#164 The evolution of internal communication (ft. Rachel Miller)

Internal communication has travelled a fascinating road over the past two decades  from being overlooked or undervalued, to becoming mission-critical during the COVID pandemic. But as the spotlight intensified, so did the pressure.

In this episode of the Less Chatter, More Matter podcats, we're joined by Rachel Miller, founder of All Things IC, Fellow of the Institute of Internal Communication, and author of Internal Communication Strategy. With more than 20 years’ experience in internal communication, Rachel shares a candid and thoughtful perspective on where the profession stands today.

Together, they explore how COVID elevated the visibility of internal comms, the unintended consequences of “always on” communication, and why it may be time to reset the rhythm. Rachel unpacks some of the most persistent myths about internal communication, including the idea that it’s just about sending information, that it can’t be measured, or that it belongs to one team alone.

Rachel also explains her Miller Framework for building effective internal communication strategies, discusses the importance of accessible and inclusive communication, and offers practical advice for those looking to enter or grow within the profession.

Hear more on the evolution of internal comms.

Links mentioned in this episode:

• Rachel's website
• Rachel's LinkedIn
• 90 minute Strategy Power Session
• Public workshops and training
• Less Chatter, More Matter - Mel’s book
• Template packs
• Change Isn't Hard! - Mel's book
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Transcript

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From non-existent to the poor cousin of external comms, and finally, as the critical team during the COVID Pandemic, internal comms has come a long way in the last few decades, and as we've traversed this weird and wonderful road, the work we do and the role we play in businesses continues to shift. So the question is. Where are we now and where do we need to be and what might be holding us back? Well, one person with her eyes on all things internal comms is Rachel Miller. Rachel Miller is an internationally recognised authority on internal communication and is based in London. She's a former journalist with more than 20 years IC experience, and she advises many of the world's best known companies through her consulting business, All Things IC. She is a fellow of the Institute of Internal Communication, the Chartered Institute of Public Relations and Centre for Strategic Communication Excellence. She was awarded CIPR's President's Medal in 2020 for distinguished service to PR. Rachel is also a keynote speaker, the host of the Candid Comms Podcast, and she's an industry thought leader in the University of Florida's IC Research Hub. Her first book, Internal Communication Strategy was published by Kogan Page in 2024, and her next book, Successful Change Communication, will be published by Kogan Page again next. Super exciting. Now, in this episode, Rachel shares her thoughts on the evolution of internal comms, some of the common myths about the profession and her Miller framework for internal comm strategy, and honestly, so much more. It is great insights from a greater person. So without further ado, here's Rachel. Rachel Miller, welcome to Less Chatter, More Matter. Thank you so much. Lovely to be here and it's lovely to finally have you on the podcast. I've been fangirling after you for many years now via LinkedIn. Oh, bless you. But before, but before we get into it, let's, uh, learn a bit, a bit, uh, about you. Who are you, what do you do? How did you come to develop your expertise in this space? So I am the founder of All Things IC. My name is Rachel Miller and. I discovered the wonderful world of internal communication back in 2003. I was working as a journalist for four years before that, and I remember when I came across this... job description of an internal communication executive. I thought, I don't know what that is, but everything that I had typed into monster.co.uk, which was how you got a job pre LinkedIn days back, back in the UK back in the day, um, I typed in all the things I loved doing as a journalist, so writing, editing, meeting people, interviewing, and it came up with internal communication and there began the love affair; and it, we are still going strong all these years in, so I started to work in internal comms. I spent 10 years in-house, and then in 2013 I launched my own business and have the pleasure of consulting, mentoring, and training in-house internal communicators around the globe. So this love affair is still going very, very strong. Yeah, well over a decade in for your own business. So, well, firstly, congratulations. That's a lot of hard work to keep that going for so long. Um, but why did you decide to go out on your own? I'm just curious to know. I'd been blogging for four years and working out loud, and I couldn't write about what I was working on because I was working in house. And as you know, when you are working in internal comms, our jobs are very invisible, but. I saw the value in sharing my knowledge in building a community. Um. And after four years, people kept approaching me saying, Rachel, I love what you're writing. Can I work with you? And I couldn't because I was working in house and then I had my daughter in 2012 and I thought, I'm gonna give it a go. I'm going to register the business while I was on maternity leave and I decided