107. Beyond the Golden Hour: Building Lasting Bonds with Your Baby With Dr. Joanna Parga-Belinki

In today’s episode of Burnt Pancakes: Momversations, we’re throwing out the overwhelm and getting back to the heart of what your newborn actually needs: you. Host Katie sits down with neonatologist, lactation consultant, and author Dr. Joanna Parga-Belinkie to talk about The Baby Bonding Book—a science-backed, judgment-free guide to connecting with your baby in the most important ways.

We cover:

Why emotional bonding is more powerful than any baby gadget

How delivery choices and early routines affect attachment

What to do if you don’t feel that instant connection

Everyday moments that help build long-term emotional security

How to quiet the noise and tune into your instincts

The #1 thing new parents actually need to focus on

Dr. Parga-Belinkie’s advice is warm, real, and backed by science—perfect for moms who are tired of being told they’re doing it wrong. Whether you’re in the thick of newborn life or just prepping for it, this episode is a breath of fresh air.

Resources & Mentions:
📘 The Baby Bonding Book – https://amzn.to/44KDUcX
🎧 Dr. Joanna Parga-Belinkie is also co-host of Pediatrics on Call podcast
📱 Website: https://www.jpbelinkiemd.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jopargalinkiemd/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanna-parga-57133923/

📺 Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOpw5ui4uxJHx0tLFVtpnfSkpObfc4d-K

You can find Katie at:
website: burntpancakes.com
YouTube: @burnt.pancakes
Instagram: @burntpancakeswithkatie
Email: katie@burntpancakes.com

🚽 Did you know Katie is also a Certified Potty Trainer? 🚽

☎️ Schedule a 1:1 chat today: Schedule Here
💻 Digital Potty Training Course HERE
📖 Potty Training E-Book HERE
🆓 FREE potty training resources HERE
Instagram: @itspottytime
Tiktok: @itspottytime_

Transcript

00:09 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Hello, hello and welcome back to the Burnt Pancakes podcast, the podcast where we get real about the messiness of motherhood. I'm your host, katie Fenske, and I remind moms that everyone burns their first pancake. Now, today we're going to cut through the chaos of baby registries and sleep schedules and mom guilt to talk about something that is very important in those early newborn days, and that is baby bonding. I'm excited to be joined by Dr Joanna Parga-Belinki, a neonatologist, board certified lactation consultant and author of the Baby Bonding Book. She's here to help us stop stressing about doing everything right and start focusing on what's really important, and that's just the connection and presence with your baby. So let's dive into baby bonding. Hello, dr Joanna Parga-Belinki, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me, katie. Well, why don't we start just introduce? 

01:10 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
yourself by telling us where you're from and how old your kids are. So I am from Philadelphia. Well, I'm not really from Philadelphia. I grew up in New York. I actually did live in LA for a little bit of time. So I was in California for some of my training, but I wound up in Philadelphia for my first job as a neonatologist or baby doctor, and I am a mom of three kids ages seven, five and one. 

01:33 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Okay. So being a neonatologist, did that prepare you for having kids? Or when you became a mom, was it like learning it all over again? 

01:43 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
So yes and no, like learning it all over again. So yes and no. I think I had a lot of medical knowledge about infancy and newborns and that does not directly translate into parenting your own children or building a relationship with them. So it wasn't. And I remember, particularly because you hear about sleep deprivation before you're a new parent and you're like, okay, and I was like I'm gonna be so ready for sleep deprivation because I've done 24 hour shifts, I've stayed up for days, this is gonna be easy, and it is not when it is like cumulative sleep deprivation of having a new person live with you and having to take care of them. 

02:28
So, I think it helped inform a lot of things. And when to worry. I tend to be one of those doctor moms who is on the side of less worry. I think we fall on a spectrum, but I'm always like kids it's fine, you're totally fine, you don't have to go to the emergency room for that. But you know, actually experiencing it is different and I feel like I'm a lifelong learner, so I'm always learning these things in my job and in my parenting probably helps you now relate more to your, your patients. 

