Raising Resilient Kids Begins with Regulated Parents with Clinical Psychologist Dr. Kate Lund

Today we’re talking about something every parent wants for their kids but often struggles to build in the middle of real life—resilience.

We’re joined by clinical psychologist and author Kate Lund, whose work focuses on helping families move away from perfection and toward emotional strength that actually lasts. Her books Bounce: Help Your Child Build Resilience and Thrive in School, Sports, and Life and Step Away: The Keys to Resilient Parenting explore how small shifts in parenting can make a big difference in how kids learn to handle stress, setbacks, and challenges.

In this conversation, we talk about Dr. Lund’s own journey from childhood medical trauma to becoming a resilience expert, why “stepping back” as parents doesn’t mean disengaging, and how connection—not control—helps kids navigate big emotions.

We also dive into practical tools for regulating our nervous systems, supporting kids with learning differences, handling meltdowns, and building homes where effort is celebrated and mistakes are part of growing.

If you’ve ever wondered how to raise resilient kids without burning yourself out as a parent, this conversation is for you.

Dr. Kate Lund's website is Katelundspeaks.com 

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome back to Real Talk with Tina and Ann. Today we're diving into something every parent talks about, worries about, and hopes for resilience. Our guest today is clinical psychologist, speaker, and author Dr. Kate Lund, whose work focuses on helping families build emotional strength in a world that often feels overwhelming. With training from three Harvard-affiliated hospitals and decades of clinical experience, she has dedicated her career to understanding what helps people bounce back from stress, setbacks, and life's unexpected challenges. She's also the author of Bounce and Step Away, two books that help parents move beyond pressure and perfection, and instead focus on raising kids who can navigate real life with confidence, emotional awareness, and grit. In this conversation, we explore what resilience actually looks like in everyday parenting, why stepping back can sometimes be the most powerful thing a parent can do, and how we can help our kids grow stronger without feeling like we have to be perfect ourselves. So settle in because this conversation is honest, thoughtful, and full of insights every parent can use. Let's get into it. This is the episode with Dr. Kate Lund. Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne, and I'm so excited for this conversation because your work hits parents right where we live in the messy, the loud, and the overstimulating middle of real life. And what I love is that you don't come with perfection, you come with realness. And your second book, Step Away, The Keys to Resilient Parenting, basically gives parents something that we don't get enough of, a way to breathe without guilt. And you make this point so clear, resilient parenting begins with a regulated parent. And we will talk about your other book, Bounce. You had seven pillars of resilience for kids. I read both, so thank you for writing them. And thank you for being here today.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Well, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

You're a clinical psychologist, a performance coach, a wife, and a mom of twin boys, and you also had a serious medical challenge as a child, including hydrocephalus and multiple surgeries. So resilience isn't just your field, it's part of your story. And what I love is that you've worked with families through medical challenges, kids with school pressure, athletes, parents in burnout, and you've seen resilience from every angle. I actually would like to start with Bounce, if that's okay, because it tells more of your story and who you are and where you've come from. Can you talk about your path from that child with hydrocephalus at age four, shunt surgeries, missing school, tumors, and a very long recovery? Can you talk about what that did to you emotionally and socially and

A Childhood That Built Resilience

SPEAKER_00 3:00

how that brought you to where you are now as a clinical psychologist?

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, because that's really actually where, for real, where the story starts. Um when I was diagnosed with hydrocephalus at four, um, I got really sick, really sort of out of the blue. And it was really hard. My parents didn't know what was happening, the doctors didn't really know what was happening at first because the imaging technology back in the mid-1970s wasn't what it is today. Uh, but fortunately, they did figure out that it was hydrocephalus. I didn't know why I had hydrocephalus when I was four. That didn't happen until I was 18. We figured that out. So I'll talk about that in a second. Right. But early on, you know, the hydrocephalus, the good news is hydrocephalus can be managed with something called a shunt, which circulates the cerebral spinal fluid, which isn't circulating on its own. Bad news is, particularly in childhood, shun break. So lots of time in and out of the hospital, lots of surgery to get new shunts put in, recovery time, coming back to school, looking different, feeling different. I had these giant glasses and this big hockey helmet when I skated with my classmates at recess. And so there was a lot of snickering, a lot of chuckling, a lot of, you know, feeling very different, kind of being set apart. Right. But but within that, I had a lot of support from my family, of parents, of friends, from friends, teachers. And I was able to come to a point where I could focus on with that support what I could do as opposed to what I couldn't do. And that really was huge. That made a lot of difference. And that's everything. That was everything. And, you know, I couldn't do contact sports, I couldn't play hockey like my brother. I was really bummed out. But somebody along the way helped me pivot to this idea of tennis. And I became a pretty good tennis player when I was little. And that carried me all the way through. I actually played in college and everything. And it was a really important piece of my identity and what I could do, and I could do it pretty well. I should note though that I was never the best. So I rarely took home that first place trophy, but I was playing because I loved it. And it it became a really important piece of myself and of my identity. And I really do believe a building block for helping me believe in myself in other areas. So lots of challenge mixed in there, but also some good stuff in terms of the the um foundation for believing in myself and figuring out that all right, not everything's gonna be easy. There's gonna be a lot of hard stuff, but but what can you do and how can that help you move forward?

