Meltdowns

Today's episode is all about meltdowns. Gracie shares what meltdowns were like for her when she was younger and what they look like now that she is older! The reasons meltdowns can happen and some strategies that were used are also discussed on today's episode. If you are struggling with meltdowns, we will continue to share more episodes that are specific to the causes. So keep listening! 

Music: Moments by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com
Cover art photo by Sharon Light Photography

Thanks for listening! Follow us on Facebook or check out our blog at www.wellbalancedlife.ca. And don't forget...you're not alone!

Transcript

Guitar music gently playing

Melanie   0:00
Welcome to Well Balanced Life where we share experiences of living with special needs and how we've overcome the challenges, but also embraced the beauty of this world. I'm Melanie and with me is my daughter Grace so you can hear first hand what it's like living with developmental disabilities.

Melanie   0:17
Today's topic is on meltdowns. We felt like this was a good place to start because it's often the  most challenging symptom but it also leads to diving in to the reasons why they happen. Um, you know, which could be due to sensory, communication, um, change, transitions. There's a whole list of reasons why somebody has a meltdown and, after this episode we hope to kind of narrow down maybe each symptom. We'll talk about each symptom individually. But for today, we're just going to clump it all together.

Melanie   0:50
So... let's get started!
Hi Gracie! Why don't we start with, what is a meltdown?

Grace   0:57
Meltdowns are when I would scream, hurt myself, and cry. And not stop crying.

Melanie   1:04
Were you in control?

Grace  1:06
Ah, sometimes I wasn't.

Melanie  1:08
Right.
So I'm just going to give a definition. The National Autistic Society says "a meltdown is an intense response to an overwhelming situation. It happens when someone becomes completely overwhelmed by their situation, and temporarily loses control of their behaviour".
Did that make sense to you? Did you catch any of that?

Grace   1:30
Yeah.

Melanie   1:31
Would you agree with that?

Grace   1:33
Yes. Yeah.

Melanie   1:34
So...what does a meltdown look like for you?

Grace  1:
You mean when I was younger or today?

Melanie
Actually you know what? That's a good point! It's very different from when you were younger than today, right? Ok. So why don't you start with, what did it look like...what was a meltdown like for you when you were younger?

Grace   1:52
Uh... I would cry and scream, until I get...until I gotted what I wanted.

Melanie   1:57
(With laughter) Did you ever get what you wanted when you cried and screamed like that?

Grace   2:00
No!

Melanie   2:02
(Laughing) So the screaming went on for a long time, didn't it?

Grace   2:05
Yeah. Eventually we talked and then it...it depended like what it was.

Melanie  2:09
Yes, true.

Grace  2:10
Yeah. That's what I was coming across to.

Melanie   2:11
But you...one thing I can say is you would never get rewarded...

Grace   2:17
After a meltdown.

Melanie   2:17
After a meltdown. So if your meltdown was for something even reasonable, you wouldn't get it.

Grace   2:22
Yeah.

Melanie  2:22
Because we couldn't teach you that, that's how you get things. Right?

Grace   2:25
Yeah!

Melanie  2:27
So, what would you do physically to your body?

Grace  2:30
Ah...I would hurt, like I would crack my knuckles. Like I would... you know.

Melanie  2:35
Yep.

Grace  2:36
Not a good thing! Ah...sometimes I would like... did I like... I know that I scratched myself but like, and cracked my knuckles. That's like the only thing. Sometimes I would scratch myself too.

Melanie   2:47
Mhmm.

Grace   2:48
Yeah.

Melanie   2:50
So, um, well full disclosure! We tried to do this podcast the other day, but there wasn't too much coming out right?  Like, (with laughter) Gracie likes to just listen sometimes and zone out and say "yeah! yeah!"

Grace   3:05
(With laughter) Which I am sorry about!

Melanie  3:07
(With laughter) No it's okay! It's okay! This is a... this is a whole new process for us right?