not to go back to working in house, but to launch, and All Things IC was my Twitter handle. So when I was trying to name the business, which is one of the hardest things you can do to, to name a business, um, people started to refer to me as Rachel from All Things IC, which was my Twitter handle, and I thought, well, it's broad enough to cover everything that I'm writing about and blogging about, and speaking about. I started to speak at conferences, so I decided to be really brave and launch my business. And it's the best career decision I've ever made. Now I don't, I don't regret it at all. It was felt huge at the time. Felt really overwhelming because I had a newborn baby and I had no guarantee that this was gonna work out. So my husband and I took a 90 day mortgage break. And I thought, you've got 90 days to make this work, and if you can bring in money in the first 90 days, then you can keep on doing it. So I set myself that goal and was successful. I was determined I was gonna be successful within 90 days to prove to myself and also to go back to all those wonderful comms friends who got in touch and said, can you work with us? I then went back to them and said, were you serious about working together? Which was so scary. Um, and thankfully they, they said yes. So what I launched with in 2013. It was the world of enterprise social networks. Yammer had just been bought by Microsoft. We were all talking about social media's use for internal comms, and that was very much what I was doing in that early part of my business. That first chapter was very much about collaboration and encouraging people to, to be brave and work out loud inside their organisation. So lots of social media, policy creation, lots of conversations with leaders about. It's okay for you to do your own updates rather than go through the comms team, which is unthinkable today, really, that it's so embedded now in the way that we communicate. But 13 years ago, that felt like a huge leap. So I was helping in-house internal communicators smooth that way, and create the path for their leaders particularly. Yeah. That's awesome. And it's, it's actually one of the questions I have for you is, you know, I've, I've seen internal comms evolve a lot over the last 20 years in particular. And you know, it went from being the poor cousin of external comms in many respects, where, you know, it was just, oh, it was a nice to have, not, not every business even had an internal comms team or knew what it was, uh, to now, you know, especially during the COVID years becoming quite an integral part of a lot of businesses. What are some of the... Changes that you've seen in the role that internal comms plays in businesses now maybe compared to like 10, 15 years ago? I, I think you're right. COVID was, I mean, our, our roles are incredibly visible anyway, but COVID really. I had a lot, we had a lot of eyes on us and a lot of expectations placed on us as internal communicators in a, in a way that we'd kind of been hoping for for a long time. I would say the, you know, the articles online always are about having a seat at the table and all these really cliched phrases that the reason they make people roll their eyes is because they've been around for so long, but. That's the reality for many in-house internal comms folks, that they still are pushing against closed doors. And I think the period of COVID was incredibly stressful for, for everybody. Um, it's not right for us to say it was our time to shine because it was a really, you know, the backdrop of, of the world at that time was incredibly dark and incredibly stressful and frustrating and, and worrying for, for all of us. So. But what did happen was some businesses started to make that shift, as you say, from need, need to have or nice to have, sorry, to need to have. They realised that it wasn't a, a nice thing to be able to communicate with their employees actually became essential as we were keeping each other safe, keeping each other informed, keeping our workforce together, particularly if we weren't able to go to our regular places of work. And I remember at that time I, I featured a belonging consultant on my website, Isabelle Collins. And she wrote about that sense of belonging, which was a current, you know, undercurrent throughout COVID for us as communicators. And she wrote. That our sense of belonging was taken for granted until it was taken away. Yeah, and that really resonated with me, and it really set the tone for that period of time thinking, how can I help organisations create a sense of belonging? How can I help them to realise that this isn't just a nice to have? It's actually essential that. Our people, if they're working in a different place, still feel connected, still feel engaged, inspired, motivated, still believe in the purpose of the organisation. So communication was the, the glue really that bound a lot of organisations together throughout that time. But it came with pressure. Mel it came with. Oh my goodness. It's the, the cadence, the rhythm of communication. In that time, I, I've never seen as much burnout. I've never seen, I, I mean, clients quite regularly cry with me and I, and I, and I take that as a, you know, a confidential space, a, a safe space where they can just be and just bring however they are and, and wherever they're at. But I've never seen so many tears shed as that period of time because the pressure was absolutely on. So I'd love to say that that's continued in terms of the, the lights have been