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yeah, I mean, one of my favorite you've got so many great points in your book, but one was that you focused on what you could do and not what you couldn't do. And I'm autistic and I have other differences. So, you know, I actually had to teach myself how to learn. And I have always been that person to dig deep and figure it out. No matter what, I was going to figure it out. So, what did the adults in your life do that protected your sense of self? And what can parents do today to build that same foundation for their kids?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, and I I think I think it's that whole idea of, I mean, sure, we've got to navigate challenge, we've got to acknowledge challenge, all of that. So that was happening, but at the same time, it was kind of really instilled in me. Okay, so you've got this challenge, but what's possible? How can we help you to focus on your strengths in a way that will help you to move forward through and beyond the challenge to figure out what's possible on the other side of it? And I think that was kind of an overarching thread, a message that was embedded into my life early. And, you know, that's not to negate the challenges because those were very real and they had to be contended with. But that other piece was really, really important.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Well, your main focus in your book centers around resilience. And you say that resilience is the ability to bounce back after a setback and still move forward.

Resilience As A Path To Potential

SPEAKER_00 7:25

And you connect resilience to potential in such an important way. Resilience makes it more likely that a child will realize what's possible for them within their own context. And that is so important within their own context, nobody else's context. So, and we can talk more about that later, but can you talk about the relationship between resilience and potential? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yeah. So our potential is, you know, what we're capable of, the direction that we're moving. And we need to have that resilient foundation built to help us move in the direction of our potential, to help us to harness our strengths and use those strengths in helping us navigate through and beyond challenges. So there's that relationship. Resilience is a catalyst for moving us towards our potential.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Your first book, Bounce, gives the child side of the coin, but it's the resilience toolbox for kids, you know, like for school sports and friendships and life. But your newest release, stepping away, is like the parent foundation. Regulate the parent, create space, respond instead of react, build connection, which is so important. And these two words, step away, can be taken in so many different ways. Parents can hear, what? Wait, you want me to neglect my kid? But what you're saying is it's completely different. What do you say to the parent who feels guilty even hearing those words?

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yeah, that's such a great question, right? Because you hit it right on the head there in terms of what I really mean by that. So the step away piece, it's really about taking the time for ourselves as parents to optimize our own sense of well-being so that we can show up fully for our kids, for our family, families, and across the domains of our lives. So by stepping away to optimize our own sense of well-being, we're really creating the ability, the space to step in more fully.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Yeah, absolutely. And you described the chaos so well in your book. I mean, a baby screaming, the other spitting up, what work

What Step Away Really Means

SPEAKER_00 9:45

emails buzzing, you know, dishes mocking you from the sink. And every parent listening is like, yeah, I mean, I've been there. And you said that you started small. I mean, one apple a day and a walk. You know, I mean, that's such a simple image, but it's so powerful. Why do small changes work when parents feel like they need a complete life overhaul?

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah, and that's that's a really great question because it's true. Like when we want to change, human nature sort of uh challenges us to go from point A to point Z all at once. But that's really not reality. That never happens, right? And I know for me, I whenever I've tried that, I've not succeeded. So I had gotten really sick with like a germ, a childhood germ when uh my boys were little. And it was a nasty germ that really put me out. And I recognized at that point that I had been getting pretty run down. My husband was on the road like six days a week when our boys were infants. And so I did have some support, but I was really like on my own in the trenches with these little guys. And it was it was awesome in many ways, but in many ways it was exhausting and depleting and I don't know, left me open for this germ. So when that was happening, I recognized that I needed to make some changes. But I also recognized I had the perspective to know that I was really too exhausted to make any sweeping changes. And as we know, sweeping changes don't really work anyway. So I decided to experiment with a couple of small, manageable, daily changeslash habits that I could hold myself accountable for. And it was awesome. It was like my first experience kind of really trying that, particularly with infant boys, because I'd never had children before, right? And so it was a catalyst for a really important lesson, as well as a catalyst for improving my health, improving my well-being, and giving me the space and opportunity to show up more fully. So it showed me the power in the small change. And for me, it was the apple and the walk, and really helped to incrementally improve my diet and my level of activity. And it was it was great.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

You have so many great quotes. I mean, I had my book and my pen and I was writing them down, and uh I loved embrace the messiness, and we'll get to my favorite one soon. But another one was you don't need to be a superhero, you just need to be responsive. And that's basically a whole parenting philosophy in two sentences. So talk about responsive parenting, what that looks like when you're exhausted and overstimulated and you have no nothing left.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah, so you just need to do your best in those moments to be present and to be there on an authentic human level for your child without trying to fix or correct or any of that stuff. We want to just be there in that authentic human way. And doing that in a way that meets you where you are in that exhausted state is a really important piece. And keeping in mind that you're doing the best you can. So not beating yourself up for thinking that you need to be doing more or you know, all these things, because exhaustion is real and we have to take that seriously so that we can shift ourselves back onto track.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah, and and balance is so important. And it's really hard for us to find that balance. But you you do talk about balance in your book. What does balance look like for parents that are juggling so much?

