He Polished My Soul: When You Only Have One Quill Left with Deborah Weed

We sit with creator Deborah Weed to explore how love, loss, and art can coexist, and why self-worth must be defined from within. Her stories of hospice dignity, cross-country wandering, and the evolution of Paisley the Musical point to a courageous path back to voice and purpose.

• holding grief and joy in the same body
• caregiving as dignity and soul polishing
• the year of firsts and self-permission to feel
• self-worth versus self-esteem and why it matters
• fear as information, not a prophecy
• Paisley the porcupine and the cost of self-erasure
• reclaiming power when only one quill remains
• parenting, special needs, and a different kind of proud
• real connection beyond social media

“Thank you for listening and watching as we're uh we're on YouTube and a bunch of radio stations and TV stations out there too. So uh thank you for being a part of Real Talk with Tina and Ann. And as always, there is purpose in the pain and there is hope in the journey, and we will see you next time.”

Transcript

Deborah And David’s Love Story

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne. And today we have Deborah Weed. And if she looks familiar, she is because she has been on the show before. Deborah, I've had you on the podcast when I, you know, it was just an amazing uh episode. And I was so thrilled to have you on the first time. And I'm even more thrilled to have you on the second time. And I think that we've become friends. You know, I cherish you as a person. You are the type of person who I respect because you don't hide your pain, your loss. You're transparent about the parts of you that are hurting. But while doing all of that, you're also allowing the joy in. And I really appreciate that about you. You allow overcoming to exist, and you're honest. And the last time you were on, your husband, sadly, was at the end of his life. And I am so sorry for your loss. But you are in a new season as we know that this year of firsts is one of the hardest because grief has a way of demanding things and skills, you know, that we didn't even know that we were learning. And Deborah, you have been a writer, a creator, and the heart behind the quills up movement, a space devoted to self-worth, creativity, and telling the truth out loud. But today we're talking about more than titles or projects. We're talking about what it means to hold joy and grief in the same body at the same time. And we talk about loss, we'll talk about the instinct to hide when the world keeps spinning, and about how art and how your musical, Paisley the Musical, becomes a light slipping into the cracks, grief leaves behind. This is a conversation about loving deeply, losing profoundly, and still choosing to create to live with purpose. So, can you talk about your husband and all the things about him and how long you were together?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Absolutely. I'd be happy to. I'll tell you a little bit about our journey. Um, when I first met him, he was an attorney. And well, he still was 40 years when we were together, but he had this attitude. Like, you know, he would put his arms like this, and it was very off-putting. And, you know, it's so interesting because there was a lot of me that was like, we're so different, like, like tremendously different. How are we gonna put this thing together? Yeah, and but here's the thing. We were, I had been married previously. This was my my second marriage, and we had been literally at 10 places at the same time and had never met each other, and it was almost as if it was it was almost like a meant to be that it was supposed to happen that way. Um, and it was absolutely incredible. We would go into restaurants and like like glasses would fall to the ground, like when we were eating lunch. But one of the things when uh when I wasn't with him, I used to go and I used to pray at this vacant lot. And I'm like, God, please help me, please help me find, you know, somebody amazing or or find a way. And when we got together, his best friend lived next door. One day he's driving the car, and his next door neighbor, you know, or best friend lived right next to that that lot. And it was like, how can that be? How can that be under those circumstances? Really, really, really incredible. So it was kind of like a meant-to-be.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

And I'm gonna be as you know, honest as I possibly can with everybody myself, you know, so many times it was like, what are we doing together? Because he was very logical, I'm very creative, I'm you know, like Daniel, he's very calm and all this stuff. And the reason I'm telling you that is because there's been a lot of my life that you know I had some physical challenges and still do. And um there was one point, Ann, one point towards the end, where I came to him and I'm like, you know, I must be a burden. And it was the hardest thing I had to say because, you know, he was going through his experience, uh, five-year experience of, you know, uh leaving this plane. And here I was still, you know, having my own issues. And he looks at me in and he says, No, you're not a burden. You've helped me to polish my soul. Oh my gosh, that's so beautiful. That felt so beautiful. It did. It just felt like here was a person who was going through his own issues, and yet he still was, he still saw me. I so I I want to talk about that a little bit, if I can. Yeah, go ahead. Yes. There might be so many people out there right now who are hurting, who are going through something, who are in big trouble, and they feel that sense of being a burden. They feel that sense of like, gosh, you know, why is life manifesting this particular way? It just doesn't fear, right? But then what if it is true? What if each of us go through what we go through, but in essence, we're giving ourselves the opportunity to help like the other person in our lives, whether they like it or not, you're giving them the opportunity to show up in a beautiful way. And it does polish their soul rather than take away from them. I mean, wouldn't that be just like the most beautiful thing in the whole world?

SPEAKER_00 6:25

It is, and I don't really think that we know what our purpose is in another relationship. And you know, I mean, I think that uh we can join in other relationships and they absolutely be beautiful, but we can be completely different, right? Completely.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

And I think that it's funny that you were saying, you know, you guys, you just kept passing each other, you just kept missing, you know, but then there you were. And I always have this saying, you know, about being right on time. And I think you guys were just right on time.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

We were right on time, absolutely. And I think that, you know, I one of the when I first met him, he couldn't get near anybody who had any kind of illness or any kind of anything. It was something that he really like, you know, kind of moved away from.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Huh.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

