like I, just I, yes, but uh, it also makes me nervous, like and he wants to go with his brothers and I'm like your five-year-old brother cannot do that. Just the three of you. I'm like right, but then just like little things that he wants to do. Like he wants to like go to the snack bar by himself and use my phone to pay with a. 

06:22
Venmo and I'm like, okay, just please bring my phone back, like don't leave it at the snack bar, cause he's still that too, that like impulsive kid. That's just like, ooh, whoops, I forgot it, I don't know where it is Right. Do you feel like your younger one is growing up faster because he has older brothers? 

06:40 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
A hundred percent. I mean he's, he's almost 17. Yeah, yeah, he a hundred percent. He skipped over all of that. My two, so my two oldest, are only a year and a half apart and they were fricking frack. I mean, they literally had all the same interests. I thought they were twins Cause I had to buy the same toy times. Two they would dress up, you know, in superhero clothes and out like Transformers. It was like so adorable. And then my youngest one skipped over all of that developmental play and went straight to Pokemon cards and video games. 

07:18 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yes, oh my God, and the video games. It was like six months ago that I was like, oh, maverick, he's my youngest. I'm like, oh, maybe we should watch like a Sesame street. He had no clue what that was, no interest, and I was like, too babyish, yeah, never seen Sesame street. You only know about Fortnite and you know he had Minecraft from the time he was born, exactly. 

07:39 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
I mean I will say I'm not sorry that I don't have to watch Caillou anymore or Cocoa Melon, so I'm kind of glad that we're right at those stages. But yes, yes, he's growing up very fast. 

07:52 - Katie Fenske (Host)
He runs the roost the language that comes out of that younger one. I'm like where did you hear that, mike? Okay, you heard that from Ronan. I'm like, don't say that. Oh, oh, my gosh, yes. 

08:05 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
All of that, yeah, all of that. I apologize to all my friends who have like their peer you know his peer is like the oldest and they have no idea. I'm like I'm sorry, my child's the bad influence, I apologize, and he's got two brothers. I'm sorry. 

08:22 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I think that, cause he's in TK right now and I think that about school, I'm like, oh my gosh, I just don't say that at school. Don't, don't say that to your teacher. I'm like, oh, hopefully they'll understand. You have older brothers. Exactly, exactly. 

08:36 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Okay. 

08:37 - Katie Fenske (Host)
As a boy. Mom, have you seen the Minecraft movie yet? 

08:40 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
No, it's on our list. We were sick last week, which is why I'm a little still congested. But no, that is probably on on the ticket for the next week or so. 

08:51 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I never in a million years thought I would go to a movie, a Minecraft movie but I'm like, here I am. 

08:57 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Well, we just went to dog man, so I'm hoping it's better than the dog man movie. 

09:01 - Katie Fenske (Host)
This one was funny. I would find there was like some funny humor in it. Um, that I think adults can can laugh at. All right, but I have the raving review. I have fallen asleep in a movie before that. I've taken them to and they're like mom, why'd you fall asleep? I'm like I don't know, I'm not interested in this movie and it's like two hours I could take a little nap. So at minecraft, they're like don't fall asleep, mom. I'm like it's a lot're like don't fall asleep, mom. I'm like it's a lot of pressure. I didn't fall asleep. So there's my review. Perfect, all right, let's get into how you got my son to shower. You made a successful career in beauty, in the beauty industry, and then decided to start your own brand. Can you tell us about that? 

09:42 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Yeah, so I was. I've been in beauty for about 20 years. Um, I started well, I wasn't always in beauty, I was in finance first and I made a pretty wild transition. Um, and I'm and I've never looked back. It's it's been so fun. 

09:56
So I got my first job at Bumble and Bumble, which is a hair product company and they have a couple of salons in New York city. Um, and I came on in a strategy role, but I also took on a bunch of other responsibilities there and after a few years, seeing how, like the businesses work, I really wanted to do product marketing and be responsible for helping to create new products and get them to market. And so I moved over to Clinique and I ran some of the skincare lines at Clinique for a number of years and that's where I learned about, you know, fragrance, because Clinique is a dermatologist brand and it's also allergy tested fragrance free. So we talked a lot about what's doing right for skin and you know the skin's protective barrier and inflammation all sorts of boring things. But what but the? You know the skin's protective barrier and inflammation all sorts of boring things, but what but the? You know what keeps skin healthy and what protects it from, you know, acne, what protects it from lines and wrinkles, things like that. 