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Yeah, exactly. And it looks different for all of us. And, you know, it looks like prioritizing and ultimately doing the best you can and managing your expectations as a parent, knowing that you probably won't get to everything on your list in a given day. And that's okay. And that's okay. And that's okay. And that's a hard thing for lots of us to reconcile when that first starts happening. Because you kind of go into it thinking, okay, you know, I can make this happen and make this happen and make this happen. But really, when you have young children, when you, you know, have all these things happening, all these competing demands in your life, you've got to manage your expectations and recognize on some days, you're probably only going to

Small Habits That Prevent Burnout

SPEAKER_01 14:45

get to one thing on your list, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I love the words in your context, like I said earlier. And I mentioned it earlier because it was, it really resonated with me. You know, people scroll through Facebook and IG and all these things and they compare. And I hate that we compare on our worst days to people's picture perfect days. So, how do you help parents stop comparing their real lives to someone else's highlight real and start honoring their actual context because none of us have the same starting time, the same genetics, the same brain. Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

That is such a great point. And we're all, yeah, we're all coming from very different places. Experiences, dispositions, neurological makeup, like all of it, right? Just everything is just coming together in a different way. So the first piece, you mentioned the highlight reel. The first piece is gently trying to normalize this idea that that's a highlight reel, you know, and what we're seeing oftentimes on Instagram and Facebook and all of these things are the perfect moments, are the are the moments where everything looks great. And with the advent of AI, we don't even know if that's actually reality in the truth. Yeah. So there's that, so there's that piece. But there's also more importantly than that, there's helping folks build awareness of who they really are and what their context really looks like in real life and what they need to be at their best within that context. And recognizing, helping them to recognize and internalize the reality that what they need to be at their best within their own unique context is going to be different from their best friend or their next door neighbor or their child's best friend's parent or what have you. And that's a process that has to unfold over time to help folks recognize okay, well, what's my reality? What's my context? Like, what are my strengths? What are my challenges? What are my aptitudes? And how can I embrace those things and figure out how to use them to optimize my own sense of well-being, my own ability to be at my best out there in the world?

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Yeah. I mean, the nervous system is such a huge piece. Regulation, regulation, regulation, right? I mean, I'm autistic. Three of my kids are. So, I mean, we're trying to find regulation under the rug and in the nooks and crannies in our house. So, you know, it looks so different in so many different ways for in our house. Uh, but there's always different challenges, and not every challenge is an emergency, right? And when you step away, it's not avoidance, like you said, it's regulation. And that changes how we parent in the moment. And what are some signs that a parent is dysregulated? And what are ways that we can reset?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah, that's a great question. And so we know that we're becoming dysregulated as parents when our tempers are getting shorter. Maybe we're snapping at things which, you know, on a day when we're not feeling quite as overwhelmed, stressed out, those things might not be such a big deal. You know, we're snapping, we're yelling, we're not showing up with compassion or that authentic sense of connection. So we we know at that point we might be tired, we might be feeling exhausted, we might, you know, be starting to eat poorly for what our body needs. So all these things are signs that we're not at our regulated best. And so that's the point where we want to step away or build opportunities for us to step away in. We want to make sure that we're connecting with friends or some sort of a supportive community in some way. It can be short, it can be a phone call to a friend, laughing for a minute, something like that. It doesn't have to be a huge deal. Um, it's practicing a technique or a tool to regulate your stress response. That's actually the first and most important thing that I teach pretty much everybody that I work with. A technique that I love and that I is my go-to in teaching folks was developed by a physician in Boston in the 1970s named Herbert Benson. And the technique is called the relaxation response. And basically, super simple technique. That's why I love it so much. You come up with a word or a phrase that you find soothing in some way, and you breathe. So five minutes in the morning, five minutes later in the day, and you start to internalize what it feels like to be in that stress-modulated space. And then folks can build from there. And practice is necessary. But the cool thing is you can keep this technique in your back pocket such that when a stressful moment in the house comes up or a hard conversation with

Responsive Parenting When You’re Fried

SPEAKER_01 20:00

a child or something stressful at work, you can take a step back, pause, think of your word or phrase, and breathe for like a minute or two. So mini reset. So having a technique like that is vital. And that's what everything else is built off of.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