But then in our journey, he became the person that would, like, when my dad was going through his passing, he massaged his feet. You know, here's this it's like you see, you see so many magical things after 33 years of uh somebody changing and morphing and and becoming like this amazing creature. And it's like, gosh, you know, is it like, is it really a setup where we're that way? But one of the most exciting things, or maybe not ex, yeah, kind of exciting, is uh when he retired, we decided to get in a car and travel around the country for the rest of our lives. We put four suitcases and four suitcases into a car and off we went, not even knowing where we were going or how oh my gosh, that's so cool. I know it was so cool, and so um we like first we we ended up in Santa Fe, and in Santa Fe, we would go under the stars and we'd look at the stars, and it was so interesting because you realize, you know, we're this small, we're this little, we're just like teensy, and there's a big universe out there, and you know, when you're traveling and you're going from place to place to place, yeah, nobody asks you, what do you do? You know, they don't they sometimes don't even ask your name, you're just smiling at people. It's almost like you become one all of a sudden. And it's just like such an absolutely gorgeous, gorgeous thing. You know, I saw that that he he he changed so much that he became like a hero, like a hero. And I guess one of the reasons I want to share that is because let's say that somebody is with somebody right now, you know, with the players. And there's and they're kind of like, oh gosh, you know, in the beginning it's not so great. Sometimes the ending can be so much more powerful because, in the very end, what I watched David be able to do was beyond belief. And I do want to talk about his hospice experience because it was pretty powerful.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Um, I watched him for five years just, you know, really struggle, really, really struggle as you know, he went through um uh that whole situation. But in the end, he had such a belief in God. It was uncanny. I've never seen anything like like when I met him, he was not spiritual, he was human, he was a lawyer, he was not into that stuff at all. In the end, he was like into the whole Holy Spirit, he was into believing, and he really held the hand of that. But here's here's I guess the story that I want to tell that I think that's really, really important. Okay, and that is is that um uh and it's a little it's a little triggering, but there's a reason that I want to, you know, I definitely want to share it. He had such belief, and the first hospice worker who came into our home wasn't that great and kind of left kind of left him in a position when I checked in the middle of the night that wasn't so great. And so, you know, he left, got new people, and then the new people, everybody's saying, be quiet. He's going through transition, so just everybody be very, very, very, very quiet. And I'm like, no, that's not how this happens. It needs to be loud and alive. As long as he's here, let's make it allowed and live. And so, um, but all the people could only see him. He looked like, you know, they had given him so much morphine, he looked like he was not even there anymore. As it turned out, um, in the middle of the night, I come out again, and he loves Bobby Dillon, like loves Bobby Dylan. Okay. So so loving and kind. And he was like taking his leg and moving it up and down and making sure that he was okay. And then after all that transpired, um uh we started having a Bobby Dylan concert. And once you know that that worker was a Bobby Dylan aficionado, knew about Bobby Dylan. So here we are with this guy who knows everything about Bobby Dylan doing this amazing, amazing thing, right? And so um afterwards, I did an interview with him, and this happened three times. I did an interview with him, and I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, hey, thank you very much. You know, you're you're like amazing. You really brought joy to his life. And then um in the video, and I have the videos, white orbs just go. Oh my goodness. And then when I it happened again with somebody else, another worker, and here's what I learned. Here's the reason that I'm telling that story. Because even when you think that somebody's not there, they are. And not and not only are they there, but all the angels are in the room, and I have absolute positive proof. And I think one of the reasons that I have that proof is because what he was able to do in his life and how he was able to make a difference.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah, I I really believe that they are there until the last breath. And then they're then they're still there. I mean, I I think that you know, they're still present um for however long that they're in that room. I don't know, but I I've heard that. Yes. And and it makes sense to me. And I think that they are very aware if they're able to be aware. I mean, I my my adopted mom, she when she passed away, she was um so drugged and in so much pain. So I'm not really sure how much she could pay attention in her last breaths. But as long as somebody is really calm, I think that they're very aware.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Very. And that's what I wanted to say. And they're not only very aware, but very loving and kind, and just, you know, like like are everywhere in the room. I mean, like I said, those, those, those orbs are just like we're so big and beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

You know, it's so important. I don't think people realize how important the work is of a hospice worker. And, you know, you just don't sit there with them and make sure, you know, like take their vitals and things like that every now and then to see about their decline or where they are. I mean, there's just so much more to it than that. I love that that person met your husband where he was. I mean, that is so important.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Exactly. That was the amazing thing because he didn't, it was such a difference between the two people. It was like night and day where one person was just not available and the other was like literally giving him honor and dignity. But the main thing also is that you know, if those orbs are really there, they're seeing what people do, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, that's the difference between somebody just doing a job and somebody doing it for a purpose.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Exactly. Exactly. And I think that the purpose when you give somebody that kind of honor, that that's like an amazing, amazing thing.

Hospice, Dignity, And Sacred Presence

SPEAKER_00 15:35

You talked about that year of wandering, and I just think that, oh my gosh, what an experience. And I would love to, I've had periods of of my life that we we took the kids um last summer and we were in 16 states, and and that was just a blast. We had so much fun. And you know, we just up and went and did, and you you just and you're right. I mean, we don't know anybody around us, they don't know us. We just did and lived and had fun. We met people, we got to know people from all kinds of walks of life, and it was just a great experience for my kids, especially. I just loved watching them experience in life and meet new people. So, what did um the wandering tell us more about that? How did that experience hold you now in this experience in your life, in this time of your life?

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Yeah, thank you. Well, I think the one it was it was amazing because you know, it was the two of us. It's not like, you know, it's just two people on this journey to see things, find things, be uh be in this uh unbelievable universe. But I think that it makes you realize that all the corporate, all the work that you do, all that other stuff, it doesn't really matter. You become one when you have a job, right? You're you're doing your job and you feel like that is everything, and that is uh, you know, uh your universe. But when you're wandering, Ann, it's sort of like you become, you see what it's like to become one with everything. Does that make sense? And then also when you're with somebody and you're holding their hand, you know, like like I thought my I thought my uh a trail was for me to go from here to Macy's. That's what I thought of trailer. I read that. You wrote that, I saw that. Yeah. I didn't I didn't realize that you can be on a Sedona trail with the red, you know, with the red clay and with everything like so amazing, and you're just looking up and you're seeing the mountains and you're seeing the the blue sky, and it just I I guess the best way to describe it is it absolutely positively feels like you're part of the universe rather than you are the universe, and in that oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Oh my gosh, I've never heard that.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