Grace   3:14
Yeah.

Melanie 3:14
We'll get better as we go, and we're learning every day so...it's okay. BUT we were talking about what it looked like for you when you had a meltdown when you were younger.

Grace  3:23
Yeah.

Melanie   3:24
And you said, crying, screaming for hours, and popping my joints.

Grace   3:29
Yeah.

Melanie  3:30
But you forgot about scratching yourself and...

Grace 3:35
Did you say that I bit myself?

Melanie   3:36
No you would bite me.

Grace  3:38
(Gasp!) I'm sorry!

Melanie  3:38
Actually, no! You know what? You did bite yourself!

Grace  3:40
Yeah!

Melanie  3:41
Yeah! You're right you did!

Grace  3:42
And honestly, I do not remember hurting my own mom! (Uncomfortable laughter) - I would never hurt my mom!

Melanie  3:48
I know. It's okay! Um, like we said in that other definition, right? From the um, National Autistic Society?

Grace  3:56
Yeah.

Melanie  3:56
It's..you...you don't have any control over yourself.

Grace  4:00
Yeah.

Melanie  4:01 
During those moments of overwhelm. So, no that's okay! But, um, what I was telling you was, you would scratch yourself and pinch yourself. You would pull your hair.

Grace  4:12
Mhmm.

Melanie  4:12
And you're right you did bite yourself. I forgot about that. That didn't happen too often, but you did bite yourself.

Grace  4:18
Yeah.

Melanie  4:19
Um, and the screaming, you're right. It would go on for hours sometimes. And...could we reason with you during that time?

Grace  4: 27
No.
Well once I  was like, settled down then we would like, talk about, talk about it but...

Melanie  4:36
But we would wait quite a bit.

Grace  4: 37
Yeah.

Melanie  4:37
We would wait a good few hours before we talked about it.

Grace  4:39
(Yawning)

Melanie  4:40
You tired?

Grace  4:41
Sorry.

Melanie  4:41
It's okay.

Grace  4:42
A little bit, yeah. (Melanie and Gracie laugh)

Melanie  4:45
When you had a meltdown...I don't even know if you would remember, um, when you were younger, but, even now, like when you get anxious...what does your body feel like? Does anything happen to your body physically?

Grace  4:57
Um...when I get like anxious or something?

Melanie  4:59
Yeah, like do you feel anything inside your body happening?

Grace  5:01
Um, yeah, when I get excited I get butterflies in my stomach. Um, that's like the only part of getting excited, but like when I'm upset or something, it depends. Like sometimes I get anxious, like I have this weird feeling in my stomach, or if I've cried for a period of time, sometimes I get a headache.  Or especially, sometimes when my brain shuts down, I can't really think of what to say or do.

Melanie  5:29
Right. What does it mean when "your brain shuts down"?

Grace  5:30
It means like, I can't think. Like I don't know what to do.

Melanie  5:36
Yeah. And even now that you're older, would you say...what do...what do your meltdowns look like, now that you're older?

Grace  5:42
Um, my meltdowns...um, I don't scream like I used to or have a big meltdown. I um, I cry.

Melanie  5:49
Well I would say, you haven't had a meltdown in a good few years. Right?

Grace  5:54
Yeah.

Melanie  5:54
But, even when you were, I can't remember if you were 16, 17, maybe even 18...well, no maybe 17 years old. I'll have to look back on the blog. But, what happens after a holiday, especially Christmas?

Grace  6:12
Oh um, yeah! Uh...I am not myself. I am sad, Um, I am disappointed that the fun's over. Even when it's not a holiday! Like when we go on a vacation. Or, like if I came back from camp. I...I'm sad.

Melanie  6:30
Yep!

Grace  6:30
I don't like when fun ends.

Melanie  6:32
Right! And how do you deal with that?

Grace 6:33
Um, well...

Melanie  6:34
Like the next day.

Grace  6:35
I, uh, have a moment. And then I just say, you know, like, I'm very glad that I'm, that I was able to do that...