turned on in organisations and they're still seeing the value. That's true in some cases. But what it is also true has been that that pressure on an in-house internal communicators, that cadence, that frenetic, that always on mentality that we did in that time because... We had to, there was no, there was no choice. I think that has raised expectations of internal communicators in not such a healthy way in some organisations. So what a time, what a time to be working in in comms. My goodness. We think we all learned so much. I remember clients saying to me, um, Rachel, what do you think I should advise on furlough of me saying, let me just Google that and then well. We were making up policy on the fly. Like I, I was, I was leading an in the internal comms team at a, a large financial services company in that year. And we didn't have a work from home policy in terms of can you take, you know, all your belonging, like all your equipment home, you know, what happens if you've got kids at home that need, um, homeschooling and, and all that sort of stuff. Like there was nothing. So I remember just me and one of the HR business partners, I'd write something and go, what do you think? Does that sound. Like it would fit within the HR world, just like, yep, sounds good. Off we go. No, but, but look, look at those skills that we have, right? We know we have to be adaptable and flexible and all, all those good things, but I think when you are in the middle of a situation like that, we really, the pressure was really on, but mm-hmm. People, there was so much work there to be proud of. I, I judge a lot of industry awards and, and. I shed a lot of tears in that time from reading those awards. I remember there's a couple of award schemes where people were talking about COVID and over the next few years after the pandemic, particularly just reading through what internal communicators did and the difference that they made in their organisations made me so proud. But they were raw. It was really raw and, and there was a lot. Quite a bruising experience for for many people. Um, and I certainly was homeschooling three kids at the time. I, my twins were five and my daughter was seven. So, um, I think we just adapt, right? You just, we had no choice but, but to adapt. Uh, but I was quite pleased. Pleased. Maybe you got a little mad in the process. But you know. Oh yeah, for sure. But I think, I think it was just, if I look back at it now, it's unthinkable some of the things that you just did in that time because we just had to get on with it. So I think, yeah, lots of lessons learned and lots of good conversations about internal comms, which have continued, which I'm really pleased to see. But I think if, if you are listening to this and you're thinking about the way that you communicate in your organisation and... You are aware that the rhythm still feels like the pandemic times, then just have a look at that because it, that's on us to drop it back down. Mm-hmm. If we are communicating this always on, always frenetic, you know, three times a week update or whatever we got into the habit of doing because we have to, what would happen if you create some space in your comms channels in, in the cadence? What, what would the impact be? I really encourage people to. To think about that because that has to come from us, that signal of our return to usual, you know, business as usual, that that can start with us. So if you're waiting for permission, this is it. Yeah. Love it. Uh, look, and I wanna touch on something you mentioned earlier. When you first started out on your own, a lot of the work you were doing was social media policies and that sort of stuff. What's some of the typical work you are working on now with your clients? All sorts. We work with lots of companies you you'll have heard of on things you'll never hear about. So we do lots of very confidential work around, uh, leadership communication around restructures, uh, and you know, I mean job losses. Redundancies helping leaders to come into organisations, so CEO, exit, entrances, plans, things like that. The majority of our work is, is under three areas, so it's training, consultancy, and mentoring. So sometimes that could be, there's a, a director of comms in an organisation who's just come in and they ask us to look at their organisation to audit their internal comms channels, to look at their team and to make sure that they're set up for success. So they've got the right people in the right roles, they've got the right channels, and that starts with listening. You know the word audit, it means to listen, to hear. So that's our mindset. So I've conducted 25 audits over the past 13 years, and that means that we've seen a lot of what works, but we've also seen a lot of what doesn't work, and I keep really focused. Now, when we go into an audit, we set a high, we set a hypothesis, which is what do you wanna prove or disprove? Mm-hmm. Because if not, when you start auditing the very first view that I did, my goodness, everyone tells you everything's important. And that's really hard to then do something with it afterwards because it, I think having a hypothesis helps us keep on track. So whether you want to prove that leadership communication is not reaching your front line, then that gives me a lens to look through and I'm going, that's gonna be my evidence that I'm gonna seek. So. Lots of work around audits, lots of work around training and bringing people together, creating safe spaces, whether that's online