That's a truth, and in that you you surrender or you don't feel any responsibility, it's just magical. And the things that would happen, like we'd be going down Sedon Sedona, and then all of a sudden we'd hear like a flautist playing on the mountaintop. And it's like, how can that be? How can there be like you know, this wonderful flautist playing, you know, amazing stuff uh out there it out of nowhere? And uh, you know, just to see meet people and see them from a different vantage point because you're not working with them, and so the connection is very, very different, right? It's very, very like a very different thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Yeah, I mean it's it's broadening our focus, I think, when we're doing something like that, you know. I mean, it's opening yourself up in ways that you don't normally open yourself up. Yeah, so yeah, I absolutely love that. I do want to talk about your song, Cosmic Hug. I did listen to it on Spotify. Um, can you talk about the lyrics? And I really did want to know if that was you singing.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

No, it wasn't me singing. I wish that I was that good. But uh, right after David passed, five songs came uh through me. And this is one song that you can absolutely play. And, you know, like if you want to put it somewhere in here, um, but basically the whole idea was um that, you know, you're devastated. You feel like your life is over and things are really, really not moving forward in the way that you would want to. And um, the cosmic hug aspect was like he transcended for after he passed miracle after miracle. After a miracle happened, he told me he was a dolphin. He told me to look for dolphins. And so everywhere I went, there were just like dolphins here, dolphins there. It was just almost, it was absolutely incredible. Really, really incredible. So I wanted to convey from my heart what it felt like when you've got on one hand the devastation of feeling so alone. And then on the other hand, you feel like there is like a cosmic hug. The person is still there. They're not gone. They're still one way or another.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

My dad died when I was 11. And I wished I would have understood that at that age. You know, I mean, I really didn't learn it until much older. So I felt that loss so much heavier when I was younger. But I've realized over time that you can still have that a relationship with that person. It's just different.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yes. Yeah, it's just different. Somebody told me, and I love this, they said, when somebody passes away, like she was explaining to me that she wasn't close to one of her parents. And she was like, But you know what? When somebody passes away, there's no personality there. It's just the soul. So when there's just the soul, you can actually be closer to that person in a weird kind of backwards way, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah, that is interesting. I do believe that grief and joy can coexist. And uh, we talk about it often on the podcast, and they do sit together, like a teeter-totter always capable of tipping either way. I think you said that. Yeah, you just marked your wedding anniversary, and you just moved through the first holiday season without your soulmate, and you mentioned something so honest that part of you wants to hide because other people's laughter reminds you of moments lost. I wanted to talk about that because I so relate to that. You do? Oh my gosh, yes. I mean, I can remember if it's I I've had so much loss in my life, and sadly, I think it has really made me who I am, and it gives me purpose. Oftentimes, I think that that's where we find our creative side and where we find where our purpose is and how to help others. And I think that might sound strange to some people, but the loss of my dad at such a young age and my sister being given into the system shortly after he was after he passed, um, it drove me here. It really did. I believe that it drove me to where I am. I think the things that could have been are the things that can hurt the most. You know, my dad's a great way to put it.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

That is such a great way to put it.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah, my dad didn't get to walk me down the aisle, and I've been to enough weddings and the father-daughter dances to feel that loss that was instead of what could have been. And it's the kind of loss where it's hard to look at social media even because you know, you see others' happiness and you want to just be happy for them, but at the same time, it can you feel the pain. And so you don't want to look. And I think that that's okay.

Grief And The Year Of Firsts

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. I do think that I I think it could be human, you know, it can be very, very human because 100%. For me, you know, I was I was doing paisley with everything I had, and it was like absolutely amazing. And then, you know, our anniversary came and Christmas and all this stuff, and I feel like I fell in the quicksand, you know. I feel like, and I'm giving myself the grace and the time to just say, that's okay, you know, whatever happens, that's okay. You don't have to uh see beyond what you can do at that particular time. So, you know, there's a part of me that's like after five years of going through a journey with somebody where you know it's operation after operation after operation, it's kind of like you want to get to the good, the good part, but I guess that's not how life works, you know. Sometimes, you know, because he turned out to be my everything. He turned out to be like the best soulmate. I mean, the way that he was able to manifest and change was like remarkable, absolutely remarkable.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

So that's just so beautiful, but there's nothing wrong with giving yourself a chance to breathe time. Right. I think that that's completely normal.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Yeah. I think so too. And I think, you know, and I'm holding hands with anybody and everybody that's going through anything like that too.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Because a blessing, yeah. Isn't that to be able to sit with somebody else that's feeling pain too? One of the best advice that I was ever given. And I was in my twenties and I was, I don't know, I guess I don't like that say statement young and dumb, but I was. You know, I mean, I was really in my pain and feeling bad for myself and on and on and drinking a lot and a lot of bad choices. And somebody said, you know, go help somebody else. It was the best advice ever.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

I love that. I love that. I love that yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

It really does help us get outside of ourselves. And I have spent the rest of my life helping other people, and I'm so glad that somebody kind of kicked me out of it, you know. It was good.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Yeah, that that's a be I I guess that's the most beautiful thing that you can do, and thank you for bringing that up for me, you know? Because one person is enough, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:49

You know, people like I said earlier about right on time, I have had the right people at the right time at times in my life.

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Yeah. That just kind of, you know, gets us to that next step.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yes. I understand. That's so beautiful. What else were you told to do?

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Oh, you mean outside of that?

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah, or was that enough?

SPEAKER_00 26:11

That was that was enough. Uh to tell you the truth, I mean, that was decades ago, and I still remember it. It still sticks in my mind. That's how much it meant to me. I don't know. It must have been like a message from God. Um, like it was a core memory. It went right to who I was as a person, and I went, yeah. I'm not gonna say I I was done with my stupidness. I hate that word. I'll change that. I um don't want to say that I was done with messing up a lot because I wasn't, you know, I was in my 20s and I didn't have a lot of guidance. So um I did still make a lot of mistakes, and I was still out there drinking and doing all the wrong things. But uh one day I woke up and I was tired of being tired, and I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, I guess you could say. And uh that was it. I said, I'm done. I'm not living like this anymore, and I didn't. I just changed.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Well, what else did you do to change? Like, you know, it just changed because you just made a decision. Was it just a decision?