Melanie  6:45
Ohhh!

Grace  6:45
...fun activity and then I wait patiently to do it next year, or...the next time we go somewhere.

Melanie  6:52
(With laughter) I'm sorry, I'm laughing because, the "patiently"? I don't think I can agree with, but... (still laughing) I mean...(still laughing)...but are you ever patient?

Grace  7:02
(With laughter) Not...but it depends what it is!!

Melanie  7:05
(Still laughing) Not usually! What was our rule when your birthday would come up? When were you allowed to talk about your birthday or Christmas?

Grace  7:12
Um, Christmas we were...so usually I would talk about my birthday, for example, I would be like "mom! I want this for my birthday!" In like February or March. Not even, you know... (laughter)

Melanie  7:24
Or even the day after your birthday! (With laughter)

Grace  7:26
Yeah.

Melanie  7:28
So we gave you...we gave you, um, some boundaries there right? Like you were only allowed to talk about Christmas on December 1st.

Grace 7:34
Yes.

Melanie 7:35
We call it the 'Holiday Hangover' (laughing)

Grace  7:39
Yes.

Melanie  7:40
The holiday hangover because it's such a disappointment after it's done right?

Grace  7:45
Mhmm, yeah. All the fun like...this year, I actually did good!

Melanie  7:49
You've done...you've done fantastic!

Grace  7:50
Yeah, this year I've done really good, cuz...this year, um, with the big snowstorm, I, I was stressed out a couple days because we were...we had... I think it was, like four days of visiting family. And I was a little stressed two days before because I was worried that it was gonna get cancelled because I don't do well with last minute changes. Like if I found out like, a couple days before then I would be sad, have a moment and then... you know. Um, but I don't do well with like right last minute change.

Melanie  8:23
Yeah.

Grace  8:23
So this year, I was very grateful that we got to spend Christmas with the family. You know, like Christmas Eve, we went to my uncle's um, cottage. And then...uh, we...no Christmas Eve we had family at our house and then we went to our uncle's cottage. And then the 26th we went to my cousin Phil's which was a lot of fun! Feels like that was yesterday! Um, and then the 27th,  we went to London for the day and then we came home. So, I think if, I think that what helped me a lot this year was, you know, having a couple extra fun things right after Christmas. And...

Melanie  8:59
Huh! I  never thought of it that way!

Grace  9:00
Having New Year's with Cameron was fun too so I got... I was very lucky to have more fun than what we usually are.

Melanie  9:08
Right.

Grace  9:08
And, last year too, um, we went to Alberta too. And I, I...I cried! On boxing day. I cried. Um, you know...I was sad. Because Christmas was over.

Melanie  9:19
But it... But it's not, you're not crying as much as you used to.

Grace  9:25
Yeah.

Melanie  9:25
You used to cry for a good few hours.

Grace   9:28
Yeah.

Melanie  9:29
Um, just to get it all out!

Grace  9:30
Mhmm.  Yeah!

Melanie  9:31
And then you would be fine. And we knew to just leave you be right?  You would go in your room...

Grace  9:32
Yeah. To like, just leave me alone, have some personal space.

Melanie  9:33
Absolutely! And with all of the visiting too, which we haven't had with covid, you've always needed that down time after, right?

Grace  9:43
Yeah! Covid, um, it's very nice because they say when you do something for, like...some people have traditions where they get together, every year. And, with covid they, families and people, haven't been able to get together unfortunately. But, covid was actually a nice break, and then I was able, you know, now with things opening again, with vaccines and stuff, you know, and things getting better, reopening, you know, it felt sooo good to be able to have that again. And, you know?

Melanie  10:15
Mhmm. That's pretty special this year eh?

Grace  10:17
Yeah, this Christmas was a lot of fun because it was, you know, nice to be able to have that routine that I was used to.

Melanie  10:24
Yeah. So, you've mentioned routine, you've mentioned change is hard for you. So that kind of leads to the next question I had.

