Quest for Presence: Re-Imagine Time for Well-Being
Quest for Presence: Re-Imagine Time for Well-Being
Threshold: Part 3
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Welcome back, Time Weavers. This next episode is from the book The Connoisseur of Time, where we talk about the chapter called A Contemplation, which is pages 41 to 51. Please review that. In that chapter, A Contemplation, we review six different spiritual and religious readings that speak to the relationship between time and spirituality. This is such a great episode. We have a lot of fun in terms of whether or not people have, like you, done your homework and done the reading. At any rate, whether you have or not, you'll still get a lot out of this. Art, Christy, and Ronnie all contemplate the meaning of these passages. And I'm very, very excited that Ronnie was able to tie this back to the idea of the threshold and the idea that the ego, the ego stands on the threshold and has to let go. These passages help us to let go, to go into that holy instant. Please listen, enjoy, let us know what you think. Please join us on Patreon and become a member, an ongoing member, so you can get special passages like these for your edification as a true time weaver.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to the Quest for Presence Podcast. This is an intentional community of time weavers. Many of us have been burdened by clock time. We forget that there are so many wonderful and beautiful features in this gift of time. Come join us. There is a treasure for you in every episode.
SPEAKER_00Is there any comment for this whole idea before we move into the contemplation, the marking off point for the temple?
SPEAKER_02Just one quick thing. It was interesting of all the uh quotes you had, that um the one that I think drew me the most was the one by the poet Hafez. And I'd not I'd only known his work a few years ago for the first time, and then revisiting here this was interesting to me, that that one was the one that drew me again. And I think part of it was because of that whole idea of the in the poem of the gifts that you were given on your birthday, and that we're still uncovering and opening those gifts. Um anyway, that was the one that stuck out to me.
SPEAKER_00So art just dove right in.
SPEAKER_04It's in the contemplation.
SPEAKER_03Nice segue, art.
SPEAKER_00It's beautiful. These are, as I said, these many of these are excerpted, right? Yeah. Um but so yeah, so what you're saying about the Hafez uh passage, there are so many gifts still unopened from your birthday. There are so many handcrafted presents, right? That have been sent to you by God. Um please forgive Hafez and the friend if we break into a sweet laughter when your heart complains of being thirsty, when ages ago every cell in your soul capsized forever into this infinite golden sea. So from that art, what was the feeling got that got evoked, and what phrase or passage or was it that really struck you?
SPEAKER_02Well, the the feeling was just one of uh kind of an peacefulness but also appreciation. And and and I think a sense of awe in the the tradition I grew up in, whether I learned it well or learned it poorly, the what I uh uh took in was that um there wasn't this happy God that had given gifts, um, and that was you know waiting for me to open up these gifts of who I was, or it was really more of uh whether I was taught it or I just assumed it was more the sense of there's something wrong with you. And uh we need to we need to get to work on that. And so it and and believe me, there was plenty wrong and it didn't need a lot of work, but that's a totally different shift in terms of theology for me years ago encountering things like this and beginning to see how that fit into the worldview and the theology that I grew up in. And it wasn't a harsh the it wasn't a harsh place. I have very good memories of growing up in a church. Uh very, very, very few negative memories, but still what I absorbed by osmosis, I think, right or wrong, uh correct or incorrect, healthy or unhealthy, was the sense that um this wasn't going to be an exciting life of unwrapping the gifts of my creation. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so it was that what Hafez is saying is that you're whole, not broken. Yeah. Whereas in church, you were broken, not whole.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the whole idea of original goodness versus original sin, so to speak.
SPEAKER_00And so that reading it led you to feel more at peace, and you don't have to really struggle now, if you will, to be more than who you are.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was uh it was a a more exciting, hopefully the journey I've been on for the last decade or so. This this was just kind of another uh reaffirming of that, if you will. And um the the other Hafez poem that had really touched me years ago was uh tripping over joy and the whole idea that he would say, Oh, you think you still it's like a chess game with a divine, and you still think you got a thousand moves and you don't. Just surrender, just surrender, just surrender.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I love it. Yeah, so I have to comment here. I love this passage, and I know we'll we'll talk about all of them. Um it's that sense, there's the other feeling that I get, and it's one of the prompts in the in the book, is you you you said optimistic or joyful, you're kind of implying that there's more positivity, there's more light than darkness, right? You know, in this. And the the the feeling that I get is this feeling of delight. Yes, yeah. It's there's a delightfulness to things, right? Which is another part of the treasure, right? Every treasure, there's always you're delighting in the fact that you're here. And what I love about this is that every cell in your soul capsized forever into this infinite golden sea, and yet here you are complaining about about the tasks ahead of you. So real. And it's like when Christy was talking a few weeks ago about the display, you know, the display of all these treasures and all these stones you're stumbling over. And so I just want to say that the C in because I I just have to do this because it's such a great opportunity. So intimacy, intimacy, right? In recovery from codependence, being a grateful Al-Anon, there's that whole idea of intimacy being into me, see. You know, I take care of myself, you're gonna do your thing, not my circus, not my monkey. I get it, but I gotta do what I have to do so I can be whole, right?