SPEAKER_00 27:24

It was a decision.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

That was it.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

I was just tired of it. I was making all the wrong choices. I was living in ways that even I wouldn't have made choice, you know, wouldn't want somebody else to live like. And I just said, you know, this is it. I'm not going to live like this anymore. And I chose. Um, and I and it wasn't a decision that I had to constantly make and revisit, you know, it was something that I just I was done. I I was ready to move on.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Wow. That is so, you know. But look at what you've been able to accomplish and how many people's lays you're touching. Oh my gosh. So from that, to to help people, you're not only helping your family, but you're helping so many others by, you know, having the podcast and really making a difference in every which way that you can. That's like amazing, Ann.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

I mean, I said that from the day, and this is really personal, and it's in my book too. I'm writing a book, but it's one of those things where the day that my voice was taken away from me when I was a child, you know, don't tell. You're not allowed to talk about this. Plus, I was autistic and I had a lot of problems and different things from things that had happened in my life. And so um, my mom had said, you know, you're not allowed to tell that my sister was being given away. You're not allowed to do this or this or whatever. And after my sister was gone, and you know, I just swore to myself that I was going to eventually make a difference. I just, I knew that I was. And I um am very thankful for this platform and for any way that I get to speak because I feel like I'm speaking for my sister too. You know, I feel like I'm speaking up and I'm using my voice in ways that I wasn't able to when I was younger. So yeah. I mean, isn't that the way it is though, that we take the things our pains and hurts? And, you know, that's what I why I always say on the pa on the podcast, there's purpose in the pain. There's purpose in it. And if we can tap into that and use that to help other people, I mean, that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah, that is what it's all about. What a beautiful thing. What a really, really beautiful thing.

Helping Others And Choosing Change

SPEAKER_00 29:50

You know, I have um my kids, and you know um, that they're special needs, and it causes me to see other families like what we were talking about earlier about uh wanting to not really face um and look at happy families, you know, it can be hard at times, but um I know a lot of people who have kids in typical sports and things like that, and I'm like, oh yeah, I wish that my kids could do that. And I get those thoughts and feelings every now and then. But as much as I feel that, um, they're on a special Olympics team, and I am so proud of them.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Oh gosh, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Yeah, I am so proud of them as I watch them wheel. My kids are the first ones out there getting the kids on the wheelchairs, running them to bases and things like that, and kids with uh significant special needs and meeting them where they are. And I see my kids being able to do things that I see a lot of kids their age not be able to do who are typical. And I just smile because my proud is different. You know, they're not hitting home runs on a typical team, but in many ways, um, they're hitting home runs in life, you know, and I'm just so proud of them that they can meet people where they are. And I do think that their loss and trauma and differences that they had when they were younger, even though they're still young, um, it brought them to an understanding about people and a maturity that you know they might not have had. So I think um that they're doing what they've been called to do, and that's uh that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

I love that title. Um, My Proud is different. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Your next book that you write, you know. It's not even kidding. That's like genius, because that is so true. I guess, you know, it is true.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

It is. Yeah. I mean, really, we so many times we get proud of that metal or that a, but the things that get missed are sometimes the things that are not, you know, they're kind of looked over, and they're actually the most important thing. And it's being kind, it's being loving, it's meeting people where they are, it's recognizing people's pain. You know, I would rather my kids be able to do things like that than say, look what I want. Look at this metal, you know. I'm not dismissing those things. Those things are important and they're fun. Um, and they do teach you something too. But I think that those other things are very important.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Yeah, they uh give me a couple examples. I'm just curious. I mean, it's I think it's such a wonderful, a wonderful topic. I really, really do.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

My one son, he has um, he's 12 and he has De George syndrome, and he's it's it's a genetic disease where he has uh it's a deleted chromosome. He doesn't have the 20-second chromosome. So it's the opposite of Down syndrome.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

So um, and he does have some facial features. He has a you can tell that he's a little different, but um, he's so handsome and he he he doesn't even think about that kind of stuff. But uh he is just a beautiful soul. And he is also has all a lot of other things. He's autistic and ADHD and he has an IQ of 59 and uh fetal alcohol syndrome. I mean, I he was dealt a rough road. But with that said, um he's the first person to say, hey, are you okay? Or uh we were at a an amusement park one time and this man was having a difficult time. He had differences. You could you could tell that he had disabilities. And my son went over to him and grabbed his hand and walked with him all the way off of the ride. Didn't even never met him before or anything. He just saw that he needed help and he did it. So, yeah, that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Oh wow. Oh my god, that's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Isn't that beautiful?

SPEAKER_01 34:09

That is the most beautiful thing that I've ever heard. I think that you're absolutely correct. They're tuned in, you know. Sometimes you think they're angels that just can't, you know, can't communicate quite well. So they're taking in all of the languaging of the world. How lucky he is to have you as his mom.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Well, I try to get them, I believe in exposure, you know. I want them to experience life. And and even their teachers say that my kids are doing so well in school because not of their IQs or anything, but because of their exposure to things. And they are aware. They've been there, they've seen it, they've been all over the country, and so they can talk about it because they really have been there. And I think that that's so important.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

That's yeah, that's like that is so important when you put it that way. But man oh man, to have somebody just like, you know, really get that that person was in trouble and for him to be the one to hold. That's pretty freaking incredible. It really is.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

My my nine-year-old went up to uh we we go to New York. I love New York, and he always goes up to people who are homeless, um, and he starts conversations with them. He makes sure he talks to them. And he has said to them, I will be back. I'm gonna get you something to eat.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

His heart is just so big. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:43

Oh my gosh, he and that's it.