03:00 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Like, yeah, I know what it's like to be that tired. Now I get it. Yeah, one of my favorite sleep consultants. She started off as an um, maybe a NICU nurse, labor and delivery nurse, and she was like I thought like okay, I've been delivering babies for years. Once I became a mom, totally fine, she was like no, that's where I learned the real stuff is when it's your own kid, cause when it's your own kid, their cry just gets to you. When it's someone else's baby, he's crying, whatever, but it's your own kid, you're like it's visceral. 

03:33 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
You get like a visceral reaction to it, you really feel your own kids cry. 

03:42 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
I totally agree with that. I was just at the pediatrician the other day with my oldest son and there was a new mom there with her little baby and I could just see her like stressing about, like oh, you're okay, you're okay, and I'm like that cry does not get to me. 

03:51 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
It's like I am not stressed about the cry, but I could see her just like well, it is interesting having a job as a neonatologist where I really want to hear that baby's cry, especially when they're first born, want to hear that babies cry, especially when they're first born, so I'm trying to make them cry a lot of times. But I think parents actually also really like that first cry. 

04:11 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
It's the subsequent cries that really get to them, the ones in the middle of the night or in public when you're Okay. So let's get into baby bonding a little bit, cause I think this is um bonding a little bit, because I think this is a topic that I really want to delve into, because my oldest was a C-section and I don't really feel like I had the bonding experience. Maybe it's because I was a first time mom, maybe it's because of his birth, but I want to know more about that. So why is bonding with newborns so important for them? 

04:44 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
So it is really in the first year of life that the brain grows. An incredible amount, like a phenomenal amount, of connections are made in that first year, and you kind of see it if you. If you think about the different milestones that pediatricians look at as they're watching babies grow, you can think of those milestones as for brain development as well. So it's an incredible time and the foundation of really solid brain growth is safe, stable and nurturing relationships, and so that bonding with your baby, that making a connection with them, is so paramount to how their brain is going to shape as they grow. 

05:21 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Interesting, so it doesn't have to just be. I missed it in that more. What do they call it? The golden hour? I didn't miss it. It could take place over. 

05:31 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Yeah, and I'm so glad you brought that up, because as a part of of my job too, I met a lot of deliveries where the unexpected has happened and this wasn't what the the parents were hoping for and it wasn't the type of delivery that they maybe wanted. And you mentioned you had a c-section and and um, and I just want to say any, any mode of delivery is a good one um, yeah, I am so thankful that he was born that way, like I. 

05:57 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
I tell my husband all the time like he was breached and if we lived out on the prairie I would not have survived that birth. So the fact that I could have a C-section was was great. Not not what I had planned, but yeah. 

06:10 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Yeah, and I think there is a lot that goes into that moment of birth, right, People have a lot of feelings about it, a lot of emotions, and a lot of times they're making a birth plan. They want it to go a certain way and I actually think that's great. I think it's great to think about delivery, to think about what you might want out of it, to know kind of what is going to be happening at the hospital. That's all wonderful. I also think it's important to realize that birth is one of these times. While it is this incredible moment, it is a moment right. 

06:39
And a lot of times it doesn't go as you expected it might go. We were just talking about that, and it's a moment, right, and after that moment, no matter how that moment goes, there is most likely going to be this new human being that you're going to have this responsibility for. Right, and that's what I feel like parents need to kind of shift. Focus on a little bit is okay. Now that I have this new relationship, how do I want that to look and remember that relationships are not. They're built on many, many moments over time, right? So even if that initial moment didn't go the way you wanted, if you think about most relationships in your life, like love at first sight is sort of a movie thing, right? 

07:21
It takes time to build loving, strong relationships in your life, and that is the same for with your baby. 

07:28 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
That is so good to know, cause I did feel a ton of mom guilt with my oldest, feeling like, cause we didn't even do skin to skin, like I had the C-section, I didn't know what to say. Like I didn't know I could say, hey, I can, I hold him. So it wasn't until, like I don't know an hour after, when I'm back in my room, that the nurse was like oh, were you planning on breastfeeding? Maybe we should try that. And I was like, oh, okay, are we supposed to do that right now? I had no idea. My other two was just like right on me, um, but then I felt really guilty because I did not instantly feel that like loving mother bond. It was like who is this alien child that I now have to take care of, now that I'm tired and I'm exhausted? And I I felt guilty that I hadn't instantly bonded with him. So you're saying that you didn't miss a window if you didn't? 