or whether that's in person to create the space to work on, not just in our jobs as internal communicators. And that feels like a luxury. That feels like I don't have time to pause, reflect, analyse. I hear that constantly from comms leaders who say, Rachel, I don't possibly have time to do planning. I don't possibly have time to do measurement. But the buck stops with you when you are the leader of that comms team. Your team needs you to work on, not just in. So I am a big advocate of that, of helping comms leaders particularly create the space to work on, not just in, and then it sets their team up for success. I love that. And I wanna switch a little bit here because I'm curious for your thoughts on this. What do you think are some of the myths around internal comms? Oh, there's so many. There's so many. So I published a list on my blog back in 2017, um, and it was things that I kept seeing and hearing and saying, so I've got a list for you. The number one is that internal comms belongs to one person or team. Mm. It's too important to really be left to one team, one department, or one person. It is everybody's responsibility. We may be the budget holders and the standard Keepers, you know, and setters of the standards, but it belongs to everyone. Everyone has a responsibility there. It's in our job title, but it's in most people's job descriptions. So that myth that it's just down to one person to communicate is wrong. Um, second one. The second one is that external comms should be treated separately from internal comms. I think one of the biggest changes I've seen certainly throughout my tenure in internal comms is, is the, the. Merging of internal and external communication and the planning of how communication happens as well. Even if your team is separate, if you have the respective disciplines of internal and external communication, you need great relationships with our colleagues. It's so important, not least for repurposing content, for planning for internal and external use. There's so many good things that happen, so that myth of it needs to be separate. Um, I think is wrong. The third one is that social media has no role to play in internal communication. I'm fascinated by, by the topic of social media. I was started to research it in 2008. I was doing a post-graduate diploma through the Institute of Internal Communication, while also working in-house in the railway. And there was a real fear around social media and I... Was trying to really understand what happens when we encourage people to work out loud and what happens when previously invisible people, ideas and conversations surface inside an organisation. So I think the social media aspect of comms was really misunderstood at that time and, and again, when I was creating these myths in 2017 because, and today probably you can't treat how your employees are communicating is separate from the work that they're doing. If I, I believe that ethos of my business is what happens inside is reflected outside. Mm-hmm. So if you've got a toxic culture, it's gonna seep out. If you've got a positive culture, it's going to seep out. So social media, you know, medium is only social if it allows for interaction. Interaction is the lifeblood of communication that two way. So super important. The other myth is that number four is that internal comms is about telling people what to do, and there's that perception that we are here to, you know, to tell people off, and that's simply untrue. So it is about creating a shared understanding and a shared meaning inside organisations, because only then can employees align themselves with our goals, our ambitions, our purpose. So that shared understanding and meaning is... Crucial for internal communication. There's also a myth that internal comms is about sending out stuff, or SOS as it became known here in the uk. Uh, it was a, a phrase that was coined by Russell Grossman, who was leading the government communication service, which is a brilliant community of people who are working in, uh, local and national government here in the uk and they have excellent resources online. So it's the government communication service. And I remember Russell talking about that, that we are not just sending out stuff. It's not one way, it's not broadcast, but there's still that perception in lots of organisations. The next one for me is that you can't measure internal comms. Yeah. Yeah, you absolutely can. Yes, you can. Measuring internal goals, um, I, I think the, the key for me is getting organised and planning. So when I'm judging industry awards, there's always a massive section for measurement, and it's normally a quarter of the marks, and it's always combined with the very first section, which will be your goals, your strategy, your objectives, and the criteria for measurement normally is. Did they achieve the goals, the strategy, the objectives, and so often they're treated as separate. So often so much energy goes into planning and objectives and goals and KPIs and all the other things that we talk about, but then there's no correlation between outcomes. Yeah. We get so locked into output. So how many stories on the internet, how many people attended a town hall rather than the outcomes, which is so what's happened as a result? So it is the language for me that's often missing. And I would say today, if I was writing it today, I would probably add AI in there. We've done amazingly well to get what, what are we, 15, 20 minutes into a conversation and we haven't