10:54
And something that can bother adult skin is fragrance, because it can be irritating. And that's when I had, I became a mom. So I had my first child when I was working at Clinique and I was looking at the products that I was buying for the baby you know, getting the house all set to bring home my little joy and I noticed that, you know, on in some of the baby products they had fragrance and essential oils which hit me wrong because I had just been, you know, completely told that it's not great for adult skin. This is newborn skin. Why would you intentionally introduce sensitizing ingredients, you know, for kids that have they're literally brand new, right, they can't protect themselves, their skin is gorgeous and why would you introduce something that can be sensitizing to that newborn skin? 

11:55
So that really made me more skeptical about the baby industry and the kids' products, and so for years I'd been looking for fragrance free products for the kids, and especially when they were younger. Um, and just as they got older, you know, just that, five year old, six, seven, eight year old level, they're now in elementary school, they're participating on team sports, they're getting they're active. They're getting messier and dirtier. Our school is stinky. I mean that is crazy. Like they don't have the underarm BO, but it is a whole body BO. 

12:34 - Katie Fenske (Host)
It's like sweaty boy, sweaty boy their room smells. It's crazy. 

12:39 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
It's like the scalp and the feet. Oh, the feet, the feet are so bad. 

12:46 - Katie Fenske (Host)
It is so, so bad. I have my son's cleats in my car when he plays baseball. I left it in my car overnight. I got in the next day and I was like, oh my God, what is this the worst air freshener you can pick? 

13:00 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Um, yeah, so that you know they're getting older. Um, and, as I was talking with other moms about like well, what are you using? Because, like they're not babies anymore, but also we've got black top at our school, they come home with black smudges all over their knees and their on their ankles and they're like, you know, it's like they're wearing eye black. 

13:23
It's crazy, when they get home and their hands, oh goodness, it's like they hadn't washed their hands all day. They probably haven't. They probably haven't. So I was like, okay, well, what am I going to use for the kids now? And talking with other moms, and then through our research, you know the overwhelming majority are buying just general market drugstore brand products. You know dermatologist brands or sensitive skin or gentle, whatever it is, but you know, whatever they're using for the whole family and that's what the kids kind of transition to. 

13:55
Once you're kind of ready to retire, the toddler products or the toddler products end up lingering because people don't really know what to buy. Yeah, and so that's. You know I was at clinic, had my kind of revelation. We moved back to California, so we're in. We've been here for almost 10 years now and over the years this frustration has continued to build and so finally I kind of exploded and decided I have to do this for for myself and for my kids. 

14:26
And that kind of led me on this like journey of actually like going through with this dream that I had been having about clean products made for kids. Um, that looked like they were for kids, like you know, that weren't too babyish, weren't cartoony yes, there you go. Looked like something that they could use when they were young like my, my kids age but also that they didn't have to graduate from or transition out of they could have. You know, they can keep using it, you know, through middle school and high school and it's really a bridge between, like, the toddler products and the acne and adult products that they're going to be using that aren't right for, you know, kids skin right now and you know, in a packaging that makes them want to use it. So that goes back to your, yeah, and that goes back to your. You know your kid showering and that's really exciting to hear Totally. 

15:23 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Why do you think teen boys are like overlooked in this space, like preteen and teen boys, like I've heard, the girl moms are like the girls nowadays have their 10 step skincare routine and support and this. Why aren't boys being represented in this? Like new skincare thing, care thing. 

15:43 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Yeah, I mean it, it just goes. You just follow the, you follow the money, so follow the money, honey. I mean, when you look at the industry, um, women's skincare has always been a much bigger market than men's men's grooming and over the years there's been a few um winners in men grooming and for decades, like the research has said, men are paying more attention and men's grooming is going to take off and it's going to explode, but women's still eclipse men's grooming. And I think one the kids are watching their parents. Kids are watching their parents and so you know, daughter is watching mom have a multi-step routine and using products and it's sensorial and she wants to be older and she wants to kind of follow in mom's footsteps and and now it's not just mom, you're watching influencers and other teens on social media. 

16:39
So when I, when we were growing up, you know, I looked at my mom and I saw some of her products and I would like you know, go into her, yeah, go into her cabinet and try out her products. I didn't have the benefit of watching it on YouTube or social media and seeing all these other women and what they were using. That would have opened my eyes to so many more things. But boys, they see their dads doing their process. A lot of it is related to shaving, probably. But even men have like streamlined products, like if you look at the men's, there's more two and ones and three and ones there than there are in women's. If you you just mentioned like women like their steps, um, and and men like to be done fast there. 