08:16 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
get it. You're not alone, you know you're not alone in not feeling that instant magical love connection. People that do that is wonderful, People that do that is wonderful. 

08:26 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
I envy that. That is great. 

08:29 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
But again, this is real life. It's such an emotional time and most birthing parents are at risk for postpartum anxiety and depression after they deliver, and so the feelings are not all good. There's also many moms about. They say they quote up to 80% in studies have postpartum blues. So even if they don't have full fledged anxiety or depression, they are feeling sad. I remember after delivering every single one of my babies, anything would make me cry, anything, and I'm laughing now, but I was crying then, right after the delivery. 

09:05 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
And you right after the delivery and you can't explain it. 

09:07 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
You can't stop it, yes you can't and and you know we mentioned this golden hour because you keep talking about how I missed that that time and the golden hour is great, particularly if you want to breastfeed. That's where the best data is for the golden hour, that it really helps with stimulating milk supply and getting that established and how much it really influences bonding. We're not sure it's really tough to do those studies to really see how it influences like again, a relationship that's going to be built over hopefully many, many years of your life right, and so missing out on that golden hour and having the delivery you didn't want doesn't mean you can't bond with your baby. 

09:43
It might delay, you know, your initial interactions, kind of like you're describing, Katie, where it took another hour for you to really hold baby and have them in your arms and and and so it might delay those initial interactions, but it won't stop you from having a strong relationship with your baby if you work at it, yeah, so what can some parents do in the first year to bond with their kids? 

10:07
I think the first thing is just make sure that they know they have permission to do this right. We have busy modern lives, and so getting to know your baby is going to be, again, really important, the most important thing you could do for them developmentally. And what does that mean for them developmentally? And what does that mean? It means a lot of active listening, right? Because the baby doesn't talk in the same way that we do, so in the ways that they're going to communicate with you are different than how you and I are talking on a podcast. 

10:35
So, so active listening is a skill and there are different things you can watch out for and baby, to start interacting with them. The first is when they cry, because we were just talking about cry, and cry isn't always you're a terrible parent, you've done something wrong. Cry is more. I don't have another way to communicate with you. I need something. I need something, yeah, and there are these really cool studies out of UCLA actually, where there was a scientist, a PhD, who made an app where you could kind of put your baby's cry in and, by the pitch and the tone of their cry, kind of have a sense of and they had three big categories of, you know, pain, which I think a lot of parents recognize a pain cry, hunger, and then sort of like a general discomfort. Like a general discomfort, but but so that so and so if you're listening and paying attention to cries, you can often start to understand what it is that your baby's crying about which is helpful when you're trying to react to them. 

11:33
But again, you know, cry means hey, probably something's going on. I always say have a checklist ready of okay, did I feed them? When did I last do that? Have I changed their diaper? What's the light in this room? How loud is it in this room? You know different things in the environment that you can change too, and then and then know that you might not figure it out. But it's the act of trying and and listening and trying to connect with baby that they appreciate. And one of my favorite things to do to bond with a baby is something called serve and return. So it's like a tennis match almost between you and baby, where maybe the baby coos. 

12:10
Right, you've probably seen these videos online of babies vocalized, starting to vocalize, and I remember I had this family come into the ED when their baby was like about a few weeks old I can't remember exactly how many weeks and I was a pediatric resident at the time because I'm trained in pediatrics as well and they were like my baby's making the sound. I'm really worried about this sound and I'm like, okay, and the baby's quiet. 

12:33 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Let's get it to make it. 

12:34 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Yeah, so I'm like all right. So I sit with the family and I'm waiting for the sound, and the sound is just like a you know, like the baby talk, starting to vocalize for for what was the first time, I think, for this family, and they were like there it is. And I was like that is great that you are picking up on this. And then you know, and then if you return that, right, so the baby goes and then you talk to them and you're cooing with them back and forth. That's actually the beginning of language development, right there, and and that, and then they and you'll start to notice some people will actually repeat the coos back and forth and you're and, and, and that might. 