I'm a swimmer, and so I would actually do this where I would step away with, I don't know if you did this with tennis, but I would like picture myself swimming, just being in that water, you know, fully engulfed by the water and going through it and, you know, going into the wall and coming out of a turn. You know, it just really would calm me.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

I love that. That's a great example. And yes, that's another way to do it, right? Sort of that visualization of being in that space where you are in that stress-modulated mode. And swimming is a perfect example of that. Um, I I'm I'm a bit of a um fitness swimmer myself. And so I hear exactly what you're saying, like, you know, moving through the water and coming out of that turn. And so it just feels peaceful in this moment to me, right? It does pluck out the world. Wonderful, wonderful example. I love that. Having a way to get into that modulated space is key.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

So I'd said that I had a favorite quote. Well, here it is. Connection trumps control. And when we're scared, you know, we clamp down, we tighten rules, we force compliance with our kids, we try to control our outcomes. But kids don't feel safe inside control, but they feel safe inside connection. This right here is everything. Can you unpack connection trumps control? And what does that look like in real life when your child is melting down or pushing every button that you have?

unknown 21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

That's such a great question. And so, really, the connection piece is about that authentic human connection that we have with our kids. And really the goal is to carve out just time to be with them each day. It's going to look different for all of us, right? Different schedules and different um priorities and all of that. But within your context, carving out that time to just be with your child without, you know, trying to fix or understand the depth of the emotion, sometimes just sitting with the emotion is all that's necessary to help calm a child who might be melting down or struggling with a challenge that's really got them upset, something along those lines. And really just being able to be there with them, kind of um experiencing alongside them any disappointments that might be happening, any things that might not be going well without trying to fix or or um control what's what's happening or what the outcome is. And it's much easier said than done. It's hard to watch our kids struggle.

Balance And The Comparison Trap

SPEAKER_01 23:10

It's really hard. I mean, it's hard for me daily. Um, and and so I have to remind myself of this all the time. And really, as they get older, you know, helping them to articulate what they're feeling by just being there, you know, giving them that opportunity to articulate what's going on. And, you know, what you think might help probably isn't what helps, right? And so just being there to listen and to guide if it becomes clear that maybe some guidance would be helpful. So being able to read your child and read what they need really comes from awareness of yourself and awareness and awareness of your child and who they are. So that's, I think, really important. And what we're doing there, particularly early on, is we're laying the foundation for them to self-regulate in their own ability to problem solve, make decisions, make decisions that which are hopefully in their best interest. So when they're older and maybe curfew issues come up, or you know, things that that you might feel like, oh no, I've got to jump in here and control this outcome. Hopefully the child is poised to make the decision that's in their best interest on their own. Again, easier said than done, and not a perfect process and unfolds differently for all of us and for all of our children, but that's sort of the big idea.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Well, and we don't have to be perfect, you know. And 100%, I also loved that you said create a home where it's safe to fail. So that is beautiful, where it's a home that celebrates effort. I mean, I just lived in that for a moment because that was so well said.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

And that's huge. I mean, that's absolutely huge because we're not all gonna succeed the first time out of the gate on really anything that we do. And so helping our kids to understand that reality early on is vital. So helping them to, you know, get back up, move forward after not succeeding, after failing at something, really, really important. Help them to develop sort of problem solving skills. Yeah, things might be hard. Maybe you failed that math test. And what might happen if you talk to your teacher and advocate for yourself in terms of what might help me do better next time? That sort of thing, instead of swooping in to tell them what to do, you know, that kind of a thing. And also something that's really, I think, helpful in this in this domain. It's not being afraid to share our own challenges as parents with our kids in a developmentally appropriate way, not in a way that kind of gives them the message like, oh, well, that happened to me. Here's how you handle it. Not that. But more like, oh, mom

Dysregulation Signs And Quick Resets

SPEAKER_01 26:20

or dad have had challenges too. They've failed at things, but look, they've gotten up, they've moved forward. And so from that perspective, sharing our challenges with our kids is a really important and really powerful um piece of helping them understand that, you know, things aren't easy. The challenges will come up, they won't succeed the first time out of the gate, oftentimes, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Yeah. You did talk about how you got so upset about spilled juice, you know, and I mean that was, you know, we get upset, we overreact. But then we come back and say, you know what, I'm sorry. And I overreacted. And we model. That's what we do. We model.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