SPEAKER_02You know, there's the additional one, Joel, uh, of into me, you see.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. But that's but this one, I got that. And there's also into in time mate see, right? There's a number of different plays on it, but the one here, the one here is into my sea. Yeah. Which is the sea of treasures, the the the cells that have uh capsized forever into this infinite golden sea. So it's that intimacy with the divine, intimacy with God, intimacy with the transcendent, right? And that's there's a there's a quickening, there's a delight, right, that comes from from that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think I think a lot of us have a hard time with it because we are taught from birth to look outside of ourselves. Even I remember, you know, in church, it was always embracing or looking for some outside of me and accepting it inside of me. And this goes along with presence because in order to be presence, I have to embrace the moment, not all the moments outside of me, not the past, not the future, but this moment and realizing that oh, I get it. I didn't need to seek outside of me because everything I have is in me. I just needed to embrace what was already there. And and except for it being right there, that it was because it's it that love was never separate. And we're always taught the separation. And we teach time as the separation as past and future. And and and it, you know, um our we've heard, you know, it's that that's that duality. But the oneness, the oneness is the gift, the oneness is the presence, the oneness is the understanding that it's here now, it's this moment of now. I'm everything I'll ever be right in this moment of now. If I just be present to the be, the the the I, the M inside of me, and then I can come through that, and I I can, you know, and that's we, you know, as Ronnie had talked, you know, before about being in this moment of awe. That's that moment of awe is is I'm being fully in the moment who I naturally am, and I'm coming from that. I'm not separated, there's no separation of who I am, this essence of me, and the humanity I am kind of coming from the essence, and I can only do that when I'm present.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's that in the the Course in Miracles, there's that that uh quote, uh now has no meaning to the ego.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that that stuck out as well. Like that, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the ego can only exist in the past or the future.
SPEAKER_01Wow that separates us from God, yeah. You know, ego edging God out, and that separation, you know, that's where it separates us from our present moment is because we're we're so worried and watching all these things outside of us, you know.
SPEAKER_02And there's a great there's a great Zen story to illustrate that. I think it just came to mind. I wouldn't tell the whole story, but the whole idea is this man's being visited by these ghosts that are scaring him away from a new relationship. And finally uh he gets some advice and says, next time it appears, just tell him to tell the ghost to tell you how many uh beans are in the bowl on the dining room table. And the whole idea is it can't, it's because it's not present. Oh it's past. Oh, yeah, future.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. That took me a minute, but I'm with you. Yeah, it took me a minute too.
SPEAKER_02But it really, it really is demonstrative of what all these voices that we have, whether you call it the inner critic, the superego, the whatever, there's this stuff coming at us that is is uh trying to draw us into the past or into the future. And um the ego can only exist in the it can't exist in the present.
SPEAKER_00So how does you want to make a comment here about go ahead, uh Ronnie, do you want to say well yeah, I I thought about threshold and ego.
SPEAKER_03Like how do those coexist? Because they sound like they're on the same family tree.
SPEAKER_02Hmm.
SPEAKER_03Same word. Ask again. So so in in our prior talk about the threshold, the threshold serving as that separation between how we once were and what we're striving to be. Where does ego, how does ego like exist in the space of threshold?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's the point of it, is that the ego stands on the threshold, right? Yeah. But but so does the new self. Yeah. So that's the thing. You have to jump, you, you, you have to jump into the sea. You have to jump into the moment. So it's it's that place where the ego holds back. Ah, yeah, I need to leave, I I gotta stay with what's comfortable, right?
SPEAKER_02You know, right. It's the I mean the ego gets a bad rap, but it's a necessary component of our of our makeup. It's just when the ego is in charge rather than the soul, or as Christy's the essence qualities, then that's where we're not very present, we're not being our full self. Is that when the ego and maybe the threshold, Ronnie, to answer your question, is really beginning to not destroy the ego, that's impossible, but to actually uh refine it or it becomes more submission, it's more in submission to our soul qualities. That's what you've said.