13:12
It seems silly, right, I think play is also really important with the baby, you're kind of playing with them, but you're also building their brain which is really cool and and you're teaching them like, hey, there's someone in my life who cares enough to listen to me, and so I'm going to try to talk to them because they care enough to listen to me. And again, it's that loving, attentive caregiver not the caregiver that gets everything right. 

13:35 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Relationships are messy. We're trying our best. 

13:38 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
But the one who's paying attention, who's trying to understand. That is what's most important for a baby. 

13:44 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Okay, are there studies done on like firstborn babies versus third? I'm looking at with my first. I was in his face all the time Like you're awake, okay, I'm playing with you. I'm talking to you. I'm doing this with my third. I was like you're awake, okay, you're good, you're going to watch the brothers play over there. I'm going to get the dishes done. I wouldn't say I'm less bonded to him but, um, he got less of my attention in his first year than the other two um, that you're asking an absolutely wonderful question. 

14:17 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
There's certainly literature on birth order and how birth order might influence our parenting style and also a child's development. There's not a definitive sort of study I know on this, but I think anecdotally there's a lot of parents who report the same thing as you, which is just you know that first baby gets that really focused attention and tends to maybe be the more responsible kind of dialed in. You know my first is is at her heart introvert and so, but she is always watching what's going on and and taking it in and has a better grasp on things than my. Third is too young to make a call on their personality. 

15:05
But, I think birth order probably has a lot of impact on personality. But again, all babies are born with a temperament right and if you pay attention you'll kind of get a sense of your baby's temperament from early on. You'll kind of get a sense of your baby's temperament from early on. Like I knew, my first daughter was really introverted just because of how she acted as a baby, because she was very animated with my partner and I but was not animated with anyone else. So people falsely think she was a late talker because she was so quiet. 

15:36
But I was like no, no, she would talk because, she was so quiet, um, but I was like, no, no, she would talk, just not when anyone else, anyone else, no interest in showing off for anyone, or or. 

15:43 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
whereas my middle is very extroverted and he was unfortunately a covid baby, so he was very would have loved people and my, my third, seems to be a little bit of a mix, but is very fiery and has no problem telling you her opinion that sounds like my third, like the spicy one of all of them, which is funny because when he was a baby, I think, because there was just always something going on it was COVID, so the oldest was home, the middle, like they weren't going to school, and he just had constant entertainment. But now I'm like, wow, he is, he's spicy Got a temper on him. 

16:22
And yeah, he's interesting. 

16:25 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
So, yeah, I wish I could quote for you better scientific research on that, but I think there is a lot of fun things you could read about birth order. That would be interesting, yeah. 

16:36 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
What about? So just baby play in general, because I I found it when I was like a new mom, like trying to come up, like what do I do with this baby? Like there's all those like black and white toys and all this stuff. But sometimes you just feel like am I doing this right or am I just like? 

16:53 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
well, you're bringing up a good point, right, katie is is that what is stimulating for a baby who's experiencing the world for the first time? Learning how to see, figuring out where you know they're doing so much is not stimulating for us. It's so boring not at all. 

17:10 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Like just looking at the tree was their favorite. I would just lay them on a blanket and they just like stare up at the trees. I'm like this is great, like maybe I can read my book while they do this. 

17:20 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
I once had someone say to me that the parent is the baby's favorite toy. 

17:27
And they kind of said it to me as like you're your baby's favorite toy, and I was like I'm not a toy, I don't know, I didn't know how to take it at first, but I think the meaning there. I like the sentiment of that that you're your baby's favorite toy because really, as as human beings, babies are really learning by those again, relationships around them and how their caregivers are responding to them and and so, and they model after their caregivers. So they're, they're like they're sometimes basing their reaction on what your reaction is going to be, especially when they get closer to a year, you know, and so they're watching you to know how to interact with their environment, and so that's why I feel like play doesn't have to be, you know, a half hour rattle in the face, though baby might really enjoy that. 

18:15
I think play can be just involving baby in your daily life. So, you know, when I was folding the laundry, I would do the parachute thing you know, with the sheet over my baby and that is play. 