mentioned ai. Not yet. Wait for it. So in the same way, employee generated content doesn't threaten the job of internal communicators, nor does ai. It's about understanding its use and understanding what's appropriate and making. I, I often describe this as creating, um, boundaries, but having flexibility within boundaries. So you set the boundaries, but then you give your people the freedom to express themselves. Hmm. It's not about having identity kit every employee communicating in the same way. It's about creating that environment and community for people to thrive by enabling them to communicate well in, in their own way. And the last one is, frontline employees aren't concerned with company strategy. Yeah. Hear that all the time. How do you know, have you asked them, have you asked them what it means for them to, to be part of the organisation? So some quite chunky ones there. Mm. Um, in terms of myths, and I'm curious to know whether your, your listeners will have their own. I'm sure they will. Yeah. Oh, for sure. And I think that last one too. If you think they don't care about it, well then you haven't made it meaningful for them. You know, like it does mean something to Maryanne in the mail room. It just means something different to her than it does to Callum in the call centre. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's actually, well, what's meaningful to that person? And if the strategy doesn't serve the whole business, then it's not a strategy, it's a, it's a program of work over here somewhere. Okay. Anyway, we could talk about that for hours. Literally fist in the air go. Yes. Yes. So let's talk about your book now. You have, um, you have a book out that's been out for a little while now, and I know you've got another one coming out, so we'll talk about that in a minute. Sure. But your first book is Internal Communication Strategy. So firstly, congratulations on writing a book. Thanks. Uh, now you talk about the Miller Framework in that book, so can you tell us a bit about that? Sure. The Miller Framework I developed because. Um, I used to write internal communication strategies and, and view them like a map and, and look at where's an organisation now, where does it need to go and how are we gonna get from A to B? So it was very much who, what, when, where, how, why, how much. Um, and, and I wrote internal comm strategies like that. And then I realised over time that I needed more. I needed to. Go in depth into certain areas more. So I created Miller, which is mindset, insights, logistics, leadership, evaluation and revision as a framework for me to be able to make sure I was giving equal weight to all of those. So your, your mindset is your business priorities, vision. And why internal communication is important. Your insights is what you know about the organisation and its people. Logistics is how internal communication happens and what you're prioritising. Leadership is how we will deliver the strategy in terms of IC professionals, and then also the role that leaders and managers play. Going back to that myth that it just belongs to one person. Evaluation, I do mean measurement. How we measure and evaluate internal communication and then revision is because once you've written a strategy, it's not a one and done thing. It's about what happens next in the life cycle of the strategy, next steps, and when it'll be updated. So I... Created the framework to give me something to really hang everything off. In terms of when I'm thinking about strategy, often when we are thinking about the way that an organisation communicates, we might go really heavy on logistics. We might talk about channels and channel plans and, and the rhythm and, and we get really locked into that, but without. Zooming out and thinking about the mindset in terms of what's required from communication in this business. What are our business priorities? Why is internal communication important here? Whether we are curing patients, selling widgets, transporting people, the nuances and, and the beauty of working with organisations on their communication is that bit, it's what makes you special and unique. So I should be able to cover over a logo on a strategy, and know. That this is a particular organisation because I can see what makes you special and unique. And I'd got to the point where I realised that that wasn't, that wasn't happening in lots of organisations. It was very much could be identity, it could be the competitor. So I'm really focused on that, the mindset and the insights, what you know about the organisation and its people. If it's hard to reach, if it's people who are offline, if it's people with long service, if it's a unionised organisation. That's vital to be aware of, to help you plan a good effective internal comm strategy. Mm-hmm. Um, I was also sick of people stealing my work, Mel. Yes. So I put my name, I love it. 1,800 blog posts and 75 podcast episodes available for people to use and, and I share very freely, but there's something about. That structure for me that I know how, how useful I find it, and I feel I'm so proud of this, I am gonna put my name on it, not just, so when I spot it, I, I, I see, know where it comes from. Well, it also helps that your surname has so many great letters for an acronym, so that to my husband. Yeah. I've got three, so I'm, I'm pretty limited and one of them's a y so that's not very helpful. But, you know, I, I do wanna touch a little bit on that too, because just wearing my other hat, as somebody