Quest for Presence: Re-Imagine Time for Well-Being
Quest for Presence: Re-Imagine Time for Well-Being
Threshold: Diving In
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Hello, everybody. This is Joel Bennett with episode seven of Quest for Presence. Before we get into this episode, I just want to let everybody know that I'm going to be doing a one-day intensive in San Diego on September 25th, Quest for Presence, Returning the Soul to Wellness. This will be a one-day pre-conference intensive at the Wellness Councils of America. You can go to shop.welcoa.org w e-l-c-o-a dotorg, welcoa wellness councils of America, and look for intensives with me, Joel Bennett.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the Quest for Presence Podcast. This is an intentional community of time weavers. Many of us have been burdened by clock time. We forget that there are so many wonderful and beautiful features in this gift of time. Come join us. There is a treasure for you in every episode.
SPEAKER_02Before we get into this next episode, I want to put this idea of threshold, such an important idea in context. So whether you're just joining us or following from previous episodes, remember this is the first season of Quest for Presence Podcast, and it follows along with the book, The Connoisseur of Time, which you can access from our website, presencequest.life. So just to back up a little, to be a connoisseur, what does that mean? What is this whole idea that we're talking about with this book? In Connoisseur, there are three ways to approach being connoisseur. In the book, it says, one who seeks to enjoy, appreciate, and discriminate subtleties, one who seeks to enjoy, appreciate, and discriminate subtleties. And we're talking about here is life. Or it could be one who wants to understand the details, the technique, or principles of an art, and then help others, which is a lot of what we're doing here, is kind of giving you the technical aspects of how do you enjoy life. But you may not need that. You may be able to just dive and jump in, which we'll talk about here in a moment. And it can also be somebody who takes the time to explore the background, the history, or the origin and diverse processes and people behind whatever that thing is you're savoring, you're tasting, your the color, the musical note. So if any of those are relevant to you, we also call those seeker, practitioner, and scholar. So just again to back up a little bit, that's what we're talking about here. It's really about how we show up in a real way to one's life. And not just on life's terms, but how do we show up in a real way and then dive into or just leap into that life? So that's that's what we're talking about. And we talk about this as a three-step process. It all starts with pausing, stopping for a moment, which is what I hope you're doing here, then showing up, being present, and listening. And this listening is very important, and there are many different ways to listen. In the previous episodes, just prior to this episode, we have this listening exercise that we did. And it's about listening to our current attitude toward time. How are we living our life? For example, I'm not managing time well. And then also, what are we attracted to? What is our attractive time attitude? What we call the threshold attitude, which could be, I manage my time well, or it could be, I really dive into life and experience it for what it is. Because it is that attitude that is where we live life from. Again, not only on life's terms, but with this interconnection to life, whether it's an interconnection to our spirit, our soul, our destiny, we just feel it. So that's what's happening here in this next episode. Just before we got on this episode, Art, Ronnie, and Christy and I were listening to Ronnie talk about this experience that had happened to him just the night before, which you'll hear about. Ronnie was hosting or MCing a large social event, which he's great at, and he had many people there, and it went really great for Ronnie. In his own words, he said, he got to love. I got to love on people. I got to love on people. And it was his sense of being grateful for, appreciating, and just flowing, actually being fully present to the social occasion, loving on people. What's so amazing, as you'll hear in this conversation, is that in the previous episode, Ronnie's threshold statement was, My life is filled with treasures. That's he was struggling with not being able to manage his time very well. And here comes this experience where he actually gets to experience the treasures with feelings of appreciation and preciousness and gratitude and awe, and also this seizing the day or clutching it, like he really had this tiny victory. So in a minute, you'll listen to these experiences. But before we do, I just want to give a very quick definition of threshold. Technically, it's a strip of wood, metal, or stone forming the bottom of a doorway and crossed in, entering a house or room. For example, he stood on the threshold of Sheila's bedroom, is the definition from uh the dictionary. But it's it's also the means or place of entry and entrance, the place or point of a beginning, the outset. And it's also the point or level at which some effect begins to be produced. And that's what we're looking at here. Listen for the threshold as we go into this episode. So gratitude, first and foremost, I'm just so glad it's uplifting to hear because in the past meetings you have said that the way you are present, Ronnie, is through connection. That's what I heard. And so last night it was connection and spades. Is that right? Oh yeah. You were able to love I love it. I I was able to love on people. So gratitude is an interesting one because it's uh you know, we talk about the treasures of life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And gratitude is probably the one that is we the one we most talk about. It's the w it's the one that touches or awakens the soul. So uh what I talk about is that of all the soulful experiences we can have, gratitude is perhaps the one we most discuss in common or daily social life. You know, we t we talk it's it's easier to talk about gratitude than other things like preciousness or adoration or love or awe. You know, it's just more common. So it it often points to being thankful for something that has happened, a gift or support in this experience that you had. Was there also a gratitude for just being alive?