That's a huge point. Yes. And I did say that in the book, right? It was an example. And exactly that speaks to this idea that acknowledging when perhaps we've reacted in a way that we're not proud of. We didn't mean to, we didn't want to, but we were burned out, overwhelmed, kind of, you know, on the brink of really actually needing to step away. And so acknowledging those things, those moments to our kids only strengthens the connection, only builds that foundation stronger and gives them the very clear message that, oh, hmm, yeah, kind of owning when I didn't respond the way I wanted to, and shifting gears on that is really, really a powerful thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Yeah. And when you were talking about your own personal stories and and how hard it is to let our kids suffer, you did talk about your middle schooler and uh how hard that was, and you wanted to step in. And your kind of counselor voice came out. I kind of laughed at that. You know, how do you want to handle this? Um, it kind of made me think of that. But at least you turned it over to him and you said, you know, how do you want to handle it? So you stepped back and you let him, and that's brave parenting, I think. You know, it it's really hard for us to do that. Talk about that moment and what was happening inside you and why is it so hard for us to do that? I mean, is maybe it's our control. We've always took care of them when they were small, and it's that letting go, probably.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yeah, it's the letting go. It's the not wanting to see our kids struggle. Yeah. Because that's painful. Let's, let's, yeah, it's painful to see our kids struggle. And so, but at the same time, reminding ourselves of how important problem solving skills are, how important it is for our kids to, even if it feels scary to them, take risks to figure out, hmm, maybe I'll have that hard conversation with my math teacher. And maybe, maybe that will help me to do better next time on the test, that kind of thing. Or, hmm, maybe I need to talk back to the bully or kind of figure out sort of how we can create some common ground such that the bully knows they're not going to push me around anymore. You know, kind of helping our kids take those kinds of steps to advocate and develop the foundation for protecting themselves is really important, but really, really hard. And absolutely those moments are really, really hard for me too. And it's it's it's a process of getting there where we're able to fine-tune what works best for us and for our kids. So there's no one size fits all in any any of it, any of this either.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Yeah, I'm a big uh advocate. I mean, that's I think that that's one of my biggest jobs for my kids because I adopted my first two, and now I have these three, and they have such special needs, and it's very different. So, and you're right, one size doesn't fit all. And I'm uh they are very different with their learning styles and their pacing requirements and their nervous systems, and you do talk about IEPs and different ways to reach kids, which is so important. You have many different scenarios in your book. How does resilient parenting shift when a child has significant needs? And what do you say to parents who are trying everything and still feel like they're failing?

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Yeah, that's that's such a great question. And, you know, really the resilient parenting piece when our children are struggling and maybe struggling sort of beyond that threshold of, you know, what might be something that we can help them manage or help them advocate for. Maybe they they need the extra support in in the form of an IEP or therapy or coaching or learning disability uh support in terms of um, I have one child who actually had a really hard time learning to read. Um, and his brother, his twin, had a very easy time learning to read. And so seeing those two, you know, living with those two very different, you know, um needs in our boys at that time, but really had to step in and really look deeply

Connection Trumps Control At Home

SPEAKER_01 31:40

at what our one child who was struggling so much in the classroom needed to access his strengths, access um what would help him to succeed within his own unique context was gonna look very different than it did for his brother. And that's okay. But really jumping in there to start uncovering what that looks like and not putting a timeline on it as a parent is really important because it's gonna take time to find a path that's gonna help your child optimize within the context of struggle. And so I think that's a really important piece because oftentimes if we don't find the solution right away as parents, we feel like we've failed. And that's not true. You know, we're we're doing the best we can to figure out what's needed to help our child flourish. And that really played out very clearly here. But that's the the kind of direction that I encourage for for parents and figuring out what your child needs, and probably it's gonna look very different than their best friend or your neighbor, and to not not feel badly about the supports that your child needs to be at their best, because again, we're all different, coming from different places, need different um different things to flourish within our own unique context.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Right. That's one of my favorite points in your book is just that everybody is so different and we are met and we meet others in so many different ways. There is not one way to do it. Uh, in your first book, Bounce, you have seven pillars of resilience for kids. And if we could do a quick overview of these, because each chapter, and we won't cover all of them in depth, but I was just one, because you cover frustration tolerance and emotions and friendships and social pressure and focus and attention, courage, motivation, confidence, and optimism. I mean, there is just so much there. And really, I think it depends on their age, and it also depends on how young they start this. I mean, it's really important that they start these tools very young.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

100%, yes. And the cool thing is about the seven pillars uh laid out in bounds, they really do apply to all of us throughout the lifespan. They do. So yeah, absolutely, 100%. But the the book is written through the lens of the elementary school child in mind with the elementary school child in mind, because my boys were in elementary school uh at the time that I wrote it. Um, but you know, we start with this idea of managing emotion and tolerating frustration. And really what that means is helping our kids to have a strategy, have a tool in place, have something where they can manage, modulate their stress response so that when they find themselves getting frustrated, when they find themselves getting heightened emotionally in terms of how they're gonna react or respond to something, we want them in a place where they can respond, where they're kind of modulated, just like we want to be as parents. Right. So they can kind of ride the challenges more like waves as opposed to escalating to the point of shutdown. So that's that's what that's all about. And yeah, we can start instilling that really, really early. You know, we can teach our kids the relaxation response, you know, when they're elementary school age. Prior to that, we can do things like belly breathing and bubble blowing, you know, to try to help them kind of modulate their breath. And because we know that having kids, um, young, young kids with a bubble wand blowing bubbles, it really makes that stress response. So lots of things that we can do there.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Yeah, you you talk about Quinn. He's a uh or you know, a story in the book where uh you know they Quinn hates math and the teacher is confused in what to do and how to meet the child where they are, when they just feel so defeated. And you say something that's so true that the more frustrated children become, the less that they can perform. I mean, that's really true for all of us. But what should happen in that moment? What does support look like when a child is completely defeated? When instead of um, and you want to build resilience instead of shame?