17:29
That doesn't mean that men don't have face wash and you know serums and moisturizers, but that's, you know, kind of a newer phenomenon, um, or a newer trend. But you just go to the body wash aisle at your local supermarket and you will see two in one, three in ones. I just saw a funny TikTok where it was like 28 in one. You don't even have to shower anymore, exactly, and that's because you know guys kind of like to do that multi-stepping get in and get out and I just think that that is a behavior, I think that that is a preference. 

18:07
And I have talked to other girl moms or moms with daughters and while you know their kids are more interested in the facial skincare routines and makeup when they're in the shower they also do like to just kind of get in and get out, so, like the body wash and the shampooing they're not spending, you know, they don't want the multiple products there. I think that's more of functional. But girls are more interested, I think, in the facial skincare and so brands are coming out targeting girls because they're going to buy more products, you know, and they're willing to spend a little bit more on them and they're more interested, spend a little bit more on them and they're more interested in them. So I think you just kind of go where, where the market is, but so then boys are left with like axe and old spice. 

18:54 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Those are the two I thought of. 

18:56 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Dove men. 

19:02 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I let them pick out what they want and I think they gravitate towards. Dad uses that red old spice. That's what we want. 

19:05 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
And I mean, I used to work at banana Republic when I was 16 men or so, like when, oh God, I hated working in the women's section. You'd have a woman, she'd take 20 things into the dressing room and then she'd come out with one thing or she'd be like I'm going to bring my husband back and see what he says, you know, um, whereas, like, the men would go in with three things and then they would buy those three things in three different colors. Yes, I will take that in all the colors you have available. So, men, men have, they're a little bit more streamlined and they are also a little bit more brand loyal. They, they don't, um, they're not looking for the newness and, um, they're not as fickle as as females can be. My husband is still using the same red deodorant that he used when he was a teenager. So, very loyal, very, very loyal, um. So I I just think that you know, with boys, you know, rather than try to sell them on something for them, like I mentioned, a lot of the parents are just buying what they're buying for the whole family, and kid will use that too. But what I found out and I don't know how your kids are. My kids don't want to have multiple steps, they want to be in and out. They like that two in one, three in one concept. 

20:29
But the products that are on the market for men or you know, because all the ones that we mentioned are all men's products they don't contain high quality, premium ingredients. They're pretty inexpensive and you kind of get what you pay for and they're not made for kids' skin. So you've got inexpensive, cheap products. I mean it's kind of like junk food. It's not organic apples, you're not in the organic produce section, you're in the junk food section at the gas station. Basically, okay, so you're getting the you know, most affordable ingredients for a higher margin product because the prices are pretty low for those products. Um, they are. That does that means that they're not that like safe and um, some gentle right For kids vulnerable skin, thinner skin and they're not designed for kids to be using. So you do have to have a vacuum of options for boys who don't, who've outgrown monsters and, you know, don't want pink or something like super clinical. 

21:45 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah. What are some of the ingredients in some of those that are not good for kids' skin or any skin? 

21:53 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Well, there's classes of ingredients. I mean some of the basic ones. You know you've got different surfactant options. So surfactants are the detergents, they're the cleansers in, like a body wash or a shampoo or a hand wash or your detergent. And I think people know sulfates and so you'll look at, look at you know your packaging and it'll say sulfate free and you're like great, sulfate free. 

22:22 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I've heard, those are bad right. 

22:24 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
So check right. But when you turn over the bottle they can have other synthetic detergents or other detergents that are irritating, just as irritating as sulfates or worse. But they're not sulfates, so it's great, right. So the marketing on the front says it's sulfate free, because people have heard about sulfates and so they look for that and they're like, okay, great done. But when you turn it over you're looking at, like sodium olefin sulfonate, Cocomidopropyl betaine is a favorite among chemists and it's in, and actually those two together are in so many body washes and shampoos on the market. 

23:10
But cocomidopropyl betaine and betaines can be really irritating and so you've got like two ingredients that can be irritating to skin in concert with each other. There can just be many. So one is like what is your surfactant? Some are harsher than others. There are, you know, some very gentle surfactants. Some of the more gentle ones don't foam up very well and so, like cocoa myopropyl betaine foams up beautifully and people love their foam, right? 