Grace  10:30
Yeah.

Melanie   10:30
What are the reasons for the meltdown? Well, we'll talk about you specifically and then maybe we can mention what other kids might be struggling with.

Grace  10:39
Yeah.

Melanie  10:39
So what...what made you have a meltdown?

Grace  10:42
Ah...well, I think it was because, um, I was sad. I didn't really...when I was younger, I didn't really know how to express my feelings as well. For example, one of the... like one of the big ones was when my therapist Natasha moved away. Um, I messed up my room (Melanie starts to laugh). While my grandma was visiting.

Melanie  11:06
Oh did you ever!

Grace  11:07
Yeah.

Melanie  11:07
You destroyed it!

Grace  11:08
Yeah.

Melanie  11:09
Cut up all the paper work from your IBI therapy, and just threw every game and toy, and paper!

Grace  11:11
And, my grandma was visiting...my grandma babysitting!

Melanie  11:21
Your GREAT grandma was babysitting

Grace  11:22
My great-grandma! Talking about this memory can be hard a little bit because my great-grandma passed away in 2020.

Melanie  11:29
Yeah...yeah.

Grace  11:30
(Beginning to tear up) And that memory...um, I would always talk about that with my grandma.

Melanie  11:35
Mhmm.

Grace  11:36
I miss you Grandma! Sorry, I'm getting emotional!

Melanie  11:38
We laughed about that all the time though eh? She loved that story!

Grace  11:41
Yeah, my grandma.

Melanie  11:43
She was so mad at you! (Laughing)

Grace  11:44
Yeah!

Melanie  11:46
But, the funny...the funny thing is, we didn't know why you did that, for a little while!
And it wasn't until I noticed, um, the duck game that you used to play with Tasha with all the time.

Grace  11:58
Yeah.

Melanie 11:59
That was your like, that was just one of the things that you guys did every day, and there was something that you had done with that game...I can't remember now but that's how I was like "oh my gosh!" Cuz, Tasha had just moved away.

Grace  12:10
Yeah.

Melanie  12:10
And I noticed that game was in some kind of formation...I can't remember what it was but I'm like "that's ...that was you getting all of your emotions out.

Grace  12:19
Yeah... well I was...

Melanie  12:19
So that's 'change'

Grace  12:20
Yeah.

Melanie  12:21
Sorry I didn't mean to cut you off there.

Grace  12:22
No that's okay!

Melanie  12:22
That...that was a big change for you. So change has been hard for you. What else was hard for you?

Grace  12:29
Um...with the unknowns.

Melanie  12:32
Yes.

Grace  12:33
The unknowns...still today like, I like, the unknowns are still hard for me today.

Melanie  12:40
Mhmm.

Grace  12:40
Um, I wish there was no such thing as unknowns but there is and I have to sometimes be patient, or you know.

Melanie  12:50
Yep.  So unknowns, change, avoiding things, right? Do you remember school, elementary school?

Grace  12:58
Yes.

Melanie  12:59
You would get really, really, really upset about your school work.

Grace 13:03
Yes! Schoolwork...

Melanie  13:04
If you thought it was too hard.

Grace  13: 07
Yeah, school work in elementary and high school were hard (laugh) but I got help which I was very grateful for.

Melanie  13:11
Mhmm... but I don't know that the school work was actually... it wasn't as hard as you think. I think what the difference is, is you learned how to manage your emotions. And, the biggest thing is, you learned to not panic as soon as you saw the work. You still do panic sometimes right? But we've learned to cut down on your work, so if you are... if you see a whole bunch of work, you go in to panic mode right away (Grace is laughing). And that's when your brain shuts down.

Grace  13:38
Yeah.

Melanie  13:39
Right? You panic right away. And when you were in elementary school, it was big meltdown, and you would have Ms. McKinney, and Ms. Dahmer and Ms. Stahl and all the wonderful people there that helped calm you down.