18:27
You know that, and that made them giggle and made them laugh, and I was also getting the laundry done, and so it was a double-edged win-win. Yeah, yeah. And also, you know, talking to them and, and you know, obviously I like talking as we're doing now Win-win, engaging them in what you're doing. So play doesn't have to be solely focused on the baby. It could be making sure the baby is just interacting with you while you're going about your day, because that's going to be really stimulating for them and it's always incredible you mentioned like your baby, just like the trees. 

19:11
you know, if you take a six month old out for lunch, like you probably put them down for a nap after because, being in that restaurant with other people. There's talking. There's new food there's you know, it's that that is so stimulating, so much more for a baby than it would be for you or I. 

19:26 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Yeah, yeah. Is there something said about the mom voice? How you're like, whenever I talk to a baby or even a puppy or a dog, it's like, oh, we just puppy set our dog, sat my sister's dog, and the voice came out again. I was like, oh, do you need to go outside? Like I'm like, why am I talking like this? I've done this in a while, but is that stimulating for baby's brains to have? Like I don't know. I think I heard it called that too. 

19:53 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
You know it must be. I can't quote a good study for you on that, but it's again like that bright engagement of, oh, I'm interested in you, I'm excited by you, like what we're doing is exciting. You, you're, you know, and I think that that's what that does too. Is it kind of kicks in for the infant that you're excited to be there and you're, and this is something you want. Good morning If this is something you want and you're good for me. Like I don't know if you also is like I would sing all the time and still do, just making up songs about what I like the boring things that I'm doing. 

20:26
I'm trying to remember what my song was last night. I think it was. We were just. You know, it'll be like a changing diaper song. 

20:34 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Yes, oh, during potty training we made up some really good songs. Yes, great. 

20:38 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Then you were like why don't I write songs? I could do this for a living, you know. But to be fair, I don't. I always feel like that first year you can never remember anything that you did like five minutes before either. So the fact that I remember that I sang something last night, I think, is good for me. But there is a bit of that like you get that mush brain after delivery too. 

21:01 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Oh for sure I didn't. They say it takes like two years for your brain chemistry to get back to normal and then you're having your other baby yeah. So I was like okay, so for about? Uh, what was it? Six years, I didn't have brain function any. Seven years, he was just gone. He was mushed for a while. 

21:19 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
I don't know how old you are, but I had kids a little later and then you like, get into perimenopause. 

21:23 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
I don't think you ever, I think we're entering the brain fog. I keep reading about that belly fat brain fog and I was like okay, so that's a thing now Great. What about baby carriers, like how does that help with with bonding? 

21:40 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
I think it does help just have so, especially for your really little babies and we were talking about the golden hour, but I work in the NICU and for really little babies that are born maybe too early. That's a big population of premature babies that I see. We're always looking at their vital signs, so we're looking at things like their heart rate and their breathing and their oxygen levels and we know that when these little babies get put skin to skin with their parents, it helps stabilize all of their vital signs and you can see it on the monitors and it's really cool because premature babies have trouble sometimes controlling their breathing and their oxygen levels and you put them on their parents and it's like magic right um. 

22:20
So when you are able to be close to a baby and you're holding them, let's say you're breastfeeding, let's say you've decided that's how you want to feed baby um, it's going to help stimulate your hormones, it's going to help with that oxytocin release, which is a bonding hormone for you and baby, and it may also stabilize the baby's vital signs. We don't, you know, have that good information in term babies, because we're not monitoring all our babies that we take home from the hospital when they're healthy term babies right so but there's something to be said for that closeness, you know, probably for you as the caregiver and also for baby. 

22:53 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Yeah. 

22:55 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
And so I was always a big fan of baby wearing. I always loved to do it. I could never quite figure out the um, the big wrap, yeah, the one, that was just a big wrap, and I was always jealous me too. 

23:06 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
My friend really got the wrap, she had it down and it was like perfect for her and I would always have to pull up the youtube video and then I get a minute and I'm like okay, it's crooked, this isn't working, so I stuck with the one with snaps and I liked the snaps one too. Which one's your favorite? 

23:23 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Um, I have one that I've. Oh my God, it's probably in this room, but we're doing a podcast. It's the baby Bjorn one. Which one? Wait, hold on, let me grab it, let me grab it. 