SPEAKER_01Oh, for sure. And that was definitely part of me just like I was saying earlier, I was just replaying the night over and over again. And that was part of the gratitude. Like, oh Lord, like I was able to be there and live live that like that's amazing. So yeah, yeah, you sound like Christy. So to answer your question in short, yeah, I that that that was definitely one of the thoughts and the feelings.
SPEAKER_04Do you know it's interesting listening to you talk, and I think it's funny how it always brings it back to you. Um gratitude is something that we show for and grateful for. But really last night, because appreciation is so present, and you're present in the oneness and the flow and the the serenity and everything. So last night in the middle of it, you were just so appreciative, and you come from that appreciation, and when you come from that, it looks like you're you're embodying everything that it is, and it just flows from you. It's just this amazing, beautiful feeling. Yeah, and then when you go back, you're just like, I'm so grateful for this feeling, I'm so grateful for this moment, I'm so grateful to have that. Now I want to just live in that oneness of appreciation for all that is, you know, for all that can be. I'm just so appreciative. And it's like you feel that, like you embrace it, you embody does that make sense. Like I come from appreciation that is so now, that's so in the moment. And then I sit back and think, oh, I'm so grateful for that. Thank you.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And I'm also so grateful for what's the kind of I'm energized and excited, but my energy is coming from the appreciation for what is for this moment of now. And that carries me through a gratitude.
SPEAKER_05I would love art's thoughts on this because I I kind of feel like art's got some amazing wisdom on this already.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so here's what's coming to mind, Christy, when you were talking. There's uh a quote uh that says that um uh right praise is inner health made visible or audible. And so when you were saying that, that's what came to me, this whole sense that um human beings are made to uh praise, which is appreciation. Praise rightly, and when when we're doing that, it is a revelation of an inner health. It's just being made audible or visible to the world. And so so that's kind of what came to me when in when Ronnie was describing that, and you were describing what you were sensing about him. And um, there's a life cycle to that, right? That that um we put energy out into the universe when we rightly praise or appreciate something and and somehow verbalize it, say it, and put it in the it's a feedback loop that just keeps giving life to ourselves and to people. But if we if we if we don't give it away, it won't return to us, right? And so that that's what I was thinking is.
SPEAKER_05That honoring.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, honoring the uh um the struggle of um I think again, we've talked about this before, but when C.S. Lewis in one of his lesser-known things was writing about um the Psalms, and he objected uh early in his uh faith walk with this idea that why would why would a deity demand that we praise the deity? Because you don't like it when anybody else insists on us praising them, right? But he over time in his uh consciousness and maturity, he began to understand how healthy that was to praise the right things properly, to appreciate them, and and express them from our soul uh because it was tapping into an essence that we were created to be uh praisers and appreciators and be an amazement and wonder. And when we stop being an amazement and wonder, we shrivel up, right?
SPEAKER_03Very true, very true.