23:43
So, um, you know, chemists love to use ingredients that work and I'll tell you, synthetic ingredients work really really well. They are, they are there for performance and they're inexpensive, so you can get a really really good cleaning body wash or shampoo for not a lot of money, but the trade-offs are. You know, it can be harsh to your skin and, like I mentioned about your skin's protective barrier, you only have one and it does a really important job, especially when you've got, like the younger, thinner skin. Um, if that protective barrier gets compromised, it can really create a create a whole bunch of skin issues that you didn't have and didn't need to have, Um, and one of those things is acne. 

24:30
So that's why you're hearing a lot about um dermatologists speaking out about all the kids using anti-aging products and their mom's products and running to Sephora and running to Ulta, Because these girls do want to be a little older and more mature which is how girls are and use products that are kind of above their age level, you know, products that are kind of like above their age level and it is hurting their, their barrier, their skin's barrier, and that they're seeing dermatologists because they're having some skin issues and even creating acne. You can actually create the onset of acne. 

25:05 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Wow, I did not realize that. Yeah, wow, how do you get cause yours is scented? My son was like, oh, I like the smell. How do you get it scented without using all those harsh fragrances? Yes, thank, you. 

25:17 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
So that's another one is fragrance. So fragrance is a black box. You have no idea what ingredients are there because it's a trade secret and the suppliers don't have to disclose that, don't have to put that on the label. No Fragrance, that's it. It's considered a trade secret. No fragrance, that's it. It's considered a trade secret. And what's crazy is that until I was going down my path of grime and I'm talking to fragrance houses and different suppliers and they don't even know which ingredients are in there, wow, and you're just relying on what the supplier is telling you. And I had a supplier, a very reputable fragrance house, talking to me about clean, synthetic fragrance, something that would be acceptable at Sephora, and I'm like, oh okay, that sounds great because natural fragrance has essential oils in it and essential oils are naturally sensitizing. So, just because they're natural, sensitive to cause. 

26:28 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I you know. I tried to get into the essential oils and someone's like oh, put this on here. Broke out in such a rash and I didn't know it was from that. So I kept putting more on, thinking, oh, like this is supposed to be calming. I could not believe how irritated my skin got from essential oils which you thought oh, these are natural, these are supposed to be good for you. 

26:47 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Exactly so. You know, especially brands are like, oh, we have fragrance, but it's natural fragrance, and you're like, oh, okay, that's natural, that sounds good, but natural fragrance contains sensitizing ingredients and I have looked at it Like I could not use any of them because they, they all. 

27:02
I don't want to use anything that's allergenic, um, because we're we're, you know, talking about kids' skin, Um. And so that was just a choice that I made for grime, and so I couldn't use any of the natural fragrances that they were sending me. And so they suggested well, what about this clean, synthetic fragrance? I'm like, okay, I'm open to that. Send me a list. And I looked at the ingredient list. I'm like I can't use any of this either, because the ingredients can contain endocrine disruptors. You know ingredients that are suspected to be carcinogenic. Like you've got, you don't even know what's in there. So I ended up not being able to use either either option natural fragrance or or synthetic. So I I ended up, um, I thought I was gonna have to go fragrance free, which was kind of where I was leaning anyway. But I will tell you, people like fragrance, which is why it's in baby products, even boys even boys even boys the smell of it, mom, that's what he said totally, totally. 

27:56
So I, you know, sampled out my fragrance, free option, and I got a lot of feedback about and I a lot of the feedback was it was great, I just wish it had a scent and I was like, oh, so I, I figured out a way where I felt like I could do this. So, first of all, I'm I'm not marketing this to babies. You know this is my lab says that it's for two and up, but I think four and up is good. I don't need to compete with the toddler. No, I mean, it's such a competitive, saturated baby market. Once your child is kind of like done with their baby and toddler products, they can then graduate to grime. 

28:34
But we use aromatic extracts and so they are not essential oils and I'm just using basically food grade extracts that have a natural scent to them. But I didn't choose any that were on allergenic, you know. So like there isn't, you know, an orange extract or mint or anything like that. They're very mild. So it's vanilla, there's some coconut, some raspberry, so it's very mild, it's a very mild scent. It doesn't have that punch of a fragrance, of that, that punch of a fragrance. But I felt really good about what we were doing, because, one, I'm transparent about what I'm using. I'm not mask, you know, hiding it behind the word fragrance, and it's so light and it's so gentle. 