SPEAKER_00There's a there's so much here. I don't I want to come back though. Sorry, Joel. I was about to take us so Ronnie and Christy, was there a because our gate did was there a passage that resonated with you guys in terms of the exercise that you want to share, or was there anything that stood out for either of you from all the different readings? Doesn't have to be. I just wondered if you had anything that came out. No, I I didn't.
SPEAKER_01I guess, you know, I'm I was wrong. I didn't either. I think of course, you know, when I read something, I I I'm a study or a thinker, and I have to like view it from multiple different okay, what about this? You know, it's like I have to try it on. I don't know how to, you know, you have to try it on and embody it and it's like maybe this way, you know, and maybe this way.
SPEAKER_00For once, for once I did my homework. So, so I'm gonna go here then. Um, and boy, we gave you so much time to I know, didn't we?
SPEAKER_02Really? I sound like a woman now, don't I?
SPEAKER_03Some art, I guess. Now to get it again.
SPEAKER_02Now that I did the now that I did the work. I get to be uh hypercritical of you people. No judgment.
SPEAKER_03Oh crap. That's right. Thank you, Joel. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00So I'm gonna go back then because I will say I am a fan of um of I mean of all of these, right? The all of these, you know. But the course in miracles, there's an there's a key idea in the course called the holy instant, the holy now. It is such a powerful uh tool if you're toing the course. And I want to read this one line, the holy instant, which is what we're talking about. That the moment you move that your to your toe leaves that threshold, Ronnie, right? You're now in the holy instant. You're in the gap, you're you've entered. The holy instant is a miniature of eternity. The holy instant is a miniature of eternity. It is a picture of timelessness set in a frame of time. The whole of heaven, and that's the key word, the whole of heaven lies in this instant, borrowed from eternity and set in time for you. To me, that's another powerful, powerful reminder of this feeling of again to me, it's just the longing of coming home, of arriving, of transcendence. So the purpose of these this contemplation exercise whether you did your homework or not, for those of you who are out there listening and who have done the homework, is to use these passages as a way to come back to that essential being, that soulful self, right? And to recognize that these come from every religion, from every spiritual path. There is a quote, there is a message about this sense of timelessness and how time is a gift. Both of those are there. Hello again, listeners and time weavers. Thanks for listening. Again, please visit us at presencequest.life, www.presencequest.life, and check out our books, merchandise, other podcast episodes, and our Facebook group. Also, please help us on Patreon at www.patreon p-at-r-e-on.com forward slash presencequest. Your donation there helps us pay for editing and production costs, and also allows us to offer discounts on upcoming workshops. Appreciate anything you can do to help. Thanks again. Enjoy.
SPEAKER_02Now has no meaning to the ego, really stuck out to me as well. And then the whole of heaven lies in this instant barred from eternity and set in time for you. Those I'm really resonating on those. It goes back to what we were talking about for. And even in the tradition I come from, the worn out use of the term I am, you know, uh for Yahweh, for God that I am, I always have been, always will be, from everlasting to everlasting, but I am. Even that brings back to the sense of God wanting us to be in the present.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that it's that line, you know, the beloved does not mind repeating, everything I have is also yours. Yes. Everything I have is also yours.
SPEAKER_02And I I think I tended to again, I don't think anybody sat me down and intentionally taught me this, but I think that I unconsciously lived most of my life with uh a scarcity philosophy rather than a philosophy of abundance. And what you just described is a philosophy of abundance. But I think most of the time when I've been unconscious, I just without knowing it, lived based on uh the dynamic of scarcity, which is drives you, makes you fearful, greedy, however you want to look at it. And uh I think adapting over time, learning and beginning to believe that I live in a world of abundance rather than scarcity has been a big paradigm shift for me. And it's one I I think I'm still playing with, honestly.
SPEAKER_00Well, you talked about it when you were when you did the when you shared about the previous exercise, that you know, feeling of having to get things done, of having to accomplish, of having to be somebody, of having to, you know, be the leader, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I call it the not enoughness. Not enough time. enough I don't have enough money I don't have enough food I don't have it's the enoughness which is like you said is is fear and to me the opposite of love is fear and when we come from fear which you know um I I was um it's been years ago now I was listening to something that talked about how life went from this abundance and then we began to teach fear and guilt more so we we went into a generations um of fear and guilt based generations and we've come out of that and that's that not enoughness you know and I think that just shows you how you know as as life evolves or as the world evolves and consciousness evolves it it goes through these waves and you go through this one wave and then we start to wake up going oh and then we start to shake that up and we become very conscious and then somebody you know then something else comes in that wave comes again and I think we're in that wave now of of there is something more the millennials are like there's more to this there's more to this there's there is and and that's why they're the the you know um statistically they are the uh biggest self-development people they buy the most they indulge the most in self-development you know and because they were like okay my parents they thought they had they're trying to figure it out but there's something more to this so they're coming out of we were the not enoughness and they're like oh there's more yeah and I it's it's a very strong paradigm it's a very strong hold to to to to gravitate from and when you're present there's neither nor there's this it's just one and it's peaceful.