SPEAKER_00And it's a big, it's a big deal in in recovery, uh, especially especially 12-step, but I I think all recovery really that's healthy is the attitude of gratitude, developing the attitude of gratitude, right? And when you first go through it, you're like, okay, sure, yeah. I need to be grateful. And you don't get it, I didn't get it. It took a lot of work for it to sink in that because I was trying to do it through my head only. I didn't know any way to do any other work. I didn't know there was another way to do work, I didn't know there was a heart center and a body center. I had no clue. Right.
SPEAKER_02Right. So I Ronnie, I I I appreciate your sharing how much you felt so present because you had this opportunity to love on people and the feeling of gratitude that came from that. This is that place where you leapt into your life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and that, I think part of that is what made it so hard to explain, especially to my wife this morning. Gosh, I'm reliving it now.
SPEAKER_02It's beyond words, yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's the all, it's that all in life. I've I've heard different ones, and um, I thought that was an interesting phrase, but really, because when it's almost like you step back and you're the observer of what's going on, you're just in awe, you know, and I love that when when I heard that say, it's just the awe of life. You know, you're you've got there when you're in the awe of life, like, oh wow, you know, the awe. It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_02So the you know, we're moving into this whole idea of treasuring the life that we have, that this happening life, right? The moment immersed in in the flow of the very thick of it. Gratitude embraces every treasure. Awe is, of course, uh, somebody I've followed for many years, Dr. Keltner. His book on awe just came out a couple of weeks ago. And he's a researcher at uh Berkeley. It's possible we might have him on just to talk about awe, right? Just a whole session on awe. Um and I think gratitude is so important because it does make us present to anything else that we're experiencing, right? So I can be with my granddaughter and experience such intense adoration. I mean, just the quintessential adorability, you know? I mean, just completely adorable, and I can spend the rest of my time here showing you pictures of her. I think the first thing you said was it was not adorability that was that led you to the experience of gratitude. It was almost like this experience of you clutched it, and that's another treasure, you know. It's like you've got this is it, man. You are in it. You clutched it, you got this, right? Yeah, yeah. So that's another treasure, you see. And so what's what's interesting about the presence work is that it moves us into this place of no mind, speechlessness. And in Buddhism, they call that bodhicitta. It's that it's that place of pure consciousness where the thinking, you know, as as as going back to art, you know, it's my best thinking that got me here, you know, in terms of recovery work. So there's no thinking. So you I don't think you can think your way into presence, you can only feel your way into it. I like that. Well, that's what we did last time is the feelings associated with the first exercise, you know. And with art, you know, for him it was calm. Remember if you remember, and you, Ronnie, also talked about. Um, I think I'm trying to remember, I know for Christy it was a little bit of awe and then also anxiety that that led her to be more present, you know. So I think as we move into this next episode, if I can, you know, kind of give us a little structure here, we're starting to move into the the deeper into this idea of the threshold. You can't dive into your life, I don't think, without coming from a threshold. You're diving into it. So you're not even, we live so much of our life right there, you know. Maybe if we're even like, you know, we we hold back from our life, you know. Uh we're busy with so many things. And so the opportunity for you, Ronnie, came up where you didn't have to, you didn't have to worry about that. You were just totally, totally in it, right? That's the diving in, right? That's the this is happening now. You know, Christy calls it a now life. We use this concept of threshold because so many people are like talking about we're in this great transition. You know, we talked a few weeks ago about you know what's happening to the planet, and we're entering a new phase. Are we going to make it through? You know, I sent you that that link. I don't know if you saw that link to Michael Mead's uh podcast this past week on the doomsday clock. You know, the doomsday clock from the atomic bulletin of scientists is now at the the closest it's ever been to doomsday, you know? And so it's like we're every, you know, that like we talked about, you know, the end is nigh, you know, we're all gonna die. There's some kind of transition. And to me, that's a perennial or a constant part of the human condition. I mean, it's been going on forever, even in Christ's time. If you, you know, it was this like all this like what's happening, you know, judgment day. What I think we're being called to all the time is to recognize that it's not the future of humanity that we or the future of our own life that we have to get our shit together for. We just need to let go of all of that and love. Right? We just need to let go of that and be in love. And and that's the answer. So if we can do that, if we can come back from all this future work, all this what's gonna happen next, and how's it gonna turn out? And am I gonna be it? You know, the rushing around that you, Ronnie, and Art talked about. If we can come back from that to the threshold and then dive into our feelings, dive into our life, dive into the treasures, everything will be okay at that point. But that's the work, that's the quest, that's questing for presence from there. That's the idea. Is that making sense?