29:29 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yeah, yeah. How long, from like starting this idea to I've got my product, I'm ready, so how long did that take you? 

29:37 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Well, it's been marinating for years, but once my husband told me I needed a business plan, um, it's probably been about two years since I finished my business plan, but I had very fast for all this work that you've done to like. 

29:54
Oh God, it feels like it's inched along. I had some hiccups along the way. I mean, I have definitely, even though, like this is what I do is bring products to market, boy, doing it on your own, without partners and without budgets. I had a lot of like learning lessons and hiccups and setbacks. So one day I'll write a book. It's no joke, it's no joke. 

30:22 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Right, right, cause you're just like doing it on your own, that's. And then like are you your own social media and you're like gosh unfortunately, and yes, yes, oh, I feel ya, it's a lot, it's a lot, it's a lot. Okay, your chapstick, because I also got your chapstick, because my son, all of well, two of them are like chronic lip lickers oh uh-huh, always have chap lips. 

30:46
My oldest son is like constantly like mom, where's my chapstick? Like he has to have it with him, um, and I saw you talk about it on your Instagram. So social media is working and I'm like, oh my gosh, we have to try this, cause it's they're always like red up here. Yes, since using it, like I personally use it now, cause I was always getting chap lips and I felt like it helps so much. So how? 

31:09
is your chapstick, different than the stuff we get at the grocery store, like the Carmax that I've been using with him okay. 

31:15 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
So, first of all, my husband went out and bought chapstick. Okay, we just went to the snow and I I read, I was seriously like, did you just buy that? Do you know what I do for a living? It's like, are you paying attention? And, by way, we have like a hundred chapsticks or, like you know, lip balm yeah. 

31:38
Yeah, so, um, listen it. Petroleum, jelly, aquaphor, chapstick these are household names. These are things that are kind of like tried and true, but here's what's? Here's what's the problem with them. A couple things. One is that they really are occlusive. They are sitting on top of your skin and they are creating this protective barrier to keep moisture from escaping, but they're not adding any moisture to your lips. So if and they make it kind of soft and soothing, like Like it kind of feels good, but it's actually not healing the dry skin underneath. So when it wears off, your skin is still dry, and then you're like, ooh, I want that again. So you kind of like it's this cycle of keep applying it, but it's not actually healing your skin, so it's a distraction, basically. So it's not penetrating into your skin. So it's it's. It's a distraction, basically. So it's not penetrating into your skin and there's no like nothing's moisturizing. So it's got like petroleum or petrolatum lanolin Lanolin can be irritating. It's one of the you know, potential allergenic ingredients. That's funny. 

32:53 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I thought of that ingredient and it brought me back to breastfeeding, because that's what I had the lanolin from breastfeeding, exactly. 

33:01 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Um, true, so you know it. It has, uh, and, and a lot of those have flavors or dyes or, um, or fragrances which can also be irritating to skin. So what we use instead, I mean, and it's so easy to do is our butters. We use shea butter and cocoa butter, so those are really moisturizing, um, and nurturing. We have some oils, some plant oils, in there, which are, um, again, very moisturizing and soothing. It's got aloe vera, um, which is very soothing. It's got vitamin E, which is an antioxidant, um, and then this the thing to seal it right, to protect, to keep moisture from escaping. We use beeswax, and so everything that we're using is natural, um, and it's it helps actually like, heal the skin and protect it from, like, wind or the elements. 

33:59 - Katie Fenske (Host)
That's what I noticed is my son like he would constantly need chapstick with him and he would always be putting it on. And when he started using this like it's sitting in the cupboard right now and I'm like he hasn't used it in a couple of days I feel like he actually like moisturizes, like it actually worked and it's not peppermint, because then I try and put it on my other son who's like all red, not the peppermint one. 

34:20 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
It burns, it hurts and I'm like I gotta put something on it well also, I mean, if they're licking their lips, if that becomes a habit, it's like also what are you ingesting then? Like it's kind of gross to think about what you would be ingesting, like eating a chapstick, whereas if you end up kind of gross to think about what you would be ingesting, like eating a chapstick, whereas if you end up kind of like ingesting some of ours, it's all natural, I mean you wouldn't want to go and make a meal of it, but I can't imagine it would hurt you right? 