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Yeah, that's a great question. And so, first thing is to for the teacher to step in and really connect

Making Home Safe To Fail

SPEAKER_01 36:10

with Quinn on that human level, kind of allow Quinn to see, okay, I'm here with you, and encourage a couple deep breaths to sort of try to regulate, you know, the the system. And then try to look at exactly what's happening on the math page. And inevitably, despite challenge, despite great struggle, there's always something that's we can pick out that's positive, that's gone well in the context. And so there you go. Trying to either point that that first thing out points that first thing out, and then encourages Quinn to pick something out, you know, maybe it's that his handwriting is good on that particular day, or maybe, you know, who knows what it might be, but something and then try to from there really uncover, kind of deconstruct where the block is, where the challenge is, but really it's regulating in the moment, finding something that is going well to kind of shift that lens to open up that space of possibility. Like, okay, now let's move forward in terms of solving the the problem. Like, how do we what do you need in this moment to have that light bulb go off to you know be able to put those numbers together in a little bit of a different way? But it's really starting with that human connection as opposed to, you know, yeah, you're right, you're not very good at math, you know what I mean? That whole thing, that's not helpful. Like that's not. I I'll tell you a quick story in that I'd missed a lot of school in fifth grade. And prior to that long hospitalization, I had been tracked in the highest math class. And when I got back, I missed a lot and I was no longer on course. And math all of a sudden became really, really hard. It was like an Achilles heel. And the process that I just described did not happen for me in my, I was sort of like relegated to the lowest math class, and I never bounced back. Like math has always been, I and I don't know if it was that. Maybe I'm just wired to not be a math person, but that was definitely a defining moment for me back in the day around math. And um, it's it's um, yeah, who knows? I mean, I I turned out fine. I became a psychologist, but math and statistics all the way through were never, never, never, never went very well.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Yeah, I'm well, we are all different. And, you know, it's uh you talk about kids shutting down and things like that and the demand and you know, meeting them where they are. And I love that because that's what I'm constantly advocating with the teachers. And so if you could talk more about extra time, audiobooks, and I also we do speech to text with one of my kids and other ways that educators can help kids with differences because the goal is learning, it's not suffering.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

100%. That is such a great point. And I could not agree with that more. And you know, so our one son who struggled academically early on, um definitely uh, you know, was benefiting greatly from audiobooks and you know, kind of different angles on integrating the information than, say, his brother, who didn't have those those same challenges. And so, really, really important to us as parents to be flexible, to be open to these different ways of helping kids to integrate information, to do that in a way that they can actually maximize their potential. Because oftentimes kids who struggle, like with reading and and things like that, are extremely bright and we have to cover their strengths. You know, so my my son who had a hard time reading early on, an amazing memory. So once we got him hooked up on the audiobooks, I mean, his comprehension is like through the roof, right? Right. But that was not obvious prior to the audiobooks because the reading piece was so cumbersome and so hard. And it's it's just it's really

Letting Kids Struggle And Advocate

SPEAKER_01 40:40

important for folks to be open to these different angles on learning and integrating information. And it's not all often sometimes it's not, it doesn't happen out there. I know that um, you know, my my mother had a hard time. Well, I don't understand why, you know, audiobooks, what do you mean? He's like, no, no, no. And so being open to these um alternative angles is vital. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Yeah, my son, it takes him so long to even write his name, but he is so smart. And so when he had to write a paper, and I homeschool him, but he had to write a paper and he was having such a hard time, and he couldn't do it. So we just turned on the microphone on Google Docs, and I said, Go. And he wrote this whole entire thing, he watched it, we edited it, we did all these things. He's nine, but he was so excited. He we printed it, he read it in front of the family, and he was so proud of himself because he was not able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

So that is such a cool example. I love that, and then exactly you mentioned this whole thing. It kids see what they're capable of, you know, because with these other angles on getting things done. Because, like, let's say that, you know, he had been forced to sit in front of a computer and got two lines out or something, and that would be a real blow to his sense of what would be possible for him. But with this other angle, boom. And it's so cool. Yeah, I love that. It really shows the power in that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

The the tools are there. You know, we didn't have those tools growing up, but they have those tools, so why not utilize them? When they're out of school, that's what they're gonna be using. So they might as well know those tools.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

100%, yes. Absolutely integrating them in a way that helps them to optimize is 100% what's so important.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Okay, so pillar two, navigating friendships and social pressures. And friendships can be brutal. I mean, social skills and all that stuff is some of the hardest things that kids go through, and sensitive kids who really think deeply, they can, you know, take it the hardest. It's hard for them to move on. You talk about the tools and the maturity and trusted adults, emotional self-regulation, social awareness. I mean, all of it. So, what do you want parents to do when the kid is targeted, like bullied? How do we build resilience without teaching kids that they have to absorb that cruelty?