who helps people get started in consulting, there are people who are worried about people stealing their stuff, you know, and putting something onto LinkedIn, it's like. Well look in this age of ai, you know, like you, I've got hundreds of blog posts and transcripts out there. You know, it's gonna get mined, it's gonna get used. Mm-hmm. Uh, so you've just gotta be aware of that. But to me, there's, there's enough knowledge to go around, there's enough ideas to go around. It's more about how do you apply those ideas in the circumstances where you are. And look, I've seen some pretty blatant copying of my stuff too, where it's literally almost word for word and. They've put a different photo and check that up on LinkedIn. I'm like, okay. Um, but what's your thoughts? You know, is it, is it a safe place to, to play or where's your boundary, I guess? I think. I hear you. I hear you. I've got, I've got a whole folder, um, where people send me, send things that they recognise they've seen online that has made them think of me. I did a whole blog post about it a few years ago to say that there is space and room for everybody and what happens when people, you know, I've had to send legal letters, cease and desist letters, letters to comms consultants to say, um. I know I, I trademark a lot of my models and frameworks. Mm-hmm. Because it's my intellectual property and it's my business and I'm very aware of that. And I'm very cautious and conscious around things that I really value. I trademark. I like the Miller framework, like I've trademark things because it is part of my identity as a business owner, and it's particularly as a consultant. So. I, I wrote, I wrote in that blog post that what happens is when people, if you've been around for a wee while, like I have, you know, been blogging for nearly 17 years next month, then people know how you write. So what happens is when they see that post with a different photo on it, they know your language and they know how you write. So they just screenshot it and send it to me and say, Rachel, just to make you aware, I've just spotted this online. I'm like, okay, thank you. And then. When there's a few from a, from a same person, I will get in touch and say, sure. This is just, you know, not meant to be malicious, but just to make you aware. Mm-hmm. I've had people as well say, is that person working for you? Because language is so similar. Then it makes 'em think that, that person is working for me. And obviously that's not, that's not great. No. So just, I'm really open with it and have conversations and if I. See something that worries me. I seek legal advice. Or more often than not, it's, it's a conversation or a message to say, please, can you help me understand how this has happened? And I will share both instances of like mine and theirs. And sometimes it's, it is naivety and enthusiasm. And other times people would say, oh, I just really like how you wrote that. And I couldn't think of another way to write it. So I That's amazing. I just, I lifted and shifted. Yeah. But if you are a professional communicator. That doesn't look great, that you're not investing the effort and energy into your own goal. So I think it is a safe space to play. But what, but what makes it safe is when you are you, what makes you special and unique, and the way that you talk and the way that you communicate.'cause people ultimately, if you're a consultant, you know, if you are, you are working with All Things IC, you get me, or you get Dan, like, that's in, in my team. That's who you work with. So. That's really important to me in how we show up online. So many people will say you are exactly the same in person as you are online. Like, it's 'cause it's me. I'm not trying, I'm not. So if everyone is being themselves, then you shouldn't be tempted to copy someone else because you wanna be hired for you. So show you. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Thank you. And you know, top tips to our listeners, if you are thinking of getting into consulting, there are some things like Rachel said, you absolutely wanna trademark. I've got some trademarked models as well. Look, it's a long process and it's. And expensive as well. But those things are important, those big things. Um, mm-hmm. And I, yeah, I think you do need to protect the big models, the things that are really unique. Um, let's come bring it back to internal comms for a moment. So for people who are just getting started in internal comms, they're brand new to it or they're looking to transition into it from external comms or change, what would be your top three to five tips for them to hit the ground running? Get to know people who do the job already. So build your network. And we are blessed today with networks like LinkedIn, with groups, with, there's so many people who are working out loud and, and building community. So I would say get to know people who are doing the job. Send them a note. Ask if you can have a, a virtual cup of tea and have, have a chat with them. Respect their time, but go planned with, you know, questions. So what is it that you want to know about internal comms? I would also say look at job descriptions. So if you think, I think I wanna go into this, this area, have a look at lots of different job descriptions because there's often a lack of consistency in the way we talk about the jobs that we do and even the titles and. So I would say have a look at what's out there and what's being asked of in-house internal communicators particularly