23:32 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Can I grab it? Okay, yeah, there's so many out there now I felt like when I had them, there were like two or three types. Now there's thousands. 

23:42 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Yeah, there's like, there's the the ring sling, there's a sling sling. There's some that are actually like built for your body but you have to size them oh slings, which I never. I never liked those because I feel like your size changes so much around pregnancy here. 

23:56 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Let me grab this one because I've got it. That's my favorite ergo or ergo, I'm not sure how to pronounce it. Go, it's an ergo baby. That was the one I had and I loved it. I think I used it until they were maybe two. 

24:12 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
I I used it forever every grocery store trip love this one and I had the infant insert for when they were little um so that they could be really close to my neck yes, so I could watch them breathing and um, and you can see this is like stained. You know this one because they drool on it. Yes, yes, so I, even I still put my one-year-old in this. She's like 16, but she's very tiny little one-year-old so, so she still goes in there. 

24:38 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Oh, totally I. We went on a hike a little while ago and I told my husband I'm like, do you remember the last time we did this? Like it's been. It's been years, but I'm like I had jet on me and I was doing this hike Like he was with me in this little carrier. I'm like it's been a while since we've done it, but whoa like, how did I do that Carrying this big old kid around? 

24:59 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Yeah, it's crazy, I mean. So I I really like baby wearing. You have to be careful of how you're positioning the hips. Yeah, it's not the only way that you're carrying them, but I think that it brings a closeness and particularly in those early days, if you're breastfeeding, it could help you with getting your milk supply in and yeah yeah um, what would you say to? 

25:18 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
um, hold on, I missed it. Oh no, I'm gonna ask you this one um, there's a lot of noise with babies and feeding and cry it out, and this what do you tell parents? 

25:32 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
is like the most important thing yeah, I I often get parents being like kind of like a little bit of the earlier conversation we were having. What do I need to get for my baby to make sure I'm prepared to have the baby? 

25:47 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
And. 

25:47 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
I and I remember for my first making this really extensive baby registry because I thought somehow having all these things would make me a better parent. I don't know exactly what I was thinking, but you start to nest a little bit when you're especially at the end of your pregnancy. And then I sort of realized for my third that I didn't really need more than half the things that were on the baby register it's almost like it's such a it can be a really difficult stage of parenting because it's so demanding, because the baby needs 24 seven care, and so you're always having to be on for a baby, whether it be you or another loving caregiver, and so that's one thing if you could put it on a baby registry. 

26:25
Just having other safe, stable, nurturing relationships around you as other caregivers for baby is so important for mental health, for baby's development, for caring for this very demanding person that needs you throughout the all hours of the day, and night, right. 

26:45 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Day and night. 

26:47 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Totally that is. And then if you have those other safe, stable nurturing relationships, you're sort of modeling those for a baby too. And remember, modeling is really important for how kids grow. They see how their parents are doing things and that's how they want to do things too, because their brain is just being wired that way. What was the initial question? Sorry, because I didn't have time to point out what really meant. 

27:11 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
like you hear about feeding, you hear about sleep training, you hear about like all these things, but what really is the most important thing? 

27:20 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Yeah, Well, that's where I want to get back to. So you're, making sure you have these safe, stable, nurturing relationships is so important, but at the end of the day, you are really enough. You don't need to buy all these things. You need to, and I always tell parents to take a step back. 

27:35
And what I really love doing with my third baby that I hadn't thought to do with my first and second is make a vision board for kind of the relationship I wanted to have with them, the qualities that I really wanted to pass down to them, what my legacy with them would be. So I got into some big thinking about this relationship with this child and the vision board was a really nice way to do that. And then it reminded me the things that are really important to me are not commercial things or material things, they're qualities. There's time spent there and I feel like knowing that you're enough, that you don't need all these other things, and really focusing on the type of person you want to raise, I think could help drown out some of that noise of that very demanding and and sleep deprivation time. 

28:22 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
There's this trend going on, I think, on TikTok or Instagram, where it's um, I forgot, this is what it was really all about, or supposed to be about. And it's just like a kid just playing, you know, or just like this simple moment at home, and you're like yeah, you're right. Like we went to the beach yesterday, my middle son was like mom, I really want to play soccer at the beach, Like I want you to play soccer with me. And I was like, oh, you want me to play, okay, and like it was so boring I did not enjoy playing, but I was like but this is what it's about. 