34:51
So I just feel better about them using. The thing is we have choices. We don't have to use stuff that has petroleum and and paraffin and inexpensive distractions like we. 

35:04 - Katie Fenske (Host)
We can use stuff that's good for your skin and right, and this is very boy friendly, like how cool is that? Oh yeah, it's not like there's no, shine because I got the cherry once and I was like mom, that's true, it's got my, my lips all red. I'm like, well, yeah, it's very cool looking. Thank you, keep it in their pocket Did you do that, were you very involved in the design of like your logo and yes, um, I've, I am the creative director, All of it, you're all of it. 

35:36 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
So, um, the logo is actually, um, designed by a pretty. If you go to Santa Cruz, this guy's kind of a big deal. Um, he's a skateboard graphic designer. Um, his kind of a big deal, he's a skateboard graphic designer. 

35:49 - Katie Fenske (Host)
His dad is a big deal yeah. 

35:51 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Yes, so, and my husband's from Santa Cruz and we go there every year and visit my in-laws, so it just felt very kind of natural and in line with my brand. And I'm also I also grew up in the eighties and nineties and you know, love, love, the eighties colors, 90s, grunge, and it just it appeals to me. So, even though, like, I'm making this kind of like for guys or it's at least designed with my boys in mind, um, it's something that I, it appeals to, to my aesthetic too. So, um, and I think it appeals to other other girls as well, um, but yeah, so the logo was designed by this very cool guy, um, and then everything else. You know I've done all the other packaging stuff, so cause. 

36:34 - Katie Fenske (Host)
You also have sunscreen. Right, you have sunscreen. 

36:37 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Um so I have not developed my own sunscreen. I'm I'm um supporting a LA based brand um Zinka. I grew up with. Zinka, I remember that right here, yep, yes, yes, the nose coat, yeah, and that was the cool stuff. 

36:56 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Like I remember the bright colors. It was cool yeah. 

37:01 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Oh, it was so cool. I would bring a couple of colors and somebody else would bring a couple of colors, and you trade colors, oh yeah, but they now they have this mineral sunscreen, um, and they have a stick and a lotion version and I use mineral sunscreen on my kids and I mean, even though it's that colorful nose coat that you remember from the 80s, it is one of the simplest um and cleanest uh mineral sunscreens on the market. Frankly, it has so few ingredients and they're all natural. There's so much extra junk that gets put into sunscreen to make it aesthetically pleasing, not just efficacious. So you're looking for sunscreen that works right. You don't want to get the rays right, so you don't want the aging rays and the burning rays, so you need something that's going to be able to, like, protect you when you're out in the sun, but sunscreen can be unpleasant to apply and so a lot, a lot of that, yes, right. 

38:03
So a lot of brands put a ton of other inactive ingredients in there, like fragrance, or silicones to make it smell better and make it kind of like go on smoother and easier, or silica, it's like a powder, so that it kind of dries more matte, and there's a lot of ingredients in there that are it's noise. 

38:28 - Katie Fenske (Host)
It's really just for aesthetic purposes, um does it harm the the effectiveness of the? 

38:34 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
it doesn't harm the effectiveness of it, but it's not necessarily great for skin, especially young skin. So, like silicones for instance, they're occlusive, um, and they can cause, you know, clogged pores in a child who's going through hormonal changes and doesn't want to get acne Not great, probably, like you can. Sunscreen itself is kind of thick and goopy um, to add other ingredients in there that can be comedogenic, you know it's. It's not awesome unless they're a terrific face washer, which most kids aren't, um, and you know there are other just reasons not to use, like fragrance and and you know just, there's just a lot of junk and noise, whereas, like Zinka doesn't have that. So I I feel good using it on my kids and people ask me all the time like what sunscreen they should use, and so I just make it easier for people to grab one when you come to our website. 

39:31 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Oh, I love that. Do you have any other products that you are working on to add? Oh gosh. 

39:35 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
We have a whole, I have a pipeline man, but I am very excited. We were just talking about tariffs. I know I am really crossing my fingers to see, like, what the impact of the tariffs will be on on my business. Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm looking to um to launch a shampoo conditioner combo. Um, you know, within a couple months. So I'm very excited. I've been working on that for a long time. 