or, or change communicators to give you a sense of what's expected. Often it will tell you certain qualifications are required or knowledge of certain things are required. That gives you a really good indication of if you decide I wanna work in this field, then actually what would you be hired for? What are people looking for? I would also say join professional bodies, or at the very least have a look at their website. So there's, again, we are spoiled, For choice, there's the International Association of Business Communicators, IABC. There's the Public Relations Society of America. Their employee comm section is very good. Over in the US we have the Institute of Internal Communication, IOIC. We have all the acronyms. Now we have the CIPI. Yeah. Yes, we have exactly CSCE, um, Centre for Strategic Communication Excellence in Australia. Uh, and we also have CIPR inside, which is the Chartered Institute of Public Relations Inside, which is the volunteer group, right, as part of the CIPR. So there are so many communities there, and even if you're not a member. Have a look at their websites, at their blogs, at their online publications and things like the, the final bit of advice I would give is to look at the profession map from the Institute of Internal Communication. It looks like a big wheel, big circle, and in there. On a page are all the skills, knowledge, experience, attitudes, behaviours that you need to have according to the institute to be a great internal communicator. So that is incredibly valuable. I use that constantly in, in my work. And if you become an IOIC member, they have a diagnostic behind, like locked behind a paywall where you can work through the profession map and see what level you are at and and spot the gap. So I think it's. It's not gonna come to you. You need to go actively looking and seeking. I'm yet to meet an internal communicator who isn't generous with their knowledge and won't jump on a call. So I think just ask for help, you'll find, yeah. People willing and able and ready to help you and, and welcome you into this wonderful world of internal comms. Yeah, and look, the worst thing is they could do is say no or just not respond. You'll be okay. Exactly. Exactly. Now you do have a new book coming out soon and it is obviously something that seems to me it's Successful Change Communication. Yay. More change communication books. Are you able to give us a sneak peek of what the book is about? Sure. So it's called Successful Change Communication, how to Inform, involve, and Inspire employees. And I deliberately chose that tagline because we focus so much on how to inform employees during change, and then we might talk a little bit more about how to involve them. So moving from one way to two way communication, but there's room and it is possible to inspire our colleagues during change. So. The, the premise of the book for me was how can I create an opportunity to really surface the stories, the mistakes, the models, the, that whole side of of my work is quite hidden because exactly as we said at the start, it's quite sensitive and I'm under non-disclosure agreements for most of the work that I do, so I can't share. But there's something really magical about a book. I found it with the first one. People say yes, and they're very willing to share their stories and willing to, um, share what works, share what doesn't. So the book is full of stories and ideas and models and things to try to help you inform, involve, and inspire employees during change. It just... flew out, Mel. It was, it was 84,000 words that I wrote over 16 weeks while I was still working it. It was quite cathartic actually, to be able to get those stories out there. And my goodness me, if I had that book when I was in house, it would've helped me so much to be able to pick it up and see people's strategies, to see their key messaging, to see their measurement, to, to read about mistakes. I think we get so locked into change, and then we just move on to the next one. Yes. So I've shown everything I, I've shown the playbook, I've shown the thinking and. It was a total joy to write. I loved writing it and I can't wait for it to come out. So it's coming out in April, 2026. Yes. I was going to ask when we can get our hands on it,'cause I'm excited to read it. Uh, and look, I think with the depth of experience you've got, there's going to be so much in there that people can learn from you. So congratulations on book number two. Super exciting. Thank you very much. Thank you for contributing, which is really exciting. Alright. Yes, for our listeners, I got a lovely email from. Rachel going, I wanna put this little bit from you in your, in my book. Is this okay? I was like, oh my God. I'm like. Again, fangirling. She chose me. I did too. You're doing a great job. I think that's, that's the joy of, of working in this field, right? Is that I think as consultants particularly there, there is, everyone has their lane, everyone has their niche, but there is room for everybody. And the more that we help each other and lift each other up, the more that, you know, people working in-house inside organisations benefit from, from that knowledge and from that experience. So I'm grateful that you said yes. Oh thanks. Well, we have three questions that we ask every guest on the podcast. Are you ready for those, Rachel? Go for it. All right. What's the best communication lesson you ever learned, and how did it change the way you communicate in 2022, I went through diagnosis