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Yeah, it is so, so hard, right? And it's a lot of psychoeducation, it's a lot of helping our kids to understand their own context, what they're bringing to the table, their strengths, and helping them also to understand, and this takes time, and it's hard, harder when it's a very young child, but you know, understand that oftentimes the kid who's being bullied doesn't feel very good about themselves. And so really helping them to understand that piece, under helping them to understand how their way of being out there. In the world impacts others, other kids, and such. And really helping that be their foundation, kind of inside of understanding themselves, believing in themselves and their strengths. Easier said than done, all of it though. And oftentimes we need other, you know, interventions, we need psychoeducation in the classroom. We need, you know, but really creating that foundation of core belief from the inside out is important. Um, one example that I talk about in balance is is my son, um, when he was in kindergarten, showing up at school with the jersey of the wrong football team. You know, we are here in Seattle and he was wearing a different jersey. And um, the kids were just brutal to him. And, you know, knocking him down. He was very proud of his jersey because his uncle had given it to him, you know, kicking mud and the whole thing. And it was just, it was really, really painful um to watch, but helping him to understand in a developmentally appropriate way that you can wear whatever jersey you want, buddy. And it's, you know, and but there had to be, you know, meetings with the teacher and all these things so that the behavior didn't get out of control, but really kind of creating that foundation of self-belief and understanding of, you know, these words are not gonna hurt me. And it's it's something that, you know, there are people out there who are gonna be mean, and we have to find a way to believe in in ourselves and connect with the people who, you know, are kind out there and understanding how we're impacting others helps in that process. So I don't know, that's that's sort of the the foundation of emotional intelligence that we can start to instill in very young children, but it takes it takes time, sometimes a lifetime. Yeah, and it would be different depending on age. So of course, yes. Yeah. 100%, yes, 100%. And it has to be much more concrete when the kids are are younger.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

Okay, pillar three, sustaining focus and attention. Um so, and I always say this: I mean, life is not a straight line. There is nothing linear about life. Learning isn't linear, nothing is. And you also say that learning requires resilience and it's not linear, and it will never look the same for two kids. Never. So, what

Resilience With IEPs And Big Needs

SPEAKER_00 46:40

are your best strategies to help kids build focus without turning the whole day into a big power struggle?

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah, you know, it's so, so hard. It's first of all, helping them to modulate their stress response so they're in that even space, and then defining the goal for the day or for the activity or for whatever it might be. And then if they hit it, great. But if not, appreciating the small wins along the way to that goal, right? And sort of focusing on breaking down, because oftentimes we need to break down larger goals into smaller bite-sized pieces, and then hitting each piece and celebrating that along the way and internalizing, oh yeah, I had a win and I got closer to where I want to be. Yeah. Helping them, helping them to see that process is it's really important. But it it starts with a modulated stress response. Because if child, if we're starting up here and we're overwhelmed by a large goal, and you know, we can easily get off track and not get anywhere. So we really want to try to try to modulate that stress response as a way of starting to move forward. But we want to celebrate the small steps along the way, because that's oftentimes what's important to be the catalyst for getting us to the larger goal.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

Well, the small wins are what gets us to the large goal. I mean, I mean, when we look back in hindsight, we don't really even realize all the small steps we took to get there.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

100%. Yes. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

100%. So I want to hit these just quickly. Courage is trying, um, even when you're scared. And motivation is the inner reason that keeps us moving. And confidence is what protects us from quitting. And optimism is that belief that different outcomes are possible. You wrote, embrace the idea of possibility. And I absolutely love that. If you could just pick any one of these pillars that parents overlook the most, which one would it be? And what's one thing that they can start doing today?

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Yeah, so I think what it would be the optimism one, right? Because, you know, oftentimes we can get caught up in the challenges, in the things that aren't going well for ourselves as parents and also for our kids. And then we kind of lose sight of the possibilities on the other side of the challenges. So one thing I have folks do is something called the daily wins exercise, which really serves to shift our lens from all of that like would have could have showed us, things aren't going well, you know, that negative self-talk loop. If we at the end of each day jot down three to five things that went well on the day, even though we're so focused on the things that didn't go well, but if we can intentionally pick out the things that did go well, over time we're gonna have this really cool record of, oh, well, things aren't really that bad. You know, challenge has to be contended with, but aren't really that bad. You know, there are some good things. So serves to shift the lens at least to neutral, which opens up this ability to see the possibilities out there on the other side of challenge for ourselves as well as for our kids.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

Yeah. Um, you know, you had so many great points that I wanted to touch, ask you some just quick questions, because you know, resilience doesn't happen overnight. And it it doesn't, it is it doesn't have to be something that you're even born with. I mean, it's something that you can build up over time. So what is a step-away practice that people can do in just right now in like 60 seconds?