Grace  13:52
Yeah.

Melanie  13:53
So by them teaching you through social stories and modelling, and practice, you... every year you were learning and growing and figuring that out. So by the time you got to high school, you still kind of struggled with it, and you had an EA at the high school. But even in high school, that started getting cut back even more and more, and you had your sister there. But then your sister left, Josh was still there, but Emma was your go-to person. So, when Emma left, what strategy did you come up with own?

Grace  14:31
Well, um...

Melanie  14:32
I'll give you a hint...
(Whispers) The bathroom.

Grace  14:33
The bathroom (Melanie laughs). I would go and have a moment in the bathroom. (Both Melanie and Grace laughing).

Melanie  14:39
So, so when you would see your work, or you were worried you couldn't do something in class, or you were just overwhelmed, you would ask to be excused?

Grace  14:47
Yes. Yep.

Melanie  14:49
And what would you do?

Grace  14:49
Go to the bathroom and have a moment. And then I would feel better!

Melanie  14:52
What does 'have a moment' look like?

Grace  14:55
Um, a moment is where my brain shuts down, and I'm like, "I can't do this! I give up! Ahh!" Um, but I tell myself that I can do it, and I get it done.

Melanie  15:03
Yeah! Gosh you've come such a long way!

Grace  15:07
Yeah, I have.

Melanie  15:09
So, um, for some people...I think this went for you as well, communication is a big thing.

Grace  15:15
Yeah. Communicating, yep.

Melanie  15:17
If somebody is nonverbal and they cannot express what their needs or their wants are, that can be really, really hard for somebody. But it also can be difficult for somebody who's very verbal. And I'm going to give an example. I went to the Geneva Centre, the autism conference through the Geneva Centre, many years ago. You were just a toddler probably. And I heard this woman named Roz speak. And she had autism. And I remember actually watching her thinking 'oh my gosh, I can totally see Gracie doing this' so you must have been older because you were a talker. And Roz, she was a fantastic presenter. She was so engaging, and entertaining, and educating us so well, but she had said, that um, the year before, or I guess it was 3 or 4 years before because the they do that autism conference every few years. But she was a speaker there and they asked her to put her presentation on a USB stick. 

Grace  16:12
Oh really?

Melanie  16:13
But she didn't know how to do that.

Grace  16:15
Ohhh.

Melanie  16:16
So in her mind, well you know what she did because she couldn't put it on the USB stick? She threw her computer across the room. And it broke.

Grace  16:24
Oh, that's not...that's not what you do to solve a problem. 

Melanie  16:29
True! But, she was saying in her mind...and she was an adult at the time too right? She said in her mind, she wasn't being aggressive, she wasn't being mean, she wasn't being difficult or defiant. In her mind, if the computer is broken,  she wasn't able to put the presentation on a USB stick. 

Grace  16:47
Ohhh....that makes more sense now.

Melanie  16:49
Yeah! So, even if somebody's verbal, they can still struggle with communicating that "hey, I..." like it would have been much easier for her to say "I don't know how to do that, can you help me?"

Grace  16:59
Yeah!

Melanie  17:00
Um, ya! So there's...communication is a huge one. So we'll do a podcast on just a communication episode. And then escape and avoidance. So if there's school work that you don't want to do, or your parents want you to go to the beach and the park and sensory's an issue, right? Um, any sort of escape and avoidance can cause a meltdown. Change in routine. Sensory issues.

Grace  17: 30
Yeah.

Melanie  17:30
Which you have those too. Um, you're hypersensitive to sound. 

Grace  17:36
Yeah.

Melanie  17:37
I think we said transitions, and needs and wants. That was a big one for you!

Grace  17:39
Yes!

Melanie  17:39
If you didn't get what you wanted ...

Grace  17:41
I would be very upset!

Melanie  17:43
Oh would you ever! (Laughing)

Melanie  17:46
What do you think parents should do if their child is having a meltdown?