Parenting, Special Needs, And Redefining Proud

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Yeah, it makes me want to cry just even thinking about it because he's just got such a special heart. And he's the one that um he's not in school right now because he gets too sensory, overloaded, and he gets so upset so quickly. And so I keep him home. But he absolutely will go up to the kids at school when he was there. He would he all of his friends had special needs, and it was because he reached out to them. Yeah, and those are the ones that he misses. So yeah, I'm really proud of him. I think he'll go into that. He could go into anything, but I because he really is gifted, but I think that he might want to go into that where he's helping people.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

It looks like it sounds like he's already helping people, so it's like a natural thing. He must be so proud. That's like, you know, that's really, really incredible. Because I guess I guess the commonality is that, you know, when David was going through his surgeries one after the other, after the other, after the other, you know, lose your uh you lose your capabilities, you lose your lawyerness, you lose your humanity to a certain extent. You're just you know fragile. And it's like really an honor to it's sometimes it feels so hard, but there's so many also gifts of you know who that person is or what they do. Pretty incredible. And with your kids, you know, for them to be able to come from where they came from and be able to love as uh incredibly as that they do, that's just a miracle.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

I think that we all instinctively, hopefully, instinctively have that love within us. Yes, and it's just being able to allow it to come out and have the freedom to feel that you can. And I think that that's the gift that I've given my kids. So yeah. I do want to talk um about firsts. Um, you're in a year of firsts and you are learning a lot, I'm sure. And how you're learning to let joy exist without feeling like it's a betrayal of love. How did how is that?

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Well, if I'm honest, hand on heart, I was joyful when he first passed because I feel as though, you know, I got dolphins all the time. I felt him, it was amazing, it was tremendous. And then uh when I fell into the season, you know, it's like uh joy can be the simplest thing in the whole world. It went from big, like gigantic, let's go for the musical, let's do this, to gosh, my light looks really pretty. Um, it's it's kind of like gone to that, it's gone that far down. Um so I think, you know, I didn't anticipate this. I thought I had pre-grieved, I thought I had done a good job, but obviously I have not.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

And you can pre-grieve as much as you can. You can try to prepare yourself for the loss as much as you can. But when the loss actually happens, it really is different.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

It is so different, you know. And I thought that I could, I I guess he was my everything. He was really, really, really my everything. The best man I've ever met in my entire life. And, you know, uh I guess it's it's like now it's real. It's like, oh my god, oh my god, how do I get through from day to day? What do I do? You know? Um, I have brain fog that I didn't have. I have things that, you know, uh uh physical pain that's off the charts again, and it's like, you know, I know that's probably part of the grieving aspect.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

That mind body.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Yeah, body, and there's nothing I can do but just kind of go into it, I guess, and just hope for the best.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's also sometimes that guilt that sometimes we experience um uh and uh maybe it's survivor's guilt, I'm not really sure, of being able to continue on. Um And be who we were without them. And I think it's very difficult to do that at times. With any it could be a child or a sibling or whomever. I mean, we're enjoying while they are no longer with us or if they are hurting. And it's a constant giving permission to ourselves, I think.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Yeah, I think so too. I think that that really is, you know, that really makes a difference too in a big, gigantic way. Um, you know, because I feel them so much. I do feel like he would just want me happy. Um I guess it's just it's just the it's just the missing, the loss, you know, it's just like when it feels like it's part of you and it becomes like way over the top.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Well, in loss when we are stuck in the middle of it. And even as the self-worth ambassador as you are, you know, it's profound to redefine and become after life's tragedies. And when life strips everything familiar away, we're often less left asking, you know, who am I? Who am I without you? Who am I without the roles and the routines and with the person that I love the most? And it truly is a time of taking a breath, like I said to you. And there's nothing wrong with that. Taking time to get to know yourself again in a different space. How has grief shaped your understanding of worth? And not the worth tied to productivity, but worth rooted in simply being.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

That's a great, great, great question. I guess I'm really practicing self-love the best that I can. You know, because I think that's where the worth will come in. Because there's nothing grandiose. I mean, you know, it's like really going inside and saying, you know, what am I worth? Who am I? That kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

It's a refine our we have to redefine ourselves, I guess. It's, you know, coming back to who we are, because, you know, like when we're in life and we're doing things with either our partner or our kids or whatever, and then all of a sudden it's like, it's us. You know, and it's a refining, we have to find ourselves again. Self-worth is so important to your mission. What brought you to that in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Being on my knees and realizing that self-esteem is very, very different than self-worth. Self-esteem is, I did this thing. Are you proud of me? Is it good? You know, that kind of stuff. It's like, oh, look at what I was able to do. Self-worth is you have to define it. You have to be the one.

Joy Without Betrayal And Self-Permission

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I really love that. Well, Paisley, it's such a huge part of your mission. And Paisley, the musical, and the beautiful book, Paisley's uh Last Quill, carries so much purpose and hope. Watching the story grow into a musical, I'm sure, feels almost sacred. And the music itself is very moving. Paisley is a porcupine with a dream, and she loves fashion. And because she's a porcupine, of course, she uses what she has, her quills, like pins, helping the queen of fashion, Zavanna. I mean, Zavanna. But as the story unfolds, Paisley gives more and more of her quills away and her power, her voice, her worth in a way that she fills the cracks in others with pieces of herself. And Paisley becomes a pleaser. She adapts, she does everything that she can to fit in, even when it costs her something essential. And there's quite a quiet selling of self that happens there. And it feels painfully familiar for so many of us. It made me think of something that I heard at a woman's conference when Patsy Claremont spoke about her story of cracked pots and the idea that it's through the broken places that the light shines and where beauty is finally revealed. And I thought that about Paisley. So when you think, when you sit with the music of Paisley, where does it take you in your mind, your soul, your dreams, and even in your grief? Because I imagine that in that in this season of your life also that Paisley keeps evolving.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Yes, she does. She absolutely does. The music, the storytelling, I mean, it's so spectacular. You know, it's like so sad in a way that I've had to put it down because it's like brilliance and it's happy and it's like what, but well, it's the it has an arc of a story. It talks about, you know, her mom begging her and saying, please, because this is, you know, a different story, the musical aspect. And her mom is saying, please don't give away your quills, they're they're there to protect yourself. And and she wants to put flowers on them and become a designer and do all these things. And so the first song is just the mom and Paisley kind of like looking at their different vantage points and why each is important. And the next one is with Savana, and she's, you know, got attitude, and she's like, I don't do feelings, I do fashion. That's essentially what she's talking about. She doesn't care about what the other models feel. She only cares about how things look. That's the only thing that means anything to her. And then the next song is one of the tigers who she wants to, you know, she's she has to wear all these amazing outfits, amazing outfits, couture. But the only problem is she wants to be a rocker. So it's a rock song and it's got attitude, and it's like, let me roar. That's the name of that one. And then the next one is where Paisley is uh told by all the other porcupines, don't give your quills away, don't do it. We did it. You know, we're practically here, and look what's happened to us. And so um, you know, that's a very that's one of those songs that's like, oh, it's gripping and amazing. And then the the last song that I did, five songs, is what I've created so far, is called uh No One Stood, and is where um uh Paisley did so much to help everybody else, but nobody was there for her. She's all alone, and so it's like so the arc, what you were asking, it's the arc of all of our stories, it's the arc of what we go through and and how we go through it. And hopefully it will just touch people. People who listen to the music, they cry. They cry, you know, because they're really moved by it.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