28:54
See, I was just going to say like, oh, that's better than the rattle, but it was also like okay, like it's really crowded around here and it's hot right now and we're getting all sandy. But I was like but he asked me to play. Like he usually when it comes to sports and stuff, it's like, oh, dad will play. And so I was like, oh, that's so sweet of him. Also, I did not love playing soccer on the beach with him, but it was like oh, this is really all that matters. It doesn't matter that we have like the cool boogie board and the this. It's like I just want to be at the beach and play with you. And our soccer ball was like half flat too. But he was just like, oh, this was fun. He did say at the end this was the best day. It was so great. I'm like so sweet. 

29:34 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Yeah, that's so sweet and that's what it's all about play and having fun and that connection. 

29:39 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Yeah, yeah, okay, tell us about your book, the baby bonding book. What inspired you to write that? 

29:45 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
I've taken care of many, many babies. There are some really other great baby books out there that are great reference books for when you have a question on baby and you want to know. You were mentioning things like sleep training, but none of the books were very narrative and kind of telling stories and sharing uncertainties, which is such a big part of newborn parenting. So I really wanted to make something approachable that families could pick up and read and maybe see a little bit of themselves in. So it's very narrative, based about stories of the many babies I've taken care of, including my own. 

30:19
And I'm hoping it's something that people can connect with and realize. You know there are things to do to keep your baby safe, right and help them thrive, but that stability and that nurturing is something that you can grow over time as you grow your relationship with your baby. 

30:35 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
I love that and it makes it feel more like you can enjoy this phase as well, cause so much of it is keep this baby alive, make sure they're on this, make sure they do this and you forget like this is. It doesn't feel like it at the time, but this is just a snapshot in their little life, like it is going to go fast and like I look back now and I'm like I would give anything to just have them nap on me again, like I don't think I enjoyed it enough when I was like nope, I've got to put them in their crib so that they sleep in their crib and I can get laundry done and get this done, instead of just being like oh look, how sweet you are, I just want to hold you. 

31:09 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Yeah, we call our house a happy mess. Now I think you're seeing some of the happy mess, because it's not going to be forever. 

31:18 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Yes. 

31:19 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
You really have to try to enjoy those moments. But again it was really demanding to parent those little ones. 

31:24 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
It's hard in the moment when you're feeling it, and then you look back later and you're like, oh yeah, that did go pretty fast yeah. 

31:31 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Yeah, it was more control than you thought you had. For sure, for sure, and really can vocalize their needs. 

31:38 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Yeah, OK, tell us where we can find you and your book. 

31:43 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
You can find me I'm mostly on Instagram, joe and your book. You can find me I'm mostly on Instagram, joe. Parkalinkymd is my handle, so definitely look for me there. I'll post about the book and also about my family. At times. I do a lot of work for the American Academy of Pediatrics, so they have a parent facing arm of the American Academy of Pediatrics that's great for parenting advice and also kid issues and it's called Healthy Children. So if you go to Healthy Children definitely can look up good information there and I do videos for them as well on their Instagram that often include my kids so you could see them in those. And then the book is being published by the American Academy of Pediatrics so you can get it there or anywhere else where you buy books, but it's good, I think, to buy direct from the publisher. So check out the American Academy of Pediatrics Publishing. 

32:29 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
That's awesome. Well, congrats on writing a book and thank you for all you're doing for us as moms and new parents. 

32:36 - Dr. Joanna Pargar-Belinkie (Guest)
Well, thank you so much for talking to me, katie, and this was such a pleasure. I really enjoyed chatting with you. 

32:49 - Katie Fenkse  (Host)
Special thanks to Dr Parga Balinky for coming on and sharing everything she knows about baby bonding that special time with your newborn. I feel like every new mom needs to hear this. So if you know someone who is about to have a baby, please forward them this episode and check out the baby bonding book. I have it in the description below. So until next week, moms. I want to remind you that everyone burns their first pancake, so just keep flipping. Thank you.