SPEAKER_01 50:47

In 60 seconds? Well, they can they can do a a modified version of the relaxation response, or they can look around the room that they're in and find something that makes them smile, or they can look out the window because oftentimes that's one thing that we're forgetting to do. We're forgetting to find those small snippets, moments of joy that are all around us, but we're caught in the things that are hard, that are challenging, that are overwhelming, you know, pushing us towards the burnout. And so it's kind of intentionally looking for those things that are going to make us smile that can be really, really powerful.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

I think too, it's about giving ourselves permission to, you know, I mean, it's so hard for me oftentimes to just, I'm in the mess, I'm in the moment. There's just all these things get going on. And to just, we're, we're, everything is outward. Everything is, we're looking out. And it's to give that permission for ourselves to look in and say, you know, it's okay.

Tools That Unlock Learning Strengths

SPEAKER_00 51:55

We have to do that. Wait a second, I'm not okay. I'm dysregulated, I'm starting to get upset. I need a moment, I need a timeout, you know, and it's and to do it.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

100%. Yes. It's it's knowing, it's having that awareness and knowing when to take that step back, when to create that space for you to then be able to move forward to optimize. But that space is really important.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

What's one phrase that parents can say in conflict that instantly restores connection?

SPEAKER_01 52:31

Hmm. Yeah, that's that's really, really um, really important. And, you know, they're different things, but really this idea of I'm here for you, you know, and and being in um in the moment with their child and helping them to take a step back, create that space and that perspective. So maybe, you know, breathe, you know, that sort of thing. I'm here for you. Let's breathe, that kind of thing, because we want to be able to create that space and that perspective for both ourselves as well as with our children.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Every single time I turn it over to my kids, like when you did, and they look surprised, like, what? Wait, you're not gonna tell me what to do, you know? And it's it's that tossing it back to them, and it's like offering them something that you're saying, hey, you know what? I trust you. I trust you. I don't really yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

Exactly. And asking them, what do you need in this moment, depending on how old they are, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

Oh my gosh, that's so good. I love it. What's one thing that you wish every teacher understood about resilience and reaching kids in the classroom?

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Yeah, that's a really great question. And I I really wish that all teachers were looking through that lens of all kids, regardless of their challenges or struggles, have great potential. And question of accessing, uncovering that potential.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

You know, I think every child wants to be their best. I really do. And I think that they're giving it their all. And when we see behaviors, that's a symptom. That's telling us something. If they're not reaching their full potential, they're not sitting there saying, Well, I'm just not gonna do this. You know, I mean, there's a reason why they're feeling that way and they're really upset. That's what I always want the teachers to see with my child. What is going on? Why is this happening? How can we help you even make the first step? Because, you know, it's lots of time, you know, in that fog, and it's just taking that first step. And we might not be able to see 10 steps down, even with a problem that you're working on. But you can do this step, right? You can do this step. Let's do this together. And it's co-regulating, co-doing.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

Exactly. Yes. And that co-regulation within the context of that authentic human relationship is so powerful.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

I um want to end with your words. Uh, legacy isn't what we leave behind, it's what we live. And I just thought that that was so beautiful. So again, thank you for writing these books. You know, how can people get a hold of you? Do you have a website?

SPEAKER_01 55:29

I do. Uh, my website is www.katelundspeaks.com.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Okay. So you go around and you speak, and you're also doing coaching.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

Yes, exactly. Coaching around all of the issues that we've talked about today. And um also works specifically with sports parents.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Um, so if anybody out there really needs any of these types of helps, please reach out to Kate Lon at her uh website. Kate, thank you so much for being here and for writing these books because I wasn't kidding. I mean, they I really enjoyed them. I really took a lot out of them. I really took a lot of notes. And for all the parents out there, please buy them and teachers, educators, sports, coaches, everybody, buy these because um you will get something out of it. I promise you. So, you know, we don't want to uh lead with shame. We don't want to reach these kids or other adults or ourselves in ways that we aren't successful. We want to become our best selves and we want our kids to become our best selves. So please tell everyone about this book, and I want them to connect with you. So, Kate, thanks again so much for being here today. I really appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 56:52

Well, thank you so much for having me. I really have enjoyed this, and I I greatly appreciate the fact that you um read the books and enjoyed them. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

And to everybody out there, as we normally say on our podcast, that there is purpose in the pain and that there is hope in the journey. And we will see

Friendships Bullying And Self Belief

SPEAKER_00 57:10

you next time.