with my family for Neurodivergence, and as a result of. Really understanding my children. Uh, so two of my children have been diagnosed with autism and A DHD each. That has just taught me so much as a family. It's taught me so much about my own neurodivergence and about how to support them, and it's made me realise how many own goals I've scored inside organisations when it comes to not communicating in a way that was, uh, inclusive enough. Mm-hmm. So. What are the techniques that I, I use and I actually featured my daughter in, in my book writing about what it's like to be neurodivergent and think about change communication. Um, one of the techniques that I use is now a next, I use it constantly at home and I now use it constantly at work. And it's such a simple thing to do, but the impact of it is enormous. So that lesson from my children, I'm four years into using it and it has really unlocked things for many of my clients and comms friends. So I'm really grateful for that. I'm really grateful for that opportunity to, to learn more and then reflect and think, oh my goodness, I could have done things differently. Mm-hmm. So now we, we, we talk about the Maya Angelou quote a lot in my family, if you know better, do better. Oh, I love that. Yeah. That's really cool. Thank you for sharing that. And, uh, yeah, somebody who is neuro spicy as well and has a lot of neuro spicy people in her own family, it, it certainly has been a massive learning curve for me as well. And, um, yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's very powerful learning as well. Next question, what's one thing you wish people would do more of or less of when communicating? So I'm hard of hearing and I lip read constantly. Ah, and I would encourage people to make their communication accessible, so don't hide your mouth when talking. Mm-hmm. I realised during COVID quite how much I was relying on lip reading, because of course I suddenly couldn't communicate and I was quite shocked how I was relying on, on seeing people's mouths. So. You see it all the time online people, people will do videos and they'll hide their mouths while they're talking or they'll be side on and, and that makes it inaccessible. So a plea from me and the hard of hearing and deaf community is try and think about how. How you come across, not just about what you say and how you say it, but whether we can see you and making sure you've got captions on, for example, so we can try and increase our ability to understand and communicate. That's my, my plea.'cause it, it, it makes the world of difference if I can't, if there's no captions or if I can't see a mouth that it's not accessible for me at all. Hmm. And one of the things, uh, a friend of mine, or there's a couple friends of mine who are accessible communications experts, so Matisse Hamel- Nellis, uh, Lisa Reers, Kelly Thibodeau. You know, the point they will make is that accessible communication is actually better for everybody. So putting captions actually helps everybody understand something better. It's, you know, if you're thinking about it just from the lens of. Accessibility. Yeah. I think you're limiting yourself there and not realising, Hey, actually this is just better practice for everyone. Absolutely. Help my children learn how to read because we always have captions on at home, subtitles on at home, so my children are so used to watching TV or films with captions on that I, I can see that it's helped with them with their reading and comprehension. So yes, everybody benefits. That's it. Okay. Last question. Who do you look to for communication advice? My brother actually, which might be a surprise to him, but I think he's very wise. I'm one year, five months and a day older than him, and for any elder siblings you'll know. So you're smarter. Of course that's how this works. But I, I, I ask him, because he is a vicar by profession, so Reverend Matt Allen, our professional world's crossover more than you would think, actually. Mm-hmm. And I, he, he specialises in hermeneutics, which is around how language is translated. And, and he specialises in helping Vicars to preach So. He's using language and communication to provoke reaction to help people understand biblical text. It's fascinating. So our worlds do converge and he has a really excellent phrase that I've not shared before. It's in my new book and it's advice that's given to Vicars to preach from scars, not wounds. And that really resonated with me when I, when I heard it, so. It's around, particularly for change comms, when I'm looking at language, if it feels really raw and it's, we are communicating from a place of hurt versus we are communicating from a place of, we've learned from this, we've been through this before. It's a place of scar if you like. So, so my brother, he is very wise and I just love hearing his view on the world and thinking about how I can integrate it into my world. Yeah, that's so I love that. Maybe we need to get him on the show means. Well, Rachel, thank you so much for your time today. I know how busy you are and uh, you know, you've joined us all the way from London as well, so I appreciate that. If people want to find out more about you, get in touch, learn from you, what's the best way for them to do that? My website is probably the best place. It's All Things IC. So letter I and C so AllThingsIC.com or you can find me on LinkedIn, Rachel Miller. Fantastic. Well, Rachel, thank you so much for joining us on Less Chatter, more Matter. Thanks so much.