SPEAKER_02Well you you know based to piggyback on what you're saying I'm wondering um to me it seems like the older I get the more that each human being but then cultures as well struggle with and internally um with the tension between uh the old and the new um and uh Gurdjieff talked a lot about that I think Joel you even alluded to it a couple of times back with a householder and uh in the Christian tradition it's not a parable of Jesus that we talk about very much and I think Gurdjieff got some of it from there but in in Matthew 13 that series of parab but there is this whole idea of the householder and the idea of of bringing treasures out from the old and the new and putting them together that in the future he seemed to say a really good scribe is going to be able to do that. And I what I think I see is that's always been an internal tension with individuals of the con what to conserve and what's liberal and progressive to bring together right and we're seeing it in spades right now I think it's always been a tension in an individual which means it's a tension within a family and a culture and so um this struggle to figure out millennials or however you want to describe it as of what should be brought forward to include and transcend that shouldn't be let go of but how do we let go of what needs to be let go of in its time and then pick up the new and not be afraid. So often what you get is these corrections and overcorrections and undercorrections to previous overcorrections and we yeah I agree.
SPEAKER_01Which you know makes um you know just like a quest for presence um also unique because we're all you know essentially it's all a quest you know to trying to figure out but the one thing that is always and always will be is the present moment. It's just about acknowledging we we very rarely acknowledge this very essence of the moment.
SPEAKER_02I have to stop being an acknowledgement I have to come back because you know being the uh the professor the uh the adult in the room yeah the adult in the room you know now that you guys didn't do your homework I'm not gonna so I did my homework yo from the thank you from the Quran that's all I get what would you like well uh my whole life I've not done my homework and and trying to get be the center of attention and now I did it and I'm not getting enough attention.
SPEAKER_00So okay never never go ahead actually the whole reason I'm willing to stay on this podcast is because of you art okay that's enough wow whoa no that was terrible yeah no I most seriously though it's it's this idea that when truthfully when people are I come from this tradition of working with text right let's just let me just say that you know many study groups Bible study um you know using these workbooks where you have to read a passage and then journal on it and things like that. So that's where when someone does that it does inspire me. You know I'm saying it from that place not to make anybody you know feel bad. It's really the truth. And so but something that Christy said and that you then responded to art with regard to the old and the new the conservative and the liberal the millennials and the people who are older I want to come back to this point of the present and the the quote that's in here from the Quran which says I swear by the time the evening tide and we've talked about the evening tide before I swear by the evening tide that everyone is in a state of loss except those who believe and do good and this is the key word join together in truth patience and constancy and so the whole the whole idea of this work is whether you're a millennial I mean we had the other night we had a high school student in our course and along with a 60 and an 80 year old and this idea of coming together to no matter what your age and it's the beautiful thing when people from different age groups do come together I think what this passage is telling me and to kind of bring together the two comments that both Christy you made and Art made is that it doesn't matter whether you're a millennial it doesn't matter whether you're a senior it doesn't matter whether you're Christian or Buddhist what matters is coming together and what what Muhammad's saying here is that unless you come together it's all just gonna go away it's all just it's all just entropy it's all just falling apart. And so that's why we're here and that I know Christy believes and loves this fact of the community right the community the earth at the center of the logo right and we're not talking about creating a church we're not talking about a cult right I mean it's the it's the original idea of congregation it's the the original idea of whenever two or more of you are gathered in my name right yeah and and so what what that speaks to if you can peel away dogma if you can peel away tradition if you can peel away the notion of an edifice of the temple or an edifice of a synagogue or a church if you peel all of that away what I understand this passage to say is that by joining together we really fully now understand what it means to be present hello again listeners and time weavers thanks for listening again please visit us at presencequest.life www dot presencequest dot life and check out our books merchandise other podcast episodes and our Facebook group also please help us on Patreon at www.patreon p-at r eon.com forward slash presencequest your donation there helps us pay for editing and production costs and also allows us to offer discounts on upcoming workshops appreciate anything you can do to help thanks again enjoy