SPEAKER_01Yes, and Joel, I'm trying so much not to dominate the combo, but you are speaking to my spirit right now. Just because what you make me think of is I've been operating in this space of like I know there's stuff I need to get done. And I can get lost in that and focus on, oh, I gotta do this, oh, I gotta do that, or I gotta do that. But when I take those moments to just exist, be fully present, it's not that I'm not concerned about the stuff that I have to do, but I get that immediate faith that everything is gonna work out regardless. But it's only when I'm dialed in to that presence that you're talking about. And it's like all the minutiae is swept away. Now, realistically, I'm gonna get back to getting my task done. I mean, it it is, but but I just feel like everything is when you're when you're present, everything happens to make the things happen that need to happen. And I'm I'm gonna take you back to um one of our earlier recordings when I was talking about getting up at 3 a.m. And the the treasure that came from that was once I got up, I realized, oh, I forgot a deliverable for somebody. Now I've got I've got two hours to do that. I'm in a good headspace creatively. Not only was I able to deliver that, I was able to deliver that at a high level. And that's just an example of just like everything taking care of itself. Does that make sense, Joel Bennett?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, that's you know, where I'm gonna go here. Matthew 6, 28, do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will take care of itself, right? It's that whole passage. And so that's just one way that we have that wisdom. So that that when you tap into that, then you're present to your life. Right? Right. So I think thanks so much. Yeah, I mean, I mean, in terms of where we want to go, I think in this session, which we're all already talking about, is what is the what is the role of this idea? I keep harping on threshold. And the the reason I am is because many people are not necessarily aware of that. For many people, and myself included, it's it's you just can't just dive in, you know. Yeah. You just can't like, I remember my father taught me to swim by throwing me in the pool and uh was there to make sure that I didn't drown. And maybe that's that's not the way I wanted to experience it. You know. And and so I think we sometimes come cautiously or fearfully, like you know, Christy said, anxiety. Many people have anxiety about life that keeps them from living. You know, art's common tendency statement about life is a dull routine, there's nothing new here, you know, it's all just the same old drab. That's my question. What does threshold have to do with this whole concept of being present? And and also spirituality.
SPEAKER_04What when you say threshold, what is your what is the threshold exactly? Like what's what's so when you say I'm passing through the threshold or I'm I'm at the threshold, what is the threshold? Like, what is that?
SPEAKER_02It's a gateway. We talk about a gateway and it's the um place of jumping off from. It's something that is emerging that we're anticipating. It's something new. It's your end it's a it's an entry way. It's all of those things. The the term presence and the whole idea of showing up implies that there was something before that. It's not something in the past, it's not something in your memory, it's something in your consciousness. The threshold, only you know what it is that you are that's holding you back, that's keeping you from moving into that new space. That's a place of, oh, I need to take this next step.
SPEAKER_00So is it similar to the concept of or the real dynamic of uh something new about to be birthed, like coming out of the birth canal, something like that? It could be that too, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it's gonna be different for everybody. I mean, quest it's like the first step is always the first step. You're you're it's like, okay, we're gonna like last time we talked, and I gave the metaphor of your people arrive at the end of the movie and they're looking at a a new scene. They finally came here, right? They finally conquered the Death Star. They they arrived at the the end of the river, and Christy said, Let's do it again. So that's that that sense of positive exhilaration that comes from, oh, I'm in it now, I'm gonna do it again. We we live life always waiting for the future to happen or worried about the past, the threshold brings us to the present.