So many of our lives, yeah. We understand it. It takes us to a place. Uh, what makes Paisley's story so fascinating is uh how she gives more and more of herself away to others, like you were saying. And yet, at its core, this is really a story about reclaiming your power after surviving a cutthroat world that slow that depletes us. And I think that that theme translates in just about every industry, you know, any space, any life where people feel drained, overlooked, or used up. And we all know what it's like to live in systems that take more than they give. And Paisley's world, one voice, the dominant, is it's Zavanna. Did I say it wrong, Zavanna?

SPEAKER_03 47:45

Zavanna's Zavanna.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

Zavanna, sorry, you I think of Savannah Guthrie, so that's where it's spelled almost the same. It is so onna rules, of course, her name would be Zavanna, rules with obsession, perfectionism, and demands for obedience. And in that kind of environment, it's easy to lose yourself. It's it's easy to shrink, to confuse approval with worth. And this story becomes about what it costs to lose your power and what it takes to fight your way back to it. Because reclaiming your calling, reclaiming who you are, takes enormous courage.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

It takes all the courage in the world.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it does. And little by little.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

And little by little. Because she in her in the story, she's down to one last quilt. Well, that makes all the difference in the world. Because she figures out a way with a friend to kind of keep on moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

Well, and like you were just saying, and before we even realize it, there's nothing left.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

And we allow the Zavanas in our lives to slowly rob us of who we are. And sometimes it isn't even a person. You know, it can be grief.

SPEAKER_03 49:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

It could be any Zavana could come in any any kind of form. Loss, tragedy.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

It could even be ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Because we could fight ourselves on that. That moment when you wake up and realize that you're trying to find your way back to yourself, is really what it's about. And this story could be for caregivers or for people who have been hurt by others, for those who are being bullied, for the ones who help uh everyone else achieve their dreams while quietly setting their own aside. And I've done that. I mean, I was always, because of my disabilities, I was always the best sidekick, you know? I I was always, you know, I'll help your dreams come true. But um, and then all of a sudden I I started doing my own stuff. And even when I was doing something beautiful or successful, I would look down, hoping that no one would notice. Isn't it remarkable what we go through just to find ourselves again?

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Yeah, it is remarkable. But look at how much you found of yourself. It's brilliant. It is brilliant. So I guess at the end of the day, that's really what matters.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

And for you, I mean, your books are just so they you know what? They're not really children's books. And I love children's books. I mean, I I go to the children's books section when we and and it has nothing to do with my kids. I mean, I really do enjoy sitting down and picking up, and it's the pictures, of course, but it's the storytelling. They get back to what's really important, I think.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

So, I mean, your your book is kind of, I guess you could say, a children's book, but I I think it's so much more than that.

Self-Worth vs Self-Esteem

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Thank you. Thank you, Ian. I so appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

So, like you said, Paisley was down to one quill, and I think all of us can relate to that. What does Paisley teach us about worth? What lessons do you want people to really hear today about starting over and reclaiming yourself?

SPEAKER_01 51:04

When you believe in yourself, anything isn't po anything is possible. Um, when she's down to the last quill, she feels like, you know, I, you know, she even saying like I have one quill left, nothing. Feels like nothing. But when she uses it for in a different way than she had ever used it before, a whole universe opens up to her. So I guess no matter what anybody's going through, there's still the possibility of something different. Um, you know, right around the corner, even if you're down to your last. I remember coming to somebody one time and saying, you know, but I only have a uh I only have like an ember left. And they said, Yeah, but if you blow on an ember, it can gosh, that's so beautiful. Isn't that beautiful? I love that. I know. I've been told so many really, really cool things. Really cool things.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

See, they're such great messages that you can just hold on to, and even if it's just for a few seconds, you know, to get you to the next second, to get you to the next second. I mean, those, it's they're oh, words are so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

Words are everything they they can be the thing. I mean, you know, obviously they're they're uh translation of our heart. We're saying words that or from our mind or from our stomach and brain or whatever. But it's our communication system of the heart, essentially. And so if somebody says the right things at precisely the right time, that means everything.

Inside Paisley The Musical

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Yeah, oh my gosh, absolutely. Um, as I told that story earlier, yes. There's a question that keeps coming up for me as I sit with Paisley story, and in this, um, it's this what happens when we confuse belonging with self-erasure? Because belonging is supposed to mean that I'm welcome as I am, but self-erasure is when we slowly become whatever we think that we need to be so we don't get rejected. And when we confuse the two, we start trading authenticity for approval and we shrink ourselves to fit into rooms that we may never even belong in. We stop living and we start performing, and over time we forget who we were before we started even editing ourselves. So this shows up so often for caregivers, for people who've been hurt, for those of us who leaned early on, who learned early on that being useful, being easy, or being quiet felt safer than being real. And we call survival success and exhaustion loyalty. And in Paisley's story, it's that moment where giving away your quills feels like connection until you realize that you've given away so much of yourself that you don't recognize who you are anymore. So when reading your book, I find myself asking, where did I mistake being needed for being valued? Where did I confuse fitting in with true belonging? And what would it look like to belong without disappearing?