Grace  17:49
Um, well, give your child a few minutes...like give your child the time to let their emotions out. And then, like we said earlier, then like, wait a few hours and then talk to your child about what's going on, you know.

Melanie  18:04
Mhmm. So you think you needed space during those meltdowns?

Grace  18:06
Yeah. I needed space and time to myself. 

Melanie  18:09
Which, obviously, we would try to give you, but sometimes, it wasn't very safe. 

Grace  18:13
Yeah. Depends on what it was um...

Melanie  18:15
We just have to keep you safe. 

Grace  18:18
Yeah.

Melanie  18:19
So, sometimes I'd have to hold you...tight. Right? Like a little basket hold, I'd be wrapped around you trying to keep you from hurting yourself. Um, but when I say holding you, that was to keep you safe and to stop you from hurting yourself, but holding you also kept you calm. That was, with deep pressure. 

Grace  18:40
Yes, deep pressure.

Melanie  18:42
Do you know what I mean by deep pressure?

Grace  18:43
It's like putting weight on your body. 

Melanie  18:47
Yeah, yeah! Do you think that helps you?

Grace  18:49
Yeah, sometimes. 

Melanie  18:50
Do you remember what we did...it used to help you a lot! 

Grace  18:53
You, you used to put me in my, in the mattress.

Melanie  18:55
Yeah! (Both laughing)

Melanie  18:59
You loved that actually. So we would...I would lift the corner of the mattress up, you would slide in head first, and you'd be laying on the box spring or whatever, and then I would lower the mattress. I wouldn't leave you because that could be dangerous, right? We don't want to put heavy things on you. But you would just lay there, until you said "okay, I'm good" and then I would lift it up and you would come out and that would calm you pretty quick actually. 

Grace  19: 26
Mhmm!

Melanie  19:28
And Nan actually had a good tip. She said a cool shower. 

Grace  19:30
Ohhh...I don't like cool showers.

Melanie  19:33
You don't but...but there was a day that you were having....you were older so it wasn't like an uncontrollable meltdown...ah, it kinda was. But I suggested...

Grace  19:42
What was it about?

Melanie  19:43
I don't remember. But I remember suggesting to you "why don't you go have a cold shower?" and you actually did. And you said it calmed you down. 

Grace  19:51
Ohhhh.

Melanie  19:52
We didn't do that often. 

Grace  19:53
I like, a bathtub temperature of waters. I don't like cold! No, no, no, no. 

Melanie  19:58
What other kind of touch helps to stay calm?

Grace   20:00
Um, tickle! Cuz I love getting massages and tickles. I love it!

Melanie  20:06
Yeah. When you were little, super little. Like toddler little. Dad used to bring you to an osteopath. You wouldn't remember this I don't think. Maybe you do! But...

Grace  20:15
I have a good memory! Maybe!

Melanie  20:18
You could be in... you could cry the whole way and I think it was Newmarket he had to bring you. And you would either be full of energy, or screaming, or whatever. But definitely full of energy, and the second that the osteopath came in, we would lay you down on the table, and they would put their hands right under your head. Like the...under your scalp, the back of your head and you calmed right down for the entire session. 

Grace  20:46
That reminds me...did...did...didn't you say that my head was rounded differently.

Melanie  20:50
It was flat. 

Grace  20:51
It was flat! Yeah!
Is it still flat today or?

Melanie  20:55
Well no, actually the osteopath....well that was the funny thing too! So, Gracie had a flat head, um..

Grace  21:02
I remember I had something wrong with my head! But I like couldn't really remember what it was.

Melanie  21: 06
So, you were laying on your back a lot and so we went to the osteopath, and honestly, had I not noticed the change in your skull, like it rounded out, it's still, a little flat, but it did round out a lot more than what it was, and that's actually when you started having a few more words. 

Grace  21:31
Ohhh. That's cool!