SPEAKER_04So it's something we're always arriving to, or stepping to.
SPEAKER_02Stepping from, all at the same time.
SPEAKER_00All at the same time. So I'm old enough to remember when this was a common uh way of phrasing things, when uh a couple got married in the old days. The idea of the husband, the male, perhaps taking the female, the wife, in the traditional sense, across the threshold. Which means Yeah, so there was a new life together beginning to form, uh, where before there had been two separate lives now, uh coming across that threshold was uh both symbolic but also uh deeper than that, even in terms of uh something something new is going to be experienced on the other side of that doorway.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So it's like the threshold is the beginning of the end.
SPEAKER_00Or the end of the beginning.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02To something new and powerful and completely, it's a transformation. It's the you know, there's a it's it comes from a term, I think it means tread, thresh, tread, and also door sill, you know, like you know, the windowsill, there's a door sill, right? That that small strip between the house and the world. It's also that liminal space that we talked about from, you know, in the Latin, we talked about that art. Yeah. So that there's something between the consciousness we currently have and the new consciousness that's being born.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so, Ronnie, when you had your experience of being loving on people at this, uh something inside of you, like this is it. And that's it. That's the life that you were, if you will, you know, whether destined to live, called to live, brought to live, that's that's when we fully come into the wholeness of our time here. It's a turning point.
SPEAKER_01Joel, in and thinking about the threshold and especially the reading, gosh, I'm gonna just try my best to just say this. But um, it it made me assess really like the like you said, that breaking point. Like what that was. Because I think about how I was, you know, uh, let's say even 10, 15 years ago, and not having the courage or the intentionality to operate within myself. You know, one of the things on my journey that has, I think, stifled my growth is focusing too much on trying to fit in and being less of me to be more of other people, thinking that if I'm more of other people, I will gain that acceptance, I will gain that that foundation, that opportunity to love on them. But as I think about the threshold, that whether it be a series of life events or what, or or as art knows, continued therapy that I I still go to to this day, I I'm so thankful for that because I can look back and say, uh-uh, you know, and in thinking about the treasures, as you say, that are on the other side of that threshold, that reinforces that thought of, uh-uh, we gotta, we gotta be here and we have opportunities to be here. But if you're me inside of my head, it's just like Ronnie, get out of your own way so Ronnie can come through.
SPEAKER_02Right. Right. I am my own worst enemy. Yeah, right. Um that's been the struggle for me as an executive, you know, as a as a business owner, is coming from a place of doing it by myself and then having employees and having contractors and then consulting and coaching. You I move from I can't do this by myself to a point where um I can do it with you, to a point to another point, which is like, why am I even here? Right, you know, and it's just I actually have this struggle with Christy. Christy has so much that she brings, and I'm like, I get into my own control thing, you know. It's like, well, Christy, you know, instead of honoring, so it's like when I'm you know, it's like the old saying, there's no I and team um except in the a hole, uh, you know, right in the a. And so the the idea is how do I we can do a graphic of that for the show notes.
SPEAKER_01I've never heard that before.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's the A. You know, there's an A and then there's an I. And so it's the same thing. And so we're talking in this journey. We're not alone on the threshold. That's the other part of this. That the real excitement for me comes when I can get out of my own way, and I see how vibrant and thriving the community around me is. And maybe I'm part of it, but I'm not all of it. So that's a that's the work. Art has talked a lot about this very thing, the struggle of me, you know, the ego, the enneagram, not my will, but yours. It's it's just an important thing. It's like I keep talking about slowing down in this work and coming back to the threshold. So I appreciate what you just said, Ronnie, that we can't enter the new room with our old self, and I think that's a good idea.