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Wow, that is huge. That is like that's that's uh command performance right there. Um, and I think that you said it so eloquently, and so eloquently. I think that what you just said is absolutely brilliant, and I think so many of us do it because one of the basic things about Paisley is she so desperately wants to belong. We all want to belong. We're to do almost anything to belong. And we are willing to erase ourselves to be able to, you know, fit in or do whatever it is so that we get love. You know, some of us take breadcrumbs rather than waiting for somebody who can be fully there with us and for us. And like, you know, really, really a sad thing. If you if you learn to really love yourself, you won't be looking for somebody else to um fill in the areas where you feel lonely because you've taken care of it. And yet that's something very um, it it's something that we don't really know how to do. I I don't ever remember going to school and having somebody teach us how to love ourselves, even when things get really cruddy or bad. And so, you know, because we need each other so much. I mean, like there's some places when somebody passes away, there's some villages where the villagers, you know, like everybody comes and they support that person. It's just like such a different, uh different climate that we're in in this particular world.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

And and then it's gotten worse if if worse is the right word um over the years, because I remember when my um dad passed away, we lived on a street where everybody supported everybody. It was it was a really wonderful neighborhood. But um nowadays, you know, I I just don't see that no it's the opposite. Yeah, it really is. And and I think social media has a lot to do with that. I think that that's really played in, unfortunately. Social media, well, social media is a great thing, but yet it has really robbed us of connection. I mean, we think we're more connected, but we're less connected.

unknown 56:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

Because, you know, we we just do um short texts and um we we try to have as many friends as we can on Facebook or whatever, but really, you know, how connected are we really to them? How many real conversations do we really have with people? We really don't. And even with like our kids, you know, they just give us um, you know, text messages and stuff like that instead of phone calls. I mean, it's it's different.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

It is very, very different. Very different. It's so well put.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

Yeah, I do know that there's a lot of good to social media, but um, because it connects us. I mean, we connected and we never would have met before if it wasn't for the internet and now the podcasts and all these other really great things that are coming out of it. Um, but I still think that we need to remind ourselves that connection and conversations, real conversations, are still are very important.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Yeah, they're essential.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

A knock on the door. Yeah. Here's here's a meal, you know, that kind of stuff. It it really does make a difference. It's a d it's a much different kind of connection. It you know, it it takes real courage to follow your calling. And I think that that's what both of us are trying to do. Um, you've you've talked about that hollowness, the empty space where our spirit is supposed to be flowing. And I appreciate that you don't sugarcoat it when you say fear shouts, because it does, because when we're living into who we're meant to be, we know it. And yet we spend so much time trying to convince everyone else. I mean, isn't that interesting? We know it. Yeah, but we spend so much time trying to convince everybody else. This is our calling. That voice creeps in, you know, is it imposter syndrome? Do I really belong? And the honest answer is yes, of course we do. But then the fear stacks on. And what what if people don't like the book? What if people don't like the podcast or the musical, you know, or whatever it is that we poured our entire heart into? What if it fails? Whatever fails means. And the those questions are actually the easier ones that because failure isn't the same as not belonging. And if we believe in what we're doing and we're willing to work at it and grow, I really believe that fear is not a stop sign, it's information, and that's all it is.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

That is a fear is a stop sign. Ooh, that is juicy right there. I love that. That's true. It's a stop sign that we can stop at and move forward, right? Yeah. Well, it's not a stop sign. But it can be, but it can feel like that. It can feel like that. And it's but to actually visualize it as a stop sign is helpful in a way. Because it's like, ah, that's fear. Now I can go beyond it. You know, when the light turns green, when I get the courage, I can go beyond that. How cool is that?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:12

Yeah, because I've just had to realize that fear is just it's just loud, but it's not a profit.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:21

It doesn't tell me what my future is gonna hold or, you know, how how well I can uh perform what I'm I my calling is, what I feel it is, and I just need to go through it and get to the other side. That's hard though.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:35

It's very hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

The thing that I think that might be harder, you know, it is for me, and that's when we are doing really well. And when things are growing and things are going well and people are noticing, the question becomes, what if I'm seen? What if I'm seen? And I think I know, but sometimes that can be a really scary place.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

Is it at all for you?

Reclaiming Power After Self-Erasure

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

Um, usually no, but right now, yes. Because I'm not, you know, uh where I was and where I am now are two different things. You know, I'm in the the midst of grief, and grief does not look pretty. So in our society, it's not something that you really talk about, show up. You know, it's kind of like you go with all the other people who have grief. You don't go for the you don't go with the happy people because, you know, they're saying, you know, you're quiet or you're this or you're that, and it's true. It's absolutely the truth. But I don't know what else to do with that under those circumstances.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

So do you do you know um other people that have experienced loss? You said that you were sitting alongside some people.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

Are you a different everybody, you know, everybody experiences in a different way depending on where they are or what's happening? It's like a whole different thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

Mm-hmm. And and that's why I always say, you know, I'm I I guess I'm it's good that we have the stages of grief, but they don't make sense and they are all over the place, and we never experience uh it the same way. Nobody does, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

Yeah, it's so true.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

No, it's different, you know. One thing that I'm learning is it's different from I I've met people who have been in grief for three years, ten years, they're really hurting. And then, you know, I'm kind of like three or four months out. So it depends on it. I don't think that there's any right or wrong in this. Whatever it is, I guess it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