40:06 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Love that. That is the next thing I want to add to our shower, cause my son came out of the shower and he was like oh, I liked it, mom, and I'm like did you wash your hair when you were in there? Cause it's like damp but it doesn't look like he's like scrubbed it and you know, like boy's hair just smells like like boy. Yeah, you're like you just smell like boy and he's like but I didn't sweat today. I'm like I know, but you, you probably did, but you just smell like boy. I'm like I don't feel like you wash that smell out. Yes, we can get a shampoo and conditioner in one. Oh my gosh. 

40:38 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Well. So that was kind of my you know also frustration about, like the men's grooming market, because everything is simplified, it's like two and one, three and one, 10 and one. But, um, but they weren't the right combinations. So that's why, for grime, um, we've got the body wash right. That way you can get rid of your kids toddler body washes or whatever, and then, while their hands are sudsy, just try to make it up to your face. Right, it's the same product. Just get it head to toe right, touch all your parts and make it easy. 

41:10
And then, when it comes to, like the shampoo, you have a separate product for that, but it's a shampoo conditioner in one, because a lot of the products on the market are combined the body and the hair, and body washes and shampoos. Both they're similar. They're not entirely the same in terms of formulation, but the one thing it's missing is a conditioning element, and hair does need to be conditioned. Once you kind of like open the cuticle and you're cleansing, you do need to close that cuticle back up and put some protection on it and, um, you know, add back some healthy oils and stuff. So, um it, what? Those? Those multipurpose products on the market, you know, making it easy for men are also not doing what's right for men. 

42:00 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Got it, got it. Cannot wait till that comes out. Um, what would you say to another mom who has a business idea and wants to get started? Don't know, it's a lot. 

42:14 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
It's another child. So you know I've talked about this before. There are two types of entrepreneurs out there, and maybe there are more, but in my opinion there's two. There's the one that like has that drive and has always wanted to be doing it. Maybe they even started when they were a kid and like had a paper route. I mean, we don't know if there's no paper routes anywhere. 

42:34
But, um, you know, if there's something that you know they've always wanted to work for themselves, or something about them that doesn't want to work for someone else, um, they have ideas, they, they thrive on creating something. I know a mom who is like that and she has started a couple businesses and right now she has a skincare business and it's doing great. I think it's seven figures or like low seven figures, but she's like I'm going to start a pet line, pet toys, oh, okay. So you know, know, now that the skincare line's doing well, she hired someone to kind of like run that day to day and now she's starting and did she started a clean, you know, sustainable pet toy line. So there's that woman or that person and then there's the entrepreneur that just had to do it. That's solving a problem, right. So there was a problem. Nobody else is solving it. There's no other options on the market, identifies a need, decides to fill that gap, right. And so that's me. 

43:41
I am the reluctant entrepreneur more, and the reason that I finally did it is I just got so frustrated and so angry at the options on the market for kids and, as a marketer, what the brands are doing to mislead parents and put like sulfate-free, paraben-free, dermatologist tested on a bottle for kids. That all got me. I would have been like oh, it gets me too, it gets me too. Until you turn the bottle around, because even someone who works in the industry for so long not really sure how to read the labels and kind of call them out on their BS. And then you see like okay, it doesn't contain paraben, it contains preservatives that are worse. You know it says it's natural fragrance but like, what are the ingredients in this natural fragrance? Are there endocrine disruptors in it? Are there carcinogenics? Are there allergens? You know what's in this natural fragrance that you're, you know, letting me put on my child and I just got kind of like fed up with the marketing and talking to other moms and how they're just constantly duped. That out of anger I was like someone has to be able to do better. 

44:57
And then I was also fighting with my kids. All the time I was. I think we joked about this. It took me like two hours to get them to shower. Yeah, you know, by the time they got in the water I was ready for a drink. I was so exhausted it was like the worst time of night. It's. It's hurting my relationship with them. 

45:15
I don't look forward to the evening's time with them because I'm just constantly trying to corral three kids into a shower and they're yelling back at me and avoiding me. I don't have to shower, I don't need to. I'm like, yes, you do Right, and they don't want to. The only reason they're doing this? Because they're being made to. 

45:35
It's not something that they want to do, and so you're forcing them to do something that they don't want to do and it was so painful, and so I was like, okay, great, I'm going to do something clean, do something easy, and I'm going to make it look like something that they like and that way, they can have some independence and some ownership and feel like this is mine, this is not yours, and I'm going to do my, do it myself, and I'm going to do it my way. And, mom, you can take a break. And so, um, I think it's working for you, it's, it's working in our house. So now you know it's, there's a few reminders go take your shower. And then they you know they're off to the races, they know what they're expected to do, they've got the products. They're their products are not mine Right Um and then, I told my older son too. 