Melanie  21:33
Ummm, you started speaking and you were super calm when we did that. 
The other time that you had your... you spoke more in the day that we brought you to the...I'll never forget it, it was the resource teacher program.  Um, at...it's called One Roof now. I don't know if it was called that before but, you were on the swing. They had a swing there, and you were on the swing, and we were having a meeting with the physiotherapist or somebody, and you were swinging. And you said more words on that swing than you had the entire time you had been with us. 

Grace  22:03
What?!

Melanie  20:03
Yeah! And at that point they said, there isn't any scientific evidence to prove it, but we hear this all the time and we see it all the time. When kids are getting vestibular motion, they communicate more. 

Grace   20:17
Really?! What do you mean ves....veschi...

Melanie  22:19
Vestibular?

Grace  22:19
Sorry! It's such a hard word to pronounce! 

Melanie  22:22
Try it.  Vestibular.

Grace  22:24
Sistibular?

Melanie 22:26
(Laughing) Yep! Close! Vestibular!  That's swinging motion. 

Grace  22:30
Yeah

Melanie  22:32 
So...Okay! What could you say to the kids who might be struggling or maybe they're embarrassed because they've had meltdowns either in the classroom, in front of their friends and peers or out in the community. What...what's some advice you have for the kids?

Grace  22:47
Um, I have some advices is, if you feel like you're getting overwhelmed, you know, need time, like maybe go and ask to take a walk, or go to the washroom. Or need someone to talk to. 

Melanie  23:01
Mhmm. But what if they've already had the meltdown in public and they're embarrassed?

Grace  23:05
Um, well if you're embarrassed, you know, talk to your parent about it and have some time to think, well how can I prevent from the meltdown from happening again. If in a public place again. 

Melanie  23:20
And you know what, I think, this is...I'm glad that we started with this because I think there's so many different episodes that we can do based just on the symptoms that kids have that cause meltdowns. So we'll have to decide do we want to do our first one, like our next episode on the communication piece, or sensory issues, or... I'll let you pick that one, okay?

Grace  23:42
Yeah, mhmm. 

Melanie  23:44
Ok, well that's awesome! Thank you so much for sharing all that! 

Grace  23:46
Yeah no problem! No problem!

Melanie  23:47
That was really good! That was way better than the first time we did it! 

Grace  23:51
Yeah!!

Melanie  23:52
Did it feel better?

Grace  23:53
Yeah! I like it! It feels better! 

Melanie  23:55
Yeah, so I think it's just practice at this right?

Grace  23:58
Yes.

Melanie  23:59
But I think it's great! I think it's a good way to get awareness out, and to help people, right? That's our whole goal,  is to...

Grace  24:05
To help people. 

Melanie  24:07
And we know that every single person out there... like you have quite a few diagnoses. 

Grace  24:13
Yes.

Melanie  24:13
You have autism, intellectual disability, alcohol related neurological disorder (ARND), ADHD-C, and anxiety. 

Grace  24:22
Sounds like a lot! (Laughing) It is! 

Melanie  24:23
It does! But you know what? If somebody looked at you today, they'd never know it. 

Grace  24:29
Yeah.

Melanie  24:29
Right? You have come so far!

Grace  24:30
I know.

Melanie  24:31
(Guitar music fades in)
And your kids can come so far too! Maturity really helped I think

Grace  24:38
Yes, maturity. And getting taught how to be more, how to become more responsible, and... 

Melanie  24:43
Yeah. Awesome! Well thanks for listening everyone! 

Grace  24:47
Thank you for listening! We really appreciate you taking the time to listen to our podcast. 

Melanie  24:52
Yeah! And we'll be back next week 

Grace  24:54
Yes!!

Melanie  24:55
With whatever Gracie chooses to do! 
Have a great day everyone! And don't forget...

Grace  25:00
To like, share, and subscribe!

Melanie  25:04
Right! And I was going to say, don't forget...you're not alone.

Grace  25:08 
Yes!

Guitar music gently plays.