I'm glad that that's where you are. Because I think really in everything that we go through in life, that's the best place to be. Yes. That really is. I mean, not what somebody else thinks that we should be doing, no other people's definitions of where we should be, but it's what you it's like what you have, and I really love this. I went on to your website, um Paisleyfashionforce.com, and uh I loved this. The moment I stopped waiting to be chosen and chose myself, I mean, I read that quite a few times and wrote it down, and I was like, oh my gosh. I stopped waiting to be chosen and I chose myself. I mean, I think that we all have to forge our own path, of course, and become what we believe we were brought here to be. I mean, and not wait for anyone else to choose us. And we have to believe in ourselves before anyone else does.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

I think that that's just so important. What an important message. You have such great messages on your website.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:57

Thank you. I so appreciate that, Ann. It means the world to me. Yeah, I put my heart into everything, you know, and uh if I can touch one life, oh my God, that's amazing. That's the best thing ever.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

We really, no matter what, have to hold on and and do what we feel that we were meant to be. And I believe that your purpose is to be exactly who you are right now in your life. And that might not really feel like it right now. But if you could talk about your purpose and your mission and everything behind what your projects are about.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:35

Um, just inspire people to keep their power. We give away our power just like Paisley um ended up with one quill and she felt like she had nothing left. That's how we feel, like we have nothing left. And if we know that we matter and that we're important and that kind of stuff, it just it just uh means all the world to know that don't give away your power, keep it, understand that that self-worth or self-love is really the answer. Looking to belong possibly is not. It's not necessarily the right thing to do under um, you know, because if you give yourself away and then you're like, well, who's gonna replenish me? Yeah, not nobody, hardly. So, you know, and if you know, if you live your dream, uh you live your joy, that could mean everything, absolutely everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:36

You've written that gr grief is love fully lived, and you describe loving fully as opening your heart, like is like a parachute. So when grief comes, you feel it all the way, and somehow that fulfilling is what brings healing. And I believe that I say that all the time, you know, about going through, and it reframes grief as not as something broken, but as evidence of love well lived. Can you talk about that and how grief has, as painful as it is, is also proof of depth and connection.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:18

Yes, I think that I think that the more that you love, the more you possibly grieve. It's kind of like talk about that, talk about it be uh teeter-totter. I think that there's a a real truth to that. I think when you care so much, you know, your heart, uh, your heart is so open to it. I mean, there's some people who can stay in joy afterwards. They can just stay in joy because they have that love and they realize that. And there's other people who it's it's like it's it, uh, I guess it's it's like when you when you realize that they're not coming back, you know, that they really are gone. You know, there's so much, you know, I've seen so many people who can just be be in that joy place. Um and I want to be there too.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:07

You will get back there. You will. And again, it's it takes it takes time. There's nothing wrong with having periods where we hurt, and we need to, we need to sit in that sometimes. Yes. And that's totally fine. I do want to talk about your other books because I love your other books. The luckiest penny is such a beautiful embrace of our differences and that journey towards unconditional love. Again, it brings us back to questioning our worth and and what truly matters. And then there's if only, which feels especially poignant in this season of your life, because it speaks to broken hearts, unexpected tragedy, and the daily struggles that can leave us feeling overwhelmed and without hope. Even, I mean, every single one of your books and your mission with the musical meets people exactly where they are hurting. And you reach into those deep places and help them find their way back, reminding them that they still have purpose. And you are doing that even with your own pain. You're not asking people not to hurt, but you are meeting them right inside it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

Yeah. I think well, I think that that each of the books that I wrote, there was a reason for it. With the luckiest penny, it was all about self-worth because if a penny, it's all about the idea of a penny could be worth a million dollars, how much are you worth? If one penny that you would overlook could be worth that much, how much are you worth? And then if uh with if only it's about a snowflake who's taking her leap of faith, but she literally goes with faith. And it's scary because what happens to snowflakes? We know what happens to snowflakes. They don't. And they but they go through so much. Like one of the things that I actually found out when I was doing the book, and this is crazy, is that um uh when snowflakes fall, truth. That's when they expand.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:11

Really?

Fear, Calling, And Being Seen

SPEAKER_01 1:09:11

Yeah. It's the air, you know, it's like a seedling and it goes like this and then it shoots out. So it's in the falling that they become the magnificence. But how whole how long do they hold that magnificence? And like what is their experience coming down? Freedom. But a snowflake has no control. A snowflake is gonna fall, whether they like it or not, where they go. They don't get to pick. Maybe you know, the wind takes them. So that's why I had faith go along with Snowflake telling her why all the things that she dreamed of, you know, might be a better option for her, even to the point where she does melt.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:50

I want to add that um basically life is a constant rewrite. We're constantly rewriting our story. And sometimes the rewrite becomes the most honest chapter of all.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:07

I love that. I think that's gonna happen for me. Absolutely, not even in doubt.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:12

I believe that. So you wrote the words to all who are hurting, my heart is in your pocket. I want to say the same to our listeners today, because if you are smiling while breaking inside, you're not alone. And if you're grieving and still laughing, you're not doing it wrong. If you've given away your quills and you feel like you have nothing left, Paisley's story is for you. Quills Up is not about fighting the world. It's about remembering who you are, it's about reclaiming your worth, it's about choosing to create what is flowing through you, even in the presence of fear and loss. How can people get a hold of you? How can they reach you? How can they get see all of your projects?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

Um, the best way is to go to paisley's fashionforest.com. That's the best way to uh read about all of the stuff that I'm doing with the musical. That, you know, I we need to take a little bit of a break, but we're gonna be moving back into it. And the other one is the self-worthinitiative.net. Okay.net. That was more for the kids. So one is for the kids, and one is all about paisley the musical, paisley the book, paisley anything. Those are the two best places to go.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:33

Well, Deborah, I really want to thank you for being on, for reminding us that grief and joy can share the same body and that worth is something that we carry even when everything else is gone. So I really appreciate you. Thank you so much for being on today.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:49

You I appreciate it. And you know, I and you're the best of the best.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

Well, I that really means that means everything. It really does. Thank you for listening and watching as we're uh we're on YouTube and a bunch of radio stations and TV stations out there too. So uh thank you for being a part of Real Talk with Tina and Anne. And as always, there is purpose in the pain and there is hope in the journey, and we will see you next time.