46:16 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I was like you watch this one, like make sure, Cause the other boys were using their like bubble bath stuff. I'm like that's yours, Don't let them use that. So I think that was it too, Like he owned stuff, not what a robot. 

46:29 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
They want their independence, they want you know, it's that, oh gosh, it's, it's that push away and then snuggle at night. So then you know the my kids like, they yell at, scream at me for three hours straight and then at nighttime, where I'm literally so ready to say good night and go like yeah. And then it's like can you cuddle with me for a few seconds? 

46:48 - Katie Fenske (Host)
I'm just like what you didn't want me all day long. What now? You have been terrible. 

46:54 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
And now I have to hug you. So I wanted something that would also just make my relationship with them less contentious. And so those are the reasons, and they were important enough to me to put my money and my time behind it. And it's a slow build. I mean it is hobby money at the moment. Right, it's not replacing a salary, it's a lot of work, I mean it's it's as much as a full-time job. But you know, right now it's it's still in build mode. So it is a long-term. It's a long-term goal. Love it Well. I'm so proud of you for doing that, that is. 

47:38 - Katie Fenske (Host)
It's so impressive as someone who, like I, left my teaching job to start doing this, this. It's scary, and it's at times where it's like every other day I'm like I should just quit and go back to that where it was like dependable and but I didn't enjoy it. Right, I enjoy doing this. I enjoy that I'm helping people, so I'm very proud of you for doing that. 

47:58 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Thank you. I mean every moment that goes into, like creating the products or researching the ingredients or designing the path, the labels or whatever. I mean it is such joy. I get so much joy out of working on this. Um, so I'm I'm really doing it for myself, but I love that my kids can do it with me too. 

48:18 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Yes, and they're looking at like wow, look what mom started. Yes, she's creating. 

48:24 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
I mean, I've been working for years and they're like you know, dad makes more than you. I'm like oh, be quiet. Yes, that wasn't always the case Um, but you know, or and just wait, kids just wait. 

48:38
This is going viral but I think it's hard, you know, for and I do want them to see mom, as mom, you know, taking care of them, loving them, all that stuff. But I'm also not their servant and I did have a life before them and I do have something to offer and I think that there is something. This is what made me kind of jump from finance to beauty, and I think it's the same is happening for the kids. It's something tangible. They can see what we all, the work that we created, when we launch a product and you can hold it in your hand and it's really cool to see them have pride for me. 

49:18 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Oh, love that. They're going to grow up and they're going to say my mom was number one, always there for me and then created this great business and it's so awesome. I love that. Okay, so if we want to find your products I know we have a discount code for all the listeners Can you share where we can find Grime? 

49:37 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Yes, of course We've got a website grimeco G-R-Y-M-E dot C-O. We're also available on Amazon and we're looking at expanding other places, but for now those are your two easiest bets. 

49:53 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Love it. That's so accessible. That's I got mine off of your website and it was very quick shipping. I love it. Thank you, thank you. 

49:59 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Our shipping manager is wonderful. 

50:01 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Oh, I love that. The code is burnt pancakes 20,. If you want 20% off, and if you're listening to this, the day it comes out, we're going to have a special giveaway on Instagram. So check out my Instagram because some lucky listener is going to get some free stuff. 

50:18 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Yes, and please check out my Instagram, because I have no friends and I really would like more. 

50:23 - Katie Fenske (Host)
And you're the social media manager. My social media manager is terrible. 

50:27 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Okay, what's your handle? 

50:28 - Katie Fenske (Host)
What's your handle, Grimeco? Okay, we will look you up. I will tag you in all of my stuff so we'll get everyone everyone finding it Well. Thank you so much. This was so enjoyable chatting with you. 

50:39 - Sabrina Yavil (Guest)
Oh, so fun to talk to you too. I could do this all day. 

50:43 - Katie Fenske (Host)
Special thanks to Sabrina for coming in and chatting and getting my son to shower again. If you want to check out her products, make sure to look at the link below. You can get 20% off all of her grind products using the code BURNTPANCAKES20. We've been using it for a while and I can tell you it is 11-year-old boy approved All right until next week. I want to remind you that everyone burns their first pancake, so just keep flipping.